Thoughts on Zman changing the definition of the Ned Rig 2024
cgolf reply :
I know @Team9nine and @IndianaFinesse were the defenders/definers of the Ned rig. I know I questioned them a few times lol.
Saw a FB add today saying you can super size your Ned rig with the mag TRD and 6/0 shroomz head. Is the true definition of the Ned rig/Midwest finesse lost to the general public. While Z man did a good job of initially marketing it, they sure are confusing the issue now.
Sam reply :
Marketing.
You can legally change one small thing about any product and you can legally call it "new and improved."
This seems to be another way to create interest in Z-Man's Ned rig offerings that may or may not produce bites.
Confusing? Of course. It is meant to be confusing. Just check out the laundry detergent aisle in your favorite super market and you will see lots of colors, soap that smells like a wedding cake to a skunk, whitners, softners, and the list goes on and on and on.
Seems like the manufacturers are following the soap companies' marketing strategy these days, with help from their pro staffs.
Team9nine reply :
LOL - Yeah, it's long gone and hardly worth trying to explain anymore. I just roll my eyes and grin now days - then keep on doing what I've been doing all along since jumping aboard. Ned summed it up best in a review he posted of such similar baits:
"As for our thoughts, they are nice looking jigs. And it looks as if they are jigs that power anglers will use when they employ a tactic that we call power-finesse fishing, which is not a part of our Midwest finesse repertoire. Across the many years that we have been affixing a variety of small soft-plastic baits, which started with a Nick and Cosma Creme's soft-plastic worm and a Bass Buster Lure Company's Beetle, to a jig in pursuit of largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, and spotted bass, we have never had a need to fish places that are inaccessible. Our aim is to catch 25 black bass an hour, and on average we catch about 10 an hour, and to accomplish that feat and not harm the black bass that we hook, we have found that it is best to use No. 6, No 4, and No. 2 hooks. And when we are probing lairs that are accessible but somewhat laden with snags, we have found that a small hook and a lightweight jig, such as a 1/32-ounce one or a 1/20-ounce one, are ideal; it is a tactic that we learned to use decades ago when we were using marabou jigs with light-wire hooks.
In other words, it is not a jig that the dyed-in-the-wool Midwest finesse angler will use."
- Ned Kehde
Darren. reply :
Yeah, the changing of the "original" parameters of the Ned rig makes
the original less ... original. Though as I have thought about it upon
watching the vids, it's like just about any rig...someone ends up
super-sizing it.
Carolina?! Pffft. Let's shrink it to the Mojo rig.
Ned?! Pffft. Let's super-size it for the power fisherfolk!
We can't stop "progress". I'll fish what I like and what works 
webertime reply :
That goof squad and their rattling neds now? Soooooo confused, now it's a jig without skirting?
waymont reply :
It all catches fish. I have no beef with companies putting out new baits. When I first started using ned rigs with TRD and 1/16 mushroom heads I was amazed at how many fish I was catching, and some big fish too. As time went on I would use the BIG TRD, the Hula StickZ with 3/32, 1/8oz heads to get deeper. One of my favorites is the Z-Man CrusteaZ (tiny craw/crab looking baits) that catch everything that swims. I have caught some big carp in streams while SMB fishing with these guys not to mention everything else that swims in the streams.
I have caught thousands of fish on these different Ned Baits. As far as using the Ned name goes....I guess they have to call it something.
I have seen some people on YouTube using what they call a MagNed, a big thick stick bait cut down, on a mushroom head in deep water for big fish.
If it catches fish, do it. Once I got used to Z-Man soft baits they became my favorite. I see no reason to use any other companys 2.5" worms on Ned Rigs. I like using one TRD to catch 50+ bass and using it until my jig gets lost on a log/rock.
cgolf reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 8:24 AM, Sam said:Marketing.
You can legally change one small thing about any product and you can legally call it "new and improved."
This seems to be another way to create interest in Z-Man's Ned rig offerings that may or may not produce bites.
Confusing? Of course. It is meant to be confusing. Just check out the laundry detergent aisle in your favorite super market and you will see lots of colors, soap that smells like a wedding cake to a skunk, whitners, softners, and the list goes on and on and on.
Seems like the manufacturers are following the soap companies' marketing strategy these days, with help from their pro staffs.
I had unknowingly fished Midwest finesse for years on my local waters and some lakes. I did/do find I need to use heavier heads fishing vertical cover like reeds on windy days where bait location is crucial and light baits get blown off the mark before they hit bottom. To me it was just fishing what I needed to to catch fish.
Since the 2 I quoted in the original post learned me on the true definition of Midwest finesse, most of my jig purchases met that criteria for the technique.
The only thing I have gone away from is Zman baits. It is just too much of a hassle to have them in the tackle bag when I also heavily rely on other brands of plastics especially Rage and Gambler. They are good baits, just not for my storage system. My current hot Ned bait is the Keitech crazy flapper 2.8. That is a nice bait and fairly durable.
But yeah marketing is definitely a powerful thing, just surprised they kept the Ned name in it, since they have even published the specifics of his technique. The big thing is just a buoyant senko on a Shakey head.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
It happens with everything. Drop shot, shaky head, Ned Rig, A rig, Jika rig, all mean something very specific when I use the term but you may envision something completely different. Neither is necessarily right or wrong. It just comes with the territory.
WRB reply :
You can't define Finesse let alone Indiana finesse vs western finesse. Ned rig was unique for awhile now morphed into any stick worm mushroom jig presentation. It's like drop shot to Bubba shot or finesse to power presentation.
I haven't progress beyond dart heads, they are still a finesse jig worm presentation that catches bass.
Tom
jbsoonerfan reply :
Well, I still see people say weightless Texas Rig. That really used to get under my skin, but I guess it is what it is.
WRB reply :
^^^this^^^
I came very close to quitting BR over that topic.
Tom
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 11:00 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Well, I still see people say weightless Texas Rig. That really used to get under my skin, but I guess it is what it is.
On 8/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, WRB said:^^^this^^^
I came very close to quitting BR over that topic.
Tom
❄️❄️
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, WRB said:^^^this^^^
I came very close to quitting BR over that topic.
Tom
I got put in time out over it. LOL
Bluebasser86 reply :
What they're calling a "Magnum Ned Rig" or whatever, is just a Jigworm IMO. It's a very effective way to catch fish, the Linder's use to feature the technique often on their show, I remember seeing it often as a kid.
I gave up with trying to explain what fits into the basic guidelines of what is a Midwest Finesse bait. If it catches fish for people, they can call it whatever they want.
BassWhole! reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 8:18 AM, cgolf said:Thoughts on Zman changing the definition of the Ned Rig
Thought: meh
fishwizzard reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 8:27 AM, Team9nine said:LOL - Yeah, it's long gone and hardly worth trying to explain anymore.
I feel the same way, if people want to fish a heavy, exposed hook jig-worm on the bottom then more power too them.
I do think the popularity of the "Non-Ned" is really helping people start to catch more bass just by virtue of getting them to let a lure sit still on the bottom.
J Francho reply :
So, basically, it's a bigger poop rig? I like it. 
Fishing_FF reply :
There are some Florida YouTube guys (JTK is one of them) that have been using a "Mag Ned Rig" as they call it for over a year now. The primary two I'm thinking of have sponsorships through Gambler, so they are using a 7" FAT Ace cut just before the egg sack and put on a slightly heavier jighead.
Not to derail the thread, but what do you call a weightless 5" Senko rigged with a Gammy EWG hook buried in the plastic, IE not Texposed, @WRB or @jbsoonerfan?
RB 77 reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 11:00 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Well, I still see people say weightless Texas Rig. That really used to get under my skin, but I guess it is what it is.
Yup. It's called "fly-lined" by most folks out this way (a take on a popular salt water terminology). People scratch their head at that if they have never heard the term before, but you say "weightless T-Rig" they know exactly what you are talking about. Go figure...
Hawkeye21 reply :
I don't get worked up over things like this. I try different techniques and stick with what works. Right now I'm trying different hooks for my Ned rig because I dislike the Z-Man ones.
cgolf reply :
On 8/9/2019 at 2:24 AM, Hawkeye21 said:I don't get worked up over things like this. I try different techniques and stick with what works. Right now I'm trying different hooks for my Ned rig because I dislike the Z-Man ones.
The Siebert Morels and Berkley half head jigs are all I use now. The berkley is shorter and longer while the Siebert is taller and flatter.
jbrew73 reply :
I call it a beetle spin...without the spin
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
On 8/9/2019 at 2:24 AM, Hawkeye21 said:I don't get worked up over things like this. I try different techniques and stick with what works. Right now I'm trying different hooks for my Ned rig because I dislike the Z-Man ones.
On 8/9/2019 at 6:57 AM, cgolf said:The Siebert Morels and Berkley half head jigs are all I use now. The berkley is shorter and longer while the Siebert is taller and flatter.
I have the Berkleys as well they are much better than the zman junk. But for the sharpest out there I have been using the new Trokar finesse ned head
.
ChrisD46 reply :
To each their own ... *I haven't progressed beyond the original TRD or half a Zinker and a 1/32nd oz - 1/16th oz. mushroom head .
Comfortably Numb reply :
My pet peeve is when people call any soft stick bait a Senko.
FishTank reply :
I have been killing it on the the Ned Rig this year but specifically the Big TRD. I do hate the Z Man jigs. Each time I fish this set up, I either bend or brake a hook beyond repair. The baits tend to last longer. I have tried a few other baits but the Z-Man Big TRD has worked the best. I just wish I could find a better jig head locally.
Columbia Craw reply :
It's nothing more than a constipated tube. Some of this stuff get's way too complicated.
ChrisD46 reply :
On 8/10/2019 at 11:48 AM, FishTank said:I have been killing it on the the Ned Rig this year but specifically the Big TRD. I do hate the Z Man jigs. Each time I fish this set up, I either bend or brake a hook beyond repair. The baits tend to last longer. I have tried a few other baits but the Z-Man Big TRD has worked the best. I just wish I could find a better jig head locally.
For the big TRD I recommend site sponsor the Siebert Outdoors Moral Ned Jig Head with the longer shank , 1/0 Owner hook and a vast array of color options and weights (start with 1/16th oz.) : https://www.siebertoutdoors.com/Morel-XL-Jig-Head-1024.htm
TBAG reply :
On 8/8/2019 at 11:00 AM, jbsoonerfan said:Well, I still see people say weightless Texas Rig. That really used to get under my skin, but I guess it is what it is.
Ok, so what is your preferred terminology? Just curious.
Choporoz reply :
Seems like only yesterday when I first read about a ned rig here. When I went looking for < 1/8oz mushroom head jigs with a keeper that would hold elaztech, I came up empty handed...that couldn't have been three years ago. Now, every fishing ad and email I open has Ned something or other.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 1:15 AM, TBAG said:Ok, so what is your preferred terminology? Just curious.
I prefer not to argue.
J Francho reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 1:15 AM, TBAG said:Ok, so what is your preferred terminology? Just curious.
Weedless. A Texas rig ALWAYS includes a sliding bullet weight. Without it, it's just weedless.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 2:46 AM, J Francho said:Weedless. A Texas rig ALWAYS includes a sliding bullet weight. Without it, it's just weedless.
I wish I could like this a million times!!!!!!
MickD reply :
I am missing that they are "changing" anything. Are they not simply adding a new size? Did everyone get upset when a second size of Whopper Plopper came out? Last I looked the original TRD is still there, still called the same thing.
Team9nine reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 3:24 AM, MickD said:I am missing that they are "changing" anything. Are they not simply adding a new size? Did everyone get upset when a second size of Whopper Plopper came out? Last I looked the original TRD is still there, still called the same thing.
Yeah, you’re missing the history behind the story/bait which helps to explain/frame the original question. It’s not as simple as the Whopper Plopper example.
BassNJake reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 3:24 AM, MickD said:I am missing that they are "changing" anything. Are they not simply adding a new size? Did everyone get upset when a second size of Whopper Plopper came out? Last I looked the original TRD is still there, still called the same thing.
This is just my opinion looking from the outside in.
Not everyone will be upset that there are larger sizes being sold as "ned rigs"
This will only upset the purists who think the "ned rig" is more of a philosophy than a bait.
Changing to a larger size is against the philosophy of the origins of the ned rig
It's like calling a quarter ---> a super sized penny
MickD reply :
Much ado about nothing.
fishwizzard reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 3:44 AM, BassNJake said:This is just my opinion looking from the outside in.
Not everyone will be upset that there are larger sizes being sold as "ned rigs"
This will only upset the purists who think the "ned rig" is more of a philosophy than a bait.
Changing to a larger size is against the philosophy of the origins of the ned rig
It's like calling a quarter ---> a super sized penny
It's only annoying because it makes discussion harder. If things don't have specific meanings it's hard to talk about them in find detail. If people called every spice "basil", it would be hard to talk about cooking.
OCdockskipper reply :
I wouldn't say "upset", more like annoyed. A Ned Rig is a certain thing but the definition of it is getting expanded, often by folks who don't use it much.
A muscle car is a description for certain vehicles built in the late 60's and early 70's. If someone calls their 1980 Nissan 280z a muscle car, they are expanding the definition. It doesn't mean their car isn't fast or may induce woman folk to take a ride, but it just isn't a muscle car.
bowhunter63 reply :
Either way old Ned left his mark on Bass fishing.
Yumeya reply :
Magnum ned rig sounds ridiculous IMO.
Also most people who do ned rig seem to think dragging it on the bottom like a shakeyhead is
the way to use it, so basically isn't a magnum ned rig really just a fat worm rigged shakeyead?
cgolf reply :
What finally got me to shake my head was the 6” mag TRD with a 6/0 hook on a jighead. That is power fishing and is a jig worm or Shakey head take your pick. Ned rig to me is an ultra finesse presentation.
To me there is the above and then the sub 4” Ned rig baits. As far as the jigs go for these baits I only learned the last couple of years from team9nine and indianafinnesse that a good portion of my river fishing the last 15 years was of the Ned rig Midwest finesse variety.
Team9nine reply :
On 8/13/2019 at 5:06 AM, MickD said:Much ado about nothing.
That pretty much describes every topic we discuss at length in these forums It's all just fishing...
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Now the Lindy rig is tweaked and we have yet another (not so) new Free Rig. Lol Just roll with it. It’s never gonna stop. And we should hope it doesn’t. We don’t need any more best rod/reel for $x threads.
jtharris3 reply :
On 8/9/2019 at 2:24 AM, Hawkeye21 said:I don't get worked up over things like this. I try different techniques and stick with what works. Right now I'm trying different hooks for my Ned rig because I dislike the Z-Man ones.
I tried the NED EWG jigs from Lifted Jigs and have been doing well with them.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 8/14/2019 at 4:27 AM, jtharris3 said:
I tried the NED EWG jigs from Lifted Jigs and have been doing well with them.
It's really funny and strange that you posted this. I ordered those exact hooks from TW and got them yesterday. They look pretty awesome.
Elkins45 reply :
I think the distinction between a Ned rig and just a dinger on a jig head is the fact the Z-man elaztech worms are so buoyant. The Ned rig stands up off the bottom but a conventional stick worm probably lays flat even with a mushroom head.
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