Three second fish memory 'just rubbish' 2024

Arnoldo reply :

It's absolute rubbish, says Dr Kevin Warburton, an adjunct researcher with Charles Sturt University's Institute for Land, Water and Society who has been studying fish behaviour for many years.

There's been a lot of work done over the last 15 years on learning and memory in fish and it as been found that fish are quite sophisticated. Fish can remember prey types for months; they can learn to avoid predators after being attacked once and they retain this memory for several months; and carp that have been caught by fishers avoid hooks for at least a year. That fish have only a three second memory is just rubbish.

http://news.csu.edu.au/director/latestnews.cfm?itemID=29F34DE7E2F6FE0FB7272F41C53E3B22&printtemplate=release

What do you think?

Lucky Craft Man reply :

I caught a bluegill once on a bare gold hook. I let the bluegill go and put the same gold hook in front of the same bluegill I just released 1 second before. He swam over and ate the hook again. I would say that fish (at least bluegill) have less than 1 second memory retention.

D4u2s0t reply :

I've caught the same bluegill 5 times within one minute... I've caught tons of fish with visible fresh hook mark, and i've caught plenty of fish with hooks still embedded in their mouth. I don't know what that proves about memory, because i'm not a scientist.

zach t reply :

Let me defunct that then.

This fish was caught on a frog. My wife was hanging out at the dock which was very close, so I brought the boat back, I brought her out, took videos and pics. Released her. Got back in the boat, went back to the same spot, cast the same frog out. Caught the same fish. Literally, minutes apart. I KNOW it was the same fish, because the inside of the mouth was ripped from the frog.

zero limit reply :

I have caught the same bass 3x with in a few minutes I know this from the tail having been partly chewed up

roadwarrior reply :

A few years ago, 1959 or 1960, I hooked-up with

my first big bass. I was fishing one of the Zebco

original spincasting combinations. We were fishing

in clear water on Grand Lake of the Cherokees. I

got the fish close enough to see it was blind in one

eye. As my little brother went to net the fish, he

knocked it off!

Using an identical lure, my dad immediately cast

to the same spot, hooked-up and landed the bass.

For more than 40 years, my dad kept his trophy in

the deep freezer. Over the decades, freezer burn

has caused the bass to shrivel up a little, but

the story we tell at family gatherings is till a

favorite.

8-)

Paul Roberts reply :

"Rubbish!"

Very well put.

Triton21 reply :

My PB was hooked twice within 5 minutes. I t was durning the 2nd Roadtrip at Lake fork. I threw a trick stick near a stump and hook a fish, fought it 3/4 way to boat and broke off. I knew it was a large fish so sat down composed myself, tied on another hook, put another bait out of the same bag, threw back to same stump. Hooked another fish. when it was landed it had my hook and bait embedded in its mouth. Weighted 8 lbs 9 oz.

Kelley

senile1 reply :

Most of us can post anecdotal evidence that fish don't remember being hooked. Anyone who has fished for a few years has probably seen the same fish get hooked multiple times by the same lure in a very short period of time. However out of the thousands of fish most of us have caught, what percentage did you go back and catch with the same lure immediately thereafter? For me, that percentage is very low. If fish didn't have some memory I postulate that most of their species would be extinct by now.

J Francho reply :

There are some fish I caught, that I never caught again.

WRB reply :

There are wary bass and aggressive and the same bass can be both, depending on it's activity level.

If any animal doesn't learn from it's life experiences, it doesn't survive very long.

Anglers can confuse bass behavior with human behavior, big mistake.

Spawning bass for example don't eat while spawning. The male bass may not eat for several weeks, females a shorter time period while laying eggs, up to a week or so. The spawner strikes anything that is perceived by the bass to threaten the nest. The bass knows you are there, but goes against it's learned instinct and leave,the bass stays to protect the nest. You can easily catch a spawner several times because it must stay and protect the nest site from egg eating predators. Normally the bass would leave immediately when ti detects danger.

WRB

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
There are some fish I caught, that I never caught again.

Good point, J.

This discussion came up recently. Since I spent some time digging into my archives on the subject I'll give the link again:

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1263165951/0

Pitchinkid reply :

I kind of look at fish as if they are people. There are stupid fish and there are stupid people. A fish hitting the same lure or bait seconds or minutes apart could be caused by a few different reasons in my opinion. First is hunger. Maybe there is nothing to eat or lack of forage for the fish.So therefore any time there is an opportunity for the fish to feed, it does. Maybe the fish is protecting its bed( as pointed out above) or foraging area. Or maybe its just a stupid fish. Kind of like a crook that has been caught, and is later returned to society were once they are caught for the same crime. Pure stupidity.

D4u2s0t reply :

Quote
There are wary bass and aggressive and the same bass can be both, depending on it's activity level.
If any animal doesn't learn from it's life experiences, it doesn't survive very long.

Anglers can confuse bass behavior with human behavior, big mistake.

Spawning bass for example don't eat while spawning. The male bass may not eat for several weeks, females a shorter time period while laying eggs, up to a week or so. The spawner strikes anything that is perceived by the bass to threaten the nest. The bass knows you are there, but goes against it's learned instinct and leave,the bass stays to protect the nest. You can easily catch a spawner several times because it must stay and protect the nest site from egg eating predators. Normally the bass would leave immediately when ti detects danger.

WRB

and this, in my eye, is exactly what makes it hard to determine a fish' memory. Certain instincts will most likely override safety, one being protection, another being aggression. I think too many people forget that fish don't only bite to eat. Plus, we don't know what kind of risk each individual fish is going to take in order to eat. (when they do strike to feed) Sometimes a fish will come up, look at your bait, seems to almost sniff it, then takes off. Then another will come and eat it. Makes it hard to determine behavior when your only point of reference is what you see on the lake.

brushhoggin reply :

reaction strikes as opposed to getting a good look a slow moving bait may make some difference

CWB reply :

I say rubbish to the rubbish.

Like any other species, humans included, ;D there will be some smart ones but the vast majority don't have a clue. Some years ago I hooked a nice bass on a Sluggo and it wrapped me around a stump and broke off.

I quickly re-rigged up and cast to the same spot and bang!, hooked the same fish and got it in with the first Sluggo still hanging from its face. Did the bluegill thing several times off the dock. It's amazing how stupid they are. Carp, on the other hand, seem to be pretty smart overall. I don't know that they will remember stuff for a year and what the Dr. is basing his assumption on, but they are among the wariest and toughest to catch fish in my parts.

RoLo reply :

We have a cockatiel at home, and for no apparent reason he used to make

a unique outburst once almost every evening. It wasn't until many weeks later that I finally realized

that our bird was reacting to the theme song at the end of the "Becker" show.

When we moved two years ago, we lost access to that particular TV channel,

and our bird never uttered that sound again. Then a couple months ago, we caught a random episode of "Becker".

Although it was the farthest thought from my mind, our cockatiel suddenly sounded off

in the same unique way when the showed ended, and he hasn't heard that song for almost two years!

Here's the upshot.

While this behavior typifies excellent retention, this same bird gets lost inside our house.

For this same reason, cockatiels that escape from the house, never return.

Apparently they lack the memory to retrace their latest steps, similar to someone with Alzheimers disease.

In the same vein, I don't know of any ironclad method for measuring the memory span of fish.

I don't believe that any fish can be accused of being smart, but unlike a box-of-rocks,

cold-blooded creatures possess the instinctive ability to react to conditions.

When we lived on the shore of Lake Walk-In-Water, I frequently fished from the community pier

during days when I didn't launch my boat. As long as I brought along a lure that I hadn't

recently used, I rarely failed to catch at least one bass from the pier.

In other words, lures that caught bass in the past few days were the worst performing lures,

and any new lure, no matter what it was, would almost always catch at least one bass.

I believe this phenomenon is very significant, because unlike fishing from a boat,

the bass at the pier were essentially a captive audience. For the most part,

I was catching the same population of bass, over-and-over. I can't say that this behavior

is directly linked to the memory of bass, but "change" was clearly the key, and any lure that was "new"

held the most promise.

Roger

Shad_Master reply :

I think fish are like people in one particular way - some are smarter than others. I don't believe that fish have the capacity for rational thought (e.g. oh, this is that same lure I tried to eat last week and got yanked out of the water - I better leave it alone). I do think that instinct is the major factor in why fish do what they do and instinct come from experience combined with natural traits.

Pitchinkid reply :

Quote

We have a cockatiel at home, and for no apparent reason he used to make

a unique outburst once every day in the evening. It wasn't until many weeks later that I finally realized

that our bird was reacting to the theme song at the end of the "Becker" show.

When we moved two years ago, we lost access to that particular TV channel,

and our bird never uttered that sound again. Then a couple months ago, we caught a random episode of "Becker".

Although it was the farthest thought from my mind, our cockatiel suddenly sounded off

in the same unique way when the showed ended, and he hasn't heard that song for almost two years!

Here's the upshot.

While this behavior typifies excellent retention, this same bird gets lost inside our house.

For this same reason, cockatiels that escape from the house, never return.

Apparently they lack the memory to retrace their latest steps, similar to someone with Alzheimers disease.

All that said, I'm not sure of any ironclad method for measuring the memory span of fish.

I don't believe that any fish can be accused of being smart, but unlike a box of rocks,

cold-blooded animals possess the instinctive ability to react to conditions.

When we lived on the shore of Lake Walk-In-Water, I frequently fished from the community pier

during days when I didn't launch my boat. As long as I brought along a lure that I hadn't

recently used, I rarely failed to catch at least one bass from the pier.

In other words, lures that caught bass in the past few days were the worst performing lures,

and any new lure, no matter what it was, would nearly always catch at least one bass.

I believe that this phenomenon is very significant, because unlike fishing from a boat,

the bass at the pier were essentially a captive audience. Basically, I was catching the same population of bass,

over-and-over. I can't say that this behavior is directly linked to the memory of bass,

but "change" was clearly the key, and any lure that was "new" held the most promise.

Roger

good stuff

Crestliner2008 reply :

I do a lot of off-shore, deep water fishing for small mouth bass. Last year I caught a very unusual specimen on the drop shot. It had two black spots on it's forehead and one near the anal fin. Released that bass, as I do all the fish I catch. Couple of days later I caught the same fish again, on a drop shotted Roboworm.

Now to be fair, I don't remember exactly which bait I was using the first time I caught her, but I usually DS with Roboworms about 90% of the time. After that second catch, 3 weeks later, I caught the same bass again, on a drop shotted Roboworm!

I don't know.....I don't think they're that smart! ;D

slonezp reply :

It appears that much, if not all of the research was done in a controlled enviroment. I think fish in a tank are going to act/react differently because there enviroment NEVER changes. Fish living in the wild are constantly changing with their enviroment and I would imagine their instinct to survive is 10x that of a fish in a tank. If they are hungry their metabolism tells them to eat. The fish in tanks know where their next meal is coming from. Why do fish gourge themselves when they have the opportunity? They don't know when the next meal will swim buy.I like everyone else have hooked or caught the same fish multiple times and IMO it's cause they are probably gourging themselves.

clipper reply :

The above discussion is based on the premise that getting hooked is painful for a fish and therefore an unpleasant experience to be avoided. Is there reliable, scientific research to prove that being hooked is a painful experience for a fish? I know they squirm and flop but is that because they are being taken out of their environment? Perhaps the fact that fish can be caugth repeatedly on the same lure is evidence that they don't experience pain in the same way we do.

Sam reply :

Arnolda,

Suggest you and the other guys invest in Dr. Keith A. Jones' book, Knowing Bass, The Scientific Approach to Catching More Fish.

Keith has a section on "Brain, Learning and Instincts" which is excellent.

Keith is the head of research for Berkley.

Book is published by Lyon Press of Guilford, Connecticut.

senile1 reply :

Classical conditioning requires some memory and has been proven in fish, from the studies I have read. I have read of fish that gather near feeders at the approximate time that the feeder runs. I've walked piers where the carp will gather expecting to be fed every time someone walks by because they have been fed before. As Rolo suggested, I have fished small ponds where, after a period of time, the bite on a particular lure decreases with continued use and a different presentation has turned the bite around. It would appear from all of these instances that some sort of conditioned response to stimuli is occurring and is being remembered for a period of time. Of course there are exceptions as there always will be.

senile1 reply :

By the way, Paul Roberts has posted a thread in a post above that contains some excellent research from the Ridge Lake study on bass memory. Check page three of that thread for more information.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
By the way, Paul Roberts has posted a thread in a post above that contains some excellent research from the Ridge Lake study on bass memory. Check page three of that thread for more information.

See BOTH pages 3 and 4. There's a gamut of material on this topic from several aspects.

Now don't run away, this could be a very interesting thread. Keep the various 'experts' in their respective place: as tools -worthwhile background -not an end to discussion.

To try and bring it back around, if ya'll are game, here's my nutshell on the importance of fish learning:

From my experience as well as reading, I believe fish can learn to associate angler activity with danger -as far as certain presentations, but also other aspects of angler activity. They don't think, but can become conditioned maybe a better, safer, word at this point.

I can pretty comfortably say that fish that haven't been fished for are MUCH less affected by conditions, in terms of response to angling. Those with experience in the extreme are MOST vulnerable at certain times, and "timing" becomes a big factor. Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling. It's in the back of my mind though, and I leave room in my tackle bag for this on certain waters.

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor you read so much about in angling literature will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing.

Paul Roberts reply :

Some examples of timing (copied from that other thread).

There are times when bass are most vulnerable to being duped. Capitalize on the conditions, locations, and positions when bass are vulnerable.

Probably the biggest factor is water and sky conditions. Take advantage of low light: time of day, clouds, chop, water color, all help -a lot.

Also, there are patterns/scenarios that will develop you can recognize. They might relate to water conditions, vegetation changes, or preyfish activity. If you pay attention there are LOTS of things you can take advantage of. Keep a log and you'll see the same stuff come around again. Here are a few examples, from the heavily fished ponds I fish, to get you thinking and watching:

1. Ponds usually have certain shorelines that offer a hunting advantage to bass. One I have made good use of is shorelines with a small (2ft) but sharp drop at shore. Bass corral 'gills here and are vulnerable to a lure. Other shorelines are too gradual in slope and 'gills can escape into water too shallow for the bass. Couple this with good lighting conditions and you will make your day right then and there.

2. In some of my ponds filamentous algae grows dense enough by early summer that it breaks free of bottom and gets blown to windward shores. At times, affected by which shoreline it blows onto and sometimes heating of immediate shallows, bluegills and bass will stack up under the algae, often times in only a foot of water.

3. By late May in some of my ponds. damselflies emerge in numbers large enough to draw mature bluegills into the vegetation beds and shoreline cover the damsels emerge from. The larger bass are in there with them. As a long-time fly-fisherman I'm pretty hip to seeing insect emergences and the effects they have on the food chain. A feeding bluegill is a distracted bluegill. Bass know this.

4. I take advantage of the bluegill spawn. There are usually crowds of bass outside 'gill colonies and they are vulnerable to an appropriate well-placed lure. Believe it, even if you can't see them. Find the biggest 'gills, you'll find the biggest bass.

5. I watch for vulnerable individuals. If I see a bass chase prey I get a lure there -immediately. Sometimes I just see a 'gill bolt into the shallows near me. That means there's an aggressive bass very close believe it and move fast. An aggressive bass is as close to a stupid bass as there is (except for maybe a naive aggressive bass). This 20" LM chased a 'gill to my feet. I didn't see the bass but the 'gill was obviously in a panic. I made a short pitch with a jerkbait and ...

6. Get to know individual bass. Some of the largest bass in my ponds have places they habitually go. This changes a bit as things change over the season, but you can get to know fish and be in position to catch them. This "Mama" (that's what I called her) used a particular weedline (edge of a slight bar) and was susceptible to certain lures under low light.

What situations/events/things (what, when, and why's) have you seen and taken advantage of?

J Francho reply :

Quote
From my experience as well as reading, I believe fish can learn to associate angler activity with danger -as far as certain presentations, but also other aspects of angler activity. They don't think, but can become conditioned maybe a better, safer, word at this point.

Like various boat noise. I know that I am at an advantage when fishing from the kayak. I've literally watched fish go about their business in clear water, with a 13' banana floating overhead. I imagine your kick boat has offered similar experiences.

Paul Roberts reply :

Sorry...I was editing the above post and don't want it missed:

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing. Chasing the bait monkey is like chasing your own tail -while the fish are simply elsewhere. If you have location and position down on a particular water then experimenting with lure novelty MIGHT make a difference.

roadwarrior reply :

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

J Francho reply :

Quote
Sorry...I was editing the above post and don't want it missed:
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution.

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing. Chasing the bait monkey is like chasing your own tail -while the fish are simply elsewhere. If you have location and position down on a particular water then experimenting with lure novelty MIGHT make a difference.

Timing and location.....basics of bass fishing!

J Francho reply :

Quote
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.
Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I won't say that the BEST time is mid day, but better than 50% of the biggest fish I've caught came midday.

There is also another thing to consider. Bass have an innate ability to shift from low light vision (rods) to bright light vision (cones) and vice versa faster than many of their prey, supporting their cepuscular (dawn/dusk feeders) reputation.

Could it be, that those bigger bass are feeding mid day, due to the fact that there are less available easy meals due to low light feeding frenzies?

Another piece of the mid day puzzle, especially in regards to tournament play, is that sometimes it takes until 10 am to get things cracking. Especially on a tough day, or in tough conditions, where your game plan went out the window.

Finally, I think most tournaments end at 3 or so as a convenience to the participants. I'd really like to see more "iron man" style events, where you fish from dawn to dusk.

Maybe all of that is off the topic rubbish, LOL.

roadwarrior reply :

Midday = maximum light penetration.

Activating plankton-->craws & baitfish-->predators.

Maybe?

Or, back on topic, maybe bright light triggers

memory and reminds the fat girls to get up

for lunch!

8-)

RoLo reply :

Paul,

Your post is very informative and extremely interesting,

and IMO well worth the time and thought it entailed.

Quote
Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling.

I'm just supposing here, but it's possible that your passing off the "unfamiliarity factor"

a tad too lightly. Micropterus is an opportunist first, and the unforeseen offers no pre-conditioning.

My experience at Walden's Shore private pier was not a revelation but a reaffirmation.

I'm not shy about picking brains, and when the data applies to "when" and "where", I'm all ears.

On the other hand, when it comes to "How" and the hottest lures on the lake, that's a different story.

Unbeknown to the picked brain, the lures most touted by anglers and bait shop owners

are moved to the bottom of my agenda.

Someone with your uncommon observation and cognizance is what I need,

I'd wish you'd give this tack a shot, and I'll bet you'll be able to take it one step farther.

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Quote
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.
Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I won't say that the BEST time is mid day, but better than 50% of the biggest fish I've caught came midday.

There is also another thing to consider. Bass have an innate ability to shift from low light vision (rods) to bright light vision (cones) and vice versa faster than many of their prey, supporting their cepuscular (dawn/dusk feeders) reputation.

Could it be, that those bigger bass are feeding mid day, due to the fact that there are less available easy meals due to low light feeding frenzies?

Another piece of the mid day puzzle, especially in regards to tournament play, is that sometimes it takes until 10 am to get things cracking. Especially on a tough day, or in tough conditions, where your game plan went out the window.

Finally, I think most tournaments end at 3 or so as a convenience to the participants. I'd really like to see more "iron man" style events, where you fish from dawn to dusk.

Maybe all of that is off the topic rubbish, LOL.

RW, that's a really good point. I've had this discussion with other anglers and it became apparent that my view as a small water angler is likely skewed. But it brings up a bunch of questions, some of which J hit on.

If those fish are indeed traveling inshore to snack (some do) you best be offshore from 10-2? Some experienced bigwater anglers have wondered if it's more that by the time they finally find their active fish it's 10am. I would also ask, and I do not know, if you had a choice of conditions at 10-2, would it make any difference whether it's brilliantly sunny or dark and cloudy? Maybe the clouds would make them more vulnerable, or maybe the bright sun would keep them consolidated over deep structure?

If I had to guess it would be that under darker conditions the fish would be more apt to come part way.

So, let me adjust my priorities, and tell me what you think. Assuming these are waters with fishing pressure:

Shallow water:

1. Location and position

2. Conditions (sky/water)

3. Method

4. Lure choice

Deep Water:

1. Location and position

2. Method

3. Lure choice

4. Conditions (sky/water)

To keep things on topic: Waters with virtually no fishing pressure I've had access to were SO much easier to catch fish from. The fish were stupid can't think of a better word. OK -naive.

But there's another thing to consider when trying to tease out the real effects of angling pressure fish population size and competition within. Most of the virgin bass waters I've had the chance to fish had very high populations which were in high competition with each other. Yet even they could become jaded to certain presentations, like Raul mentioned in that other thread.

I remember one particular pond I was not allowed to fish, but that made me drool. The guy had heavily managed a small pond with LM, bluegills, and one rock bass. He kept the population in tight check, and the bluegills had mouths the size of quarters! The rock bass lived under the dock and could be brought up for a good look by wiggling your finger at the surface (conditioning). It had to weigh 2lbs! The owner never offered to let me fish it, but he did say that once a summer he let his grandkids fish it with barbless hooks and he said it was like throwing candy to babies, in his words.

D4u2s0t reply :

Quote
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.
Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I agree, and if I have the time, I head out around 11 or so and stay through the afternoon. Many of my biggest fish have been caught midday.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Paul,

Your post is very informative and extremely interesting,

and IMO well worth the time and thought it entailed.

Quote
Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling.

I'm just supposing here, but it's possible that your passing off the "unfamiliarity factor"

a tad too lightly. Micropterus is an opportunist first, and the unforeseen offers no pre-conditioning.

My experience at Walden's Shore private pier was not a revelation but a reaffirmation.

I'm not shy about picking brains, and when the data applies to "when" and "where", I'm all ears.

On the other hand, when it comes to "How" and the hottest lures on the lake, that's a different story.

Unbeknown to the picked brain, the lures most touted by anglers and bait shop owners

are moved to the bottom of my agenda.

Someone with your uncommon observation and cognizance is what I need,

I'd wish you'd give this tack a shot, and I'll bet you'll be able to take it one step farther.

Roger

Roger, I've seen what I thought were jaded fish to particular things. But they were never something that timing couldn't solve. However I have no control over that. And fishing is all about control -just the ticket to drive a Type A personality into obsession lol. I'll keep your suggestion in mind. I have two particular ponds that have seen a lot of a certain X-Rap and a certain jig (and the ubiquitous Senko -not from my doings lately though) the last couple years. I've been thinking I might try experimenting there with "something else" -after I work em over with the GoTos of course. (You know, I find more Senkos and Senko parts along ponds and in the parking lots than I ever buy.)

As to the Where and When stuff, that was what my post with pics was meant to highlight. Would sure love to hear of others' neat scenarios they've found.

Quote
Midday = maximum light penetration.
Activating plankton-->craws & baitfish-->predators.

Maybe?

Or, back on topic, maybe bright light triggers

memory and reminds the fat girls to get up

for lunch!

8-)

;D ;D Could be any one of those things I suppose. Speaking of lunch .

Good stuff all. My wheels are turning. That's the way I like it.

RoLo reply :

Quote
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.
Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I can relate to both sides of this quandary, but just like Kent,

I too have caught my largest specimens between the hours of 10am and 3pm.

In fact, many of my PBs have fallen withing this timeline, for instance:

largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, northern pike, striped bass and weakfish.

Run-of-the-mill bass seem easiest to catch during transitional periods of lighting,

such as dawn and dusk. Most preyfish possess rod vision, while bass possess

both rod-and-cone vision, which provides color perception and faster adaptation

to light change. This may explain why bass are chiefly diurnal predators,

because the rod vision of baitfish is best adapted to low-light vision after nightfall.

From all appearances, belly-sagging lunkers don't bother waiting for periods of light transition,

but exploit their "cone vision" during midday. Having rod-and-cone vision gives lunker bass

a leg up on most forage fish, which only have rod vision which is advantageous after nightfall.

Roger

Glenn reply :

I removed my posts and those related to it. It seems my posts were taken wrong and offended a few folks. I offered an apology with an explanation, which wasn't accepted.

Reading through those posts, all they did was disrupt an otherwise great discussion, so I removed them in the spirit of keeping it on topic.

Apologies if THAT offends you to, but I don't want to hear it.

Now, back to the discussion at hand....

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Quote
I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.
Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I can relate to both sides of this quandary, but just like Kent,

I too have caught my largest specimens between the hours of 10am and 3pm.

In fact, many of my PBs have fallen withing this timeline, for instance:

largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, northern pike, striped bass and weakfish.

Run-of-the-mill bass seem easiest to catch during transitional periods of lighting,

such as dawn and dusk. Most preyfish possess rod vision, while bass possess

both rod-and-cone vision, which provides color perception and faster adaptation

to light change. This may explain why bass are chiefly diurnal predators,

because the rod vision of baitfish is best adapted to low-light vision after nightfall.

From all appearances, belly-sagging lunkers don't bother waiting for periods of light transition,

but exploit their "cone vision" during midday. Having rod-and-cone vision gives lunker bass

a leg up on most forage fish, which only have rod vision which is advantageous after nightfall.

Roger

That's Doug Hannon's contention -that big bass feed under bright light bc they can. Maybe that's so. I wouldn't know.

There's an oft-cited study looking at bass-bluegill interactions that showed that under bright light, bluegills could see (average sized) bass from a distance, judge their intentions, and steer clear. Below a certain threshold of low light (5lux), the 'gills could not see the bass and the bass had the advantage (supposedly it was claimed they could see better under dim lighting).

Here it is:

Piscivorous Feeding Behavior of Largemouth Bass:

An Experimental Analysis. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 112:508-518 1983.

"...At high light intensities bluegills can locate modest-sized largemouthb bass( 29 cm total length (~12")) long before the predators can locate them, but at low light intensities the advantage is reversed. ..."

I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled. Under dim skies the bass can get much closer and have the obvious opportunity to corner a 'gill.

Observations like this, and many others, have given me insights (I think) into just what makes for "vulnerable" prey. And makes me think a lot about where, when and how I can make my lures appear vulnerable. In my mind it's not some certain sick wiggle, but physical positioning of that lure in relation to cover/structure and a certain bass.

Anyway, we're going way beyond the original topic, although I see our discussion as a relevant offshoot as to what makes bass vulnerable to lures. Conditioning is one of those. It's importance compared to other factors is my interest here.

J Francho reply :

Quote
I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled.

I bet you've seen blue gills get munched by big bass in the same conditions, distracted by their own feeding. I've seen it. I think you pointed out that many of the "misses" on a slow topwater, like a hollow frog in mid day, are actually blue gills getting slammed as they follow, and nip at the legs of the frog bait. I've since confirmed this.

The damsel fly deal is similar, and I have noticed that buzzing/churning surface baits really excel during a hatch. Stanley Ribbits excel here, and maybe they're not keying in on a frog bite, but rather a feeding blue gill bite.

Anyway, back to the tough conditions topic, observations like these, and time on your specific waters will bear out similar detail in your observations.

I've got a quarry close to me, filled with 2-4 lb. smallies. There's largemouth too, but they are difficult to fish from shore. Outside of the spawn, this is a tough place to fish. You might be initially tricked into thinking you've found a honey hole, if you stop by and chuck Spooks and Sammys at dusk on evening. Spend a day there, and you'll see how difficult this place is. Periodically throughout the day, you'll see huge boils of baitfish, as big as a city lot. This gets the hairs on neck standing, usually. If they are close enough, you'll see that they are shad so large, no smallmouth or largemouth north of the Mason-Dixon Line could eat them.

Very discouraging...but, come dusk you'll be destroying smallies on topwaters. One thing, and this goes to conditioning, if the bite slows, change color. The bite will pick up right where left off. Not too many fish this spot, but the few that do know its really tough to fish it all day long. Its a timing thing there.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Quote
I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled.

I bet you've seen blue gills get munched by big bass in the same conditions, distracted by their own feeding. I've seen it. I think you pointed out that many of the "misses" on a slow topwater, like a hollow frog in mid day, are actually blue gills getting slammed as they follow, and nip at the legs of the frog bait. I've since confirmed this.

The damsel fly deal is similar, and I have noticed that buzzing/churning surface baits really excel during a hatch. Stanley Ribbits excel here, and maybe they're not keying in on a frog bite, but rather a feeding blue gill bite.

Anyway, back to the tough conditions topic, observations like these, and time on your specific waters will bear out similar detail in your observations.

I've got a quarry close to me, filled with 2-4 lb. smallies. There's largemouth too, but they are difficult to fish from shore. Outside of the spawn, this is a tough place to fish. You might be initially tricked into thinking you've found a honey hole, if you stop by and chuck Spooks and Sammys at dusk on evening. Spend a day there, and you'll see how difficult this place is. Periodically throughout the day, you'll see huge boils of baitfish, as big as a city lot. This gets the hairs on neck standing, usually. If they are close enough, you'll see that they are shad so large, no smallmouth or largemouth north of the Mason-Dixon Line could eat them.

Very discouraging...but, come dusk you'll be destroying smallies on topwaters. One thing, and this goes to conditioning, if the bite slows, change color. The bite will pick up right where left off. Not too many fish this spot, but the few that do know its really tough to fish it all day long. Its a timing thing there.

A distracted bluegill is what "vulnerable" means to a bass. But I'm much more likely to see breaks under dim conditions. But this is bluegill water. I don't fish shad-based fisheries. I do know I'm much more likely to catch (dupe) those bass under dim conditions. It appears to me too, that bass vision is WAY more keen under very bright conditions, making every lure (in shallow water) look stupid. Throw some chop on the water and things change.

As to those off-times, Bob Underwood in his book "Lunker" describes sitting on bottom in 18fow and staking out a big school of large bass clustered over a weed covered hump. An accompanying angler casts to them and they pay no heed, simply moving aside if the lure passes through. (Oh yeah, the first problem was getting the lure close to the fish lol, as the "experienced" anglers were embarrassed to find out they weren't anywhere near where they thought they were in the water column.) If an angler without an accompanying diver had fished through they'd have thought there were no bass there. At some point, a bass would 'yawn' (interestingly same behavior seen in bass suffering an O2 deficit in respiration studies), flex it's jaws and then the whole school would do it one by one. After this, the angler filled the boat.

Bass don't, cannot, remain active all the time. Too energetically costly, they need to make up for their efforts in calories. If you've ever done any backcountry back-pack hunting with rationed food, you'll appreciate this. On top of this, ectotherms ("cold-blooded") animals are much less capable energetically than endotherms. They rely even more heavily on efficiency down time.

I got to see this once in stark display at one of my ponds: Brilliant blue and crystal water. Some "fish" was racing around under the water at unbelieveable speed. I was shocked! And it didn't stop. It kept ripping around like a jet for probably 2 minutes before it surfaced. Fish??? Not! A merganser. A high octane, high performance endotherm. And it dove like this repeatedly! Looking at that bird made me realize how little we endotherms really understand ectothermy.

Something has to trigger mature bass to make their move to feed. One good answer is distracted bluegills. What might trigger gills to feed? Low light often. As a fly-fisher I could really rattle on about this, but some other thread maybe. One might think it's high light, but the larger zooplankton that feeds on burgeoning phytoplankton actually migrate downward away from light daily, if there are predators (fish) about. This is a classic scenario called DVM diel vertical migration, and it's a direct response to predation.

Anyway, lots of potential scenarios, but there are underlying reasons that can be understood, I think, as key factors that coincide to bring about those 'timing' episodes we look for or, more likely, stumble in on.

RoLo reply :

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

It's all about keen observation -we're all doing it, the prey, the fish, and us.

I actually wrote about some observations of bass hunting behavior in a thread called "Brilliant Blue" a few months ago, esp pertaining to the tactic called "habituation". I believe it puts some things we anglers see in our fishing into focus.

Here it is:

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1250965728/8#8

slonezp reply :

Quote

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

Roger, I agree with your "off" the feed theory but I'll throw this out there. I used to have 2 oscars in a 50gal tank. Once they were done eating the goldfish I'd fed them, they would then proceed to kill every other goldfish in the tank within the next day or so. I imagine it may have started as a territory issue or an agression issue. Either way I do believe because it was in a controlled enviroment the behavior was learned or a "habit" the oscars picked up.

If the survival instinct tells the fish it's hungry and here is an opportunity to binge it's going to feed. They have no ability to reason. It's like an infant child. When the baby is hungry it will cry until he/she is fed. Once the hunger is satisfied the baby stops feeding, AND you CAN'T make it eat any more. I fail to see how a fish that can't think or reason has a memory, whether it be 3 seconds or 3 years.

J Francho reply :

Last year, there was a very good article in In-Fisherman describing agitation. Basically, it involved throwing huge, obnoxiously colored crankbaits and spinnerbaits through an area that held inactive bass, and returning in 30 minutes or so, to find the agitation seemed to turn those inactive bass into active biters.

Reminded me of the walleye guys dragging chain link fence sections to stir up critters, baitfish, and hopefully predators.

Paul Roberts reply :

...or dragging anchors for smallies on Lake O, throwing rocks at stale steelhead (a la Jim Teeny), or multiple casts at isolated cover for LM, or catching the first bass from a school to start a cascade of bites, or....

Here's one I did for stream trout. Wade upstream of a "dead" pool, wade in and turn rocks sending a cloud of silt and critters down into that pool. Go back and run a nymph through. Whap! Whap! Whap! This works for stale steelies too. Throwing rocks was for sighted individuals. All you have to do is move them, come back in 10 minutes and they are biters. But it works for unsighted fish too. You have a run you know there's steelies in, but they're out cold. Wade in and move 'em. Give em 10 minutes and come back. Works for browns too sometimes, but I wait for at least 20 minutes.

KVD talked about targeting areas with high boat traffic, that stir up the vegetation, bottom, and fish. There's also the ploy of hitting boat ramps and catching fish each time a boat launches.

It's not too difficult to imagine what those bass are doing down there -another case of classic conditioning.

Reminds me of another, close to home for you J: Bear CK harbor. Most mornings it was easy to catch 'bows in the estuary, but then it would slow down. I knew where to place a bait where it had the best chance of a passing trout finding it. But, I began to notice that I often caught fish shortly after a boat came or left the launch. I believe it was moving holding fish.

Another: Bob Underwood reported a couple guys who had a cool gig going on canals in Florida. During the day the bass were tough to catch, and most people hung it up. These guys trolled at (relatively) high speed, running their lures just behind where the boat wake crashed into the overhung shoreline. He said the results were amazing.

One thing I haven't done, is throw rocks into slop fields I know there are bass under. I wonder if there are times when it would work. Catt talks about shaking jigs in heavy cover, and being patient about it, so the bass can find that lure. I wonder if pitching few rocks might change the game some. Somedays it might just be worth a shot. Hey...how about dragging a frog bait over slop to stir up the 'gills LOL.

Last one: One day my 3 year old son was with me on a pond. I gave him a stick (pretend fishing rod) to play with. He was thrilled to just tap it on the surface. Before long, bluegills appeared, then more. After about 5 minutes of this a large eye with a dark stripe appeared -LM. Then another. Flipping a worm I caught two.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Quote

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

Roger, I agree with your "off" the feed theory but I'll throw this out there. I used to have 2 oscars in a 50gal tank. Once they were done eating the goldfish I'd fed them, they would then proceed to kill every other goldfish in the tank within the next day or so. I imagine it may have started as a territory issue or an agression issue. Either way I do believe because it was in a controlled enviroment the behavior was learned or a "habit" the oscars picked up.

If the survival instinct tells the fish it's hungry and here is an opportunity to binge it's going to feed. They have no ability to reason. It's like an infant child. When the baby is hungry it will cry until he/she is fed. Once the hunger is satisfied the baby stops feeding, AND you CAN'T make it eat any more. I fail to see how a fish that can't think or reason has a memory, whether it be 3 seconds or 3 years.

Oscars aren't bass, and are known to be highly territorial. I believe it is suggested they be kept alone -not with other fish. I've only kept one bass (a smallmouth) in an aquarium for a short time, but some BR members have them I know, and would guess that after they're sated they do not kill of things in a territorial way like Oscars will. Maybe someone will pipe in on that. I will say it was tough to sate the little smallie I had. He would eat minnow until his belly was packed and had tails sticking out of his mouth lol.

And, despite what we read over and over again, bass are not territorial in this way, most of the time. Pecking order sure, but they are instead most apt to be cooperative. But "territoriality" can develop in relatively rare instances, over time, and an aquarium could be just such a place. Here's one example in a pond situation -a great read:

http://www.in-fisherman.com/content/bass-territorial-imperative

Hammer 4 reply :

I use to breed Oscars...and no you can't keep other fish with them. I did have a placostumus(sp) for keeping the tank clean, but it was a fairly large one. Still the Oscars tried to keep it cornered, this was in a 100 gal. aquarium with a breeding pair of fish.

WRB reply :

Activity level may not have anything to do with memory, but it can over come the sense of fear.

The late Tom Mann has a chapter in his book; Think like a Fish, where he relates to stirring up wed beds to generate bass feeding activity. Tom would run his big engine through weed beds to chop them up and get the baitfish hiding within the weeds exposed so bass would start to feed on them. Clever concept that works very well. Bass became active and over came the fear of noise and boats to take advantage of an easy meal.

WRB

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
Activity level may not have anything to do with memory, but it can over come the sense of fear.
The late Tom Mann has a chapter in his book; Think like a Fish, where he relates to stirring up wed beds to generate bass feeding activity. Tom would run his big engine through weed beds to chop them up and get the baitfish hiding within the weeds exposed so bass would start to feed on them. Clever concept that works very well. Bass became active and over came the fear of noise and boats to take advantage of an easy meal.

WRB

Yes! And it brings up the conundrum you warned of in your earlier post -trying to understand fish (in this case) through the human filter. One might think that bass would be afraid of an outboard motor -that loud water churning monster. But divers have consistently commented that that often isn't the case, especially in waters where motors are commonplace. What is much more apt to frighten them are shadows and water thrusts as in canoe (and kayak) paddles, or swim fins according to diver Bob Underwood. (I didn't respond to you John, earlier, bc it's not simple. I believe Underwood, but think there's real contextual stuff there that must be in play.)

From Ralph Manns:

Heavily pressured bass are harder to catch because they have focused on one or more of the warning signals produced by typical anglers. It may be noises of troll motors, the pressure waves created by a moving boat, visual or vibrational evidence of a line moving through water, unnatural movement of shape of a lure, boat or sonar noises, or a million other potential negative stimuli that a bass may receive while being reeled to a bass boat and netted.

At the same time, they easily learn to ignore passing outboard motors and noises from overhead docks that are not immediately associated with the "being hooked" experience. Bass learn to ignore jet skis, skiers, and swimmers. I've watched bass underwater as they examined the toes of swimming children and saw them feed while a man hammered to repair his sailboat overhead.

Associate a food reward with an outboard motor and the bass are happy to line right up.

Paul Roberts reply :

Interesting stuff, but me thinks we're drifting off topic. Problem is, the topic, and the terms being thrown about, like "memory" and "learning" may not be well understood. It's certainly not my line of work; Just a lowly fisherman I am ;D.

I noticed Bob Lusk has offered a rebuttle to Ralph Manns article "How Smart Are Bass?" in the articles section. He claims "15 minutes". And that conditioning and memory are different. In my ignorance I'm pretty much lumping it all under learning trying to stay relevant to angler's interests. Are bass able to avoid lures/anglers after exposure to them? I guess I'd need to know where Bob got that number, and what that definition of "memory" is.

Too many research pieces or researcher's comments have shown bass have an ability to avoid lures for much longer periods, up to 3 months.

I am left here to wonder -what is the rigorous definition of "memory", vs "learning" vs "conditioning". I do remember from my education psychology classes the (human) distinctions: register, short term, and long term memory. I would certainly call "conditioning" a type of learning, but does it count as memory? And is "memory" just after one exposure? How many people can do that? Gosh, I took calculus once upon a time but cannot remember even one of those theorems. Use it or lose it. Is that not some form of conditioning?

Bob also mentions that for bass a lure either represents food or not food. But is that not a form of learning, and if it persists, is that not memory? From my own observations though, I believe I can take it a step further, in that the sight of a lure can actually scare a bass into flight. Not food doesn't do that. On one particular outing sight fishing to good numbers of smallies I was aware of the possibility that they saw me, my casting motion, or my line shadow (which will spook them), and I was able to separate this on several occasions when the cast settled way ahead of the bass' travel route and the eventual sight of the bait made them bolt! I was quite convinced (but not closed) that it's more than "food" or "not food" -it's "danger".

How long might that persist? That's the question. According to some researcher's it CAN be as much as months. This brings me back to what works for me in my fishing, pay attention to conditions and physical elements that you can take advantage of. The playing field is ever-changing.

WRB reply :

The difference in memory and learned condition is a grey line when thinking in terms of fish behavior or animal behavior in general. We humans believe that we alone have the ability to reason. The truth is we are still developing our learning skills. It;s not too far fetched to believe that bass are developing learning skills in environments that require new skills.

Animals can't reason, then Alex the African parrot comes along and changes our perception of avian intelligence.

Keep an open mind, it may help you to be a better fisherman. When basses environment is quite, loud unusual noise may alarm them, however the same noises around a marina may not. I prefer the quite approach, but that doesn't mean it's always the best technique, it's what I'm conditioned to believe.

WRB

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