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dumbbasses reply :

OK, I've just read the following rules on the ABA website regarding the new ABA/ BASS Weekender Series, blah, blah, blah- before I give my 2 cents, whaddaya think?

Is ABA fair or too thin-skinned/insecure? What's "reasonable"? What if it is a legitimate attack upon the integrity of a tournament official? It could be...stranger things have happened...!! Kick it around...

EXCERPT

Accordingly, it is an obligation of competitors to refrain from comments to the news media that unreasonably attack or disparage the integrity of tournaments, tournament officials, sponsors, fellow members, fellow anglers, or the BASS and ABA organization. Competitors are encouraged to express themselves and have the right to question the rules officials. Responsible expressions of legitimate disagreement with ABA policies are encouraged as opposed to attacks u0on the integrity of tournament rules or officials. However, public comments that an angler knows, or should know, will harm the reputation of BASS and ABA, ABA officials or sponsors shall be considered conduct unbecoming a professional and will result in disciplinary action.

It's the RULE under consideration, not the organization, ... :-/

Its a big one reply :

spank me on the butt!

PutPut reply :

It's up and it's good ;D How about that.Now all those guy's who have their own way of thinking or believe that they have Freedom of Speach and belong to this Org. guess again.What's next a formal inspection by the all mighty General Directer, boy wont they fight over that job.Maybe them directers now will make extra money cutting the legs out from under an angler for speaking his mind.Looks like they will have to build a biger Hall of Fame. :'(

dumbbasses reply :

Exactly, does the rule have too much of a "chilling" effect or does ABA have a right to muzzle anglers who disagree with their point of view? After all, they have the last word, it's their game... it's definitely a "play by my rules or I'll take my ball and go home..." situation. And really, it's not even a question of whether or not they can do it...sure they can...but, will anglers scatter or be attracted by the "edict"?

PutPut reply :

I guess what it means is they are going to have a bunch of blond hair,blue eyed anglers that don't say much ;D

R Tilson reply :

Here is where the rule came from;

MEDIA COMMENTS, PUBLIC ATTACKS

The favorable public reputation of BASS as a sanctioning organization in the sport of fishing, the integrity of its officials, and the reputation of its media properties are valuable assets and tangible benefits for BASS. Accordingly, it is an obligation of competitors to refrain from comments to the news media that unreasonably attack or disparage the integrity of tournaments, tournament officials, sponsors, fellow members, fellow anglers or the BASS organization. Competitors are encouraged to express themselves and have the right to question the rules officials. Responsible expressions of legitimate disagreement with BASS policies are encouraged as opposed to attacks upon the integrity of the rules or officials. However, public comments that an angler knows, or should reasonably know, will harm the reputation of BASS, BASS officials or sponsors shall be considered conduct unbecoming a professional and will result in disciplinary action.

This was taken out of the BASS rules. Since the winner of the Weekend Series Championship will go to the BASS Classic they have a say in the rules.

FLW has the same rule just written differently;

8. Sportsmanship

All contestants are required to follow high standards of sportsmanship, courtesy and conservation and to conduct themselves in a manner that will be a credit to themselves, to FLW Outdoors, FLW Outdoors' sponsors, the sport of fishing and FLW Outdoors' efforts to promote the sport. Examples of conduct not complying with those standards includes, but is not limited to, the following:

Violation of, or failure to comply with, any of the official rules for the 2007 Wal-Mart FLW Tour.

Consumption and/or possession of alcoholic beverages or any kind of mind-altering substance during registration, the pretournament meeting or during tournament hours extending through the weigh-in procedure.

Abuse of, or addiction to, mind-altering substances.

Conviction of a felony within the past 36 months.

Suspension/disqualification from any tournament or fishing organization.

Any other words, conduct or actions reflecting unfavorably upon efforts to promote safety, sportsmanship, fair competition and compliance with tournament rules, or which fail to comply with the standards set forth in the first sentence of paragraph 8.

In case of any conduct not complying with the standards, FLW Outdoors shall have the right to refuse any application, or to deny a confirmed application, by returning the entry fee of a previously accepted application, or to disqualify a contestant.

From BassMaxx;

7. Sportsmanship and Conduct: All contestants are required to follow high standards of sportsmanship, courtesy, and conservation and to conduct themselves in a manner that will be a credit to themselves, to Bass Maxx, LLC, sponsors, the sport of fishing and Bass Maxx, LLC efforts to promote that sport. Examples of conduct not complying with those standards include, but are not limited to, the following: 1) Consumption and/or possession of alcoholic beverages or any mind-altering substance during tournament hours extending through the weigh-in procedure, 2) Abuse of, or addiction to, mind altering substances, 3) Conviction of a felony within the past 36 months, 4) Any other words, conduct or actions reflecting unfavorably on Bass Maxx, LLC. Bass Maxx tournaments or the sponsors of those tournaments or reflecting unfavorably upon efforts to promote safety, sportsmanship, fair competition and compliance with tournament rules. If conduct does not comply with the standards set forth, Bass Maxx, LLC., and its director shall have the right to refuse any application, or to deny a confirmed application, by returning the deposit or entry fee of a previously accepted application, or disqualify a contestant. Bass Maxx, LLC reserves the right to place an official observer in a contestant's boat at any time during competition hours.

A lot the tours are starting to have this rule with media exposure the way it is today.

dumbbasses reply :

Understood Rick, it's like the old 55 mph speed limit...

It can be the rule but we don't have to like it...and eventually... things change. Where are we today? 70 MPH?!!

Back to the question...stifling or not? Do they want a bunch of automatons? What about the "fair haired angler" whose hero is "FIFTY CENT" - talk about losers...BUT, That was his answer...is that a good reflection on the professional anglers...FIFTY CENT...do we need to recap what HE stands for...cop killing, etc.... National Television... what an embarrassment...

Every organization can have the rule, just like every state had the speed limit? The question is, "What's your stance?" There's no right or wrong, just opinions, got one?

Its a big one reply :

is ike still fishing b.a.s.s. : he sure acted like a pro. at the classic.

Hillbilly_Hooker reply :

I'll post my opinion about this. For anyone that doesn't like the rules, the divisions, the organizations, etc., etc., and for all those that love to bash B.A.S.S., FLW, ABA, or whoever... there's a very simple solution. If you don't like the organization, the tour, the locations, the officials, the anglers, whatever.... then don't fish the event.

5bass reply :

Quote
For anyone that doesn't like the rules, the divisions, the organizations, etc., etc., and for all those that love to bash B.A.S.S., FLW, ABA, or whoever... there's a very simple solution. If you don't like the organization, the tour, the locations, the officials, the anglers, whatever.... then don't fish the event.

That about sums it up.

R Tilson reply :

My opinion on the rule;

Yes, it is a good rule and I would encourge very trail to have a simular one. Would I have said that 2 years ago, no I would have thought it harsh. My reason for now for saying yes is because of a situation that occured at a tournament this past year that I was fishing. I personally watch an angler that had showed up late charge the tournament director cussing up a storm at him very loadly telling him he was going to kick his @%! for not letting him in. Hence the rule would mean being disbanned from the trail and following him to other trails and those trails not letting him fish in theirs either. The certain angler that pulled this stunt fishes the Stren Series, BFL, Southern Open, and Weekend Series when it comes to the lake he fishes. I'd love nothing more than to see someone of this nature permentally DQ'ed. Kinda like a FIFTY CENT angler.

PutPut reply :

The big problem I have with some of the rules is that they are not used the same for every one.When a directer or who ever you want to call him can do as he see's fit without the afteraffect of the"RULES"meaning that he can do as he pleases but yet get down on an angler for a complaint he may have.Telling him if he don't like it go away then when you go to the powers that be and they wont even try to resolve the problem.I ask you don't you think people would like to be members of an org.where the rules apply to every one the same???????????????? >

Its a big one reply :

putput... something like that happen to me by a aba director you seen it on another post i'm shure. he said all kind of rude thing to me i reported it he still working for the aba. i guess it depends on who you are

cravenfish reply :

I think there are a few guys on here that spend more time looking for reasons not to go fishing then just keeping their mouths shut and fishing well.They sure don't sound like real men who enjoy fishing. Maybe they just cant do well in a tournament situation, and they find it eaiser to bash them then fish them.

Its a big one reply :

i fish 3 time a week at the least. i love fishing. fished over 30 aba tournaments in the last 3 years alone. and there no telling how many other tournaments i fished. i'm just telling my experinces and what i seen. after all this is a info site. you don't have to fish tournaments to go fishing.

Banor reply :

Your wife is on her way out the door to go to work. It's raining cats and dogs outside and you notice she forgot her umbrella in the corner. Do you remind her she needs her umbrella or shrug and say "I'm not a weatherman, who am I to tell her it's raining?". I personally am going to give her the umbrella and remind her it's raining. But hey, that's just me.

Pick your analogy. The point is if you see something is wrong, do you let your friend, brother, forum member asking questions go blindly into it? Ask Raul, RoLo, RW, LBH or any of the mods if they'd let any one of you make equipment choices based on misinformation? I doubt it. Tournament Trails are no different.

I've never been good at discretion so you are going to get my opinion straight forward. I expect the same from anyone else responding to my questions on here. Give it to me straight, unless I ask otherwise .

If you want an informational web site you have to be willing to take both sides of the information.

All that being said.... back to the question of the thread. I flat out abhore the ABA in it's current state. This rule, however is not anything new and is definately not ABA specific and I'd wager to say this is a BASS rule being handed down to ABA.

Do I agree with this rule? No. So I'll just add it to the list of things I dont like about ABA. It's not a straw that breaks the camel's back though. That back was broken months ago.

Zel... reply :

Quote
That about sums it up.

I disagree.

I personally like to know what other anglers think about an organization before I decide to join or fish an event. I like reading both the good and the bad. I like, as is the case right here in this thread in BR, when an angler voices a concern about an organization and an official offers a rebuttal or clarification.

I think most of us here can make a reasonable decision when presented with both sides of a situation. If I just read what the organization states, then from those appearances all is roses but we all know things are not completely rosy. Many of us know there is favoritism shown at times, the rules are interpreted differently depending on who you are, rules are not followed on a consistent basis, or at times nothing is done depending upon how much hassle the situation causes the organization. I've fished tournament for over 15 years in various organizations and have seen it happen, and it has happened to me.

Yes, ultimately if I don't like the organization, the tour, the locations, the officials, the anglers, or whatever, I won't fish the event. But how do we know if we don't like an organization when anglers are unable to voice their discontent over legitimate concerns.

Mr. Tilson, I am curious about something. I don't wish to put you on the spot, and know it's not an ABA situation, but since you are obviously in favor of this clause, I would like to hear your opinion. If you don't wish to respond, it's quite alright.

Situation.

I once fished in a BASS state Regional Federation tournament. The winners would move on to the Divisional.

There were two different tournaments going out of the same marina at around the same time. Three boats from our tournament left with the other tournament, and those boats got approximately 1/2 hour of extra fishing time than the rest of us. These were seasoned tournament anglers who should have know better, and know you don't leave until your boat number is called and you pass the checkpoint with livewells opened. A protest was filed. The officials decided weeks later that nothing would be done and no action would be taken over the protest. All we were told from the officials is the situation was discussed by the organization and their decision was final. One of the anglers of those three boats moved on to the Divisional.

But we knew the real reasons why nothing was done (we were told "unofficially"). There was some confusion at the time of blast off. The angler who was moving up was a well liked and a well respected individual. Trophies, money, and media information was already given out. The people running the tournaments were volunteers, and it is hard to find people willing to do so much for so little, and they didn't want to offend them.

But lets face it, their decision was ultimately wrong and unfair, regardless of their good intentions. And there was no recourse on our part.

So, in this situation, why should I not be allowed to complain about the organization?

R Tilson reply :

All,

First, let's understand I am not a Director for the Weekend Series. Second, my opinions or comments on dealings with the Weekend Series are from Rick Tilson the fisherman not based on any organization. Third, I was not trying to clarify or rebut the original question asked, just stating that other's have the same rule. Forth, when asked for my opinion and not other organizations rules, I then gave my "opinion" and it was backed with why I agree to the rule (personel experence).

No harm, no foul just hope that it's understood where I'm coming from. If I was defending the organization, I have had many oppurtunities before this post and have not made one to date. I in fact also enjoy peoples opinions on the different trails. I to have mine but carry the message differently because I believe that we should be tackful and not bashing individuals which becomes the case more times than not.

Zel,

Now to answer your question; you should be allowed to complain about the company.

Based on the situation you described below, I would also complain about the organization and not fish that trail. How I would complain would be within reason not to cause any damage to further my fishing career. How, the same way I did with a major computer company. I called them until I was blue in the face and finally got the satisfaction I felt I desevered, which was getting a full refund in a timely manner not their policy time frame. In this situation I would be expecting a full redund on my monies also. I would also question why and how the situation was handled without making a personal attack on either the offical or organization which is within the rules guidelines.

I knew better than to even post on this thread but I did anyway. Out of 17 posts, 5 have actually had an opinion on the rule which was the original question. Yet due to my signature, I've been called out twice for my opinion. Excuse me, but from here on out I will not be posting on any more topics dealing with any tournament trail other than if someone requests dates that I may happen to know.

Thank you

Catt reply :

Bravo Mr. Tilson

This same rule applies far most major corporations, I worked for Northrop/Grumman during orientation it was explained to new hires, and we were asked if we understood it and then signed legal forms stating we understood it. Violation of this rule meant immediate termination no questions asked.

My wife has worked for Ma Bell for 35 years and this has been in effect the entire time, Bell South employees can't be drunk in public, use profanities in public, or be late on paying their phone bill.

It is not that you can't say any thing; it's saying you must use proper channels and the news media is not the proper channels. The legal ramifications associated with any large corporation are mind boggling to the average person.

Just like what was stated earlier you done have to participate.

cravenfish reply :

Well stated Mr. Tilson, Look forward to meetinr you at an ABA/Bass event.

5bass reply :

Quote

Quote
That about sums it up.

I disagree.

I personally like to know what other anglers think about an organization before I decide to join or fish an event. I like reading both the good and the bad. I like, as is the case right here in this thread in BR, when an angler voices a concern about an organization and an official offers a rebuttal or clarification.

Yes, ultimately if I don't like the organization, the tour, the locations, the officials, the anglers, or whatever, I won't fish the event. But how do we know if we don't like an organization when anglers are unable to voice their discontent over legitimate concerns.

Uhhh.....what I quoted was meant for people after they have weighed both sides.There have been several topics about the ABA/BASS topic already and there's probably not a whole lot more that can be said about it unless some new members start posting their experiences with those tournaments.

senile1 reply :

Quote
Bravo Mr. Tilson
This same rule applies far most major corporations, I worked for Northrop/Grumman during orientation it was explained to new hires, and we were asked if we understood it and then signed legal forms stating we understood it. Violation of this rule meant immediate termination no questions asked.

My wife has worked for Ma Bell for 35 years and this has been in effect the entire time, Bell South employees can't be drunk in public, use profanities in public, or be late on paying their phone bill.

It is not that you can't say any thing; it's saying you must use proper channels and the news media is not the proper channels. The legal ramifications associated with any large corporation are mind boggling to the average person.

Just like what was stated earlier you done have to participate.

Good points from Catt and the others who have shown some understanding for this rule. If you work for an organization and they are the ones providing you with a paycheck, they are going to tell you what you have to do in exchange for that paycheck, within reason. It is that simple. Also, look at the NFL, Major League Baseball, etc. Athletes aren't allowed to bash referees and officials of the league. If you become a member of any organization you are subject to that organization's rules. If the rules are too big of an issue for you, then you leave that organization.

Catt reply :

I don't personally know Mr. Tilson or Mr. Leach but I've been around tournament fishing since 1973 and I'll say these are honorable men who when given the chance will try their best to correct any wrongs in their organization. Are ABA/BASS perfectly run organizations absolutely not; then how does one help change them. By being a strong member, attending meetings, and using the proper channels of authority within the organization.

Its a big one reply :

you are wrong on who giving who a paycheck. WE give the organization a paycheck from are entry fee and memberships..... (different from NFL or baseball).... paying winnings is something fishing tournaments have to do to have a trail or (business)......... catt... i have tried the proper channel of authority with a certain organization with no results.

Catt reply :

The expenses of running a tournament trail far exceed the amount paid by entry fees. If going through the proper channels has not produced the proper results then I suggest getting the backing of the membership.

PutPut reply :

Quote
I don't personally know Mr. Tilson or Mr. Leach but I've been around tournament fishing since 1973 and I'll say these are honorable men who when given the chance will try their best to correct any wrongs in their organization. Are ABA/BASS perfectly run organizations absolutely not; then how does one help change them. By being a strong member, attending meetings, and using the proper channels of authority within the organization.

I don't know either R.Tilson or Pat Leach and I have been in tournament fishing since the early 70's and I can't make the statement you made because like you said "I don't personally know them either",

I can only pass judgement on the things I know first hand.

Nitro: I know where you are comming from ,been there done that,With out anglers I know sponsors will give up the big bucks to have no one show off their product,NOT. That is the very reason I quit fishing tournaments,too many people who think thay know more than every one else and the rules that can be changed at any time to make things look good in the trails faver even if they are wrong.

The Duke reply :

WOW! Talk about the "Complaining just to Complain" Center. Seriously, if you're going to be a "member" of my (I am not a tournament director) organization (because you are a member when you sign/pay up) you better not complain to the media, especially if you haven't talked about it with me first! I think thats the main point of this all. If you give protests to the director, they should resolve it. If you can't accept that, then don't fish with that director. If a director is flat-out wrong on multiple occasions (or treating their friends with bias) they're going to wash out; its their own backside. If there is coverage about an ABA/BASS or FLW event, don't complain about it at that time. Its wrong and unprofessional. Save it for this website or other outlets. There is enough to go around twice!

However, the complaining about BASS, ABA, FLW, Opens, etc. etc. etc. Its all redundant. Can't we just "Shut up and fish you big Baby!" like the commercial said. I want to hear about the fishing and tournaments not to hear guys say why they're so bad and then fish them, complain about them, fish them some more, complain again, fish them again, complain some more...

Does anyone like fishing tournaments for the thrill? I love it!

Duke

PutPut reply :

The man has spoken."Shut up and fish you big baby." I for one am glad I don't fish tournaments any more.If it's not what we like to hear , you can't say it.How come the one's who think that the tournament trails are all that there is in the world and they do no wrong don't do like they say.

"Shut up and go away." This is not ment to upset any one but I guess if the shoe fits.

5bass reply :

This thread has officially run its course.

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