Trokar flipping hook 2024
TxHawgs reply :
I picked up some Trokar flipping hooks and it looks like there's no room to snell these. Anyone else using them? If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio?
Catt reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 5:46 PM, TxHawgs said:If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio?
Absolutely not!
I quit snelling my hooks cause I saw no increase in hookup ratio!
ErikmonBillsfon reply :
Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP
Oklahoma Mike reply :
The Trokar "Monster" hook? There should be plenty of room there for tying a snell knot between the bait-keeper and the eye. If not, can you post a pic of the hook you're using?
I disagree with Catt - I do believe that using a snell knot here will improve your hookup ratio.
Mosster47 reply :
There is plenty of room and a Snell will increase your hookup ratio, it's simple physics.
TxHawgs reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 8:06 PM, Oklahoma Mike said:The Trokar "Monster" hook? There should be plenty of room there for tying a snell knot between the bait-keeper and the eye. If not, can you post a pic of the hook you're using?
I disagree with Catt - I do believe that using a snell knot here will improve your
gardnerjigman reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 7:53 PM, ErikmonBillsfon said:Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP
I don't like the Trokar for flipping because they are too sharp. They pull through on water willows and other thick stuff and snag up. Hack attack for me.
TxHawgs reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 8:39 PM, gardnerjigman said:I don't like the Trokar for flipping because they are too sharp. They pull through on water willows and other thick stuff and snag up. Hack attack for me.
I have had these for a while in one of my terminal boxes. I must have a 100 of em between the 4 and 5/0. So i either want to use them or sell them. These Mustads are comin tomorrow, they look like what I will be sticking with, this and the monster 3x hook they make.
Catt reply :
The selling point of using a snelled knot is the hook will lever or pivot in the bass's mouth on hook set.
Do y'all actually believe your setting hook hard enough to cause this to take place in 4, 5, 6 lb or larger bass's mouth?
It is also stated you'll have the hook penetrate the roof of the bass's mouth with a snelled hook, I do that now with a Palomar knot.
I really don't like Trokar flipping hooks because the plastic keeper tears up the lure.
Oklahoma Mike reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 8:38 PM, TxHawgs said:
There is room there for your snell knot. It all happens between the eye and the top of the bait-keeper.
Montanaro reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 8:58 PM, Catt said:The selling point of using a snelled knot is the hook will lever or pivot in the bass's mouth on hook set.
Do y'all actually believe your setting hook hard enough to cause this to take place in 4, 5, 6 lb or larger bass's mouth?
It is also stated you'll have the hook penetrate the roof of the bass's mouth with a snelled hook, I do that now with a Palomar knot.
I really don't like Trokar flipping hooks because the plastic keeper tears up the lure.
A small weight is enough to get the hook to pivot.
And if it doesnt in one instance you have same hook up chance as any other knot. Ive hooked many bass through roof of mouth with snell knot that were hooked in corner of mouth with SDJ.
Catt reply :
Think about this for a minute!
Close your mouth & tell yourself how much distance there is from the roof of your mouth to your tongue.
Now imagine a 5-6# bass just inhaled your lure thinking it's food. Do you think she will lightly clamp down on it or will she clamp down with enough force to ensure it will not escape?
Do ya really believe your lure is gonna pivot in that bass's mouth?
The things nonbelievers have to believe in order to remain nonbelievers amazes me!
Tim Kelly reply :
I don't believe the snelling thing either, also I don't like the bait pivoting when you're jigging it up and down, much rather have the weight pegged with a peg-it a couple of thou away from the bait as I found that kept the bait from being bashed by the weight, so it lasts longer, and the the whole bait stays streamlined. Works in my mind, the snelled bobber stop version works for others, so I don't believe it makes any practical differences, so fish however your comfortable!
RichF reply :
Been using the Palomar for years with zero problems. The snell is just a pain to get it perfect and I'm not "sold" on its effect enough to take the time to use it.
TxHawgs reply :
I did read that the Mustads I ordered can be snelled. So I will try both knots Palomar and Snell and see if there's a difference for me. I have some Havoc craw fatty's and Pit boss's but ordered some D bombs finally and can't wait to pitch those this Thursday.
Oklahoma Mike reply :
^^^Just wanted to add a couple more to the many experts already on this thread 
Mike L reply :
Been useing the 4/0 or 5/0 TK 130 with a snell for punching matt's for a few years now and really don't have a problem with tying the knot or hook up's.
When I do miss a fish, I really can't attribute it to either one. I just blame myself for not paying closer attention. Maybe I need to pay closer attention to the actual reason.
Mike
fissure_man reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 10:07 PM, Catt said:Think about this for a minute!
Close your mouth & tell yourself how much distance there is from the roof of your mouth to your tongue.
Now imagine a 5-6# bass just inhaled your lure thinking it's food. Do you think she will lightly clamp down on it or will she clamp down with enough force to ensure it will not escape?
Do ya really believe your lure is gonna pivot in that bass's mouth?
The things nonbelievers have to believe in order to remain nonbelievers amazes me!
If this applied to every hook set, no one would ever miss a fish!
Obviously there are occasions where a sharp hook point manages to escape the bass' mouth without hitting any meat. That tells me there was at least a little space around it. Perhaps a bit of pivot action would have put that hook point in a better position to hook up. We're not talking about prying the bass' mouth open, just closing the gap if a bit of "space" does appear. That space could come from the bass opening its mouth when it decides not to swallow 1.5 oz + plastic, or when that same big weight is popped violently out of its mouth.
There are a lot of great flippers that swear by the pivot; and I don't think any of them have a knot sponsor 
At best, the improvement is small. But the downsides are miniscule - the snell is plenty strong and it's a cinch to tie ( )
RyneB reply :
I have never had a problem with room to snell a knot with a trokar flipping hook
Catt reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 8:10 AM, fissure_man said:There are a lot of great flippers that swear by the pivot; and I don't think any of them have a knot sponsor
At best, the improvement is small. (
There are many more great flippers who do not use it than ones that do!
If the improvement is small why spend the additional time required to tie it?
I can tie a Palomar knot by the light of a full Moon!
Well with the aid of my reading glasses
WRB reply :
Most anglers using this type of hook rig them for punching using pegged heavy bullet weights with 25 lb+ line. The snell knot doesn't help the hook cam outward with enough force to overcome pressure of a big bass flattening the hook over sideways when crunches the soft plastic. The assumption is the bass always strikes facing directly towards the hook point and your are hook setting vertically.
If you believe it helps...it helps!
Tom
fissure_man reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 10:27 AM, Catt said:There are many more great flippers who do not use it than ones that do!
If the improvement is small why spend the additional time required to tie it?
I can tie a Palomar knot by the light of a full Moon!
Well with the aid of my reading glasses
Those guys' eyes must be too old to tie it too! ( I jest )
But really, it's not a super hard knot to tie, at least not the version I'm familiar with. Check out the Ike video posted above. If you can get past the kindergarten tone ( I jest again ), he does do a good knot demo. He's talking through it super slow and it takes about 30-40 seconds. In reality it would be half that time.
If we're talking heavy braid around weeds (punching), I won't be retying THAT many times through the day, and it won't take much improvement in hookup % to justify the extra time.
If there was actually some reasonable way to prove that it made a difference, what percent improvement would it take to make someone switch? I'd guess for the typical person reading this site it wouldn't take much. Knots are free.
(hmm... maybe we need to ask Ike where the 20% figure came from in his video lol)
On 5/25/2016 at 10:49 AM, WRB said:Most anglers using this type of hook rig them for punching using pegged heavy bullet weights and the snell knot doesn't help the hook cam outward with enough force to overcome pressure of a big bass flattening the hook over sideways when crunches the soft plastic. The assumption is the bass always strikes facing directly towards the hook point and your are hook setting vertically.
If you believe it helps...it helps!
Tom
Even if the hook is sideways, wouldn't an increase in the hook's "effective bite" (due to pivoting) still be a benefit? There's stuff to hook on the sides of the mouth too
I think a possible flaw with the pivot theory that I haven't seen mentioned is this:
The outward cam action can (in theory) push the hook point away from the line of pull, improving (in theory) the likelihood of grabbing some flesh. But at the same time it causes the hook point to no longer lie parallel to the line of pull, which would decrease the efficiency of penetration (is it like setting the hook with a circle hook?).
In summary, none of this matters. Or does it?
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 7:53 PM, ErikmonBillsfon said:Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP
This is the exact problem that I've seen with them. If the hook point is exposed at all, it will slice through the plastic and start catching on everything and quickly wallows out a big hole in the plastic, sometimes without even catching a fish.
I've never bothered snelling a hook and never will until I start having a hard time hooking fish while I'm flipping. Not saying it doesn't maybe catch an extra fish or two when the stars align and the perfect textbook situation plays out, but I'm happy with my results and a Palomar is a lot faster to tie.
gobig reply :
I think snelling makes a difference. I also think that the trokars are the sharpest hook on the market. People new to punching will hook fish that they never knew were biting. They do however hang up in thick cover because they are so sharp and you will go through more baits.
Catt reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 11:26 AM, fissure_man said:Those guys' eyes must be too old to tie it too!
But really, it's not a super hard knot to tie, at least not the version I'm familiar with. Check out the Ike video posted above. If you can get past the kindergarten tone ( I jest again ), he does do a good knot demo. He's talking through it super slow and it takes about 30-40 seconds. In reality it would be half that time.
If we're talking heavy braid around weeds (punching), I won't be retying THAT many times through the day, and it won't take much improvement in hookup % to justify the extra time.
If there was actually some reasonable way to prove that it made a difference, what percent improvement would it take to make someone switch? I'd guess for the typical person reading this site it wouldn't take much. Knots are free.
(hmm... maybe we need to ask Ike where the 20% figure came from in his video lol)
Even if the hook is sideways, wouldn't an increase in the hook's "effective bite" (due to pivoting) still be a benefit? There's stuff to hook on the sides of the mouth too
I think a possible flaw with the pivot theory that I haven't seen mentioned is this:
The outward cam action can (in theory) push the hook point away from the line of pull, improving (in theory) the likelihood of grabbing some flesh. But at the same time it causes the hook point to no longer lie parallel to the line of pull, which would decrease the efficiency of penetration (is it like setting the hook with a circle hook?).
In summary, none of this matters. Or does it?
There are so many flaws with this "pivoting" theory that no one fully answers.
When demonstrated on videos the anglers holds the weight between their thumb & forefinger, pulls the line showing the hook pivoting. But in most all videos I've seen the weight aint pegged! Aint the reason for pegging to keep the weight in place? Would this mean the line aint sliding?
No one has fully addressed how this "pivoting" take place in a closed mouth!
Y'all gonna tell me ya never set hook, fought a bass only to have it simply open it's mouth & your lure fly out!
It's the theory of using straight shank hooks because on hook set the force is in a straight line with the hook point?
Why ya wanna change it?
Tim Kelly reply :
The bit of the hook you want heading for mouth flesh is the point. The pivoting demos show the bend being pushed up and actually masking the point to some extent. I'm sure you can hook fish with either method, but I don't think there's anything worth taking from the demos of the rig mechanics!
Mike L reply :
On 5/24/2016 at 7:53 PM, ErikmonBillsfon said:Does anyone find it hard to texpose these since they have a knife point instead of a needle point? Do yalls just Texas Rig them in the center of the plastic? Sorry to ask a separate question than OP
On 5/25/2016 at 3:22 PM, Bluebasser86 said:This is the exact problem that I've seen with them. If the hook point is exposed at all, it will slice through the plastic and start catching on everything and quickly wallows out a big hole in the plastic, sometimes without even catching a fish.
I've never bothered snelling a hook and never will until I start having a hard time hooking fish while I'm flipping. Not saying it doesn't maybe catch an extra fish or two when the stars align and the perfect textbook situation plays out, but I'm happy with my results and a Palomar is a lot faster to tie.
I've been useing the TK 130 for years with a snell knot on 65# braid. I use this setup for punching through matt's exclusively. I use 1 bobber stop up to 1oz weights and 2 up to 2 oz. I do not texpose for the reasons you guys said.
Matter of fact before I started useing these, I never texposed any hook when punching.
When rigging a plastic useing these hooks do not push the point through. Stop before you break the skin.. The point is sharp enough that it doesn't matter. At least none that Ive seen.
Mike
fishwizzard reply :
I am more of a finesse guy so a lot of this is going over my head, is this the snell knot you guys are talking about? I have done a little backyard testing of it and while it seems to hold well, it looks like it could loosen up very easily.
WRB reply :
The snell knot is very old and has been around over 100 years used to tie gut leaders then mono to bait holder turned down eye style hooks. It's a reliable knot. The claim is when tied to a straight eye hook, the line will pull the hook point outward. The line exiting the hook eye may flatten long before the force can rotate the hook point outwards when in a big basses mouth.
It's mute discussion, those who are believers willing to pay $2+ for a Eagle Claw Tokar hook, $5+ for a tungsten weight plus skirt and trailer are invested in this rig.
Tom
Catt reply :
Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?
I only "texpose" EWG hooks!
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 12:01 AM, Catt said:Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?
I only "texpose" EWG hooks!
Not really texposed, what I'm guessing he was referring to was leaving the hook point just barely exposed. I like to have a path cleared for my hook with the point just barely exposed to make hook sets a little easier. The main weeds I flip are water willows that don't catch on the point much as long as there isn't too much exposed.
S. Sass reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 12:01 AM, Catt said:Can someone show me how to "texpose" a straight shank round bend hook?
I only "texpose" EWG hooks!
You can do it but the "Pro" will tell you how a plastic worm must be strait as an arrow to work. I guess the "Pro" has never seen a real live worm in or out of water. 
Mike L reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 10:09 PM, Bunnielab said:I am more of a finesse guy so a lot of this is going over my head, is this the snell knot you guys are talking about? I have done a little backyard testing of it and while it seems to hold well, it looks like it could loosen up very easily.
That is one version
I have never had one lossen...However, I am in the habit of checking my line from the hook to about 6 ft up, and then inspect and test the knot after every catch, hit or snag.
Mike
fissure_man reply :
On 5/25/2016 at 8:00 PM, Catt said:There are so many flaws with this "pivoting" theory that no one fully answers.
When demonstrated on videos the anglers holds the weight between their thumb & forefinger, pulls the line showing the hook pivoting. But in most all videos I've seen the weight aint pegged! Aint the reason for pegging to keep the weight in place? Would this mean the line aint sliding?
Pegging with a bobber stop prevents the weight from sliding up the line, not down toward the hook. Still works.
No one has fully addressed how this "pivoting" take place in a closed mouth!
Y'all gonna tell me ya never set hook, fought a bass only to have it simply open it's mouth & your lure fly out!
I tried! lol. If there's no space, no pivot (but any bit of pressure keeping the hook point from hiding behind the big weight is a good thing). If there is space, then perhaps you're about to miss a hookset, and some pivot action would help.
If I miss a hookset because I couldn't budge the bait in the bass' mouth well enough to penetrate, then that's a technique/equipment issue, regardless of the knot.
It's the theory of using straight shank hooks because on hook set the force is in a straight line with the hook point?
Why ya wanna change it?
I disagree. The advantage with a straight shank is that the point is NOT in a straight line with the pull point (parallel, yes; in line, no). Using a snell knot maximizes this benefit, even without a weight. Pulling from the shank rather than the eye encourages the shank to follow the line, increasing your odds of exposing the full bite of the hook (and any pivot-action would add to this effect).
Snell knots are popular with turned-up eye hooks, in part because of how attaching to the shank improves the line of pull relative to the hook point. Picture a flipping hook, rigged straight with plastic and hanging vertically. The hook shank and point are not parallel to the line. Under force, a snell knot helps correct this. Tying to the eye does not.
On 5/25/2016 at 10:38 PM, WRB said:It's mute discussion, those who are believers willing to pay $2+ for a Eagle Claw Tokar hook, $5+ for a tungsten weight plus skirt and trailer are invested in this rig.
Tom
Expensive hooks and weights aren't an investment in the snell knot. The same allegedly faulty logic can be applied to cheap hooks and lead, just like Trokars and tungsten can handle palomars.
WRB reply :
The original question was about the Tokar hook having too short an area between the rebarb keeper and hook eye to effectively tie a snell knot. With 25 mono or FC leader you need 6 turns for the snell knot to hold, 5 is marginal and the space is too short to easily tie this on Tokar hook. Using FC line the Palomar knot is about 75% knot strength, SD jam has better knot strength around 85-90%, all 3 are marginal knots tying braid and all good knots with mono/ coploy line.
Cheaper straight shank hooks without welded eyes cut the line when using a snell knot, that is the reason a snell knot hook has a turned down eye. Welded eye punching hooks are more expensive, Tokar being the highest fresh water priced hook on the market and their prices have come down.
Try offering the OP some useful solution to his question.
Tom
fissure_man reply :
From the original post:
" If I can't snell them do u think it will affect my hook up ratio? "
Clearly some debate on this topic still exists. Is it closed to discussion?
Regarding the rest of his question, it seemed like it had been answered pretty unanimously. Those flipping hooks were designed to accommodate a snell knot, so yes, it works. Admittedly, I haven't tried using 25+ lb mono or flouro on a Trokar so I'll trust your guidance on that. When I tie on a hook like that I'm using 50 or 65 lb test braid and have experienced no problems with running out of space.
Oklahoma Mike reply :
I'm surprised at the number of comments in here regarding the difficulty of tying a snell knot. I find it one of the easiest and fastest knots to tie, second only to a palomar but not by much.
I'm also surprised that people are so passionate about this topic; I'd have never guessed this would have turned into such a spirited debate! I've seen plenty of responses from those like myself championing the snell and laying out the benefits. I've seen plenty of responses on here from posters who are using a palomar (or whatever other knot) with no problems and as such are not inclined to make a change. And that's cool - everyone should find his own preference and do what makes him comfortable.
What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.
Catt reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:31 AM, Oklahoma Mike said:What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.
I don't think the snell is in any way a disadvantage!
I also don't think there is an advantage!
My hookup ratio with Texas Rigs (yes a punch rig is a t-rig on steroids) & Jigs is in the upper 90 percentile range.
If ya think it gives an advantage then by all means tie it.
As to the OP, I tied a Snell knot on all the hooks below with the smallest being a 3/0.
As to not using a Snell knot affecting you hookup ratio no it will not!
Mike L reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:31 AM, Oklahoma Mike said:I'm surprised at the number of comments in here regarding the difficulty of tying a snell knot. I find it one of the easiest and fastest knots to tie, second only to a palomar but not by much.
I'm also surprised that people are so passionate about this topic; I'd have never guessed this would have turned into such a spirited debate! I've seen plenty of responses from those like myself championing the snell and laying out the benefits. I've seen plenty of responses on here from posters who are using a palomar (or whatever other knot) with no problems and as such are not inclined to make a change. And that's cool - everyone should find his own preference and do what makes him comfortable.
What I haven't heard in this thread is the disadvantages of the snell knot. So for those who feel so strongly about not snelling, I'd be very interested to hear what you think are the cons.
I am one of those guys on here who love's to punch. I'd rather punch than do anything else. In tournaments having no say in where we go, I always try to encourage my boater to try a few especially if either of us are struggling. Believe me it has saved our butt's more than once.
After reading OK Mike's question I sat for minute trying to think of any reason, condition or senario to not tie a snell and not to use a Trokar hook in unison...I honestly can't think of one reason.
I tie a snell when punching because it hold's, is easy to tie and I am convinced it has increased my hook ratio.
I use Trokars BECAUSE of the sharpness, the hook keeper and the room it gives me to tie a snell up to and including 80# braid.
I don't care about the science behind it, I'm not as smart as some of these guys so when a discussion gets to this point I just read and move on.
Use what you have confidence in and what you have proven to YOURSELF what works for you.
Mike
Catt reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 9:41 PM, Mike L said:Use what you have confidence in and what you have proven to YOURSELF what works for you.
Mike
Merci Beaucoup.
gardnerjigman reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 8:00 AM, WRB said:Using FC line the Palomar knot is about 75% knot strength, SD jam has better knot strength around 85-90%, all 3 are marginal knots tying braid and
Marginal???
WRB reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 11:09 PM, gardnerjigman said:Marginal???
Yes for braid unless you use double knots braid tends to slip due to coating used to lubricate most super braids.
Tom
gardnerjigman reply :
On 5/26/2016 at 11:24 PM, WRB said:Yes for braid unless you use double knots braid tends to slip due to coating used to lubricate most super braids.
Tom
Gotcha, totally agree.
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