Facts of Fishing 2024
Tim Kelly reply :
I don't know if any of you watched the recent Facts of Fishing where Mercer was fishing a Neko rig, but the part that really stood out to me was how ridiculously visible his fluorocarbon leader was in the underwater shots. Definitely gives pause for thought about why we use fluorocarbon. Be interested to see the same shots with a mono leader, can't believe it would have been much more visible!
68camaro reply :
I really like his shows, interesting take on flouro, I wonder if color matters.
I used to get frustrated by how long pitching took to get bites until watching his shows, in several of his shows he was averaging one every 27-30 casts, this has taught me to be more patience and persevere.
12poundbass reply :
I've often wondered the exact same thing, and have noticed this many times as well. I honestly don't put a whole lot of stock in the being or needing to be virtually invisible.
Tim Kelly reply :
I never thought it would be "invisible" as is often touted, but being as visible as it was really surprised me. Hard to believe straight braid would have been significantly more visible!
CroakHunter reply :
Here's my question. How do we know that to fish, fluorocarbon doesn't glow like a lightning bug? Or that black actually looks orange? Etc.
12poundbass reply :
On 2/3/2018 at 10:10 PM, CroakHunter said:Here's my question. How do we know that to fish, fluorocarbon doesn't glow like a lightning bug? Or that black actually looks orange? Etc.
That's easy....the manufacturers say it's virtually invisible, so it's gotta be right? ????
Tim Kelly reply :
We don't, any more than that the shade I call blue you see as what I call orange.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I don't worry about it anymore. The only reason I fish Fluorocarbon now is if I need a line that sinks. I only use a leader with braid if I need the abrasion resistance, otherwise it's straight braid, even in clear water.
A-Jay reply :
I'm with @Bluebasser86 on this one.
Mostly anyway. Exception being I'll use a leader with braid more often than not and it's almost always mono.
A clear or green Big Game leader has accounted for at least one or two.
A-Jay
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 2/3/2018 at 10:47 PM, A-Jay said:I'm with @Bluebasser86 on this one.
Mostly anyway. Exception being I'll use a leader with braid more often than not and it's almost always mono.
A clear or green Big Game leader has accounted for at least one or two.
A-Jay
That was another caveat to what I was saying, when I do use a leader, it's always mono or copoly.
12poundbass reply :
On a side note is it just me or does it seem that the production and editing has been 'cheapened' up a little this season? I see he's lost a few big sponsors maybe that's the reason. It just doesn't seen the same as previous years.
scaleface reply :
If I get paranoid about line visibility , I use the sharpie trick and camouflage it . I think it works but dont know for sure .
Tim Kelly reply :
I had an experience a few years ago fishing for zander (walleye) in 90ft of clear water. I was fishing vertical with a friend and good angler next to me also fishing vertical, so his bait was no more than 10ft from mine all day. I was getting 5x the bites he was getting, so he swapped to the same bait. I continued to get 5x the number of bites. Eventually he was persuaded to take off his very fine steel leader (in case a pike came along) and put on a fluoro leader. Suddenly he was getting the same number of bites as me. Since that experience, which was about as absolute as I've ever managed to prove in fishing, I've been very paranoid about fishing a long fine fluoro or mono leader.
I expect a lot of times it doesn't matter and if they're looking at the line rather than the bait you're not going to catch them anyway, but it did seem to me that sometimes it makes a big difference having a leader on, which was why I was so surprised how visible the leader was in that situation on FOF.
Team9nine reply :
Can't stand him - won't watch...and he doesn't have a clue what structure is 
oh, and yes, I use a leader with braid about 80% of the time, both fluoro (mostly) and nylon, for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with visibility.
LCG reply :
I think fluorocarbon may help in super clear water but most situations I would not worry. I use braid and will use a leader but switched to mono due to ease of knots and price. Dirty water sometimes no leader. If the braid gets frayed then I use a leader. Plus it saves money on the braid.
NorcalBassin reply :
On 2/3/2018 at 11:04 PM, 12poundbass said:On a side note is it just me or does it seem that the production and editing has been 'cheapened' up a little this season? I see he's lost a few big sponsors maybe that's the reason. It just doesn't seen the same as previous years.
I've noticed that same thing and it's admittedly weird not hearing him manage up all the Shimano gear. It seems like some rod/reel manufacturer would have been more than happy to sponsor the show since it's relatively popular.
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/3/2018 at 10:10 PM, CroakHunter said:Here's my question. How do we know that to fish, fluorocarbon doesn't glow like a lightning bug? Or that black actually looks orange? Etc.
We know how fish see the same way we know most things, (except maybe FISA courts). By the results of scientific research in the subject. There is a bunch of academic papers on fish anatomy, and all their sensory systems.
MIbassyaker reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 1:02 AM, reason said:We know how fish see the same way we know most things, (except maybe FISA courts). By the results of scientific research in the subject. There is a bunch of academic papers on fish anatomy, and all their sensory systems.
^ this.
Bass have a visual system that is typical of most vertebrates, which is to say their eyes function largely the same way ours do, using the same sorts of anatomical components and processes. We know from visual discrimination learning experiments (for instance, a bass is rewarded with food for approaching one stimulus and punished with a shock for approaching a different stimulus) that they can distinguish all colors between blue and red on the visible spectrum, but are best in red and green portions. There are some aspects of bass vision that are probably better than ours, like detecting motion (they are exceptional at this), but their visual systems do not violate well-understood laws of physics. We can be pretty sure anything that would "glow" to a bass (e.g., fluorescence, phosphorescence, bioluminescence) would also appear to glow to us under the same environmental conditions.
However, in the end it matters less whether they can see the line, and it matters more whether they care.
Tim Kelly reply :
On 2/3/2018 at 10:47 PM, A-Jay said:I'm with @Bluebasser86 on this one.
Mostly anyway. Exception being I'll use a leader with braid more often than not and it's almost always mono.
A clear or green Big Game leader has accounted for at least one or two.
A-Jay
The advantage I find with FC over mono is that is doesn't absorb water, so stays more consistent. Mono seems to be noticeably softer, and maybe weaker after you've been fishing it a while and it is saturated.
A-Jay reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 4:09 AM, Tim Kelly said:The advantage I find with FC over mono is that is doesn't absorb water, so stays more consistent. Mono seems to be noticeably softer, and maybe weaker after you've been fishing it a while and it is saturated.
Interesting take.
I'll tell you that my own experiences says ~ Not a chance.
If anything mono actually gets stronger with some use - give it a half way decent strain and it's good to go.
Either way - we're both catch fish with what we use and that's all that really matters.
A-Jay
Tim Kelly reply :
We do. 
I notice the difference when tying knots. It seems to snug down less convincingly with wet mono.
A-Jay reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 4:19 AM, Tim Kelly said:We do.
I notice the difference when tying knots. It seems to snug down less convincingly with wet mono.
And every knot I tie with Fluorocarbon seems like a 'Might Knot'.
Might hold - Might not.
But that's just because I'm a knuckle head.
A-Jay
WRB reply :
Fluorocarbon line has the same refraction of light as water therefore it's less visible to the human eye.
Fluorocarbon line is heavier then Nylon, polyester or polyuerathane polymers therefore it sinks faster.
Flurocarbon has less coeffient of drag in water then braid or other monofilament lines, therefore less bow in the line, better feedback on the lure.
Those were the reasons I started using Fluorocarbon line 20 years ago. The reason I stopped using fluorocarbon line is random knot failure resulting in loosing big bass.
The fact I caught hundreds of big bass using mono line proves it works, reliable knot strength, better abrasion resistance, better impact strength, better cast ability and bass don't shy away from mono line.
If you believe FC line gives you an advantage use it.
Tom
BassWhole! reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 4:48 AM, A-Jay said:And every knot I tie with Fluorocarbon seems like a 'Might Knot'.
Might hold - Might not.
But that's just because I'm a knuckle head.
A-Jay
No might about it, the best fluorocarbon knot is fluorcarbon not, and I do, I mean don't....
Team9nine reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 4:14 AM, A-Jay said:Interesting take.
I'll tell you that my own experiences says ~ Not a chance.
If anything mono actually gets stronger with some use - give it a half way decent strain and it's good to go.
Either way - we're both catch fish with what we use and that's all that really matters.
A-Jay
Nope - Tim's right on this one. Once nylon absorbs water, it's amount of stretch, abrasion resistance and breaking strength all take a pretty good hit (15-50%)...but as you said, whatever works for each of us. All lines have negatives and trade-offs. Each of us places a different value system on those factors.
WRB reply :
I don’t know if anyone on this site has ever processed extruded nylon line or parts? I have and often Nylon uses cold water to cross link the polymer following processing to strengthen it. Hygroscopic degradation from moisture during the melt cycle unzipping the polymer is different from moisture absorbsion after the polymer has been processed.
Tom
The Bassman reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 12:44 PM, WRB said:I don’t know if anyone on this site has ever processed extruded nylon line or parts? I have and often Nylon uses cold water to cross link the polymer following processing to strengthen it. Hygroscopic degradation from moisture during the melt cycle unzipping the polymer is different from moisture absorbsion after the polymer has been processed.
Tom
Team9nine reply :
On 2/4/2018 at 12:44 PM, WRB said:I don’t know if anyone on this site has ever processed extruded nylon line or parts? I have and often Nylon uses cold water to cross link the polymer following processing to strengthen it. Hygroscopic degradation from moisture during the melt cycle unzipping the polymer is different from moisture absorbsion after the polymer has been processed.
Tom
OK, different types or timing of moisture absorption involved, but after all the fancy talk, what say you to the question on the table: "Yes," nylon based fishing line gets stronger (higher breaking strength) after absorbing water, or "No," it gets weaker (lower breaking strength) after water absorption? I guess you could also go with 'C', there is no difference between wet or dry breaking strength.
The Jeopardy music begins now...
Crestliner2008 reply :
All I know is that I believe what Buck Perry said.....in that he wanted the fish to see his line.....so that it would direct them to his lures! I use a fluoro leader with braid mostly for the abrasion resistance and as a shock absorber. Right, wrong or indifferent.....it has worked for me for many decades.
WRB reply :
The only brand of mono that I personally experienced changing color from translucent green to milky white was P-Line CXX after several hours of use. The milky white color would dry out in about 24 hrs. Never tested CXX other then checking my knots strength, but the color shift bothered me enough to stop using it.
I am sure various mfr's of line use different UV inhibitors and polymer blends that perform differently from each other and why we each have our favorites.
Because I prefer using smaller diameter monofilament line to make longer casts like 10 to 12 lb for jigs and worms the knot strength becomes more critical.
Tom
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