Using guides for prefishing... 2024
Tin reply :
A spin-off from another thread. So what do you guys think od hiring a guide to help you prefish?
Personally I look at it as cheating and you should put your own time into the lake, find your own areas and patterns.
fishfordollars reply :
You don't do it down here. Instant DQ if caught. Guides can fish but they are required to follow the off limits and have not guided on the tournament waters usually for the last 30 days. Some require longer.
Grey Wolf reply :
Only a low life would do it.
fishfordollars reply :
There are a couple of large circuits down here that allow it, but as a rule most do not. The larger circuits(150-250+ boats) will allow some leeway, but the others, other than a few in the area do not.
oteymc reply :
Just a hypothetical question - What if you knew you were going to fish a lake, and hired a guide three months before the tournament? Is this a DQ? If not a DQ, is it still looked down upon?
I am totally ignorant to tournament fishing, but it really intrigues me.
Flips reply :
You would be surprised of how many tournament pros still do this. However, the resources and information handed to top pros is incredible. They may have never been to a body of water and they will have waypoints, custom lures, and the winning pattern in their back pocket.
What do you guys think about helicopter rides over tournament waters and just recently renting of air boat guides on Okeechobee to find hidden ponds? Today's pros are very very clever...
etommy28 reply :
see, I feel differently. I have never hired a guide but I have tought about it several times. I dont see any thing wrong with it unless it is out lawed in the tourny rules.
JohnnyBigger reply :
Quotesee, I feel differently. I have never hired a guide but I have tought about it several times. I dont see any thing wrong with it unless it is out lawed in the tourny rules.
I agree, if there is no rule saying no than why not, follow the rules
Keri reply :
All I can say is if you're a boater and it's a new lake/river and you get the chance to take someone/guide who knows the lake/river it's worth it. I'd much rather spend $300.00 than buy a lower unit. I mean getting help with the navigation is crucial, not the fishing. I can do that part myself. Navionic chips are not always correct and some hazards are not shown. The key is to take your boat so you can mark the channels and key prop busting obstacles. I know the chip for the Wallula Pool on the Columbia River has one miss-marked channel and is missing a lot of underwater structure.
Bassn Blvd reply :
Have you ever asked your friend where the fish are biting in a particular lake before a tourny? Have you ever asked the locals in a bait shop what baits are producing? If you answered yes, then what's wrong with hiring a guide? Although the guide might not like it if he shows up to fish the same tournament and sees you after he just took you out.
George Welcome reply :
In any of the major tournaments the rules are relatively the same. Prior to off limits, practice, and event periods there are no restrictions. Once into the off limits, practice, and event periods, anything that isn't publicly available is not allowed.
Aircraft and guide usage are common prior to off limits. However, these are not for fish location; as we all know what's happening today with the fish is history tomorrow.
Catt reply :
If you have to hire a guide to pre-fish a tournament you're only donating your entry fee cause you can't fish.
fishfordollars reply :
QuoteIf you have to hire a guide to pre-fish a tournament you're only donating your entry fee cause you can't fish.
Or locate...
etommy28 reply :
QuoteIf you have to hire a guide to pre-fish a tournament you're only donating your entry fee cause you can't fish.
WOW thats an interesting statement!
Glenn reply :
Catt, you might want read Keri's comment - then yank your foot out of your mouth. ;D
Catt reply :
QuoteCatt, you might want read Keri's comment - then yank your foot out of your mouth. ;D
Excuse me Boss but I believe the original intent of the question is hiring a guide to locate fish while the person secretly puts in GPS coordinates & that sir is cheating plain and simple.
So Tin correct me if I'm wrong and your intent was to hire a guide to show you how to safely navigate a body of water.
Tin reply :
I decided to make this thread after someone on another thread asked if guides were cool with someone bringing a GPS unit on to mark spots. I would never hire a guide to lean how to safely navagate. In my book run it slow first if you cannot follow the GPS or channel markers then follow your path the next time through according to the previous track. If you can't figure it out you shouldn't be driving a boat. I have just seen and read about lots of nasty accidents on the Connecticut River.
Plus watching someone drive and doing it are completely different when 20' makes all the difference.
Glenn reply :
I think you misunderstood. Keri and I are talking about taking a friend/guide with you - in your boat - to learn how to avoid dangerous obstructions and situations on a new body of water that has such hazards. That way you're driving and mapping trails on your own GPS. It's even more important when traveling to/from the channel and from the bays and shoreline, where most hazards lay and aren't marked.
I know of a few places on the Columbia, for instance, where the GPS mismarks the channel. You can destroy your lower unit and risk serious injury if you follow it. You'd think following the channel markers would avoid that, but it's not marked well, and many boaters every year run up on those places. There's also places where obstructions are IN the channel, and not marked on any map or GPS unit. If you look at them, you'll see marks on the rocks from all the prop strikes.
Those are the guys spending their summer off-the-water while their boats and bodies are being repaired - the ones who have expensive repair and medical bills now. You know, the guys who thought they were smart enough to "figure it out" themselves.
Tin reply :
I figured you meant going out with a guide, not a guide going out with you.
Bassnajr reply :
Safety is one thing, and I believe that is what Glenn and Keri speak of. I would have no problem with that. If you were to hire a local guide to show you the best places on a certain body of water, I think goes more to being lazy more than cheating. Although if it is a violation of the law or tournament rules, that is different. A "fly over" is no different than a good Google Earth for the most part. I have heard a "story" of a pro who has others pre-fish for him, gather information and spots, areas that are hot etc. Would he be lazy or just a loser??
PS Someone can give you all the GPS marks in the world...you still have to know how to catch the fish.
Alan (bassnajr) 
etommy28 reply :
here is a time where I really think Glenn and Kerri are right, I fish Rodman Res. alot. by alot im mean at least once a month for the last lets say 15 year. It is not a place you can just run with out every being there, if you go a foot out side the channel you will become good friends with a log and some times floaters make it into the channel and there are logs in the channel you cant see expect in low water. but then you see guides running through the stump field like its nothing, so i would love to know where these running lanes are.
Tin reply :
QuotePersonally I look at it as cheating and you should put your own time into the lake, find your own areas and patterns.
I was wondering about the fishing and spots, not driving a boat. If you don't know how don't run it, or drive it at headway speed.
fishfordollars reply :
Prefishing is about learning how to navigate new water, locating fish, setting patterns.
It should not be about:
Hiring a guide to put you on fish.
Following a guide.
Having a local prefish for you(For pay of course).
Acquiring GPS cordinates and having them checked daily.
Who can pay the most for information.
Who has developed the group with the most current data.
Unfortunately it is done regularly on all the circuits.
TimJ reply :
Im not arguing legalities or morals...but, a flyover, especially in a helicopter, would be way more detailed than google earth. with clear water and a high sun, weedbeds, sandbars, etc would just jump out at you. hovering the chopper would grab some nice waypoints.
Gatorbassman reply :
I don't agree with hiring a guide at all. But if any of you ever come to Clarks Hill to prefish you better be getting in touch with me. That lake can tear you to shreds. A lot of the bottom is only 2ft deep and you will still be in the middle of the lake.
When I'm preparing for a tournament I do call guides that I know. I'm looking for general information so I don't have to pack a garage of tackle into my boat and truck.
Wesley reply :
I dont see it as a problem, unless it is specificaly prohibited in a tournaments rules then there is nothing you can do about it.
You go out there and you fish your game let them find thier own.
No matter what a guide shows them they have to go out and catch the fish on tournament day and they have to deal with whats changed since they went out.
Catt reply :
QuoteI dont see it as a problem, unless it is specifically prohibited in a tournaments rules then there is nothing you can do about it.You go out there and you fish your game let them find thier own.
No matter what a guide shows them they have to go out and catch the fish on tournament day and they have to deal with whats changed since they went out.
Well put
In just about every tournament trail here in Texas there are Guides, Semi-Pros & Pros, so on any given day you better be on top of your game just to cash a check.
I have no problem having someone show you around an unfamiliar lake because the first day of pre-fishing I'll spend boat riding more than actual fishing.
fishfordollars reply :
Wesley we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I can understand it if it is on a lake you are somewhat familiar with, but explain this to me.
Pick a lake you are not familiar with, Rayburn, Palestine, Choke, Fork, etc.
Lake is off limits from Sunday night until Friday morning practice. Weather fronts have moved through several times over the last five days, water is up, and turning off color. Winds expected to blow(Naturally).
You do your home work like map study, internet searches, and possibly call a few friends to gather as much information as possible. You hit the lake Friday morning with map in hand and spend time learning how to navigate unfamiliar water. You pick a creek and start fishing down it, run into a big flat searching for the first drop, and you fish it a while. You have caught a couple and punch in the GPS cordinates, make a run up or down lake and fish some more spots. This takes up the day and you feel pretty good about it. You have located four spots as possibilities.
Another competitor has hired a guide for the day. He lets his paying customer know in advance the most promising lures to have tied on. That first creek you found a few fish in is in fact a good one. Instead of fishing the 100-200 yard section you took the time to fish the guide runs straight to the sweet spot, lines the boat up, and tells you what to throw, and where; took him 15 minutes. You write the cordinates down and the guide moves on, stopping over a submerged tree out off the river in 30' and lets you mark it. When the day is over, you have 22 coordinates, the hot lures, shortcuts through the flats, timber, and creeks. He has paid the guide, and offered him a percentage of the winnings from tommorrows tournament. The guide says, "Well, if that's the case, let me show you my best spots and the time you need to be there".
I would like you, or anyone else explain how you feel this is fair, or an even playing field.
I have no problem fishing against guides. Do it all the time. I do have a problem with competitors hiring a guide to fish with during the prefish.
***Not all guides are good tournament fishermen either***
Thanks,
Jack
Wesley reply :
Jack its not fair in that context. Most tournaments that have an offical off limits period and an offical practice period are going to have rules against useing guides during practice days. If they do not then really there is nothing illegal about it and we all have to deal with it. People are going to use every advantage they can get out there. Doenst make it always right, my point was there is no use letting it get into your head and affecting your game plan.
fishfordollars reply :
OK, I agree with you on that. Personally I never let it get to me. Just think it ought to not be allowed. Then we would see which anglers have it together.
Catt reply :
Jack & Wesley that is my point exactly
There are some big name Pros I dislike for the very reason they done this in the past & then bragged about how great they are.
salmicropterus reply :
I think there are a lot of legitimate points of view on both sides of this discussion. For me, I book out my whole year's schedule pretty much at the beginning of the year. If I've got a tournament at a totally unfamilar place what I try to do is get there for a day or two, about 2-3 months in advance, just so I am not wasting so much time getting around when the actual pre-fish time occurs, more proximate to the tournament. I have hired guides to do this-just show me the lay of the land also and to Keri's point, particularly down here in Florida, to show where's not safe to do or go. I don't feel a compelling need to bust off a lower unit to show I'm a good sport. That said, during actual pre-fish, I'd rather find my own spots and figure out my own game plan rather than get a predetermined mindset and not have lot's of Plan Bs. But, if it's within the rules, then it's ok by me if someone else does it- if you don't like it work to get the rule changed or don't fish that trail anymore.
BTW, all of the pros I know are meticulous about not violating the "no non-public information" black-out period that all of the top circuits have.
South FLA reply :
QuoteJack & Wesley that is my point exactlyThere are some big name Pros I dislike for the very reason they done this in the past & then bragged about how great they are.
Say it ain't so, its like taking Steroids in my book!
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