What makes a good (sensative) rod/blank? What's the difference between $100 rod and $800 rod 2024
clemsondds reply :
Just wanting to learn more about rods/blanks. I was just in the store and the fishing section manager was going on and on about how Favorite rods are way better than anything else right now in their store (g.loomis, dobins, st croix,..). I asked him to explain and he said that they are japanese blanks and are much higher quality. Then he started talking about the composition of the various rods and why favorite starts with higher quality blanks. Anyway, all that to say, I realized I really know nothing about the materials of a good blank and why one cost more than the other. I understand the basics, but can anyone give me a good rundown of why Dobyns rods (in general) are better than say ugly stick, and megabass rods are better than dobyns rods in general. I understand there's a lot of difference in the rods...just looking to learn what those differences are. I also realize there's a ton of different types of rods out there. Just looking for a basic education on the different materials they use to create blanks. Thanks!
Glaucus reply :
I know very little about how a rod is made. I just know higher quality, more expensive rods are generally lighter, better balanced, and actions are truer (cheap rods tend to be more parabolic).
I'm chiming in to say that Favorite rods are garbage and I would never shop anywhere where staff is pimping them as the best thing. The Googan Squad popularized them, but even they've moved away from them. Saying Favorite is better than Loomis, Dobyns, Croix, etc is like trying to convince someone this year's Dolphins team is better than the Patriots. It's laughable and blatantly false.
Pfisher reply :
I'm not sure either but in the last three months I have fished the Gloomis IMX pro and GLX in the same model/action. In baitcasting I can't tell a ton of difference, especially since I use braid most of the time. In spinning models though I can tell a huge difference in the sensitivity. I know own 4 GLX spinning rods and might as well leave the others at home ????
Considering their is only a $100 difference I was really surprised in the difference.
jimmyjoe reply :
On 12/16/2019 at 9:46 AM, clemsondds said:going on and on about how Favorite rods are way better than anything else right now in their store (g.loomis, dobins, st croix,..).
I was drinking coffee when I read that part of your post. I've just now got done cleaning the keyboard. Please warn me when you're gonna print that kind of stuff again, ok? Thank you! jj
FishTank reply :
I can't speak a whole lot about the difference between one material or the next when it comes to rods but I do know what I like to fish and what a rod should feel like in hand.
When I took a look at the Favorite rod display at DSG, I was not impressed. I had seen pictures of them before and pretty much already made up my mind that these were more gimmick than substance. When I put one in my hand, saying they were gimmicky definitely didn't sum it up. I would add that they are way, way over hyped and really not very well made. I do give them credit for doing a great job of marketing.
Boomstick reply :
On 12/16/2019 at 9:53 AM, Glaucus said:I know very little about how a rod is made. I just know higher quality, more expensive rods are generally lighter, better balanced, and actions are truer (cheap rods tend to be more parabolic).
I'm chiming in to say that Favorite rods are garbage and I would never shop anywhere where staff is pimping them as the best thing. The Googan Squad popularized them, but even they've moved away from them. Saying Favorite is better than Loomis, Dobyns, Croix, etc is like trying to convince someone this year's Dolphins team is better than the Patriots. It's laughable and blatantly false.
Of the Googan squad, I think LunkersTV is the only one that uses his rod 90% of the time. Flair and Jon B appear to use whatever, and LakeForGuy usually uses Dobyns rods and Shimano reels.
They are definitely not the best rods out there -- or the best rods for the price. Go in the store and light tap the tip on something (preferably moderately soft) and see if you can even feel it -- I bet you won't. I can honestly feel vibrations in the tip of my glass rods long before I could with Favorite rods. And since you're in a store, do the same with Dobyns Fury or Sierra or a St. Croix Mojo Bass or a G Loomis E6X and feel the difference. And if they have any super expensive rods, see if you can feel the difference there. The sensitivity per dollar seems to drop quite a bit after the $150 mark or so, but that isn't to say there isn't any but most of my rods are $130-150.
The most expensive rod I have is a $200 St. Croix Avid X, 6'9" ML/XF spinning rod that I use for finesse presentations. I got my youngest son a much cheaper rod for the same presentations, and it's not actually too bad, but you definitely can tell a difference.
clemsondds reply :
Thank you for all the replies. Forget I said anything about Favorite rods 
. That was just an analogy. I just want specifics on rod composition and design...what's the actual difference between eg megabass destroyer line and g loomis glx..) What is it in the blanks that make up a high end rod? I know it's a pretty technical question...but I know there are plenty of guys on here that could educate us. Thanks
BaitFinesse reply :
The Megabass appeal is the great action of the rods that allow then to be ideal in what you are looking for while also often times being surprisingly versatile. The rods are also drool inducing gorgeous and are extremely well built. They are also very sensitive for the price point as well.
The Loomis rods have some great actions and powers as well that make them great tools. They might look like $100 sticks but they are excellent fishing tools in that their sensitivity, actions and power are great for the price point.
In any case there are diminishing returns the high up in price you go with fishing rods. At some point the rod goes beyond being a tool and into being a nice thing and nice things are expensive. I find the $150 price point to offer sticks that are pretty sensitive and fit the bill in action while being pretty good looking too. The old gold and black Tatula rods come to mind. The Zodias rods aren't bad either but they can be a little stiff.
Choporoz reply :
Great questions, @clemsondds. Like those above, I haven't had enough desire to really understand the technical side. I know what I like when I fish it.
We have some extremely talented rod builders on here and I look forward to their replies. Also, you can learn a lot from @Batson, a sponsor and quality blank source. Their web pages are somewhat instructive, and a lot of their older posts here are also educational. Lots of other good info on the web, but admittedly, I got tired of trying to weed out the useless noise when trying to learn.
LCG reply :
I would find a new place to shop with the poor advice you received at that store. Gloomis, st croix, Shimano, and other high end offerings have quality and customer service that are head and shoulders above favorite products. That sales manager is pushing stock they have Thats all and he is being dishonest with you. I would shop elsewhere.
Tim Kelly reply :
Favorite make some great rods that are available in Europe. Not sure they import them to the States though.
To answer your question, the quality of the blank and fittings make a big difference. A high quality blank with cheaper heavier guides will spoil a good blank and a cheaper blank with lighter guides will seem better than it would otherwise.
If you get a well made quality blank in one hand and a lesser rod in the other and tap the tip against the ceiling you will immediately feel the crisper sensation of the better blank in your hand. The rod recovers it's shape faster and wobbles less which gives you a crisper feel.
MickD reply :
Weight is the enemy of sensitivity, so heavy is bad, light is good. Which leads to small and light guides, because weight way out there on the blank has much more effect on sensitivity than weight in the butt. Small, light guides contribute not only to sensitivity but to balance because most blanks over about 6 feet are tip heavy.
Achieving lighter weight leads generally to manufacturers using higher modulus materials in their blanks, the higher modulus resulting in lighter blanks for the same power. Which leads to better sensitivity.
BUT. . . A very important ingredient in a really outstanding blank is design. For example one of my favorite blanks is a 7 foot medium light RX7 blank that costs well under $100. When I built one for my son his first reaction on fishing it was that it is "really sensitive." He uses it for tubes for smb, an application that I think it is a little underpowered for, but he loves it for tubes even though he has two SCV St Croix's of the right power. The finished rod weighs 3.6 oz, if I remember correctly.
How one determines how all this mixes together is not easy, but if I wanted to buy the most sensitive finished rod of a certain power and action, I would look to the reputations of the manufacturers and the highest levels of their rods. I know of no way to measure sensitivity. One thing you cannot do with modern high quality rods is evaluate them by twitching/wiggling them. (exc maybe fly rods) They don't wiggle with their hi mod materials and light guides. They leave many who are not familiar with this level of quality thinking they are too stiff. One thing you can do that will tell some of the story is to take a miniature scale to the store and weight different rods. Scales are cheap on Ebay or Amazon, and are very accurate. Weight doesn't tell the whole story, but if you're confused about the merits of one rod vs another, and one weighs in under 4 oz and the other is 5, it's very difficult to get a 5 oz rod (unless it's quite long or very powerful) to be really sensitive The old 7 foot spin Ugli Sticks weighed about 5.3.
I don't think it takes a retail price of $800 to deliver a great rod. I haven't been in the rod market (I build my own) lately, so am not sure what the top of the line (or close to the top) Loomis and St Croix rods go for, but I'll be you can get a great rod for about half that, or a little more than half.
The price-value relationship that we are used to in many products works for rods, too. Meaning that as you get pricier and pricier the incremental value added per dollar spent is less and less. Finding the sweet spot that meets your needs is the challenge.
Oregon Native reply :
I too believe in the weight thing....when I put a rod together with a reel I want the outfit to be an extension of my arm. I don't want to feel like I'm holding a hammer. I have had inexpensive rods to very expensive rods feel like this...
It takes time...to match rods and reels but then you have something "BEAUTIFUL"....(Sorry)
Many hasteful put together 's now are in friends or other peoples hands.....!!!!
Take an hour or two....go in a well stocked store...match up and compare...would do this early in day as to get more help....Christmas probably is not the best of times.....good luck
TBAG reply :
LOL, Favorite better than Loomis, St. Croix or Dobyns?
I need some of what he's smoking.
MN Fisher reply :
On 12/16/2019 at 11:23 PM, TBAG said:LOL, Favorite better than Loomis, St. Croix or Dobyns?
I need some of what he's smoking.
I'm afraid it'd result in permanent 'drain bamaging'. (twitch-twitch)
MickD reply :
On 12/16/2019 at 11:23 PM, TBAG said:LOL, Favorite better than Loomis, St. Croix or Dobyns?
If you're asking me, I wrote "favorite," not Favorite. I've never even heard of Favorite before. The blank I was referring to is a Rainshadow. I have two Loomis rods , built by me, and they are very good rods , and I've built many St Croix SCV and Avids. My Loomis's are casting rods and the St Croix and Rodgeeks are spin. I will say that the Rainshadow is certainly competitive with the Loomis and St Croix (and Rodgeeks) that I've built on, and at a price point just under the Rodgeeks, about half the St Croix, and less than half of the Loomis's before they were no longer offerred as blanks. It is interesting that many on this forum state their favorite spin rod is a St Croix SCV 7 foot medium lite power, fast action The Rainshadow appears to be about the same power but with a little slower action. The point of my mentioning that rod was to illustrate how important design is. Here is a rod about two levels of modulus below the SCV and Loomis, and it's a great rod.
WRB reply :
How to choose a bass rod.
1. Customer service and warranty, you want to buy from a rod maker who stands behind what they sell.
2. Select a rod that feels right to you. Put a reel on the rod with line and cast it using a practice weight you plan to use. Only you know what feels right for you.
3. What is light weight? Today a 7' baitcasting rod medium heavy fast action should weigh less then 4 oz. to be considered light weight.
4. Sensitivety is the dampening affect of the rod. When you test it (#2) feel the vibrations the practice casting plug feeds back when retrieved. The higher the rods material modulus are the more vibration you will be able to feel. All the rods components affect how the rod feels to you.
If the reel seat, guides and rod blank for example cost $100 the finished rod must sell for higher price point to make a profit to cover labor and operating cost. Rod blanks require hand labor and not mass produced by automated machines. Labor costs are lowered by going off shore verses making anything in Amercia or Japan where labor costs are higher.
Tom
TigerBassAU reply :
Wow.... what a lot of good info you have already got, so I will try to add to it without beating a dead horse!
So in a nut shell.....Higher dollar rods are usually lighter, have better components, and can vary in price based on labor cost (where made) and warranty! The rod blanks are also usually softer without sacrificing sensitivity due to various building materials and techniques which increase cost.
Sensitivity..... I consider braid line the great equalizer for sensitivity. So if sensitivity is all you are concerned about buy a quality $100+ rod and figure out how to use braid for your fishing style. I say $100+ because that is usually the range where you get components that will last with braid line.
I tested my "dead to most" E6X gen 1 models (803 & 893) vs my new GLX (853) using same reel and lure with braid and mono. Short story, very little difference to me with braid, but mono was a different story. GLX was only slightly less sensitive with mono compared to braid unlike the E6X models. FWIW, the 803 was slightly more sensitive with mono than 893 but nowhere near the glx. Think HD tv vs SD. I can feel the bottom rock but not near as clear.
I think of sensitivity like sound volumes...at some point loud is loud regardless of decibels but turn it down and you can tell a major difference!
But if you want it all.... Lightest rods with premium components and warranty...gotta pay to play!!
Edited by TigerBassAUTBAG reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 1:57 AM, MickD said:If you're asking me, I wrote "favorite," not Favorite. I've never even heard of Favorite before. The blank I was referring to is a Rainshadow. I have two Loomis rods , built by me, and they are very good rods , and I've built many St Croix SCV and Avids. My Loomis's are casting rods and the St Croix and Rodgeeks are spin. I will say that the Rainshadow is certainly competitive with the Loomis and St Croix (and Rodgeeks) that I've built on, and at a price point just under the Rodgeeks, about half the St Croix, and less than half of the Loomis's before they were no longer offerred as blanks. It is interesting that many on this forum state their favorite spin rod is a St Croix SCV 7 foot medium lite power, fast action The Rainshadow appears to be about the same power but with a little slower action. The point of my mentioning that rod was to illustrate how important design is. Here is a rod about two levels of modulus below the SCV and Loomis, and it's a great rod.
Nope, I was referring to what the idiot manager at the store told the OP.
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
Its not about higher price to get lighter weight. There are a number of rods in the $150 price point that are much lighter than comparable length power and action rods 3-4 times the price.
Dobyns, NRX ,ST croix extreme, Megabass dont have super light weight rods in the 3.3-3.5oz realm for 7' medium heavy fast action casting rods. Quantum Smoke, Okuma Helios, Phenix Feather, Powel indurance rods do weigh in that range. Smoke and Helios rods also have rather good balance even for being so light.
soflabasser reply :
You can do quite well with a decent sub $100 bass rod if you know what you are doing. Others struggle to catch lunker bass and they own several custom rods. What matters most is that you put in the time needed to improve your bass fishing game and everything else comes after.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
Sensitivity where the blank is concerned is a function of stiffness to weight ratio, hence the high modulus graphite. Next, the guide train should consist of the smallest lightest and least number of guides that will hold up to the application, pass connections and distribute stress correctly.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 1:57 AM, MickD said:If you're asking me, I wrote "favorite," not Favorite. I've never even heard of Favorite before. The blank I was referring to is a Rainshadow. I have two Loomis rods , built by me, and they are very good rods , and I've built many St Croix SCV and Avids. My Loomis's are casting rods and the St Croix and Rodgeeks are spin. I will say that the Rainshadow is certainly competitive with the Loomis and St Croix (and Rodgeeks) that I've built on, and at a price point just under the Rodgeeks, about half the St Croix, and less than half of the Loomis's before they were no longer offerred as blanks. It is interesting that many on this forum state their favorite spin rod is a St Croix SCV 7 foot medium lite power, fast action The Rainshadow appears to be about the same power but with a little slower action. The point of my mentioning that rod was to illustrate how important design is. Here is a rod about two levels of modulus below the SCV and Loomis, and it's a great rod.
I purchased a used custom 7' MHF RX7 Rainshadow and have to say I really like the rod a lot. Seems quite sensitive to me.
fin reply :
On 12/16/2019 at 9:46 AM, clemsondds said:Just looking for a basic education on the different materials they use to create blanks.
QuoteGraphite (carbon fiber) is the main ingredient in a graphite fishing rod. In the case of fiberglass fishing rods the main ingredient is fiberglass. Composites are manufactured from blends of both graphite and fiberglass.
There is a substance called "scrim" that is either a thin fiberglass or graphite mesh, like a fabric. A thin layer of woven scrim (either graphite or usually, fiberglass) is placed over a graphite blank. Graphite fibers resist bending. The scrim is what helps prevent the rod from breaking.
Resin can be considered the glue or binder that holds the blank and scrim together. The type and quantity used has significant effect on the ultimate action of a rod. Today, in fact, resins are the most manipulated by technology of the three ingredients.
Good question. I don't know the answer, so I copied and edited that from another site. I think it's part of the answer you're looking for, but I think your question is kind of like asking, "What makes one chili recipe better than another?" It's somewhat subjective. The ingredients in the recipe (blank) are not the most important factor, it's how they are combined.
Maybe you think learning more about the materials will make it easier to shop for rods, but it's like choosing a chili based on looking at the recipe instead of tasting it. That's why nobody in this thread is really answering the question you asked, they are instead telling you what properties you should be looking for in a rod.
I think you are wise to ask the question though. The fact that there isn't an answer makes rods a very profitable business for some.
clemsondds reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 11:12 PM, fin said:Good question. I don't know the answer, so I copied and edited that from another site. I think it's part of the answer you're looking for, but I think your question is kind of like asking, "What makes one chili recipe better than another?" It's somewhat subjective. The ingredients in the recipe (blank) are not the most important factor, it's how they are combined.
Maybe you think learning more about the materials will make it easier to shop for rods, but it's like choosing a chili based on looking at the recipe instead of tasting it. That's why nobody in this thread is really answering the question you asked, they are instead telling you what properties you should be looking for in a rod.
I think you are wise to ask the question though. The fact that there isn't an answer makes rods a very profitable business for some.
YES! This is what I am looking for. Just trying to learn more...not really looking for advice on buying a particular rod. Just realized that I really have no idea what the various material options there are for rods, and why one is better than the other. It's crazy how there's such a variety of rods (eg. $50 up to $1000) but not much info on why one cost way more than another...other that the usual vague terms like sensitive and weight. Thanks again for helping me with this! Any other thoughts?
WRB reply :
There is a good article with Ken Kistler and Gary Loomis that discuses the today's high tech light weight rods. The history is interesting and some of us lived it.
We owe Gary Loomis our gratitude for solving the complex problem of high strength with flexibity we have today in bass fishing rods.
Tom
fin reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 11:41 PM, WRB said:There is a good article with Ken Kistler and Gary Loomis that discuses the today's high tech light weight rods.
I guess that's an article on Kistler Rods' site? I found this part interesting:
QuoteIntermediate modulus rods (33 million to 42 million) with high strain rates (700,000 or higher) still offer a lot of sensitivity and responsiveness and are quite durable. The high-modulus, high-strain-rate, extremely light rods are usually a rod manufacturer’s high-end product. These rods are the ultimate in responsiveness and sensitivity, and they cost a lot more than the average fishing rod.
It would be nice if those numbers were shared with the consumer. I think OP is looking for a tangible reason to pay for high-end rods, like that kind of specification that shows the extra cost is worth it.
fin reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 11:36 PM, clemsondds said:It's crazy how there's such a variety of rods (eg. $50 up to $1000) but not much info on why one cost way more than another...other that the usual vague terms like sensitive and weight. Thanks again for helping me with this! Any other thoughts?
I think it's to the industry's benefit to keep things vague. I suspect a lot of the money for the top of the line rods goes more to research & development and marketing more than the actual production cost. I also suspect there's a much higher profit margin, which is why you see such huge discounts when they do go on sale. But I'm just speculating, I don't know. I'm happy with a $25 rod. I'm sure a $400 rod is better, but I've never fished with one, and I think maybe I'm better off not knowing ????
Columbia Craw reply :
Seven hundred dollars.
Tennessee Boy reply :
Of the rods I use regularly, the cheapest cost $20 in the 1980s. The most expensive cost $400 two years ago. By my estimate, the $400 rod is $50 better than the $20 rod.
MickD reply :
Go back and read my original response to your post.
clemsondds reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 7:15 AM, MickD said:Go back and read my original response to your post.
Thanks for your response and while it was helpful...still looking for what specifically is the main contributing factor to setting the modulus of a rod? amount of carbon fiber? also what determines strain rate? I assume multiple factors determine this (eg cf, scrim, resin...) but just trying to get a better grasp on things.
Derek1 reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 6:44 AM, Tennessee Boy said:Of the rods I use regularly, the cheapest cost $20 in the 1980s. The most expensive cost $400 two years ago. By my estimate, the $400 rod is $50 better than the $20 rod.
We might be able to find the magic number from this equation.
kayaking_kev reply :
It's the sum of the parts. The blank material, the guides, the weight, the balance, the warranty, the company reputation, the reel seat, and handle type.
It's definitely not just how light and stiff a rod is. I have a Dobyns Xtasy 755c that weighs 5.1 oz, made with top of the line everything that balances great. I have a Shimano SLX 7'5 Heavy that weighs less at 4.9 oz and is even stiffer, but the SLX is no where near as sensitive as the Xtasy.
The same with my Dobyns Xtasy 723c that weighs 4.6 and Dobyns Fury 703c that weighs 4.5, both are MH and my Shimano SLX 7'2 MH which is 2 inches longer and stiffer than both weighs less at 4.4 oz.
The most noticeable difference is the balance, the SLX has horrible balance compared to the Dobyns rods. And, even though the SLX are lighter, my shoulder will start to hurt after throwing them awhile and I never had that problem with a Dobyns.
The SLX only comes with a 1 year warranty, while the Dobyns rods come with a lifetime warranty.
The AA cork on the Fury will not last as long, feel or look as good as the AAAA cork on the Xtasy.
Choporoz reply :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3NJhPNW0fM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXWtbRye4VU
These aren't going to answer your questions. However, I found them fascinating....if you have even a tiny bit of interest in blank construction, take a look.
MickD reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 10:39 AM, clemsondds said:still looking for what specifically is the main contributing factor to setting the modulus of a rod
I don't think we can define one specific factor. Some of the newer hi tech blanks have no scrim, so that would take out a component that, while it has a function, does weigh something. Whether the manufacturer found another way to provide the structural function of scrim that is lighter than scrim, I don't know. But the blanks that are scrimless are expensive blanks and I do believe with blanks one tends to get what he pays for. Considering the fact at the higher prices the incremental price increases don't provide the same incremental value increases as occurs at lower prices.
If you want a slow action, many like glass, like E-glass. But it will be heavier than graphite and graphite can give any action that glass can. Graphite will be more sensitive.
If you want max sensitivity it will be high modulus graphite. With or without scrim.
In all blanks design is very important. This is the best I can do.
WRB reply :
^^^ this^^^
The 3M company invented new nano resins that several rod makers used about 7 years ago to make scrimless rod blanks. My custom ALX rods use scrimless banks no longer availble from Lamiglas. Pure Fishing licensed 3M's nano technology limiting who could use the resins for making fishing rods.
There isn't any one element in making a reliable light weight high modulus flexible rod blank. All the components are expensive and labor intense used to make today's state of the art fishing rods.
The graphite and or boron fibers used to make rod blanks haven't changedin the past 25 years, it's the technology, resins and components that have evolved.
Tom
FrogMann reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 11:41 PM, WRB said:There is a good article with Ken Kistler and Gary Loomis that discuses the today's high tech light weight rods. The history is interesting and some of us lived it.
We owe Gary Loomis our gratitude for solving the complex problem of high strength with flexibity we have today in bass fishing rods.
Tom
Just so you know. Gary Loomis didn't solve this. The engineers in conjuction with Gary Loomis were. Steve Rajeff was a major influencer and largely responsible. Still today Rajeff is whom we should thank as well
clemsondds reply :
Soo...you guys that are very knowledgeable about blanks. Is there something you look for in a rod (materials wise) or do you go straight to just sensitivity and weight...and you don’t care about what the makeup is? Thanks!
Tim Kelly reply :
Reputation and price are better indicators than claimed modulus numbers.
webertime reply :
On 12/23/2019 at 12:16 AM, clemsondds said:Soo...you guys that are very knowledgeable about blanks. Is there something you look for in a rod (materials wise) or do you go straight to just sensitivity and weight...and you don’t care about what the makeup is? Thanks!
Feel in my hand when a spooled reel is attached. Company reputation for standing behind their products. That's it.
I've got a $100 discontinued Lamiglas rod that is nicer (to me) than a current Dobyns Champion in the same configuration. Is it "technically" better than the Dobyns? Heck no but I love it.
Just like any tool or piece of equipment, it's the relationship you have with it that determines how "good" it is.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 10:39 AM, clemsondds said:Thanks for your response and while it was helpful...still looking for what specifically is the main contributing factor to setting the modulus of a rod? amount of carbon fiber? also what determines strain rate? I assume multiple factors determine this (eg cf, scrim, resin...) but just trying to get a better grasp on things.
Modulus is an aspect of the graphite material used. Scrim, resin, mandrels affect the finished product but not the modulus. In addition multiple modulus graphite’s are commonly used in an individual blank. You’re banging your head against a wall that isn’t going to give. There is no material spec or industry standard for you to compare apples to apples. Trial and error and on the water results is the only way to know. Feedback from trusted sources like our members is better insight than any “spec” or marketing claim. Only you can decide if an extra expense is worth it. Imo the point of diminishing returns on a factory rod is around $300. Any more than that I’d at least consider a custom built exactly the way you want it.
WRB reply :
Look up Young's modulus of elasticity if you want stress to stain defined.
Tom
The Maestro reply :
The nature of your questions/probing leads me to think that you were either tasked with trying to get this information from your employer or you're trying to build your own rod/blank business.
jimmyjoe reply :
In the most basic, unscientific terms, modulus is "power", and strain rate is "speed". And although that description might be handy, it is an extreme over-simplification. Here's why:
Let's say you walk into a room where a manufacturer assembles engines, and you ask him, "What's the Brinell hardness of your engine?" He can't reply, because there is no such quality. The engine is made up of the block, which is a low hardness, a crank, which is harder, and tappets and cams and lifters which are different hardnesses again. But not the whole engine. Only the parts.
In the same way, "modulus" describes the materials (or parts) in a rod, but not (usually) the total, finished product.
That's what @Mick D means when he says design makes the difference. Take those engine parts again; the same hardness of springs, tappets and crank, et. al., can be used to make a racing engine that will turn 30,000 RPM .....or a pump for irrigation that turns 1,600 RPM. Big difference.
Same with rods.
So when you ask what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to whichever characteristic a rod has, it's like asking what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to the working characteristics of such-and-such motor. No answer. Non sequitur.
And every manufacturer who makes a motor to do a certain specific task will design it differently. All of those motors from all those different manufacturers will do that certain task, whatever it is, but they'll be different motors.
Same with rods.
Clear as mud now? ???? jj
clemsondds reply :
On 12/24/2019 at 5:58 AM, The Maestro said:The nature of your questions/probing leads me to think that you were either tasked with trying to get this information from your employer or you're trying to build your own rod/blank business.
Lol I’m a dentist. Just curious
clemsondds reply :
On 12/24/2019 at 7:07 AM, jimmyjoe said:In the most basic, unscientific terms, modulus is "power", and strain rate is "speed". And although that description might be handy, it is an extreme over-simplification. Here's why:
Let's say you walk into a room where a manufacturer assembles engines, and you ask him, "What's the Brinell hardness of your engine?" He can't reply, because there is no such quality. The engine is made up of the block, which is a low hardness, a crank, which is harder, and tappets and cams and lifters which are different hardnesses again. But not the whole engine. Only the parts.
In the same way, "modulus" describes the materials (or parts) in a rod, but not (usually) the total, finished product.
That's what @Mick D means when he says design makes the difference. Take those engine parts again; the same hardness of springs, tappets and crank, et. al., can be used to make a racing engine that will turn 30,000 RPM .....or a pump for irrigation that turns 1,600 RPM. Big difference.
Same with rods.
So when you ask what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to whichever characteristic a rod has, it's like asking what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to the working characteristics of such-and-such motor. No answer. Non sequitur.
And every manufacturer who makes a motor to do a certain specific task will design it differently. All of those motors from all those different manufacturers will do that certain task, whatever it is, but they'll be different motors.
Same with rods.
Clear as mud now? ???? jj
Ok thank you!! That does make sense. Thank you to everyone that has contributed. Unfortunately, I don’t live close to anywhere where I can test various high end rods, so I’ll just continue to do research on a specific model and make the best educated guess. It was fun learning more about rod composition and the process.
Tim Kelly reply :
On 12/24/2019 at 9:47 AM, clemsondds said:Ok thank you!! That does make sense. Thank you to everyone that has contributed. Unfortunately, I don’t live close to anywhere where I can test various high end rods, so I’ll just continue to do research on a specific model and make the best educated guess. It was fun learning more about rod composition and the process.
Like for most of us, it's an expensive learning curve. Enjoy!
NOC 1 reply :
On 12/24/2019 at 7:07 AM, jimmyjoe said:In the most basic, unscientific terms, modulus is "power", and strain rate is "speed". And although that description might be handy, it is an extreme over-simplification. Here's why:
Let's say you walk into a room where a manufacturer assembles engines, and you ask him, "What's the Brinell hardness of your engine?" He can't reply, because there is no such quality. The engine is made up of the block, which is a low hardness, a crank, which is harder, and tappets and cams and lifters which are different hardnesses again. But not the whole engine. Only the parts.
In the same way, "modulus" describes the materials (or parts) in a rod, but not (usually) the total, finished product.
That's what @Mick D means when he says design makes the difference. Take those engine parts again; the same hardness of springs, tappets and crank, et. al., can be used to make a racing engine that will turn 30,000 RPM .....or a pump for irrigation that turns 1,600 RPM. Big difference.
Same with rods.
So when you ask what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to whichever characteristic a rod has, it's like asking what SPECIFICALLY is the major contributing factor to the working characteristics of such-and-such motor. No answer. Non sequitur.
And every manufacturer who makes a motor to do a certain specific task will design it differently. All of those motors from all those different manufacturers will do that certain task, whatever it is, but they'll be different motors.
Same with rods.
Clear as mud now? ???? jj
Great answer!
To add to the confusion, imagine that instead of 1 scale like "Brinell Hardness". Each maker can and does come up with their own way of describing their material. Is an IM 6 material equivalent to 30 tom fiber, 36 ton fiber..etc.
Add to that that the fiber can be laid in 2,3,4,5, maybe more each of which might be in a coils, horizontal, helix, double helix, 45 degree or 85 degree helix or a combination, crosshatch , and other configurations. The scrim could be sheeted, coiled tape, basket weave, missing completely or even different combinations on different sections of the same blank.
In spite of what some have said, there is a difference in the fiber material as well. The Toray fiber is not the same as the old graphite, and Mitsubishi fiber is different from the other brands etc.
Now as if all that isn't enough, no one who is making blanks is telling exactly what their formula and techniques are.
Then add to all that, that the exact shape of the mandrell that the carbon fiber is wound on can be almost any combination of shapes, transitions, size and whatever else.
As others have said, there really is no pat answer, so the best you can do is see what you like and buy that. If a $100 rod feels great to you, then that is a great rod. For someone else that great rod might cost $800...but they are both great rods.
clemsondds reply :
Thank you all! Got a st croix premier spinning rod and it weights 5oz. Got a Major Craft spinning rod and it weights 2.8oz. The st croix is quite a bit more in price. I’m going to try to test them thoroughly soon. Both are pretty close to exact same spec.
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