Fluorocarbon Questions. 2024
Spider reply :
First I apologize if this has been answered, I did use search.
I like the slack line sensitivity of fluorocarbon for bottom fishing, but.
I am having issues with bird nests on my bait caster, I am a long time fisherman but only recently started using bait casters. I have watched all the videos and adjusted my bait caster properly but know some of this will improve with more practice.
In one of the videos I watched here, one pro says to fill the spool with half Dacron/braid to lighten the spool? I guess that is because fluorocarbon weighs more? Also its cheaper than filling the whole spool with expensive line?
Fluorocarbons I have used, Red Label, InvizX "Didn't like the stretch". AbrazX, P-Line fluorocarbon, Berkley Vanish "Bad line IMHO" and Sunline Sniper "My favorite so far". All in 10# test. Can't justify purchasing Tatsu at this time.
My questions are, do you use mono or Dacron as backing, or just fill it up with fluorocarbon.
And any tips you might have to make the fluorocarbon more manageable. I have tried KVD L&L. This is for pretty light lures, which could be why I am having issues.
I'm just wondering what you all think.
Thank you.
Bruce424 reply :
I've tried braid as backing. Didnt like it too much. I too backlashed with that. I now use mono as backing. The fluoro I use now is mccoy 100%. Dont usually use it for light lures though
Spider reply :
On 5/8/2017 at 5:44 AM, Bruce424 said:I've tried braid as backing. Didnt like it too much. I too backlashed with that. I now use mono as backing. The fluoro I use now is mccoy 100%. Dont usually use it for light lures though
Thank you, I was wondering how braid might effect casting.
The thing is, I have spent some pretty good cash trying different lines. I would like to not repeat this for obvious reasons.
NHBull reply :
With everything you have tried, had you purchased Tatsu from the beginning you would be ahead of the game. Given you are using backing, tatsu could full your spool twice.
Watch for sales, we should be seeing some around Memorial day
Mike L reply :
I use Flouro for everything 14# to 20# except punching and frogging and love it.
I too have gone though a few and finally settled on Sniper and Shooter. I use Yo Zuri for backing but anything will work, using more for bottom contact presentation's and less for moving baits.
The trick with flouro is to start out using a premium product. If more people did that the bad rap it gets would be a lot less. Some can be expensive but the advantages far outweigh the "quirks" (for lack of a better term) that it has compared to braid and even mono, which I won't use.
Mike
wdp reply :
I fill my spool about half way with some super cheap mono before topping off the rest of the way with fluoro.
I feel your pain tho. I tried a number of fluoro lines before settling on Invizx. It is by far the easiest handling FC I've tried. Yeah it's got some stretch, but I think that's the compromise you gotta pay for getting more "manageability". Plus, I'm using it for cranking applications where stretch is needed.
Vanish is terrible line, I hated Vicious FC also. P Line Halo is by far the strongest and most sensitive of the FCs that I tried, but it's super stiff with a lotta memory, so again, tough to work with. One rat's nest on your reel & that stuff is toast. But you can get some good hook sets with it. Halo seems to be hard to find now. As is Berkley 100% FC, which was decent line, just kinda expensive.
Which again brings me back to Invizx. IMO, decent line with good price point, especially when on sale.
Another option is just use mono. A lotta Berkley Big Game fans on this forum. I just started using some 15 lb Big Game on one of my set ups for topwater. It's got relatively low stretch & handles very well. Super cheap too. Can't attest for sensitivity that much since I've only used it for topwater so far.
Glenn reply :
I've tried a number of fluoro lines as well, and have become a big fan of Tatsu. One of the main reason is that it casts like mono or co-polymer.
However, the line might not be your issue. You mentioned you're trying to throw light lures with a baitcaster. See if these tips help.
Team9nine reply :
Honestly, and don't take this wrong, but it sounds like you shouldn't be using fluorocarbon just yet until you get a better grasp of casting with a baitcaster. This will be an expensive learning curve, especially trying to begin with lighter lures. That said, just use mono backing to allow more refills per spool. Braid as backing is to decrease spool mass and startup inertia, something you don't need to worry about as a beginning baitcaster - it would likely make your current backlashing worse.
-T9
Spider reply :
On 5/8/2017 at 7:47 AM, Team9nine said:Honestly, and don't take this wrong, but it sounds like you shouldn't be using fluorocarbon just yet until you get a better grasp of casting with a baitcaster. This will be an expensive learning curve, especially trying to begin with lighter lures. That said, just use mono backing to allow more refills per spool. Braid as backing is to decrease spool mass and startup inertia, something you don't need to worry about as a beginning baitcaster - it would likely make your current backlashing worse.
-T9
I do agree with you and understand my limitations, which is why I started out with cheaper brands of fluorocarbon, to practice with "I know that was not a great decision, which is what I'm trying to rectify here". Yes it has been expensive so far. I would not be able to afford to start out with a line like Tatsu at over $50.00 for 200 yards given my level of experience. I also read someplace Tatsu also had a lot of stretch? which I was worried about.
I did not take your comment as anything but helpful.
The thing is, I can feel every detail of the bottom with fluorocarbon, every rock, branch, sandy bottom and every small bite. So feel it is an advantage.
Thank you all for your reply's, and Glen, I will view that video!
Steveo-1969 reply :
You have not mentioned any specifics about your reel or rod or the actual weight of the lures you are casting other than "pretty light lures". Definitely watch Glenn's video as he talks about the importance of the rod itself when casting light lures with a baitcaster. If you are using 10# Sunline Sniper then your line isn't causing your backlash problem.
For light baits I personally use a Medium power/Fast action rod (rated 1/8-3/8 ounce) with a smaller reel, 10# Seaguar Red Label and apply KVD L&L conditioner the night before I go fishing. My casting skills are not going to win me any competitions, but I can cast an 1/8 ounce jighead+trailer with ease, and farther than I can effectively set the hook.
Spider reply :
On 5/9/2017 at 2:03 AM, Steveo-1969 said:You have not mentioned any specifics about your reel or rod or the actual weight of the lures you are casting other than "pretty light lures". Definitely watch Glenn's video as he talks about the importance of the rod itself when casting light lures with a baitcaster. If you are using 10# Sunline Sniper then your line isn't causing your backlash problem.
For light baits I personally use a Medium power/Fast action rod (rated 1/8-3/8 ounce) with a smaller reel, 10# Seaguar Red Label and apply KVD L&L conditioner the night before I go fishing. My casting skills are not going to win me any competitions, but I can cast an 1/8 ounce jighead+trailer with ease, and farther than I can effectively set the hook.
Yeah, you are correct. I should have included the reel and rod in my post.
Lew's LFS Speed Spool SSG1HL, mag setting half way.
Dobyns FR 703C
1/8 to 1/4 oz weights.
10# Sun Line Sniper.
KVD line and lure conditioner.
I viewed the video and saw a couple of things I need to correct.
Thank you again for your input.
Steveo-1969 reply :
Thanks for the additional info. I have no experience with that rod but see it's MHF and rated for 1/4-3/4 ounce. So 1/2 ounce is probably the rod's sweet spot. Lots of guys on here will say they would have no problem casting 1/8 to 1/4 ounce lure weights with your rod but it would be difficult for me. Before my current rod I was using a rod rated 3/16-5/8 ounce to cast 1/8 ounce jighead+trailer and while it was do-able, it definitely wasn't fun. And to get any distance I had the spool tension and brakes so loose it was backlash city. For me a different rod made a huge difference!
But the next post in this thread will probably say "I have that exact rod and can cast an 1/8 ounce lure a proverbial country mile! Practice practice practice...".
Hooligan reply :
I'm a guy that uses Tatsu and Shooter, for different things. The sole purpose I use Shooter for is 1oz jigs and punching in 25lb. It's stupid strong, and has better abrasion resistance than Tatsu. Tatsu is all I use on Spinning gear, and it's what I use for ever other technique that isn't top water.
One thing that will help, as well, is to not overfill your spool. Reducing the volume reduces mass, but also reduces just how much line comes off with every revolution.
Spider reply :
On 5/9/2017 at 10:37 AM, Hooligan said:I'm a guy that uses Tatsu and Shooter, for different things. The sole purpose I use Shooter for is 1oz jigs and punching in 25lb. It's stupid strong, and has better abrasion resistance than Tatsu. Tatsu is all I use on Spinning gear, and it's what I use for ever other technique that isn't top water.
One thing that will help, as well, is to not overfill your spool. Reducing the volume reduces mass, but also reduces just how much line comes off with every revolution.
It's looking like Tatsu is the way to go. Though there is a lot to like about Snipers abrasion resistance.
Looks like it's time to save some coin.
Thank you.
Yudo1 reply :
True 1/8 is pretty light for casting gear and gets to a point where you need special spools, light or ml rods and lighter line. I'm not familiar with rod or reel, but I'll bet it's not ideal. I would think you need a 2 power dobyns for those weights.
MickD reply :
Early on the question was asked about the weight (specific gravity) of FC. It is about 50% higher than braid or mono. Comments on improved sensitivity of FC were shown objectively (data, not opinion) not long ago to be in error. FC is no more sensitive than mono. Both can vary somewhat with formulation, but to go through the expense and frustrations of trying to use FC for sensitivity is not backed by science.
If new to BC your best bet, IMHO, is to simply use about 14 pound test name brand mono until casting becomes second nature to you. Then if you want more sensitivity, go with 35-50 pound braid with a FC (leader grade) leader of about 15-20 pound test.
My position on starting with a premium grade of FC to avoid the frustrations is that you very well may sink a lot of money and still not be significantly further ahead. I don't know if the premiums are tougher than the normal "name brands" that I've used, but if not you could lose about $25 worth (half a spool) of premium FC on your first backlash. And there will be backlashes. FC is very susceptible to being broken while trying to get a backlash out, unlike mono or braid.
WRB reply :
Why use fluorocarbon line? All brands of FC line have issues because it's water proof and has a tendency to spring off the spool creating a backlash. Line conditioner that helps wet the line will improve your casting with FC line. I use Tangle Free and KVD L & L will also wet the line.
I suggest using mono like BIg Game 10 or 12 lb to start with and use as a 50 yard backing for the more expensive FC line. 10 or 12 lb Sniper orBig Game is a good choice for lures between 3/16 oz to 3/4 oz.
Tom
Team9nine reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 12:53 AM, MickD said:Early on the question was asked about the weight (specific gravity) of FC. It is about 50% higher than braid or mono. Comments on improved sensitivity of FC were shown objectively (data, not opinion) not long ago to be in error. FC is no more sensitive than mono. Both can vary somewhat with formulation, but to go through the expense and frustrations of trying to use FC for sensitivity is not backed by science.
You know you're not getting off the hook on this one without providing a link to the study/report or some type data and source for those comments 
J Francho reply :
I'm getting the popcorn....
I'd like to see that data as well.
Team9nine reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 1:05 AM, WRB said:Why use fluorocarbon line? All brands of FC line have issues because it's water proof and has a tendency to spring off the spool creating a backlash. Line conditioner that helps wet the line will improve your casting with FC line. I use Tangle Free and KVD L & L will also wet the line.
I suggest using mono like BIg Game 10 or 12 lb to start with and use as a 50 yard backing for the more expensive FC line. 10 or 12 lb Sniper orBig Game is a good choice for lures between 3/16 oz to 3/4 oz.
Tom
To keep it fair, we should also include the statements...
Why use nylon line? all brands of nylon lines have issues...
and
Why use braided line? All brands of braided lines have issues...
in any applicable posts.
Edit: I think I get your context here though after reading your post a couple more times 
RichF reply :
On 5/9/2017 at 11:51 PM, Spider said:It's looking like Tatsu is the way to go. Though there is a lot to like about Snipers abrasion resistance.
Looks like it's time to save some coin.
Thank you.
I've never used Tatsu and unless I can get it for half off, I'll continue to never use it. I'd just continue to practice with your baitcaster. There are plenty of Fluoros out there that work incredibly well at a fraction of the price of Tatsu. I have no doubt that it's good line but $50 for 200 yds is obnoxious. Get really good at casting and you can have your pick of the litter.
Ads7633 reply :
On 5/8/2017 at 5:32 AM, Spider said:First I apologize if this has been answered, I did use search.
I like the slack line sensitivity of fluorocarbon for bottom fishing, but.
I am having issues with bird nests on my bait caster, I am a long time fisherman but only recently started using bait casters. I have watched all the videos and adjusted my bait caster properly but know some of this will improve with more practice.
In one of the videos I watched here, one pro says to fill the spool with half Dacron/braid to lighten the spool? I guess that is because fluorocarbon weighs more? Also its cheaper than filling the whole spool with expensive line?
Fluorocarbons I have used, Red Label, InvizX "Didn't like the stretch". AbrazX, P-Line fluorocarbon, Berkley Vanish "Bad line IMHO" and Sunline Sniper "My favorite so far". All in 10# test. Can't justify purchasing Tatsu at this time.
My questions are, do you use mono or Dacron as backing, or just fill it up with fluorocarbon.
And any tips you might have to make the fluorocarbon more manageable. I have tried KVD L&L. This is for pretty light lures, which could be why I am having issues.
I'm just wondering what you all think.
Thank you.
Here is a tip while you are learning that helped me. Put a heavy bait on your rod and cast it as far as you can in the backyard. Then pull out a few more yards of line after that. Then place a small piece of electrical tape on the line that is still on the spool. Then reel all your line back up. This way when you have a backlash it will only go as deep as the electrical tape. This was a great way for me to learn how to use a baitcaster with flouro without having to buy a new spool of line every time I had a bad birds nest. Eventually you won't need the tape anymore. Just a thought that worked for me.
Steveo-1969 reply :
On 5/9/2017 at 11:51 PM, Spider said:It's looking like Tatsu is the way to go. Though there is a lot to like about Snipers abrasion resistance.
Looks like it's time to save some coin.
Thank you.
On 5/10/2017 at 12:23 AM, Yudo1 said:True 1/8 is pretty light for casting gear and gets to a point where you need special spools, light or ml rods and lighter line. I'm not familiar with rod or reel, but I'll bet it's not ideal. I would think you need a 2 power dobyns for those weights.
Mr. Spider sir. Buying Seaguar Tatsu is not going to allow you to cast an 1/8 ounce bait with your MHF rod (rated 1/4-3/4 ounce) backlash free. The line isn't the problem, it's your rod. It just doesn't load up enough to cast effectively. I would hate to see you drop $40 on Tatsu, get the same results and feel the BR community misled you.
I suggest you use heavier baits on your baitcaster with any line you choose and fish the lighter baits on one of your spinning rods.
Spider reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 3:23 AM, Ads7633 said:Here is a tip while you are learning that helped me. Put a heavy bait on your rod and cast it as far as you can in the backyard. Then pull out a few more yards of line after that. Then place a small piece of electrical tape on the line that is still on the spool. Then reel all your line back up. This way when you have a backlash it will only go as deep as the electrical tape. This was a great way for me to learn how to use a baitcaster with flouro without having to buy a new spool of line every time I had a bad birds nest. Eventually you won't need the tape anymore. Just a thought that worked for me.
Great tip, TUVM.
MickD reply :
I'll try to find the post on sensitivity, was right here, would have been under this topic. I might add that the term "slack line sensitivity" is sort of fascinating. Think about how sensitive any slack line is. Then try to differentiate between any two types of line, when they are slack.
I know that each line has its strengths and weaknesses, but if someone just starting out with baitcasters wants to spend a lot of money trying lots of lines, encounter many frustrations, to find the nirvanna of lines then FC is just what the Dr. ordered. Every proponent of FC on this forum seems to have his favorite FC that solves the problems of the others. And most people's favorites are not the same as other people's favorites.
Spider reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 3:35 AM, Steveo-1969 said:
Mr. Spider sir. Buying Seaguar Tatsu is not going to allow you to cast an 1/8 ounce bait with your MHF rod (rated 1/4-3/4 ounce) backlash free. The line isn't the problem, it's your rod. It just doesn't load up enough to cast effectively. I would hate to see you drop $40 on Tatsu, get the same results and feel the BR community misled you.
I suggest you use heavier baits on your baitcaster with any line you choose and fish the lighter baits on one of your spinning rods.
I won't blame anyone here if I fail. It's part of the learning curve, and one of the reasons I like fishing so much.
It looks like time to break out the spinning gear for the light stuff, and use the bait caster for the bigger stuff.
I appreciate all that chimed in.
And look forward to that sensitivity test. From what I have read, fluorocarbon is twice as dense as mono which transmits feel better. If this is wrong I apologize.
Mike L reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 5:23 AM, Spider said:
And look forward to that sensitivity test. From what I have read, fluorocarbon is twice as dense as mono which transmits feel better. If this is wrong I apologize.
Don't know if it's twice as dense, but you are not wrong.
Mike
MickD reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 1:13 AM, Team9nine said:
You know you're not getting off the hook on this one without providing a link to the study/report or some type data and source for those comments
I cannot find the post on this forum, although I believe it was here. Maybe the author will see this string and chime in. I have a pretty good line test link, will give it below. I think I was, as I think most people do, equating sensitivity with stretch. Both mono and FC stretch about the same as a percentage of the line length, with mono being toward the high end of the distribution, so you might say it stretches more than FC. But you'll find FC's that stretch more than monos and vice versa. The data is for stretch at breaking point, which really is irrelevant, but I did find an article that measured stretch at low forces and it concluded the same thing: difference is small, but the FC distribution is a little higher than mono.
But I don't believe there is an objective "sensitivity" test. If FC seems more sensitive than mono, then use it. I also doubt if there is an objective test for "pain in the ass," but to me, FC is a bigger pain in the ass with little offsetting advantage (for a line, not leader).
In the article below there is discussion on sensitivity, and what the author thinks the differences in material characteristics (like density) have on perceived sensitivity, but it's opinion and judgment again. It could be that if I used really stiff rods for finesse fishing I might sense a sensitivity difference between mono and FC, but my heaviest power rod is a medium heavy mega bass that I use for baitcasting for salmon and pike, and sensitivity is not an issue there.
I conclude with the comment that if sensitivity is really a priority, then the obvious solution is braid. And braid casts pretty well too.
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/gallery/gear/2014/11/line-test#page-11
Team9nine reply :
On 5/10/2017 at 5:53 AM, Mike L said:
Don't know if it's twice as dense, but you are not wrong.
Mike
1.85X +/- .02 depending upon brand specifics, but who's counting 
WRB reply :
What is line sensitivity? Vibrations moving up the line through water? Line moving away from you increasing tension, then towards you decreasing tension?
Vibration is a sine wave form that can't travel through water on line because water dampens all vibrations on line, the water is too dense.
Line movements can be felt and detected visually, good example is a deep diving crankbait wobbling back and forth moving the line away from you. If you have slack in the line the movements must move the line enough to take out the slack or there isn't any movement to detect.
Fluorocarbon line has less coeffient of drag going through water so it takes less force to take the slack out of the line to detect movement. Because FC is heavier than nylon, FC line tends to have less bow in the line of equal diameter going through water. Less bow equal shorter distance between you and the lure, less line with less drag allows you to detect movement easier. We feel or see the line move and call that sensitivity.
Tom
sully420 reply :
You need a cranking rod or a rod that has a slower action to throw baits under 1/4 oz or use spinning gear with floro leader. Dont buy tatsu sniper is the way to go.
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