Pros Fishing At Lower Level 2024
Brandon K. reply :
I'm not sure how anyone else feels about this. I was reading the article about an active touring pro fishing and winning a BFL tournament on the Ohio River. I first noticed it in the FLW magizine and didn't think much about it. Then seen the article on here and it started getting to me. He explained how he was fishing the River and was on a good bite so had his wife phone in his registration the day before the tournament started. In my mind if your an active touring pro you should not be able to go down to lower levels at least within that same orginization. I'm registered as a proffesional fighter in Nevada and Ohio. So I'm not allowed to go back and fight amateur events. To me, this is the same concept. I know in fishing as in fighting anyone can beat anyone at any time. It just seemed that he did it because he seen an easy pay day. I mean I'm not going to fight a guy who is 0-10 and been KO'd 10 times just to make a buck. Some these guys (I'm one of them) fish for the points in these tournaments in hopes of making to his level. I was actually registered for this tournament but took a deployment instead. Just a thought. I know it's not going to change anything but wanted to get it off my chest.
SudburyBasser reply :
Well, it apparently wasn't against the rules of the tournament but I do have to agree with you. A pro angler entering a lower level event does seem a bit dubious in principle. If you want to be a pro then you go against other pros.
McAlpine reply :
I'm torn on the subject. I think it would be fun to fish against a touring pro to see how I do on the same water the same day comparitively . However; if I were serious about trying to bust out of the amature ranks and a guy came in and blasted everyone trying to get points or a local win as a berth to move up, it would definitly rankle me a bit.
flyfisher reply :
I don't see a problem with it. I imagine the life of a profesional fisherman is not easy and if he can fish a lower level tournament and make a paycheck then why not. If you are worried about him stealing your spot well just consider this a precursor to what you will be competing against at the next level.
I mean if you would have won nobody would ever hear the end of it how the local guy beat the hot shot pro.....
Hooligan reply :
Sandbagging? I think you're confused. Sandbagging is someone that underperforms intentionally. In the case of the pro that phones in his registration to fish a tournament that he would possibly not otherwise fish, I see it on capitalizing on opportunity. I see it no different than me fishing open tournaments on lakes that I fish on a tour or circuit. If it means I have the shot at making a few extra bucks and I'm confident that there's an established pattern I could do well on, well, I'd be foolish not too. Insinuating that because he's fishing the tour he's automatically better than others is somewhat ridiculous. I have been, and will be again, beaten in many an open tournament by someone that fishes a local lake or fishes only the occasional tournament. I fish with a handful of guys that are every bit as good as anyone on any tour, and they have no desire to fish tournaments. Some of them would give any, single angler on any tour a run for their money. Just because the tour pro is fishing it doesn't mean he's going to win it. I've beat many higher level pros fishing lower level tournaments. It's still fishing, and there's still chance and luck. The only difference is the entry fees. If the rules allow it, I see no reason for anyone to whine about it.
Quillback reply :
I can't see where it's any different than having a local angler who finds a hot pattern the day before a tourney, deciding to jump in the next day. One way to eliminate this unfairness (if you want to call it that), is have a no pre-fishing rule that begins several days before the tourney starts.
Christian M reply :
This past season I fished two open buddy tourneys that happened to fall on the same weekend, one on Saturday, one on Sunday. The club I belong to hosted the one on Saturday and another local club hosted Sundays event. An extremely well known pro entered with a buddy and lost the first day, then came back, and took it all home the second day. I didn't have any personal issues with it, actually I thought it was really cool to see a pro of that caliber fishing an open buddy.
J Francho reply :
On 12/3/2012 at 7:06 PM, Hooligan said:Sandbagging? I think you're confused. Sandbagging is someone that underperforms intentionally. In the case of the pro that phones in his registration to fish a tournament that he would possibly not otherwise fish, I see it on capitalizing on opportunity. I see it no different than me fishing open tournaments on lakes that I fish on a tour or circuit. If it means I have the shot at making a few extra bucks and I'm confident that there's an established pattern I could do well on, well, I'd be foolish not too. Insinuating that because he's fishing the tour he's automatically better than others is somewhat ridiculous. I have been, and will be again, beaten in many an open tournament by someone that fishes a local lake or fishes only the occasional tournament. I fish with a handful of guys that are every bit as good as anyone on any tour, and they have no desire to fish tournaments. Some of them would give any, single angler on any tour a run for their money. Just because the tour pro is fishing it doesn't mean he's going to win it. I've beat many higher level pros fishing lower level tournaments. It's still fishing, and there's still chance and luck. The only difference is the entry fees. If the rules allow it, I see no reason for anyone to whine about it.
This is exactly it. Not all touring pros are rolling in dough. Many are betting their life savings on chasing the dream. The game is played on many "levels," and they're all relative. I fish opens on Oneida all the time. I don't complain when a local stick that lives on the lake, has been on the state and national teams several years, and was the prez of the NY BASS fed registers in an open that I'm fishing. I try to beat him.
J Francho reply :
You're thinking of the term "ringer," not "sandbagger."
ww2farmer reply :
I have fished local tournaments against a couple current (at the time) and former B.A.S.S. elite series pros. Sometimes they beat me, sometimes they don't. I say bring it on. Rise to the level of the compition. Do I like it when a pro shows up and hands me beat down on a lake I spend 100 + days a year on..........NO, but it pushes me to get better and teaches me something. I wish I could fish against them more often.
slonezp reply :
The more the merrier.
J Francho reply :
Bigger pot. 
(null)
Gatorbassman reply :
Way back when I was fishing Wednesday Night Pot Tournaments in my 14ft jon boat I remember a top FLW Pro showing up almost every week in his wrapped boat. He grew up on the lake and made his name fishing there. I would crank up my 8hp motor and head over to my spot and do what I do. I always chuckled when I would see him running back and fourth in his boat and I really enjoyed taking his money.
Bass Fishing is one of those few sports where it can be a level playing ground. That little green fish is what makes it level. We all have to go out and catch them. But you can't let the fact that they are Pro's get in your head. Come up with a game plan that can catch the weight that is needed to win on that particular lake. Then go out and execute and nobody can beat you.
robdob reply :
On 12/4/2012 at 4:19 AM, SAC2 said:i think we just have different definitions of sandbagging lol. i see sandbagging as someone who competes at a lower level then they should be competing in whether it be bmx racing, wrestling, or various other things. i guess youre right in that it doesnt really apply to fishing as much as it does to other sports though. there are so many other variables that come into play in fishing as opposed into other sports.
sandbagging means you are underperforming on purpose to hide your actual skill level from others. an example would be you are playing pool in front of people so you make yourself look worse than you really are to get someone to bet on a game that you will then win because you are better than the person thinks you are based on the performance where you "sandbagged" . doesn't matter what sport it is thats what sandbagging mneans
robdob reply :
how will you ever find out how good you are if you never face competition that is better than what you are used to.
flyfisher reply :
On 12/5/2012 at 8:39 AM, robdob said:sandbagging means you are underperforming on purpose to hide your actual skill level from others. an example would be you are playing pool in front of people so you make yourself look worse than you really are to get someone to bet on a game that you will then win because you are better than the person thinks you are based on the performance where you "sandbagged" . doesn't matter what sport it is thats what sandbagging mneans
When i used to play in hoop it up 3 on 3 tournaments in the philly area sandbagging was huge. People would completely lie about their height and skill levels....it was actually one of the reasons i stopped playing. I don't mind playing against better competition but when teams were saying that they were all under 6'1" and never played anything higher than high school ball but in reality they all were over 6' 2" and played college ball it kind of sucked.....luckily we beat that particular team in the finals of our bracket Gotta love it when score is kept by 1's and 2's rather than 2's and 3's
Brandon K. reply :
That's cool. I would love to fish agianst the Pro's. And as I said in my OP, anyone can beat anyone, I understand that. But, it seemed in the article that the only reason he fished that tournament was because he was on fish. For god sake he had his wife phone in his entry. Plus, it was the super tournament. That means double points for guys trying to reach the regoinals. Those points that he gained and probably didn't care about could have sent someone to the regional tournament. See what I mean? I spoke with Vic Vatalaro at last years Bukeye event on Mosquito Lake and asked if he was entering the event. He said "No, these guys need it more than I do. I'm just here to cheer you guys on." If this were just a little Wednesday nighter or an Open then heck yeah, let's see what ya got. On the up side, a co-angler got a great lesson on fishing the Ohio River. One of the best and most underrated fisheries in the country. But that's another topic.
I'm glad to see this is getting a good debate. This is my first post that got labeled HOT!!
Hooligan reply :
TO further this, I fish several series of tournaments down South, every year. I have for the past ten or more. In the winter, there are some extremely well known guys that we fish with, some elite pros, some flw tour guys, a couple classic winners... They're all big guns; I mean that in the most respectful way I possibly can say it. They're good. It's always really gratifying to walk up to a weigh-in and see that your name is still atop the list and you've not yet weighed on day 2. It's also really gratifying to see that you did as well as, or better than, a guy that's won a classic.
It boils down to their being a regular guy, just like you and me. The difference is that their chosen career has taken them on that path. I chose to have a secure career for one reason- fear. I feared what would happen if I didn't perform like I thought I could. I feared that I couldn't perform under the pressure. I feared that I couldn't keep up, and do what I needed to do. I've since learned that isn't the case. Winning those tournaments and fishing against those guys in those situations is what has taught me to not fear it. We're all only human and can do only that which we can. Only Zona is superhuman, and he's just weird.
SirSnookalot reply :
It's up to the professional to compete where they wish. A top pro in any sport probably will not enter any competition for the sake of a buck, most of them have got plenty already. In some cases they may compete to fulfill an obligation to their sponsor, Tiger Woods used to play at Warick Hiils in Flint Mich, think he would have been there if Buick wasn't his sponsor at the time. The best want to compete against the best and in the most prestigious tournaments.
robdob reply :
On 12/6/2012 at 1:52 AM, SAC2 said:thanks for the double clarification there "robdob". i still kinda see it as sandbaggin. although they might not be acting like they are lower level fisherman, they are still going and competing against lower level fisherman in hopes of making a check. i see that kinda like your above example, except there is no deceitfulness involved on how good the pro is competing at the lower level. But also said above, everyone is equal in front of the bass. but dont ya think this is kind of the equivalent as say an MLB player going down and playing ball against highschoolers? The MLB guy obviously has a lot more skill than 90 percent of players in highschool. I just feel like it is unfair. We all know what they say about opinions.
there was no "double clarification" i was just trying to explain to you what sandbagging means because you don't seem to understand. so if you still "kinda see it as sandbaggin" then you still dont know what sandbagging means.
robdob reply :
On 12/6/2012 at 2:04 AM, SAC2 said:someone else had already clarified what their definition of sandbagging was, then you did it again. double clarification. i see it how i see it, you see it your way. lets stick to the topic at hand. i already clarified how i felt about the situation, and why i felt that way.
Sandbagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search 
Look up sandbagging in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement, may refer to:
- Sandbagging in billiards and other games, deliberately playing below one's actual ability in order to fool opponents into accepting higher stakes bets, or to lower one's competitive rating in order to play in a future event with a higher handicap and consequently have a better chance to win; the term has spread to chess, go and other such games
- Sandbagging (golfing), playing poorly until establishing a handicap and then raising bets, using the established handicap to gain advantage.
- Sandbagging (racing), deliberately qualifying slower than what the car can actually perform
- Sandbagging (grappling), competing in a skill-bracket or being ranked lower than one is deemed capable of
- Slow play (poker), deceptive play in poker
See also
robdob reply :
the word actually has a defenition so its not one persons opinion vs. another person's opinion its a correct usage of the term vs. an incorrect usage of the term
J Francho reply :
Well, it's pretty tough tough, when you keep saying it's something it isn't. It would be easier to stay on target, if you would accept you used the wrong word. Everybody makes mistakes; it's how we learn.
From Merriam Webster:
Quote1
: to bank, stop up, or weight with sandbags
2
a : to hit or stun with or as if with a sandbag
b : to treat unfairly or harshly
c : to coerce by crude means <are raiding the Treasury and sandbagging the government — C. W. Ferguson>
d : to conceal or misrepresent one's true position, potential, or intent especially in order to take advantage of
intransitive verb
: to hide the truth about oneself so as to gain an advantage over another
— sand·bag·ger noun
"]
Examples of SANDBAG
- He claimed he was playing badly because of an injury, but I think he was sandbagging.
- I think he was sandbagging us.
robdob reply :
1. sandbagging 481 up, 81 down
When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best. Normally this is because they are too superior, they want to hustle you, or they are too lazy to play their best with nothing on the line.
I just beat him the first two games. Should I money match him?
Nah, he was sandbagging.
robdob reply :
another example of sandbagging,
in corporate sales: when reps report a much lower deal opportunity than actually exists. reps do this so that if the deal doesn't go through they don't look as bad and so at the end of the quarter when the company has to make their number the rep isn't selected to perform a high pressure last minute sales job.
this market looks small for us, unless the reps are sandbagging us again.
J Francho reply :
This is an interesting topic. Any more debate on the definition of "sandbagging" will be removed. The post above should clear that up.
Thanks.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 12/5/2012 at 12:49 PM, Brandon K. said:I spoke with Vic Vatalaro at last years Bukeye event on Mosquito Lake and asked if he was entering the event. He said "No, these guys need it more than I do. I'm just here to cheer you guys on." If this were just a little Wednesday nighter or an Open then heck yeah, let's see what ya got. On the up side, a co-angler got a great lesson on fishing the Ohio River. One of the best and most underrated fisheries in the country. But that's another topic.
I'm glad to see this is getting a good debate. This is my first post that got labeled HOT!!
Vic is a really cool guy, very gracious & genuine.
PABASS reply :
He took advantage of a situation, most people would, you do when you fight, you win based on the opponents weaknesses/mistakes. I don't know his situation so I cant judge, if he needed the money and even if he didn't its hard to blame someone for being human.
ChiCityBasser reply :
I fish in the FLW events here in IL and at one of the events I was paired with a FLW touring pro who was fishing the BFL, the Everstart series and the Tour. I asked him about fishing all 3 and he said he liked the competition and always had been a competitive person and loved sports. We talked about him just being a regular guy who loved to fish and how much his expenses were to fish all the events. Just for the FLW tour he has to come up with $24K next month for his deposits. Not to mention the Everstart or BFL cash outlay. He mentioned his sponsors provided product for him in the form of rods and reels and misc. things such as plastics and cranks. He caught a 6 lb. keeper early in the morning and nothing the rest of the day with 15 lbs winning the tournament. He taught me alot and allowed me to ask any questions I had for the day and tried to put me on fish as well. All in all he was a regular guy trying to make it in a tough profession. He had the same problems with his kids that I have with mine and the same worries with bills and the wife as we all do.
I love to compete also and ended up with 2-3 non keepers that day but agree they are regular guys with a Great Job!
Ramyot reply :
This past fall my son and I decided to try out the TBF Dream team Ralleys we fished 2 of them, Both events in different states, the first one was not the greatest, one set of rules as to off limits on water, then the day of the event the limits lifted because a local pro whinned about his hot spots being in the off limit area, well guess what he won, I thought these events were supposed to for anglers wanting a chance to fishstep up.
The second one was very well run and lots of info shared about the lake from everyone, although rules were bent about late entries, there was a deadline, and registrations were taken at last minute, again a local pro last minute entry and again he was the winner.
I agree with may the best angler win, but rules should be enforced, and not bent for the local pro, if the pro's want to fish ok but follow the rules that are layed out for everyone
Ratherbfishing reply :
My main complaint would be that someone can register so close to the actual event. But that is something you'd have to take up with the club or organization.
I do feel it's a bit unfair that someone who has already "arrived" at the a higher level can compete in such a way as to make it harder for "lower echelon" performers to reach the next level. But this is just one of many reasons why I'll never fish a tourney where money is involved.
Crookedneck reply :
I suppose it would depend on the caliber of the pro. There are several "Pro's" who enter smaller tournements around here. Some are very good and I always enjoy pitting my abilities against them, sometimes they do well, sometimes they struggle. Then there are the few who I chuckle at when I see them pull up to the registration.
I think the term pro in all honestly, is a very select few.
ww2farmer reply :
On 12/27/2012 at 11:50 AM, Crookedneck said:.I think the term pro in all honestly, is a very select few.
That sums it up for me too. I have met and talked to a few pros over the years that were pretty disapointing. There are a few local sticks around here that I have way more concern for when I see them show up at a tournament.
IntroC reply :
Up north here the walleye tourneys are the big thing and the bigger tournements usually have a couple pros fishing. Rarely do they win them. They usaully do pretty good though. I remember one tourney the LOCAL pro took dead last which had to be a humbling experience. Then again I thiink walleye tourneys have a whole lot more luck involved than bass tourneys being they are more so schooling fish.
related Tournament Talk topic
previous topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.