Reading the timber 2024

fishfordollars reply :

Just wondering if anyone ever took the time to study types of trees, the type of soil that they generally grow in, and which ones grow in different terrains.

When you pull up to an area and all you can see are acres of the rotted bare post sticking above the water it helps to know whether these five to twenty feet tall tree stumps originally grew in a bottom land setting or were prominate in a higher elevation. If you can it immediately shows you where the humps, ridges, and creeks are located. You don't need a depth finder for this and it immediately cancels out 90% of the water that will hold no fish.

Some will show you a clay bottom, but others will never grow there and need a sandy type soil to grow. Which grow where?

Let's hear your thoughts and see what you really know about following creeks and drains, as well as picking out the humps and ridges in a flooded forrest.

Matt Fly reply :

Jack, for those of us who bass fished before good topos or graphs came about, reading the surrounding areas dry ground was important to get a feel for what the lake should look like underneath.

Learning that larger trunked trees normally means depth, such as creek channels, river channels, and sharp drop offs.

Also knowing what type a tree it is can tell you what kind of canopy is under the water. Above timber rots, there still lots of timber under water.

Identifing the types of trees in your areas that grow on knolls and rolling flats can help find those subtle humps on the flats.

We know as we move south, south west, we see more mesquite, ,salt cedar, and cedar as some common types of brush and pecan trees along river bottoms and such.

Same with plants and soils they like to grow in.

Love good post like this.

fishfordollars reply :

Yes Matt, I guess all the younger guys never had to figure it out without any of the equipment that's out there today. I really figured some would give it a go, but so far no one seems willing to get involved in the discussion.

cart7t reply :

I'm quoting Jimmy Houston here

"I can't tell an apple tree from a peach tree unless it's got apples on it."

Pretty much where I stand on my arborist knowledge.

JuniorFisherJJ08 reply :

This thread is way over my head. I can tell trees apart by leaves, and bark, color. but getting into what types of soil etc. WAY WAY over my head. There is electronics. that tell me what i need to know. I think reading electronics is just as hard as studying the trees etc.

Catt reply :

You see Jack these youngsters don't care to learn; just give them a GPS waypoint, a big dollar lure, a high speed reel, and a glitzy boat so they can imitate KVD.

There is no more apprenticeships where by anglers learn from the bottom up; I was told by a young student why learn ole school when we have the technological advancements for immediate success.

Busy reply :

I sort of resent where this thread is going!

Lots of young guys like me go out fishing several times a week with no boat and no fish finder technology. We hike our way around the lake. Nothing makes my day like outfishing someone on a boat when they come in. I'll admit that I don't know a whole lot about trees but I study the landscape at every body of water I go to.

Valleys are easy to spot. Finding channels are a little bit trickier. I've been way more of a cat-fish guy but am trying to translate that knowledge into catching good bass. We find valleys and channels and hit the edges of them where cover is the most plentiful before the drop-off. I'm a bit tired of having to find vegetation and structure with my lures so please keep the information coming in this thread (without the throws to guys my age).

SDoolittle reply :

Quote

why learn ole school when we have the technological advancements for immediate success.

I have a very similar situation at work. I am constantly explaining to the young Soldiers that even in a modern, technologically advanced world with a global positioning system, Soldiers still need to be trained on how to navigate using a map, compass and other low-tech tools.

The same thing aplies to fishing. We have the technology and a thorough understanding of it will, without a doubt, improve our fishing success. But what happens when technology fails? What happens when you fish a small lake without a "hot spots" map?

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I sort of resent where this thread is going!
Lots of young guys like me go out fishing several times a week with no boat and no fish finder technology. We hike our way around the lake. Nothing makes my day like outfishing someone on a boat when they come in. I'll admit that I don't know a whole lot about trees but I study the landscape at every body of water I go to.

Valleys are easy to spot. Finding channels are a little bit trickier. I've been way more of a cat-fish guy but am trying to translate that knowledge into catching good bass. We find valleys and channels and hit the edges of them where cover is the most plentiful before the drop-off. I'm a bit tired of having to find vegetation and structure with my lures so please keep the information coming in this thread (without the throws to guys my age).

You shouldn't, it's only designed to make you think about the situation. Not meant to provoke anyone. When you loose the will to reason or learn you hinder your ability to improve yourself. Electronics fail, and it will help you if you have an understanding of the terrain above and below the water.

The modern day advantages we all have access to are outstanding. I wish I had taken more time to familiarize myself with this subject early on in my younger days. I would have been a lot more successful if I had.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
This thread is way over my head. I can tell trees apart by leaves, and bark, color. but getting into what types of soil etc. WAY WAY over my head. There is electronics. that tell me what i need to know. I think reading electronics is just as hard as studying the trees etc.

I'll have to disagree here. Reading and usage of today's electronics is a lot harder than reading the trees. At least it is for me.

Good point.

Busy reply :

Sorry if I did not make myself clear. I do indeed want to learn more about identifying things in the landscape because I do not have all these little tech toys.

Sure technology is nice but would you hike for 9 days with a GPS and not take a compass and map? No way. But I'd take a compass and map and forget the GPS easily. Especially if my destination is small and remote. A GPS will easily get you lost sometimes.

Not like I'm seriously provoked or angry, just wishing more people would be talking about how things in the landscape effect bass and bass fishing, instead just claiming that people don't wanto to learn those things.

Catt reply :

Today's technological advancements will put you on a specific location on a piece of structure but it is still up to the angler to locate the sweet spots on the structure. To those of us who are adept at map reading can see a likely looking piece of structure, use the maps grid with/without a Coordinate Scale and figure GPS coordinates. Once on that specific piece of structure we can decipher possible sweet spots by looking at tree/brush or vegetations types.

Busy, if you do not fit that category why the resentment?

fishfordollars reply :

Busy, thanks, more good points you raise. The younger generation, many times, is accused of taking short cuts, and I for one think they are not given the credit due.

Back to the subject. Can someone tell me the location the following trees typically grow? To keep it simple let's group them instead of breaking them down into all the different subspecies. Feel free to add any you like.

Pine

Oak

Sweetgum

Cedar

Mesquite

Elm

Matt Fly reply :

Don't need electronics to tell me that the bass are on beds when the dogwoods are in bloom in east Tx.

You don't need to watch the weather, or be near the water, worry if its too early in Feb or March, don't need water temp reports, just look out your window when travelling about and you'll know when to go look for bedders.

If you can identify a lobloly pine tree from sight in the water, you will know that mature pines will not have sparse branches close to the bottom, and what arms or branches are there will be further up in the water column.

If you didn't know that a cypress grows roots that bend up, called knees by some, that the larger the cypress, the further out those knees will be from the tree. You might have just pitched to the base off the tree and never hit its outer root system.

Lots of things electronics don't tell ya.

Raul reply :

In my neck of the woods there are only two kind of trees that grow wild naturally:

Willows

Mesquite

Willows only grow where the soil is moist year your, that only happens along rivers and creeks, since they are quite durable and the tree remains standing where it grew for a good couple of decades you see a drowned willow you can bet the river bed/creek channel is not too far away from the main trunk, since they don 't grow just like that all by their lonesome a row of willows is telling you that the river/creek bed is at their feet, so you alos know that not only there 's a depth change, in my neck of the woods the bottom composition of rivers and creeks is sandy with rocks.

Mesquite grow on all kinds of soil, unlike willows, they don 't like to get their feet wet but they are mainly solitary trees, few plants can grow underneath them because of their umbrella shape crown, they normally prefer flats and once they drown the way the branches extend and how they bend immediately tell you it 's a mesquite.

Other native plants in my neck of the woods are huizache brush, those grow on anything and everywhere, cacti and yucca are also common but none of those last more than a decade, once they rot they are gone forever.

Matt Fly reply :

Raul, is there any cactus or wild flowers that blooms in Mexico that might indicate bass are on the beds?

In Texas, we have lots of stock tanks or ponds, and you'll find lots of willows in those areas as well. Willows always seem to find the waters edge.

Raul reply :

Taking advantage of the drought we had down here 4 or 5 years ago I took some pics, I 've fished this lake since 1980 ( lake waas formed in the mid 70 's, when I began fishing there the willows still had leaves ) and I had never seen it so low, this area is normally under 30 ft+ of water, yup, willows !, look how they are positioned, they follow the river. This is one of my favorite spots in this lake, it 's got:

The willows

The old hacienda ruins ( rock/brick piles )

The flat on which the hacienda ruins are standing on,

The flat is surrounded by a river bend on 3 sides.

The river bed

fishfordollars reply :

That is beautiful country.

Raul reply :

Quote
Raul, is there any cactus or wild flowers that blooms in Mexico that might indicate bass are on the beds?

Nope, by the time bass are on the beds there 's nothing blooming yet, bass here bed in mid March-early April, that 's the end of the dry season, wild plants and cacti begin blooming until late May when the first rains of the rainy season begin.

Raul reply :

Here 's a pic taken on the same place but looking towards the shore, look at it closely and you 'll see the max level the water can rise, you can clearly see where the vegetation begins, all that green you see is huizache brush ( remember I said that those grow on anything ), below it you see only a surface lacking of vegetation. In the good all days when the lake was younger what you see above that line ( all that brush ) was also underwater, it was a jungle and a snag paradise ( just ask me how many lure I lost in there ), now all that 's left is the bare soil, the huizache rotted away quite fast, but the willows and the few mesquites are still standing there.

IdahoLunkerHunter reply :

I do believe many fisherman out there look at their electronics rather than looking at the lay of the land first. I have a bay that consistently produces for me because I have researched the shoreline more than the depth contour on my finder. I have seen so many people just drive right over my honey hole because they do not look at the shore line pea gravel. Changes in soil and cover from shoreline directly relates to where fish are going to be in the water IMO.

Raul reply :

Water plants also talk to you, weedbeds have a particular layout ( if you take your time to observe them ) because weeds only grow under certain circumstances and upon a particular kind of bottom composition, otherwise they don 't grow, so add what you see above water level to the particular layout of the weedbed and you 'll know what 's underneath and where the fish will most probably be.

The old say says: 90 % of the fish are in 10 % of the water, and 10% of the fiherman catch the 90% of the fish.

So we back again to step one: where to find the fish ? in the 10% of the productive water, why fish the remaining 90% if they aren 't there ?.

And then you blame the GPS, the lure, the boat, the conditions, the moon phase for having a bad day. :

Paul Roberts reply :

The electronics offer a signal. Your interpretation is only as good as what you actually know about what is producing those signals.

Good post.

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
is there any cactus or wild flowers that blooms in Mexico that might indicate bass are on the beds?

I've tried to do this. Since I follow the spawn on a series of ponds I look at flowering trees and shrubs. I especially paid attention to wild plum bc they are so common.

The facts were: The different ponds spawned at different times within the same year, varying by about a week and a half due to differences in volume mostly. The plums? Depended on the individual clump I looked at. They varied as much as 3 weeks! Some were on there way out while others were just starting to blossom. No help there!

Each water is slightly different and each year is slightly different. Plants may show individual variation that makes them, as a species, not very accurate in making predictions about what the fish are doing. Now, pick an individual tree and maybe. But...which one? :-/

Apparently TX dogwoods are a lot more consistent, and tied to the bass spawn, than are Colorado plums.

jax reply :

I would love to learn to find fish and structure without having to use electronics. The problem is I know of no one around me that can even come close to fishing like that. It isn't from lack of wanting to learn. It is the lack of someone to teach.

Most people I know aggressively power fish anymore. They hit a spot a few times then move on. It is hard to learn when you are constantly moving. The reason I am always told is why waste time trying to catch fish that are skittish and don't want to bite. Drives me insane.

That is my rant for the day. I swear I wish some of you guys were in southern Indiana. Anywho. Any advice is more than welcome.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I would love to learn to find fish and structure without having to use electronics. The problem is I know of no one around me that can even come close to fishing like that. It isn't from lack of wanting to learn. It is the lack of someone to teach.
Most people I know aggressively power fish anymore. They hit a spot a few times then move on. It is hard to learn when you are constantly moving. The reason I am always told is why waste time trying to catch fish that are skittish and don't want to bite. Drives me insane.

That is my rant for the day. I swear I wish some of you guys were in southern Indiana. Anywho. Any advice is more than welcome.

We can certainly start a thread on that.

mattm reply :

Quote
You see Jack these youngsters don't care to learn; just give them a GPS waypoint, a big dollar lure, a high speed reel, and a glitzy boat so they can imitate KVD.
There is no more apprenticeships where by anglers learn from the bottom up; I was told by a young student why learn ole school when we have the technological advancements for immediate success.

Yes you are absolutely right. ANYONE younger than you tries to do it the easy way. We are all lazy and lucky they allow us to be a member of the same forum. Exactly how old does someone have to be before they can develop there own thoughts and ways of pattering fish? Please be careful before painting everyone with the same brush.

Fish, great idea for a thread. Made me realize that many times that i have without knowing predicted sweet spots based upon the types of trees. I have never stopped to break it down though and further my knowledge of trees I can't id and what type of soil they grow in. Great way to start a thread without being condescending to many of the members here.

cart7t reply :

Quote
Today's technological advancements will put you on a specific location on a piece of structure but it is still up to the angler to locate the sweet spots on the structure. To those of us who are adept at map reading can see a likely looking piece of structure, use the maps grid with/without a Coordinate Scale and figure GPS coordinates. Once on that specific piece of structure we can decipher possible sweet spots by looking at tree/brush or vegetations types.
Busy, if you do not fit that category why the resentment?

Back to my Jimmy Houston quote about apples and peach trees.

Perhaps the "experts" here can provide a teaching lesson on how to identify standing timber when there is no bark or leaves on it.

I doubt a trained arborist can accurately do that.

fishfordollars reply :

Here's what I look for. Remember I am talking about a timbered area offshore.

The easiest to see are the larger hardwoods, this will put you near the channel. What I really like to find though are the ones that lean(Or grow to one side) and the ones that have the smaller branches that fork out in different directions above the waterline. The leaning oaks will clue you in on a creek bend or fork. Think about it when you walked a creek bottom hunting. The straighter oaks would grow in the straight streches of a creek, but when it made a bend the oak would tend to lean(Or grow) toward the channel. It may be due to a washout feature up under the root system, but not sure about it. As you work your way down through an area it's easy to find the drains. Look for any hardwood that is located off to the side of an area. If they are mixed in with the smaller straight standing timber, or don't seem to follow the path of the others it is a good chance you have a drain running in that direction. These hardwoods will keep their limbs on them longer than others and it is a great place that fish will suspend when you are hit with a bluebird day.

You can catch them here with a spinnerbait worked through the treetop, jig, worm, or one of my favorites, a hopkins, hammered jigging spoon.

I know the first response I get will be that heck, hardwoods grow up on the ridges too. How is that helping me. Just remember that when the lake flooded, the timber up on the shallower areas was either cleared or it rotted quickly and was gone due to water levels rising and falling. The timber in the 20-50 ft. of water was always under the water line so it survived the water line rot.

Hope this helps.

Jack

cart7t reply :

The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.

How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

senile1 reply :

Quote
The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.
How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

. . . . . or when all that is left exposed above the water is a stub with no bark, no leaves, and no branches?

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.
How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

Softwood(Pines) will be straight. They will resemble a fence post and will taper toward the top. They generally will break straight across at the water line. Relatively smooth sides

Hardwood are never straight. They will have forks and broken stubs and grow at different angles. They generally will have numerous small branches going out in different directions. They tend to be much larger also. There are many deep gouges or indent ions in the sides also. Look at Raul's first picture on page two and imagine some of the taller trees in 15-20 ft. of water and it may help.

Remember this. When the contractor clears a lake the last thing they want to do is stick a piece of equipment. They will clear the high spots and leave the low areas alone many times. So if you only have hardwood in your area and you are in an open area that may have a few sparse tops out of the water, you can be sure they are on a creek or drain of some kind.

Equipment operators will push the cleared timber off into the nearest depression or creek to do away with it also. This is the way they built Sam Rayburn. I can remember watching them push the cleared timber off into the Angelina river. Just wish I had been smart enough to take pictures.

Busy reply :

From my experience cutting, splitting, and burning wood for a wood stove, you should not have too much difficulty telling hardwoods from softwoods. Hardwoods should tend to keep a darker color also. Chances are if the tree is white or gray looking, it's a softwood. These are all excellent points. Also, now that I think of it most of the big hedge trees I've cut the past few years tend also to bend or fork over creek beds they are/were on.

We follow treelines on lakes when we go for catfish because they help you find the channels. The bigger the tree, the closer to the channel it probably was. Also remember though that these are rules of thumb. In many lakes where the channels are huge and the channel drop-off can be 20-30 feet deep a lot of these trees you can use as indicators have actually wound up laying at the bottom of the channel. Especially in old lakes. I think fishfordollars mentions of drains would help more in this case, but I'm not quite sure what he means by a drain.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
From my experience cutting, splitting, and burning wood for a wood stove, you should not have too much difficulty telling hardwoods from softwoods. Hardwoods should tend to keep a darker color also. Chances are if the tree is white or gray looking, it's a softwood. These are all excellent points. Also, now that I think of it most of the big hedge trees I've cut the past few years tend also to bend or fork over creek beds they are/were on.
We follow treelines on lakes when we go for catfish because they help you find the channels. The bigger the tree, the closer to the channel it probably was. Also remember though that these are rules of thumb. In many lakes where the channels are huge and the channel drop-off can be 20-30 feet deep a lot of these trees you can use as indicators have actually wound up laying at the bottom of the channel. Especially in old lakes. I think fishfordollars mentions of drains would help more in this case, but I'm not quite sure what he means by a drain.

Any depression running off a creek channel. May run off the creek 30-40 yds. and play out.

A change in depth on a flat that runs from the shallows out toward the channel or deeper water

The middle of a pocket sometimes referred to as a wet weather creek.

These can be made by man, runnoff, or wave action to list a few

Busy reply :

Ok, so if there are no standing trees to tell you where the channel is, you can find the drains and that will give you a rough idea of where the channel is.

Having more experience with cat-fish I imagine that I typically ignore drains. We go straight for deep water most of the time. What are the benefits of knowing where the drains are for bass fishing? I don't know a whole lot about bass, which is why I'm here.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
Ok, so if there are no standing trees to tell you where the channel is, you can find the drains and that will give you a rough idea of where the channel is.
Having more experience with cat-fish I imagine that I typically ignore drains. We go straight for deep water most of the time. What are the benefits of knowing where the drains are for bass fishing? I don't know a whole lot about bass, which is why I'm here.

Highways the fish use to move on and off the creeks(Up shallower) for feeding.

Raul reply :

Quote
The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.
How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

Learn to be familiar with the trees that inhabit you place. I talked about the natives in my neck of the woods, willows and mesquite, but many times there are also non native species, it 's common in my neck of the woods for people who used to own the land before it was damed to plant other species, one of the most common one is a pine we generically call "casuarina" ( australian pine ), it 's not like the pines you are used to see ( one trunk and branches extending from it in radial from, these kind of pine has one main trunk with several branches growing straight up:

Just imagine it without foliage, it 's very peculiar. Now use your know knowledge of the habits of the people and the uses they give to the plant, in the case of casuarinas in my neck of the woods the tree is mainly used for:

1.- Providing shade

2.- Wind curtain for farmland

You see those branches ( or the tips ) and it looks like a single tree then most likely it 's a tree planted for shade by the previous owners of the land. You see several and most likely in a row then you got yourself a wind curtain, so most probably the area on one side and the other used to be farmland, most probably there 's nothing there to fish for ( flat, no rocks, no brush, no more trees, muddy bottom ). Here 's a pic of mi compadre, take a look at the right side of the pic, in between the houses behind my compadre 's head and an electric post you can see some branches, that 's how a casuarina tree looks like when devoid of foliage.

cart7t reply :

A typical woodland area in my area has between 30-40 different species of trees, either hardwood or softwood. Frankly I'll rely on a good map, a graph and good old common sense.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
A typical woodland area in my area has between 30-40 different species of trees, either hardwood or softwood. Frankly I'll rely on a good map, a graph and good old common sense.

That will work. Check the depths and contours around the largest trees out there. I bet you will find the drop. Unless it is just a bowl type bottom those trees were left for a reason, and if not for habitat it will probably be due to access.

Cart7t, not everyone has the luxury or knowhow to use the things you mentioned. At one time I didn't, and that's why i brought it up to begin with.

11220

Reading the timber 2024

related General Bass Fishing Forum topic

previous topic

next topic

most viewed General Bass Fishing Forum topic