Help Me Understand This Structure.... 2024
B@ssCrzy reply :
The lake I fish is a reservoir with slightly stained water, no weeds, some rocks and stumps, and deepest part is about 40 ft. Tell me if I am reading this correctly. I am assuming that the main point is what I have highlighted with the yellow arc, and the secondary points are what I have highlighted with red. Is this correct? (trying to learn proper terminology) I am thinking that on the main point where it comes up to a hump at about 20 ft. this would be a good spot to try and locate fish during the summer and possibly winter? Working a jig, texas rig, or drop shot on top of the hump and around the sides. Then was thinking that during the spring (pre-spawn, spawn, and post-spawn) fish the contour edge from the secondary points along the drop and maybe even up on the "flat" with jigs, carolina rig, crankbait, texas rig, etc. Just trying to fish some stuff away from the bank....so please help me out!! Any thoughts would be appreciated.
slonezp reply :
When I think of main points, they are the ones located in the main channel. Secondary points would be those located in creeks. What I would do in addition to what you say, is not only sit shallow and cast deep, but also sit deep and cast shallow. Especially change it up when wind is involved. The bait moving one direction might trigger fish better than it moving the other direction.
tbone1993 reply :
Watch this video. Without seeing your entire map I cant accurately point to the points. Those tight contour lines mean drop offs are in that area. ***http://*.com/understand-lake-maps/
B@ssCrzy reply :
On 2/1/2014 at 12:34 AM, tbone1993 said:Watch this video. Without seeing your entire map I cant accurately point to the points. Those tight contour lines mean drop offs are in that area.
No video posted....
daiwaguy reply :
Do you have a shot of the entire lake? Looks like a good climb from deep water to a nice flat/ledge before coming back up to the shallow flat.
Nice_Bass reply :
Main lake point- off main lake channel- secondary points off feeder creeks.
Personally I imagine your "yellow" area to be rather flat and lifeless but could have some additional structure I don't see on the map. The better point that I actually to see would be the "point" at the top of your map in red. It has better depth change and butts up against a channel swing. I would actually prefer to fish that, but most likely would take a look at your area in yellow. To me, that does not look like a good spawning area but would still have fish year round in various transitions. Spawn area I would look for protected flat areas close to deeper structure, and would fish that deeper structure pre/post spawn.
What reservoir?
WRB reply :
Without knowing where the point you posted is located in reference to the main lake basin or large creek arm it's not possible to determine what this point is. The whole underwater area you posted is one point. The areas above the red marks are small flats located on one point, the yellow area is near the end of the point. The small flat zones with wider spaced lines are where most bass will be located next to deep drop offs, depending on the depth the bass are located.
Good looking point.
Tom
B@ssCrzy reply :
On 2/1/2014 at 1:26 AM, Nice_Bass said:Main lake point- off main lake channel- secondary points off feeder creeks.
This makes sense....thanks for the clarification...
On 2/1/2014 at 2:54 AM, WRB said:Without knowing where the point you posted is located in reference to the main lake basin or large creek arm it's not possible to determine what this point is.
The point is actually out in the main part of the lake.
Thanks everyone for your input. Really appreciate it.
quanjig reply :
I would be loving me some football jig on that in the summer boy!!!!
WRB reply :
Fish this point during winter, pre spawn,summer and fall.
If this point was located inside a bay or creek arm it would good during late pre spawn and post spawn.
If this point was located inside a creek arm where it divided the arm into two more arms it would be a primary secondary point and excellent pre spawn, post spawn and summer location.
Good luck.
Tom
Catt reply :
The yellow area at 20' is a hump, then a valley between the red areas, towards the top of the pucture is a channel. I would positon my boat on top & cast towards the channel.
Lure choice could be just about anything depending on cover.
BassWhole! reply :
"nomenclature is the haven of the incapable" The whole primary/secondary thing is relative to each other, in some cases there will be 2 or more points, (and sometimes only one), usually moving inshore, or further into a creek or cove. Don't worry about that. The fish will be somewhere. Find them with the electronics, and then go to town. If you are into "patterns" (I'm not) if fish are relating to a certain structure in respect to the steepness of the structure (lines close together) you should be able to find some in similar bottom. If you follow your upper red mark to the right to where it meets the 7 ft mark, I'd bet you'll find some there most of the time. Its not unlike shallow cover, look for areas that are different than the surrounding water, sometimes, just a slight difference will be the ticket.
tbone1993 reply :
On 2/1/2014 at 3:03 AM, B@ssCrzy said:This makes sense....thanks for the clarification...
The point is actually out in the main part of the lake.
Thanks everyone for your input. Really appreciate it.
http://*.com/understand-lake-maps/ here you go
B@ssCrzy reply :
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Great video. Thanks.
mjseverson24 reply :
Being from the north and not really fishing any of the southern reservoirs and not using the southern terminology for structure I would say that on this picture you have 2 primary points, the two that are highlighted in red. I say these are primary because they are a part of the first break lines coming from the shore. The yellow highlighted region I would consider to be the secondary point as it is a part of the secondary break line system going from 20' on top and falling to 30+ ft on the bottom. I would assume that most from the southern and or reservoir country would disagree with my terminology on this, as it has nothing to do with main channels and or feeder creeks. that being said up north we use similar terminology and phraseology to describe different situations.
Mitch
Catt reply :
Seriously!
That's one point with the yellow being the end
The depth on top of the yellow 20', drops down towards the red & towards the channel. That makes it a hump on top of a point.
The reds areas are not points but simply "bulges"
The first break line from the shore is located at 1'
That aint southern talk, that's structure 101 
WRB reply :
This is a good point to look at and Catt pointed out the hump, although a 1foot high spot on a point in deep structured lake is marginal it's still important. The point ridge between the high spot narrows down to a saddle 1 foot lower, agian not a big change in depth but the narrowing shape creates a funnel zone for bass to feed on boat fish when wind is pushing plankton over that point. Saddles are important structure elements and the hump is important isolated feature of this point. Can't see what is available in the lower inside corner of this point, but it looks good.
Good luck with your structure fishing.
Tom
tatertester reply :
The right ends of the yellow and upper red line and the bottom red line end is where I would look closely. Bass should be moving deep to shallow and back again near those rises and drops in depth.
Catt reply :
Look at the hump & then towards the channel (the lines in blue), that a 10' drop in a short distance.
Some people look at structure from the bank outwards, ya should be looking from the channel towards the bank.
What is not known is the lake level, what is the normal level?
Y'all need to look at a 1 dimensional picture & convert it to a 3 dimensional picture in your brain.
Todd2 reply :
On 2/2/2014 at 3:29 AM, Catt said:Y'all need to look at a 1 dimensional picture & convert it to a 3 dimensional picture in your brain.
That is the key. I keep 3 marker buoys in the boat, I'd drop one on the hump, another on the steep drop to the channel (about where the top red lines are). That helps me with the layout. How I work it would depend on the situation but Id be dragging a C-Rig and jig through there for sure. Don't forget those inside corners of the visible part of the point too.
B@ssCrzy reply :
Wow...thanks everyone for their input. I am going to give it a try this spring and summer.
On 2/2/2014 at 3:29 AM, Catt said:What is not known is the lake level, what is the normal level?
Normally in the spring lake is at "full pool," but then if there is normal rain will drop around 6 ft over the summer. Typically does not fluctuate much more than that if there is the normal amount of rain.
Hooligan reply :
On 2/1/2014 at 12:13 AM, B@ssCrzy said:
Point Pic.jpg
The lake I fish is a reservoir with slightly stained water, no weeds, some rocks and stumps, and deepest part is about 40 ft. Tell me if I am reading this correctly. I am assuming that the main point is what I have highlighted with the yellow arc, and the secondary points are what I have highlighted with red. Is this correct? (trying to learn proper terminology) I am thinking that on the main point where it comes up to a hump at about 20 ft. this would be a good spot to try and locate fish during the summer and possibly winter? Working a jig, texas rig, or drop shot on top of the hump and around the sides. Then was thinking that during the spring (pre-spawn, spawn, and post-spawn) fish the contour edge from the secondary points along the drop and maybe even up on the "flat" with jigs, carolina rig, crankbait, texas rig, etc. Just trying to fish some stuff away from the bank....so please help me out!! Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Point Pic.jpgNo. You haven't got a primary and secondary there. Primary point is the first point off the main lake, nearest a creek channel usually. Secondary points come after that- there's no further delineation on it.
The primary could be the one highlighted in yellow, but without seeing exactly how it is laid out in relation to the rest of the lake, it's tough to tell. The red portions are not points, they create a bit of a hump, but are really just part of the point. They are transitions on the point, which, when I break it down to fish, I would pay particular attention to.
Where I would look for fish on that are much like Catt pointed out. The second thing I would look at is where those contour lines are the tightest- any time they get tight like that, they are transition zones. After that, I would be on the tail of the point paralleling the structure up to the channel swing. I wouldn't focus on the point so much, here, as it isn't typically what I am looking for in a point for holding water at various times of the year.
Generally, in fishing a point, I'm looking for a longer, flatter structure with fairly steady sharp contours on the sides. I want them to be shallower prespawn, and generally deeper post spawn and in fall.
In general, find your tightest contours and you find transitions. Eliminate water by feeling the bottom content and you're off to the races.
Catt reply :
The first thing I want to know when reading a topographical map is what Full Pool is and then what is the actual lake level.
Example Toledo Bend 02/03/14 @ 6:00 AM
Full Pool is 172 msl (Mean Sea Level) or 172' above sea level
The actual lake level is 168.83 msl or 3.17' lower
That 20' hump is now at 16.83' msl, not a major deal
But what if the bass are shallow, say 10' or less and you take away over 3' in depth, now you have to change your entire game plan.
Look at your map now, every thing 3' or less is dry ground!
Hooligan reply :
On 2/3/2014 at 10:03 PM, Catt said:The first thing I want to know when reading a topographical map is what Full Pool is and then what is the actual lake level.
Example Toledo Bend 02/03/14 @ 6:00 AM
Full Pool is 172 msl (Mean Sea Level) or 172' above sea level
The actual lake level is 168.83 msl or 3.17' lower
That 20' hump is now at 16.83' msl, not a major deal
But what if the bass are shallow, say 10' or less and you take away over 3' in depth, now you have to change your entire game plan.
Look at your map now, every thing 3' or less is dry ground!
Agree 100%. In newer units, the ability to adjust depths based on current lake levels is essential. Couldn't agree more with that, Catt.
Fish Murderer 71 reply :
lets see if this worked
remember this is just my opinion, others may view it differently based on their experience...
Nice_Bass reply :
Pool level and current generation schedules.
Two things I find most folks forget about when looking at reservoir topo maps, yet two absolutely critical elements.
Catt reply :
Fish, ya close!
From the yellow marked "summer" back to & including the areas marked "this is a point" is the entire point.
The yellow area marked "summer" would be good summer, fall, & winter.
Fish Murderer 71 reply :
On 2/4/2014 at 6:03 AM, Catt said:Fish, ya close!
From the yellow marked "summer" back to & including the areas marked "this is a point" is the entire point.
The yellow area marked "summer" would be good summer, fall, & winter.
I marked the dry land as the point cause its all just 1d to 3d... just to indicate that there is no secondary points in this map.
WRB reply :
The whole point could be a secondary point or a mian lake point depending where it is located. Based on the depth elevation, no distance scale, this appears to be a small area not nore than a long casting distance fron the deepest area to dry land.
I evauate this type of structure without water, adding the water level as it only predicts where the bass maybe located during the seasonal periods.
Tom
Todd2 reply :
I have seen at least one tv guy with a big orange hat with T call these secondary points off the main point. So don't get caught up in the terminology. The bass don't care. Recognize it as good structure. If you find cover on it..it just became a little better.
Catt reply :
To define this point as "main lake", "primary", or "secondary" is nothing more than speculation without seeing the rest of the map.
Since there are no longitude or latitude lines, giving distances is a wild azz guess.
Given the coloration used it is safe to say the two lines marked in purple is a river/creek channel.
This is a very deceptive portion of a map for the average angler to decipher. If one looks at the bottom right corner there is water on that side as well leading me to think it maybe a peninsula.
So are we ever going to see the rest of the map?
BassWhole! reply :
LMB guys love to complicate things. Why are we guessing? The truth is they could be anywhere. You've spent all this $ on fancy FFs, run around for 30 minutes (or more) zig zagging along, mark the place(s) you see fish, and then go catch them. Its how its always been done in the salt. Or are we waiting for one of the pros to name the "technique".
RoLo reply :
I believe anglers place too much emphasis on 'major points'.
In the 1st place, major points can be pinpointed in a matter of seconds, so they're going to receive the heaviest fishing pressure.
In the 2nd place, a point is no better than the accompanying gradient.
In other words, I'd rather fish a ledge that adjoins a sharp slope than fish a point with a slow taper.
In the 3rd place, 'inside turns' (pockets) are at least as important as 'outside turns' (points).
An indentation in contour lines tends to funnel predators and prey, while the action of a point is division (wedge).
Very often, the best spot on a point will be one of the inside corners at the base of the point.
As Catt alluded to:
1) What was the shoreline elevation (above sea level) when the topographic map was converted to a hydrographic chart.
And what is the 'current' pool level today?
2) Accurate locational assessments are tough to make without seeing the whole enchilada.
For example, it's important to know where the river channel is located (assuming it's a manmade impoundment),
and where the inlet and outlet (dam) is situated. In addition, bottom contour and holding sites are lake-intensive,
where a mild drop-off on one lake might be considered a super grade on another lake (particularly true on natural lakes).
Slope values are relative values even within the same lake, so you really need the whole picture
to distinguish mediocre holding sites from the best 'year-round' holding sites.
Roger
NorcalBassin reply :
Lots of good information fellas... I hope this thread keeps going for another few pages. 
WRB reply :
Can't do much more without knowing where this point is located on this lake and the scale of the map, we know the elevation is 1' increments.
Tom
B@ssCrzy reply :
On 2/4/2014 at 9:36 PM, Catt said:To define this point as "main lake", "primary", or "secondary" is nothing more than speculation without seeing the rest of the map.
Since there are no longitude or latitude lines, giving distances is a wild azz guess.
Given the coloration used it is safe to say the two lines marked in purple is a river/creek channel.
This is a very deceptive portion of a map for the average angler to decipher. If one looks at the bottom right corner there is water on that side as well leading me to think it maybe a peninsula.
So are we ever going to see the rest of the map?
On 2/5/2014 at 3:43 AM, WRB said:Tom
On 2/5/2014 at 12:47 AM, RoLo said:Roger
Ok....here you go. You guys are awesome. Really appreciate all the input on this map!!! Just to clarify this point is on the main part of the lake and is probably in the widest portion of the lake. Can get a lot of boat traffic during the summer.
WRB reply :
That puts it into perspective, however you didn't add scale, approx distance length width of the lake area posted?
Your point borders a spawning bay, so it's difinately a good staging area for pre spawner's. The major point across the lake also looks very good for pre spawner's, coves for the bass to spawn. The 3 rd major main lake point is near the dam, good winter and summer for big bass, depending on the baitfish available.
Don't worry about boat traffic, they bother you more than the bass.
The main river channel makes some nice S turns against the points, this creates good structure where undercuts and rocky ledges can hold bass.
The spawning bay next to the major main lake point in question has 2 secondary points close to the little island, the 1st point closest to the island would be another late pre spawn and post spawn spot and the island will hold some bass.
Good looking lake.
Tom
Catt reply :
Yelp! Wouldn't change anything I've said!
Notice the colored areas for 10, 20, &30'?
That's the shape of the point under water
Where's that 20' hump?
Clue: at the end of the point near the channel
Don't be afraid of the boat traffic, bass in deep water will get accustom to the overhead noise.
Or wait for the moon to rise
Todd2 reply :
Question...between the point in question and the little island to the lower right there is a 20 ft creek channel that goes about a 1/4 way back into the bay before it narrows and comes up. Is that a place you would look in the Summer (night?) Or is that primarily a pre/post spawn spot? Thanks
Catt reply :
The creek channel is marked in purple & does not go near the island.
Todd2 reply :
On 2/6/2014 at 11:37 AM, Catt said:The creek channel is marked in purple & does not go near the island.
Not the main marked channel, the channel/ditch...whatever you want to call it. It looks like a secondary creek channel to me that cuts back through the bay.
coryn h. fishowl reply :
That hump looks like fun time with a football jig and a drop shot rig (summer), and the ledges by those flats look nice for jerkbait fishing (try in the coldwater periods/ pre spawn, and in the fall.) The ledges themselves, I would hit during the spawn.
jhoffman reply :
Heres what this entire underwater point would look like from the sides, not exact but close
boostr reply :
Ya'll make good POINTS... HHHA! I kill me. 
Catt reply :
On 2/6/2014 at 7:59 PM, Todd2 said:Not the main marked channel, the channel/ditch...whatever you want to call it. It looks like a secondary creek channel to me that cuts back through the bay.
That is not a very good map but if at the land it shows nothing going into this area whuch leads me to think it's not a creek.
I would absolutely graphed it
BassWhole! reply :
What latitude is this lake on? The reason I ask, is because you've got quite a bit of deep water compared to shallow spawning areas, should be pretty easy to identify the pre-spawn migration, and eliminate a lot of water, and predict the summer pattern with that info.
WRB reply :
If the OP wants to post details of the spawning bay with the island or the opposite main lake point we can reply.
I doubt that there was a creek draining the spawning bay, it does provide deep water access into and out of the bay. The island looks to be connected to the inside secondary point, creating a saddle....
Tom
Catt reply :
If I wanted to look for a spawning area near that island it would be the little arm below the island.
Why?
It is more protected from winds
Todd2 reply :
Yeah, let's see that entire bay in more detail. This is a very good structure thread.
Catt reply :
On 2/7/2014 at 3:14 AM, Todd2 said:Yeah, let's see that entire bay in more detail. This is a very good structure thread.
Yelp it's fun!
B@ssCrzy reply :
On 2/7/2014 at 2:27 AM, WRB said:If the OP wants to post details of the spawning bay with the island or the opposite main lake point we can reply.
I doubt that there was a creek draining the spawning bay, it does provide deep water access into and out of the bay. The island looks to be connected to the inside secondary point, creating a saddle....
Tom
On 2/7/2014 at 2:47 AM, Catt said:
On 2/7/2014 at 3:14 AM, Todd2 said:
Here is the bay and the point across the lake....
Todd2 reply :
That's a great spawning bay. I fish KY lake several times every year in the spring and I always seem to catch bigger fish in the spawning bays that have deep water. After the post spawn, I'm not sure. Would that deeper water at the front of the bay hold fish year round?
WRB reply :
It's been my experience that bass avoid water 1' or less for spawning, bluegill will use the 1' water.
This means the darker blue zones are too shallow for lakes that fluctuate 6' each year.
To look foe spawner's the 2'- 3' zone would be a better choice than 1'.
I would use the 10' - 20' depth zone when targeting pre spawn, then the 10' zones with flat areas for late pre spawn and post spawn.
Depending on wind direction the back side of the little island may hold a few spawner's, the 10' saddle is looking good to me.
I also have a preference for fish tail shape bays like across the lake adjacent to the main lake point. The10' flat on the point looks good for pre spawner's.
Summer, the main lake channel swings next to points look likely toehold bass. Catts 1' hump point area should be good anytime.
Tom
RoLo reply :
To me at least, the hotspot on that inset is as obvious as a Bait Car.
Look at the north end of the chart where the 21 & 27 ft spot-soundings are displayed.
WHAT ABOUT IT?
1) It's adjacent to the 'Creek Channel'
Given a choice, I'd prefer the river channel, but would happily settle for a creek channel which are often dynamite
2) It displays tight 'Compression'
Compressed contour lines indicate a 'drop-off' (rapid depth change).
The contour-line convergence is so tight here that it nearly forms a solid block (i.e. bluff).
3) It abuts a broad 7-10 ft 'Shelf'
That 7-10 ft shelf plays more into population density than the drop-off into deep water.
It's the foodshelf, spawning ground and nursery for both prey & predator alike.
Any holding site with all these attributes is a rare find:
(1) Adjacent to 'creek channel'
(2) Steepest 'drop-off' in area
(3) Adjacent to broad 'food-shelf'
Side-Note
The circular contour line on the outcropping to the west is a bit deceiving. Rather than a distinct upwelling,
it's a reiteration of the 20 ft contour line to the east. Contour maps are processed electronically,
and a wavy bottom that rolls softly upward just 12 inches will scribe a secondary ring of reiterated depth.
On a high-definition chart (1-foot increments) a wavy bottom can form several benign rings of reiterated depth.
In other words, if we were looking at a chart with "2-ft" increments the 20 ft ring would not appear.
Unless the lake is crystal-clear, the chance of submergent vegetation in 20 feet of water is slim to nada. Nevertheless,
the offshore 20 ft flat is well positioned, and if it furthermore offered woody cover or rocky cover it'd be a powerful spot
during certain seasons. IMO though, the holding site I noted to the north is clearly a 'year-round' holding site.
Roger
Nice_Bass reply :
Side-Note
The circular contour line on the outcropping to the west is a bit deceiving. Rather than a distinct upwelling
it's a reiteration of the 20 ft contour line. Contour maps are processed electronically and if the bottom
rolls softly upward just 12 inches, it'll scribe a secondary ring of reiterated depth.
On a high-definition chart (1-foot increments), a wavy bottom can form several benign rings of reinterated depth.
In other words, if we were looking at a chart with "2-ft" increments the 20 ft ring would not appear.
Unless the lake is crystal-clear, the chance of submergent vegetation in 20 feet of water is slim to nada. Nevertheless,
the offshore 20 ft flat is well positioned, and if it furthermore offered woody cover or rocky cover It'd be a powerful spot
during certain seasons. IMO though, the holding site I noted to the north is clearly a 'year-round' holding site.
Roger
Great points are all in the last post, but especially important to note the highlighted in regards to reading maps correctly. I completely agree, there is no hump out there, just gradual slow taper and most likely nothing I would fish all that hard.
WRB reply :
What is important about the insignificant 20' depth high spot is it's location on the end of this point out near the middle of the main lake basin adjacent to the channel. The fact it's only 1' higher then the point ridge still provides bass a killing zone for baitfish and the surrounding deeper water provides sanctuary.
My gues is this spot is over looked by the locals and should be checked out for soil composition and any rocks or sticks that may be there.
This is classic swimbait structure were you retrieve the lure up and over while bottom bumping. This is also good jig water for casting and retrieving bottom bumping presentations.
Don't over look this type of structure when fishing deep structured lakes.
Tom
Catt reply :
I guess I'm missing something cause I see a 20' hump on a 30' point. That a 10' rise which is more than enough to attract bass.
Nice_Bass reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 3:44 AM, Catt said:I guess I'm missing something cause I see a 20' hump on a 30' point. That a 10' rise which is more than enough to attract bass.
Put into scale with the size of that reservoir- it is a very long slow taper into deeper water- no doubt bass travel it, but it would not be a dominant feature. At scale, we are talking a slow taper of from shoreline to end would be a couple hundred yards. I do like where the old channel swung against the point al along the north side but the does not appear to be any hump.
Editors note: I feel a bit uneasy disagree with you on reading structure, as you seem quite adapt and forming an opinion on it. So not disagreeing on whether or not I would fish it, but more on the 2d-3d translation of what we are looking at.
WRB reply :
This point doesn't slowly taper, it has steep breaks and transitions in steps. The first step is 7-10, the next is 21' with a 1' high spot or knob at end.
Rolo's comment that the high spot may not exist or would not exist on a 2' elevation map is true. However the knob mat be more pronounced due to harder soil and the softer adjacent soil may have eroded away with wave action during draw down or lake filling with water. You will never know unless you meter the area and fish it.
Regardless of what you call it, it's a good looking point with structure elements that are worth fishing.
Tom
Nice_Bass reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 4:29 AM, WRB said:This point doesn't slowly taper, it has steep breaks and transitions in steps. The first step is 7-10, the next is 21' with a 1' high spot or knob at end.
Rolo's comment that the high spot may not exist or would not exist on a 2' elevation map is true. However the knob mat be more pronounced due to harder soil and the softer adjacent soil may have eroded away with wave action during draw down or lake filling with water. You will never know unless you meter the area and fish it.
Regardless of what you call it, it's a good looking point with structure elements that are worth fishing.
Tom
I think we are arguing semantics here- however with scale it is a longer, slower taper than it appears with Sonar Charts data from land headed NNW to end of point. It is a nice piece of structure from the channel cut from the north from what I believe is actually just softer soil. While it has been a few years since I have been there, I have been over the top of it.
DRH2O reply :
On 2/2/2014 at 3:29 AM, Catt said:Some people look at structure from the bank outwards, ya should be looking from the channel towards the bank.
Y'all need to look at a 1 dimensional picture & convert it to a 3 dimensional picture in your brain.
If you take nothing else away from this thread, sear this little nugget into your brain. 
Todd2 reply :
Ok, now that we got the what, let's do the how. Sit deep, cast up shallow? Vice versa? How would you approach it? Pull up and start working it or idle over looking for stuff?
RoLo reply :
QuoteSome people look at structure from the bank outwards, ya should be looking from the channel towards the bank.
On 2/8/2014 at 7:30 AM, DR_H20 said:If you take nothing else away from this thread, sear this little nugget into your brain.
Adopting any angling premise as etched-in-stone is setting yourself up for disappointment. With regard to 'bottom contour analysis',
the first and foremost question to address: "Are we referring to a Natural Lake or Manmade Impoundment (reservoir)".
We don't know whether the Chicken or the Egg came first, but we do know that Natural Lakes came before Artificial Lakes.
In their native environment, a bass's biological characteristics are virtually carved in stone.
From Canada to Florida, largemouth bass residing in natural lakes invariably occupy the 'shallowest' niche of any freshwater species,
even shallower than adult chain pickerel. In lakes containing all the major freshwater gamefish, the depth range order
will generally be the following (deepest to shallowest):
=> Walleyes
=> Adult Pike
=> Smallmouth Bass
=> Muskellunge
=> Immature Pike
=> Chain Pickerel
=> Largemouth Bass.
As a result, Chart Analysis for largemouth bass in their native environment should always begin with Shoreline Configuration.
The search for estuarine embayments and wind-sheltered reproductive bedding flats lie at the backbone of population dynamics.
(Doug Hannon's "Northwest Phenomenon" is merely a subset of shoreline configuration).
Roger
RoLo reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 8:09 AM, Todd2 said:Ok, now that we got the what, let's do the how. Sit deep, cast up shallow? Vice versa? How would you approach it? Pull up and start working it or idle over looking for stuff?
Todd, you came out of the gate like a whirlwind and I truly admired your enthusiasm.
Whether you know it or not, you named 2 out of the initial 3 prerequisites (Species & Waterbody).
Now I'm equally surprised that you feel that the Locational factor has been resolved and you're ready to embark on Presentation.
Frankly, only the surface of bottom-contour analysis has been scratched, and it's far more important than lure delivery.
Roger
WRB reply :
All we know about this lake is it's a man made reservoir,it has a dam, possibly located in Indiana.
The bass could be northern strain LMB or Smallmouth both, a typical bass lake for this region.
My guess is the prey fish are; bluegill, crappie, perch and minnows with crawfish added.
I would class this as a hill land reservoir.
If this lake has pelagic baitfish, fish that live away from shore, then deep structure becomes more predominate.
The OP hasn't shared information regarding scale, the size of this lake or what baitfish are available.
I have ruled out shad due to how far north this lake may be located??
If bass anglers believe bass are shoreline fish, they are missing a big population of bass in man made impoundments.
If this lake was located where threadfin shad or herring are predominate, the point we are discussing becomes good structure.
Tom
Todd2 reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 10:34 AM, RoLo said:Frankly, only the surface of bottom-contour analysis has been scratched, and it's far more important than lure delivery.
Roger
Thanks Roger for the compliment..what more do you see on this structure?
RoLo reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 11:36 AM, WRB said:All we know about this lake is it's a man made reservoir,it has a dam, possibly located in Indiana.
The bass could be northern strain LMB or Smallmouth both, a typical bass lake for this region.
My guess is the prey fish are; bluegill, crappie, perch and minnows with crawfish added.
I would class this as a hill land reservoir.
If this lake has pelagic baitfish, fish that live away from shore, then deep structure becomes more predominate.
The OP hasn't shared information regarding scale, the size of this lake or what baitfish are available.
I have ruled out shad due to how far north this lake may be located??
If bass anglers believe bass are shoreline fish, they are missing a big population of bass in man made impoundments.
If this lake was located where threadfin shad or herring are predominate, the point we are discussing becomes good structure.
Tom
WRB, the statement in blue applies chiefly to bass taken out of their natural environs and forced to adapt to non-indigenous conditions.
If we returned a California Florida-strain bass back to its roots in Florida, it's a solid bet that it'll gravitate back to lush vegetation in shallow water.
Professional anglers beat the banks simply because bass beat the banks. every chance they get.
Bass cut a living wherever the necessities of life are most easily accessible. A high-percentage of bass live and die without ever seeing a shoreline,
because depth and cover are the controlling elements, not distance from shore. If ideal conditions are provided 2 miles offshore,
bass will be found 2 miles offshore. If ideal conditions are satisifed 2 yards off the shoreline, bass will be found 2 yards off the shoreline.
An angler should only pay attention to food-shelves, drop-offs and cover, while totally ignoring his boat's distance from shore, which is inconsequential.
Roger
Fish Murderer 71 reply :
and after all that, now I feel like an idiot when it comes to my knowledge of reading topos...
WRB reply :
Roger,
Bass lakes in the heart land of professional bassdom are 99% man made, Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc.
This region has native northern strain LMB population that were not transplanted and evolved in reserviors after the rivers were dammed over 60 years ago
Not dissagreeing with yor hypothosis, bass behavior in deep structured lakes differs from low land natural lakes.
Tom
Catt reply :
I know I'm just a dumb Cajun but this is what I've gathered from what the OP said or off the maps.
Man made reservoir
Elevation: 810'
Y'all keep talking about the taper of the point from the bank out to the hump. I'm interested in the drop from the hump down to the river/creek channel.
RoLo reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 5:25 PM, WRB said:Roger,
Bass lakes in the heart land of professional bassdom are 99% man made, Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc.
This region has native northern strain LMB population that were not transplanted and evolved in reserviors after the rivers were dammed over 60 years ago
Not dissagreeing with yor hypothosis, bass behavior in deep structured lakes differs from low land natural lakes.
Tom
Yes, but in spite of the vast majority of artificial lakes, we don't have to look very hard to find pro anglers skirting the bank.
The inset above is clearly an artificial lake, and on that basis I pinpointed my favorite trial site.
A steep drop-off into 30 ft of water that bridges the creek channel with a 7 to 10 food-shelf.
Whether we call it a Shelf, Ledge, Point or Flat has absolutely no influence on its function as a holding site.
In any case, I don't want to mislead readers into believing that this single example can be used for chart analysis
on both natural lakes and artificial lakes. It's this faulty notion that has stigmatized 'bank-beating'.
Bass need not know or care where the shoreline might be, it may be close to their lair or it may be far away.
To help appreciate the vast difference between natural lakes & artificial lakes, my favorite trophy water
is a natural lake with a basin depth of 9 ft. If you fish deeper than 6 ft on this lake, you're entry fee becomes charity.
(BTW: In addition to golden shiners, Florida supports statewide, year-round populations of threadfin shad & gizzard shad)
Roger
jhoffman reply :
Indiana isnt far enough north to exclude all shad. Doubt it has threadfins but it might very well have shad. I know of lakes here in pa that have shad, namely gizzard shad.
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/9/2014 at 2:54 AM, RoLo said:Yes, but in spite of the vast majority of artificial lakes, we don't have to look very hard to find pro anglers skirting the bank.
The inset above is clearly an artificial lake, and on that basis I pinpointed my favorite trial site.
A steep drop-off into 30 ft of water that bridges the creek channel with a 7 to 10 food-shelf.
Whether we call it a Shelf, Ledge, Point or Flat has absolutely no influence on its function as a holding site.
In any case, I don't want to mislead readers into believing that this single example can be used for chart analysis
on both natural lakes and artificial lakes. It's this faulty notion that has stigmatized 'bank-beating'.
Bass don't know nor care where the shoreline might be, it may be close to their lair or it may be far away.
To help appreciate the vast difference between natural lakes & artificial lakes, my favorite trophy water
is a natural lake with a basin depth of 9 ft. If you fish deeper than 6 ft on this lake, you're entry fee becomes charity.
(BTW: In addition to golden shiners, Florida supports statewide, year-round populations of threadfin shad & gizzard shad)
Roger
I don't know what bass "know or care about". But I'm pretty sure that any aquatic creature which faces a habitat boundary, which potentially holds dangers and/or forage will have evolved a way of detecting and using this boundary, or it would be a fossil.
B@ssCrzy reply :
The lake in question has a healthy population of bluegill, crappie, and gizzard shad. Not sure about threadfin shad.
WRB reply :
I believe we are talking about helping he OP to understand this structure.
This first thing to look at is how the bass use this point or any point. What is above the water helps us to understand what is below the water, the terrain doesn't change. You should visualize the structure without water and try to figure out how bass and baitfish or crayfish would be located.
The first thing you look for is a river or creek channel and any structure like points or humps intersect the channel.
If you go back to the beginning of this thread there is common structure features discussed; the 10' flats adjacent to steep breaks into the channel, the end of the point that breaks into the channel and the funnel zone or saddle area. You can apply these structure features to most deep structure lakes.
The first question to solve is how deep are the active feeding bass, this fact determines where the bass should be located on this structure. This isn't a large area to fish and shouldn't take long to learn what's going on.
Deep is relative to the region, where I fish the lakes are over 100' deep, so this lake looks shallow to me. I know from experience that 20' is deep water east of the Rocky Mountains and south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
During the summer the thermocline will affect how deep bass will locate,another factor to consider.
Type of baitfish are important, no pelagic fish, no reason for the bass to move out into deep structure, other than seeking comfortable water temps and sanctuary.
Good luck and hope we helped more than confuse you.
Tom
Catt reply :
Give a man a fish & you'll feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish & you'll confuse him for a life time!
Todd2 reply :
Does anybody remember the original question..lol?
Nice_Bass reply :
On 2/8/2014 at 10:56 PM, Catt said:I know I'm just a dumb Cajun but this is what I've gathered from what the OP said or off the maps.
Man made reservoir
Elevation: 810'
In Midwest reservoirs due to gizzard shad, bluegill, migration along with other predatory gamefish like white/stripers, etc, coupled with current generation and natural siltation of old river channel with soft soils makes taper of the point from land to the old channel swings critical in these small reservoirs.
Y'all keep talking about the taper of the point from the bank out to the hump. I'm interested in the drop from the hump down to the river/creek channel.
WRB reply :
On 2/9/2014 at 9:31 AM, Catt said:Give a man a fish & you'll feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish & you'll confuse him for a life time!
Tommy you posted some gems in the past, this is one of your best!
Tom
WRB reply :
Little of topic.
When I was traveling around the country every other week during my 45 year career in aerospace the opportunity to bass fish came from time to time. May have missed a few states that had a bass population, but not many. The reason I share this is to point out been there done that and have first hand experience with a lot different types of lakes, rives and ponds. I feel blessed to have shared fishing time with a lot of different bass anglers across our country and Mexico.
Back on topic.
The map posted of this small lake with points and spawning bays adjacent are classic in regards to discussing structure and I sincerely hope the OP and a few members learned something from this thread. This site has a lot of talent to give everyone a slightly different perspective and that is what makes our sport so interesting.
Tom
Catt reply :
Aerospace!!!!
I worked for Boeing, Grumman, Northrop/Grumman, & Airbus!
B@ssCrzy reply :
You guys have been awesome!! I have been sitting back just reading and trying to soak it all in. This has given me so much to think about and even try this summer. I thank you guys so much for your input and knowledge and am hungry to go out and fish this point over the next year. I am sure I will be reading and re-reading this thread trying to apply the things that have been shared. Thanks so much fellas!!
Todd2 reply :
Well said Tom... I took away a few things for sure. I pulled out a map of my main lake and marked a couple of new spots that I've never tried that have the 'feeding shelves' next to the channel. Which makes me think, why are those important vs a steeper drop without the ledges? I was just watching a fishing show and he mentioned the shelves as well, but no reason.
RoLo reply :
On 2/10/2014 at 6:32 AM, Todd2 said:Well said Tom... I took away a few things for sure. I pulled out a map of my main lake and marked a couple of new spots that I've never tried
that have the 'feeding shelves' next to the channel. Which makes me think, why are those important vs a steeper drop without the ledges?
I was just watching a fishing show and he mentioned the shelves as well, but no reason.
Now you're cooking with gas 
In Contour Analysis 202 you'll need to learn the pivot depths where the search for widely spaced depth lines
should revert to tightly stacked depth lines (where the shelf depth should end and the drop-off should begin).
Among the variables are Lake Type, Water Clarity, Weedline Depth, Oxycline & Current Pool Level.
Roger
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