Offshore Bassin ?? 2024
bulletboy3286 reply :
This topic is something id like to learn a little better, feel free to throw anything at this or share your advice
travis23 reply :
I have a question. How far will a bass travel from the shoreline to deep water? Say you're on a huge lake, can or will bass post up smack dab in the middle if the structure and food are to their liking? Also could they cross a big lake?
flyingmonkie reply :
Absolutely they COULD… I think it's more a question of whether or not they would WANT to. If you have a comfy spot with nearby food, why would you want to leave (other than to reproduce)? A bass has simple instincts - as we all do - find food, shelter, and booty. In some lakes, these instincts might be met locally, while in others, fish might have to migrate.
There was a study done at my hometown lake several years ago. They marked all the fish that were released after weekly tournaments, and then tracked when/where they were re-caught. Most fish were caught within a short distance of the release zone (within a mile or so), but some were caught as far away as 7 miles. http://www.seafwa.org/resource/dynamic/private/PDF/GILLILAND-144-149.pdf
In regards to the original post about offshore fishing. What are you curious about / where are you at now? Wanting to know what it is, how to improve? Do you have a specific offshore structure or technique in mind?
vern a reply :
Definitely a weak part of my fishing. Feel very comfortable beating the banks, but locating, or predicting that the bass will be deep is totally new to me.
motodmast reply :
I taget a Ton of off shore smallmouth, that is about 90% of the fishing i do.
ill talk smallmouth here, others can fill you in on Largemouth
1. when targeting a SM bass offshore, there are 2 main things i look for, points and ridges/humps
-Point, is where a point in a lake continues under water and there is deep water on both sides, Sm love to hang on the sides of these points, specifically on gravel or sand areas. also if you notice a stump or downed log, or a small seedbed, that is a big bonus!
-Ridge/hump is usually located on a flat or it can actually be anywhere but it where the bottom is flat and all of a sudden it rises up. On a lake i fish a ton, there is a underwater hump that is about 100ft long by about 25ft wide. it is in about 55-60ft of water and the top of the hum is about 30ft deep. big SM hang all around it, and i can spend a day going back and forth on it picking up 15-30 bass mostly 2-3LB but a few pigs in there every once in a while
Once it hits July around here ( i live in WA, spawn is later here than rest of country) almost all the bass in this lake move offshore, its really hard to find anything other than dinks around docks and shore.
LM can be found offshore, same locations as SM, but LM tend to like Muddy flats with Stumps and wood nearby, at least around here they do.
look at this picture for reference, this is a really clear water lake i fish and the dark areas are deep water and the green areas are shallower (10-25)
Brandon K. reply :
I'll check my maps of Tappan and Seneca and get back to you on that. I know they aren't very deep. As far as the Ohio is concerned, your best bet is to fish the drop in that 9-10 FOW range. Those smallies will sit there and wait to ambush prey coming by. Around the damns you can find some deep boulders for current breaks and hit those with tubes or heavy spinner baits.
tbone1993 reply :
On 1/31/2014 at 9:23 AM, bulletboy3286 said:This topic is something id like to learn a little better, feel free to throw anything at this or share your advice
first off I suck at offshore bass fishing. What I did learn is that it all relies on your ability to interpret a map or sonar. If you can find the humps or ledges you can find the fish.
Smokinal reply :
I am addicted to fishing offshore. I rarely, very rarely, fish a bank anymore. Offshore just offers so much more than a bank. Everyone can see the same things on a bank but not so offshore. First off, you need decent electronics with gps. I've tried the old "Ok, line up with the camp with the red door, that big rock and that huge pine with the broken limb"...it don't work. You just can't find that VW size spot again without gps. Second, I have found that deeper, offshore fish seem less affected by pressure changes than shallower, shoreline fish. When the bite slows down on a bank, I can go to humps and continue whackin em. It just seems easier to find biting fish on humps than down a shoreline.
Mainebass1984 reply :
I love fishing offshore structure. Fish located offshore see far less pressure then fish that are relatively shallow. I have my best luck offshore in the early early spring, mid summer and late fall. My favorite structure to fish is isolated offshore structure. A single log or a 5 by 5 foot section of weeds. If you are lucky enough to find isolated offshore structure there is a good chance that there will be good quality fish there that seldom see lures. Fish can stack up in such spots too.
WRB reply :
Don't feel alone 90% or more of bass anglers never fish more than a casting distance from the shoreline.
This is so ingrained in bass anglers that few venture away from the shoreline.
We talk about pioneer bass anglers like Buck Perry who tried to educate bass anglers that a fishery lies over their shoulder on outside structure, most anglers still refuse to even look off shore for bass.
Tom
bulletboy3286 reply :
I know i beat the banks to death last year and it didnt do me a bit of good, i was so close so mant times on placing in events i half wonder could i have done better with offshoring. I know this year im going to be doing a lot of practicing with this technique, i have good electronics and the baits to do it. thanks for all the input men!
Smokinal reply :
Oh, a couple of tips I forgot earlier. You will need a couple of marker buoys. If I'm on a big hump or ridge, I'll throw one on top of it and typically fish the sides. If it's a smaller piece of structure, I'll throw it away from it just to use it as a reference point. Once you start using buoys, you will be shocked at how you float around and move off your structure without realizing it.
S Hovanec reply :
Other than in the spring, if I'm a half mile or less from the bank, I feel I'm too close! Smallies on Erie move in to 8-12' in the spring, but some chose to spawn in the 20'+ range too. Normally I'm 1 to 4 miles off shore. Good sonar, a few marker buoys and a good dropshot setup are all you need.
WRB reply :
With good GPS sonar units you don't need physical marker buoys, you mark fish and structure elements using way point markers/icons. Buoys are OK if you need a visual reference on the water.
Learn to read your sonar unit and maps, they are essential tools to fishing off shore structure. Back in the past we had to learn landmarks and triangulate to find structure with depth finders and mark spots with buoys to stay on them. Today you have good nav maps with way points, saves a lot of time hunting for isolated structure.
Tom
S Hovanec reply :
I don't care how good your GPS is, you're not gonna hold yourself on a boulder or mussel bed 4 miles off shore in 50' of water. Marker buoys are far superior where I fish. The GPS gets me to the location, but beyond that, it does nothing once I'm there.
Catt reply :
On 2/2/2014 at 10:04 PM, S Hovanec said:I don't care how good your GPS is, you're not gonna hold yourself on a boulder or mussel bed 4 miles off shore in 50' of water. Marker buoys are far superior where I fish. The GPS gets me to the location, but beyond that, it does nothing once I'm there.
That's it! 
BBD reply :
Here's the better question to this whole thread:
Have the majority of the offshore fish you guy's have caught been larger than the fish near the bank?
Catt reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 10:21 PM, BBD said:Here's the better question to this whole thread:
Have the majority of the offshore fish you guy's have caught been larger than the fish near the bank?
For every bass you catch near the bank there is 5 behind you waiting to be caught!
Offshore your quality & quantity will go up
BBD reply :
^ That doesn't answer my question, though. Care to answer my initial question based on your experience?
TxGator reply :
And dont be afraid to drop anchor.
G
Catt reply :
What part of "quaility & quaintity will go up" don't you understand?
Quaility: size
Quaintity: number
TxGator reply :
You might try reading the Toledo thread in the central section. There is a lot of information on this topic there. It might not be focus on the lakes you fish, but the principles should be the same.
G
BBD reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:06 PM, Catt said:What part of "quaility & quaintity will go up" don't you understand?
Quaility: size
Quaintity: number
When I ask a direct question, I expect a direct answer, not a quote that is left up to interpretation. I like to deal in absolutes as much as possible.
Is that clear enougu for you?
BassWhole! reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:05 PM, TxGator said:And dont be afraid to drop anchor.
G
It took LMB guys decades to figure out to use a fish finder to find fish and read bottom, and they just now now plunge a glorified stick into the mud to hold their boat in place. You really think they're going to be anchoring any time soon? What will we call the technique? "Stationary tethered presentation" (cause you know every technique needs a name right?) I'm not holding my breath, what's next? casting umbrellas?....Oh wait,....never mind... 
roadwarrior reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:29 PM, BBD said:When I ask a direct question, I expect a direct answer, not a quote that is left up to interpretation. I like to deal in absolutes as much as possible.
Is that clear enougu for you?
Deep breath please...
I think Catt's response was quite clear and your last response aggressive and uncalled for.
The Toledo Bay thread is a "must read" for anyone interested in fishing deep structure, not
just for that particular lake.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:34 PM, reason said:It took LMB guys decades to figure out to use a fish finder to find fish and read bottom, and they just now now plunge a glorified stick into the mud to hold their boat in place. You really think they're going to be anchoring any time soon? What will we call the technique? "Stationary tethered presentation" (cause you know every technique needs a name right?) I'm not holding my breath, what's next? casting umbrellas?....Oh wait,....never mind...
yeah but you aint power poleing in 25 fow out on a river ledge.
hence drop the anchor or buy a terrova. SPOT LOCK.
BassWhole! reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:43 PM, Brian Needham said:yeah but you aint power poleing in 25 fow out on a river ledge.
hence drop the anchor or buy a terrova. SPOT LOCK.
No, you're preaching to the choir. In the salt, 80-90% of what we do is at anchor. So it comes naturally. Even when I fish for LMB from a jon boat, I carry an anchor, and I'll drop in in as little as 4 to 6 feet if conditions warrant. Seeing fish on the machine 20-40 down, and stopping over them, and then catching them, just makes sense, I don't know why so many folks seem to have a phobia about getting away from the shoreline. Its really no different, with the exception that everything is underwater.
BBD reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 11:38 PM, roadwarrior said:Deep breath please...
I think Catt's response was quite clear and your last response aggressive and uncalled for.
The Toledo Bay thread is a "must read" for anyone interested in fishing deep structure, not
just for that particular lake.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
I don't think it was uncalled for at all.
Let me clarify this since some can't wrap their heads around this.
How many people viewing this thread have had personal eperience with fishing offshore structure? If you ha e the experience, would you say you catch more, bigger fish on average than if you were fishing closer to the shore? Has your biggest fish to date been caught out of deep, offshore water, or closer to a bank?
roadwarrior reply :
My biggest fish, both green and brown, have been caught offshore in +/- 15' of water.
As a more general reply, structure is key for smallmouth and cover combined with
structure for largemouth. On rivers the current trumps everything else.
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/14/2014 at 10:48 PM, Catt said:Offshore your quality & quantity will go up
I might be from Arkansas but I think the above quoted text answers the question of what you will catch offshore.
My personal best came off an underwater point that had a sharp drop to 12fow then to 18-20fowthe that spot was a couple hundred yards from the nearest bank.
I am new to offshore fishing too as I started last year .... seems like everytime I do, I catch one bigger than 4#
I hope this helps
TxGator reply :
Dude, Im thinking ya got something messed up. You asked:
On 5/14/2014 at 10:21 PM, BBD said:Here's the better question to this whole thread:
Have the majority of the offshore fish you guy's have caught been larger than the fish near the bank?
He answered:
On 5/14/2014 at 10:48 PM, Catt said:For every bass you catch near the bank there is 5 behind you waiting to be caught!
Offshore your quality & quantity will go up
You must not have understood his answer:
On 5/14/2014 at 10:55 PM, BBD said:^ That doesn't answer my question, though. Care to answer my initial question based on your experience?
He clarified further:
On 5/14/2014 at 11:06 PM, Catt said:What part of "quaility & quaintity will go up" don't you understand?
Quaility: size
Quaintity: number
You copped an attititude:
On 5/14/2014 at 11:29 PM, BBD said:When I ask a direct question, I expect a direct answer, not a quote that is left up to interpretation. I like to deal in absolutes as much as possible.
Is that clear enougu for you?
Catt was trying to help, and if you have read his posts you will start to understand that he knows what hes talking about. We are extremly lucky to have folks on here that are willing to share their knowledge and experience with us.
G
BBD reply :
Just so I'm clear, anything that Catt says should be taken as FACT? Is that what you're telling me?
Does everybody here with first-hand experience agree that you will catch more/bigger fish offshore as opposed to inshore?
roadwarrior reply :
Well, as a matter-of-fact, yes. Catt has DOCUMENTED accounts of every fishing trip he
has ever been on dating back to the mid 1970's. He shares his experience with members
on this forum without reservation. Not coincidently this wealth of knowledge matches almost
perfectly with some of our other most seasoned veterns. To name a few: RoLo, WRB, Big O,
Fish Chris and Dwight Hottle.
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 12:46 AM, BBD said:Does everybody here with first-hand experience agree that you will catch more/bigger fish offshore as opposed to inshore?
Catt, Roadwarrior, and myself have all answered that question.......and it is a BIG YES.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 12:14 AM, roadwarrior said:My biggest fish, both green and brown, have been caught offshore in +/- 15' of water.
As a more general reply, structure is key for smallmouth and cover combined with
structure for largemouth. On rivers the current trumps everything else.
As for current & smallmouth, I look for spots with current then target the breaks within the current. These spots are typically more productive than "frog water" in my experience. Do you agree?
roadwarrior reply :
Yes, absolutely. Slack water is for lazy geen fish!
roadwarrior reply :
WOW!
I just noticed Catt's Toledo Bend thread is up to 228 pages!
http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/41658-so-yall-want-to-learn-toledo-bend/page-228#entry1527156
Brian Needham reply :
with fish stedily moving out on the TN River chain......... I need to start re reading that thread to get squared away and brushed up!
roadwarrior reply :
Here's the deal or at least my thoughts:
You need to mark several way points, humps, drops and holes, especially those that
collect clam shells and debris (baitfish calls for IMMEDIATE attention!) Each spot may
hold fish at one time or another, but not necessarily when you are there. So, fish a spot
for 15 minutes or so and move to another, then another and then back to them all again.
Last summer we (two boats and four fishermen) caught 45 bass in about an hour and a
half, then they quit biting or moved away.
Brian Needham reply :
thats been my experience too, when I find something on my hummingbird I will make about 10 cast to what I think is the sweetspot.... if not bit by then, I will make a few random cast, no bites, then I move.
they are usually turned on or they arent, if they arent then you know it is a timing spot and I will check it later...... I am still waiting to pull up on a spot and catch 20+ pounds on 5 cast, I havent done that yet, but I still got at least a summers worth of idleing to do too.
roadwarrior reply :
Well, another observation is that they are either on or not. If it's on EVERY
fish is a candidate. On the otherhand, sometimes you will find a school suspending
and you can't buy a bite!
Todd2 reply :
Do you guys spend a lot of time on suspended fish that you mark? Or do you mainly look for fish on or near the bottom?
Catt reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 12:46 AM, BBD said:Just so I'm clear, anything that Catt says should be taken as FACT? Is that what you're telling me?
Does everybody here with first-hand experience agree that you will catch more/bigger fish offshore as opposed to inshore?
Catt
Rolo
WRB
Big O
Fish Chris
Dwight Hottie
Brain Needham
DVT
Raul
TxGator
That's 10 that say yes!
Can you understand that?
Am I always right?
Nope but I apparently got you beat!
WRB reply :
Don't want to get into a ticking contest about marker buoys vs GPS sonar way point icons, both work.
I used buoys for decades and still get 1 handy, just don't use it often anymore since I have upped my skill level using GPS markers and my sonar. Watch the Elites fish off shore on big bodies of water like Erie, no buoys!
Takes time to learn boat control in the wind and if a buoy helps you to keep on a small isolated spot, use them!
The biggest bass in deep structured lakes rarely move up into shallow shoreline water outside of the spawn and even then don't stay very long before moving back out into deeper water where they prefer to be.
Anglers are always amazed how many big bass they see during the spawn and never see or catch them the rest of the year. These big girls didn't go hide in the mud, they move off shore where there is sanctuary and abundant prey. At night some big bass move up near shore to feed, not necessarily shallow and one reason night can be great bass fishing.
Another misconception is all off shore water is deep, there are underwater structures that are not deep and tall trees in deeper water that the tops are not deep that hold big populations of bass that shore pounders never catch.
Tom
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 4:27 AM, Todd2 said:Do you guys spend a lot of time on suspended fish that you mark? Or do you mainly look for fish on or near the bottom?
no time spent on supspended fish unless I have to, meaning I cant find anything better.
looking for fish within a foot of the bottom, or bait or both..... what I mean is if the spot has all the ingredients I am going to fish it because even on sidescan and the best electronis not every fish will show up all the time.
Brian Needham reply :
bouy and GPS.... both work, both have their place.
GPS with the heading sensor does make it easy for me to line up on a spot, but I still like a buoy to see my relation point to what I am looking at.
jhoffman reply :
I definitely use both. Sometimes on the smaller lakes I can sorta get the idea by looking for three stationary objects to line up with on shore.
papajoe222 reply :
WRB mentioned Buck Perry who was crowned 'The father of structure fishing' by a local publication. HIs findings and teachings became both the reason and the methods I used for bass fishing. I was so taken by his findings that I, to this day, choose where to begin my search for fish based solely on an areas relation to structure (never to be confused with cover in my mind). Sadly, Buck rarely mentioned the importantce of forage and forage movements in his teachings, but often times that part of the equation is just as, if not more, important in determining fish location and movements.
Too bad the electronics we have available today weren't available forty years ago. Can you imagine how much more knowledge would be available to us today?
Catt reply :
In my years of teaching, coaching, mentoring anglers I've noticed it is easier for the angler to learn offshore fishing if they have a back ground in saltwater or they have fished the great lakes.
What Buck Perry taught us about offshore fishing saltwater & great lakes anglers already knew...structure.
In almost every body of there is a portion of the bass population that stays within a certain distance of the shore line. There is a certain portion of the population that stays offshore. And there is a portion of the population that moves between the two.
It is the opinion of many biologist & knowledgeable angles that the offshore portion of the population is the largest...I agree!
Brian Needham reply :
that is excellent Catt!
and it speaks to a loose theory I have been thinknig about as I progress my own fishing and offshore.
tell me where I am wrong
Speaking in rounded number here so everyone can follow
20% of the fish always stay shallow
20% of the fish always stay deep
which leaves 60% of the fish to move up in the spring then back out in the summer and winter..... so if this is true then at some point 80% of the fish are shallow up spawning
BUT, after the spawn that would also make 80% of the fish out deep, POST Spawn and through out the summer.
so knowing this, post spawn and summer why would any fisherman ever beat the banks if the name of the game was catching fish?
Todd2 reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 8:30 PM, Brian Needham said:20% of the fish always stay shallow
20% of the fish always stay deep
which leaves 60% of the fish to move up in the spring then back out in the summer and winter.....
Where are these numbers from? Are we talking deep water reservoirs? If 20% never come shallow, how do they spawn?
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 9:14 PM, Todd2 said:Where are these numbers from? Are we talking deep water reservoirs? If 20% never come shallow, how do they spawn?
reread the ENTIRE post.
who says every fish spawn every year?
and who says they all spawn in 2 fow?
not every fish spawns every year and some spawn deep.
if you read my entire post, you will see I said "speaking in round numbers so everyone can follow"
Todd2 reply :
I read the whole post...just curious where the numbers come from. Rounded or not. There are a lot of variables that I won't even pretend to know...forage base, ph, etc. I just do see how you can come up with any estimates like that without tracking studies. Studies I've seen suggest that bass move relatively shallow to feed at night and occasionally during the day; but spend most daylight hours suspended over deeper water.
WRB reply :
Off shore spawning occurs in big reservoirs bass can be creative when it comes to spawning sites.
The majority of bass behave what we call normal bass behavior, some do their own thing.
Fishing Clear lake several years ago I found a row of telephone poles about 2 miles off shore, some were above water others were underwater, the poles are about 30' tall. Bass were spawning on the flat tops of the underwater poles. DVL has a off shore hump (underwater island at full pool) that was 25' on the top and bass where spawning there, the water was crystal clear and you could see the beds!
Don't always assume you know all about bass behavior.
Tom
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/15/2014 at 8:30 PM, Brian Needham said:
and it speaks to a loose theory I have been thinknig about as I progress my own fishing and offshore.
tell me where I am wrong
Speaking in rounded number here so everyone can follow
I guess the bolded text is not in plain english like I thought it was.......
yes, they are made up, rounded numbers, as I thought I cleary stated.
BUT I will be surprised if the numbers are not close to accurate.......as I have heard many many experience offshore guys say if you are beating the banks you are only fishing for 10-20% of the fish.
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/16/2014 at 12:08 AM, Todd2 said:I read the whole post...just curious where the numbers come from. Rounded or not. There are a lot of variables that I won't even pretend to know...forage base, ph, etc. I just do see how you can come up with any estimates like that without tracking studies. Studies I've seen suggest that bass move relatively shallow to feed at night and occasionally during the day; but spend most daylight hours suspended over deeper water.
The bolded text explains why you are having issue understanding...... "relatively shallow" is a relative term.
this being if a fish LIVES in 20fow, then 12fow is SHALLOW......conversely if a fish LIVES in 3fow then 10 fow is DEEP.
CATT, WRB, and scores of others.... I have even found out for myself (reading those guys stuff) that most fish DO NOT live shallow.
more on my made up numbers.... some live deep and never see the bank..... some live shallow and never see the main channel... and MANY are somewhere in between.
WHere do I get "many are in between"?? because during the spawn there is a concenration of fish shallow... but after the spawn they aint there anymore, other than the resident fish, that LIVE there. so where do they go? they are migratory.
Hence:
Some LIVE shallow
Some LIVE deep
and others migrate.
the fish that live at the back North Saulty creek at guntersvile probably do not even know a river channel exsist..... and by the same token the ones the live on the river channel probably do not even know the back of North Saulty creek exsist.... but there are also many that live in the middle that move shallow to spawn and then move back out afterwards.
and that concentration is IMO, why Catt always has his boat in +/- 15FOW.
Catt. please correct me if I am wrong....... as my orginal question was posed to you, as yet somehow it turned into this, LOL
Catt reply :
Brain, I hate putting numbers because it is impossible to do.
However 100% move shallow during the spawn but this does not mean they move to the bank.
Offshore bass will spawn offshore!
I keep my boat in 15' of water plus or minus 3' (12-18') because this is depth most grass stops growing & where I start my search.
Humans are "visual", we prefer to see what we are fishing which is why most anglers fish the bank.
Brian Needham reply :
Got ya, thanks Catt!
I understand the numbers deal, understood.
Smokinal reply :
I agree with you Catt and Brian, both. One thing we need to remember is that "shallow" or "deep" is all relative to each body of water. Some lakes I fish are 25' max so I would bet that most of the bass move into 2-8 ft to spawn. Whereas, like WRB mentioned, he has seen beds in 25' on deeper, clear lakes. In a lake with max depth of 100-150' or more, 25' could be considered shallow. In some of my water where max is 25', shallow will be pretty darn skinny.
And one certainly can't say "well bass are programmed to go shallow to spawn" because I know of lakes that are only 10 minutes apart; one has max of 30' and the other has 160'. The bass in one lake don't know what the bass in the other are doing, it's all relative to their own environment.
Brian Needham reply :
On 5/16/2014 at 2:12 AM, Catt said:.
Humans are "visual", we prefer to see what we are fishing .
that's why I buy good map cards!
Catt reply :
Pro Tournament Anglers have mislead novice anglers into thinking bass fishing should be done at the fastest pace possible. They have told us we need a 7.0:1 gear ratio reels, then 8.0:1, & now I hear there is a 9.0:1!
They talk lures, lines, reels, rods, boats, down scan, side scan everything but basics.
Teaching basics is what has made the sight #1 on the world wide web!
If y'all really want to catch more bass & big bass slow down & get offshore!
WRB reply :
I was talking to Aaron Marttens last Nov and he said the biggest change fishing B.A.S.S. elite events was deep water being 20' in most of the lakes they fish. Out west 20' is aversge depth, not deep!
Tom
Brian Needham reply :
so true.......... I have really slowed down this year and I have more fish to show for it! and good uns too.
I have already caught more over 4# this year than I did all of last year, and it is all because I am SLOWING down and learning more offshore/structure everytime I launch my boat.
Catt reply :
When tournament fishing gained popularity in 70s we fished from safe light in the morning until dark thirty. From mid May until September that was 12-14 hrs a day, this allowed time to locate & fish deep structure.
Today's tournaments are still from safe light but only until 3 pm & from late January until May or maybe June.
This shorter day & tournaments being during pre-spawn to early summer does not allow enough time to fish offshore effectively.
Run & Gunning a shore line is easier & quicker than offshore structure fishing. As a result the entire industry has become all about "speed".
roadwarrior reply :
Question from cjam93:
Hey guys so I want to get out of only fishing what I can see above water. I have been doing some reading and I understand idling over humps and all to find a sweetspot to throw to. However I need some advice on how to start on my local lake. My problem is that there are no topo maps available for the lake I fish. So I cant really try to find structure from a map and then apply it on the lake. To give you an idea about hte lake, it is a reservoir, and I have seen water up to around 50 feet deep. However I have never caught fish, or heard of anyone else catching fish any deeper than around 20ft. Most of my summer fish last year coming off of 5xd's so around the 15ft range. The deeper water fish that I did catch were just from backing off the bank and still throwing in that direction, so I was not really using my electronics to target underwater cover.
So without a map to find structure, how would you go about fishing deep for largemouth? I was thinking just idle in the 10-20ft range until I find something that looks good on a point or just going down the bank until I see something, but that seems like it could take up quite a bit of time. Is there a more efficient way to go about it?
Catt reply :
Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!
If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.
USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.
BassWhole! reply :
On 5/16/2014 at 6:40 PM, Catt said:Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!
If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.
USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.
This ^.
It might not be a fishing map or chart, but the USGS and the ACOE document pretty much everything they do, or are thinking of doing. Also idling around and looking with the proper settings on the FF is time well spent. Don't go deep for deep's sake, look around, it could be 12 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, etc. Spend time on the water, and learn the body. There are no shortcuts.
BassWhole! reply :
On 5/16/2014 at 10:13 AM, WRB said:I was talking to Aaron Marttens last Nov and he said the biggest change fishing B.A.S.S. elite events was deep water being 20' in most of the lakes they fish. Out west 20' is aversge depth, not deep!
Tom
I love the way he starts a new thought before he finishes the previous one, he's such a dude...
cjam93 reply :
On 5/16/2014 at 6:40 PM, Catt said:Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!
If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.
USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.
On 5/16/2014 at 10:01 PM, reason said:This ^.
It might not be a fishing map or chart, but the USGS and the ACOE document pretty much everything they do, or are thinking of doing. Also idling around and looking with the proper settings on the FF is time well spent. Don't go deep for deep's sake, look around, it could be 12 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, etc. Spend time on the water, and learn the body. There are no shortcuts.
Sorry ,when I say there isnt one I mean of once it was flooded. I have found a few different ones online of th area before it was flooded however none of them state the actual boundaries of the lake, or have anything labeled on the map that would help narrow down exactly where the lake starts once you are looking at it if that makes sense.
One more quick question if you dont mind, when you say with the correct settings on the FF what all are you referring to? I have read the two things to really look for is sensitivity and scrolling speed, is there anything else that really matters? What do you suggest for the scrolling speed? thanks for the help guys I appreciate it!
WRB reply :
The run and gun tournament anglers only have to look at KVD for inspiration. Fishing slow and methodical like Aaron Martens also works within the same time period.
Like most bass anglers catching fish is my goal and a top water bite or a crankbait bite is fun fishing, deep structure with a drop rig can be boring. Catching bass is a lot more fun than casting lures and I catch more on deep structure than shoreline fishing.
One reason I like to make long casts with a jig or swimbait is too cover more deep structure without sitting on top of the bass, sometimes bass don't like boats overhead on clear water lakes. It's a lot easier to catch deep structure bass fishing vertical.
The only time my trolling motor moves my boat forward fast is to move 100 yards or so, otherwise it's keeping my boat positioned to make casts and stay on top of the structure and fish on the lowest setting under the prevailing conditions. You can't hurry up structure deep structure fishing.
Tom
Catt reply :
LOL
KVD has fished 5 tournaments on Toledo Bend & aint cracked the top 15!
WRB reply :
Cjam93,
Most topographic maps are in 5' elevation increments used for general survey, not a lot of detail but should get you started. Look up your lakes elevation at max pool and then a highlite marker and follow that elevation line around the lake perimeter. Draw a dark line where the dam is located, now you have a lake map.
If your lake is below the full pool elevation, take a different color marker and follow the current lake level.
Without any map you can visualize what may be underwater by observing the topography around the lake, it doesn't change because it's covered with water, except the trees may have been removed and any building, however foundations, road beds, bridges, etc are still there.
When the water warms the lake may stratify into thermo-layers, the top layer being where bass like to be because of higher levers of dissolved oxygen or DO. Where the first depth layer meets the next lower layer is called a thermocline and bass usually don't go much deeper, unless the reservoir is used to generate power by the dam. If your lake is small without topo maps, then it's probably not a power generation lake and develops a strong thermocline. You can search the site for how to set up your sonar to see a thermocline.
Your sonar become an essential tool when fishing deep structure.
I recommend Don Iovino's book "Finesse bass fishing and the sonar connection" for anyone who fishes deep structured lakes, it's dated but a valuable little reference book.
Tom
Paul Roberts reply :
Cham93,
It's possible the bass in your lake never go deeper than 20ft. The advice from many above that deep is relative is very true. Things that can keep bass shallower can be:
-water clarity (the more turbid the shallower the bass -even the majority of the food chain- tend to be)
-temperature (thermocline can limit bass depth, and is seasonal)
-predominate prey species can have bass away from or closer to shorelines.
-competing predators (big pike and muskie and even walleye are known to affect how deep bass may be in some lakes).
So... you may already be fishing the depths the majority of bass are in your lake. But to make full use of those areas you can’t see, regardless of the actual depths, will require as reason said: “time on the water learning the lake”.
As far as finding "offshore" structure:
In many smaller lakes especially, the "offshore structure" is often attached to the shoreline, or associated with that "attached" structure. Huge reservoirs and lakes by contrast, with large areas of changing topography across the lake’s breadth, can have a lot of structure not attached to the shorelines so directly.
There actually are “shortcuts” (but certainly involve time spent not casting) and that is using electronics –the best you can afford and find time to learn to use. The reason offshore bass were/are such a new phenomenon is that they are not something everyone is equipped (technologically and experientially) to find and decipher. Catt suggested that we are primarily visual creatures, and that it very true. That holds a lot of us back. But that's not lost on sonar manufacturers and sonar visual interfaces have come a long way since the old green box. (Actually I loved flashers, and paper, but use color lcd now –would love side/down scan.)
But vision is not our only useful sense. Buck Perry did it the hard way, by systematically using lures and tackle he devised that allowed him to strain depths incrementally. It took him a lot of time most of us can’t or won’t put to it. With sonar and knowledge available now, it’s whole new world.
cjam93 reply :
Thanks for all the replies guys! This site has helped me with a lot of the different questions I have had over the past few months. I really appreciate it!
RoLo reply :
On 5/17/2014 at 6:33 AM, Paul Roberts said:Cham93,
It's possible the bass in your lake never go deeper than 20ft. The advice from many above that deep is relative is very true. Things that can keep bass shallower can be:
-water clarity (the more turbid the shallower the bass -even the majority of the food chain- tend to be)
-temperature (thermocline can limit bass depth, and is seasonal)
-predominate prey species can have bass away from or closer to shorelines.
-competing predators (big pike and muskie and even walleye are known to affect how deep bass may be in some lakes).
So... you may already be fishing the depths the majority of bass are in your lake. But to make full use of those areas you can’t see, regardless of the actual depths, will require as reason said: “time on the water learning the lake”.
As far as finding "offshore" structure:
In many smaller lakes especially, the "offshore structure" is often attached to the shoreline, or associated with that "attached" structure. Huge reservoirs and lakes by contrast, with large areas of changing topography across the lake’s breadth, can have a lot of structure not attached to the shorelines so directly.
There actually are “shortcuts” (but certainly involve time spent not casting) and that is using electronics –the best you can afford and find time to learn to use. The reason offshore bass were/are such a new phenomenon is that they are not something everyone is equipped (technologically and experientially) to find and decipher. Catt suggested that we are primarily visual creatures, and that it very true. That holds a lot of us back. But that's not lost on sonar manufacturers and sonar visual interfaces have come a long way since the old green box. (Actually I loved flashers, and paper, but use color lcd now –would love side/down scan.)
But vision is not our only useful sense. Buck Perry did it the hard way, by systematically using lures and tackle he devised that allowed him to strain depths incrementally. It took him a lot of time most of us can’t or won’t put to it. With sonar and knowledge available now, it’s whole new world.
You'll notice that Paul did not give 'Deep Water' the key to the city.
Instead, he pointed out several factors that influence the depth of bass in given lakes and at given times.
Such as:
> Natural lakes versus artificial lakes (always start here)
> Clear lakes vs. murky lakes
> Estuarine prey vs. pelagic prey
> Lakes containing northern pike or muskellunge (dominant predators 'force' largemouth bass to adhere to the littoral zone)
> Depth of thermocline
> Last but not least: depth of "Oxycline"
In the summertime, the oxycline can 'force' bass to live close to the surface, a season when anglers expect bass to be deep.
Fishing only in deep water, or only in shallow water is fishing without versatility and adaptability.
In short, there is no free lunch.
Roger
FishinDaddy reply :
On 5/17/2014 at 8:01 PM, RoLo said:You'll notice that Paul did not give 'Deep Water' the key to the city.
Instead, he pointed out several factors that influence the depth of bass in given lakes and at given times.
Such as:
> Natural lakes versus artificial lakes (always start here)
> Clear lakes vs. murky lakes
> Estuarine prey vs. pelagic prey
> Lakes containing northern pike or muskellunge (dominant predators 'force' largemouth bass to adhere to the littoral zone)
> Depth of thermocline
> Last but not least: depth of "Oxycline"
In the summertime, the oxycline can 'force' bass to live close to the surface, a season when anglers expect bass to be deep.
Fishing only in deep water, or only in shallow water is fishing without versatility and adaptability.
In short, there is no free lunch.
Roger
Yep - "Deep" water for us is 8 feet. But that may be 100 yards or more offshore. Now that I have the electronics to easily find the offshore grass in Toho and Kissimmee, I am spending more and more time "out there", by myself, with a fluke.
To answer the original question. There are "probably" more and bigger fish offshore. They are ABSOLUTELY less pressured.
RoLo reply :
On 5/17/2014 at 8:55 PM, FishinDaddy said:Yep - "Deep" water for us is 8 feet. But that may be 100 yards or more offshore. Now that I have the electronics to easily find the offshore grass in Toho and Kissimmee, I am spending more and more time "out there", by myself, with a fluke.
To answer the original question. There are "probably" more and bigger fish offshore. They are ABSOLUTELY less pressured.
I'm sure you recall, about 3 years back KVD took 1st place in a Toho tourney by fishing a shallow hydrilla bed
about a half-mile offshore. Why did this come as a surprise to anyone, are anglers really that dense?
Do exactly what bass do, stay focused on Contour & Cover and pay NO attention to how near or far from the shoreline.
Roger
Catt reply :
Y'all better be coping this to microsoft word
Pz3 reply :
Contour and cover seem to be key factors. But Mike iconelli explains really well in his you tube videos about all of this.
Brian6428 reply :
This is my kinda thread! It doesn't make me feel like I need to go to BPS and drop $300 on tackle. Knowledge sounds like the most important thing here!
roadwarrior reply :
Some friends and I had our best day smallmouth fishing last weekend.
All the fish were caught on structure, in current near the river channel
in the middle of the Tennessee River.
tatertester reply :
Roadwarrier, curious how you found the smallies in the middle of the river?
Oregon Native reply :
On 5/22/2014 at 6:34 PM, roadwarrior said:Some friends and I had our best day smallmouth fishing last weekend.
All the fish were caught on structure, in current near the river channel
in the middle of the Tennessee River.
You would love the Columbia out west....yes you would
roadwarrior reply :
On 5/22/2014 at 8:18 PM, tatertester said:Roadwarrier, curious how you found the smallies in the middle of the river?
We targeted specific structure associated with the river channel.
Good electronics come in handy! A specific example was fishing
an old creek channel that empties into what is now the lake. This
serves as a "highway" for bass. We found a bend in the old stream
bed where we caught a dozen or so on that particular spot.
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