Latest Color Research (Bass Vision) 2024
Team9nine reply :
Somewhat surprised no one has jumped on this one yet, but a study published just last month in the journal Current Zoology confirmed some interesting details on bass vision that have been suggested by others over the years. These included the following;
- Bass have dichromatic color vision, with green sensitive single cones and red sensitive twin cones, along with a rod cell. This has been compared to seeing the world through a yellow filter, which would give the poorest vision (color discrimination) toward the blue/purple end of the spectrum.
- As far as bass are concerned, chartreuse yellow is indistinguishable from white.
- Also, the behavioral assays indicated that blue is indistinguishable from black.
- Red and green were the most easily identified and distinguished colors.
- They saw little if any difference in outcomes when comparing Florida strain bass to northern strain fish.
Obviously, there are no absolutes in terms of making definitive statements on bass vision and what their interpretation in their little brains is. It can be especially difficult when comparing lab analysis to field conditions. One thing you can count on...manufacturers will keep selling and profiting off chartreuse-white and black-blue baits, while bass anglers will keep believing in these color combinations and continue to buy them. However, the accumulating science (going back to 1937) is beginning to suggest perhaps we've all been 'fooled.'
Sam reply :
Outstanding!
Great information.
Hopefully the research will continue into the future.
Thanks for sharing.
frosty reply :
That’s it, all my baits are either red or green! Seriously though, I think on my next order of jigs I’m going to find one red and one green and give them a shot.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 5:57 AM, Team9nine said:Somewhat surprised no one has jumped on this one yet, but a study published just last month in the journal Current Zoology confirmed some interesting details on bass vision that have been suggested by others over the years. These included the following;
- Bass have dichromatic color vision, with green sensitive single cones and red sensitive twin cones, along with a rod cell. This has been compared to seeing the world through a yellow filter, which would give the poorest vision (color discrimination) toward the blue/purple end of the spectrum.
- As far as bass are concerned, chartreuse yellow is indistinguishable from white.
- Also, the behavioral assays indicated that blue is indistinguishable from black.
- Red and green were the most easily identified and distinguished colors.
- They saw little if any difference in outcomes when comparing Florida strain bass to northern strain fish.
Obviously, there are no absolutes in terms of making definitive statements on bass vision and what their interpretation in their little brains is. It can be especially difficult when comparing lab analysis to field conditions. One thing you can count on...manufacturers will keep selling and profiting off chartreuse-white and black-blue baits, while bass anglers will keep believing in these color combinations and continue to buy them. However, the accumulating science (going back to 1937) is beginning to suggest perhaps we've all been 'fooled.'
Excellent! I'm going to have to look this up -- is the indiscriminability of chartreuse and white also verified from behavioral testing in this study? There are mechanistic reasons why this would be the case when you have a red+green form of dichromacy, but it's one thing to say, "here's what should happen based on physiology", and another thing to actually show how this translates into behavior.
Team9nine reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 6:26 AM, MIbassyaker said:Excellent! I'm going to have to look this up -- is the indiscriminability of chartreuse and white also verified from behavioral testing in this study? There are mechanistic reasons why this would be the case when you have a red+green form of dichromacy, but it's one thing to say, "here's what should happen based on physiology", and another thing to actually show how this translates into behavior.
Excerpted from the paper:
QuoteThis study had 2 goals. The first was to characterize the bass visual system and determine whether it differed among populations/subspecies. Specifically, we sought to (1) characterize the number of photoreceptors in the bass visual system and their spectral sensitivities and (2) determine whether the photoreceptor sensitivities varied between 2 subspecies of bass: Micropterus salmoides salmoides (from IL) and Micropterus salmoides floridanus (from FL). To do this, we collected bass from Florida and Illinois and performed microspectrophotometry (MSP) where we measured the spectral sensitivities of cones and rods for many individuals from each collection site.
The second goal was to determine which colors bass could discriminate and whether this matched the predictions from a simple model that was parameterized using our estimates of bass photoreceptor spectral sensitivities. Visual detection models provide predictions of opponency and brightness for the bass visual system. We used our model to identify target colors that look different to humans, but should appear similar to bass. We also used our model to identify colors that have similar values for opponency, but differ in brightness, to test whether bass use opponency as a visual cue. To test these predictions, we trained bass in the lab to approach and strike a specific target color and then asked whether they could discern their target color from other colors.
Log Catcher reply :
I don't know about bass color perception. I can say I have never caught a bass on a green pumpkin jig. It usually either black and blue or pb&j colors.
cgolf reply :
Great info. Thanks for posting.
My clear water strategy has been, to try to match the hatch figuring no matter how good or bad their vision is, if The bait is close to the forage fish color they will see the bait as prey. In clear water when it is overcast or wavy I go with water red, and when it is sunny and flat smoke red or purple. This to me covered gills with the sun on them and in the shade.
The Chartruese results surprise me, I wonder if smallies are the same as largemouth. Over the years smallies have really liked chartruese over other colors.
WRB reply :
Always interesting to learn and thank you for the heads up.
Is there a study of the human eye that can tell how we see colors and why a color blind person can't see the same colors?
I realize color blind is a brain interpretion issue in lieu of eye construction
Tom
BassWhole! reply :
WTS/WTT
UV lures, will consider trade for anything green, red (or either chartreuse or white)...☺️
FryDog62 reply :
I have always heard that fish can see the color red until it gets a couple feet below the surface, then the fish lose their perception of the red and/or it grays out. Does this latest research address that at all?
MIbassyaker reply :
Speaking of UV....
Some chartreuses have fluorescent properties, which means they reflect UV light in long-shifted, or elongated form, so that the reflected wavelength tips into the visible spectrum. This is what makes fluorescent colors so bright -- they reflect greater intensity of visible light than is coming in from the environment.
So while bass may have trouble distinguishing chartreuse from white all else being equal, in some darker or murkier environments, a chartreuse lure may still have more intensity than a white lure.
NorthernBasser reply :
Jesus, just when I thought I finally had these buggers all figured out!
Team9nine reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 8:09 AM, WRB said:Always interesting to learn and thank you for the heads up.
Is there a study of the human eye that can tell how we see colors and why a color blind person can't see the same colors?
I realize color blind is a brain interpretion issue in lieu of eye construction
Tom
Haven't studied it a ton, but as I understand it, studies suggest it is a combination of the loss of one of the three cone photopigments (faulty cone, either genetically or due to some type of damage...medical condition, injury, etc.), and/or a breakdown in the visual pathway from the cone to the brain. There are three visual pathway subsystems. The three subsystems allow three kinds of discriminations: light from dark, yellow from blue, and red from green. With cone damage, some studies suggest that no other aspect of vision other than color are actually affected. In the bass study, there is a complete loss/absence of the blue cone leaving only red and green and making them dichromatic (people are trichromatic). How a basses brain interprets that relative to a persons brain with color blindness due to a faulty cone, I can't say.
Montanaro reply :
Wavelengths don't change due to cones and rods. Red may be distinguishable but if red light cant reach the lure then it is not red.
As for white and chartreuse...white requires all color wavelengths. Yellow lasts a little longer than red. How that translates under watee im not sure...probably creates a blending of shades of white/grey.
Black and blue creates different shadings of black that stands out well on bottom...
So basically red cranks are great shallow and muddy water....
OkobojiEagle reply :
Alright smarty pants, explain why Santa Clause and his elves can sneak in and out without anyone seeing them!
cgolf reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 8:09 AM, WRB said:Always interesting to learn and thank you for the heads up.
Is there a study of the human eye that can tell how we see colors and why a color blind person can't see the same colors?
I realize color blind is a brain interpretion issue in lieu of eye construction
Tom
It has been interesting talking to some color blind friends. While they can’t see certain colors, they can tell what it is by the shade of the colors they can see. One guy was actually a fairly good painter.
My thoughts with fish is similar, they see shades of color, so a color may work great, just not for the reasons we think.
WRB reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 10:33 AM, cgolf said:It has been interesting talking to some color blind friends. While they can’t see certain colors, they can tell what it is by the shade of the colors they can see. One guy was actually a fairly good painter.
My thoughts with fish is similar, they see shades of color, so a color may work great, just not for the reasons we think.
Aaron Martens is color blind or limited color blind.
Tom
MIbassyaker reply :
I'm trying to think of a way of saying this that makes sense, but one way to think about the blue and chartreuse thing is to understand that, in humans, the perception of "white" as different from "yellow" depends critically on our ability to see "blue" (or more precisely, to detect short wavelengths of light, which we perceive as blue). In emitted light, as in a TV or computer monitors, if you add blue to yellow in the same region, you essentially get white light
As @Montanaro says above, we see white when the full spectrum of light wavelengths hit the eye. Physiologically, what this means is all three cones are being stimulated to about the same degree -- the three kinds of color detecting cells in your eye register the presence of light, with each one "tuned" to be most sensitive to particular ranges of wavelengths that are relatively short (S), medium (M), or long (L). "White" occurs when all three ranges are registered at once. By contrast, when there is more S than L or M, you see blue. More M than S or L, and you see green. More L than M or S, and you see red. All color perception is ultimately based on the distribution of responses you get out of the three cones at once.
Yellow is, essentially, the experience of having your M and L cones stimulated to about the same degree, but both more than the S. This happens when light hits the eye with a wavelength somewhere in-between the peak sensitivity of the M and L, so you get a moderate response out of both cones. But color yellow is not just that you get equal response out of these cones, it is also that both responses are greater than the S cone. So what's the difference between the perception of white and yellow at this level? It is entirely due to what's happening with the short cone -- if the response is a lot lower than M and L, you see yellow. If it is about the same, you see white.
So, in other words, the consequences of having no third short-wavelength detector are that (1) you lose the ability to detect any light in that range, and therefore there is no basis for seeing blue as different than black, the absence of color, and (2), you also lose the only cone response that differs in the perception of "white" and "yellow".
However, even if bass cannot distinguish blue from black or white from yellow/chartreuse, they certainly can still detect differences in light intensity (and are very good at it), and various shades of blue may be greater intensity than black within part of the bass's detectable range, while yellow or chartreuse may have greater or lesser intensity than a shade of white.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 8:09 AM, WRB said:I realize color blind is a brain interpretion issue in lieu of eye construction
Tom
On 5/1/2018 at 9:22 AM, Team9nine said:
Haven't studied it a ton, but as I understand it, studies suggest it is a combination of the loss of one of the three cone photopigments (faulty cone, either genetically or due to some type of damage...medical condition, injury, etc.), and/or a breakdown in the visual pathway from the cone to the brain. There are three visual pathway subsystems. The three subsystems allow three kinds of discriminations: light from dark, yellow from blue, and red from green. With cone damage, some studies suggest that no other aspect of vision other than color are actually affected. In the bass study, there is a complete loss/absence of the blue cone leaving only red and green and making them dichromatic (people are trichromatic). How a basses brain interprets that relative to a persons brain with color blindness due to a faulty cone, I can't say.
On 5/1/2018 at 10:33 AM, cgolf said:It has been interesting talking to some color blind friends. While they can’t see certain colors, they can tell what it is by the shade of the colors they can see. One guy was actually a fairly good painter.
All true -- there are several forms of colorblindness, but some are much more common than others. The most common is inherited red-green colorblindness, in which an individual sees colors, but red and green look the same.
As far as we can tell, most instances of this sort of color deficit are abnormalities in what is known as the opponency stage of processing. When the cone cells in the eye respond to light, those responses are passed to a network of neurons that combine the responses and communicate them to brain. As @Team9nine says, there are three subsystems, each of which combines information from the cones in by calculating a difference signal. The difference signals have the effect of organizing color perception into opposite pairs. The red-green pathway, for instance, contains cells that are excited by the response of the "long" (L) cone and inhibited by the "medium" cone, or vice versa, while both are stimulated equally by the short cone (i.e., an L-M+S signal...probably not as simple as that exact equation, but that's the basic idea). The result is a pathway that provides information about "greenness" vs. "redness" depending on where the calculated balance of the signal lies. Red-green colorblindness is thought in most cases to be an abnormality in how this signal is either calculated or communicated to the brain. There is also yellow-blue colorblindness, which is much rarer, but probably an analogous disruption in the calculation of the yellow-blue opponency signal in another pathway (i.e. an L+M-S signal).
And then there are really rare conditions like Achromatopsia, which is loss of color vision (in severe cases, literally seeing in black and white) due to brain damage in an area of the visual system called V4.
WRB reply :
Where I fish color usually is a critical factor in soft plastics, ask any western tournament bass angler. I can't tell you how many times having a specific worm makes all the difference. When I am fishing alone it's hard to tell,but when fishing with a partner and one is catching bass the other isn't and changes to the same worm and color starts catching bass and couldn't before the change, it's obvious.
When Zank, John Zankowski, first came out with cinnamon with blue neon vane the he color won nearly every tournament and Zank kept it a secret for a few years before making them for sale. Neon is a micro powder and the bass evidently can see it in deep water with low light. Cinnamon black vane worms are mediocre color until neon orange belly is added. To me we don't know how basses brain process the colors they see, there is more to it then cones & rods.
Tom
BassWhole! reply :
Excellent conversation. I've always been interested in the subject, both because of fishing, and because I'm "color blind". It doesn't mean I see in black and white, I can see colors, I just don't see as many shades, and they fade or blend much faster in dimming light than for "normal sighted" folks. I have trouble with red/green. Red looks orange (ish), white looks yellowish, and green looks whitetish, again this is mostly in dim light or at a distance in hazy conditions. If I shine a bright white light at something, then I can see most colors, additionally one eye sees less color and light than the other, I must have gotten a hook through it in a previous life...
Team9nine reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 11:11 AM, MIbassyaker said:However, even if bass cannot distinguish blue from black or white from yellow/chartreuse, they certainly can still detect differences in light intensity (and are very good at it), and various shades of blue may be greater intensity than black within part of the bass's detectable range, while yellow or chartreuse may have greater or lesser intensity than a shade of white.
On 5/1/2018 at 12:15 PM, MIbassyaker said:As far as we can tell, most instances of this sort of color deficit are abnormalities in what is known as the opponency stage of processing. When the cone cells in the eye respond to light, those responses are passed to a network of neurons that combine the responses and communicate them to brain. As @Team9nine says, there are three subsystems, each of which combines information from the cones in by calculating a difference signal. The difference signals have the effect of organizing color perception into opposite pairs.
If I'm reading it correctly, they did test for brightness/intensity and opponency. I believe this sums up their findings in that regard. If you haven't tracked down the study yet, shoot me a PM and I can forward in its entirety.
QuoteWe next asked whether bass use chromatic cues to select trained targets. The critical test here is whether bass trained to red and green could identify their target among a series of achromatic alternates. In these trials, bass were less likely to perform strikes, and bass were generally less likely to approach the pipettes. Despite this, bass trained to red and green were able to accurately select their training target among alternative gray targets. An analysis of the time spent associated with each target indicated that bass trained to red more often selected their training target compared with all gray targets except gray 1 (all targets except gray 1. Similarly, bass trained to green spent more time near their training target compared with all gray targets (P<0.05) with the exception gray 2 and black where the differences were marginal. Interestingly, unlike our prediction, bass did not select grays that were similar in brightness to their training colors during gray trails. Instead, bass trained to red and green selected targets that were brighter than their target color (gray 1 and gray 2).
In the bass system, chromatic cues, and particularly red, are easier to identify. Bass trained to red and green had high rates of approaches/strikes at their respective targets, and bass trained to other targets rarely mistakenly approached/struck at red or green. Bass trained to red and green were also able to identify their targets among a panel of achromatic cues. These results indicate that bass can more readily associate meaning to chromatic cues of high opponency. However, bass had difficulty associating meaning to achromatic cues (white, black, and for the bass system, yellow). These results are in keeping with a long literature in the field of visual psychology showing that chromatic cues are easier to learn for many species.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 9:38 PM, Team9nine said:
If I'm reading it correctly, they did test for brightness/intensity and opponency. I believe this sums up their findings in that regard. If you haven't tracked down the study yet, shoot me a PM and I can forward in its entirety.
yeah, I was able to locate the paper -- they tested for opponency with intensity held constant (or pretty close, at least). I expect when it comes to on-the-water experience seeming to contradict the findings of the study, a major culprit is variations in the intensity of different colors found on lures. Unlike the study, intensity of colors on your lures is not held constant when you're on the water changing from one to the other.
Comfortably Numb reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 8:26 AM, reason said:WTS/WTT
UV lures, will consider trade for anything green, red (or either chartreuse or white)...☺️
This belongs in the Flea Market section
WRB reply :
The late Bill Murphy (In Pursuit of Giant Bass) was a dental tech who made teeth and familiar with color to the extreme. He mentions in his book the color white changes more shades of white in various lighting then any other color. Looking at 10 white lures that all look alike each can change drastically under different types of lighting. Bass react to a specific white lure and avoid other white lures. There is more to bass vision then meets our eyes.
Tom
RichF reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 7:10 AM, Log Catcher said:I don't know about bass color perception. I can say I have never caught a bass on a green pumpkin jig. It usually either black and blue or pb&j colors.
95% of my jig bass come off green pumpkin, haha. I bet it has more to do with how often we use those specific colors rather than the color itself.
Cak920 reply :
That would be interesting to put to the test with things like senkos. Switch casts between solid black and black and blue and see if there’s a difference. If there would or wouldn’t be a consistent difference that would be cool to see first hand to prove this study
fissure_man reply :
In experiment #2 (no olfactory cues), bass trained to yellow or white often mixed up the two, which was expected under the initial dichromatic vision hypothesis. However, the bass trained to yellow also frequently approached/struck the blue target, and bass trained to white struck at both the black and blue targets. In both cases red and green were avoided. The physiological evidence doesn’t suggest there should be any difficulty in distinguishing yellow or white from black or blue, so this result was unexpected (I think).
Maybe(?) this was covered under the statement “These results indicate that bass can more readily associate meaning to chromatic cues of high opponency” – assuming that white and yellow are both achromatic to a bass, not only can they not easily distinguish them visually, they may also be less prone to “learn” or be trained using yellow or white cues. But doesn’t this take away a little of the significance of first conclusion? It leads to the question, to what degree were those bass visually mixing up white and yellow, versus just not knowing WTH they were doing beyond avoiding red/green?
It’s also interesting that the reverse was not true, i.e. bass trained to either black or blue did not tend to “mistakenly” approach/strike the white or chartreuse targets. Maybe there weren’t enough tests run in experiment #2 (4 tests x 2 tanks) to dive very deep into this. Any other theories?
Good thread.
Paul Roberts reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 5:57 AM, Team9nine said:Somewhat surprised no one has jumped on this one yet, but a study published just last month in the journal Current Zoology confirmed some interesting details on bass vision that have been suggested by others over the years. These included the following;
- Bass have dichromatic color vision, with green sensitive single cones and red sensitive twin cones, along with a rod cell. This has been compared to seeing the world through a yellow filter, which would give the poorest vision (color discrimination) toward the blue/purple end of the spectrum.
- As far as bass are concerned, chartreuse yellow is indistinguishable from white.
- Also, the behavioral assays indicated that blue is indistinguishable from black.
- Red and green were the most easily identified and distinguished colors.
- They saw little if any difference in outcomes when comparing Florida strain bass to northern strain fish.
Obviously, there are no absolutes in terms of making definitive statements on bass vision and what their interpretation in their little brains is. It can be especially difficult when comparing lab analysis to field conditions. One thing you can count on...manufacturers will keep selling and profiting off chartreuse-white and black-blue baits, while bass anglers will keep believing in these color combinations and continue to buy them. However, the accumulating science (going back to 1937) is beginning to suggest perhaps we've all been 'fooled.'
"Confirmed" is the word here as it corroborates past findings, which is important.
I see Ellis Loew is on the paper. I knew him; His office was down the hall from my lab back then. That was... 25+ years ago now. Yeesh!
BrackishBassin reply :
There’s only one thing to do when presented with information as ground breaking as this - buy every color combination offered in a specific lure type. You know, just in case.
Joshua Vandamm reply :
On 5/3/2018 at 3:14 AM, BrackishBassin said:There’s only one thing to do when presented with information as ground breaking as this - buy every color combination offered in a specific lure type. You know, just in case.
Too late! Lol
I'm taking the opposite approach. Red-orange, greens, black, white. Fish more, carry less.
On 5/1/2018 at 5:57 AM, Team9nine said:Somewhat surprised no one has jumped on this one yet, but a study published just last month in the journal Current Zoology confirmed some interesting details on bass vision that have been suggested by others over the years. These included the following;
- Bass have dichromatic color vision, with green sensitive single cones and red sensitive twin cones, along with a rod cell. This has been compared to seeing the world through a yellow filter, which would give the poorest vision (color discrimination) toward the blue/purple end of the spectrum.
- As far as bass are concerned, chartreuse yellow is indistinguishable from white.
- Also, the behavioral assays indicated that blue is indistinguishable from black.
- Red and green were the most easily identified and distinguished colors.
- They saw little if any difference in outcomes when comparing Florida strain bass to northern strain fish.
Obviously, there are no absolutes in terms of making definitive statements on bass vision and what their interpretation in their little brains is. It can be especially difficult when comparing lab analysis to field conditions. One thing you can count on...manufacturers will keep selling and profiting off chartreuse-white and black-blue baits, while bass anglers will keep believing in these color combinations and continue to buy them. However, the accumulating science (going back to 1937) is beginning to suggest perhaps we've all been 'fooled.'
Citation please? (Author, date)
Just a good habit to be in when presenting research.
Team9nine reply :
On 5/5/2018 at 10:10 AM, Joshua Vandamm said:Too late! Lol
I'm taking the opposite approach. Red-orange, greens, black, white. Fish more, carry less.
Citation please? (Author, date)
Just a good habit to be in when presenting research.
I'll do you one better and just give you the link to the entire paper ????
Seeing Red: Color Vision In the Largemouth Bass
WRB reply :
Thanks for the link, will read in the morning.
Tom
OCdockskipper reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 11:00 AM, WRB said:Aaron Martens is color blind or limited color blind.
Tom
And I have seen him bite red crankbaits in muddy water...
FishDewd reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 9:05 AM, NorthernBasser said:Jesus, just when I thought I finally had these buggers all figured out!
That'll never happen! :P
Joshua Vandamm reply :
On 5/2/2018 at 8:06 AM, Paul Roberts said:"Confirmed" is the word here as it corroborates past findings, which is important.
I see Ellis Loew is on the paper. I knew him; His office was down the hall from my lab back then. That was... 25+ years ago now. Yeesh!
Just curious how this squares with the assertion that essentially they ‘switch’ to monochromatic vision at night..?
N Florida Mike reply :
I fish moderately clear water for the most part. A little closer to clear than murky waters.
My best colors are:
• Watermelon with some kind of red in it.
• Other watermelon colors.
• Grape shad
• Tequila sunrise
• June bug
• Black grape
• Red shad
There are numerous color combos I don't use much, but occasionally catch a few on.
I rarely, if ever , catch anything on blue, black, yellow , or white.
punch reply :
I'm going to be using my red JJs magic a lot more now.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 5/26/2018 at 9:47 AM, Joshua Vandamm said:Just curious how this squares with the assertion that essentially they ‘switch’ to monochromatic vision at night..?
The switch happens because of a basic property of any rod- and cone-based visual system. We all experience a similar switch (or more accurately, a fade) to monochromacy at night for the same reasons.
Light intensity at night drops too low (i.e., below threshold) to stimulate a response from the cones, so the job of visual acuity is left only to the responses from the rods. The rods are more sensitive to low levels of light, but have very wide tuning curves, so their responses are not specific to particular wavelength inputs. Rods by themselves can't support distinctions between color, but they support perception of slight light-dark transitions and movement very well.
Paul Roberts reply :
On 5/26/2018 at 9:47 AM, Joshua Vandamm said:Just curious how this squares with the assertion that essentially they ‘switch’ to monochromatic vision at night..?
Rods are highly sensitive to light, but not to color. Rods are shielded during bright light. When light levels fall, rods migrate into place to take in existing light.
Joshua Vandamm reply :
On 5/27/2018 at 5:30 AM, Paul Roberts said:Rods are highly sensitive to light, but not to color. Rods are shielded during bright light. When light levels fall, rods migrate into place to take in existing light.
Thanks. As the cones are still there then they must be able to see color when there's enough light eg. moonlight. Similar to ourselves.
J Francho reply :
On 5/27/2018 at 5:30 AM, Paul Roberts said:Rods are highly sensitive to light, but not to color. Rods are shielded during bright light. When light levels fall, rods migrate into place to take in existing light.
I'm also pretty certain that bass can make that switch quicker than many baitfish, which explains their crepuscular feeding habits.
Paul Roberts reply :
On 6/1/2018 at 3:26 AM, Joshua Vandamm said:Thanks. As the cones are still there then they must be able to see color when there's enough light eg. moonlight. Similar to ourselves.
I don't know the threshold levels needed for color vision; It's probably been studied in related fishes, if not bass. Certainly the longer wavelengths (Red end), which bass retina's are most sensitive to (being shallow water dwellers), would be filtered out by water as light diminishes. Their other peak, in the green range, would be more useful in low light I suppose, if anything bc it can penetrate water a bit further. FYI: The explanation for the two cone peaks is that green maximizes background light in algal and vegetated waters. The red offers a direct contrast that makes camouflaged creatures pop out against the green background.
I'm not sure color vision is at all required at night for bass to feed effectively though. Cones really do require a lot of light. And color vision is different than grayscale vision. I for one cannot see color under even the brightest moonlight. And I've had a number of interesting experiences under full moon lighting -in places quite familiar to me- that suggest that my rod vision (rods are a lot more sensitive to light than cones) is all about contrast in grayscale -edges and textures popping out instead of color patch differences. I see things under moonlight that are lost to me in daylight. Color is great, but it's like a veneer that glosses over lots of details, details that jump out under moonlight. I've called it, "seeing like a deer".
Just some thoughts.
On 6/1/2018 at 3:55 AM, J Francho said:I'm also pretty certain that bass can make that switch quicker than many baitfish, which explains their crepuscular feeding habits.
There's been some research that backs this up. Part of it has to do with simply having larger eyes, but I think that the shift is quicker for bass than some prey fishes too.
Joshua Vandamm reply :
On 6/1/2018 at 5:33 AM, Paul Roberts said:I don't know the threshold levels needed for color vision; It's probably been studied in related fishes, if not bass. Certainly the longer wavelengths (Red end), which bass retina's are most sensitive to (being shallow water dwellers), would be filtered out by water as light diminishes. Their other peak, in the green range, would be more useful in low light I suppose, if anything bc it can penetrate water a bit further. FYI: The explanation for the two cone peaks is that green maximizes background light in algal and vegetated waters. The red offers a direct contrast that makes camouflaged creatures pop out against the green background.
I'm not sure color vision is at all required at night for bass to feed effectively though. Cones really do require a lot of light. And color vision is different than grayscale vision. I for one cannot see color under even the brightest moonlight. And I've had a number of interesting experiences under full moon lighting -in places quite familiar to me- that suggest that my rod vision (rods are a lot more sensitive to light than cones) is all about contrast in grayscale -edges and textures popping out instead of color patch differences. I see things under moonlight that are lost to me in daylight. Color is great, but it's like a veneer that glosses over lots of details, details that jump out under moonlight. I've called it, "seeing like a deer".
Just some thoughts.
There's been some research that backs this up. Part of it has to do with simply having larger eyes, but I think that the shift is quicker for bass than some prey fishes too.
The larger eyes note is interesting. I've always suspected larger bass have better vision than smaller ones for this reason.
...Which nicely circles around to 'highlight' the whole point of night fishing. Bigger bass feed more at night. Some exclusively at night.
SloppyJ reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 6:22 AM, frosty said:That’s it, all my baits are either red or green! Seriously though, I think on my next order of jigs I’m going to find one red and one green and give them a shot.
On 5/1/2018 at 7:10 AM, Log Catcher said:I don't know about bass color perception. I can say I have never caught a bass on a green pumpkin jig. It usually either black and blue or pb&j colors.
Wow to both of you. My jig color is made up of about 90% watermelon or pumpkin. If I want a different color "pop", I'll pick that up in the trailer. The candy colored rage baits have been solid for me.
Mobasser reply :
Thanks for sharing! Very interested in this info also.
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 5/5/2018 at 10:10 AM, Joshua Vandamm said:Citation please? (Author, date)
Just a good habit to be in when presenting research.
CBE or CSE Format?
Just kidding, I'm just now reading this article. Good read.
BassWhole! reply :
Sure, all the science behind this is informative, useful and interesting, but it doesn't follow that because vision is more acute around a certain band of the spectrum that the corresponding colors will be more productive. I think most experienced anglers will agree that in clear water, matching the forage and or surroundings is the way to go, where as in low vis conditions the more visible colors like chart, and white or dark contrasting colors are more appropriate. With a few exceptions when color matters significantly, I'm usually fishing a bright color, dark color or forage color. I'm almost sure that I can fill my bathtub and get a couple of bites with watermelon candy, and I'm sure most have a confidence color like that. I will add that with hard baits, I'm a big follower of a small accent of red, orange or chartreuse, I've seen it make a difference enough many times. I'll leave the how and whys to the biologists, ichthyologists, and other scientists.
thinkingredneck reply :
It seems reasonable that Bass have adapted to find forage in their environment, so forage colors should work. That doesn't explain my recent success with merthiolate.
FryDog62 reply :
On 5/1/2018 at 5:57 AM, Team9nine said:Somewhat surprised no one has jumped on this one yet, but a study published just last month in the journal Current Zoology confirmed some interesting details on bass vision that have been suggested by others over the years. These included the following;
- Bass have dichromatic color vision, with green sensitive single cones and red sensitive twin cones, along with a rod cell. This has been compared to seeing the world through a yellow filter, which would give the poorest vision (color discrimination) toward the blue/purple end of the spectrum.
- As far as bass are concerned, chartreuse yellow is indistinguishable from white.
- Also, the behavioral assays indicated that blue is indistinguishable from black.
- Red and green were the most easily identified and distinguished colors.
- They saw little if any difference in outcomes when comparing Florida strain bass to northern strain fish.
Obviously, there are no absolutes in terms of making definitive statements on bass vision and what their interpretation in their little brains is. It can be especially difficult when comparing lab analysis to field conditions. One thing you can count on...manufacturers will keep selling and profiting off chartreuse-white and black-blue baits, while bass anglers will keep believing in these color combinations and continue to buy them. However, the accumulating science (going back to 1937) is beginning to suggest perhaps we've all been 'fooled.'
Came across this older thread and wanted to ask the question - if there are differences in color perception between largemouth and smallmouth?
Smallmouth tend to be more active sight feeders, which poses the question if their eyesight is better and/or they see more color variations?
J Francho reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 2:22 AM, FryDog62 said:Smallmouth tend to be more active sight feeders, which poses the question if their eyesight is better and/or they see more color variations?
They typically occupy clearer waters, so it's a fair point.
FryDog62 reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 2:45 AM, J Francho said:They typically occupy clearer waters, so it's a fair point.
It may be mostly marketing, but I sure see a lot more bright colors in the lures/plastics designed for smallmouth fishing. You wonder if its for semi-scientific reasons or just to catch fishermen and sell more product...
J Francho reply :
I look at it this way: if you don't have a color, and someone else does, then you are missing sales. Some angler is going to buy another brand, even though they might like your bait, because you don't have "their color." GYCB seems to fall in this category. They have a billion colors. I only carry 2-3 colors of senkos, and I might buy another brand if they had smoke purple flake, and GYCB did not.
cgolf reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 3:24 AM, FryDog62 said:It may be mostly marketing, but I sure see a lot more bright colors in the lures/plastics designed for smallmouth fishing. You wonder if its for semi-scientific reasons or just to catch fishermen and sell more product...
I think some of it is marketing. I have about 15 years of data from a dirty water river I fish for smallmouth and the color selection is all over the place. There really isn't a color that stands above all as outproducing others. Used a lot of watermelon based colors especially water red, pearls, some chartreuse based baits, and some green pumpkin baits with various flake colors.
A few baits have stood out though, Yum small Crawbug, Rage Menace family, and Bandit 100. While there are times color can be huge, most times it doesn't seem to matter all that much.
I also have 9 years of clear water largie fishing data, and there plastics run the water red/water candy to smoke based colors. Some outliers though like rage Hard Candy which is an amazing color. This lake color does matter depending on how the light is hitting the fish, but as long as I have those colors with me I am covered depending on the situation.
Probably an OCD thing on my part, but these lists help me to combat the bait monkey and not buy every color in the book;)
J Francho reply :
Out of curiosity, how many consider sun angle before color when fishing clear lakes?
cgolf reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 8:42 PM, J Francho said:Out of curiosity, how many consider sun angle before color when fishing clear lakes?
I do a lot. On a lake where bluegill is the main forage, I have found that water red works best on overcast days and when the water is choppy which breaks up the light getting to the fish. During these times it is very difficult to get bit with smoke colored baits.
When the water is relatively flat and the sun is up the opposite is true and smoke colored baits rule the day and water red is tough to get a bit on.
This makes some sense if you look at a gill on an overcast day, it looks mostly green. When the sun is shining down on it you see the metallic colors of the fish and a smoke red or smoke purple tube would match it pretty closely. Not sure if this is why, but after years of this happening, this was the best explanation I could come up with.
I have found a couple of colors Ron's Craw and Motor Red that seem universal so there is some wiggle room. I have been having good luck with the menace in Hard Candy the last couple of years, but haven't gotten to try it on flat water with sun, because it has been windy on those trips, so not sure if that will be a universal color.
J Francho reply :
I was fishing for thoughts on casting angles, but your observation is interesting.
Basswhippa reply :
This is one of the more interesting and informative posts I have seen on BR, or any bass forum. Where classroom science meets real world practices and experiences.
NittyGrittyBoy reply :
So why cant I buy a GY senko in Methiolate?
billmac reply :
This is really interesting. I was just about to post a question about narrowing your choices to 2 basic colors (or color ranges). I know everyone raves about green pumpkin and I have several lures in that color, but I've never really used red colors, especially in plastics. I've always been a big fan of yellow / chartreuse.
Just so I'm interpreting the thread correctly: Bass most easily see green and red?
Mobasser reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 8:42 PM, J Francho said:Out of curiosity, how many consider sun angle before color when fishing clear lakes?
Good point J Francho. You may have your boat sitting in the sun, but casting into shaded areas. It makes a difference in how colors look to us. To the bass we still don't know
J Francho reply :
On 1/22/2020 at 10:58 PM, Mobasser said:Good point J Francho. You may have your boat sitting in the sun, but casting into shaded areas. It makes a difference in how colors look to us. To the bass we still don't know
Not even colors, just shadows. I'd consider this first before color. Presentation before color, always. Maybe though, the right color trumps presentation? I wouldn't know how to tell.
Mobasser reply :
Day in and day out, I still seem to catch the most fish by fishing lighter colors on sunny days, and darker colors on overcast days.
On 1/22/2020 at 11:01 PM, J Francho said:Not even colors, just shadows. I'd consider this first before color. Presentation before color, always. Maybe though, the right color trumps presentation? I wouldn't know how to tell.
Me niether, but I'd bet most guys would say presentation over color.
J Francho reply :
There's another thread about DS baits, and black was mentioned as a "stained water bait." Black works in gin clear water, quite well. Especially if the bait is leech shaped.
Mobasser reply :
On 1/22/2020 at 11:06 PM, J Francho said:There's another thread about DS baits, and black was mentioned as a "stained water bait." Black works in gin clear water, quite well. Especially if the bait is leech shaped.
Agree. Solid black seems to be the forgotten color now days. The craws around my area are brown, sometimes almost black, and at times with blue craws and blue streaks in the body. I used to try and match this as best I could. But, I know a guy who fishes a lighter green craw bait almost all the time, and catches lots of bass here too. It's a weird thing. I think it pays to carry a few different colors in jigs/plastics from light to dark, but I don't think you need 40 colors of each. A grape worm is still my all around favorite here. If I fished in another area, it may change? Some colors seem kind of universal, others not so much
Mobasser reply :
Years ago, I could catch lots of bass here on a chartreuse 4" grub. Now, it never works. The same with worms with bright green tails. They seem to scare more fish away than catch them. Grape, Blue, browns and darker subdued colors work the best here for me. Green pumpkin is very popular with lots of guys, but is probably my least favorite. I've given up on it
fin reply :
On 1/22/2020 at 10:54 PM, billmac said:
Just so I'm interpreting the thread correctly: Bass most easily see green and red?
I think it’s saying they can tell the difference between those two colors better, not that they can see those two colors better than other colors. To a bass, red may look like black and green may look like white. (I’m making that part up myself just to make a point) The two colors look very different to them.
The info in the report is really interesting, but I think it’s hard to take the results and apply them to fishing. How a color appears in certain water and light conditions is just as important as how it appears to the fish in perfect conditions.
The report also says bass see white and chartreuse as being basically the same color. I don’t think you’ll find many fishermen that think those two colors are the same.
Ghostshad reply :
I listen to Major League Fishing. They catch 100 of bass .
Caliyak reply :
On 1/24/2020 at 10:32 PM, Ghostshad said:I listen to Major League Fishing. They catch 100 of bass .
For 2020 MFL, I am doing a journal of baits and colors used to win the events. I was shocked to see what they were using last year. We, at times, are overdoing it. These guys keep it simple. Try it, it's interesting to see.
jimmyjoe reply :
On 1/17/2020 at 8:42 PM, J Francho said:Out of curiosity, how many consider sun angle before color when fishing clear lakes?
The time I really pay attention to sun angle is when I'm using in-line spinners, and even then when the sun is lower in the sky. Whether I'm using a Mepps Aglia (wide swing), an Aglia Long (narrower swing) or a Roostertail (narrowest swing), I try to retrieve the spinner at an angle so that the sun is reflected (in my mind's eye) off the blade and into the target area I think holds fish. It has worked for me for several years, but only when the spinner is shallower than the fish.
The most obvious place that this works is a place in the river near me that has a cutoff (ledge). The spine of the cutoff runs ESE on the northern part, curving around to SSE on the southern part. Water depth is 3-4 feet on the east side, forming a flat. Deep side of the cutoff is 8-12 feet deep.
At 4:00-6:00PM, an Aglia Long retrieved directly over the southern leg of the cutoff produces fish. They rise up from the deeper water. If I move the spinner to a parallel track 4 feet east, I get nothing. Why? Because the flash or glint off the blade is being blocked by the lip of the cutoff. If I move my retrieval track too far to the west, out over open water, I get nothing, because the glint off the blade is aimed at open water, but the bass are holding just under the lip of that cutoff.
If I move to the west and retrieve the Aglia Long from ESE to WNW on the upper leg, I get nothing. If I switch to an Aglia, I get fish. The higher reflection angle "bounces" down to where the fish are. If I move back east and try the southern leg again using the Aglia, I get nothing. The reflected angle is "coned" too far ahead.
At this time of day, retrieving the spinners lower in the water column on the deep side produces nothing, or next to nothing. At noon, however, it can be productive. Higher sun angle.
Another fisherman showed this to me several years ago. He always caught bass off this ledge when other fishermen didn't. So I did what he taught me, and I caught fish. I then taught two friends of mine, showing them what I was doing, and now they catch fish there the same way I do.
When the river is really muddy, this system doesn't work. I use other lure types.
This last year, I tried this in a lake I frequent. It seems to work, but I use spinners in this particular lake much less frequently than other lures. I guess I'll have to fish it another year and see. ???? jj
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