FLW says goodbye to co anglers 2025
BassNJake reply :
FLW released its 2019 schedule and had a press conference detailing the rule changes.
There will be no co-anglers in 2019 they will be replaced with marshals.
The marshals will be eligible to win prizes based on the pro's they are paired with.
One marshal will win a new ranger at the end of the year.
Flw will also go to a qualifying system in 2020 to select the 150 pro's instead of the current priority entry system they use now.
More details at FLW .
Thoughts ......?
TOXIC reply :
Not a fan of the no co-angler rule change. It just goes to show you that the co-anglers are not the amatures they make them out to be. They had to have lost a good revenue stream from that change. Likewise their venues will lose a lot of revenue from the co's booking rooms and traveling in to stay in hotels, food, pre-fish etc. The marshals will be like the elites and just be locals who want to get another perspective on their water. Dangling a carrot to be able to win cash and possibly a boat is no more than selling raffle tickets where you have to be present to win. I've always said that the coanglers were not the newbs they were made out to be and many, many of them could compete from the front as well.
Logan S reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 8:53 PM, TOXIC said:They had to have lost a good revenue stream from that change. Likewise their venues will lose a lot of revenue from the co's booking rooms and traveling in to stay in hotels, food, pre-fish etc.
I doubt that, if it hurt their bottom line they probably wouldn't do it...The Marshal fee will likely be the same or similar to the co-angler entry fees and all the Marshals will still be booking rooms and all that other stuff. They also won't have to pay out winnings to the co-angler field. The money aspect is probably a wash for FLW.
I don't think a professional level tour should have co-anglers, so to me this is a good move for FLW. BASS Opens and FLW Costa are still high-level tours for co-anglers to compete in.
I think the prize stuff is kind of cool. I wouldn't really be interested in marshaling for FLW normally, but with that added I might do it...It's obviously like a raffle or lottery, but it's enough to make me think about doing it if they come to a local spot.
Jrob78 reply :
This is a good move, tour level pro anglers shouldn't have to compete with someone fishing out of the back of their boat. I'm sure the pros are happy about this and it might even keep a few of the top guys from jumping to BASS first chance they get.
Tennessee Boy reply :
I think this is a good move. There is one thing in the announcement that I found very odd.
"Marshals will be eligible for a top cash award of $2,500 at each regular-season FLW Tour stop based on the combined weight of the pros they are randomly paired with."
Isn't the marshal in the boat to keep the Angler honest? Does it make sense to reward the marshal based on the angler's performance? I don't think cheating is a problem at this level and $2,500 to the top marshal is not a lot of money but still I don't get it.
Todd2 reply :
???? ..I probably follow the pros less than anyone on this forum, I want to care, I just don't.
BigAngus752 reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 10:39 PM, Tennessee Boy said:
Isn't the marshal in the boat to keep the Angler honest? Does it make sense to reward the marshal based on the angler's performance?
^^^this^^^
I would bet an entire paycheck that no one will every cheat in this situation...but that's not the point. I have been a police officer for 27 years. If I was to receive a $2500 bonus at the end of the week for having the most arrests would I arrest more people that week? Absolutely not. My job is to be fair, help those that need help, and search for justice for all. I do my best to follow 1Thessalonians 5:14-15 every day that I work. At the end of the week if I had the most arrests and I got $2500 cash would that put doubt in some peoples minds? Yes. Most importantly, would it have accomplished any positive benefit? I don't think so. People will want to be marshal's without the questionable prizes. I know I would do it!
Tennessee Boy reply :
I know there are people on BR that have been a marshal. I would love to know more about what their role and responsibilities are. For example, if a guy pulls up close to a dam and starts to take is life jacket off. Is it okay for the marshal to remind him that is illegal? Is the marshal suppose to report him if he takes if off?
BassNJake reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 10:39 PM, Tennessee Boy said:I think this is a good move. There is one thing in the announcement that I found very odd.
"Marshals will be eligible for a top cash award of $2,500 at each regular-season FLW Tour stop based on the combined weight of the pros they are randomly paired with."
Isn't the marshal in the boat to keep the Angler honest? Does it make sense to reward the marshal based on the angler's performance? I don't think cheating is a problem at this level and $2,500 to the top marshal is not a lot of money but still I don't get it.
My guess is that there are 0 pro's that would throw away their chance at $120,000 to help their marshal win the $2500.
Plus kicked off tour, loss of sponsors and the black cloud that would forever be over their heads if they were caught.
Too much to lose on the Pro's side to be involved with something shady.
That being said there will always be someone that tries to cheat.
Tennessee Boy reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 11:52 PM, BassNJake said:Too much to lose on the Pro's side to be involved with something shady.
That being said there will always be someone that tries to cheat.
I don't think cheaters make it to this level. By cheater I mean someone who has fish in a cage somewhere.
But if the angler has $120,000 on the line and the marshal has $2,500 on the line, it's in both of their interest to ignore a minor rules violation that could cost the angler. For example if he forgets how many fish he has in the live well and doesn't cull after his sixth keeper.
Jrob78 reply :
I was always under the impression that anglers could be subject to lie detector tests at times, not sure if this is true or under what circumstances it would be used.
Remember Nate Wellman? He fished the Elite's for a few years and was busted for basically offering his co-angler money for one of his fish during an Open. I don't remember what his punishment was but I think he won the tournament and his co turned him in.
38 Super Fan reply :
I was never a fan of co-anglers...so I like the move.
Gundog reply :
Can't think of any other pro sport that allows amateurs to compete along side the pros. I'm sure the pros are happy about the change. I'm just surprised it took them this long to figure that out.
volzfan59 reply :
I don't follow FLW much, but I think it was a good move to drop the Co-Anglers. The top tier PRO's should be the only one fishing out of the boat, in my opinion. The Co-Anglers can fish in the Opens, Costa, BFL levels.
"TennesseeBoy", FLW had a cheater several years back. Tony something? A lot of forums called him "Angler X". While he wasn't prosecuted, nor did he admit to anything, he'll never fish an FLW or B.A.S.S. event again.
Mike L reply :
So much hate for tournament co angler's on this board!
I just don't get it.
I understand why some pro's welcome the change, but there are some who don't also.
I'll just leave it at that.
Mike
volzfan59 reply :
I'm not hating on co-anglers in the least, sorry if anyone took it that way. I was going to fish the B.A.S.S. Southern Opens this year as a co-angler. My father in law's lung cancer took a turn for the worse in December 2017 so I thought it best to support my wife and in-laws. He passed in late January 2018, my wife took it really hard so I know that I made the right decision. Hopefully I can do it next season.
I'm just of the opinion that on the pro/ tour level, there only needs to be one guy fishing out of a boat.
Mike L reply :
On 7/15/2018 at 10:08 PM, volzfan59 said:I'm not hating on co-anglers in the least, sorry if anyone took it that way. I was going to fish the B.A.S.S. Southern Opens this year as a co-angler. My father in law's lung cancer took a turn for the worse in December 2017 so I thought it best to support my wife and in-laws. He passed in late January 2018, my wife took it really hard so I know that I made the right decision. Hopefully I can do it next season.
I'm just of the opinion that on the pro/ tour level, there only needs to be one guy fishing out of a boat.
Sorry for your family's loss.
You certainly did!
Mike
J.Vincent reply :
I like the move
TOXIC reply :
The "Pro's" now can relax and not have to learn another skill set.........Keeping you "Co" from catching fish. Many of them were experts at it. Many of them would actually help their Co once they filled a limit. My beef was always that the co-anglers were considered less skilled or apprentices of some sort. While some were, many are very skilled anglers for whatever reason chose not to compete in their own boat. Say for example many of the Yak fishermen right here on these pages. I was set up to write a recurring column for Yamamoto called "From the Back Deck" that targeted those who fish as the co-angler. Tips, techniques etc, from that perspective. I retire from my day job next year and was going to make it a goal to fish in the co position and chronicle the experience. I could still do it but it's lost a little luster if I am relegated to the lower tour events. I may still do it.
Swbass15 reply :
@TOXIC I encourage you to still do it. If financially you can afford to. It would be awesome to have insight at that level even if it’s just the opens or costa series. I’m a co-angler looking to move up to the state level.
Think part of this maybe they are struggling to fill a field of co’s?? I mean what happens if a pro has a co angler back out the day before? Can they still fish? I think there is more to it than just reducing the number of people fishing thur-fri.
12poundbass reply :
On 7/15/2018 at 8:23 AM, Gundog said:Can't think of any other pro sport that allows amateurs to compete along side the pros. I'm sure the pros are happy about the change. I'm just surprised it took them this long to figure that out.
Golf
On a regular basis no but the Opens and the Masters yes.
RichF reply :
I'm definitely in the camp that agrees that co-anglers shouldn't compete on the pro tours. Nothing against co-anglers (I've been one several times) but they can 100% have an effect on the outcome of some of these tournaments. I also think it was smart to move to a qualifying system and reducing the number of participants. Maybe we'll start seeing some better competition on the tour.
Mike L reply :
On 7/16/2018 at 6:41 PM, TOXIC said:The "Pro's" now can relax and not have to learn another skill set.........Keeping you "Co" from catching fish. Many of them were experts at it. Many of them would actually help their Co once they filled a limit. My beef was always that the co-anglers were considered less skilled or apprentices of some sort. While some were, many are very skilled anglers for whatever reason chose not to compete in their own boat. Say for example many of the Yak fishermen right here on these pages. I was set up to write a recurring column for Yamamoto called "From the Back Deck" that targeted those who fish as the co-angler. Tips, techniques etc, from that perspective. I retire from my day job next year and was going to make it a goal to fish in the co position and chronicle the experience. I could still do it but it's lost a little luster if I am relegated to the lower tour events. I may still do it.
Absolutely do it!
And you are exactly correct.
I've had every pro I've fished with welcome me aboard and none have even given me the slightest impression that I've impeded thier ability to compete or put them at a disadvantage.
I also know there are pro's who welcome the change for those very reasons and others who are in different, and some who disagree with the decision.
For those of you who think that having a co angler with the pro's somehow diminishes the competitiveness and effect the outcomes, yes it could happen I guess but in my experience it isn't as prevelant as some suggest.
Mike
TOXIC reply :
I actually know of a few Co-Anglers that directly helped their Pro finish higher due to the Co doing their homework, pre-fishing and knowing what to throw. I've also heard horror stories of being "back boated" all day and Pro's who came into the event literally blind and on no fish.
Mike L reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 1:28 AM, TOXIC said:I actually know of a few Co-Anglers that directly helped their Pro finish higher due to the Co doing their homework, pre-fishing and knowing what to throw. I've also heard horror stories of being "back boated" all day and Pro's who came into the event literally blind and on no fish.
Happens more than anyone knows
Mike
TOXIC reply :
What I really want to dispel is the common thought that the Co Anglers are all inexperienced anglers who can't find or catch fish. I know of a few other manufacturers reps who have dabbled in the Co Angler ranks and they said they had a blast and won enough money to pay for their expenses most of the time. I have Marshaled on the Elite Series for an article for Yamamoto and it was a good experience.
RichF reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 12:32 AM, Mike L said:For those of you who think that having a co angler with the pro's somehow diminishes the competitiveness and effect the outcomes, yes it could happen I guess but in my experience it isn't as prevelant as some suggest.
On 7/17/2018 at 1:40 AM, Mike L said:On 7/17/2018 at 1:28 AM, TOXIC said:I actually know of a few Co-Anglers that directly helped their Pro finish higher due to the Co doing their homework, pre-fishing and knowing what to throw. I've also heard horror stories of being "back boated" all day and Pro's who came into the event literally blind and on no fish.
Happens more than anyone knows
Great example of co's affecting the outcome of a tournament. Doesn't matter if the Pro benefits or not, I'd rather not see either scenario in a Professional competition.
Logan S reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 1:49 AM, TOXIC said:What I really want to dispel is the common thought that the Co Anglers are all inexperienced anglers who can't find or catch fish. I know of a few other manufacturers reps who have dabbled in the Co Angler ranks and they said they had a blast and won enough money to pay for their expenses most of the time. I have Marshaled on the Elite Series for an article for Yamamoto and it was a good experience.
No one is saying that and this change by FLW doesn't imply that in any way. I never hear people claim that about all co-anglers...Even among the most grumpy and grizzled boaters I know.
TOXIC reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 8:04 AM, Logan S said:No one is saying that and this change by FLW doesn't imply that in any way. I never hear people claim that about all co-anglers...Even among the most grumpy and grizzled boaters I know.
Directly from FLW......
“It is an apprenticeship like no other. But times have changed, and the co-angler program is no longer the stepping stone to the professional ranks that it once was.
To me it is not an "apprenticeship" because the skill level in many many cases is equal. I have personally heard the "Pro's" ( I prefer the terms "Boater and non Boater) talk down Co Anglers. I'm not painting everyone with a wide brush. There are exceptions but the notion that they are amateurs on the back deck is not right for a lot of them. The simple fact they can affect the outcome is proof of that.
Logan S reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 6:51 PM, TOXIC said:Directly from FLW......
“It is an apprenticeship like no other. But times have changed, and the co-angler program is no longer the stepping stone to the professional ranks that it once was.
To me it is not an "apprenticeship" because the skill level in many many cases is equal. I have personally heard the "Pro's" ( I prefer the terms "Boater and non Boater) talk down Co Anglers. I'm not painting everyone with a wide brush. There are exceptions but the notion that they are amateurs on the back deck is not right for a lot of them. The simple fact they can affect the outcome is proof of that.
We'll just agree to disagree...That statement by FLW seems pretty accurate to me, since the path to the pro tours is through the boater side of the Open tours. I don't see it as negative toward co-anglers at all.
Comparing 'skill' in a tournament setting between boaters and co-anglers is sort of an apples/oranges scenario. Both sides face challenges that the other guy doesn't on tournament day. Different skill sets IMO.
BassNJake reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 6:51 PM, TOXIC said:To me it is not an "apprenticeship" because the skill level in many many cases is equal. I have personally heard the "Pro's" ( I prefer the terms "Boater and non Boater) talk down Co Anglers. I'm not painting everyone with a wide brush. There are exceptions but the notion that they are amateurs on the back deck is not right for a lot of them. The simple fact they can affect the outcome is proof of that.
It seems that for every "pro/boater" that is talking down about his co angler; there are at least an equal amount of co anglers talking about how horrible their "pro" was.
I think it is natural to view the co-anglers as a level lower than the Pro.
Just like it is viewed as the progression in the sport to move from the co angler side to the pro side.
I agree that often the skill levels are the same but the back of the boat is still the back of the boat.
If you want to be treated like an equal become one.
The front of the boat has it's advantages.
RichF reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 9:34 PM, BassNJake said:It seems that for every "pro/boater" that is talking down about his co angler; there are at least an equal amount of co anglers talking about how horrible their "pro" was.
This is an incredibly accurate statement. I agree with @Logan S that there doesn't seem to be anyone saying co-anglers aren't as good as their boater counterpart. I also agree with @TOXIC that there are some incredibly skilled co-anglers. Bottom line for me: at the Pro Tour level, it should be just about the pro/boater. With the cost of entry, boat ownership, travel, etc., the competitor just doesn't need to worry about the co-angler factor (whether it's positive or negative).
TOXIC reply :
Good discussion with points on both sides. Here's a little tidbit right from the Co Angler who took home the win:
http://another site.com/docktalk_article/19272/longtime-tour-co-angler-sounds-off#.W03UudVKjDA
BassNJake reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 12:32 AM, Mike L said:For those of you who think that having a co angler with the pro's somehow diminishes the competitiveness and effect the outcomes, yes it could happen I guess but in my experience it isn't as prevelant as some suggest.
Mike
I think it affects the outcome of every event.
Decisions are often made on the water given the current conditions.
Those conditions are affected more when 2 people are fishing the same water.
150 guys fishing is alot of pressure 300 is an absurd amount from just one tourney and most of these lake have multiple tourneys on the weekends.
If one guy is fishing down the bank he can turn around and hit spots he missed.
Those spots are not missed with a co angler.
If 2 guys are fishing a spot and the pro catches 2 fish and the co angler catches 2 fish.
The pro might leave because he wants to find higher numbers of fish where as if he caught all 4, he might stay and fish that spot more thoroughly.
Or vice versa where the co catches fish and then it changes what decisions the pro makes.
Or it is that one thing that keys him into a pattern he didn't find on his own.
I think at the highest levels of the sport there should just be pro's.
WRB reply :
There is 't a pro on the tour that wants to win the event to help the marshal earn money, they want to win a paycheck. Trying to find a way to give a cash incentive to the marshal is only going to create doubt. If everyone of the competitors is honest no need for a marshal.
The pro bass fishing tournaments are going through an evolution to remain competitive between the venues and will keep what works.
Team events, co-angler events, shared weight, 5 bass total weight and catch & release total weight of unlimited number of bass are all in play. Without sponsorship none of the venues will survive and it's back to pot money turkey shoot derbies.
Tom
hoosierbass07 reply :
Is ditching the co-anglers going to make the flw any less insignificant? Doubt it.
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