Frog setup for ~$250 2024

biggiesmalls reply :

Looking to put together a setup only for frogs. Would I be better suited with a North Fork Composites blank turned into a custom rod ($200 blank on sale for $100, plus other components). Or, should I just buy a rod. I can build it myself so don't have to pay for labor. The blank is 7'3" 14-30 lb 3/8-2 oz fast. Or should I go up to maybe 7'4", 5", 6", or even higher? More powerful or less? Looking to get the "perfect" frog-only rod for the perfect price.

Then where should I go for the reel? Maybe a nicer Lew's or something. Magnesium speed spools on eBay for a little under $200, maybe I could scrounge together a bit more money and go with one of those?

Then what braid? 30, 40, 50, 65?

Let me know what you think. Tight lines

Drew

Tywithay reply :

Any time you can go custom, I think it's a better choice. You get the rod the way you want it, instead of trying to find something on a shelf that might fit your needs. As far as reel, I will forever recommend the 8.1 Tatula SV for frogging. I don't know if there's a better reel for that purpose, at any price.

optimator reply :

It sounds like you already have the rod figured out. I picked up a Daiwa Fuego CT 8.1 yesterday. It's a d**n good reel for the price. It actually casts further than my SV TW with the same baits, line and rod. It's going on a Fury 735 for my frog rod.

biggiesmalls reply :

Alright, sounds like a custom 7'3" HF rod is the way to go. No votes for 7'4", 7'5", 7'6", or higher? I am a bit on the "vertically challenged" side of things, so I don't think going much longer gives me too much of an advantage over the negatives that will come with it.

Love the looks of the Tatula SV, might just have to scrounge together a bit more money for one of them. Or shop around, if I could get one for $150 I'd be solid. That would be a $300-$350 setup, but still it'd be great. And since I'm selling off tons of old tackle, these are paying for themselves essentially. The money is just going from stuff that's sitting around to stuff that'll actually be used, so it's no biggie.

Drew

Tywithay reply :

On 4/2/2018 at 8:24 AM, biggiesmalls said:

Alright, sounds like a custom 7'3" HF rod is the way to go. No votes for 7'4", 7'5", 7'6", or higher? I am a bit on the "vertically challenged" side of things, so I don't think going much longer gives me too much of an advantage over the negatives that will come with it.

Love the looks of the Tatula SV, might just have to scrounge together a bit more money for one of them. Or shop around, if I could get one for $150 I'd be solid. That would be a $300-$350 setup, but still it'd be great. And since I'm selling off tons of old tackle, these are paying for themselves essentially. The money is just going from stuff that's sitting around to stuff that'll actually be used, so it's no biggie.

Drew

If you look around on the auction site, you can get the Tatula SV for $130ish most of the time.

biggiesmalls reply :

On 4/2/2018 at 8:29 AM, Tywithay said:

If you look around on the auction site, you can get the Tatula SV for $130ish most of the time.

Thanks man. Is the 8.1:1 purple? If so, might have to go with some purple wraps on the rod

Ordering the blank as I type this - also a 7'6" 8-15 lb XF for the salt too

Drew

new2BC4bass reply :

On 4/2/2018 at 7:38 AM, optimator said:

It sounds like you already have the rod figured out. I picked up a Daiwa Fuego CT 8.1 yesterday. It's a d**n good reel for the price. It actually casts further than my SV TW with the same baits, line and rod. It's going on a Fury 735 for my frog rod.

Not a surprise. The SV spools are hard to backlash for a reason. The Fuego CT got a "Best Value" rating from TT.

Tywithay reply :

On 4/2/2018 at 9:03 AM, biggiesmalls said:

Thanks man. Is the 8.1:1 purple? If so, might have to go with some purple wraps on the rod

Ordering the blank as I type this - also a 7'6" 8-15 lb XF for the salt too

Drew

The 8.1:1 does indeed have the purple.

iceintheveins reply :

Seven ratio Curado with an Abu Veritas 7'H. Fifty to sixty five pound braid.

Riazuli reply :

I went the opposite route for a frog reel in terms of gear ratio - I got a revo x winch at 5.4:1 for muscling fish out of heavy vegetation and slop. Some or most are actually likely to be snakehead where I'm mainly kayak fishing, so the 5.4 made sense to me as I've heard horror stories of people burning gears on high ratio reels while try to rip fish out of heavy cover. Seeing as some of the snakehead I'm catching are not unlikely to go over 10 pounds, the low gear ratio was a no brainer. Hope the rod you're making turns out nicely. With the price of blanks you mentioned and your 250 budget, you might be able to find a revo winch (higher end version) on sale and possibly go a little over your budget. The revo x version will surely keep you within your budget - just got mine for 70 on eBay with a coupon (paired with Okuma TCS frog rod). I might have gone higher end if I was thinking I'd be catching more bass on the rod, but with more snakehead on the line this is more of a beat up setup that I'll likely upgrade if it doesn't hold up to the task. Mind you, I'm also a fan of the tatula sv, and recently purchased that for another setup, but I think the revo and revo x winch (along with some other Abu reels) are some of the only freshwater low profile baitcasters with that low of a gear ratio - Saltwater baitcasters tend to offer low ratios.

I went with 50 lb braid as I've heard it's better for cutting through pads and such than 65. I wouldn't go under 50 for frogging. H/F (or mag heavy /extra fast) is the way to go for frogging.

Boomstick reply :

I plan on picking up the following, which should run $220 on Amazon on the right day.

Tatula CT, 8:1 ratio

Tatula 7'4" Frogging Rod

Given you are looking at making your own rod, that gives you some freedom in the reel.

biggiesmalls reply :

Okay, the rod is set - ordered the blank last night. Going to wait until I've got a bit more spare spending money available to get the reel, but looks like I just might get the Tatula SV 8.1:1.

Is the casting distance going to be an issue with this reel? And, will it hold enough 50-65 lb braid to work well? Not using this setup for anything other than throwing hollow-body frogs.

@Tywithay

Thanks,

Drew

Tywithay reply :

On 4/3/2018 at 12:13 AM, biggiesmalls said:

Okay, the rod is set - ordered the blank last night. Going to wait until I've got a bit more spare spending money available to get the reel, but looks like I just might get the Tatula SV 8.1:1.

Is the casting distance going to be an issue with this reel? And, will it hold enough 50-65 lb braid to work well? Not using this setup for anything other than throwing hollow-body frogs.

@Tywithay

Thanks,

Drew

I've had no issues with distance with either of mine, especially with frogs. I have a couple reels that cast further and several that don't cast as far, but the SV spool makes the Tatula one of the most consistent and easy to cast, regardless of conditions. I use 50lb braid on my frogging setup. I think the slightly thinner diameter (compared to 65lb) helps it cut through vegetation more easily. The Tatula SV will hold roughly 115 yards of 50lb sufix 832, based on my spooling station counter thing. Comparing diameters, I'd say it'd be around 90 yards of 65lb. Either should be plenty. I know I can't throw a frog that far, nor do I want to, as I'm usually aiming at a spot, not a distance.

biggiesmalls reply :

Alright, so the Tatula SV wins. Now just to decide 50 or 65 braid, sounds like 50 is a little better in terms of lb test and such.

Drew

Riazuli reply :

On 4/3/2018 at 5:30 AM, biggiesmalls said:

Alright, so the Tatula SV wins. Now just to decide 50 or 65 braid, sounds like 50 is a little better in terms of lb test and such.

Drew

Check out my recent thread asking about this. Lots of great info in there.

Disregard the top one... That went to a single comment on the 2nd page and won't delete. You can see I ended up going with 50.

biggiesmalls reply :

On 4/3/2018 at 7:23 PM, Riazuli said:

Check out my recent thread asking about this. Lots of great info in there.

Disregard the top one... That went to a single comment on the 2nd page and won't delete. You can see I ended up going with 50.

After reading through the thread, I'm going with 50 lb as well. I don't see any added benefits to 65 lb.

Riazuli reply :

By the way, thought I would post this thread that was part of what led me to go with a low gear ratio vs high for froggin:

biggiesmalls reply :

On 4/4/2018 at 8:00 AM, Riazuli said:

By the way, thought I would post this thread that was part of what led me to go with a low gear ratio vs high for froggin:

I understand the logic of a lower gear ratio for more torque, but we're talking about bass here. Not a world-class fighting fish, we're talking about a fish that averages well under 5 pounds. And IMO, the fish should be fought with the rod and the drag - you shouldn't be reeling so hard that you can strip the gears of a baitcaster on a bass, even if it's 5 or 6 pounds. Use the rod to your advantage, that's what it's there for. Again, just my opinion on that matter. One of many, take it with a grain of salt

Drew

Riazuli reply :

On 4/4/2018 at 8:21 AM, biggiesmalls said:

I understand the logic of a lower gear ratio for more torque, but we're talking about bass here. Not a world-class fighting fish, we're talking about a fish that averages well under 5 pounds. And IMO, the fish should be fought with the rod and the drag - you shouldn't be reeling so hard that you can strip the gears of a baitcaster on a bass, even if it's 5 or 6 pounds. Use the rod to your advantage, that's what it's there for. Again, just my opinion on that matter. One of many, take it with a grain of salt

Drew

I agree with fighting the fish with the rod and not just cranking away without doing that, but I guess my concern is more around what I mentioned before - It's not uncommon that I come across 10+ pound snakehead while frogging where I'm at. The guy in the thread did say he did this catching a bass while using his rod (but also under tourney pressure), but again it's just a perspective to consider. If If I didn't think I'd likely have better chance of catching a snakehead than a bass while frogging where I'm at, I likely would have gone with a higher ratio.

Tywithay reply :

On 4/4/2018 at 8:30 AM, Riazuli said:

I agree with fighting the fish with the rod and not just cranking away without doing that, but I guess my concern is more around what I mentioned before - It's not uncommon that I come across 10+ pound snakehead while frogging where I'm at. The guy in the thread did say he did this catching a bass, but again it's just a perspective to consider. If If I didn't think I'd likely have better chance of catching a snakehead than a bass while frogging where I'm at, I likely would have gone with a higher ratio.

I use an 8.1:1 for wiper fishing and have caught numerous fish over 10lbs. They fight atleast twice as hard as a bass and I haven't noticed any additional wear. As long as you're using a reel made with quality components, the ratio isn't going to make a huge difference on longevity.

Riazuli reply :

On 4/4/2018 at 9:38 AM, Tywithay said:

I use an 8.1:1 for wiper fishing and have caught numerous fish over 10lbs. They fight atleast twice as hard as a bass and I haven't noticed any additional wear. As long as you're using a reel made with quality components, the ratio isn't going to make a huge difference on longevity.

To each his own. There are mixed opinions in the thread I posted, the guy said he was using his rod but also under pressure for a tourney so who knows. He was using a Daiwa Tatula, so the components were "quality".

sully420 reply :

Im a fan of lower gear ratio reels as well. I haven't noticed any benefits with reels faster than 7.1:1. But reel ratio is very preference based.

OnthePotomac reply :

Walked into our BPS three years ago and they had a KVD 7' MH, 1/4-1/14. 10-20lb rating on sale for $80. On a long shot I put 50lb 832 braid on a Curado E 7:1 and started throwing a frog and it turned out to be a perfect set up for the Potomac grass beds. I already had the reel.

optimator reply :

I seriously doubt that any quality fast reel is going to be more fragile than the same reel in a slower gear ratio. If people were blowing up 8.1 Tatulas frogging but the 6.3's weren't having issues people would know about it.

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 1:40 AM, optimator said:

I seriously doubt that any quality fast reel is going to be more fragile than the same reel in a slower gear ratio. If people were blowing up 8.1 Tatulas frogging but the 6.3's weren't having issues people would know about it.

That statement is somewhat flawed, given the physics of gear ratios...lower gear ratio means bigger teeth and more torque vs smaller/thinner teeth (fragile might be a strong word here, but they simply aren't as strong as the gears in a lower ratio gear) and lower torque/more speed with a higher gear - sure, a quality reel with the right approach shouldn't be burning gears easily, but it happens.

optimator reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 5:19 AM, Riazuli said:

That statement is somewhat flawed, given the physics of gear ratios...lower gear ratio means bigger teeth and more torque vs smaller/thinner teeth (fragile might be a strong word here, but they simply aren't as strong as the gears in a lower ratio gear) and lower torque/more speed with a higher gear - sure, a quality reel with the right approach shouldn't be burning gears easily, but it happens.

Not really. What I'm saying is the guys using fast reels on frog rods aren't blowing them up at some alarming rate. Not good reels anyways. Otherwise there would be 100 threads on it :lol:

WRB reply :

Who uses a reel to crank in a bass without using the rod to pull and lift the weight?

Tom

optimator reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 5:49 AM, WRB said:

Who uses a reel to crank in a bass without using the rod to pull and lift the weight?

Tom

Exactly!

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 5:43 AM, optimator said:

Not really. What I'm saying is the guys using fast reels on frog rods aren't blowing them up at some alarming rate. Not good reels anyways. Otherwise there would be 100 threads on it

No point in discussing further if you can't acknowledge simple laws of physics. And no one said this was being done at an alarming rate...I simply used an experience from another user as a reference, and in my personal case, the lower gears apply.

On 4/6/2018 at 5:49 AM, WRB said:

Who uses a reel to crank in a bass without using the rod to pull and lift the weight?

Tom

you say that as if the reel isn't doing any work at times, with no force or friction places upon the gears...

WRB reply :

Didn't imply the reel doesn't see forces, it does. What I said is we don't operate the gear drive train as a wrench. The drags slip or should be set so the do, the anti reverse one way bearing lock the handle from turning backwards, we can lift the rod tip upwards to apply force to the fish and reel in line as we lower the rod tip. The reel frame takes loads via the spool shaft and bearings, non of this force should damage gears as long as the frame doesn't flex. It takes hundreds of force pounds to strip precision metal gears, unless the metal is of poor quality.

Weak reel frame, weak metal used to make gears, poor quality control and the drive train can fail. Over the past 60 years fishing I never had a reel drive train gear failure. I have had drag disk fail from fast swimming fish like Marlin and tuns, had a spool shaft bend from a Black Sea bass locking up the reel,no issues with fresh water bass.

Tom

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 8:17 AM, WRB said:

Didn't imply the reel doesn't see forces, it does. What I said is we don't operate the gear drive train as a wrench. The drags slip or should be set so the do, the anti reverse one way bearing lock the handle from turning backwards, we can lift the rod tip upwards to apply force to the fish and reel in line as we lower the rod tip. The reel frame takes loads via the spool shaft and bearings, non of this force should damage gears as long as the frame doesn't flex. It takes hundreds of force pounds to strip precision metal gears, unless the metal is of poor quality.

Weak reel frame, weak metal used to make gears, poor quality control and the drive train can fail. Over the past 60 years fishing I never had a reel drive train gear failure. I have had drag disk fail from fast swimming fish like Marlin and tuns, had a spool shaft bend from a Black Sea bass locking up the reel,no issues with fresh water bass.

Tom

Thanks for clarifying, I get all of that - that doesn't mean that gears can't get burned, even quality ones and even from an experienced fisherman. The thread I referenced is a perfect example of that...Daiwa tatula with a guy who seems like he knows what he's doing (but was admittedly under pressure at the time too). The point is, it can happen, and for some cases, the lower gears are a better option. In my case, for my preference and the fish and conditions I'm working with, a lower gear suits me. It's all about being comfortable and having confidence in what you're working with - for some that's high gears in some situations, and for others it's low gears in some situations.

Dtrombly reply :

I use a Daiwa DX Type LT 7'4" H/F ($119.99 on TW) pair that with a Tatula CT or SV and its a killer heavy frog setup

Tywithay reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 5:19 AM, Riazuli said:

That statement is somewhat flawed, given the physics of gear ratios...lower gear ratio means bigger teeth and more torque vs smaller/thinner teeth (fragile might be a strong word here, but they simply aren't as strong as the gears in a lower ratio gear) and lower torque/more speed with a higher gear - sure, a quality reel with the right approach shouldn't be burning gears easily, but it happens.

The size of the teeth don't necessarily relate to the gear ratio. Bigger teeth doesn't necessarily mean more torque either.

On 4/6/2018 at 5:19 AM, Riazuli said:

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 9:40 AM, Tywithay said:

The size of the teeth don't necessarily relate to the gear ratio. Bigger teeth doesn't necessarily mean more torque either.

relative to the same reel it does - I was attributing torque more to the gear ratio and not the teeth necessarily - that was just an additional factor to consider.

the reel ess reply :

I've got a Lew's Tournament MB reel 7.5:1 reels and the Cabela's 7'3" Tournament ZX Frog model rod. About $230 for the combo. You can sometimes catch the rod on sale for $75. I like the reel so much I have 3 of them. The rod is good for heavy cover. I usually fish frogs in lilies, so that works for me. If you were fishing them in more open water, I'd probably want one with more tip.

QUAKEnSHAKE reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 5:19 AM, Riazuli said:

That statement is somewhat flawed, given the physics of gear ratios...lower gear ratio means bigger teeth and more torque vs smaller/thinner teeth (fragile might be a strong word here, but they simply aren't as strong as the gears in a lower ratio gear) and lower torque/more speed with a higher gear - sure, a quality reel with the right approach shouldn't be burning gears easily, but it happens.

No that is incorrect.

The size of the teeth dont change based on gear ratio.

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 11:42 AM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

No that is incorrect.

The size of the teeth dont change based on gear ratio.

Can you explain how you fit more or less teeth on to a gear without changing the size of them? I am comparing the same reel model with different ratios.

optimator reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 11:55 AM, Riazuli said:

Can you explain how you fit more or less teeth on to a gear without changing the size of them? I am comparing the same reel model with different ratios.

Dude, you need to go fishing or something

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 12:05 PM, optimator said:

Dude, you need to go fishing or something

School and work. Will get to go next week

WRB reply :

This is likecwatching a bebate between dumb and dumber. If you have a 1.00 D gear with 50 teeth and a 1.00 D gear with 100 teeth what gear has more teeth? Fine precision gear teeth are smoother then coarse precision gear teeth because more teeth are engaged. Micro precision gears are expensive because of very close tolerances to manufacture them so there is a trade off cost verses performance.

Tom

Riazuli reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 1:07 PM, WRB said:

This is likecwatching a bebate between dumb and dumber. If you have a 1.00 D gear with 50 teeth and a 1.00 D gear with 100 teeth what gear has more teeth? Fine precision gear teeth are smoother then coarse precision gear teeth because more teeth are engaged. Micro precision gears are expensive because of very close tolerances to manufacture them so there is a trade off cost verses performance.

Tom

No need for name calling...your comment is also out of scope, so pretty ironic that you would say that. Your comment about what gear has more teeth also doesn't make a point that's relevant here. Can you explain the difference in a gear between the low, medium, and high gear ratio for a single series/model? I am not comparing microprecision gearing to regular gearing, but gears within the same series of reel for a reasonable comparison... For example a metanium 100 hg compared to the xg version, both with microprecision gears. Lower gear ratios (at least within the same reel series) are stronger for a reason...what is that reason, seeing as you seem to be educated about this?

optimator reply :

Jaderose reply :

*sigh* C'mon summer.

QUAKEnSHAKE reply :

On 4/6/2018 at 11:55 AM, Riazuli said:

Can you explain how you fit more or less teeth on to a gear without changing the size of them? I am comparing the same reel model with different ratios.

The individual tooth size wont change. The overall diameter of the gear will change based on number of teeth.

These gears have a 48 pitch and as you see all have different number of teeth but the teeth remain the same size. The gear ratio will change based on the combination used to pair them together. If I pair the 22 tooth gear to the 83 tooth gear the ratio will be 4.88 if I pair the 75 tooth to the 22 the gear ratio will be 3.4 The 83 to 17 ratio is 3.77 and the 75 to 17 ratio is 4.11, all different gear ratios.

Now the teeth didnt change size nor did they get stronger or weaker.

The teeth on the biggest gear are the same size as the teeth on the smallest gear.

Could you be thinking of the "power" increase you get from using a lower geared reel like say a 5.5 to 1 ratio for big crankbaits, being easier to reel than the same model in an 8 to 1 ratio and you have to reel with more effort with same big crankbait?

Riazuli reply :

On 4/7/2018 at 7:05 AM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

The individual tooth size wont change. The overall diameter of the gear will change based on number of teeth.

These gears have a 48 pitch and as you see all have different number of teeth but the teeth remain the same size. The gear ratio will change based on the combination used to pair them together. If I pair the 22 tooth gear to the 83 tooth gear the ratio will be 4.88 if I pair the 75 tooth to the 22 the gear ratio will be 3.4 The 83 to 17 ratio is 3.77 and the 75 to 17 ratio is 4.11, all different gear ratios.

Now the teeth didnt change size nor did they get stronger or weaker.

The teeth on the biggest gear are the same size as the teeth on the smallest gear.

Could you be thinking of the "power" increase you get from using a lower geared reel like say a 5.5 to 1 ratio for big crankbaits, being easier to reel than the same model in an 8 to 1 ratio and you have to reel with more effort with same big crankbait?

Now, THERE is a response and explanation I can live with. Thank you! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for, and the picture diagram explains it perfectly - I actually did an admittedly short search for something like that with no luck.

So, using a metanium 100 or really any other low profile baitcaster as an example - do the sizes of the reels actually vary within a series? Like does a met100 hg vary in overall reel frame size from a met100 xg? (I imagine the actual frame might not need to vary in size, but somehow they are able to vary the size of gears within the frame).

Also, yes I am more referring to power, and as you can see I clarified several times that the torque was the main thing I was considering, with my thought about teeth just being an additional factor. I did think about gears varying in width, but then wondered about reel sizes changing within a single series of reels.

Shimano_1 reply :

I've built several custom rods. I basically got away from it simply because if I break one I have to build another. Having said that there are a lot of nice options. I personally prefer a lil softer rod than most. I've been using a carbonlite 7ft med hvy and for the money it's hard to beat. As far as reels, any lews above the speed spool are great. I prefer the tournament pro g reels! Good luck

biggiesmalls reply :

Wow, this thread went a whole different direction! To each his own with gear ratios, I will be going with a higher gear ratio for frogs. It's a bass, not a tuna. It's not stripping gears, it's not spooling a reel. It's a ~5 pound fish, if that. Fun to catch, but not a powerful gamefish.

I am not sure what reel I will go with, but I think it will be either Daiwa or Lews. I'll update the thread when I decide on the reel.

Drew

Riazuli reply :

I think I should clarify again, that it's possible I'm catching close to 15lb snakehead where I'll be using my only low (5.4) gear setup in a low profile freshwater baitcaster (in very heavy vegetation/slop at that). I've got higher gears for other setups.

biggiesmalls reply :

On 4/9/2018 at 2:11 AM, Riazuli said:

I think I should clarify again, that it's possible I'm catching close to 15lb snakehead where I'll be using my only low (5.4) gear setup in a low profile freshwater baitcaster (in very heavy vegetation/slop at that). I've got higher gears for other setups.

High gear ratio reels are used for 15+ lb peacock bass in the Amazon quite often, ripping big woodchoppers. That fish will leave an equal-sized snakehead in the dust.

Riazuli reply :

On 4/9/2018 at 5:20 AM, biggiesmalls said:

High gear ratio reels are used for 15+ lb peacock bass in the Amazon quite often, ripping big woodchoppers. That fish will leave an equal-sized snakehead in the dust.

Thanks for the tip, again. Luckily, I've got a wide selection of gear ratios to work with for whatever suits my particular needs. I hope yours works out well for you!

2534

Frog setup for ~$250 2024

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