Petition To Ban Lead Fishing Tackle Rejected 2024
Blue Streak reply :
Well I guess the fishing lobbyist did a good job so it looks like we can still use lead. Whether you are for against this issue I think it is a good thing that we have once again stopped the goverment from running our lives.
Crestliner2008 reply :
You are SOOOO lucky! "They" (Fish & Wildlife) just banned lead in my state this years. Talk about an expensive compliance! I've dumped nearly $70. so far in replacing only a small portion of the jig heads, lures and weighted hooks I have. More to do yet. 
A more "sensible" approach would to insure that a cost effective replacement is available, through local retailers, before even considering such a ban. But then again, politicians and special interest groups are never sensible. Good luck to you!
Nitrofreak reply :
Yes, but that does not mean that city and county rules don't apply or the state for that matter, some have already banned parts of lead usage on their waters.
I understand the whole lead problem and yes there are solutions, but really, how bad of an issue is this right now ?
Have the lead levels reached such astronomical levels in our waters that it really requires any part of our government to take action? where is the proof that fishing lures are a threat to our society?
Taking care of our waters is something we all should be responsible for, I get that, and getting away from lead I think is a good thing but there has to be a cost effective plan put in place for a safe "environmentally friendly" alternative before GREENPEACE starts freaking out.
jignfule reply :
if they fail, they will try again
J Francho reply :
They don't ban lead because of "lead levels" in the water, they ban it because of a couple of dead loons.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 1:49 AM, J Francho said:They don't ban lead because of "lead levels" in the water, they ban it because of a couple of dead loons.
You can't be serious.
J Francho reply :
These are the guys that show up, and get state laws changed: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/loons/
SirSnookalot reply :
There may be alternatives that may be as cost effective as lead. Scrap tires come to mind, many are use as landfill and artificial reefs, sounds like they may be environmentally friendly. Many are steel belted so there is sinkabilty, additives would help as well. There is a never ending supply. Just a thought, I'm sure it's been thought of already.
J Francho reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 2:18 AM, SirSnookalot said:There may be alternatives that may be as cost effective as lead. Scrap tires come to mind, many are use as landfill and artificial reefs, sounds like they may be environmentally friendly. Many are steel belted so there is sinkabilty, additives would help as well. There is a never ending supply. Just a thought, I'm sure it's been thought of already.
What process could possibly turn scrap tires into jigs, spinnerbaits, bullet sinkers, etc? I'm serious, I'd like to hear this one.
ClackerBuzz reply :
loon in the coal mine?
KCL655321 reply :
I'm all for getting rid of lead, if there's a non-toxic alternative that's as effective & affordable as it to take it's place, which there isn't as far as I know. Tungsten is expensive & can't be poured onto hooks without damaging them, which I think is a downfall for steel & brass as well. You'd think in this day & age with all the fancy alloys & compounds they could develop something that has the same characteristics as lead without the toxicity & high costs, but apparently not.
J Francho reply :
Tungsten isn't poured at all. Basically they form it under great pressure, which creates great heat. That's why it's so expensive. Lead, in the form we use for fishing isn't toxic unless burned or swallowed.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 2:29 AM, J Francho said:What process could possibly turn scrap tires into jigs, spinnerbaits, bullet sinkers, etc? I'm serious, I'd like to hear this one.
I have no idea of how a scrap tire could be molded into form, but if there is a will there may be a way. Let me give you an example of how another item is made. In most cars, gears that are made for transmissions, rear ends and clutch plates are not made of steel but made of powdered iron with a few trace elements like ni, and cu., this powder has the consistency of granular sugar. The powder is placed in a mold of the part, then put into presses 200 tons to 1000 tons, pressed and now you have a part, But it's not the finished product as it's soft and crumbles. The part is then placed in oven and heat treated, a process called sintering, now you have a part that can be used trucks, autos, tractors, etc. The company I serviced was Borg Warner Automotive, parts were made for GM, Chrysler, Yamaha, Toyota, Nissan and others. The new powder was supplied a company called Hoeganes. Sorry for the long winded explanation, but my point is, that if people see a need to do something, they can generally do it. After all we put a man on the moon.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone figured a way to turn scrap tires or some other waste product into a usable item for weights and jig heads. Maybe this way, shred the tire, soften it with heat, add some type of resin for weight, mold it press it under several hundred tons of pressure, sounds doable, kinda reminds me of plastic inject molding.
I'm all for keeping things the way they are. BTW lead is cheap, about .92 lb on the kitco, tungsten is over 20.00 a pound.
http://www.877ironmike.com/metal-prices
J Francho reply :
That's fine and dandy, you make iron parts from sintered iron - not surprising to me. Baits out of discarded tires? That's a stretch. Even if there was a way, the process would be expensive.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 2:16 AM, J Francho said:These are the guys that show up, and get state laws changed: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/loons/
If I read this correctly the text reads as if almost half (44%) of the "breeding" loons are dieing of lead poisoning "due" to fishing sinkers etc...
In the toxicology report it does not reflect the same statement that was made.
1,500 dead birds from chick to adult,
lead poisoning, Fishing gear, unknown reasons for death
Chick = N/A 1% 26%
Immature loon = 4% 6% 28%
Adult loon = 25% 9% 38%
Out of that from the report where does 44% of death by lead fishing gear come from?, more die from unknown causes and trama than anything else listed.
I am all about wildlife and the great outdoors and preserving it for future generations but in the famous words of our great spokesman of Monday night countdown....cuuuummmmooon man!!
J Francho reply :
QuoteOut of that from the report where does 44% of death by lead fishing gear come from?
Thin air. It's bull.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 4:41 AM, J Francho said:Thin air. It's bull.
X2, Thanx for the link by the way !
River Rat316 reply :
if you can get tungsten for $20 a pound I would buy that all day, the last time I checked the going rate for tungsten in powdered form to be pressed it was over $78 a pound, as opposed to about $.25 a pound I pay for lead. You also have to remember the weight factor, I am sure there would be a process to melt down just about anything and get it into a jig or sinker form, but it will not have the weight needed unless your adding tungsten powder, which is again $78 a pound. Your also adding huge manufacturing costs to the process that don't need to be added. there are more loons in this country right now than there was 75 years ago, so tell me, how much is lead effecting them if there over all numbers are rising?
SirSnookalot reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 4:37 AM, J Francho said:That's fine and dandy, you make iron parts from sintered iron - not surprising to me. Baits out of discarded tires? That's a stretch. Even if there was a way, the process would be expensive.
I don't think it's a stretch at all, I think it's real doable. Haven't the faintest idea of the expense, the raw product is dirt cheap, labor about the same, but equipment is expensive. I knew a guy about 30 years ago, created a process to shred and pelletize used beverage bottles, he then sold the pellets back to the beverage companies for the production of new bottles. Anything can be done, if the desire is there.
I'd rather see things stand pat.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 4:56 AM, River Rat316 said:there are more loons in this country right now than there was 75 years ago
Both humans and birds HA!!
J Francho reply :
You can say that again!
A-Jay reply :
Loons are great - especially with a nice Chardonnay.
A-Jay
River Rat316 reply :
lol was thinking the same thing about the populations rising for both when I typed that...
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/16/2012 at 5:28 AM, A-Jay said:Loons are great - especially with a nice Chardonnay.
A-Jay
I prefer a long neck ice cold Bud myself...you wine people are just to civilised, you all need to come my way and learn how to loosen up and unwind a little...lol.
I will be sure not to overcook it...I wouldn't want to melt the lead, it'l make it taste funny.
tate reply :
Always an interesting topic .....
NCbassmaster4Life reply :
If there ever is a ban of lead, a lot of companies are gonna have to switch to a better alternative and besides tungston...hmmm.. there are other elements that aren't hazardous to the enviornment.
SirSnookalot reply :
Long before the age of computers typeset was used in printing presses, linotype, tin, antimony and other lead alloys were used. Workers handled the typeset constantly all day long. I personally have been in many lead smelting operations, those workers are dealing with fumes as well as handling the material. Of the people I have encountered, quite a few have had very long lives, didn't seem none the worse for wear. Xray techs constantly handle lead, many radioactve medicines are packaged in lead.
I wonder if there is any data linking life expectency and sickness of those that handled lead and it's alloys to back up this scare.
Raider Nation Fisher reply :
It's all smoke and mirrors. The tree huggers, (bird huggers?) will always find something to complain about. Give it time, once they start finding dead birds with tungsten in them, they'll blame it. These people just won't ever be happy. Plus according to they're chart more die from unknown causes then anything else. How much you want to bet, the next ban will be on "unknown".
Here's a solution, use Stainless Steel, I here it is bad for all wildlife. Or better yet Uranium sinkers. That would kill most everything. I mean we wouldn't want to discriminate now would we?
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 3:01 PM, SirSnookalot said:Long before the age of computers typeset was used in printing presses, linotype, tin, antimony and other lead alloys were used. Workers handled the typeset constantly all day long. I personally have been in many lead smelting operations, those workers are dealing with fumes as well as handling the material. Of the people I have encountered, quite a few have had very long lives, didn't seem none the worse for wear. Xray techs constantly handle lead, many radioactve medicines are packaged in lead.
I wonder if there is any data linking life expectency and sickness of those that handled lead and it's alloys to back up this scare.
Most all of the ways that we use lead today are protected in ways that we do not come in direct contact, X-ray techs use plates that are sealed as are the radioactive medicines too.
I have been in the automotive industry for 40 years now, I used to restore and customise older vehicles, lead was used to put together roof tops and other various parts on vehicles all the way through the 70's, during that time I have handeled lead in many different ways.
It has been handeled with care over my time as a tech, the only ones that have been effected by lead poisoning are usually the ones that did not know the long term effects of lead, either through pure stupidity or through companies that just did not give a crap about their employees and were not educated about the effects, tough pill to swollow I know, but way back when, you worked and were happy to have a job no matter the conditions.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 9:17 AM, NCbassmaster4Life said:If there ever is a ban of lead, a lot of companies are gonna have to switch to a better alternative and besides tungston...hmmm.. there are other elements that aren't hazardous to the enviornment.
As far as I know and the way I read the statement published by this group, there is a variety of ways these birds develop lead poisoning, but the only one they mentioned is lead from fishing tackle.
The way I see it is they are really going way too far to ban the way we use lead, now I fully understand why they are doing this, what I mean to say is we have to look at it this way, we love to fish and we are very passionate about all things related to our sport, but at the same time they are very passionate about their birds, I totally get that, but they are in very early stages of what could happen if this method is continued to be used in the manner we use them, a few birds out of 1,500 may not be a big deal to us and to most it's not, myself included, but a few years down the road...maybe.
Do we need a ban on lead fishing gear now?, HELL NO !, do we need to find an alternitive?, it wouldn't hurt to start discussions on a safe, economical alternitive I think.
Here is my thoughts at least for now, until we can find that enviromentally friendly solution, most lead uses today are sealed in one form or another to help protect it in the enviroments in which we use it for, why can't we at the very least coat the lead in a durable coating of some shape or form to protect it if it should be injested.
fowlskies reply :
What I want to know is; does the fishing industry have an organization with lobbyists to fight these irrational organization's false claims aimed at their agendas, like the hunting and gun industry has the NRA, Ducks Unlimited, ect.? Of course they didn't do to well with the lead ban in waterfowl hunting. But does BASS, FLW and others have lobbyists to stand up for the everyday fisherman against these PETA backed/wannabe so called conservation organizations?
Although I would be a proud member of PETA if you are talking about People Eating Tastey Animals. I would fully support that organization. 
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 11:28 PM, fowlskies said:Although I would be a proud member of PETA if you are talking about People Eating Tastey Animals. I would fully support that organization.
I am the president of that club and I have the T-Shirt to prove it!!!
You are welcome to join if you like...membership is free.
J Francho reply :
If you think you are battling PETA over this issue, you are sorely mistaken. What you are up against is a knee jerk, emotional response from the common public (anglers and non anglers alike) when shown gory autopsy photos of a few a dead loons, showing the results of ingesting lead. The next sentence is that this is from lead sinkers, and that is that. It's an easy decision when it seems that simple. The facts are, lead from fishing isn't impacting the loon population one bit.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 11:50 PM, J Francho said:The facts are, lead from fishing isn't impacting the loon population one bit.
I would have to agree with you there, studies show growing numbers in loon populations not a decline.
Gatorbassman reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 11:28 PM, fowlskies said:What I want to know is; does the fishing industry have an organization with lobbyists to fight these irrational organization's false claims aimed at their agendas, like the hunting and gun industry has the NRA, Ducks Unlimited, ect.? Of course they didn't do to well with the lead ban in waterfowl hunting. But does BASS, FLW and others have lobbyists to stand up for the everyday fisherman against these PETA backed/wannabe so called conservation organizations?
Although I would be a proud member of PETA if you are talking about People Eating Tastey Animals. I would fully support that organization.
I wish other states would do the same thing as Georgia. First of all we voted to have fishing and hunting protected in our state's constitution. We have Legislative rules in place that state that any proposed law that involves fish, wildlife, or any other natural resource must be approved by the Department of Natural Resources and/or Fish and Wildlife before it is brought up for vote in Congress or placed on a ballot for the general public. Then we have a grass roots organization called The Georgia Outdoor Network that is set up in a way that information can be passed around to all concerned sportsmen in a matter of hours. So if any animal rights group is pulling any of their tricks with any government office we all can be notified so we can flood the phones of our representatives almost instantly.
fowlskies reply :
It probally does have to start at the state level but here in NY I think most issues like this go through our DEC first and we still ended up with a ban on lead sinkers less than an oz. We almost need an organization that is on the polar opposite end to fight these orgs, one that will go to the extent that these "PETA" orgs will go to but just in the opposite point of view. At that point a good even middle ground can be reached (its sad but its true). I honestly believe we would have gun laws simular to that of the British if it wasn't for the NRA and simular organizations sticking up for the 2nd admendment. It looks like the fishing industry is next in line for these "conservation" groups and we need a good clear, loud voice to combat them.
J Franco, sorry but if you think that these groups don't have PETAish tendencies then you're sorely mistaken. What do you think PETA's main weapon is? Its those gory photos you're talking about. They use them to get knee jerk reactions from the non-informed public to help thier agenda.
Quillback reply :
It's great that some states have sportsmen rights protection processes, but this proposed ban was on a federal level. If it ever gets passed into law, it will be a nationwide ban. States would be forced to comply.
J Francho reply :
QuoteJ Franco, sorry but if you think that these groups don't have PETAish tendencies then you're sorely mistaken.
I didn't say that. The fact is, this "ban lead movement" originates from a Tufts University college professor's study. It's NEVER represented as PETA based. The study preys upon emotion about loons. Loons disappear when there is pollution and water quality issues. They have made quite the comeback in the last decade, and they represent environmental recovery to many. It's those people that associate the health of the ecosystem with the loon's success that these guys ensnare. Trust me, I live in a state with a lead ban and it wasn't a bunch of PETA/treehuggers that banned it. It was a mislead (no pun intended) voting public.
slonezp reply :
On 2/17/2012 at 11:28 PM, fowlskies said:What I want to know is; does the fishing industry have an organization with lobbyists to fight these irrational organization's false claims aimed at their agendas, like the hunting and gun industry has the NRA, Ducks Unlimited, ect.? Of course they didn't do to well with the lead ban in waterfowl hunting. But does BASS, FLW and others have lobbyists to stand up for the everyday fisherman against these PETA backed/wannabe so called conservation organizations?
Although I would be a proud member of PETA if you are talking about People Eating Tastey Animals. I would fully support that organization.
http://youtu.be/3VCXqrlKkSg
related General Bass Fishing Forum topic
next topic
most viewed General Bass Fishing Forum topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.