How bad would it be for Kim Bain to beat you in the classic? 2024
bocraw reply :
That's right---I asked it. It's not politically correct but don't think for a second that that thought isn't go through about 50 guys heads right now. She is a good fisherman (woman) and I think she can place well in the Classic. The problem is that the Classic is a "swing for the fences" type tournament. Most guys will tell you that they are going to be a hero or zero and 2nd place is only the first loser.
But having a woman in the field has to change that some. I mean, what if Kim comes in 49th place and YOU come in 50th...dude...getting beat by a girl on national TV. That would be painful and make for a long 2009 season.
My prediction is that many more anglers are going to fish to place this year than in years past. All because they don't want to get whopped by a girl.
What do you guys think?
Bass Dude reply :
OK--I'll bite!! First, this whole swing for the fence thing is ridiculous. Why wouldn't go after the biggest you can find in every tournament. Do you think any Pro goes out there and thinks 'ok, I have a few spots where I can nail the 2 pounders so I won't look for bigger fish.' When they don't catch the big fish it's not because they 'didn't swing for the fences' it's because they couldn't find 'em. Check out John Crew's website--he talks about the top 10 'catch phrases' that pros use when they don't find fish. It's pretty amuzing---and true!!
Secondly, I don't think her being in the classic is going to change the way any of them fish. There is just too much on the line---no pun intended!!
Lastly, in fishing I wouldn't mind being beaten by a girl. It's one of the few sports where I truly believe you're on an equal playing field. Now if I got beat by a girl playing football---that would be a different story!! ;D
TexFishin reply :
QuoteLastly, in fishing I wouldn't mind being beaten by a girl. It's one of the few sports where I truly believe you're on an equal playing field. Now if I got beat by a girl playing football---that would be a different story!! ;D
BINGO!!!!
J Francho reply :
QuoteHow bad would it be for Kim Bain to beat you in the classic?
It would be as bad as if I were beaten by you, a gay guy, a kid, an Italian, or anyone else. Now since I'm in the classic in your little dream world, I'm assuming my good buddy Kase is in it too. It would be far worse if he beat my by just one tenth of an ounce.
bocraw reply :
Strategies do change depending on whether you are fishing for a check or fishing for 1st. The bigger the reward the bigger the risk of striking out. So I do NOT think the "swing for the fences" cliche' in the Classic is false.
bocraw reply :
QuoteQuoteLastly, in fishing I wouldn't mind being beaten by a girl. It's one of the few sports where I truly believe you're on an equal playing field. Now if I got beat by a girl playing football---that would be a different story!! ;DBINGO!!!!
I agree that men do not have inherent physical advantages over women in the sport of fishing. But if the playing field is so equal, why has a woman never qualified via the Opens, Fed Nation, Weekend Series, or Elite Series? (all of whom welcome participation by women.)
Mattlures reply :
Women have not qualified because there has never been a big market for women. Not much incentive. Most little girls dont grow up dreaming about being a pro fisherman. If womans pro fishing continue to grow this could change. I doubt woman will ever become much of a threat. In other sports woman usualy cant compete. There is always an exceptional woman who is competetive but not a world beater.
In pro pool the woman are no match for the men and the girls make more money on tour. I cant explain why woman arent as good as a group but its just the way it is. I predict that if womans pro fishing grew big and the girls made a lot of money then you would see a few competing and holding their own agaisnt the men but it would be far from equal.
As for getting beat by a girl, I am not so politicaly correct to say It wouldnt bother me, because it would. Not a lot but it would bug me. However I would not alter my tournament strategy because a girl was in it and I am sure NONE of the men will either. I do agree that the classic (while grossly overrated) is an all or nothing event. You fish this one to win, not to place. Unlike the rest of the tournies through out the year. I also feel angler of the year is MUCH more prestegious then winning one event even if it is the classic.
dickenscpa reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteLastly, in fishing I wouldn't mind being beaten by a girl. It's one of the few sports where I truly believe you're on an equal playing field. Now if I got beat by a girl playing football---that would be a different story!! ;DBINGO!!!!
I agree that men do not have inherent physical advantages over women in the sport of fishing. But if the playing field is so equal, why has a woman never qualified via the Opens, Fed Nation, Weekend Series, or Elite Series? (all of whom welcome participation by women.)
When I read this thread the first thing that hit my mind has already been covered by other posters. No real physical advantages enjoyed by men where fishing is concerned, so no real shame in getting beat by a lady.
As far as your other question of why no other woman in the past, I believe it's purely statistical. Mainly being a pro level fisherman has a lot to do with said pro spending countless hours on the water learning bass habits and how to catch them. Statistically I would guess without factual data to back me up that more men enjoy countless hours out bass fishing than women. So statistically the odds are greater for men to be more prominent on the pro circuit.
Now that women have their own circuit and as more women get turned on to fishing, I'd say we'll see more women getting to the point that they can "hang" with the men.
Catt reply :
Wouldn't bother me at all since I've been beaten by a woman more than once, my ex-mother-in-law was an awesome angler. She was very versatile but didn't care to learn how to drive the boat or find and read structure.
I don't see Kim Bain making the top 30 even though I would love to see her on the final day.
If an angler made the Classic it didn't come from a fish to place attitude 
UPS VT reply :
I had a woman finish ahead of me, in our STQ this past summer. Yes it hurt the ego a little bit, but I need to keep working on my skills.
warmer reply :
i would be glad to lose to kim bain in the classic this year.
Bass Dude reply :
I agree that men do not have inherent physical advantages over women in the sport of fishing. But if the playing field is so equal, why has a woman never qualified via the Opens, Fed Nation, Weekend Series, or Elite Series? (all of whom welcome participation by women.)
farmpond1 reply :
Perhaps it's just this Yanks perspective but what difference does it make which gender a person is? If it stings to be beaten by a "girl" in a fishing tournament, it's because one has the mind set that a man is (or should be) somehow superior to women. But the ability to figure out where the fish are and how to catch them has little to do with having the XY chromosome. And if physical agility or endurance were the test, than the Australian open (or any other pro tennis tournament) should convince you that women are more than capable of enduring a few days out on a lake.
In case one is afraid women will take over the sport, I doubt we'll see too many maxipad commercials on during our favorite fishing shows. I just can't see Penny Berryman promoting Covergirl or Maybelline on the side of her boat.
fishfordollars reply :
There are a few women in this area that can flat out locate fish(Notice I did not say fish) and lay waste to a strong field of anglers. Most of us enjoy them being around and I wish there were more.
bocraw reply :
What a great thread! Many excellent points...
zbass reply :
QuoteThere are a few women in this area that can flat out locate fish(Notice I did not say fish) and lay waste to a strong field of anglers. Most of us enjoy them being around and I wish there were more.
X2 My wife has fished as my partner in team and club events for the past ten years. She has out fished me and has won some mney in the club stuff. For the most part she is welcomed by other competitors and treated very well. i agree that it would be nice if more women fished. Her favorite line was "pleasure doing business with ya boys." as she got her checks. Everyone except a few got a big laugh out of that.
Matt Fly reply :
If you made the classic and your worried about being beat by one girl, you've already lost before you started.
I don't mind losing to a woman. But.........
I would like them to earn their spots like everyone else did. Guys on the Elites spent alot of money trying to accomplish that goal. If there is one spot open for the classic, i'd give it to the person who invested the most, yet earned that spot in points.
roadwarrior reply :
I think all those that argue "she should have earned it" have
a legitimate gripe. However, this is a professional tournament
event which is designed to promote the sport, add interest and
attract viewers, but most importantly...make money! So, the
broad based appeal and all the free advertising of the "controversy"
is appealing for B.A.S.S.
BTW, On another thread I picked her to win. You Go Girl!
8-)
Bass Dude reply :
QuoteIf you made the classic and your worried about being beat by one girl, you've already lost before you started.I don't mind losing to a woman. But.........
I would like them to earn their spots like everyone else did. Guys on the Elites spent alot of money trying to accomplish that goal. If there is one spot open for the classic, i'd give it to the person who invested the most, yet earned that spot in points.
The Weekend Series champ gets in The Classic and they only spend $1100 in entry fees for their entire season. Does the winner of this not deserve to be there since they didn't spend the money the Elite guys do??
I don't understand the "they didn't earn it". The women fish the trail they were given. They pay the entry fees and have to win a points battle. How did they not earn it?? The Open guys only fish three points tournaments, which is less than the women fish. Do the Open fisherman not earn their spot?
Matt Fly reply :
Who is talking about men? Did Kim earn her points fishing against men?
Who said anything about the Opens and BWS not earning their spots?
How many BWS competed? for how many spots? After wading through thousands, I'd say they earned their spot as given by the rules they play by and beating their peers.
Same for the opens and Federation, those spots have been designated for spots at the classic, won by fishing against their peers.
I'm a big fan of ladies in bassin, and Kim is a super person. Would love for her to do well.
Its like Brett Farve being voted to the Pro Bowl but not earing it amoung his peers by the numbers. So another Pro gets left off the roster due to Brett getting a token spot.
Kim did not earn that spot amoung her Peers. Its not opinion, its a fact.
So to summarize this for ya. So many spots are earned through the Opens, Federations, and BWS. Classic and AOYs have 5 year grandfathered invitation, that leaves the Elite spots to fill the field.
So yes, Elite guy is the one missing the cut if they are giving away a new spot that wasn't earned on the same terms as the other fishermen hoping to make the classic.
Don't the women have their own Classic?
"they didn't earn" where did you get that?
fatmanslim247 reply :
I agree with matt fly 110%, I don't mind getting beat by a girl. Actually there is one in the okie bfl's, nettie.... she is good, plus she helps run a and m baits. I say that I agree with this but here is a dilema that I just thought of...
I am fishing in midwest division flw college circuit, now that being said, we get everything paid for, we have a chance to qualify in 4 or 5 events. Then we go into regional championships, then national championships, then the winner goes to the forrest wood cup. Well yes, we have to go and qualify, but we really have a minimal amount of moneywe have to spend in this circuit. So if we were to to make it all the way the same thing could be said.
No matter how you qualify into the championship, it comes down to what the directors and promoters setup. They are the ones who had this setup, she just fished her heart out to get where she is at. You could argue the same thing for fishing in other circuits, whether its stren, bfl's, or weekend series. We aren't dumping as much money into it as the pros, but guess what we could still make it to the classic or forrest wood cup.
my 2 cents
Mattlures reply :
I agree with you Matt. Maybe they did it this way I am not sure but I have a simple solution. Instaed of taking away a spot and giving it to a woman angler. They should have just added 1 more spot to the event. Pretty simple huh?
Bass Dude reply :
Easy Matt Fly---this is just a philosophical discussion and no reason to get all amped up about it! ;D
Your point was that the Elites spend a lot more money in order to qualify. I was in no way stating the men from the other series don't deserve to get in there. If you notice they were in the form of a question. I was merely stating that there are spots open for male anglers that spend a lot less than the Elite guys and the WBT ladies. I know what it takes at every level to qualify, although I'm only in my mid thirities, I've been into this sport and fishing tournies since I've 16.
My point was similar to Fatmanslim---they fished what they were given and made it in. They made it in because they earned what it took for them to get into the Classic according to the criteria they were given.
Although I don't agree--I will give you props for being the first one to say she didn't earn it because she didn't fish against the men. I think that's what a lot of these guys want to say, but won't say it.
As far as taking one spot away from the Elites---you know how you fix that---get enough points so your locked in!
bocraw reply :
I believe they did just add the spot for the WBT Champion....there were 50 spots last two years and 51 spots this year. I could be very wrong if anyone wants to correct me on that...
Bass Dude reply :
Roadwarrior closed a thread down because we were speaking negatively about the pros.
Doesn't stating that Kim Bain is not worthy of her Classic berth constitute negativity?
Matt Fly reply :
fatman,
That spot was designed to promote collegiate anglers into the pro ranks of the FLW. It accomplishes what it was designed for. Growth of the sport with young anglers coming from college.
As does the BWS, it for the weekend angler. Thousands of guys fish for a spot, but at a fraction of the cost of an Elite angler who only fishes against 107 other guys. The Elite Pro has better odds making the classic, but at higher costs than does the BWS guy.
Bass Dude,
Theres alot more thought process than to just say, she didn't earn that spot. Think about this. The first woman ever at the classic will take away alot of exposure that alot of the other guys earned by getting there. Exposure that their sponsors earned as well. With the economy the way it is, every minute spent doing interviews and such may mean an increase or decrease in sponsor dollars for that individual. Exposure sells.
Kim Bain will have the same media effect that Danika Patrick had. Dankia brought media attention to a sport that received very little exposure. Her sponsors will love all the exposure, she'll probablely profit very nicely no matter where she places.
Kim is in a win win situation. She'll get paid no matter how many fish she weighs in.
Is that the same situation the guys are in?
Bass Dude reply :
This is my last post on this---I swear :-X
Matt Fly,
You won't change my mind and I won't change yours. I think she deserves to be there and the media time devoted to her does nothing bad for the sport as a whole. It may effect some of the lesser known men in the field, but so be it. I don't mean to sound mean about it, but people outside our circle don't care about the Federation guy--and most don't even know what that means. Someone qualifies from all the other series every year, so those guys aren't really a story in the eyes of the media. Realisitically, our sport is not like any other. The only people that really read the media exposure about the Classic are people like us, the ones who are in the sport. There are very few casual bass fishing fans. She will give, and has given, the sport exposure beyond the fishing industy boundries, which can do us all good. Afterall how many Classics have there been and this was the year they put something about it on the WORLD NEWS!!! It's because of her and her story.
farmpond1 reply :
I had not looked at things from a "Did they earn it?" perspective when I wrote my bit earlier. But after reading the various contributions, while my views have not changed about being beaten by a woman, I have to say that competition should be based on a level playing field. As to whether the woman bassers are being given preferential treatment, I haven't formed an opinion. I haven't done the research. But if, for the sake of argument, they are, than that isn't cool. Well, hopefully the cream will still rise to the top-regardless of gender.
bass wrangler569 reply :
Like some others said, I am doubtful that a woman is going to be able to compete at same level as the men, only because the women's tournament trail doesn't have anywhere near the level of competition that the men's trail does. As for her earning her spot, she won the women's classic and in my mind she deserves her spot. And to those who say that it isn't fair to the male pro angler who would have made it if she hadn't of taken their spot, I think thats just passing the blame. If they missed making the classic, they should have fished better, end of story. It's not Bain's fault.
As far as being beaten by a women, I don't have a problem with it at all. Like someone else said, its not like she kicked your but at football.
The Next KVD reply :
I disagree with women not being able to compete. I've fished against women on the Weekend Series and I think have just as a good chance to win as I do. I would see Kim as another competitor I would have to beat. I think she'll kick butt!! And I agree with Bass Dude: This thread is beating down a profesional angler. That ain't right people. >
Pitchinkid reply :
BTW, On another thread I picked her to win. You Go Girl!
8-)
tallydude reply :
By all accounts, she is a great fisherman. What difference does it make about whether she is a woman or not. For those of you who may think she doesn't belong there because she didn't qualify on the men's tour, you have a valid argument. But I believe that she will prove her angling ability does belong in the tournament once it has started. I hope she does well.
mrbassky reply :
I think women have a different way of thinking and on the water they dont make the quick decisions the way guys do. At least thats my theory. I know women who fished as much as guys so I dont know why they havent had more success fishing against the guys. I heard someone on bassmasters say they didnt want to be the one beat by her. ;D
mrbassky reply :
Didnt mean to ruffle so many feathers on the subject. Dont think I am sexist a lot of women can fish with anybody. But I would rather see them beat the guys in the Opens or even Eliete series. I just dont know if the WBT is strong enough yet they should send someone to the Classic. I would rather see the top 5 qualify for one of the other championships that get you in. I hope the WBT is that strong someday.
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