The Pros and Cons between the Avid and Avid X 2024

Squali reply :

I have been getting great feedback on a all purpose Great Lakes smallmouth spinning rod .

The opions have been leaning towards a 7' MF St Croix Avid model .

I was wondering what the difference between the Avid and Avid X is . I know the X has a fighting butt and small guides . What exactly do the smaller guides do ? Does anyone have a hands on comparison between these two rods ?

EvanT123 reply :

The smaller guides on the avid x will make the rod lighter and more responsive.

Some may have had problems running braid with a leader threw them but this has not been my experience with micro guide spinning rods.

Loomis13 reply :

To me the rods don't feel very similar when playing around with them in the store. I think the avid x is a much more refined rod, but others may think differently. I cannot say exactly why I think that, they just seem like completely different rods.

A-Jay reply :

I've got the Avid X 7' ML spinner heading my way.

Should be here in the next few days or so.

Plan on it being my designated drop shot rod.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Of course, I'm still iced in pretty good up here so it'll be a few weeks or so.

A-Jay

junyer357 reply :

I prefer the avid. I dont buy the micro eye koolaid. More problems than they are worth to me. Had them on a duckett and liked the rod except for the eyes. Fished at guntersville on a freezing day and was having to dunk rod to thaw eyes every few casts was the last straw. Gave it to my dad when i got home. I found i missed eyes on occasion threading rod and dad has too as well. I was not able to run a leader either, so i ran straight flouro.

I have 2 standard avids (7'mh-f for jigs and 6'8m-xf for worms) and could not be happier with them. Both have full cork grips, which i prefer. Lightweight and sensitive, with plenty of backbone. Plus the standard avid is still lifetime warranty, only 15yr for avid x.

PatrickKnight reply :

To me the handle on the original Avid is the most comfortable I have ever used. That is reason enough for me to go that route, oh and I don't care for micro guides at all.

smalljaw67 reply :

I got a 7'ML Avid X and I did so after fishing the regular Avid side by side with the Avid X in the exact same rod. The Avid is a solid rod and I never felt blown away, it was a good rod at the $200 price point, but the Avid X really got me. I could not believe how much more responsive the rod felt with just a different guide train and split grip, the difference was so stark that I had to get in touch with St. Croix to find out if they weren't using a different blank. They told me everything is the same but they did confirm that when they were testing prototypes for the new Avid series that the guide train along with the split grip did have the same consensus among their staff when testing it. I'd say that is micro guides are a deal breaker for guys that like to use braid with a leader, that would be the only con, as I said, I fished both rods in the same length, power, and action using the same line and lure side by side and there was a noticeable difference in the way the rod handled and the feel, they didn't feel like they were even close to being the same blank.

Squali reply :

On 3/9/2017 at 8:00 PM, smalljaw67 said:

I got a 7'ML Avid X and I did so after fishing the regular Avid side by side with the Avid X in the exact same rod. The Avid is a solid rod and I never felt blown away, it was a good rod at the $200 price point, but the Avid X really got me. I could not believe how much more responsive the rod felt with just a different guide train and split grip, the difference was so stark that I had to get in touch with St. Croix to find out if they weren't using a different blank. They told me everything is the same but they did confirm that when they were testing prototypes for the new Avid series that the guide train along with the split grip did have the same consensus among their staff when testing it. I'd say that is micro guides are a deal breaker for guys that like to use braid with a leader, that would be the only con, as I said, I fished both rods in the same length, power, and action using the same line and lure side by side and there was a noticeable difference in the way the rod handled and the feel, they didn't feel like they were even close to being the same blank.

Wow ! Definitely gives me food for thought .

Thanks for the info .

Tim Kelly reply :

Micro guides make every blank feel better. The lack of weight of the traditional guides lets the blank perform better. The Avid X range is the only standard factory build St Croix I like. I have issues with the handles on the spinning rods on all their other lines. Building your own rod on St Croix blanks gives the best results, for me anyway. I might be a bit fussy!

offsidewing reply :

I own three Avid X rods. No issues with double uni knots on leaders passing through the microguides with 50lb braid. I platooned the Avid X rods against the E6X and I liked the Avid X for responsiveness and castability better. I don't get caught up on split grips too much. And to me the microguides on the Avid X seem to have some tangible benefits. The Avid and Avid X offer different features on a solid blank. I love my Avid Xs and don't feel I'm missing anything compared to an Avid.

Squali reply :

On 3/9/2017 at 7:36 PM, junyer357 said:

I prefer the avid. I dont buy the micro eye koolaid. More problems than they are worth to me. Had them on a duckett and liked the rod except for the eyes. Fished at guntersville on a freezing day and was having to dunk rod to thaw eyes every few casts was the last straw. Gave it to my dad when i got home. I found i missed eyes on occasion threading rod and dad has too as well. I was not able to run a leader either, so i ran straight flouro.

I have 2 standard avids (7'mh-f for jigs and 6'8m-xf for worms) and could not be happier with them. Both have full cork grips, which i prefer. Lightweight and sensitive, with plenty of backbone. Plus the standard avid is still lifetime warranty, only 15yr for avid x.

It's ok to drink the kola-aid .... just don't get drunk ... right. ?

I can relate to what your saying . I do like the fighting butt though , but that's not a game changer for me .

99.9 % sure that I'm going with the standard Avid . If it aint broke don't fix it !

Still good to listen to opinions.

Thanks!

Turkey sandwich reply :

I have an Avid X ML XF drop shot rod and run braid to leader. So long as you tie good, compact knots (I use uni to uni) and replace your leaders every 1-2 trips (which you should be doing anyway) you should have very very few problems with the leader knot. I feel that both the Avid and Avid X are both great rods for around $200, but the Avid X feels like a much more expensive rod.

The one valid criticism (I feel) above is about guides icing over. Microguides will freeze up faster than traditional guides and probably aren't the most ideal for super cold days. I also feel most guides on most rods - be it conventional, fly, or trolling - all tend to suck to varying degrees once it gets icy. Unless you fish primarily during those cold conditions, I wouldn't hesitate with the Avid X. Under normal conditions, they feel more like a $300 rod than a $200 rod.

Squali reply :

On 3/9/2017 at 1:47 PM, A-Jay said:

I've got the Avid X 7' ML spinner heading my way.

Should be here in the next few days or so.

Plan on it being my designated drop shot rod.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Of course, I'm still iced in pretty good up here so it'll be a few weeks or so.

A-Jay

Got your Avid X yet ?

A-Jay reply :

On 3/16/2017 at 11:45 AM, Squali said:

Got your Avid X yet ?

Yes ~ It's a very nice stick at the price point.

Like the reel seat.

Paired it with the new a new 3000 CI4+ - sweet.

A-Jay

Wild Idaho reply :

Never fished the avid but own an avid x. Absolutely love that rod. The sensitivity blew me away when I first started fishing it. Worth every penny.

Hulkster reply :

one thing that I thought was a little sneaky of St. Croix was that the Avid regular has alconite guide rings and the Avid X only has aluminum oxide guide rings according to the catalog. people bash the loomis E6X for having aluminum oxide guide rings at that price point yet the avid X is the same price point with the same guide ring material. food for thought: The Regular Avid has a better guide ring material which may result in a bit better casting.

Wild Idaho reply :

Never had a problem or issue with casting the avid x compared to my other rod collection but maybe the regular avid does better. Fished the hell out of that x last year and loved it. Maybe I should pickup a regular avid and check it out,if it's better than the x I will for surely swap it.

Steve85 reply :

Bought the avid x 6’4” m XF for jigging speckled trout in south La. Very sensitive and strong rod but one complaint... on my first trip with this rod, Caught one speckled trout and a 29” redfish and had the guide ring fall out of the tip. A new rod is on the way and hopefully this was just a one time occurrence.

dodgeguy reply :

The avid x micro guides are not even alconite. They are substandard garbage at this price. I picked a Bps Johnny Morris Patriot with Fuji sic guides over it for this reason.

Scott F reply :

On 1/5/2020 at 1:50 AM, dodgeguy said:

The avid x micro guides are not even alconite. They are substandard garbage at this price. I picked a Bps Johnny Morris Patriot with Fuji sic guides over it for this reason.

Specifically, what makes them “substandard garbage”? Garbage to me means they won’t function at all and must be thrown out. Nothing about them has effected the performance of my Avid X.

dodgeguy reply :

They are aluminum oxide inserts. I'd expect that on a $100 dollar rod.if you fish braid this may very well be an issue.They are also Kigan guides. I prefer Fuji. Would you buy a $500 rod with the same guides? I just don't think a 200 + dollar rod should come with anything less than Fuji alconites.The Fenwick HMG has Fuji alconite for $99.

Capt.Bob reply :

First off were only talking $200.00 rods, not $500!

The Fenwick HMG in the same weight and length is not as well balanced with the lighter reels, much heavier, and not as sensitive as the Avid, the Avid-X I have no experience with, I just don't see buying any rod at any price with half a handle!

I will say before someone calls me, I do own 2 Legend Extremes but they were less than 1/2 price and came with the same guides I use on my custom rods, Recoil Guides, lightest, most durable, and most sensitive guides available, but the 50 bucks to get the handles fixed made them a steel!

My Avids all 7 of them have Fuji guides. I don't own any Avid X and never entertained them just because I want full one piece cork handles, the X version turns me off with the 2 piece handle.

dodgeguy reply :

On 1/5/2020 at 11:46 AM, Capt.Bob said:

First off were only talking $200.00 rods, not $500!

The Fenwick HMG in the same weight and length is not as well balanced with the lighter reels, much heavier, and not as sensitive as the Avid, the Avid-X I have no experience with, I just don't see buying any rod at any price with half a handle!

I will say before someone calls me, I do own 2 Legend Extremes but they were less than 1/2 price and came with the same guides I use on my custom rods, Recoil Guides, lightest, most durable, and most sensitive guides available, but the 50 bucks to get the handles fixed made them a steel!

My Avids all 7 of them have Fuji guides. I don't own any Avid X and never entertained them just because I want full one piece cork handles, the X version turns me off with the 2 piece handle.

My point is for 1/2 the price it has Fuji Alconites. At the 200$ price point anything less is unacceptable IMHO. I had a rod with recoil. I really liked it a lot. Never had an issue with them. Some people claim they groove with braid. This did not happen to me..

Tim Kelly reply :

If you have $200 to build a rod for, would you rather it had more money spent on the blank or the guides? I bet it would be impossible to tell the difference between oxide linings and alconite ones in use and I expect they'd weigh a very similar amount.

garroyo130 reply :

11 hours ago, Capt.Bob said:

"First off were only talking $200.00 rods, not $500!"

... not if you look around

https://www.sierra.com/st-croix-rods-avid-x-casting-rod-medium-heavy-7-1-piece~p~859ft/?filterString=s~casting-rod%2F

dodgeguy reply :

On 1/5/2020 at 10:00 PM, Tim Kelly said:

If you have $200 to build a rod for, would you rather it had more money spent on the blank or the guides? I bet it would be impossible to tell the difference between oxide linings and alconite ones in use and I expect they'd weigh a very similar amount.

I know I'm gonna get roasted for this but my Johnny Morris Patriot Rods are in my opinion better blanks and have sic guides at 199$.

jimmyjoe reply :

On 1/5/2020 at 1:50 AM, dodgeguy said:

The avid x micro guides are not even alconite. They are substandard garbage at this price.

There are a LOT of things that go into the design of a rod other than just the guides.

Kigan guides are not "garbage", and the fact that they're not Fuji doesn't mean that they're "sub-standard". I've fished Avid-X rods for three or four years, and the guides are excellent. I also have Fenwick rods with Alconite inserts in the guides. The Avid-X is a totally different design. You might like one for your fishing needs, or you might like the other. That doesn't make one garbage compared to the other.

Another thing: you compare based on price. An American-made rod is not price-comparable to a Chinese-made rod based on price. Not the cork, not the guides, and especially not the blank. That doesn't make either one "garbage".

On 1/5/2020 at 1:50 AM, dodgeguy said:

. I picked a Bps Johnny Morris Patriot with Fuji sic guides over it for this reason.

Many people to whom I've spoken have told me that SIC guide inserts are easier to crack. In other words, they're more brittle. I've tended to avoid them for that reason.

If you chose a BPS product over a St. Croix product BASED SOLELY ON GUIDES, then I'd ask you to explain to us why you believe that guides are the most important factor in a rod: more important than action, weight, flex profile, longevity, durability and speed. There exists a forum that has many VERY knowledgeable people in the industry. Perhaps you could go there and discuss this matter with them. That forum is rodbuilding.org.

On 1/5/2020 at 9:14 PM, dodgeguy said:

At the 200$ price point anything less is unacceptable IMHO.

The Fenwick Techna rods that are on the market now don't have Fuji guides, don't even have Kigan guides. They have Seaguide guides. They cost $200 and up. I haven't heard any complaints about them.

A rod is more than just the guides. jj

Tim Kelly reply :

I expect they're Chinese blanks, where the St Croix are, or were, North American built, so there's going to be a difference in the price of the blank.

dodgeguy reply :

The Patriot is supposed to be completely American made. I've never had a Fuji sic guides fail.

Tim Kelly reply :

Fair enough. They sound like good value rods.

jimmyjoe reply :

On 1/6/2020 at 12:00 AM, dodgeguy said:

I've never had a Fuji sic guides fail.

Good for you. Just because you haven't, doesn't mean other people haven't. I never saw a Ford Pinto explode in a wreck, either, but I decided not to buy one.

Bottom line is this: If what you say about the rod you have is correct, then as I said, GOOD FOR YOU! I'm happy for you!. Congratulations! Obviously, you like that product!

And I like the products I have. Other people like the products they have. Some people rate highly products that are quite inexpensive. Other people rate highly products that are far more expensive that the ones that we have been discussing.

It's all up to the individual. There are things I don't like. And if I don't like them, I may express my opinion and say so. Once. Other people may disagree with me. They may express their opinion, too. It's happened. Quite a few times, in fact. Being an old fart, my memory is poor, but I don't remember using the word "garbage", and I don't remember someone else using the word "garbage". Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Have you visited that rodbuilding site yet? jj

WI_Angler1989 reply :

I have a couple of Avids that I bought before the X line came out and I love them! They've proven to be durable, versatile and sensitive to me and my limited experience.

That being said, if I was in the market now without any Avid.... I would get the X. The grips on the classic is a bit cumbersome (yes, I could stand them to my liking, but I haven't tried yet). I love the micro guides on my LTB even though I use braid to leader with it. So if I ran braid it wouldn't be any issue for me.

I do really like the feel, balance and look of split grips. The Avid x sort of disappears in my hand, where the Avid has sort of a bulbous grip compared to my LTB (which is very minimal).

jimmyjoe reply :

Let me add one other thing, if I may. Back at the end of '18, I thought about having a custom rod made. There was something specific I wanted. I was helped a great deal by @Mick D and @spoonplugger1. Eventually, I had a rod made by Ron Schneider down in Arkansas. It was built on a Batson blank, an IP963F, I believe. I got it about 10 months ago, and I've been using it ever since, trying out different reels and different lines.

I fish six days a week, weather permitting, and I love that rod. I absolutely love it. Fish don't get off of it. It's light, well-balanced, tough and responsive. It is by far and away the best rod I've ever handled for the price, which was less than $250. It casts really good distances (I'm a shorecaster) and it's easy to be accurate with it .... not something I associate with an eight foot rod.

It has Kigan guides. jj

dodgeguy reply :

Didn't say Kigan guides were no good. I only said aluminum oxide IMHO wasn't what I would accept at that price range.

Scott F reply :

On 1/5/2020 at 1:50 AM, dodgeguy said:

The avid x micro guides are not even alconite. They are substandard garbage at this price. I picked a Bps Johnny Morris Patriot with Fuji sic guides over it for this reason.

On 1/6/2020 at 3:18 AM, dodgeguy said:

Didn't say Kigan guides were no good. I only said aluminum oxide IMHO wasn't what I would accept at that price range.

You not only said they were no good, you called them “substandard garbage”

dodgeguy reply :

On 1/6/2020 at 4:14 AM, Scott F said:

You not only said they were no good, you called them “substandard garbage”

Reread it. I did not say Kigan guides as a entire line were not good. I said at that price point aluminum oxide guides are substandard garbage. That would be true even with Fuji guides which I love. Aluminum oxide is bottom line no matter who makes them.Aluminum oxide belongs on rods under $100 unless you just like paying to much. Would it have killed them to step up to alconite? I think not. That would have been an awesome rod with alconites.

jimmyjoe reply :

Here's the hardness of various ring inserts, and comments about the usefulness of such.

https://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,184083

Here's the forum entry that gave me the idea that SIC are brittle.

https://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,134234

And here is one discussing Kigan in particular.

https://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,417727,417736

The last entry in this post is EXTREMELY interesting.

https://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,184066,184069

Have a nice day. jj

dodgeguy reply :

On 1/6/2020 at 4:14 AM, Scott F said:

You not only said they were no good, you called them “substandard garbage”

Do you know how to read in context? I said Aluminum oxide guides are substandard garbage at that price. Nowhere in there did it say all Kigan guides are garbage. When you leave "at that price " off the sentence it is no longer in context and doesn't mean what I said. I later clarified that ANY MANUFACTURERS ALUMINUM OXIDE GUIDE WOULD BE SUBSTANDARD GARBAGE AT THAT PRICE INCLUDING FUJI. Do we get it now ? I don't care who makes the rod or the guide ALUMINUM OXIDE guides on a rod over $200 is inexcusable IMHO. I also didn't say they had to be sic. I said they should at least be alconite IMHO . ALCONITE would be fine in that range. If that rod had them I would have bought it.

Tim Kelly reply :

I'm still amused that you think there is enough difference between the lowest and second lowest tier of rod guide liners. I understand that you think they should use the more expensive components on more expensive rods, but in practise I can't tell a difference between oxide or alconite steel framed guides. Not sure if I could tell SIC steel framed guides either. Now if you go to the insanely expensive titanium torzites then there is a profound difference, but we re not talking about anything like that between oxides and alconites.

dodgeguy reply :

I've seen braid go through aluminum oxide. Never seen it go through alconite.

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