Fake Fishing Gear Reviews On Amazon - My Story 2024
schplurg reply :
I am here to give people a first-hand account of how the fake reviews work and how prevalent they are on Amazon.
This is maybe more for new anglers, as experienced anglers either don't shop at Amazon, or they know what they want when they do.
If you are going to Amazon looking for great deals and you're not a very experienced angler, this is for you.
If you go to Amazon and see brands like PLUSINNO, or SOUGILYANG, or SuperFunFishingForYou, and you wonder if their gear is any good, this is for you. But even more reputable sellers pull these same shenanigans.
My Experience
I was contacted by an Amazon seller through my tiny Youtube channel. I'm nobody. They asked if I wanted to try some free fishing gear in exchange for reviews. I said sure, but I will be honest in my reviews. They asked me to provide a lot of photos (this is key in spotting these fake reviews).
I received a rod stand that hold 6 rods and sits on the floor. It was pretty nice and I gave it a good review. It deserved it.
By the way, they PayPal you the money up front, then you make the purchase, that way you actually paid for the product and are able to review it.
Then they sent another product, and then another company contacted me as well. Wow, I'm important!
Finally, I received what I considered a less than perfect product and I gave my honest review. Still 4 stars, but that wan't good enough for the seller! A few days later I get an email asking why I gave a "bad" review and can they do anything to make me change it. "We have a nice fly rod for you to try next" they said. This is the long story short version.
I told them to bug off. They aren't the manufacturer so there's nothing they can do to fix it anyways. I've been trying to complain to Amazon ever since but they make it very difficult for some reason. Amazon is currently in litigation due to all of the fake reviews. It is a huge problem for them so they should be eager to learn about this.
How To Spot And Avoid The Fakes
The companies want a whole bunch of reviews as soon as they release a new product. They expect to get say 50 5-star reviews by recruiting people like me. And they want us to provide photos in our reviews. This is key.
If you see a $15 product and reviewers have bothered to post half a dozen photos and videos of the product, there is a good chance that those reviews are fake. Who the heck is going to post 6 photos of a fishing hook, or a roll of fishing line? Compensated reviewers, that's who.
And they did not ask me to say "This product was provided free in exchange for a review". You see that sometimes on Amazon, but it is absolutely not required.
To avoid these fakes, try sorting the reviews by "Most Recent" rather than "Most Popular" or whatever it is. Chances are good that most of the paid reviews are the earliest ones, but not always! If a product needs a boost they will ask for reviews for existing or older products as well, but not much. It's mainly the earliest reviews that are fake.
So, reviews with a lot of photos, or people who use the company name a lot in the review (like an ad would do), are most likely fake. Especially if you see a lot of them, and all 5 stars. "PLUSINNO continues to make great products! Thank you, PLUSINNO, for bla bla de bla bla..." Ya right.
If a reviewer seems overly excited about a fishing pole stand, or a reel stringer, or a mismatched box of terminal tackle, it's probably BS. Read the 3 star reviews for the real story.
It May Go Deeper Than Just Amazon
Recently I did a web search for "telescopic fishing pole". I found dozens of websites with "fishy" sounding names. I can't think of any but stuff that seemed translated from Korean or Chinese, like "BestFishReviews.com", or "BigGoodFunFish.com". Where are all the real fishing sites?
So I start reading these and they are ALL touting the same cheap garbage that the fake reviews are trying to sell. Really? The best collapsible fishing pole is made by PLUSINNO and Soungyilang(sp?) on every single review site? No way. And all of these sites read like translated Chinese (though they are getting better). It's like a big conspiracy from the reviews to the review sites.
They must buy up a bunch of URLs and SEO they heck out of them so they show up in a Google search. What a scam. They sell crap and they own the review sites too LOL.
So you can't trust these so-called review sites either. They are disguised as fishing sites but they have no info other than these reviews.
And one site said they base their Top Ten off of Amazon reviews! Great, the fake reviews!
I hope this helps some people. It really makes me mad that people do this - the companies as well as the dishonest reviewers - so I wanted to share my story. I never left a phony review, in fact that's why I'm probably blacklisted now 
"No more free fish big fun times for you!"
Finessegenics reply :
Thank you for making this post. For some it may be obvious that they are fake reviews and it is cheap Chinese crap, but thus needed to be said
MN Fisher reply :
Good 'review', @schplurg. I may buy from Amazon, but I don't trust their review process...never have. TackleTour, *** , and oldies but goodies like Field and Stream and Outdoor Life are where I go for reviews on gear.
DanielG reply :
There are sites that help you evaluate reviews on Amazon. I use this one ReviewMeta You copy/past in the URL of the product you are looking at on Amazon and if it hasn't analyzed it yet, it will do it while you wait. It give a pass/fail rating and gives lots of data as to reasons why. Not perfect but better than nothing.
It looks at reviews with same wording, if someone reviews a lot of stuff the same way, Common cliches used, and many other parameters.
jimmyjoe reply :
Been going on for quite some time. http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rotr.html Seems there is another side to this, too. One that's even seamier. http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/zmb.html As always, BUYER BEWARE! jj
schplurg reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 7:45 AM, DanielG said:There are sites that help you evaluate reviews on Amazon. I use this one ReviewMeta You copy/past in the URL of the product you are looking at on Amazon and if it hasn't analyzed it yet, it will do it while you wait. It give a pass/fail rating and gives lots of data as to reasons why. Not perfect but better than nothing.
It looks at reviews with same wording, if someone reviews a lot of stuff the same way, Common cliches used, and many other parameters.
That's cool I'll have to check that out.
I leave a lot of Amazon reviews on my own, but I only did 4 for these companies. It didn't take long for them to show their true nature.
I also went back last week and lowered my review for one I had previously rated at 5 stars. Got an email from them too. This thing fell apart on me on 2nd use. First use was no problem, hence the good initial score.
It makes me wonder about all the other reviewers who continue to do this. Some of this stuff is okay in quality and free stuff is probably hard for a lot of people to walk away from. I see people fawning over the same item that I thought sucked and fell apart on me. They're obviously lying.
One reason I fish is because the older I get the more tired of people I get. Oh I still love meeting people...I guess what I mean is a person can be cool, but people suck 
Sam reply :
Great write up. Thanks for sharing.
I only get my reviews from Tackle Warehouse and other reputable retailers.
NYWayfarer reply :
In regards to cheap fishing gear sold on Amazon no review is needed to tell me to avoid it. You know what you are getting if you buy a Plussino rod or reel for $20
I have no problem reading reviews with a third eye. I look for reviews that address my concerns with the item I am looking to purchase. I then make up my own mind if a purchase is worth it. That is becoming a lost art.
Manly Studson reply :
This post is helpful. Sometimes I see gear from different no-name brands that look exactly the same, but the reviews are very good and similar. I just wish Daiwa or Shimano would solicit my opinions in exchange for free gear. I’m confident that my reviews would be great even before I received the product!
schplurg reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 8:26 AM, jimmyjoe said:Been going on for quite some time. http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rotr.html Seems there is another side to this, too. One that's even seamier. http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/zmb.html As always, BUYER BEWARE! jj
Still reading these. A lot of good info.
It surprised me that they would put money in my PayPal account so I could make the purchase. I think that's a newer tactic. I called my sister when this all started because this smelled like a rip-off to me, and she said she reviewed a phone case for a seller once and it was the same process.
The emails always started with "Hey Mate!" then would continue in very broken and poorly translated sentences.
I want to say here that the company PLUSINNO (they spell it all caps) is not the one who bribed me to change my review, though I believe they were about to do so. I just didn't reply to their query on why I lowered my review.
The company that did bribe me was TopSport. They all sell the same stuff and who knows maybe they're all under one parent company, but wanted to clarify that. The rod stand Plusinno sent me was quite good and I use it.
By the way, I used to develop iPhone games and it's the same thing as far as reviews go, you can buy them, although I think Apple does a better job sorting them out. Apple is hardcore.
Edit to add: (why can't I bold anything suddenly?)
Speaking of iPhone games, I have been playing around with designing a bass fishing sim. This would be based on real bass behavior as much as possible, and I was thinking about starting a thread about it here.
Right now I have a large pond with a bass that can travel around. It seeks locations depending on time of day for now, very basic, but I'm working on water temp, depth, length of day, and other stuff. Hunger, fear, energy, aggressiveness...
What I'm trying to do is make a bass that will live a life cycle as a real bass would, getting bigger, smarter maybe, and then building a fishing sim around that. No BS in-app purchases - I'm too old-school for that.
Anyways I thought maybe I could get insights from the experts here and maybe it would be a fun thing to do. I may start a thread.
I don't know that many people here would want to play it, but I'd make it easy even for non-gamers (easy to play, not easy to catch!). And I have written a best selling iPhone game so I'm no slouch. I'm not even looking to get rich (uh, it's a fishing game).
Oh and the fish at this point will attack and bite a bait I made but it's pretty basic so far. Nothing even close to playable.
We'll see.
newriverfisherman1953 reply :
If someone starts off with “Hey mate” with me, that’s as far as they get. Sorry, but I’m gone. ????
schplurg reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 9:09 AM, NYWayfarer said:In regards to cheap fishing gear sold on Amazon no review is needed to tell me to avoid it. You know what you are getting if you buy a Plussino rod or reel for $20
I have no problem reading reviews with a third eye. I look for reviews that address my concerns with the item I am looking to purchase. I then make up my own mind if a purchase is worth it. That is becoming a lost art.
Thinking is a lost art.
Hewhospeaksmuchbull reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 8:35 AM, schplurg said:One reason I fish is because the older I get the more tired of people I get. Oh I still love meeting people...I guess what I mean is a person can be cool, but people suck
Ya, well I'm liking you more and more all the time.
I get ya.
galyonj reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 9:12 AM, schplurg said:Speaking of iPhone games, I have been playing around with designing a bass fishing sim.
Snipped for length.
That sounds amazing.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
When I am reading reviews for an item I always sort it by “lowest rating” first. I read the bad ratings and if there is a recurring theme (not just people having unrealistic expectations or having a bad day), I’ll go search in other places to see if people have had similar experiences.
Boomstick reply :
Thank you for this. I have recently noticed something similar with a guitar company. The owner has recently came under scrutiny for some of his less questionable use of his followers to bully anyone who doesn't do what he wants, and I recall seeing some of his expensive models with extremely major defects like fret edges that could literally cut your hands, which is not a problem on even a $200 Squier, let alone a much more expensive guitar. So after hearing others complain about this, I looked up reviews and I am pretty sure they were all fake, maybe even left by company employees -- even if they had to buy 3-5 of each model to get it to say verified user.
I no longer trust review sections on sites that are selling products. Instead I will look to select Youtube reviewers who I have came to trust. I recently watched an overall negative review of a kayak I plan on purchasing, but I thought the woman who gave it gave her honest opinion and also detailed what it did right, and as it turns out what she liked about it is what I am personally looking for. It would be hard to fabricate things like that just to give something a positive or bad review.
On 1/13/2020 at 9:12 AM, schplurg said:Speaking of iPhone games, I have been playing around with designing a bass fishing sim. This would be based on real bass behavior as much as possible, and I was thinking about starting a thread about it here.
I might have to buy a cell phone if it's a good enough game to feed my fishing itch during the colder months. I have only found one fishing game that's worth a d**n to be honest.
schplurg reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 10:25 AM, Boomstick said:- snipped for brevity -
I might have to buy a cell phone if it's a good enough game to feed my fishing itch during the colder months. I have only found one fishing game that's worth a d**n to be honest.
I figure some people might be inclined to try during the winter months. I've played "BPS The Strike" and it's "okay". There are a lot of others but I've never tried most. I just doubt/know they aren't what I want.
My goals with such a game would be (so far):
In a nutshell: I want people to be able to apply their fishing knowledge and catch bass in a beautiful and realistic video game.
- realistic fish behavior. Realistic fishing. No underwater camera help, though I'd like people to be able to watch the fish maybe. Sometimes I copy/paste twenty of my fish into the scene and watch them swim around. Kinda cool!
- beautiful settings that make you want to turn on the game even if you never play. I want you to feel like you are there. It's all about atmosphere. The game may not run on mobile because I want it to look jaw-dropping. Not sure.
- actual fish in the water swimming around doing fish stuff. If it's spawning time you may see them on beds, or the males preparing the bed (ignoring your baits!). If the conditions are right you may see a few under a dock. You'll see a swirl near the weeds maybe.
- They will bite when a bait is close enough, or vibrating enough, and if they are hungry or irritated enough, etc.
- You can fish the bank or from a rowboat, bass boat, yak or tube ("maybe" on some of these if I get serious enough). Full access to the water.
- No snags? Not sure. Maybe very difficult to snag? But there will be cover and structure to locate and fish around. Trees, stumps, pads,
- realistic weather, time, sun position throughout the year. Moon too.
What I have now...
- a large pond with a little bit of everything. Shallows, coves, 30 feet deep in spots, docks, areas that would serve to spawn. You can walk around it and on the water for now
- a fish that can swim, avoid obstacles, reach a destination and hold near that position, not float away out of the game into the sky, free swim. It also reads the sun angle. I have it programmed now to go to shallow water morning and evenings just as a test, then find cover from a couple of available docks during the day, or free swim.
- a sun that acts like a sun. It can do shorter (winter) days, and at different angles. Objects create shadows.
- I have a rudimentary way of figuring out (not realistically really) what temp the water should be at different depths using my very VERY basic "knowledge" of how temps change through the thermocline and the other layers. The fish can analyze the temp but it does not act on it yet.
I'm trying to determine how to make the water temps react (sloooowly) to air temps. I kinda know how but I haven't tried it yet.
This probably sounds a lot better than it really is, and most of it is very basic.
Now, I've only been learning about bass fishing for less than two years so I can only get so far with this on my own (cough Tom cough Help cough ). I've learned a lot, but pfft!!! So that's why I've thought about mentioning it here.
This post is too long and off topic, so I'll think about starting a new one. May as well I guess. If it dies it dies. I don't want to start something I won't finish, but I've been playing with this for a month or so, so it looks like I'm kinda serious about it.
schplurg reply :
You may be able to read some of the values/variables I have for the fish on the right of the image. The blocks at the bottom near the dock are for path-finding testing. Just thought I'd post a pic to show I'm actually doing this
Also nothing you see would ever be good enough to be seen in a finished game.
Crestliner2008 reply :
Thank you for this post. I frequently purchase items from Amazon, but when searching, I always start from the worst reviews and up from there.
Swbass15 reply :
Don’t be to quick to knock all the off brand cheap gear. There are pro anglers using on tour, in tournaments some of the $20 dollar reels available on Amazon. They know they are not the same as shimano or abu or any other name brand. But they tout them as disposable reels. Cheap efficient reels to use and then when they crap out toss them and use a new one.
his term for them disposable reels.
Glenn reply :
Which pros are you referencing?
Bass Junke reply :
Reading buyer reviews and sorting out the "reviews with ulterior motives", from the honest reviews can be tricky. Like Dirtyeggroll said, all you can do is look for trends. If there are 50 reviews and 20 of them report the same type of issue. I will not buy that product. Good post. Good info. Thanks.
Hawkeye21 reply :
I noticed while searching for flipping rods that I found multiple sites showing the same exact list of their top rated rods. I found that to be a little suspicious so I made sure I checked as many reviews as possible. Most of the rods look to be good and are good brands but it's strange that multiple site would have the same exact models picked.
On 1/13/2020 at 11:10 PM, Glenn said:Which pros are you referencing?
I can't remember the angler's names but I know I've seen two different guys saying how all they use are cheap reels they order from China. The one guy was on BTL and showed them.
Paul Roberts reply :
Excellent review of "reviews". And excellent advice on navigating them.
@reelChris reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 8:28 PM, Swbass15 said:Don’t be to quick to knock all the off brand cheap gear. There are pro anglers using on tour, in tournaments some of the $20 dollar reels available on Amazon. They know they are not the same as shimano or abu or any other name brand. But they tout them as disposable reels. Cheap efficient reels to use and then when they crap out toss them and use a new one.
his term for them disposable reels.
What? Reels that break during tournaments or practice cost you time and money. That's the opposite of efficient.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 9:12 AM, schplurg said:I don't know that many people here would want to play it,
I want to play it. I'm looking for a real fishing simulator instead of the arcade style games out there. Lately I've been playing Fishing Sim World Pro Tour and it's decent but not great.
cgolf reply :
I can see both sides. I was on the staff of a company that created a new website and they wanted team members to put some 5 star reviews out there. I of course did it, but can justify because those were my real reviews.
I was an early user and promoter of the product and believed in it before they offered me a spot on the team. What I hate is the folks on social media that jump brands every year to get the best deals, and watch them trash old brands and promote the new brand that just a month ago the old brand was better than;)
As far as Amazon goes, looking for a garmin for my daughters car, the off brands had great reviews until reading them you could tell they were fake. Even the product promo page had misspellings. Almost as bad as fake reviews are the clueless reviews. Looking at soft tip darts, people would rate a high priced set 1 Star because a tip broke lol.
islandbass reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 9:12 AM, schplurg said:Still reading these. A lot of good info.
It surprised me that they would put money in my PayPal account so I could make the purchase. I think that's a newer tactic. I called my sister when this all started because this smelled like a rip-off to me, and she said she reviewed a phone case for a seller once and it was the same process.
The emails always started with "Hey Mate!" then would continue in very broken and poorly translated sentences.
I want to say here that the company PLUSINNO (they spell it all caps) is not the one who bribed me to change my review, though I believe they were about to do so. I just didn't reply to their query on why I lowered my review.
The company that did bribe me was TopSport. They all sell the same stuff and who knows maybe they're all under one parent company, but wanted to clarify that. The rod stand Plusinno sent me was quite good and I use it.
By the way, I used to develop iPhone games and it's the same thing as far as reviews go, you can buy them, although I think Apple does a better job sorting them out. Apple is hardcore.
Edit to add: (why can't I bold anything suddenly?)
Speaking of iPhone games, I have been playing around with designing a bass fishing sim. This would be based on real bass behavior as much as possible, and I was thinking about starting a thread about it here.
Right now I have a large pond with a bass that can travel around. It seeks locations depending on time of day for now, very basic, but I'm working on water temp, depth, length of day, and other stuff. Hunger, fear, energy, aggressiveness...
What I'm trying to do is make a bass that will live a life cycle as a real bass would, getting bigger, smarter maybe, and then building a fishing sim around that. No BS in-app purchases - I'm too old-school for that.
Anyways I thought maybe I could get insights from the experts here and maybe it would be a fun thing to do. I may start a thread.
I don't know that many people here would want to play it, but I'd make it easy even for non-gamers (easy to play, not easy to catch!). And I have written a best selling iPhone game so I'm no slouch. I'm not even looking to get rich (uh, it's a fishing game).
Oh and the fish at this point will attack and bite a bait I made but it's pretty basic so far. Nothing even close to playable.
We'll see.
I'd play it, lol.
Thanks for the advice.
I recently ordered 3 plussino telescoping rods and let me pepper this by saying that under 99.99999% of the time, I would never ever consider buying any telescopic rod. But need and reality met and I had to swallow the fact that a telescopic rod was the "most practical" choice for me. The true travel rods were too expensive and usually not long enough and if they were the length I wanted (minimum 8'6"), I knew that 2-piece rods weren't going to fit in my luggage. I also did not want to mail them home ahead of me.
To make a long story short, I was expecting junk out of the box, but the cost of the 3 rods was well within my margin of disappointment, lol. (I was willing to risk it and get burned, lol). They performed surprisingly well for my brothers and me. Honestly, I couldn't believe it and I recall seeing the reviews on how some broke on the first try. We worked them hard in four trips and I had one monster on that I never saw. The 8'6 rod did its job and matched that fish every second of the battle.
Unfortunately, my fault 100%. I had chosen 10# mono based on my SW fishing in Mazatlan thinking this would be sufficient. Definitely not for my home away from home in the Pacific. I knew what I spooled up was not going to be sufficient the moment I looked at the conditions we faced, but you have to use what you have, lol. And I could kick myself in the rear for knowing in my gut to go with main braid and a 12-20# leader. It was an awesome battle. A violent take... waves crashing during the fight, and this fish pulled so hard. It was a beautiful thing. The cheapy reel's drag actually held up. Another shock, but I would bet longevity would probably be its Achilles heel. I was praying that the fish would not run the line over some sharp rocks or coral but after about a good few minutes of battling, the line was cut but either teeth or razor sharp coral. I might as well have used sewing thread, lol.
The rods should hold up for my brothers and dad, but I will be getting them something like a 5-6000 sized penn battle or something like them so that they can handle the brutes back home. On the bright side, on our last outing my brother and I saw a large sea turtle and even more cool, a black tip sharp. I almost jumped in to follow it, but even islandbass knows he is not a match for crashing waves, razor sharp coral and rocks or being withing 100 feet of a serious deep blue drop off, lol.
Shimano_1 reply :
And Jeff Bezos just keeps getting richer....I'm glad you posted this. I used to buy a lot from Amazon but similar situations to what u describe are why I've gotten away from them. If the dude can build the most successful empire in the history of the world surely he can figure out a way to fix this bs. I'll stick to tacklewarehouse and other reputable places
schplurg reply :
On 1/14/2020 at 7:38 AM, islandbass said:I'd play it, lol.
Thanks for the advice.
I recently ordered 3 plussino telescoping rods and let me pepper this by saying that under 99.99999% of the time, I would never ever consider buying any telescopic rod. But need and reality met and I had to swallow the fact that a telescopic rod was the "most practical" choice for me. The true travel rods were too expensive and usually not long enough and if they were the length I wanted (minimum 8'6"), I knew that 2-piece rods weren't going to fit in my luggage. I also did not want to mail them home ahead of me.
To make a long story short, I was expecting junk out of the box, but the cost of the 3 rods was well within my margin of disappointment, lol. (I was willing to risk it and get burned, lol). They performed surprisingly well for my brothers and me. Honestly, I couldn't believe it and I recall seeing the reviews on how some broke on the first try. We worked them hard in four trips and I had one monster on that I never saw. The 8'6 rod did its job and matched that fish every second of the battle.
Unfortunately, my fault 100%. I had chosen 10# mono based on my SW fishing in Mazatlan thinking this would be sufficient. Definitely not for my home away from home in the Pacific. I knew what I spooled up was not going to be sufficient the moment I looked at the conditions we faced, but you have to use what you have, lol. And I could kick myself in the rear for knowing in my gut to go with main braid and a 12-20# leader. It was an awesome battle. A violent take... waves crashing during the fight, and this fish pulled so hard. It was a beautiful thing. The cheapy reel's drag actually held up. Another shock, but I would bet longevity would probably be its Achilles heel. I was praying that the fish would not run the line over some sharp rocks or coral but after about a good few minutes of battling, the line was cut but either teeth or razor sharp coral. I might as well have used sewing thread, lol.
The rods should hold up for my brothers and dad, but I will be getting them something like a 5-6000 sized penn battle or something like them so that they can handle the brutes back home. On the bright side, on our last outing my brother and I saw a large sea turtle and even more cool, a black tip sharp. I almost jumped in to follow it, but even islandbass knows he is not a match for crashing waves, razor sharp coral and rocks or being withing 100 feet of a serious deep blue drop off, lol.
Fake review ^^^! Just kidding!
Ya they can make some good stuff for the price. I'm not trying to knock the product itself. Like I said the rod stand is cool. I wouldn't pay $40 for it though. I would imagine the rods and reels are the same parts found on any other cheap combos.
Aw man I have to go to work today. I wanted to go fishing yesterday but the lakes here suck on a good day. During winter? Forget it!
Manly Studson reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 11:10 PM, Glenn said:Which pros are you referencing?
Yeah, I’d like to know too. Fishing is a sport. Like other sports, competitors want lighter, more durable gear. Football players want thin, but forgiving shoulder pads which can take a beating. Pro anglers want light, fatigue-reducing, sensitive gear. I would think that the pros would use the best they can get.
fvogel67 reply :
www.fakespot.com/company/KastKing
islandbass reply :
On 1/15/2020 at 3:49 AM, schplurg said:
Fake review ^^^! Just kidding!
Ya they can make some good stuff for the price. I'm not trying to knock the product itself. Like I said the rod stand is cool. I wouldn't pay $40 for it though. I would imagine the rods and reels are the same parts found on any other cheap combos.
Aw man I have to go to work today. I wanted to go fishing yesterday but the lakes here suck on a good day. During winter? Forget it!
Lucky I didn't have a cup of coffee in hand. You are right about the reviews on Amazon and other sites. It behooves you to do your research and due diligence. In my neck of the woods as a bank angler, it's definitely a no go to bass fish. That's why I hope you develop that app. Something has to help us bummed out to make it through the winter, lol.
Swbass15 reply :
@Glenn I believe it is Brad from BTL. They committed a whole session of one of the podcast to it. Very interesting take on using inexpensive reels and how he goes about ordering and such. This also dipped a little bit into the cost savings for an angler on a budget and such. I believe if I remember correctly it was another FLW pro who turned him on to them.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 1/16/2020 at 5:58 AM, Swbass15 said:@Glenn I believe it is Brad from BTL. They committed a whole session of one of the podcast to it. Very interesting take on using inexpensive reels and how he goes about ordering and such. This also dipped a little bit into the cost savings for an angler on a budget and such. I believe if I remember correctly it was another FLW pro who turned him on to them.
That's one I saw and then there was an interview of a pro I saw on youtube where the guy only used knock off reels as well.
j bab reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 7:11 AM, schplurg said:To avoid these fakes, try sorting the reviews by "Most Recent" rather than "Most Popular"
By doing this and by reading lots of 3-4 star reviews, you'll be able to sniff out the fakes pretty quick. This goes for ANY product on Amazon.
Another thing these scammers will do is change the product for a piece of junk after the product page is loaded with good reviews. Somehow Amazon allows this, it is extremely deceptive. The same applies to fleabay, scammers will buy accounts that have lots of good feedback then proceed to rip you off.
One more thing - if a product page has a bunch of different products listed as variations, more often than not these are loaded with fake reviews too. Use the review search function and read the reviews for the specific variation you're interested in.
Koz reply :
On 1/13/2020 at 12:43 PM, schplurg said:
You may be able to read some of the values/variables I have for the fish on the right of the image. The blocks at the bottom near the dock are for path-finding testing. Just thought I'd post a pic to show I'm actually doing this
Also nothing you see would ever be good enough to be seen in a finished game.
The biggest gripe I have with fishing games is that just about every catch - no matter the size and species - is like fighting a Marlin. If I hook a 3 pound bass in a game it shouldn't take me 5 minutes to reel it in, even if I'm using 6 pound line.
So if I had my game design wish list it would be:
1. The first challenge is finding the fish based upon seasonality, time of day, and weather. But there also has to be an element of randomness as well. I hate fishing games like Fishing Planet where the a specific species of fish is always going to be in the same few spots.
2. Outliers. Even the perfect bass spot under specific conditions will contain other fish species - even if they are the prey.
3. Have different, subtle clues at different times as to what the bass are likely to feed on. Is that a bait ball over there? Frogs on jumping in from the bank or croaking? Are those dragonflies over there? In other words, most games add these items as ambience. Make them mean something at different times.
4. While a lot of lures can catch fish at any specific moment. not every lure works at the same time. Sometimes lure choice is key, and sometimes lure color is key.
5. Once the fish are located, lure depth, speed, and presentation should also factor in. You may catch a few ripping a crankbait, but you may catch even more at that same place and time by lifting and dropping a jig.
6. Mix it up with water clarity and adjust lure production accordingly.
7. Instead of every fish fighting like a marlin, make the hook sets the first key in landing a fish. But again, if I'm fishing 50 pound braid on a MH rod it shouldn't take all day to reel in a 5 pound bass and my reel shouldn't get spooled nor should I worry too much about the line breaking unless I screwed up the drag or clipped it on rocks. Of course, if I'm using 4 pound test that's a different story.
8. Teaching moments - matching the right rod and reel combos with the right lures and fishing lines. Pick the wrong mix and good hook sets are harder to achieve.
9. If you make a lake in the southeast there must be alligators. Even some that might try to eat you, your catch, or your bait. ????
Anyway, that's a few things off the top of my head. I'll let you know if I come up with more. Best of luck on your endeavor.
schplurg reply :
I agree with pretty much everything you said!!! I don't know if I can comment on all of it. I'm tired.
Fish will not always be where we think they should be in the game. There will be randomness in that, however I'm trying to make it less "random". For instance, in real life, a bass may go off an expected path, but for a reason, not just randomness. I assume
So each fish will have many traits which will cause it to do things different than other fish. Some will tend to school more than others, spawn late, not spawn.
And I don't know enough about their behavior, especially first-hand to do all of this. I read and learn about behavior and that is helping a lot, but there is also the fishing aspect of the game.
And really, all the player sees is what's above the water, depending on clarity. So what happens there is everything. What happens below can be whatever needs to be in order to make it SEEM real to the player, even if I have to fake stuff. This is a major rule in game design - fake it if you have to.
I mean really I could just cast, run a random number, generator and let that decide if you get a bite. Another random number decides whether or not you get the hook set. There could be no actual fish in the water at all. But that sucks and isn't realistic. Umm...or is it?
Fights should be realistic. One key is getting the controls for the rod and reel correct. My ultimate goal would be a wireless Wii type controller with vibration. I have crazier ideas than that but they aren't practical.
I use 10 pound mono and have never broke my line (of course I will), so I don't want the key to a fight to be not snapping it. My knots have failed though 
It shouldn't be too difficult to land a fish because it isn't in real life. I mean I'm a beginner and I land way more that I lose once a fight begins. A strong fish can thrash harder, one with more aggression too. That can be a factor.
I'm not sure yet how to do the "fish won't bite just any lure" thing yet. That's on the list though. Everything is, and it's an awful lot!
The bait fish thing is something I've thought about. Hard to explain though. I will show signs they are there to the angler, and other food.
The Big Problem
One huge gigantic pig of an issue is that I want to make a living breathing fishery. I'd love for the fish to grow bigger, migrate from their different spots, some going far distance, most not.
But how do you do that when the player turns the game off and on all the time? The lake can only live while the game is running. Most fishing games probably simply roll-the-dice when the game begins. Placing fish where they "should be", and adding some randomness to that as well.
I want my fish to have swam there, and maybe eaten some lunch on the way.
One way around it would be to run a master game on a server(s) that always runs, simulating the environment and fish. Players start the game and download the current fish data to their own device. No massive multiplayer where you have to sit around with a bunch of dorks messaging each other.
But who'd want to play in the dead of winter? You need to be able to play any time of day you want, and any day. So maybe use historical or projected data from the game on the server .....and now I'm a bit full of crap maybe, because that sounds tough
But that is the major hurdle. I suppose most games dump a bunch of fishing knowledge into a huge algorithm that spits out fish where they should go. Maybe I'm stupid to not just do it that way, and maybe I'll be forced to.
What really matters is what the player sees. Maybe I'm getting too into the whole fish behavior thing. I'm enjoying designing the fish though.
Anyways, I now have a clock that runs and can control the sun position. It will, with a few more lines of code, place the sun in a realistic position any time of year (lower in the winter...). So now I can set a date and time and fish any time I want.
Except I can't fish yet. I may just jump to that, working on the fishing aspect. Just very basic stuff. I should because I'm not 100% sure I'm going to do this project. I have thought about it for quite awhile though and can envision how to do most of it.
Anyways, I'll start a thread soon probably.
Oh and thanks for all of the input!
basseditor reply :
I was offered some free reels in exchange for video reviews on Amazon because of my YouTube videos. I had to buy the products then do the review. (They said to be honest in my review.)
The reels turned out to be decent and inexpensive. I gave them a good review, and then they sent me a reimbursement via PayPal. They offered me a sponsorship but I didn’t want to change brands at the time.
That brand is now popular with many people.
So, it’s not all bad.
Luke Barnes reply :
I would play that game for sure!!! I .....may...... play on my phone a little bit too much. So having a fishing sim would be amazing for me!!
Koz reply :
On 1/19/2020 at 3:06 PM, schplurg said:I'm not sure yet how to do the "fish won't bite just any lure" thing yet. That's on the list though. Everything is, and it's an awful lot!
Let's assume your lake has different zones such as a rocky zone, a woody vegetation / laydown zone, an aquatic grass zone, a millfoil zone, a lily pad zone, etc. Each zone gets a seed or multiple seeds based upon time of day, weather conditions, seasonality, sun angle, etc.
Each zone has primary, secondary, and tertiary natural bait types and these are weighted on seasonality, time of day, etc. This could take a lot of code, but you could start out with a simple model like baitfish hide out in the weeds, frogs are in lily pads or on logs, etc.
The "will the fish bite" routine factors in how closely the lure matches the primary, secondary, and tertiary natural baits based upon shape, size, color, speed, depth, etc. probably combined with a minor randomness factor applied by either the lure or the actual fish (i.e. some fish hit anything or are really hungry at that moment).
It could be a huge pile of code, or their might be a way to develop each seed then create an algorithm to determine the bite. I think the primary seed or primary algorithm base would be seasonality.
QuoteOne huge gigantic pig of an issue is that I want to make a living breathing fishery. I'd love for the fish to grow bigger, migrate from their different spots, some going far distance, most not.
But how do you do that when the player turns the game off and on all the time? The lake can only live while the game is running. Most fishing games probably simply roll-the-dice when the game begins. Placing fish where they "should be", and adding some randomness to that as well.
First off, is the game play clock accelerated or real time? Or will it be real time and you let the players jump ahead to more favorable fishing times or night fishing? Or jump ahead to more favorable seasons?
You could have a game play clock and an environment clock, but I don't have an elegant solution of the top of my head for those to mesh. Heck - keep it simple - have it follow the actual calendar date. When a player logs in on any given date the game play start time is 5 am or 6 am for that calendar day. Players can accelerate time up to the actual time and date.
Then you could run a master game on your server and when a player logs in that day the new variables are uploaded to their device. Maybe push data only once a week or once a month.
Anyway, it's a HUGE undertaking. My guess is that it will push the boundaries of memory usage and processing power on handheld devices. It may be better to develop for PS4 or XBox.
schplurg reply :
People like to play on handheld but I don't know that a) this game would be playable, and b) it would provide a good fishing experience - my opinion.
The trees and lake/environment will be realistic and require a lot of power, and I will most likely have someone else do that work. I can make a working prototype that we all can play (yes I will upload demos as I go), and if it gets serious I'll call in some people who do better graphics than I do, probably.
I think I'm going to work on the fishing part now for a bit, just to see what other obstacles that will bring. If I want to actually finish this game, and I think most games people start never get finished, I need to keep it from getting out of control and too big. Start with something simple and see if it works, then expand.
I mean I could have the most realistic environment ever created and still have a game that sucks. It's all about user experience, not necessarily reality. It has to seem real.
So there will be compromise in that regard.
As for the time, it can be accelerated or slowed or maybe even stopped.
I'm most likely going to have to ditch the real-time environment thing and go with something more feasible.
Or maybe I can run a sim for a month, record certain aspects of that, then apply it to the game. Like design the fish, let them swim for a few weeks (a year in the game maybe) and track their movements, then apply that data.
Ya I think I'll work on the fishing/above water stuff for now and see if I really need to get that crazy.
Most games these days are designed to pick money out of your pockets, not to be realistic or exceptional. As much thought goes into monetization as in game design. In fact, many games are designed around a money system. It sucks and has ruined gaming, at least for me. Games suck now, especially mobile.
Sadly, I have found zero joy in searching for and playing any mobile games lately. It's a terrible experience. Menus translated from Chinese, and about as much quality as a cheap Chinese reel. So much crap. Oh and they track and sell your info too. Yay.
My games do not and will not be designed to screw the player in any way. I'm old school. If I want to nickel and dime people I'll open an arcade. It's stupid how we started out paying per game in arcades long ago, then got home consoles so we don't need to do that anymore, and now we are back to pay-to-play again! What a world.
Thank all the cheap people who want free everything. People actually complain about paying a dollar for a game. Wow. Now some want free income for all! It's a bad trend. But I digress...
A game for anglers designed by an angler(s), a cheap angler who buys cheap bait, cheap video games and has had had it with everyone else's BS. "I've had all I can stand I can't stands no more!!!"
Okay I better start another thread, sorry for hijacking this one.
Amazon reviews - I looked at action cams the other day - why even bother. It's bad. Ya I can sort out the BS but man what a pain. I just need the specs mostly anyways.
Chance_Taker4 reply :
I've even seen this with businesses like TW. Granted TW took them down pretty timely but there was a reel that was announced at ICAST. The next day TW had it up for pre order and there were already reviews about how great of a reel it was and what its best used for. But like I said TW ended up taking the reviews down. it has gotten to the point now that I will not even read reviews about anything now a days, can't trust any of them.
Dangerfield reply :
If you're ever concerned about the reviews on Amazon or Best Buy or Walmart. Copy the URL, go to https://www.fakespot.com and paste the retailer site URL into their search bar. It will analyze that webpage based on the time of the reviews and how many were entered etc. It's the easiest way to determine counterfeit reviews.
If you're like me, addicted to tackle but like to be frugal about it or don't like paying for shipping or getting hit by customs, I think Amazon can be great. If you weren't aware, one of Amazon's biggest tricks is that their prices fluctuate on a daily basis, sometimes twice a day. I urge any Amazon shopper to check out camelcamelcamel.com, it's similar to fakespot.com in that you need the URL from Amazon, but what it does is checks the pricing history of item from Amazon and their 3rd party retailers. You can add those URLs to a list and have camelcamelcamel track those products for you and send you an email when the product has hit your desired price/amount. They even have a Chrome/Firefox extension, so you can analyze while you shop with an overlay. I am not affiliated with either of these websites, I just like passing on good information and a deal to any fellow angler.
the reel ess reply :
I noticed a negative review I did of one of Academy Sports' house brand baits is gone.
schplurg reply :
Hey all, just briefly...and I hope this is okay...
I just wanted to mention that the fishing video game thread was closed because it was pushing the forum rules about commercial threads.
Just want to say that if I continue working on it and have anything to share that I would love to do so here. Of course I would speak with Glenn first and see if it's okay.
Since I mentioned the game in this thread I thought it would be a good place to say this. Thanks to everyone for the feedback and thanks to Glenn for being cool and having the best bass forum on the web. And I mean that. It's the friendliest, it is very active, and it isn't ugly to look at (other than our avatars I mean).
To get back on topic - I bought some stuff on Amazon but based on recommendations from this forum, not Amazon reviews, including a split-ring plier from Texas tackle, some trebles, and a sharpener (and a computer mouse).
Took me only three baits to figure out a good "system" for replacing hooks.
I used to to read here about "good split rings" and now I know what that means...ones that can survive the pliers!
CrankFate reply :
It goes waaaaaay deeper than amazon. In fact, seriously, this is one of the rare message boards that is not solely aimed at steering people towards specific products from specific makers. I hate asking about products that I only buy once every few years online—because most forums like this are just a scam to get you to buy particular products that the members are indirectly affiliated with. Beware. There is very little honest advice out there.
schplurg reply :
How could a forum member make a buck if they aren't directly affiliated (being paid maybe?). I don't see the point unless you have stake in the company as there is no way to get a commission, say like you can with a Youtube channel sale.
I guess they could try to post some kind of affiliate link here if that's possible, like the Youtube description links. That would be easy for a forum to filter though, if they cared to.
I must be stupid, I do product reviews for nothing on my channel and I don't make money off the links should anyone use them. I'm too lazy to care.
Anyways, yesterday I tried searching the web for landing nets. Once again I got sites like "BestNetForYou.com" with fake "top 10 lists" in broken English. "This net all big fun for you catch fishes in ease!"
So the companies sell crap, then make fake fishing sites and landing pages with BS "top 10 lists". They got all their bases covered.
The more I see of the world today the more I want to go fishing and be alone, and I mean that
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