How To Start A Niche Product Company In Fishing. 2024
BASSclary reply :
Well to start, I came up with an idea for the fishing industry, (not just bass) and after some testing basic prototypes we're pretty sure the concept is ready, and want to get some full scale testing.
The question is, we dont know how, or where to get the resources, etc. We dont think we'll need investors, as its a small niche market, and I dont think people outside of fishing would want to invest anyhow.
And my question is, once we get a working full prototype, how do we go into mass production? (Well, not massive, but the idea of producing a lot) Should we invest in our own machines? Or should we outsource to a company, and how would that work?
Thanks
quanjig reply :
I would think step one would be to file a patent on your product.
matstone7 reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 8:55 AM, BASSclary said:And my question is, once we get a working full prototype, how do we go into mass production? (Well, not massive, but the idea of producing a lot) Should we invest in our own machines? Or should we outsource to a company, and how would that work?
Thanks
Much depends on the product itself... the numbers needed for an initial inventory for your launch, amounts expected for future sales, cost of machinery, the whole employer thing etc. In my case, it was far more cost effective to spend the days on the phone and surfing the web to find manufacturers than it was to buy a machine and manufacture myself.
Like I said, much would depend on the product. If you were to make special screen printed shirts or cool decals and do that then yes, it may be more cost effective to do yourself. Provided you have the time.
Everything has a value towards your bottom line including your own time.
BASSclary reply :
Well, its a carbon fiber product, so I dont know if you can cut that with everyday tool, we did theory testing with aluminium that we could cut with a metal saw blade, for proof of concept. I dont know if you can cut carbon fiber with a fine toothed blade. Its still very prototype-ish stage, but want to make some final prototypes with the final product in mind.
I still have some research to do, but was wondering about some basic tips to do so.
And for how niche this is, unless it becomes a very popular stable, this could probably all done by hand. If it becomes a high demand product, I could see going to manufacturers.
BigMoneyGrip reply :
You can cut CF with coated tooling, bit it is abrasive and will wear it over time. We're looking into getting a laser to cut with.
I would go talk to a local machine shop and see what they say. You can buy CNC stuff relatively cheap, but not all CNC is good for production. If you do get you own equipment, you will need to thing about the CAD/CAM software to support the machines. This is another learning curve if you've never fooled with it.
A couple of years ago, I made a specialized tool for guns and ended up making and selling about 70 of them. It was a pain in the butt to do all of the work (machining, anodizing, TIG welding and assembly) but it was nice getting an email from paypal that had "You have money" in the subject line. If I did it again, I would job all of it out. The profit margin would be about 1/3 of what I was making, but the headache would be in somebody elses skull.
Good luck!
QUAKEnSHAKE reply :
A Dremel will cut it if you just want to make prototype and file it and sand it. A bandsaw a hacksaw. Tape the point where you might drill a hole. Wear mask safety glasses
BASSclary reply :
Well, I just did some research and came back, and its good to know I can cut it with a good dremel bit.
And QUAKE, thanks for the idea of tape over any drilled holes, im sure that reduces the sharding, and a cleaner cut.
I just order a couple 4x4 sheets of 3 mm CF, so I can cut the shape out and make sure that it works.
What i'm now concerned about is finding the hardware I need. I need to find rivets (Like you find on regular handles, with the screw in the end) to finish my product. Does anyone know where I can get these? I did a quick google search but nothing turned up.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 10:11 AM, BigMoneyGrip said:You can cut CF with coated tooling, bit it is abrasive and will wear it over time. We're looking into getting a laser to cut with.
I would go talk to a local machine shop and see what they say. You can buy CNC stuff relatively cheap, but not all CNC is good for production. If you do get you own equipment, you will need to thing about the CAD/CAM software to support the machines. This is another learning curve if you've never fooled with it.
A couple of years ago, I made a specialized tool for guns and ended up making and selling about 70 of them. It was a pain in the butt to do all of the work (machining, anodizing, TIG welding and assembly) but it was nice getting an email from paypal that had "You have money" in the subject line. If I did it again, I would job all of it out. The profit margin would be about 1/3 of what I was making, but the headache would be in somebody elses skull.
Good luck!
Thanks, i'm very familiar with AutoCAD (had a tech drawing class in HS) so I can make some prototypes in there, and maybe see if I can get them CNC'd out for me. That would be a MUCH better option than doing it by hand, but only if the price is right.
Glenn reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 9:35 AM, quanjig said:I would think step one would be to file a patent on your product.
Ding! Ding! Winner!
No matter what you do, do this FIRST! Seriously. Note the recent Alabama rig knock-offs (trust me, there were dozens at ICAST last month), or the endless Senko knockoffs. The fishing industry is not bashful at all, and will steal your idea in a heartbeat.
Get a patent. It's the single most important thing you do.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 11:10 AM, Glenn said:Ding! Ding! Winner!
No matter what you do, do this FIRST! Seriously. Note the recent Alabama rig knock-offs (trust me, there were dozens at ICAST last month), or the endless Senko knockoffs. The fishing industry is not bashful at all, and will steal your idea in a heartbeat.
Get a patent. It's the single most important thing you do.
I would definitely patent it, I just want to make sure everything works out first, and have some solid prototypes to work with before hand.
Also, does anyone know how much a patent would cost? Its a fairly simple design, and I mean SIMPLE.
Also, how does a patent protect me from people copying outside of the US, or making outside the US and selling in the US?
slonezp reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 10:32 AM, BASSclary said:Well, I just did some research and came back, and its good to know I can cut it with a good dremel bit.
And QUAKE, thanks for the idea of tape over any drilled holes, im sure that reduces the sharding, and a cleaner cut.
I just order a couple 4x4 sheets of 3 mm CF, so I can cut the shape out and make sure that it works.
What i'm now concerned about is finding the hardware I need. I need to find rivets (Like you find on regular handles, with the screw in the end) to finish my product. Does anyone know where I can get these? I did a quick google search but nothing turned up.
Do you mean a threaded insert?
http://www.rivetsinstock.com/rivet-nuts-threaded-inserts.html
Any big box hardware store should carry them
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 11:25 AM, slonezp said:Do you mean a threaded insert?
http://www.rivetsins...ed-inserts.html
Any big box hardware store should carry them
Yep, thats what i'm talking about. I need them to be the standard size of reels though. I'll check out Home Depot and Lowes this weekend to see if they have anything.
quanjig reply :
I think I remember something like a poor mans patent, not sure if it's 100% legit but if you have the basic plans for your patent, seal it in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. This way you have a sealed package with postal stamp with a date. Not sure if that's all you need but I recall reading that somewhere. I'm sure someone here knows about patenting stuff, a lot of big brains ya nawhaimean!
quanjig reply :
Not sure how much work you have done with threaded inserts, but if you plan on using them with CF, not sure you are going to get the results you are looking for. You need a good tool to install/seat them properly and if you are trying to seat them in the CF, it's probably going to crack.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 11:41 AM, quanjig said:Not sure how much work you have done with threaded inserts, but if you plan on using them with CF, not sure you are going to get the results you are looking for. You need a good tool to install/seat them properly and if you are trying to seat them in the CF, it's probably going to crack.
Could I simply just screw them on, with a very small screw?
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 11:34 AM, quanjig said:I think I remember something like a poor mans patent, not sure if it's 100% legit but if you have the basic plans for your patent, seal it in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. This way you have a sealed package with postal stamp with a date. Not sure if that's all you need but I recall reading that somewhere. I'm sure someone here knows about patenting stuff, a lot of big brains ya nawhaimean!
Did some googling on that, I see what it does, even though courts apparently hate those.
BigMoneyGrip reply :
I'd be glad to cut you a few prototypes, if you'd like, no charge. I have a full CNC shop at the University and work is kinda slow right now. As far as software, I have AutoCAD, FeatureCAM, Solidworks, Espriit, ProE.... and more.
Shoot me an email or PM me for a phone # and we'll talk.
quanjig reply :
I'm not sure what you are going to be doing with said CF material, unless you can somehow layer the material actually around the fastener, not sure the durability of the termination.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 8:55 AM, BASSclary said:Well to start, I came up with an idea for the fishing industry, (not just bass) and after some testing basic prototypes we're pretty sure the concept is ready, and want to get some full scale testing.
The question is, we dont know how, or where to get the resources, etc. We dont think we'll need investors, as its a small niche market, and I dont think people outside of fishing would want to invest anyhow.
And my question is, once we get a working full prototype, how do we go into mass production? (Well, not massive, but the idea of producing a lot) Should we invest in our own machines? Or should we outsource to a company, and how would that work?
Thanks
Let's start with the "I & We" portion of your post. If you are the only person involved you shouldn't have a problem, but if you are involved with another individual(s) this venture should be formed as some type of partnership or perhaps an LLC. You need some way to keep track of how much cash, time, or anything else (in many partnerships you can put a value on ideas) that you want to place a value on for potential reimbursement.
With regards to patent protection of your invention, there is only one way to go about it. Initially the cost is rather low if you do this yourself and then hire an attorney if the product shows promise. Visit the government's patent office and file the initial patent application(s). There are two types of patents that you could recieve. There is a utility patent and a design(?) patent that you can seek. This filing provides you with what is called "patent pending" protection until a complete patent search is done. The last I knew, this gives you about a full year to move onto the next phase of the patent process. At this point, it is the date showing on your application that protects your idea from someone else copying it, and should be filed prior to outsourcing any help in bringing your product to market. This also gives you the time needed to find a reputable patent attorney.
Food for thought:
There are times when an idea is worth following through on but the money needed to take it to market is more than the inventor can handle. If you feel strongly enough about your invention but can't find the funds, you may want to try selling the idea to a manufacturer that has the resources to complete the project. You won't get as much money as you may have carrying it all the way to market, but your risk and investment will be much less. This could give you the capital needed for your next idea. Because there's always one more invention that needs to be looked at.
Good Luck!
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 8:55 PM, BigMoneyGrip said:I'd be glad to cut you a few prototypes, if you'd like, no charge. I have a full CNC shop at the University and work is kinda slow right now. As far as software, I have AutoCAD, FeatureCAM, Solidworks, Espriit, ProE.... and more.
Shoot me an email or PM me for a phone # and we'll talk.
Big, i'd love to take you up on that offer. I just started making some basic drawings on AutoCAD (Its been a few years since I learned to use it in Tech Drawing, so it might take me a while) and i'm still trying to figure out how to make it so I can do a 3d model for you. (right now its pure 2d, just the shape).
I'll send you a PM tonight after work.
On 8/3/2012 at 9:26 PM, Lund Explorer said:Let's start with the "I & We" portion of your post. If you are the only person involved you shouldn't have a problem, but if you are involved with another individual(s) this venture should be formed as some type of partnership or perhaps an LLC. You need some way to keep track of how much cash, time, or anything else (in many partnerships you can put a value on ideas) that you want to place a value on for potential reimbursement.
With regards to patent protection of your invention, there is only one way to go about it. Initially the cost is rather low if you do this yourself and then hire an attorney if the product shows promise. Visit the government's patent office and file the initial patent application(s). There are two types of patents that you could recieve. There is a utility patent and a design(?) patent that you can seek. This filing provides you with what is called "patent pending" protection until a complete patent search is done. The last I knew, this gives you about a full year to move onto the next phase of the patent process. At this point, it is the date showing on your application that protects your idea from someone else copying it, and should be filed prior to outsourcing any help in bringing your product to market. This also gives you the time needed to find a reputable patent attorney.
Food for thought:
There are times when an idea is worth following through on but the money needed to take it to market is more than the inventor can handle. If you feel strongly enough about your invention but can't find the funds, you may want to try selling the idea to a manufacturer that has the resources to complete the project. You won't get as much money as you may have carrying it all the way to market, but your risk and investment will be much less. This could give you the capital needed for your next idea. Because there's always one more invention that needs to be looked at.
Good Luck!
Lund, by "I & We", I mean mostly me, but my dad is helping me out with some stuff. Just me and him.
And i've thought about the idea of selling it to a company, but I don't really know how to go about doing that, and I don't want it to be something silly or jokingly to them. But of course, to sell it to them, you need to show them it works, which is part of the reason I need prototypes.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 8:58 PM, quanjig said:I'm not sure what you are going to be doing with said CF material, unless you can somehow layer the material actually around the fastener, not sure the durability of the termination.
There's no layering involved, I just bought two sheets for mistakes, and/or tweaks.
Jig Meister reply :
For money, either find a private investor, or pitch it to a bank.
before you do that however, make sure you have a well thought out presentation, have crunched all the numbers, and can answer all the questions.
pretend the pitch is like an interview, be ready for the tough questions.
remember you have to sell this, so start buffing up on your sales know-how, this could save your whole idea.
might now be what you were looking for, but a piece of the puzzle anyway.
good luck, nothing like working for yourself!
Lund Explorer reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 9:37 PM, BASSclary said:Lund, by "I & We", I mean mostly me, but my dad is helping me out with some stuff. Just me and him.
And i've thought about the idea of selling it to a company, but I don't really know how to go about doing that, and I don't want it to be something silly or jokingly to them. But of course, to sell it to them, you need to show them it works, which is part of the reason I need prototypes.
I didn't mean that you shouldn't continue with the research into building a prototype. Until you have a product that is complete, and works, you can't move to the next step. It's after that point that I was talking about.
In the instances I've been privy to, the money problem really starts once you consider tooling, manufacturing, and marketing the product. Each part of the product that will require an outside source to produce can require you to commit to a certain number of units per/production run. That can get expensive. Assembly and packaging the product is another cost. Unless you decide to sell the product exclusively, you'll want to apply for a bar code (plu?) for wholesalers/retailers to use. If you do intend to sell the product to other businesses, then you'll need to find sales reps to market the product which adds another costs level.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 9:54 PM, Lund Explorer said:I didn't mean that you shouldn't continue with the research into building a prototype. Until you have a product that is complete, and works, you can't move to the next step. It's after that point that I was talking about.
In the instances I've been privy to, the money problem really starts once you consider tooling, manufacturing, and marketing the product. Each part of the product that will require an outside source to produce can require you to commit to a certain number of units per/production run. That can get expensive. Assembly and packaging the product is another cost. Unless you decide to sell the product exclusively, you'll want to apply for a bar code (plu?) for wholesalers/retailers to use. If you do intend to sell the product to other businesses, then you'll need to find sales reps to market the product which adds another costs level.
Thats good info lund, thank you! As of right now, initial tests with the basic shape and different tests have yielded good, but mixed results. with some spare aluminum, proof of concept was great, but with wood, it wasn't (well, its wood, you dont build this type of thing from wood). Plastic didn't prove anything, except that standard, and my design both broke. I'm hoping CF proves the same result the way that aluminum did.
(='_'=) reply :
hopefully you are not trying to do this:
http://www.hawgtech.com/
BASSclary reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 10:20 PM, (= said:hopefully you are not trying to do this:
http://www.hawgtech.com/
A standard handle made of CF? Those have been around for forever, and are not new, however they look good, and are affordable now.
I'm talking about some new-new here.
Sam reply :
Patents
Will not stop the Asian's from copying and sellng your product. You can't fight them and lawyers will steal your money trying to stop them. You can get a patent but remember if another concern changes one thing on the product you will be out of luck.
Manufacturing
There are machine shops that will make any number of your products for you. Look them up on the Internet or Yellow Pages in your geographical area.
Insurance
You need products liability which is a part of a general liability insurance contract for at least $1,000,000 limits. You will probably have to go into the surplus and excess lines marketplace and pay through the nose. Check with a local independent insurance agent.
Marketing the Product
You will have to go from retailer to retailer and ask them to sell the product. Shelf space may be a problem along with display areas. May I suggest trying to get a sales base on the Internet? If it is fishing related you may have to invest time and money and attend next year's ICAST or a local fishing expo this winter. Advertise in magazines that will target your consumers. A good web page linked to Pay Pal can work wonders. And don't forget ebay and Craig's list.
If the product sells via the Internet, ICAST, fishing expos plus magazine advertising you are on your way. You will need a pro bass fisherman to hawk the product. You will have to negotiate with other machine shops to try to get a better deal. Work out mailing costs with UPS or Fed-X.
Go for it! If it works then you will be making a profit. If it fails at least you tried.
Good luck and let us know what you do.
Captain Obvious reply :
Just speaking about the money part. If you get a working model going you can always try kickstarter.com to raise some cash.
I know I would give a little money to see if it worked.
Good Luck
Capt.O
Sam reply :
On 8/3/2012 at 8:55 PM, BigMoneyGrip said:I'd be glad to cut you a few prototypes, if you'd like, no charge. I have a full CNC shop at the University and work is kinda slow right now. As far as software, I have AutoCAD, FeatureCAM, Solidworks, Espriit, ProE.... and more.
Shoot me an email or PM me for a phone # and we'll talk.
That's Ole Miss!
Of course things are slow at Ole Miss. Football season does not start for another three weeks!!!!
Geaux for his help. Be sure to have the product produced in purple and gold, too.
BigMoneyGrip reply :
I hear ya Sam. You can't buy those two colors in Oxford! Maybe you could provide those?
And being typical Ole Miss, I figure football season will be even slower when it starts.
South FLA reply :
Interesting that you should ask about this, Mike and I (Hawg Tech, LLC) just went through the same process you are going through. If you send me a PM I will give you my number and see if I can walk you through the process.
BASSclary reply :
Interesting and shocking update for all who care to know,
I got my shipments of CF in today, and cut out the base shapes for proof of concept out very carefully a dremel, and sanded to shape. I was really hoping the results would be good, but it appears that CF is just to brittle of a material to use. I was fascinated that it worked with Aluminum. My theory is that because it was Aluminum, it had a small amount of give in the metal. The CF just seemed to snap.
So you may be wondering, why not just use Aluminum if it works? Well, aluminum is heavier. You see, what I had invented was a much stronger design than the standard today, so by it being a stronger design, you can lessen your material used, until its the strength of the current design. The new design should in theory have the same strength, but at a fraction of the weight. It would just be heavier and cumbersome with Aluminum.
However, I had an idea spark off of my idea yesterday when someone thought I was working on a CF handle. I have an idea i'll test out with some spare CF, and I really think this could be beneficial.
It's time to change the game on handles, i'm talking next level stuff.
I dont think I can take on the whole process though, so i'll probably look to partner up with my technology. HawgTech, expect a PM, or a call of some sorts.
cody161 reply :
It's expensive, but there's always titanium.
BASSclary reply :
On 8/7/2012 at 9:28 AM, cody161 said:It's expensive, but there's always titanium.
Yeah, coming from Lacrosse I know alot about what alloys have better strength to weight ratios, Titanium, or Scandium, would just be too costly for what it is.
FL_Sharpshooter reply :
There's always magnesium 
200racing reply :
get yourself a good non-disclosure agreement and have anyone dealing with your product sign it.
what i have gathered researching a few ideas i had interest in patenting,including talking to a man who went through the whole process.
when all is said and done a patent cost about $20,000.
a patent is only a strong as the money behind it.
if a corporation wants your product they will do what they want and when you try to stop them they will drag you through court till you have nothing left to spend.
there are many people out to take advantage of would be patent filers.
piscicidal reply :
BassClary,
I wish I had seen your post sooner. A couple points....
- Cutting carbon fiber is a very difficult and dangerous thing to do without the proper setup! I would not be cutting it in the garage with a dremel. Please use proper equipment and ventilation...
- Patents. I have eleven patents. They certainly have their place in product development, but unless you have the deep pockets to file and defend an international patent, it may not be in your best financial interest to do so. If you think you might eventually want to file a patent on your idea, one thing you can do is file a preliminary disclosure. This is much cheaper than an actual filing and it sets the original date of the IP. It also allows you patent pending status, which may be advantageous.
- Do a full cost analysis on your idea and add about 30% to that. This will give you some idea of your breakeven point, and the financial feasibility.
- Of course, another way to bring a carbon fiber product to market would be to partner up with someone who has a little experience with this sort of thing (hint, hint). if you think your idea has merit, make sure to get a non-disclosure agreement signed before discussing your idea with them....yes, that includes myself. I would have no problem signing a non-disclosure before talking to you.
Fishwhittler reply :
On 8/7/2012 at 9:02 AM, BASSclary said:Interesting and shocking update for all who care to know,
I got my shipments of CF in today, and cut out the base shapes for proof of concept out very carefully a dremel, and sanded to shape. I was really hoping the results would be good, but it appears that CF is just to brittle of a material to use. I was fascinated that it worked with Aluminum. My theory is that because it was Aluminum, it had a small amount of give in the metal. The CF just seemed to snap.
So you may be wondering, why not just use Aluminum if it works? Well, aluminum is heavier. You see, what I had invented was a much stronger design than the standard today, so by it being a stronger design, you can lessen your material used, until its the strength of the current design. The new design should in theory have the same strength, but at a fraction of the weight. It would just be heavier and cumbersome with Aluminum.
However, I had an idea spark off of my idea yesterday when someone thought I was working on a CF handle. I have an idea i'll test out with some spare CF, and I really think this could be beneficial.
It's time to change the game on handles, i'm talking next level stuff.
I dont think I can take on the whole process though, so i'll probably look to partner up with my technology. HawgTech, expect a PM, or a call of some sorts.
BASSclary, have you considered using garolite? I don't know what you're trying to build, but garolite (aka Micarta or circuit-board) is very strong and rigid and the only way to break the stuff is to take a hacksaw to it. I don't know how it compares to aluminum in weight, but it might be something to look into.
DILLY07 reply :
For the rivets your talking about, your probably going to need a rivet gun that has a suction on it and probably need a compressed air tank with the rivet gun.
related General Bass Fishing Forum topic
most viewed General Bass Fishing Forum topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.