After getting into bass fishing and discovering the wonders of braided superlines, I started to really dislike monofilament. I love mono's easy knot-tying qualities, slack line feedback and cost, but that's where it ends. The stretch is the deal-breaker for me. I love the sensitive rods I've invested in and using them with braid lets me feel everything going on at the end of the line. I've even spooled my light and ultralight spinning set-ups with braid.
But for cranking, knowledgeable fishermen recommend mono (or fluoro?). I tried using mono on my nice new Kistler KLX Crank, Rip and Twitch rod and it feels like I'm fishing with a rubber band. I'm sure the slack-line feedback of mono would be an advantage some times, but I crank a lot more than I rip or twitch.
Should I just try to get used to mono again? What are your opinions on the very best non-braided line for cranking? Does anyone crank with braid?
Thanks for any insights and advice,
Bob
The deal breaker with stretch is what you hate but what's great for treble baits
I used braid on my cranking rod last year. I had no problems with it. I switched this year to mono just to try it. I don't mind it. I'm using Sunline super natural and it's been working great so far. I'd say try both and see what you like. It seems like people use all different types of line and do fine as long as they have the right rod and set their drag right.
I believe your Kistler is rated as moderate fast action. That & a lighter drag setting should work fine with braid. The smaller dia. braid will give you better depth than mono or fluoro. Try it.
I've been using braid with crankbaits for a few years now, I love it.
On 10/6/2015 at 6:35 AM, Bruce424 said:The deal breaker with stretch is what you hate but what's great for treble baits
That's why I bought the slower action Kistler... for treble hook baits.
On 10/6/2015 at 6:46 AM, Dwight Hottle said:I believe your Kistler is rated as moderate fast action. That & a lighter drag setting should work fine with braid. The smaller dia. braid will give you better depth than mono or fluoro. Try it.
You're correct Dwight, it's a Moderate-Fast. I guess if I step down to 30lb. braid, the small diameter will offset the buoyancy of the line and keep the crank baits running somewhere near where they are rated. I fish primarily in shallow water and getting lots of depth has never been an issue for me anyway...
Thanks for the replies, gentlemen!
Bob
On 10/6/2015 at 6:46 AM, Dwight Hottle said:I believe your Kistler is rated as moderate fast action. That & a lighter drag setting should work fine with braid. The smaller dia. braid will give you better depth than mono or fluoro. Try it.
Should work ok. My brother-in-law in Florida fishes spinning rods only, and spooled with 40# PP only. He doesn't seem to lose very many. A worm and #11 Floating Rapala are nearly the only baits he uses.
EDIT: Can't say for sure, but I don't think he has a MH rod.
Since switching to braid I don't like the rubber and feel of mono either. That said I do use it in my cranking rod, the stretch doesn't bother me because I'm not slamming home on the hook set. With cranks I use mono for the extra give, I don't even set the hook once I feel the weight of the fish I just lift the rod and put some pressure on it
I use nothing but copolymer way less stretch over plain mono. Excalibur Silver Thread Copolymer line has served me well for decades now. No one encounters more abrasions from the bottom, rocks than a shore fisherman.(me).
I use other brands of copolymer line but use more Excalibur silver thread. They had a test of bending, abrasions on there website against other lines at that time and Excalibur excelled.
The only difference between Excalibur silver thread and the other brands of copolymer line is I find the others are stiffer and hard to tie knots.
Until I started using fluorocarbon, I used Silver Thread on everything but my frog rod. It has less stretch than mono and I think it casts/handles great. Btw, I fish in really clear water.
I use 8lb diameter braid on my kistler helium cranking rod and have no issues. I actually seem to lose less fish than when i used mono or flouro on it.
I use braid, its hard to use lipless and lipped crankbaits with stretchy line with all the grass around here braid helps you rip it free.
if you're using a cranking rod, especially glass or composite, braid will work just fine. Better to have give in your rod than in your line, especially on a long, cranking stick cast. You get better sensitivity and depth than with mono. Braid doesn't float, it suspends underwater.
I don't think line visibility makes any difference with cranks. Maybe jerkbaits, in which case tie on a few feet of fluoro leader. If you're cranking around rip rap, tie on a few feet of fluoro leader. Other than that, straight braid is where it's at, especially for pricey baits with upgraded hooks, etc.
My knowledge on the matter is solely limited to internet research, but I do have a new cranking rod coming with a reel already in my possession, and I plan to use P-Line CXX co-polymer. From what I've read it seems like a good compromise; a little stretchier than braid, but not as much as mono, and not as prone to memory problems as fluorocarbon.
1. What is the average casting distance you make using braid?On 10/6/2015 at 6:24 AM, desmobob said:After getting into bass fishing and discovering the wonders of braided superlines, I started to really dislike monofilament. I love mono's easy knot-tying qualities, slack line feedback and cost, but that's where it ends. The stretch is the deal-breaker for me. I love the sensitive rods I've invested in and using them with braid lets me feel everything going on at the end of the line. I've even spooled my light and ultralight spinning set-ups with braid.
But for cranking, knowledgeable fishermen recommend mono (or fluoro?). I tried using mono on my nice new Kistler KLX Crank, Rip and Twitch rod and it feels like I'm fishing with a rubber band. I'm sure the slack-line feedback of mono would be an advantage some times, but I crank a lot more than I rip or twitch.
Should I just try to get used to mono again? What are your opinions on the very best non-braided line for cranking? Does anyone crank with braid?
Thanks for any insights and advice,
Bob
2. What rod are you using?
3. How much force is required to stretch 15 lb test big Game?
1A. Casting deep diving crankbait require long cast to achieve maximum diving depth, at 100'.
2A. Crankbait rods are moderate action, usually heavy for big deep divers, MH for smaller deep divers.
3A. A heavy moderate action crankbait rod can apply about 4 lbs of force before it bottoms out of power. 15 lb big game yield strength is greater than 5 lbs before it can begin to stretch.
What many anglers think is line stretch is more than likely line drag coefficient going through the water do to it's larger diameter and higher drag pressure creating a bow in the line.
I used 12 lb Big Game mono for years on crankbaits, works great, casts very well and is inexpensive enough to change it often.
Tom
I never liked mono to start and once I used braid I was set. 3 rods of mine have braid, one has fc.
Something I'm trying to understand better:
Rod action, drag, and line stretch -- most advice i see about recommendations for particular lures or techniques (especially crankbaits and other treble lures) seem to treat these three factors as compensating for each other. That is, while they are not the same thing (they originate from properties of the rod, reel and line, respectively) they are treated as having similar practical effects on hooking and fighting fish. So i hear: "braid is fine for crankbaits if I loosen the drag and use a moderate action rod." Or, "a faster action rods is fine for cranking as long as there's some stretch in the line and looser drag." I hear this sort of compensatory argument a lot -- is it really the case that these three factors are as interchangeable as they are made out to be?
I'm skeptical of that, although I do treat them that way -- for crankbaits I most often use braid on a mod-fast rod with the drag pretty loose, and the rest of the time mono on a fast action rod with the drag a little tighter but still somewhat loose. Many people seem to express a preference for softer action in the rod, rather than looser drag or using stretchier line, but I can't tell if that's a true preference based on Reasons, or if it's the downstream effect of a very effective marketing campaign to get me to buy a shiny new moderate action cranking rod.
I am a braid fan but on cranking I go fluro mainly so less stretch than mono but also I am usually looking for max depth out of my cranks.
Try Sunline Super Natural, I think you will like it for cranking.
Sunline reaction FC. Some stretch, small diameter, sensitive and abrasion resistent.
I use mon except for heavy flipping and frogs which are the only techniques that I use braid with. That said, I've tried a bunch of lines and Big Game is one of my favorites but if stretch concerns you, try Spider Wire Ultimate Mono, the stuff is as thin as fluorocarbon and it has very little stretch, I 'm with WRB in that Big Game requires a lot of force to make stretch but this ultimate mono feels like it has almost no stretch. Great knot strength, abrasion resistance, and strength with less stretch than any other mono I ever used before.
On 10/6/2015 at 7:04 AM, bigbill said:I use nothing but copolymer way less stretch over plain mono. Excalibur Silver Thread Copolymer line has served me well for decades now.
This ^^^
I was a huge braid guy that's almost entirely switched to copolys. Try some 8-12lb yozuri hybrid, awesome line.
I use 10# Sufix Siege for my cranking. I might try Senshi next season as I'm using it on some reels with good success. I don't break off often but do re-tie often. A trade off but I like lighter line for getting baits down deeper.
I stick with the mono because my crankin' and my topwater baitcast rods are one in the same. But, honestly, where I fish, big cranks are rarely used-too weedy.
I have another 7' M-mod-fast spinning combo that I use for small treble lures like jerkbaits that's spooled with 20# Power Pro braid. Its action is forgiving enough for subduing a bass trying to throw trebles at the boat. I landed a 5lb 3oz on a Rat L Trap with it, no problem.
I don't like mono/nylon for cranking, I use flouro. I like flouro because I have better feel on my bait, stretch doesn't really factor for me.
I mainly fish p-line cxx for my cranking with a little flouro added in sometimes. Only use braid for frogging. The yozuri hybrids pretty good as well but I'm a p- line fan and seagar for my flouro needs
You don´t need to fish crank baits with NYLON if you don´t want to, what you gotta do is back down the drag, there you go, problem solved.
On 10/6/2015 at 10:32 AM, WRB said:1. What is the average casting distance you make using braid?
2. What rod are you using?
3. How much force is required to stretch 15 lb test big Game?
1A. Casting deep diving crankbait require long cast to achieve maximum diving depth, at 100'.
2A. Crankbait rods are moderate action, usually heavy for big deep divers, MH for smaller deep divers.
3A. A heavy moderate action crankbait rod can apply about 4 lbs of force before it bottoms out of power. 15 lb big game yield strength is greater than 5 lbs before it can begin to stretch.
What many anglers think is line stretch is more than likely line drag coefficient going through the water do to it's larger diameter and higher drag pressure creating a bow in the line.
I used 12 lb Big Game mono for years on crankbaits, works great, casts very well and is inexpensive enough to change it often.
Tom
Good food for thought, Tom. I think you hit the nail on the head with line bow. I was using an old reel on the new cranking rod until a new reel arrives, and I'm not sure what pound-test mono was on it. I'm betting it may have been heavier than I need for cranking and thicker line means more bowing.
I'll try some 12 lb. mono, co-polymer or fluoro. I've been given plenty of recommendations for products to try by the good folks here on the forums. Thanks for all the advice! I hope it get a chance to try out a few lines before the water freezes up here in the northeast!
Tight lines,
Bob
On 10/6/2015 at 9:22 AM, Evan K said:My knowledge on the matter is solely limited to internet research, but I do have a new cranking rod coming with a reel already in my possession, and I plan to use P-Line CXX co-polymer. From what I've read it seems like a good compromise; a little stretchier than braid, but not as much as mono, and not as prone to memory problems as fluorocarbon.
CXX not having as much memory as fluro is not true. It is super hard and dense and will develop crazy memory. It is still my most used line as it has very minimal stretch and amazing sensitivity. I do plan to eventually switch to mostly Tatsu at some point though.
I would recommend copolymer line for cranking. I'm sure braid would work fine with the right rod, but I like using copolymer like pline floroclear or Cx. Not much stretch on either but really easy to cast. I would not recommend CXX because it is very dense and has bad memory.
On 10/7/2015 at 7:39 AM, hatrix said:CXX not having as much memory as fluro is not true. It is super hard and dense and will develop crazy memory. It is still my most used line as it has very minimal stretch and amazing sensitivity. I do plan to eventually switch to mostly Tatsu at some point though.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I guess I will spool it up and see how it performs.
I use 20lb Sniper FC for my crankbaits, works like a charm, same stuff one of the guys at the local tackle store uses and he fishes crankbaits almost exclusively.
Paul Elias, Mark Davis, & David Fritts all use 12# mono & 5.1:1 gear ratio!
I crank with either 20 or 30lb braid. Depending on what I want from my bait I'll put a leader on it. If I want a deeper bait, 12lb fc, if it it's going to be shallower, then 12lb mono. If I'm going to be throwing a trap style bait or a squarebill into cover I bump it up to 15 or 17lb fc. Think it was said before, just back the drag off and I use moderate to Moderate fast rods. I don't use straight mono or fc on anything anymore.
On 10/6/2015 at 11:56 AM, MIbassyaker said:Something I'm trying to understand better:
Rod action, drag, and line stretch -- most advice i see about recommendations for particular lures or techniques (especially crankbaits and other treble lures) seem to treat these three factors as compensating for each other. That is, while they are not the same thing (they originate from properties of the rod, reel and line, respectively) they are treated as having similar practical effects on hooking and fighting fish. So i hear: "braid is fine for crankbaits if I loosen the drag and use a moderate action rod." Or, "a faster action rods is fine for cranking as long as there's some stretch in the line and looser drag." I hear this sort of compensatory argument a lot -- is it really the case that these three factors are as interchangeable as they are made out to be?
I'm skeptical of that, although I do treat them that way -- for crankbaits I most often use braid on a mod-fast rod with the drag pretty loose, and the rest of the time mono on a fast action rod with the drag a little tighter but still somewhat loose. Many people seem to express a preference for softer action in the rod, rather than looser drag or using stretchier line, but I can't tell if that's a true preference based on Reasons, or if it's the downstream effect of a very effective marketing campaign to get me to buy a shiny new moderate action cranking rod.
I have a few dedicated crankbait rods that are moderate action and I use braid. I do like you do, have a lighter drag setting, but the main benefit I find in the moderate action rod is that on that first strike it absorbs the brunt of the impact and then the constant pressure applied to the fish. A fast action rod doesn't have the same flex which IMO could result in ripping hooks out even with a soft drag. I used to fish my A-rigs on a MH 7'6" Fast action rod and I would end up pulling fish off. Switched to a 7'6" MH crankbait rod with the softer action and my lose ratio when down by over 80%. Same reel, same drag, same baits. That observation right there opened my eyes to the benefits of a "cranking" set up. I'd rather use the right rod/tool ment to crank then try and make something else work. Just my opinion. Hope that kinda helps explain.
I've tried braid and floro its mono 100 percent of the time for me .Berkely xl , xt or Big game .
Well, I just rummaged through my tackle and found a new spool of 12-lb. Trilene XL. I just spooled up a new Orra 2 Winch and put it on my Kistler KLX 7' MHMod.Fast cranking rod. Hopefull, I'll get a chance to try it out this weekend. I'll stock up with a better selection of lines so I can make some comparisons in the future.
Thanks again very much for all the insights and advice. I appreciate it!
Tight lines,
Bob