Top Water Fishing. 2024
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Hey guys. So I just recently (about a month ago) started fishing for bass. And since have experimented with a lot of different lures. And I have fell in love with the top water. I've had a lot of success with a pop-r in shad color. I have a few questions about my set up.
1. my rod is a 6'8" duckett ghost MH. Not sure what the tip is but it seems very sensitive. And I know the length might be a little short but I don't have a boat and so to avoid slapping the tip of my rod on the ground I needed something shorter.
2. My reel is an okuma Citrix in a 7.3.1 gear ratio, with 40 lb power pro braid.
Is this what I'm looking for as far as top water lures? I mostly throw pad crashes, poppers and soft plastic frogs.
Another question is, how can I get a maximum cast distance? I see videos where it looks like these guys are heaving those frogs a mile.
And I cast mine an alright distance but I want to try and get the max out of it.
So if anyone has any ideas or can help me out I really appreciate it. I'm new to the forums and bass fishing so I'm like a sponge ready for information where I can get it ha. Thanks ahead of time for any help offered!
BassinLou reply :
For the Booyah and soft plastic frogs the braid is perfectly fine at 40lbs. The popper since its a treble hook bait, you may have want to loosen the drag a bit and not set too hard risking pulling the hooks. As far as rod length, I personally use 7ft for my bank fishing applications.
Lastly, welcome to BR.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Ok so I want to loosen the drag when fishing the popper only? Also I guess I should have mentioned that my magnetic braking system is on free. I just want that extra 10-15ft in my cast distance it seems everyone else is getting. Also is my rod and reel combo right for top water? Should I get a 7ft heavy action? Or is what I have sufficient?
HoosierHawgs reply :
I think 40lb on a 6'8" MH is probably good for frogs from the bank. I sling 50lb on a 7' MH for my frog bank fishing. Works just fine.
scaleface reply :
Actually , I like the rod shorter , 6'0" , for topwater walking/twitching type baits .
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Ok awesome. Just want to make sure I'm on the right track. And as far as casting distance is there any trick to getting it out there far or is that due to only having bought a 100$ reel? And 1 more thing, the place where I'm fishing is a man made lake pond ha and it's mostly for flood protection from the surrounding mountains. The WDFW stock it with trout. And there are a couple other fish species in there but my question is. We are going through a drought in my area and because of that the water has drop severely (5-10ft in places). When I first started fishing there the bass were hitting like crazy. Now I'm lucky to catch 2-3 in a 4 hr period so where are the fish going?
bigturtle reply :
your casting distance depends on way too many variables. Rod power, length and taper, line diameter and type, reel specifications, lure weight, shape and size, as well as your technique, just to name a few of the important ones.
As far as your lake is concerned, if the water level dropped that severely, i would imagine the bass is heading to deeper parts of the lake, maybe parts that are out of your casting range.
BassinLou reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 2:18 AM, Kyrazzy7 said:Ok so I want to loosen the drag when fishing the popper only? Also I guess I should have mentioned that my magnetic braking system is on free. I just want that extra 10-15ft in my cast distance it seems everyone else is getting. Also is my rod and reel combo right for top water? Should I get a 7ft heavy action? Or is what I have sufficient?
Yes, I would loosen the drag a bit on the popper. On the frogs I would tighten enough that it doesn't slip on hookset but peel if the fish surges hard close to the boat. As far as the power of your rod is concerned, that will depend on the density of the coverage you are fishing. I would stay with what you have if you are fishing a popper on the same outfit. The setting of your reel with these heavier baits, depending on the reel you have can be set as low as 0-3, just like you currently have.
BassinLou reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 4:05 AM, BassinLou said:Yes, I would loosen the drag a bit on the popper. On the frogs I would tighten enough that it doesn't slip on hookset but peel if the fish surges hard close to the boat. As far as the power of your rod is concerned, that will depend on the density of the coverage you are fishing. I would stay with what you have if you are fishing a popper on the same outfit. The setting of your reel with these heavier baits, depending on the reel you have, can be set as low as 0-3, just like you currently have.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 4:05 AM, BassinLou said:Yes, I would loosen the drag a bit on the popper. On the frogs I would tighten enough that it doesn't slip on hookset but peel if the fish surges hard close to the boat. As far as the power of your rod is concerned, that will depend on the density of the coverage you are fishing. I would stay with what you have if you are fishing a popper on the same outfit. The setting of your reel with these heavier baits, depending on the reel you have can be set as low as 0-3, just like you currently have.
Ok. Thanks a lot for all your help!
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 2:38 AM, bigturtle said:your casting distance depends on way too many variables. Rod power, length and taper, line diameter and type, reel specifications, lure weight, shape and size, as well as your technique, just to name a few of the important ones.
As far as your lake is concerned, if the water level dropped that severely, i would imagine the bass is heading to deeper parts of the lake, maybe parts that are out of your casting range.
Wow didn't know there was so much too it. But I appreciate the information.
And hopefully I can get some kind of boat than if they're going deep. Thanks.
Shanes7614 reply :
Rod length has a lot to do with casting distance as well. The longer the rod the longer the cast.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 6:25 AM, Shanes7614 said:Rod length has a lot to do with casting distance as well. The longer the rod the longer the cast.
ok. i knew i should gotten the 7' or even longer. i just didnt want to be hitting the rod tip on the ground when i fish from shore..
maybe ill add that to a wish list. thanks
robster80 reply :
heck i use a 6'6 and end up slapping the ground. im searchin for a 6footer now
Shanes7614 reply :
I'm not quite sure why you would be slapping the ground with the tip of the rod. Had you said there's not a lot of overhead clearance then I would understand that reasoning.
AdamsEye reply :
The more line between your rod tip, and your lure, the further your cast will be. The less tension on the spool, the faster it will spin and your lure can travel. To fast = backlash.
Are you noticing a difference in distance between a soft frog versus a hollow bodied or popper? Or is this more of an overall distance issue?
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 10:09 AM, Shanes7614 said:I'm not quite sure why you would be slapping the ground with the tip of the rod. Had you said there's not a lot of overhead clearance then I would understand that reasoning.
When I say slapping the ground that's cause when using a popper or frog I'm pointing the rod tip down and jerking down slightly to pop or walk the frog
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 10:15 AM, AdamsEye said:The more line between your rod tip, and your lure, the further your cast will be. The less tension on the spool, the faster it will spin and your lure can travel. To fast = backlash.
Are you noticing a difference in distance between a soft frog versus a hollow bodied or popper? Or is this more of an overall distance issue?
There's definitely a difference in distance between the 3. The hollow bodied pad crashed casts the farthest but not by much to the plastic. And the popper is even shorter than the plastic. I have my magnetic brakes on free and the spool drag isn't that tight at all. My frog or whatever I'm using will hit the ground pretty quick if I take my thumb off the clutch. (Excuse me if that's the wrong word for it)
AdamsEye reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 12:21 PM, Kyrazzy7 said:There's definitely a difference in distance between the 3. The hollow bodied pad crashed casts the farthest but not by much to the plastic. And the popper is even shorter than the plastic. I have my magnetic brakes on free and the spool drag isn't that tight at all. My frog or whatever I'm using will hit the ground pretty quick if I take my thumb off the clutch. (Excuse me if that's the wrong word for it)
With the tension set your bait should fall slowly. When the bait hits the water it should stop falling and the spool should have just enough tension on it to prevent it from over running. This is the way I set up all my baitcast reels; Rod out horizontal to the water with the bait a few inches from the tip. I like to start with the tension higher then needed, and decrease it with the spool released until it starts to fall slowly. I like to dial them so the spool stops with out over running and leaves my bait mostly in the water.
I would start there, dial that tension knob to the bait your are throwing. See what kind of difference it has, might work might not.
Shanes7614 reply :
What's the weight difference in what your throwing?
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 1:10 PM, AdamsEye said:With the tension set your bait should fall slowly. When the bait hits the water it should stop falling and the spool should have just enough tension on it to prevent it from over running. This is the way I set up all my baitcast reels; Rod out horizontal to the water with the bait a few inches from the tip. I like to start with the tension higher then needed, and decrease it with the spool released until it starts to fall slowly. I like to dial them so the spool stops with out over running and leaves my bait mostly in the water.
I would start there, dial that tension knob to the bait your are throwing. See what kind of difference it has, might work might not.
That's how I do it when I change lures. But it casts just a little farther when it's not as tight. Maybe it's just me ha. I'm going at 5a.m so I'll try a couple different things and let you guys know.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/26/2015 at 1:37 PM, Shanes7614 said:What's the weight difference in what your throwing?
The weight difference is quite a bit. The frogs are kinda heavy. And the popper is very light. Not exact on the actual weights. I'll have to look that up.
SirSnookalot reply :
Poppers don't have to be light, many weights and sizes are available. The distance comes from the profile of the lure, a 3/4 oz pencil popper is going to cast further than a frog of the same weight, less air resistance. That 3/4 oz pencil popper won't cast as far as a 3/4 oz kastmaster, thinner profile and less resistance.
When I'm fishing a popper I'm matching the lure to the rod, for bass fishing I like a chug bug, I think they get some pretty good distance too.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Update. I went out this morning bright and early (4a.m) an was fishing my frogs. I tryed a couple different things when casting and it seems the easier i try and toss it the farther it goes. when i really tried to whip it, it barley went anywhere so i think i worked it out. caught some good fish this morning too. also i noticed something maybe a little weird. on about the 3rd fish i caught (decent size. about 14'') when i was removing the hook from its mouth i noticed a big gash on its back. and it was definetly fresh. there was stiill a little bit of blood coming out of it. also its tail was all banged up and bloody too. are other bigger bass trying to eat these size ones? or is something else happening? i dont think anything in this lake is big enough to eat that big of a bass
Felixone reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 12:35 AM, Kyrazzy7 said:Update. I went out this morning bright and early (4a.m) an was fishing my frogs. I tryed a couple different things when casting and it seems the easier i try and toss it the farther it goes. when i really tried to whip it, it barley went anywhere so i think i worked it out. caught some good fish this morning too. also i noticed something maybe a little weird. on about the 3rd fish i caught (decent size. about 14'') when i was removing the hook from its mouth i noticed a big gash on its back. and it was definetly fresh. there was stiill a little bit of blood coming out of it. also its tail was all banged up and bloody too. are other bigger bass trying to eat these size ones? or is something else happening? i dont think anything in this lake is big enough to eat that big of a bass
It doesn't have to be another fish trying to eat it. Open wounds on the back could signify a bird attack, or perhaps it got too close to the bank and was hit by a four legged critter.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 1:57 AM, Felixone said:It doesn't have to be another fish trying to eat it. Open wounds on the back could signify a bird attack, or perhaps it got too close to the bank and was hit by a four legged critter.
Ha never thought of that
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Here's one of the early morning frog feeders 
Kyrazzy7 reply :
I'm still searching for those nice 6+ lbers. Feel like I might need a boat to get one though
BassinLou reply :
You don't need a boat to catch 6 pounders. Although, having a boat will open up water accessibility you need to hone your craft. You have been bass fishing for only 2 months, keep learning and improving and you will stick bigger bass in no time.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Thanks! Yea Im trying to learn as much as possible. It's been a fun short amount of time. I need to get a scale so I can track my progress. Here's a pic of the biggest one I've caught. How much do you think she weighsOn 6/27/2015 at 4:34 AM, BassinLou said:You don't need a boat to catch 6 pounders. Although, having a boat will open up water accessibility you need to hone your craft. You have been bass fishing for only 2 months, keep learning and improving and you will stick bigger bass in no time.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
She was pretty fat. Pictures doesn't do it justice ha although everyone always wants it to be bigger than it was
AdamsEye reply :
Good to hear you got it worked out, and had a good day's fishing! I agree with getting a pair of hip waders, it can really open up the water for $30.
It's seems like boat or no boat, you had a good day. I would say you did fine without one today!
the reel ess reply :
I use a 6'6" M, Moderate tip with 15# mono for topwaters with trebles. You don't need a 7' rod for this technique because you want to twitch the tip a lot. The reason they say you should loosen your drag is that line won't stretch. You can rip the trebles out of a fish when it strikes or while it's fighting with the braid. Mono would stretch some and be a little more forgiving.
But the frog is a different story. A longer, heavier rod and braided line give a better hooksets.
AdamsEye reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 10:27 AM, the reel ess said:I use a 6'6" M, Moderate tip with 15# mono for topwaters with trebles. You don't need a 7' rod for this technique because you want to twitch the tip a lot. The reason they say you should loosen your drag is that line won't stretch. You can rip the trebles out of a fish when it strikes or while it's fighting with the braid. Mono would stretch some and be a little more forgiving.
But the frog is a different story. A longer, heavier rod and braided line give a better hooksets.
I throw a very similar setup, only 6'8", 14 or 12lb and fast action with topwater trebles. I fish my frogs on a rod very similar to his, with 60lb braid. Kinda funny how that worked out.
I never fished to much topwater until a few years ago when it just grew on me. Now I probably fish to much topwater lol!
CeeJay reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 12:35 AM, Kyrazzy7 said:Update. I went out this morning bright and early (4a.m) an was fishing my frogs. I tryed a couple different things when casting and it seems the easier i try and toss it the farther it goes. when i really tried to whip it, it barley went anywhere so i think i worked it out. caught some good fish this morning too. also i noticed something maybe a little weird. on about the 3rd fish i caught (decent size. about 14'') when i was removing the hook from its mouth i noticed a big gash on its back. and it was definetly fresh. there was stiill a little bit of blood coming out of it. also its tail was all banged up and bloody too. are other bigger bass trying to eat these size ones? or is something else happening? i dont think anything in this lake is big enough to eat that big of a bass
Awesome. Sounds like you're picking up the subtleties of bass angling very fast. 
4am is perfect, it's just so much fun to fish while most people are still sleeping. I try to hit the water by no later than 5am.
Yep, a nice and easy cast is a thing of beauty and the lure will fly far. I use spinning tackle, but whenever I rush a cast (which happens from time to time) I lose a good amount of distance compared to a smooth relaxed cast.
Good luck and have fun 
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 9:42 AM, AdamsEye said:Good to hear you got it worked out, and had a good day's fishing! I agree with getting a pair of hip waders, it can really open up the water for $30.
It's seems like boat or no boat, you had a good day. I would say you did fine without one today!
yea i just got a pair of waders a couple days ago. just trying to find a good spot to wade in at my lake is the next task. most of it is drop offs. 9/10 of the fish im catching are no more than 15' from shore.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 10:27 AM, the reel ess said:I use a 6'6" M, Moderate tip with 15# mono for topwaters with trebles. You don't need a 7' rod for this technique because you want to twitch the tip a lot. The reason they say you should loosen your drag is that line won't stretch. You can rip the trebles out of a fish when it strikes or while it's fighting with the braid. Mono would stretch some and be a little more forgiving.
But the frog is a different story. A longer, heavier rod and braided line give a better hooksets.
so do you think the set up i have now is more geared towards poppers and other top water lures? and that i should get a little longer heavier rod for frogs?
Kyrazzy7 reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 11:53 AM, CeeJay said:Awesome. Sounds like you're picking up the subtleties of bass angling very fast.
4am is perfect, it's just so much fun to fish while most people are still sleeping. I try to hit the water by no later than 5am.
Yep, a nice and easy cast is a thing of beauty and the lure will fly far. I use spinning tackle, but whenever I rush a cast (which happens from time to time) I lose a good amount of distance compared to a smooth relaxed cast.
Good luck and have fun
hey thanks! growing up in alaska ive been fishing all my life. but bass fishing is a totally different beast. its been really fun so far. especially watching them breach the water while slamming a frog!
andd it was nice going super early. i had the whole lake to myself! im gonna go again in the morning!
Shanes7614 reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 12:09 PM, Kyrazzy7 said:so do you think the set up i have now is more geared towards poppers and other top water lures? and that i should get a little longer heavier rod for frogs?
The setup you have now is plenty of length if your catching most fish within 15' of shore. Heavy braid is the standard due to frogs being used in heavy cover and able to get a solid hook set. A lot of problems associated with missed hook sets is most guys have the mentality they need to "bomb" their bait as far away as possible and then wonder why they can't transfer that energy to the fish for a solid hook set. Practice your accuracy over distance 99% of the time. With accuracy and consistency comes distance on its own. Pay more attention to stealth and approach and your numbers and weights will also improve. Learn to use your combo as a TOOL of the trade. All aspects and angles. Practice backhand forehand underhand overhead and all angles in between and you will also find yourself placing baits where most people can't. I was taught as a kid to carry the mentality of... It's not the size of the hammer you use but how you use it is what counts. There is plenty to learn on here and some good advice as well as plenty of downright BS. If in doubt, try it out!!! What may not work for someone else doesn't mean it won't work for you. You'll get a lot of satisfaction when your using substandard equipment and out fishing these guys with their 1000$ combos.
BassinLou reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 9:04 AM, Kyrazzy7 said:Thanks! Yea Im trying to learn as much as possible. It's been a fun short amount of time. I need to get a scale so I can track my progress. Here's a pic of the biggest one I've caught. How much do you think she weighs
image.jpg
image.jpg
That's a nice fish. As far as a guess of the weight? I quit playing that game a while ago. Lol... What I have learned over the yrs, is to carry a decent scale, that way, when the big one hits, you can have an accurate weight. I take it one more step and carry a ruler as well. And... never forget your cell phone for the pics. You know what they say. "pics or it never happened" 
. Lastly if I would have to guess on the weight of your fish, based on the thickness and size of the mouth, I would guess under 4lbs. Best of luck to you.
the reel ess reply :
On 6/27/2015 at 12:09 PM, Kyrazzy7 said:so do you think the set up i have now is more geared towards poppers and other top water lures? and that i should get a little longer heavier rod for frogs?
Yes. But I don't have a setup specifically geared for frogs either. I just rigged up a 7' MH Falcon rod with a Mod Fast tip that I bought from a friend used, half price. It's really a big crankbait rod and not the ideal setup. But with the braid, I feel it'll get the job done until I can get a Hvy/Fast. I've already been using this combo with 17# floro for T-rigs and it's had plenty of backbone for hooksets. It'll get me by for the rest of this frog season.
Short of buying a rod made specifically for frogs, most people look for a flipping/pitching rod that's a little shorter and with a little bit more mod tip. I've walked the bank frogging at my friends' pond using a MH spinning combo with 17# Fireline. I landed exactly half the fish that bit that day.
If you get another combo for frogs, you can reel the braid off the other rod onto the new one. For the topwaters, you can get by with cheaper mono line.
Kyrazzy7 reply :
Hey thanks a lot everyone for all your insight and help! Much appreciated! I've got the cast distance issue worked out. Now I'm gonna start trying new techniques.
ChrisD46 reply :
From The Bank :
Frog Rod : 7'0" ~ 7'3" MH with #40 lb. braid (work the rod to the side)
Topwater : 6'0" ~ 6'8" M with #30 lb. braid plus a #12 lb ~ #15 lb. mono leader (work the rod down to the side or bottom depending on length)
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