The Tackle Debate 2024
Mobasser reply :
A friend recently bought his son a new casting rod and reel. They had a deal. If the kid kept his grades good- with no bad reports this would be an incentive to keep it up. He stopped by last night to show it to me. Fenwick HMG casting rod and ABU BLACK MAX reel. The first thing he said was "well it's not really that good, I hope it will work". WHAT!!? I made a few cast in the yard with this outfit. I could fish it all day long. To prove a point, I showed him the rig I started on ABU red 5000 reel and a fiberglass Heddon casting rod. Heavy, slow, and not very sensitive either. I see this in the threads I read here. Lots of beginners are way to worried about brand name in tackle, or how much it cost. As many of us know, you can have the very best, but it won't catch any fish in the wrong location. I'm in no way knocking the high end tackle, it is better in many ways.Heres my take on it: take your tackle, regardless of brand, cost etc and fish as much as you can. Put in some time to learn about fish location, seasonal patterns and related info first. Your tackle will work just fine. Like old timers used to say here in Missouri," you can't catch em where there ain't none". That's a fact.
LCG reply :
The fenwick hmg is a nice rod. Plenty sensitive and strong. The reel is entry level but should work just fine.
Is your friend buying his kid a BMW for his first car? Probably not, same goes with fishing equipment.
My boy is younger, I got him an ugly stick youth model because he is not gentle with his stuff. If he likes the sport I will get him better stuff down the road but it works just fine for him now. I let him use my st croix rods but I do have that look of fear everytime 
I will say that's nice to see an encouragement token other than phones, tablets, Xbox, etc.
Derek1 reply :
I was checking out the ugly stick spin cast combos for my grandson next year. I almost can’t get over how sloppy the real is. He has a Jurassic world dock demen type now. He’s six and I feel they outgrow their set up every year right now anyway so no point in spending money on one yet. I think if they stay interested after a few seasons then get them something better. Just my two sence
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 8:17 PM, Derek1 said:I was checking out the ugly stick spin cast combos for my grandson next year. I almost can’t get over how sloppy the real is. He has a Jurassic world dock demen type now. He’s six and I feel they outgrow their set up every year right now anyway so no point in spending money on one yet. I think if they stay interested after a few seasons then get them something better. Just my two sence
I started at 5 with a cane pole. Next year my father got me a Mitchell 300 spinning reel. Had it for a good many years. No problem learning to use it. I'd like to say that any 6 year old should be able to step right into a spinning reel, but I know that wouldn't be the truth in all cases. Depends on the child.
OP, I like my HMGs. It is not only a good rod for beginners but for anyone AFAIC. No experience with the Black Max, but I tend to think that the Daiwa Fuego CT would be a much better reel. I have seen them for less than $60 on ebay. Think lowest was $55 plus change.
ratherbfishin1 reply :
Nothing wrong with the black max. I have a friend who fished a black max for a long time and probably still would be if he hadn't tried my lews tournament pro one day. As long as you don't know how good things can get you will be 100% satisfied. I'm sure if I were to fish with a Antares I would not be satisfied with what I've got... but I haven't yet.
LionHeart reply :
Were you quoting your friend? Or his son? If his son said this, make the little punk buy his own next time. If your friend said this, why did he buy it?
In truth, that's a very serviceable setup, especially for free.
GReb reply :
I’ve caught a number of 7+ pounders on much worse equipment. That Abu reel would’ve been a Cadillac 20 years ago
Mobasser reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 9:27 PM, new2BC4bass said:I started at 5 with a cane pole. Next year my father got me a Mitchell 300 spinning reel. Had it for a good many years. No problem learning to use it. I'd like to say that any 6 year old should be able to step right into a spinning reel, but I know that wouldn't be the truth in all cases. Depends on the child.
OP, I like my HMGs. It is not only a good rod for beginners but for anyone AFAIC. No experience with the Black Max, but I tend to think that the Daiwa Fuego CT would be a much better reel. I have seen them for less than $60 on ebay. Think lowest was $55 plus change.
Agree! I have an HMG spinning rod. One of my favorites
greentrout reply :
kid sounds like a typical spoiled brat snowflake...academy here sells a ton of the black max combos and these ol boys know how to bass fish and stay with abu garcia for life...
good fishing...
r83srock reply :
I started on two bps extreme combos and a hand me down lightning rod/shimano 10xg, it was way more than I needed as a 14 year old, but I was so excited to fish with them! The next year I bought my first Curado, and have owned many nice Shimano/st. Croix set ups. Just last week I was at FFO, picked up two blackmax baitcasters for $30 total, and 3 vendetta rods, they feel nice in my hands, so to me that’s all that matters. I also own 2 HMGs, it’s as nice of a rod as anyone needs. That boy ought to be thankful and just enjoy, that setup is more than enough to create a memory or win the next tour event. I make way more money now than I did when I was 14, but my desire to buy more expensive gear hasn’t increased, I think it’s just priorities.
JoshFromBolo reply :
Starting out with a blackmax? That's one of the best reels you can start and learn on, honestly one of the best bang for your buck reels out there. Silvermax included. And I don't know much about the rod, but I know people praise them! That kid is lucky! I didn't own a single pole/reel growing up, not till I hit 18...
Mobasser reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 10:26 PM, greentrout said:kid sounds like a typical spoiled brat snowflake...academy here sells a ton of the black max combos and these ol boys know how to bass fish and stay with abu garcia for life...
good fishing...
greentrout, no snowflake here. Kid plays tackle on his high school team, and works with his dad all summer in the concrete business. He's 17 and saved most of the money for his first car too. I think he reads too many reviews, and bases all this on what he sees pro fisherman using. I live in a farm area. No place for snowflakes around here. Hell, half the population - men and women wear camo on a daily basis. I think he felt better about his rod/ reel when he left my house. I assured him it's gonna work
r83srock reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 11:31 PM, Mobasser said:greentrout, no snowflake here. Kid plays tackle on his high school team, and works with his dad all summer in the concrete business. He's 17 and saved most of the money for his first car too. I think he reads too many reviews, and bases all this on what he sees pro fisherman using. I live in a farm area. No place for snowflakes around here. Hell, half the population - men and women wear camo on a daily basis. I think he felt better about his rod/ reel when he left my house. I assured him it's gonna work
I’m sure he’s a decent kid, not all of em are bad. Some words of wisdom and an example were all he needed sounds like.
TOXIC reply :
My advise to Jr. would have been that before you refine your gear, refine your technique. Stay functional in all aspects of fishing Rods/Reels/Lures until you find out where your strength and preferences lie, then match your gear to that. Most of us have been fishing many years and we can actually benefit from the gear more tailored to our style of fishing. Don't let marketing get you out over your skis!!
GReb reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 11:49 PM, TOXIC said:My advise to Jr. would have been that before you refine your gear, refine your technique. Stay functional in all aspects of fishing Rods/Reels/Lures until you find out where your strength and preferences lie, then match your gear to that. Most of us have been fishing many years and we can actually benefit from the gear more tailored to our style of fishing. Don't let marketing get you out over your skis!!
See that a lot in golf. Average strikers running to buy blades and hitting pro v1s when they’d shave 7 shots by playing the cast irons and hitting balls half that price
ratherbfishin1 reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 11:56 PM, GReb said:See that a lot in golf. Average strikers running to buy blades and hitting pro v1s when they’d shave 7 shots by playing the cast irons and hitting balls half that price
Is fishing talk as hard for someone who doesn't fish to understand as golf talk is to someone who doesn't golf???????
Chance_Taker4 reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 11:56 PM, GReb said:See that a lot in golf. Average strikers running to buy blades and hitting pro v1s when they’d shave 7 shots by playing the cast irons and hitting balls half that price
I see that all too often. Some guy shooting Pro V1s with his Taylormade blades and latest and greatest driver. Then looks down on people like me shooting cavity back Cobras and Nike balls yet when we come back in they are always the worst player.
I used to be the same way. When I was younger I would always upgrade to the latest and greatest and catch more fish. I finally thought deep about it and realized that the reason the new stuff always produced more was not the gear but the confidence I gained by buying new. I refocused my confidence in my technique and less in the gear and it has saved me tons of money over the last few years.
MrPeanut reply :
Golf was a great analogy.
I can't think of many other sports / hobbies where there is a pro circuit with tons of marketing etc geared towards the idea "this equipment will make all the difference for you". When in reality, it will but only to a certain degree. Technique and location matter so much more than having top end gear.
That being said it's important to remember, especially for those just starting out, there's a lot of guys/gals who get the higher end gear and swear by it - but it's also because at their stage of life it's in their budget and it's worth it to them. It doesn't necessarily mean that level of gear is needed in order to catch fish.
bigfruits reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 10:26 PM, greentrout said:kid sounds like a typical spoiled brat snowflake...academy here sells a ton of the black max combos and these ol boys know how to bass fish and stay with abu garcia for life...
good fishing...
those poor kids. cant you show them a brighter future?
HMGs are great rods. Kid can save his pennies if he decides to upgrade the reel.
GeekFisher reply :
On 10/20/2018 at 7:25 AM, bigfruits said:those poor kids. cant you show them a brighter future?
HMGs are great rods. Kid can save his pennies if he decides to upgrade the reel.
I plan on buying one more HMG to put in the arsenal ! Kid is spoiled
Boomstick reply :
I learned to fish a casting rod on the Ugly Stik and Black Max I bought for my oldest son, who was brave enough to try a baitcaster. It's definitely not as good of a setup as what he has now (I got him a Dobyns 704C and Shimano Curado K for his birthday (as he's taken to soft plastics) but we both caught plenty of fish on the Ugly Stik and Black Max combo he still uses it today for crankbaits!
The HMG is a huge step up from the Ugly Stik anyway. No reason he can't go out and land some nice fish with it.
Eric86 reply :
I wouldn't say he is necessarily spoiled because I would put money on it that this kid read a lot of reviews on it before he made a statement. I have a hard time with this myself. I like to research almost everything before I buy it and as far as equipment goes, you normally get what you pay for. A lot of times people dont really know what they will be happy with when starting something new. I know nothing about hunting bows but I know I wouldn't want a bottom price point one or a top shelf one either.
Catt reply :
Aiden (Bayou Boy) Savant purchased his first combo all on his own!
Lew's® Laser TXS & 6'6" MH Fast $80 at Academy
@Mobasser I started tournament fishing with a ABU red 5000 reel and a fiberglass Heddon casting rod.
Mobasser reply :
On 10/21/2018 at 9:57 PM, Catt said:Aiden (Bayou Boy) Savant purchased his first combo all on his own!
Lew's® Laser TXS & 6'6" MH Fast $80 at Academy
@Mobasser I started tournament fishing with a ABU red 5000 reel and a fiberglass Heddon casting rod.
Thank you Catt. I know you see my point with this thread. Aidens combo will catch a lot of bass! Many youngsters are influenced by pro fisherman, media, and reviews. They base everything on this.Oh yea, I like his name. I have a grandson named Aiden too.
lo n slo reply :
incentive is the key here, plus, fishing is involved. could be a win-win for everybody....except the bass ????
Catt reply :
On 10/21/2018 at 10:11 PM, Mobasser said:Thank you Catt. I know you see my point with this thread. Aidens combo will catch a lot of bass! Many youngsters are influenced by pro fisherman, media, and reviews. They base everything on this.Oh yea, I like his name. I have a grandson named Aiden too.
Aiden couldn't name a single Pro except maybe KVD, he doesn't watch YouTube videos, he's not on social media.
I taught him basic techniques, how to read water, & turned him loose.
It aint the tackle! ????
Mobasser reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 12:54 AM, Catt said:
Aiden couldn't name a single Pro except maybe KVD, he doesn't watch YouTube videos, he's not on social media.
I taught him basic techniques, how to read water, & turned him loose.
It aint the tackle! ????
Awesome Catt! I agree 100%. It ain't the tackle
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/21/2018 at 9:16 PM, Eric86 said:I wouldn't say he is necessarily spoiled because I would put money on it that this kid read a lot of reviews on it before he made a statement. I have a hard time with this myself. I like to research almost everything before I buy it and as far as equipment goes, you normally get what you pay for. A lot of times people dont really know what they will be happy with when starting something new. I know nothing about hunting bows but I know I wouldn't want a bottom price point one or a top shelf one either.
He probably did do a lot of research. Heck, even at my age I have come to the point where I seldom buy anything without first researching.....whether it is fishing gear, knife sharpener, portable heater or a dishwasher, etc.
Eric86 reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 2:04 AM, new2BC4bass said:He probably did do a lot of research. Heck, even at my age I have come to the point where I seldom buy anything without first researching.....whether it is fishing gear, knife sharpener, portable heater or a dishwasher, etc.
I do love it when you read all these reviews on how awesome something is only to see that its absolute garbage. I would be naive to think that some of not most of these reviews have some self interest in the product. The live target sunfish comes to mind. The best use I have found from one of those is cutting the weight off to replace a frog hook that I lost a barb on.
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 9:27 PM, new2BC4bass said:I started at 5 with a cane pole.
I still have mine. 9 ft long, circa mid 1950s, it's dry and brittle and would probably snap on a bluegill. It hangs on the wall in my man cave to remind me where I started.
crypt reply :
the fish don't care what type, make or how much the equipment cost.just go fish.................
J.Vincent reply :
The Fenwick HMG is an incredible rod with very nice components ; it fishes well above its price point. The fact is learning begins somewhere, and it's not typically done with $200 rods and $200 reels. Even now when I can afford any brand I want , I still fish $100 rods and $100 reels. I only find marginal improvements with each additional $50 I spend , so I really agree the focus should be on techniques, situational intelligence, weather, water and seasonal patterns !
Sifuedition reply :
I actually have that reel. I bought it to test out left-handed retrieve. I have since bought a Curado K and a Chronarch in left-handed retrieve and only use my lefties now. Having said that, I have really enjoyed the black max. It is surprisingly smooth and good for throwing even light lures. The drawback is that after a year of decent use, it definitely shows a lot more signs of wear than my higher end reels. It still works well, but it is starting to sound rough. This is likely my own fault as I really don't clean and lube my reels.
The kid should learn good reel maintenance. Learn how to lube and clean it and it will be a good reel.
Harold Scoggins reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 7:46 PM, Mobasser said:Lots of beginners are way to worried about brand name in tackle, or how much it cost.
Without knowing anything about the boy's family situation, I think you did the right thing in showing him the positive in his rod/reel outfit. I know I'm guilty in pushing some of the tackle I've talked about around some of the beginners on this forum, but in retrospect, I want to ensure everyone I started with nothing and had to pay my own way. I attribute this from being raised by parents who lived through the Great Depression. One thing I am sure of, kids have it harder today IMO. With all the media behind the pros, Googans and Googan want to be(s) out there, there is a lot of pressure on these kids today. Yes, you did the right thing @Mobasser. Maybe we should spend more time reading Walden and why it is we really fish.
On 10/22/2018 at 12:54 AM, Catt said:
Aiden couldn't name a single Pro except maybe KVD, he doesn't watch YouTube videos, he's not on social media.
I taught him basic techniques, how to read water, & turned him loose.
It aint the tackle! ????
The smile on his face...Priceless!
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 4:51 AM, Harold Scoggins said:I still have mine. 9 ft long, circa mid 1950s, it's dry and brittle and would probably snap on a bluegill. It hangs on the wall in my man cave to remind me where I started.
I'm amazed you still have it. Mine probably got thrown away as soon as I got the spinning reel.
Catt reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 5:35 AM, Harold Scoggins said:The smile on his face...Priceless!
The boy is kinda cocky!
Don't know where he get it ????
Mobasser reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 9:44 AM, Catt said:
The boy is kinda cocky!
Don't know where he get it ????
My grandson is my fishing partner too Catt. Sometimes he's quite a hotshot! When I'm reaching in the cooler for a bottle of water, or pouring a cup of coffee it's " grandpa you just missed a fish". He likes to watch my line too! It's all good. It's been the best fishing experience ever. Watching him get better all the time
LadiMopar reply :
On 10/19/2018 at 8:17 PM, Derek1 said:I was checking out the ugly stick spin cast combos for my grandson next year. I almost can’t get over how sloppy the real is. He has a Jurassic world dock demen type now. He’s six and I feel they outgrow their set up every year right now anyway so no point in spending money on one yet. I think if they stay interested after a few seasons then get them something better. Just my two sence
Bought my grandson the Ugly stick spinning set up (open face) when he was 9 (he's 12 now). The 5' 6" rod is perfect for most kids in the 6 - 12 age bracket unless they are extremely vertically challenged in either direction. (Very small or very tall for their age). The only gripe I had about it was 2 hours into its first use the reel literally fell apart in his hands. Poor kid was heartbroken, thinking he had done something wrong.
So, the lesson learned was...stay away from those blister pack combos and get something you can actually "try" before you buy. He's still using the Ugly stick, but I paired it with a better quality but still reasonably priced Pfleuger.
End result- happy kid who isn't frustrated or heartbroken because of equipment failure. Long term outlook, another generation to carry on and grow the sport. Win, win!
TOXIC reply :
My only cautionary comment is that cheap is not good if you are trying to teach a newbie how to use a baitcaster. I've taught a lot and contrary to what many would think is normal............Buying a Cheap Combo to start out............is totally wrong. It takes more skill to successfully cast a cheap baitcaster than it does a mid range one. Better drag/spool control/breaking systems all help a new learner develop the technique. I've seen way too many discouraged new anglers who think they can't cast a baitcaster and gave up it. More than likely they were using the cheapest baitcaster they could find. Once I put a good mid-range baitcaster properly set up for someone who hasn't used one a lot, in their hands with a little instruction, they quickly change their mind.
Mobasser reply :
On 10/22/2018 at 7:18 PM, TOXIC said:My only cautionary comment is that cheap is not good if you are trying to teach a newbie how to use a baitcaster. I've taught a lot and contrary to what many would think is normal............Buying a Cheap Combo to start out............is totally wrong. It takes more skill to successfully cast a cheap baitcaster than it does a mid range one. Better drag/spool control/breaking systems all help a new learner develop the technique. I've seen way too many discouraged new anglers who think they can't cast a baitcaster and gave up it. More than likely they were using the cheapest baitcaster they could find. Once I put a good mid-range baitcaster properly set up for someone who hasn't used one a lot, in their hands with a little instruction, they quickly change their mind.
I agree. Cheap never works. For slightly more money, you can often step up a lot in quality. Makes a huge difference for a beginner
Catt reply :
If you cannot cast a Abu Garcia Black Max ya might wanna consider taking up knitting!
Further North reply :
Wait...there's a "Tackle Debate"?
I'm doing something wrong...I thought it was a "Tackle Accumulation". ????
ItsHardwick reply :
I own some higher end gear. And it’s nice and serves its purpose. But I try not to get too caught up in the hype surrounding rods and reels. In fact one of my favorite reels is a lews something or other I bought at Walmart for $55, I have $200 and $300 reels but the cheapo lews is great at what I ask it to do. One of my favorite rods is a ml f/xf h2o express deal I got at academy for $20. It’s a whip and I use it for weightless/wacky rigged senkos and it’s amazing. Not to mention super fun when I hook into a 3-4 pounder, every fish feels huge on that rod.
My oldest son just turned 11. He picked up a spinning reel very quickly last year, and this spring I bought him his first casting setup. 6’6” mh/f h20 express rod that was around $40 and an Abu Black Max. The reel is actually pretty nice for the price point. He’s still getting the hang of it but it’s perfect for him at his age and just starting out.
blckshirt98 reply :
Higher end tackle at some point becomes more of a confidence thing. I'm sure almost anyone here who's experienced could use a $40 Walmart combo and outfish a new angler with a $1k combo, and a pro could use that $40 Walmart combo and outfish any weekend warrior with a $1k combo. The fish can't see and don't care about the rod and reel, it's all about the presentation of what's in the water.
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