Are big* bass smarter or just rare? 2024
FCPhil reply :
This past year I caught 82 bass over a pound (I’m shorebound) including my PB which was 5lb 7oz. My next biggest of the year was 3-14 followed by a few more 3’s.
These numbers got me thinking, are larger bass really smarter/harder to catch, or are the just rare? It seems possible where I fish that a 5 pounder is simply a 1 out of 82 fish. (*I realize big is a relative term depending where you fish).
Typically I have assumed larger bass were more difficult to catch for one of the following reasons:
1. They have learned over years of being caught and released to avoid lures (but I have heard studies show they have very little ability to reason like this).
2. Their temperament is less aggressive so they are less likely to be caught and live longer (but then it seems they would be out-competed for food).
3. They have happened to choose to inhabit areas of the lake that not fished as often (seems to only apply for bank fishing).
On the other hand, if large fish are just rare, not harder to catch, why are they more vulnerable in the pre-spawn and fall when they feeding drive is heightened, and less likely to be caught other times of the year like smaller bass?
N Florida Mike reply :
It depends on where your fishing. ???? Big fish could be rare to common. In Most waters I would say less common, but not rare.
They are smarter, just like any other living thing thats been around awhile.
Animals are easier to catch/hunt when their attention is distracted from caution to food and breeding.
Bankbeater reply :
I wouldn't say they are smarter, but they are definitely conditioned to their surroundings.
Mobasser reply :
Lots of fisherman won't put in the time needed to learn the location of big bass. To me, this is the main reason fewer are caught. Location is the key.
BassWhole! reply :
Put me squarely on the rarer column.
"On the other hand, if large fish are just rare, not harder to catch, why are they more vulnerable in the pre-spawn and fall when they feeding drive is heightened, and less likely to be caught other times of the year like smaller bass?"
I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe because they are concentrated in predictable areas which are easily targeted and accessible to more anglers from both boat and shore, not to mention the increased metabolism from rising h2o temps, and in the case of males the GNC effect...... Nah, they just get dumber....
Catt reply :
#1 what body of water?
#2 define big?
Take your 5# bass, here on Toledo Bend a 25# tournament sack normal. Some bodies of water down here 12-15# sacks are big.
the reel ess reply :
If you fish a place with more big bass, they won't be as "smart". But I believe big bass in a place with a lot of smaller bass, that sees a good bit of pressure are more well-educated. Add to this that most people don't keep any bass anymore and you get bass that have seen or fallen for several different artificials. Even a worm can learn from negative experiences.
How rare they are depends on where you're fishing. And "big" is a relative term. In a place where 5 lb. catches are common, "big" takes on a different meaning.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
According to Keith Jones in his book “Knowing Bass,” as bass grow their visual and lateral line sensory systems likely improve.
Smarter? Well that’s a hard thing to measure, but more sensitive/aware of their environment, probably.
TnRiver46 reply :
I can say one thing with 100 percent certainty: a big bass is much more capable of pulling loose, jumping off, or breaking your line. Therefore they are captured less frequently
WRB reply :
The biggest bass in any River, lake or pond will always be the fewest number of bass.
The problem the big bass faces growing in public waters is being aggressive enough to eat enough prey or out compete other smaller bass without getting caught and killed.
If a bass doesn't have the ability to aviod being caught it will not survive, so most big bass aviod anglers.
Being shore bond reduces where you can fish. The one seasonal period where big femal bass are the most volnerable is during the spawn and shore anglers can easily locate them. The fact these bass are focused on spawning they are no longer wary.
When the big female bass is done with the spawn it's back to survival and avoiding being caught.
Tom
CrankFate reply :
If natural selection actually occurs, we should all practice catch and release, so all the stupid fish that eat plastic and rubber with metal on it multiply. If we kill all the dumb ones, then we’ll be left with fish that are smarter, have better eyesight, sense of vibration and everything else that makes them harder to catch.
Gundog reply :
A basses brain is small...
meaning it only has a few functions. Reasoning isn't one of them. You can't teach them algebra or philosophy or even the fact that Tiger Wood's career in golf is pretty much over, he'll never win another major tournament and he should just retire and enjoy the billion dollars he has. But I digress. A fishes brain is for only eating and making little fishes. He has no inclination to learn not to hit certain lures or be educated in the ways of us anglers. And I think we are better for this.
Choporoz reply :
On 1/28/2019 at 2:31 PM, FCPhil said:Are big* bass smarter or ...?
Despite a brain the size of a lima bean, they are unquestionably smarter than I
FCPhil reply :
On 1/28/2019 at 8:46 PM, Catt said:#1 what body of water?
#2 define big?
Take your 5# bass, here on Toledo Bend a 25# tournament sack normal. Some bodies of water down here 12-15# sacks are big.
I assume what makes a 5# bass difficult to catch in my waters, and what makes a #10 bass difficult to catch in other waters is the same. Maybe it’s different though...
On 1/28/2019 at 8:21 PM, reason said:Put me squarely on the rarer column.
"On the other hand, if large fish are just rare, not harder to catch, why are they more vulnerable in the pre-spawn and fall when they feeding drive is heightened, and less likely to be caught other times of the year like smaller bass?"
I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe because they are concentrated in predictable areas which are easily targeted and accessible to more anglers from both boat and shore, not to mention the increased metabolism from rising h2o temps, and in the case of males the GNC effect...... Nah, they just get dumber....
I would expect larger bass have to eat much more, which should actually work in our favor, making them more likely to be caught if they are eating more prey. The fact they are not caught as often seems to suggest they do avoid lures, despite hunting more food. Maybe they just eat bigger prey?
At this point I’m leaning that both are a factor. It seems like if large bass were only rare, they would make up an equal percentage of catches year round. But in my experience, they are by far most likely to be caught in the pre-spawn and Fall. During the post-spawn, I catch the majority of my fish because they are concentrated by the spawning bluegills on the bank, but none of them are the truly big ones for my water.
Catt reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:12 AM, Gundog said:A basses brain is small...
meaning it only has a few functions. Reasoning isn't one of them. You can't teach them algebra or philosophy or even the fact that Tiger Wood's career in golf is pretty much over, he'll never win another major tournament and he should just retire and enjoy the billion dollars he has. But I digress. A fishes brain is for only eating and making little fishes. He has no inclination to learn not to hit certain lures or be educated in the ways of us anglers. And I think we are better for this.
Some have went as far as putting them on an unreachable throne!
Some even say bass evolve but seldom mention so has the angler!
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:18 AM, FCPhil said:I would expect larger bass have to eat much more, which should actually work in our favor, making them more likely to be caught if they are eating more prey. The fact they are not caught as often seems to suggest they do avoid lures, despite hunting more food. Maybe they just eat bigger prey?
Yes, they eat more, and they eat larger prey, so that math is almost a wash. There is just a lot less larger fish than smaller fish. There is a lot of scientific papers on fish reproduction, survival, distribution and other related subjects. Follow a YOY brood, and one can see that the catch per unit effort by sizes makes perfect sense without imagining that fish somehow get "smart" as they grow. Unlike some mammals whose survival strategy is have few (or one) off spring at a time and spend enormous time and energy ensuring it's survival, most fish do the exact opposite (except in the TVAs) where they start out with a bizillion (poetic license) off spring, and set them off to the cruel world, where mortality rates start out crazy high (technical term) and taper off somewhat as they grow.
superkamikazee reply :
Up in the north east, a 5#er sure does feel rare unless you're fishing for smallies at the reservoir. So they're either very smart or just few and far between. I catch plenty of 2-3# bass but haven't got anything near 5#. Maybe this year? Lol
A-Jay reply :
Are big bass smarter or just rare?
Interesting topic and one that's been discussed & debated here in the past.
The past responses and the recent ones here, do seem similar & perhaps split 50/50.
My version may not be much different.
First, I'm not exactly sure what we're calling 'a big bass', but for the sake of this discussion, I'll use whatever the 'Master Angler' size bass is in a particular state as a guide.
So in my own fishing, there are way more opportunities / locations locally, that are home to that caliber of Smallmouth than Largemouth. And I have been fortunate enough to catch a few of both. The Bigger brown bass I can catch here in MI and the bigger Green bass I travel south of the border to catch.
So in my earlier years of angling, when I had considerably less experience than I do now, I thought Big Bass Were Super Rare and just had to be Very Smart, mostly because I never caught any, ever. Now granted I fish quite a bit from shore or from a small row boat or canoe but either way, a 3 pound fish was a monster back them.
As my bass fishing horizons began to broaden, I started to look at this deal a little differently. Once I was able to put more time on the water, in places that had bigger fish in them, I started catching bigger bass. While I wasn't doing a whole lot different, I was just in more fertile lakes & I was able to cover more water.
So this seemed to indicate to me that Big Bass might not necessarily be smarter per se, but do seem to make up a much smaller percentage of the total population.
More time on the water has also taught me the importance of timing, when it comes to catching the bigger bass. Other than the actual spawn, consistently finding, feeding big bass, is about as hard as it gets when it comes to bass fishing IMO. However, the more big bass there are in an environment, the better chances I had. Seems simple but when looking to put the odds in ones favor, it's something that really can not be ignored.
So if we do the right thing, at the right place and at the right time, as much as we can - it stands to reason that we'll catch some big bass. But it's So Random. Sometimes it happens right away and over & over again. Other times, not so much. In fact, it takes so long that we think it might never happen - but you can't give up.
So all that said, are big bass smarter or just super rare. My response is, it depends. I think it can be both and neither.
In some places they can be rare, other places not so much. Some bass can be warier than others as well. But wary, is a relative term. In my mind, any & every bass, regardless of size, can be caught, giving the right circumstances (and I'm excluding the spawn).
I've said this before and do believe it to be true. Put an average angler, willing fish hard & put time in, on an above average body of water, and you'll be surprised at what can happen.
A-Jay
scaleface reply :
I have witnessed bass behavior change with fishing pressure . They may not have the ability to reason but it seems they can react negatively to being caught . They are of course rarer . There is only one biggest bass in the pond and a bizillion little ones .
WRB reply :
Population density is everything, can't catch a 10 lb bass where they don't live. Let's say for discussion your lake has 0 bass over 10 lbs your odds catching it is 0. Your lake has 1 bass 7 lbs and 5,000 bass under 7 lbs, your odds are 5,000 to 1 catching that 7 lb bass, if you fish where that bass lives, if not your odds fall to 0, same chance of catching a 10 lb bass.
Location, timing then lure presentation all must come together to catch big bass.
Tom
FCPhil reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:50 AM, reason said:Yes, they eat more, and they eat larger prey, so that math is almost a wash. There is just a lot less larger fish than smaller fish. There is a lot of scientific papers on fish reproduction, survival, distribution and other related subjects. Follow a YOY brood, and one can see that the catch per unit effort by sizes makes perfect sense without imagining that fish somehow get "smart" as they grow. Unlike some mammals whose survival strategy is have few (or one) off spring at a time and spend enormous time and energy ensuring it's survival, most fish do the exact opposite (except in the TVAs) where they start out with a bizillion (poetic license) off spring, and set them off to the cruel world, where mortality rates start out crazy high (technical term) and taper off somewhat as they grow.
You said you believe larger bass are caught more frequently pre-spawn because they are concentrated in shallow water. I agree but that is true of all bass. Do you find they make up a larger percentage of catches certain times of year than others and if so, what is your take on why?
@WRB what is your take on why larger bass make up a differing percentage of catches through the year? (If you agree they do). Also, does fishing pressure factor in? It seems to certainly affect fish making them more wary or less in my experience.
On 1/29/2019 at 1:05 AM, scaleface said:I have witnessed bass behavior change with fishing pressure . They may not have the ability to reason but it seems they can react negatively to being caught . They are of course rarer . There is only one biggest bass in the pond and a bizillion little ones .
I agree there must be something to this. Even if it is not intelligent reasoning like we have, it seems they somehow can be conditioned by fishing pressure to be more wary of unknown lures.
As my wife jokes about one swimbait I had, a bass says to another bass “Hey Gary, look at how that goofy fish is swimming!” “Weird, lets stay away!”
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 1:15 AM, FCPhil said:You said you believe larger bass are caught more frequently pre-spawn because they are concentrated in shallow water. I agree but that is true of all bass. Do you find they make up a larger percentage of catches certain times of year than others and if so, what is your take on why?
Yes, In addition to the pre spawn, which is one of the best times to catch a large fish, I like late summer afternoons, The fall on the first really cold front, and after they come off the spawn funk in that order. It depends on where one fishes, The shallow natural lakes and the Potomac river here fish differently than large reservoirs which in themselves come in a few flavors. Most sexually mature fish are going to be around the same areas during the pre spawn and spawn, so yes, there will be more smaller fish than larger ones, but it increases the odds quite a bit. I have a couple of places where I go looking shallow to deep from the spawning areas, and start out picking one here, one there, then when I get a couple of large males in a row, I know a real one isn't far behind. I like to get out as often as possible then, cause once you find the main body of fish, they will move up and back up with the changing conditions, but they won't go far, so it's a couple of weeks of bent rods. I go looking for cleared spots as early as Late Feb, and that keys me in on when the first fish move up. But I will say that every lake is different, and every year is different, so I do what the fish want on a given day.
Troy85 reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 1:05 AM, scaleface said:I have witnessed bass behavior change with fishing pressure . They may not have the ability to reason but it seems they can react negatively to being caught . They are of course rarer . There is only one biggest bass in the pond and a bizillion little ones .
I agree. I thinks its a combination of being more rare as well as being conditioned from being caught multiple times. I don't think they are "smarter", but but become more wary from being caught. Same is true with all animals, a squirrel in a public park will eat peanuts out of your hand, take squirrels that has been shot at on a hunting preserve, you snap one little twig and you can watch him scurry off into the wooded sunset.
WRB reply :
Any bass angler interested in catching big bass should get Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass and read it. Adult Characterics chapter starts on page 17 to page 34. I can't add anything that Bill hasn't discussed.
Tom
portiabrat reply :
I suggest looking at DNR surveys. Where I fish, it takes a bass 12+ years to get to five lbs. According to DNR surveys in the lake, less than 5% of bass reach this age, so big fish much more are rare than average-sized fish. A lot has to go right for a fish to reach that age.
Catt reply :
One thing that's never mentioned in these discussions is what is the average bass's life expectancy?
Texas Parks & Wildlife research has proven that genetically speaking not every bass is capable of attaining 10# plus status regardless of diet.
The whole premise of their stocking program is to stock local waters with fingerlings with the genetics from a 13# plus bass.
This not only increases the size of the overall population but it increases the numbers bass in the 10# plus size.
If the population of bass in your local waters doesn't have the genetics to attain 10# plus it never will.
WRB reply :
Where I fish the FLMB that grow over 10 lbs are all female bass that live somewhere between 7 to 15 years. Male FLMB live about the same length of time and rarely grow heavier then 6 lbs, 4 lbs is a big male in my nick of the woods. The majority of males guarding nest sites are between 2 lbs to 3 lbs, a few 3 1/2 to 4 lbs. My biggest male bass was a northern strain 6 lb., 25" long from San Vicente back in '69 that Larry Bothroff examined and determined the bass was around 15 years old looking at scales and stated he hasn't examined a bigger male.
Another factor to consider is big bass get big at a young age by out competing their year class competition and continue to most of thier lifetime then start to lose body mass at old age the last year or so of thier life. Prime weight age appears to be 12 years old in SoCal bass lakes.
When a bass gets to an adult size weighing over 4 lbs it does and goes whatever it wants to and becomes unpredictable behavior until the spawn cycle. These big bass move around and sometimes group up with other big bass. It's a guessing game that requires a lot of on the time fishing for them. Understanding basic bass behavior and determination is the key to catching them consistently.
Tom
CrankFate reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:12 AM, Gundog said:A basses brain is small...
meaning it only has a few functions. Reasoning isn't one of them. You can't teach them algebra or philosophy or even the fact that Tiger Wood's career in golf is pretty much over, he'll never win another major tournament and he should just retire and enjoy the billion dollars he has. But I digress. A fishes brain is for only eating and making little fishes. He has no inclination to learn not to hit certain lures or be educated in the ways of us anglers. And I think we are better for this.
Which is why you will sometimes see a big fish begin to follow a hot pink rubber stick with a curly tail, while wagging its tail happily following it before it takes a bite to see what it tastes like.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 2:12 AM, portiabrat said:I suggest looking at DNR surveys. Where I fish, it takes a bass 12+ years to get to five lbs. According to DNR surveys in the lake, less than 5% of bass reach this age, so big fish much more are rare than average-sized fish. A lot has to go right for a fish to reach that age.
My brother-in-law caught a large mouth that was over 7lbs on the Rainbow Flowage last September. That must have been one OLD fish.
I think I was watching a video from the Pond Boss the other week and he said that bass can get really big in northern states. Bass live longer in the north and all they need is a good food supply to grow to a really big size. Someone that is managing their own bass pond could grow double digit bass in the north.
geo g reply :
Regardless of what some bass fisherman want to believe, big bass are not smart, and not smarter then smaller ones. There are just a lot more smaller ones that out number the big old girls. Bass have small thinking portions of the brain, and rely on instincts programed through millions of years of survival. They react to stimuli in the environment and certain environmental conditions. They do have larger sections of brain that support detecting stimuli in the water. It's up to the fisherman to understand these conditions, and make a presentation that will trigger a bite. Bass are not smart, some fisherman just are smarter then others!
soflabasser reply :
First you need to fish in a area that has lots of big bass. Second you need to study the area you are fishing. Third you need to figure out what the bass want and give it to them. Fourth you need to have lots of patience and fish enough time to increase the chances of getting bit by a big bass. Fifth but not least, you need to accept that bass fishing is a hobby that you learn for a lifetime so continue repeating steps 1-4. With that said, I have lost count of the 8 pound or better largemouth bass I have caught throughout the years and I continue to catch both quality and quantity when other bass fishermen in my area of the state are complaining that the fish are not biting for whatever reason makes them feel better. As a bass fisherman you need to learn how to adapt, how to improvise, and how to overcome. Excuses do not give positive results but putting your time on the water wisely gives positive results.
Catt reply :
The recorded ages of trophy size bass range from 4-16 years old, with an average of 10 years old. TPWD
Brad Reid reply :
No doubt about the rarity factor.
Many other good points.
I'd only add that I think very large bass are often missed because they are relatively slow moving and slower reacting compared to frisky "teenaged" 2 to 3 pounders. Smaller bass just grab your bait before the big'un can get to it.
This might then explain why so many of them are caught in colder weather . . . I believe that is a fact. And, I also seem to recall that a common catching time of day is more in the slack time, like 1 PM, not in the early and later hours. Correct me if I have this wrong but I know I have at least read both of these statements.
So, if it is so, in the case of cold water, it could be large fat bass are more insulated and less affected by cold water, smaller fish are just slower acting and any youthful advantages they have are lessened at these times. And, if many DD bass are caught in the early afternoon, it might be that smaller bass, when the bite sort of is in a lull, have already filled up earlier, so less competition.
Brad
The Maestro reply :
I believe there are far more big bass in lakes that have healthy bass populations than it would seem based on how many are being caught. The reason I say this is because in the 10 years (100's of days) that I've been fishing my home lake there was 1 day when the fishing was SO far above average it was ridiculous. It seemed like everywhere I put my bait there was a fish. And big fish too. Keep in mind I'm in Canada so 5lbs is a big bass here. I caught a 4lb 14oz, a 4lb 12oz, a 3lb 12oz and lost one over 6lbs and one over 5lbs. + too many 1.5-2.5lbers to count. I've never had a day remotely close to this despite having another 5 years of experience on this body of water after this particular day. It showed me that there are indeed way more big bass out there than I used to think. They're just difficult to catch. I believe most of the big fish have brief feeding windows and are much more difficult to make bite outside of these times. And yes. I definitely believe they are far smarter than smaller bass based on my observations.
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 1:05 AM, A-Jay said:So this seemed to indicate to me that Big Bass might not necessarily be smarter per se, but do seem to make up a much smaller percentage of the total population.
I've always believed that genetics played a major part in determining the percentage of "big" bass in a body of water. Lake management is key to a productive trophy lake also. The U.S. Forest Service owns and manages one of my favorite lakes here in Oklahoma and in 1995 they drained this lake and removed the northern strain bass and restocked it with Florida strain fingerlings. They also added gizzard shad and bluegill for forage and within two years there were 3 lb bass being caught. Within ten years 5 lb + was becoming the norm and today a person has a better than average chance of landing a double digit. The Forest Service is constantly monitoring the population via electrofishing and DNA testing and as a result, many locals are breaking their PBs on an annual basis. I've found that the lake has spoiled me as it has gotten to the point where 7-8 lb catches no longer excite me as they once did. I have to agree with @A-Jay, "smarts" isn't as important as many believe; bass are predators. Genetics + population + management + growing season yields a good time on the water.
WRB reply :
Let's dispel some myths;
1. Big fat bass are slow and lazy. Fact: Big femal bass in the prime weight and age are the faster bass in the lake, nothing slow about these fish.
2. Big fat bass can't compete with smaller bass for prey. Fact: Big fat bass often eat small bass as prey.
3. Big fat bass populations are similar in numbers to average size bass. Fact:Big fat bass often make up less then 1% of the total bass population.
4. It's easy to detect a strike from a slow big fat bass in cold water. Fsct: Big fat bass have enormous size head and mouth that makes up about 1/3rd thier length and can engulf your lure inside it's mouth without you being able to detect the strike and eject it before you realize or if you realize a strike has occurred.
5. Northern strian LMB can grow to be the same size as Florida strain LMB. Fact: NLMB grow to be about 50% as heavy as FLMB in the same environmemt. FLMB are limited in range due to their cold water tolerance is poor.
The reason few truly big bass are caught is they become wary and keenly aware of everything in their environment. Anglers need to learn to hunt these special bass and trick them into striking artifical lures, not a easy task.
Big bass will group together to hunt some types of prey and if you are lucky to be there when feeding it's possible to catch several of them in a few hours.
Tom
Sam reply :
Uncle Homer Circle and Glen Lau made an interesting discovery while filming the Bigmouth and Bigmouth Forever series of videos.
They noticed that the larger ladies would back off or hide when they heard a trolling motor.
So I would say the big ladies were "conditioned" to back off, hide and avoided eating when they heard the trolling motor and therefore were harder to catch.
If you can find the Uncle Homer Circle and Glen Lau videos scoop them up. They are outstanding.
Glaucus reply :
I think there's a very fine line here. Bass are not smart. But time on the water has proven time and time again that bass can become conditioned (as Sam actually just said) in some sense.
CrankFate reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 8:53 AM, Brad Reid said:No doubt about the rarity factor.
Many other good points.
I'd only add that I think very large bass are often missed because they are relatively slow moving and slower reacting compared to frisky "teenaged" 2 to 3 pounders. Smaller bass just grab your bait before the big'un can get to it.
This might then explain why so many of them are caught in colder weather . . . I believe that is a fact. And, I also seem to recall that a common catching time of day is more in the slack time, like 1 PM, not in the early and later hours. Correct me if I have this wrong but I know I have at least read both of these statements.
So, if it is so, in the case of cold water, it could be large fat bass are more insulated and less affected by cold water, smaller fish are just slower acting and any youthful advantages they have are lessened at these times. And, if many DD bass are caught in the early afternoon, it might be that smaller bass, when the bite sort of is in a lull, have already filled up earlier, so less competition.
Brad
Good points.
Glaucus reply :
Bass being conditioned can clearly be seen in videos by The Fish Whisperer and Bamabass.
TFW has trained bass in a private pond to feed out of his hands and wait for him by the banks. He's trained them to track food that is thrown out to them. He will throw a shad and you watch as the massive wakes track the shad in the air and then the bass explode on it immediately.
Bamabass has conditioned his pet bass Moby. Moby knows when it's feeding time and behaves eerily like a dog when his owner is offering up treats. Bamabass also has 2 pet bass in a backyard pond who are trained the same.
The Maestro reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 10:19 AM, Glaucus said:Bass being conditioned can clearly be seen in videos by The Fish Whisperer and Bamabass.
TFW has trained bass in a private pond to feed out of his hands and wait for him by the banks. He's trained them to track food that is thrown out to them. He will throw a shad and you watch as the massive wakes track the shad in the air and then the bass explode on it immediately.
Bamabass has conditioned his pet bass Moby. Moby knows when it's feeding time and behaves eerily like a dog when his owner is offering up treats. Bamabass also has 2 pet bass in a backyard pond who are trained the same.
This type of behavior alludes to what I mentioned in my post above. These fish have become accustomed to feeding during brief windows. They've learned that sticking to these windows has kept them safe from exposure to predators while allowing them to conserve energy for growth.
I used to look up tournament results and it always amazed me how for most local (Ontario Canada) tournaments there would only be 1-2 fish over 5lbs caught (unless it was on big smallmouth water). When you do the math we're talking 70-90 boat fields, 2 anglers per boat each fishing for 8 hours and they only manage 1-2 over 5lbs! And these aren't you're average anglers. These are experinced guys who know the water, and have fast boats with every electronic and technological advantage.
Boomstick reply :
Big bass tend to move out from shallow cover into deeper and more open water but tend to be much more finicky and tend to feed on their own schedule. Finding a pattern of big bass is much harder than finding a pattern of smaller bass.
I recommend reading "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" by Bill Murphy if you're interested in catching big bass.
The Maestro reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:45 AM, WRB said:
The reason few truly big bass are caught is they become wary and keenly aware of everything in their environment. Anglers need to learn to hunt these special bass and trick them into striking artifical lures, not a easy task.
Tom
This is another big factor. Big bass have seen, interacted with and eaten the real thing everyday of their lives and we're trying to convince them that a piece of plastic is food. They're a top predator in their environment and will easily pick up on any negative cues or flaws in our presentation.
A-Jay reply :
I've read through this thread a couple of times now, and I plan to revisit it often as it continues to grow, (and I suspect it will - because its January). I certainly appreciate & respect the different opinions & views shared here.
Like so many threads & post on the BR forums, it is really interesting to learn how wildly different the ideas & options are on this subject. And what may be just as noteworthy, is how these conclusions may have been reached.
To the several anglers on this forum, who have decades of big bass fishing experience and who have recorded some amazing catches over the years, the fact that you are willing to share any of what you have worked so hard to learn & use effectively, is extremely generous. So Thank You.
My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.
The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.
Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.
The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'. They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn).
Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one.
It really is like a needle in a hay stack. But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.
And at least once a year, I get on a body of water that has way more big needles than most places.
I do much better there.
A-Jay
FCPhil reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:45 AM, WRB said:Let's dispel some myths;
1. Big fat bass are slow and lazy. Fact: Big femal bass in the prime weight and age are the faster bass in the lake, nothing slow about these fish.
2. Big fat bass can't compete with smaller bass for prey. Fact: Big fat bass often eat small bass as prey.
I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.
They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish.
Thoughts anyone?
Koz reply :
Obviously the different strains of bass make a difference as well as the forage and water conditions. And then there's where the bass falls in the food chain in that body of water.
For example, when a larger alligator moves in to one of our averaged size residential lagoons it can have a noticeable negative impact on the bass fishing in that lagoon. Suddenly, even that big bass is no longer the top predator. But if that same alligator moves on to one of our smaller lakes in those same communities there is no noticeable impact.
In our smaller lagoons the largest bass are usually 5-6 pounds, but in the small lake in that same community the largest bass are 10-12 pounds. While there may be other factors, the community does actively stock the larger lagoons and the small lake the biggest bass are only in the biggest body of water.
Catt reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:13 PM, A-Jay said:My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.
The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.
Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.
The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'. They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn).
Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one.
It really is like a needle in a hay stack. But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.
Very well said ????
Mobasser reply :
Big bass are caught less because they spend the majority of their time in places where the average angler doesn't fish. Also, in most bodies of water, they make up a very small % of the bass population. They've been looked at as an impossible quarry by many fisherman. The fact is their not impossible to pursue. If you look at folks who target big bass, they do the homework, perfect their baits and presentations, and study and learn the habits of big bass. I think for some, it's kind of a lonely pursuit. It takes time and a determined dedication. They may be the fisherman who come in with nothing, while others catch strings of smaller bass. But, when they score- all the work has paid off for them. It's hard, to say the least.
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:35 PM, FCPhil said:I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.
They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish.
Thoughts anyone?
Thought: Nonsense.
Catt reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 12:35 PM, FCPhil said:I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.
They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish.
Thoughts anyone?
Given the choice of a 4" shad 10 feet away and a 8" shad 20 yards away the bass will choose the closest everytime!
Why?
The biological fact; minimum output maximum intake!
Big bass will ambush it's prey more often rather than chase it down!
scaleface reply :
If bright colored clothing alert's carp of your presence and it does then why not bass ?
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:11 PM, scaleface said:If bright colored clothing alert's carp of your presence and it does then why not bass ?
I dunno, why do cats chase laser pointers and sloths don't?
scaleface reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:28 PM, reason said:I dunno, why do cats chase laser pointers and sloths don't?
Sloths dont chase laser pointers ? i did not know that .
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:30 PM, scaleface said:Sloths dont chase laser pointers ? i did not know that .
I'm gonna take my uv epoxy curing light down to Costa Rica, and see if they like that.... 
I/MBasser reply :
There was a great video linked on the front page a few months ago. It was of a biologist who takes care of public and private ponds/lakes. He discusses the odds of a bass ever reaching 10#s. He also discussed bass intelligence and I think he said a bass memory will only last 15 minutes or so. IMO, I think they are simply rare.
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 10:20 PM, I/MBasser said:He discusses the odds of a bass ever reaching 10#s
The odds of a specific fish reaching maturity, not to mention trophy or record size is indeed daunting. However given enough recruitment, the odds of non specific individuals in a population reaching these same sizes, while still long, aren't nearly as unlikely. Kind of like the odds of you winning the Power Ball, versus "someone" winning the Power Ball.
Mobasser reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:06 PM, Catt said:
Given the choice of a 4" shad 10 feet away and a 8" shad 20 yards away the bass will choose the closest everytime!
Why?
The biological fact; minimum output maximum intake!
Big bass will ambush it's prey more often rather than chase it down!
This is 100% correct. Big bass are a predator! Predators of all kinds always take the fastest, easiest way to get their food. They won't work for it if they don't have to
FCPhil reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:06 PM, Catt said:
Given the choice of a 4" shad 10 feet away and a 8" shad 20 yards away the bass will choose the closest everytime!
Why?
The biological fact; minimum output maximum intake!
Big bass will ambush it's prey more often rather than chase it down!
I agree. What I was saying is a 1 pound bass may not even be capable of eating the shad next to it, but when it’s 3 pounds it can. I’m just saying it may be easier for a large bass to eat than a smaller bass because there are more fish it is capable of eating, and it may be harder for prey to escape it. And this might lead to the larger bass being less desperate for food and less inclined to eat a lure.
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 11:08 PM, FCPhil said:I agree. What I was saying is a 1 pound bass may not even be capable of eating the shad next to it, but when it’s 3 pounds it can. I’m just saying it may be easier for a large bass to eat than a smaller bass because there are more fish it is capable of eating, and it may be harder for prey to escape it. And this might lead to the larger bass being less desperate for food and less inclined to eat a lure.
Yes, but this assumes that there isn't an ample supply of smaller fish and other tid bits for smaller fish to eat, and usually this isn't the case.
Choporoz reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:45 AM, WRB said:Let's dispel some myths;
4. It's easy to detect a strike from a slow big fat bass in cold water. Fsct: Big fat bass have enormous size head and mouth that makes up about 1/3rd thier length and can engulf your lure inside it's mouth without you being able to detect the strike and eject it before you realize or if you realize a strike has occurred.
Tom
I think this may well be a significant point, as relates to numbers caught.
And even if it isn't....I get to add another excuse to my quiver:)
OkobojiEagle reply :
Since this board is internet based which allows me to assert without documentation... I'll suggest that Mrs. Bass' sensory receptors grow in size and number as she grows, increasing her awareness of her surroundings. This would alert her more keenly to negative cues in her nearby environment. A flawless presentation of artificial bait (or using live bait, heaven forbid) may be more necessary to catch a larger bass than a smaller bass.
Forgive me for not annotating this, but I don't want to re-read the volumes on my bookshelves. I think it may have come from Keith Jones' manuscript.
oe
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 12:04 AM, OkobojiEagle said:I'll suggest that Mrs. Bass' sensory receptors grow in size and number as she grows, increasing her awareness of her surroundings. This would alert her more keenly to negative cues in her nearby environment.
So the fat guy with the hearing aid and bifocals is more keenly aware of his surroundings than the 8 year old bouncing off the walls because he's 5 times his size?
The Maestro reply :
I can't remember where I read it but someone was saying there's a video out there of a big bass rejecting live bait. I don't remember what the bait was (possibly a craw). Supposedly it shows the bass closely inspecting the bait and then completely ignoring it even though it was just a few feet away. Then once it was taken off the hook and placed back in the same spot, the fish pounced on it instantly.
I've experienced something similar with a bass just under 5lbs that was living on a deep tree. It gave itself away when it followed my jig right to the boat. I tried every presentation I could think of over a 3 week span. Finally I bought a couple dozen nice size minnows. I could see the fish. I dropped one close to where it hung out. I could see the fish casually checked it out and turned away from it. It then chilled for a few seconds before violently striking it but I don't think it took it completely because she wasn't there on the hookset. Long story short I burned through all my minnows and finally caught it on my last one when I made a hail Mary cast to the tree about 20 yards beside the main tree it lived on.
On 1/30/2019 at 12:15 AM, reason said:So the fat guy with the hearing aid and bifocals is more keenly aware of his surroundings than the 8 year old bouncing off the walls because he's 5 times his size?
This is a completely useless analogy.
Don51 reply :
They know a thing or two because they've seen a thing or two! ????
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 12:24 AM, Don51 said:They know a thing or two because they've seen a thing or two! ????
Better protected from mayhem....
bagofdonuts reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 12:15 AM, reason said:So the fat guy with the hearing aid and bifocals is more keenly aware of his surroundings than the 8 year old bouncing off the walls because he's 5 times his size?
I think in the bass world the "fat guy with a hearing aid and bifocals" would soon parish.
I know one thing i learned early on while wading clear creaks with my brother. that if we wanted to catch the big bass in the creek we had to be very stealthy. The only way in these creeks to catch the bigger bass was to spot and stalk them.
one of us would walk the high bank and spot a big fish, relay the info to the one wading. he would then make as long a cast as you could to the fish. if the big fish didn't detect you, they would very aggressively strike the little jig and pig. if you blew the stalk , the cast, or weren't ready for the violent strike, she was gone.
you could catch dinks all day long slopping through the creek, the big ones took a very different approach.
i don't know about smart, but more aware, you bet.
Brad Reid reply :
I think Jim is correct if he means "length" and bass speed correlations. Sort of similar to a longer kayak moving generally faster than a shorter one. When you see really fast moving fish species, they look more like barracudas than groupers: long and sleek.
But, on a relative size basis where speed is measured in units of body length, small is faster.
And, really big bass begin adding disproportionate girth to length at a certain point, especially big female largemouth bass. Those huge heads? Hardly shaped for cutting through water fast either. The general body shape changes dramatically, the length to girth ratios are lower. Big girls look less "barracuda" shaped. They lose their figures so to speak. Old fish, like all other older animals, are less energetic.
Here is just a quip from a scientific source (My quotation marks and bold print.):
"On the other hand, when relative swim speeds (body lengths per time) are studied for some species the relationship between length and speed is reversed. Smaller fish generally have higher relative swim speeds than larger fish; but this relationship can be affected by temperature. For example, smaller largemouth bass were found to have higher relative prolonged swimming speeds than larger fish of this species when temperatures were near their physiological optimum, but when temperatures were lower this relationship was not apparent (Beamish 1970). Both biological processes (such as, muscle and fin size, or respiration) and the hydrodynamic properties (such as various components of drag) underlie the relationship between fish swim speed and size. Informative discussions of these topics can be found in Beamish (1978), Grey (1998), Videler (1993), and Webb (1975, 1977, 1994)."
Brad
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 2:08 AM, Brad Reid said:But, on a relative size basis where speed is measured in units of body length, small is faster.
What's the word I'm looking for, oh yeah, Wrong.
Bigger fish are faster than smaller fish (this applies to most other animals as well). Smaller fish appear faster because they accelerate faster and can be more nimble.
A-Jay reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 1:20 AM, bagofdonuts said:I think in the bass world the "fat guy with a hearing aid and bifocals" would soon parish.
Perhaps -
However other than being blind in one eye - both these Fat Old Ladies seemed pretty healthy to me. 
A-Jay
WRB reply :
Couple of things to clarify, you can't put any living animal into a one size fits all statement. Bass are individuals when they become adult size and behave as individuals. Trying to predict how individual big bass will behave is guess work outside of the spawn cycle. Black bass, the fish we call bass, have 8 different species the 3 most common are Largemouth, Smallmouth and Spotted bass. We know from records the both Spotted and Smallmouth grow about the same maximum weight, under 12 pounds. Largemouth bass have 2 species; Northern and Florida strains. The largest Northern strain is under 17 lbs, the largest Florida is over 25 lbs.
When the majority of anglers talk about bass it's a Northern strain largemouth bass.
Oldest Smallmouth was 26 years and oldest Largemouth was 19 years Northern caught in Montana. I don't know how old FLMB get, about 16 years from the records and no information on the age of Spotted bass?
Tom
The Maestro reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 3:28 AM, A-Jay said:Perhaps -
However other than being blind in one eye - both these Fat Old Ladies seemed pretty healthy to me.
A-Jay
Insane. How much did they weigh? Baits/techniques? What was the fight like with the smallie?
A-Jay reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 3:54 AM, The Maestro said:Insane. How much did they weigh? Baits/techniques? What was the fight like with the smallie?
Thanks ~
That Green Bass weighted 10-15.
She ate a 1 oz football jig with a 10 inch Junebug Bullworm trailer off the bottom on a hump in 30 ft.
The Brown Bass is my PB at 7-5.
She ate a spinnerbait and until I saw her, I thought she was a Big Pike.
You can watch the last portion of the fight, the net job and my reaction here . . .
A-Jay
The Maestro reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 4:09 AM, A-Jay said:Thanks ~
That Green Bass weighted 10-15.
She ate a 1 oz football jig with a 10 inch Junebug Bullworm trailer off the bottom on a hump in 30 ft.
The Brown Bass is my PB at 7-5.
She ate a spinnerbait and until I saw her, I thought she was a Big Pike.
You can watch the last portion of the fight, the net job and my reaction here . . .
A-Jay
That smallie is an absolute unit! Is the largemouth a northern? Are you prouder of one or the other? I'll watch the video later. Thanks for posting.
A-Jay reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 4:34 AM, The Maestro said:That smallie is an absolute unit! Is the largemouth a northern? Are you prouder of one or the other? I'll watch the video later. Thanks for posting.
The Green Bass came from Lake Baccarac in Mexico year before last.
Clearly every 10 lb largemouth is a fantastic fish - however my PB is an 11-11 so . . . . . .
But that smallie was a Freak fish of a life time for me . . .
A-Jay
WRB reply :
Baccarac was stocked with Florida strain LMB back in the 80's.
Beautiful photos of both bass in good condition
.
Tom
BassWhole! reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 4:09 AM, A-Jay said:Thanks ~
That Green Bass weighted 10-15.
She ate a 1 oz football jig with a 10 inch Junebug Bullworm trailer off the bottom on a hump in 30 ft.
The Brown Bass is my PB at 7-5.
She ate a spinnerbait and until I saw her, I thought she was a Big Pike.
You can watch the last portion of the fight, the net job and my reaction here . . .
A-Jay
I want you to adopt me.
bagofdonuts reply :
Hmmm.....both those big bass ate big baits. Maybe another reason big bass are caught less frequently.
gimruis reply :
Its also possible that big or bigger bass eat bigger meals less frequently, as compared to smaller bass eating smaller meals more frequently. I'm not saying a big bass won't eat a small meal, but eating a big meal that is the equivalent of 10 small meals saves a lot of energy. Just a thought.
slonezp reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 5:04 AM, geo g said:Regardless of what some bass fisherman want to believe, big bass are not smart, and not smarter then smaller ones. There are just a lot more smaller ones that out number the big old girls. Bass have small thinking portions of the brain, and rely on instincts programed through millions of years of survival. They react to stimuli in the environment and certain environmental conditions. They do have larger sections of brain that support detecting stimuli in the water. It's up to the fisherman to understand these conditions, and make a presentation that will trigger a bite. Bass are not smart, some fisherman just are smarter then others!
On 1/29/2019 at 11:59 AM, The Maestro said:This is another big factor. Big bass have seen, interacted with and eaten the real thing everyday of their lives and we're trying to convince them that a piece of plastic is food. They're a top predator in their environment and will easily pick up on any negative cues or flaws in our presentation.
On 1/29/2019 at 12:13 PM, A-Jay said:I've read through this thread a couple of times now, and I plan to revisit it often as it continues to grow, (and I suspect it will - because its January). I certainly appreciate & respect the different opinions & views shared here.
Like so many threads & post on the BR forums, it is really interesting to learn how wildly different the ideas & options are on this subject. And what may be just as noteworthy, is how these conclusions may have been reached.
To the several anglers on this forum, who have decades of big bass fishing experience and who have recorded some amazing catches over the years, the fact that you are willing to share any of what you have worked so hard to learn & use effectively, is extremely generous. So Thank You.
My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.
The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.
Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.
The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'. They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn).
Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one.
It really is like a needle in a hay stack. But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.
And at least once a year, I get on a body of water that has way more big needles than most places.
I do much better there.
A-Jay
On 1/30/2019 at 12:04 AM, OkobojiEagle said:Since this board is internet based which allows me to assert without documentation... I'll suggest that Mrs. Bass' sensory receptors grow in size and number as she grows, increasing her awareness of her surroundings. This would alert her more keenly to negative cues in her nearby environment. A flawless presentation of artificial bait (or using live bait, heaven forbid) may be more necessary to catch a larger bass than a smaller bass.
Forgive me for not annotating this, but I don't want to re-read the volumes on my bookshelves. I think it may have come from Keith Jones' manuscript.
oe
There are less big bass than small bass because of a poor healthcare system. Even though they have spent their entire lives in school, not one of them has become a doctor.....
So lets expound on what some of you touched upon. The way a fish responds to its environment. Aside from seasonal migrations, which I believe causes fish to "drop their guard", and aside from "angler relocation", I believe most fish are resident fish. Meaning, they will spend their time in a certain area, as long as the proper conditions exist, be it a few days, a few weeks, or a few months. Let's say proper conditions are food, shelter, and oxygen. Fish become familiar with their surroundings. They know where the deep water is. They know where the structure is. They become familiar with cover as it is ever changing.
Now, add external stimuli to the residence. One of a few things will happen.
1. The fish will become curious. It will investigate and determine if the stimuli is good or bad. It's my belief that this is more prevalent with juvenile fish, as it is with any animal, as part of the learning process.
2. The fish will become weary. Or, curious with a negative connotation.
3. The fish will become scared or "spooked"
4. The fish will become aggressive. It will attack out of fear, aggression, hunger.
5. The fish will ignore the stimuli because they just don't give a crap. It is my belief that this is more prevalent with mature (big) fish. They've seen it all. They've done it all. There's no more proving themselves. They eat when they want to eat. They fight when they want to fight. They screw when they want to screw.
They are no different than any other animal when it comes to their environment.
It's all about being at the right place at the right time.
Frog Turds reply :
sure big baits typically can & will catch big fish and weed out most smaller dinkers...but giants can also be caught on regular ol conventional baits...both my 7.56# Northern Strain PB's from Minnesota = one on a 1/2oz jig, the other off a 1/2oz Chatterbait...
thus far with admitting not a ton experience throwing big baits yet...but last season I threw big rats & glides etc...sure most I caught were decent fish, some smaller ones also but the biggest largie that i weighed up was 4 something pounds (exclude the 10# pike on a rat)
conventional baits caught more 4, 5, 6 & one over 7.5# than the big baits...I also take into consideration that conventional baits get more water time...I'll see how my results are after next season as i'll be giving big baits more focus...maybe i'll finally get that 8#er that doesnt have teeth on a big bait...
with that said, I now throw big baits for 2 reasons, one because the obvious targeting big fish as I do no matter...the other reason is simply its fun as hell catching fish on big baits and has provided something different to put in the mix to spice things up/change of pace...
my answer to "smart or rare", more rare for my waters with some conditioned per experiences...but there are more 7#+ in my waters than people may believe...but the very upper end 1% class here are also gettin towards the end of their life span and drop off...also rarer for the fact it takes x amount of factors within a fishes life/genetics with living within natures rules to make it to that size (excluding the human element taking out big fish)
smarter is subjective, if a particular fish had an experience and learned/conditioned, than that individual may be smarter possibly and less catchable than the next but i would never say not catchable...
after I caught the same 6#er 6 days apart on exact same bait and trailer in the exact same spot...that particular fish wasnt what I call smart or learned, surprised it made it to that size which is a giant for here...but maybe that was just the bait to make it happen and maybe that fish would never be caught on some other specific bait if i had tossed it, never know...but also proves that catch & release works 
WRB reply :
If anyone looks at my profile I listed my top 5 bass all caught on a 7/16 oz hair jig with pork rind trailer, average size bass lure. All those bass were caught during pre spawn, in SoCal that is late Jan to early March, in 15' to 20' of water with rock structure and sparse cover using 10 and 12 lb mono line. None of that fits what the average bass angers believe.
Every one of those giant bass listed were with other giant bass, they were not loners.
I knew the bass were in the area before catching them, I rarely catch big bass fishing blindly. I study these bass and spend long hours trying to catch them.
Bass don't have the ability to get angry or have any other human traits regarding temper. Bass do have the ability to detect harm but without fear.
Bass may have the brain size of a BB as yearlings and their brain grows as the bass grows. What is stored in their brain is unknown but the big bass have developed instincts over time by trail and error what harms them and what doesn't, then they aviod what is harmful. There are no very aggressive giant bass, those bass didn't survive.
Tom
slonezp reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 9:43 AM, WRB said:If anyone looks at my profile I listed my top 5 bass all caught on a 7/16 oz hair jig with pork rind trailer, average size bass lure. All those bass were caught during pre spawn, in SoCal that is late Jan to early March, in 15' to 20' of water with rock structure and sparse cover using 10 and 12 lb mono line. None of that fits what the average bass angers believe.
Every one of those giant bass listed were with other giant bass, they were not loners.
I knew the bass were in the area before catching them, I rarely catch big bass fishing blindly. I study these bass and spend long hours trying to catch them.
Bass don't have the ability to get angry or have any other human traits regarding temper. Bass do have the ability to detect harm but without fear.
Bass may have the brain size of a BB as yearlings and their brain grows as the bass grows. What is stored in their brain is unknown but the big bass have developed instincts over time by trail and error what harms them and what doesn't, then they aviod what is harmful. There are no very aggressive giant bass, those bass didn't survive.
Tom
Please explain. Yes, bass don't have feelings. They can sense a threat. Is that not fear?
WRB reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 9:55 AM, slonezp said:Please explain. Yes, bass don't have feelings. They can sense a threat. Is that not fear?
Fear is an emotion only higher primates have. Territorial protection and survival instincts they have, like every animal.
Tom
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 1:54 AM, WRB said:Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass
I've been looking for my copy of this book ever since I read your reply and realized that I had loaned it to my brother. I need to get it back and read it again, it was a good read. I think it was in Bill's book where he made mention of the particular moon phase(s) where he caught the majority of his big bass. If you have your copy on hand, could you check it and see if he did indeed mention this in his book?
WRB reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 5:26 AM, Harold Scoggins said:I've been looking for my copy of this book ever since I read your reply and realized that I had loaned it to my brother. I need to get it back and read it again, it was a good read. I think it was in Bill's book where he made mention of the particular moon phase(s) where he caught the majority of his big bass. If you have your copy on hand, could you check it and see if he did indeed mention this in his book?
Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar. Will take a look and reply.
Tom
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 5:38 AM, WRB said:Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar.
I always put on my mood ring and power crystal before feeding my pet rock, and falling asleep to my lava lamp, I just wish my bead curtain wasn't so noisy and the roof on the VW bus didn't leak. Where did I put my easy wider?.....
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 5:48 AM, reason said:I always put on my mood ring and power crystal before feeding my pet rock, and falling asleep to my lava lamp, I just wish my bead curtain wasn't so noisy and the roof on the VW bus didn't leak. Where did I put my easy wider?.....
Careful, you're showing your age with the bead curtain.
I've never planned my fishing around the moon phases, when I want to go fishing, I go. I do, however, remember Murphy mentioning how he kept records spanning years and how he compared his largest bass with particular moon phases and that he had made some interesting observations involving the big bass he had caught over the years. I wish I had my copy of that book!
WRB reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 5:38 AM, WRB said:Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar. Will take a look and reply.
Tom
In Pursuit of Giant Bass, moon phases starts on page 88 to 94, 6 pages.
For numbers Murphy usually likes 2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, for big fish the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.
If you want the 6 pages I can scan them and email.
Tom
rtwvumtneer6 reply :
On 1/29/2019 at 9:45 AM, WRB said:4. It's easy to detect a strike from a slow big fat bass in cold water. Fsct: Big fat bass have enormous size head and mouth that makes up about 1/3rd thier length and can engulf your lure inside it's mouth without you being able to detect the strike and eject it before you realize or if you realize a strike has occurred.
I've had a lot of discussions with my buddy about this, particular regarding presentations with bottom contact. We both noticed that the majority of our "bigger" fish, relative to our area, have either been a small tick, line-watching or we picked up and felt weight. On the other hand, the smaller bass, say 1-2 lbs often eat the presentation like it's their last meal.
My other quick thought is on lure size. I know they eat bluegill on my reservoir, and there are lots of them. Yet, I throw a 1.5 sqaure bill that's a fraction of the size of the real thing. Hmm....
Lots of really good stuff here. Fun read while I'm in the single digits and colder outside.
OkobojiEagle reply :
Perhaps it is not the fish that are affected by the lunar cycle, but the fisherman...
oe
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 9:26 AM, OkobojiEagle said:Perhaps it is not the fish that are affected by the lunar cycle, but the fisherman...
oe
That's just lunacy!...
WRB reply :
There is factual data from tracking studies to support bass location during the lunar cycles. Most anglers recognize that active feeding bass are more likely to be caught then inactive suspended bass. Murphy includes in his book on page 88 a chart showing bass locations during lunar cycles. Both 1/4 & 3/4 moon phase the majority of bass are suspended, the full moon the majority are active near structure, the new moon the most bass are active near structure and some are suspended deeper then the 1/4 & 3/4 phase.
You can pooh pooh it or ignor it or as I do accept it and take advantage, which I did the past 45+ years catching big bass.
Tom
A-Jay reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 10:18 AM, WRB said:There is factual data from tracking studies to support bass location during the lunar cycles. Most anglers recognize that active feeding bass are more like to be caught then inactive suspended bass. Murphy includes in his book on page 88 a chart showing bass locations during lunar cycles. Both 1/4 & 3/4 moon phase the majority of bass are suspended, the full moon the majority are active near structure, the new moon the most bass are active near structure and some are suspended deeper then the 1/4 & 3/4 phase.
You can pooh pooh it or ignor it or as I do accept it and take advantage, which I did the past 45+ years catching big bass.
Tom
X2 ~ !
Three days before, day of and three days after, the October 2018 Full Moon.
Two Guys ~ 53 bass over 7 lbs.
We're both believers
A-Jay
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 8:57 AM, WRB said:2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.
Count me in. This is gospel in most salt water circles. 3 of my 5 largest striped bass,redfish, and wahoo have come in this period as have many other big fish and memorable days.
Catt reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 10:47 AM, A-Jay said:X2 ~ !
Three days before, day of and three days after, the October 2018 Full Moon.
Two Guys ~ 53 bass over 7 lbs.
We're both believers
A-Jay
What were the weather conditions during those seven days?
Could weather conditions have been "the" factor as much as moon phase or even more?
A-Jay reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 9:31 PM, Catt said:
What were the weather conditions during those seven days?
Could weather conditions have been "the" factor as much as moon phase or even more?
I'll go with - it's always a factor in some way.
Pressure dropped first two - clouds & wind.
Rest of the week was stable - sun & fun.
????
A-Jay
Catt reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 9:35 PM, A-Jay said:I'll go with - it's always a factor in some way.
Pressure dropped first two - clouds & wind.
Rest of the week was stable - sun & fun.
????
A-Jay
So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?
WRB reply :
Weather is big factor but you can't predict it months in advance.
For me overcast light rain is perfect as it tends to extend the active feeding periods and in my small lakes reduce boat traffic.
The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.
Tom
A-Jay reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 10:50 PM, Catt said:
So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?
On 2/1/2019 at 11:03 PM, WRB said:Weather is big factor but you can't predict it months in advance.
For me overcast light rain is perfect as it tends to extend the active feeding periods and in my small lakes reduce boat traffic.
The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.
Tom
My version is the moon probably got the big girls up, moving & thinking about feeding.
Then 'the weather' may have provided very favorable feeding opportunities.
It really was - The Perfect Storm.
#dreamweek
A-Jay
Catt reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 11:03 PM, WRB said:The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.
Tom
Round here bass are active during pre-spawn regardless of moon phase!
On 2/1/2019 at 11:11 PM, A-Jay said:The Perfect Storm
So what made it "perfect"?
A-Jay reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 11:14 PM, Catt said:
Round here bass are active during pre-spawn regardless of moon phase!
So what made it "perfect"?
That's easy . . .
We were in the right place, at the right time, & doing the right thing; Repeatedly.
While we didn't catch huge numbers - perhaps 20- 30 fish a day.
However, the average bass was like nothing I've ever seen and probably will never experience again.
I good with that.
A-Jay
The Maestro reply :
On 1/30/2019 at 12:21 AM, The Maestro said:
Edited by The Maestro
slonezp reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 10:50 PM, Catt said:
So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?
That's a question for Miss Cleo
Ratherbfishing reply :
I'd have to say "both". They are more rare but wouldn't attain their size without also being a little smarter than the average bass.
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 1:03 AM, slonezp said:That's a question for Miss Cleo
Or the Magic 8 ball...
"Reply hazy, ask again"
WRB reply :
In the animal world that we as humans belong in intelligence varies between species and individuals within each specie. Some humans are bone heads with an IQ equal to their age and some are brilliant, most fall somewhere inbetween. Every specie has it's dumb as dirt and brilliant individuals. A good example Alex the African Grey parrot was a brilliant bird. Black bass are not any different in the animal world, some we consider stupid others we deem brilliant, usually those we can't catch. Size has nothing to do with IQ, in the animal world, it has a lot to do with survival.
Are big bass smarter then small bass?, not necessarly but they are rulers of their jungle.
Tom
The Maestro reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 1:52 AM, WRB said:In the animal world that we as humans belong in intelligence varies between species and individuals within each specie. Some humans are bone heads with an IQ equal to their age and some are brilliant, most fall somewhere inbetween. Every specie has it's dumb as dirt and brilliant individuals. A good example Alex the African Grey patriot was a brilliant bird. Black bass are not any different in the animal world, some we consider stupid others we deem brilliant, usually those we can't catch. Size has nothing to do with IQ, in the animal world, it has a lot to do with survival.
Are big bass smarter then small bass?, not necessarly but they are rulers of their jungle.
Tom
Bass are known to be a "smart" fish as far as fish go. Are they solving mathematical equations or composing symphonies? No. But I believe most anglers don't give them enough credit either. It also stands to reason that the big ones likely had some competitive advantage (possibly including above average "intelligence".) This, combined with "experience" makes them a formidable adversary.
soflabasser reply :
5 pages in 5 days...must be very cold up north! Best way to catch a big bass is to fish for big bass. Use techniques known for big bass and fish for big bass in areas known to have them. It is the weekend now so it would be best to go fishing and fish for big bass than just read about them.
J Francho reply :
Keep it civil guys. Off topic posts removed.
David Moore reply :
The very big bass are a mix of both. They have been around much longer and very few fish get to be very big at all. The big girls have seen every lure out there. They also do not get that huge by accident. For a perspective, they have to avoid being caught and harvested by anglers, avoid being eaten by other fish, live long enough to grow, avoid animals like birds, and a whole lot of different things.
schplurg reply :
On 1/28/2019 at 11:55 PM, CrankFate said:If natural selection actually occurs, we should all practice catch and release, so all the stupid fish that eat plastic and rubber with metal on it multiply. If we kill all the dumb ones, then we’ll be left with fish that are smarter, have better eyesight, sense of vibration and everything else that makes them harder to catch.
Natural selection actually occurs.
Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.
TnRiver46 reply :
On 2/4/2019 at 1:01 PM, schplurg said:
Natural selection actually occurs.
Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.
My buddy put a go pro in a smallmouth nest once and walked away for half an hour. Pretty interesting footage, the fish was nosing into the camera several times
Catt reply :
Some of y'all need to read the DNA research by Texas Parks & Wildlife.
Not every bass born is capable of attaining 10 lbs plus regardless of diet. So yes that means they are "rare" but through aggressive stocking that percentage of rarity can be changed.
The only way a bass can "learn" to avoid certain lures is not by simply seeing them but by actually biting them!
Look at all the videos showing bass being conditioned to respond to stimuli. They only respond after being presented with the stimuli on numerous occasions.
Do y'all really think you have put every lure in front of a bass in wild often enough for it to "learn" every lure?
CrankFate reply :
On 2/4/2019 at 1:01 PM, schplurg said:
Natural selection actually occurs.
Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.
That would be great, if you do please post the video!
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 2/1/2019 at 8:57 AM, WRB said:In Pursuit of Giant Bass, moon phases starts on page 88 to 94, 6 pages.
For numbers Murphy usually likes 2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, for big fish the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.
If you want the 6 pages I can scan them and email.
Tom
Got my copy back yesterday. It was page 90 that caught my attention, specifically where he talks about the 3/4 waxing/waning phase.
Now, when I get my lava lamp fixed, I'll pull out my journals and compare.
J Francho reply :
I think you'd want to factor in water clarity, depth, and cloud cover into account when talking about the moon.
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