Extra fast vs. Fast 2025
JigMe reply :
Yesterday during my lunch break at applebees, my co-workers and I had a big discussion about extra fast or fast tip for a worm rod. I don't think anyone won the battle on that one.
With extra fast tip, there is more sensitivity and quicker response when setting the hook. But the extra fast tip makes it harder to fight the fight. With fast tip, it is less sensitive than an extra fast but it has a better backbone power.
So, what do you guys think? Extra fast or fast for a worm rod?
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
For starters, the action listed on a rod is subjective, so what the maker considers fast or x-fast can vary. Also, the the fast and extra fast could have similar backbone. Each design has its time and place. If you're fishing small weightless worms, a faster tip might be an advantage. You typically see the XF tips on Drop-Shot and other finesse applications. For everyday T-rig worm fishing a MH/fast action rod is fine. This is largely another case of preference, so there really can't be a winner in this argument.
Raul reply :
QuoteYesterday during my lunch break at applebees, my co-workers and I had a big discussion about extra fast or fast tip for a worm rod. I don't think anyone won the battle on that one.With extra fast tip, there is more sensitivity and quicker response when setting the hook. But the extra fast tip makes it harder to fight the fight. With fast tip, it is less sensitive than an extra fast but it has a better backbone power.
So, what do you guys think? Extra fast or fast for a worm rod?
You are mixing or trying to mix different parameters sensitivity, response, backbone and power throwing them into the pot, stirring and trying to get a result to prove a point when they should be analized independently.
Sensitivity has nothing to do with tip speed, sensitivity depends on density of the blank material and the line material.
Here it 's a matter of response, for worming you get speedier hooksets with an extra fast rod
Backbone is obtained by how the blank was built and from where along it 's length the blank bends.
How easy or hard it is to fight the fish doesn 't depend on the tip speed, it depnds on the power of the rod.
You can have a multitude of variable in a blank reason why different rods behave differently. There is no winner in the discusiion.
flechero reply :
QuoteFor starters, the action listed on a rod is subjective, so what the maker considers fast or x-fast can vary.
And to the point that some company's fast is actually faster than another company's Xfast.
Bottom line is that it's personal preference. You can make intelligent arguments for either one... and there are subtle advantages and disadvantages to both. The reason that there is a debate is that both are good choices in this application.
JigMe reply :
QuoteQuoteYesterday during my lunch break at applebees, my co-workers and I had a big discussion about extra fast or fast tip for a worm rod. I don't think anyone won the battle on that one.With extra fast tip, there is more sensitivity and quicker response when setting the hook. But the extra fast tip makes it harder to fight the fight. With fast tip, it is less sensitive than an extra fast but it has a better backbone power.
So, what do you guys think? Extra fast or fast for a worm rod?
You are mixing or trying to mix different parameters sensitivity, response, backbone and power throwing them into the pot, stirring and trying to get a result to prove a point when they should be analized independently.
Sensitivity has nothing to do with tip speed, sensitivity depends on density of the blank material and the line material.
Here it 's a matter of response, for worming you get speedier hooksets with an extra fast rod
Backbone is obtained by how the blank was built and from where along it 's length the blank bends.
How easy or hard it is to fight the fish doesn 't depend on the tip speed, it depnds on the power of the rod.
You can have a multitude of variable in a blank reason why different rods behave differently. There is no winner in the discusiion.
thanks for the info
J Francho reply :
Red flags go off in my mind when someone says that a rod is more sensitive because is has a softer tip. These are guys that tip watch. I see it all the time in my kayak fishing classes. They get a bite, and instead of setting the hook, they look at the tip to see if its "alive." By the time they get around to setting the hook, half the time the fish is gone.
JigMe reply :
QuoteRed flags go off in my mind when someone says that a rod is more sensitive because is has a softer tip. These are guys that tip watch. I see it all the time in my kayak fishing classes. They get a bite, and instead of setting the hook, they look at the tip to see if its "alive." By the time they get around to setting the hook, half the time the fish is gone.
LOL, OMG. That's so me...Maybe, I need to take one of your classes..haha
J Francho reply :
Just loosen your grip when fishing contact or drop baits - jigs, plastics. Watch your line, not the tip. Trust your senses - hooksets are free.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
QuoteRed flags go off in my mind when someone says that a rod is more sensitive because is has a softer tip. These are guys that tip watch. I see it all the time in my kayak fishing classes. They get a bite, and instead of setting the hook, they look at the tip to see if its "alive." By the time they get around to setting the hook, half the time the fish is gone.
Then you have those that don't watch the tip or the line and try to do everything by feel. You'll miss bites this way too, no matter what rod you're using.
J Francho reply :
I disagree, anything that moves the tip, and you can't feel it -- something's not normal there. The person has a sensory issue, or the rod is really crappy. At least with typical bass gear, anyway. I know I've caught and lost more than a few trout on the pin that I would have never known bit, even if the rod was bent over. That has more to do with the cold, LOL.
Tin reply :
Extra fast medium spinning = drop shot, 1/8oz tube, wacky rig
Fast Spinning = light weight t-rig, light weight jig, hard jerkbait, fluke(skipping)
I use extra-fast with small wire hooks.
Tin reply :
QuoteI disagree, anything that moves the tip, and you can't feel it -- something's not normal there.
Yup, I usually have a finger on the blank, doesn't matter if I'm using casting or spinning.
BASSclary reply :
QuoteRed flags go off in my mind when someone says that a rod is more sensitive because is has a softer tip. These are guys that tip watch. I see it all the time in my kayak fishing classes. They get a bite, and instead of setting the hook, they look at the tip to see if its "alive." By the time they get around to setting the hook, half the time the fish is gone.
So an XF would be stiffer tip, and a F would be a softer tip?
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
QuoteQuoteRed flags go off in my mind when someone says that a rod is more sensitive because is has a softer tip. These are guys that tip watch. I see it all the time in my kayak fishing classes. They get a bite, and instead of setting the hook, they look at the tip to see if its "alive." By the time they get around to setting the hook, half the time the fish is gone.So an XF would be stiffer tip, and a F would be a softer tip?
I guess so, depending on your terminology. Like Flechero said, it's going to depend on the company.
Using the same company in the same line of rods, typically XF bends closer to the tip, F further down the blank....all the way down to Mod (like a crankbait rod).
flechero reply :
QuoteSo an XF would be stiffer tip, and a F would be a softer tip?
No, the XF has the"shorter" and lighter tip, but the backbone comes up further in the blank.
Who has the action diagram to post here?
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
QuoteQuoteSo an XF would be stiffer tip, and a F would be a softer tip?No, the XF has the"shorter" and lighter tip, but the backbone comes up further in the blank.
Who has the action diagram to post here?
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
Quotehere it is...
Oh, I see how it is. You custom rod guys think you're so cool...apparently mine was not good enough. 
;D
BASSclary reply :
But which tip is softer, like easier to bend.
I already knew where rods bent per action
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
QuoteBut which tip is softer, like easier to bend.I already knew where rods bent per action
BC, it sounds like you are looking more at "power" than "action" maybe? A ML power rod will be easier to bend than a H action rod.
If not, I dont know that you will find a "softer" tip definition. The Moderate rod shown above will likely bend easier than the XF.
Why are you looking for a "soft" tip? Benefits you have read or experiences?
JigMe reply :
QuoteBut which tip is softer, like easier to bend.I already knew where rods bent per action
hmm..what's action got to do with bending?
BASSclary reply :
I thought that if you had two, say, 7' M power rods, with different actions, that one tip would bend easier? :-?
And its not that I read of magical powers in soft tips, Its just I've never really understood if tips can be softer.
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
QuoteI thought that if you had two, say, 7' M power rods, with different actions, that one tip would bend easier? :-?And its not that I read of magical powers in soft tips, Its just I've never really understood if tips can be softer.
I guess one may feel like it bends easier, but it may be that you are feeling the different points through the blank where they bend.
To bend a XF tip to a certain point and a Mod tip to that exact point would seem easier I suppose...
I'm friggin' lost. ;D
senile1 reply :
QuoteI disagree, anything that moves the tip, and you can't feel it -- something's not normal there. The person has a sensory issue, or the rod is really crappy. At least with typical bass gear, anyway. I know I've caught and lost more than a few trout on the pin that I would have never known bit, even if the rod was bent over. That has more to do with the cold, LOL.
He did say "Then you have those that don't watch the tip or the line and try to do everything by feel." If the tip moves I agree that you should feel it, but I have seen the line move without any vibration reaching the tip so line movement is another matter. In that case, you should be a line watcher or you will miss fish.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
That was my point. You need to watch what's going on, not at the tip, but at the line.
J Francho reply :
QuoteQuoteI disagree, anything that moves the tip, and you can't feel it -- something's not normal there. The person has a sensory issue, or the rod is really crappy. At least with typical bass gear, anyway. I know I've caught and lost more than a few trout on the pin that I would have never known bit, even if the rod was bent over. That has more to do with the cold, LOL.He did say "Then you have those that don't watch the tip or the line and try to do everything by feel." If the tip moves I agree that you should feel it, but I have seen the line move without any vibration reaching the tip so line movement is another matter. In that case, you should be a line watcher or you will miss fish.
Read ALL the posts
QuoteJust loosen your grip when fishing contact or drop baits - jigs, plastics. Watch your line, not the tip. Trust your senses - hooksets are free.
J Francho reply :
QuoteThat was my point. You need to watch what's going on, not at the tip, but at the line.
I thought you saidit the other way around....NP.
K_Mac reply :
QuoteBut which tip is softer, like easier to bend.I already knew where rods bent per action
The XF will feel softer and load up quicker with light baits in my experience. My PQ 7' MXF is my favorite baitcast rod.
Locked reply :
I thought it was common sense to watch the line. If something is pulling with enough force to bend your rod tip and you can't feel it, there is something wrong.
00 mod reply :
This might help some!
http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1141187546/0
flechero reply :
The XF has the softer tip- which is why it bends "quicker" or "faster" than the fast, with the same amount of pressure applied.
flechero reply :
QuoteQuotehere it is...Oh, I see how it is. You custom rod guys think you're so cool...apparently mine was not good enough.
;Dnot exactly ...lol
there was a delay of about 10 minutes before I hit post on that- when I saw your chart I deleted mine... the hazards of posting from work.
BASSclary reply :
QuoteThe XF has the softer tip- which is why it bends "quicker" or "faster" than the fast, with the same amount of pressure applied.
Thats what I thought, until a while ago I said something like that and was told I had it backwards.
J Francho reply :
It really depends on the model. I have a Kistler DS spinning rod that has a silly soft tip, but a medium power that's a lot more hefty than any mediums I own. Now, all my Avid XF rods, AVC62MXF, AVC68MXF, AVS63MLXF are a bit stiller, even the ML spinner. They all still only really load up on the top 10" or so, but the Kistler is so fast, its almost not suitable for anything other than straight drops.
Raul reply :
One of the problems with action and power rating begins right when you begin trying to compare brand X with brand Y, they may be rated equally but in reality they are completely different animals, even if they were manufactured by the same company ( case: GLoomis/ Shimano )
Let 's put this example, I used to own a Kistler Mag TS MH All Pupose rod, I also own a MBR783C IMX.
Sensitivity ---> IMX
Ligntness ---> IMX
Power ---> rating might be the same but the Kistler had a lot more power than the GLoomis
Action ---> both rated Fast, the Kistler had a firmer tip.
I own a Shimano Crucial M 6 '6 ( CR66M ) spinning rod, also own a GLoomis SJR782 GL2( same length and in theory same power and action )
So both rods are made by the same company, both are same length, action and power rating so they should be pretty much the same in theory, the truth is, the SJR782 feels like a noodle right next to the Crucial.
So comparisons have a part of subjectiveness and a part of measurability and the subjective part is the tricky oart.
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