"classic" From Lake To Weigh-In 2025
senile1 reply :
It is that time of year again when many of us are excited about the Bassmaster Classic. The locations for all of the events prompted me to think about the distances involved in moving bass to the weigh-in and back to the lake for some of our tournaments.
Oklahoma's travel guide states that Tulsa is 65 miles from Grand Lake o' the Cherokees. According to information for the "Classic" the weigh-in will be at the BOK center in Tulsa. I can't imagine that the distance involved in transporting these fish to the weigh-in is the most conducive for bass survival. The information in the article below seems to indicate otherwise, however. I was just curious what everyone else thought.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=25&articleid=20130217_25_BC12_CUTLIN401398
PABASS reply :
While they expect a 100% survival rate I am not a biologist but in my mind that is lots of stress, but to expect 100% hopefully means they know what they are doing which from the article it does sound like they do.
aharris reply :
yeah, I think with the livewells they have today, I honestly dont think the fish will have a problem. I just hope the roads arent icy bc that could make for an interesting ride back.
J Francho reply :
Pros generally run their wells in recirc mode, and are treated with something like: http://www.sure-life.com/.
I use the Sure Life products, and they work. The main thing will be keeping the temperature somewhat consistent.
buckeye12 reply :
Didnt realize it was that far from the lake to the weigh-in. Wow! They seem pretty confident though. Shouldn't be a problem.
wnybassman reply :
Really not much different than a one or two hour run from a fishing spot back to the ramp. They do that all the time.
gripnrip reply :
When they first announced the Classic was going to be in Tulsa, they had originally planned to take the anglers and fish to the BOK by helicopter. I guess they scrapped this idea.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I think in every tournament you can expect to lose a few fish, it's just going to happen. Grand has hundreds of tournaments on it every year, including all through the summer months when it's toughest to keep fish alive, and it still continues to be one of the best bass lakes in Oklahoma. I'm sure they lose way more bass in all those tournaments than they will in the Classic over the 3 days.
The thing I'm really curious about is are they going to have someone checking the livewells at take out for dead fish? I'd be really upset if I got off the water and all my fish were alive and then get penalized for a dead fish after an hour and half drive. I would imagine that could start some serious controversy if the tournament is close like I expect it to be.
Google maps shows the driving distance from Wolf Creek Ramp to the BOK Center in Tulsa to be 90.9 miles, that's a long haul with a livewell full of fish.
PondBoss reply :
I heard that at this classic there will be no penalty for dead fish due to the long drive to weigh in.
jeb2 reply :
On 2/19/2013 at 1:56 PM, PondBoss said:I heard that at this classic there will be no penalty for dead fish due to the long drive to weigh in.
Wow. While I can understand that being a good thing from the competitors point of view, I can't imagine them suspending the rules because of a problem they themselves caused. Pick lakes closer to large convention centers!
gripnrip reply :
That's totally unacceptable to me. Like bluebasser said I hope someone checks that they are alive before transporting. If one's dead before loading the boat then a penalty needs to be enforced.
senile1 reply :
On 2/19/2013 at 8:03 AM, wnybassman said:Really not much different than a one or two hour run from a fishing spot back to the ramp. They do that all the time.
In this case it is somewhat different. The fish will be in the livewell for whatever amount of time it takes to get back to the ramp, plus the amount of time to remove the boat from the water, drive to Tulsa, and remove the fish for display. Then you add the time to place the fish in the truck (or trucks) that will transport the fish back to the lake. Those trucks won't leave until the weigh-in is completed. I don't know how much time this will be but it will easily exceed two hours, and I suspect would be more in the neighborhood of 3 - 5 hours.
J Francho reply :
They could just as well catch and keep their legal limits. Certainly this effort is better than that.
senile1 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 1:53 AM, J Francho said:They could just as well catch and keep their legal limits. Certainly this effort is better than that.
Any effort is better than automatically killing the fish. The question in my mind is, "Is this effort good enough?" Maybe it is. I just would like to know the survival rate. We all know that some fish die from any tournament and that is just a part of the sport, but, considering the distance involved here I think this is a valid question. I'm sure someone involved in the event probably has a statistic indicating the expected survival rate of fish that are returned to the lake. I would like to know what that expectation is.
If the survival rate is not what it should be, then I would say the Classic should be planned in a way and at a lake where the weigh-in can be as close as possible to the lake. And in that case, having the Expo and weigh-in at Grove or Miami, OK might not support the crowds attending the event. If that were the case Grand Lake would have to be ruled out as a "Classic" location because of the distance to a large enough arena.
J Francho reply :
Bass have been transported alive as far as Hawaii, Africa, Australia, and Japan after being caught. They were transported west of the Mississippi in metal milk jugs via railway in the 1800's. I think a couple hours in holding tank, and then a truck designed for carrying fish will be fine.
BasskingKeith reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 2:21 AM, J Francho said:Bass have been transported alive as far as Hawaii, Africa, Australia, and Japan after being caught. They were transported west of the Mississippi in metal milk jugs via railway in the 1800's. I think a couple hours in holding tank, and then a truck designed for carrying fish will be fine.
Sweet historical facts.
senile1 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 2:21 AM, J Francho said:Bass have been transported alive as far as Hawaii, Africa, Australia, and Japan after being caught. They were transported west of the Mississippi in metal milk jugs via railway in the 1800's. I think a couple hours in holding tank, and then a truck designed for carrying fish will be fine.
I have read about this, but to me, these are anecdotal facts, not scientific facts. To be scientific, the percentage of fish that died in the transports noted above should be included as well. To just say that fish have been transported and survived does not answer the question.
Everyone has a right to his or her opinion. I just want to know what the expected rate of survival is, and again, I think that is a valid question. Some of you may accept any rate of survival while others may expect a more stringent requirement.
J Francho reply :
The expectation is 100% - it was in the article. What "statistic" are looking for? The event hasn't happened yet, so there's nothing to measure. If it the losses are great, I'm sure they will reevaluate their processes. That's how processes are improved.
SPEEDBEAD. reply :
I say donate the fish to a local homeless shelter. 
jeb2 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 3:10 AM, J Francho said:The expectation is 100% - it was in the article. What "statistic" are looking for? The event hasn't happened yet, so there's nothing to measure. If it the losses are great, I'm sure they will reevaluate their processes. That's how processes are improved.
You'd hope. But what bothers me the most, if it's true, is them waving the dead fish penalty. That should be enforced no matter what the outcome is.
J Francho reply :
I am on the fence with that. I get the idea of a dead fish penalty, and without it, smaller circuits and clubs will just have guys going back to buckets or stringers. Another part of me gets irritated when something completely out of my control results in a dead fish. Things like a tongue hooking, or a big smallie killing s smaller largemouth in a mixed bag. It's as if we're not just testing the best fishermen, but also the best livewellers. I know, it's part of being a steward of the water, and holding yourself to a higher standard. Just bugs me that I could have legally chucked them all in a bucket, but at least tried to keep them alive, and still get a penalty.
senile1 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 3:10 AM, J Francho said:The expectation is 100% - it was in the article. What "statistic" are looking for? The event hasn't happened yet, so there's nothing to measure. If it the losses are great, I'm sure they will reevaluate their processes. That's how processes are improved.
That settles it, then. One guy in the article I posted says that 100 percent will survive the return to the lake. I see no reason for anyone to seek more information to support that statement.
On 2/20/2013 at 3:17 AM, jeb2 said:You'd hope. But what bothers me the most, if it's true, is them waving the dead fish penalty. That should be enforced no matter what the outcome is.
That is an excellent question. I have never really concerned myself with the distances or methods involved in protecting the resource before because I was never aware of anything like the distance factor where Tulsa and Grand Lake are concerned. In most cases, I think the chemicals used and the temperature control in the livewells is more than enough to protect the fish. In this case, however, an angler could do everything in his power to keep the fish alive and, possibly through factors he can't control, the fish could still end up dead at the podium.
J Francho reply :
QuoteThat settles it, then. One guy in the article I posted says that 100
percent will survive the return to the lake. I see no reason for anyone
to seek more information to support that statement.
Well, maybe they will consult a psychic. There's nothing you can do except wait for the results. The expectation is 100%. That's their stated target. I'm sure they have a "real" expectation. I think the average stated survival rate is around 90%, so that would be a good pass/fail benchmark. But outside of that, what information could you possibly be provided? The event hasn't happened yet. I guess I'm struggling to understand what special magic bullet of info you are looking for. They have aerated, sometimes oxygen injected live-wells. There are chemicals like Sure Life that help reduce stress on the fish. There is a recuperating tank. There are trucks with fish hauling tanks. I can't think of anything else you could want, or anything else they could do?
Or maybe you're simply against this type of tournament altogether, and are using this as a sticking point?
J Francho reply :
That sounds snotty, sorry about that. I really don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. Certainly not as big a deal as the losses on Falcon a couple years ago. They were totally unprepared, and that was disgraceful.
jeb2 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 3:30 AM, J Francho said:I am on the fence with that. I get the idea of a dead fish penalty, and without it, smaller circuits and clubs will just have guys going back to buckets or stringers. Another part of me gets irritated when something completely out of my control results in a dead fish.
I understand. But from my point of view, if the pros get hammered with the penalties, that'll be another voice for a change to this kind of long haul to the venue format. If they are actually suspending the penalty, it also tells me they are expecting a lot of loss, despite whatever they may be saying publically.
J Francho reply :
Yeah, that thought occurred to me too. I'm thinking many pros voiced their concern over the haul being "out of their control," and this was an olive branch. Up here, for one the opens on Oneida, they did the final weigh in at BPS in Auburn, which is quite a distance from the Oneida Shores launch. A ton of local anglers howled about it, though I don't recall any major mortality issues after that tournament.
Long Mike reply :
Although the distance is long, the great majority of the route is turnpike, with a speed limit of 75 mph. I drive it at 80 all of the time and have never had any problem with the Authorities. The only caveat is that there is a toll booth about half way along the route which can become very congested unless one has a "Pike-Pass," which is an electronic device that allows one to go through the booth without slowing down. Let's hope all of the Pros have been given one.
PABASS reply :
Its wasteful plain and simple how can you be PRO environment and do this, nope I don't like it one bit.
senile1 reply :
On 2/20/2013 at 3:51 AM, J Francho said:That sounds snotty, sorry about that. I really don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. Certainly not as big a deal as the losses on Falcon a couple years ago. They were totally unprepared, and that was disgraceful.
Thanks, John. (Or is it Jon. Sorry if I am spelling your name wrong.) I hope I am not coming across snotty either.
I know this can be a touchy subject and I am not against tournaments at all. I follow the Classic every year. I truly believe our professional angling brethren do all in their power to protect the resource, but I also believe that asking the difficult questions and revisiting the actions we take to protect the resource are how we improve and keep something like Falcon from happening again. I would rather ask these questions here where all of us understand that some fish die no matter our efforts, rather than asking it in front of people who don't understand why we do what we do. We are all in this together and a black eye for any tournament is a black eye for all of us.
scrutch reply :
Leave the cull tags on the fish, throw them all in the DNR tanker trucks at the launch. Once everyone has loaded the fish, haul them to the arena, redistribute the fish and do the weigh-in.
Or weigh the fish at the launch to eliminate confusion redistributing the fish at the arena. Then have a "show" weigh-in for the crowds.
J Francho reply :
Hmmm. That could be feasible. What is the cut on the final day?
Dinky reply :
Just a few thoughts on this and then I'm moving on.
1.The idea of waiving the 'dead fish rule' due to the travel time has some merit insofar as keeping the playing field as level as possible for the competitors---though it would seem it has little merit as far as 'overall survival rate'.
2.The overall 'survival rate' is difficult to determine when you consider it would include fish that ultimately died -say 12 hours after being released into the lake.
3.The real issue will be what additional level of stress is put on the fish by transporting from the lake to the weigh in in Tulsa. This will definitley require some extensive scientific investigation(read expensive and time consuming).
4.Meanwhle, our complaints, unaided by unbiased scientific facts, will surley serve only to spure the radical fringe who want to do away with sport fishing all together.
In Germany, per a media rep from Germany at media day today ; there is no sport fishing in Germany-must eat what you catch-catch and release is a crime or soon will be in Germany.
J Francho reply :
There are places in EU that are "catch and eat." I know friends that fish there. They catch and release. No one is handing out citations for it.
PondBoss reply :
I think waiving the penalty for dead fish at the weigh in is perfectly fine. Check the fish before they leave for the weigh in to make sure they are alive, if they have a dead one then penalize, if one dies in transport then no penalty. It's gonna be a tough long ride back, in my experience living in Tulsa for a couple of years you may travel 87 of the 90 mile trip in 1hr 20 minutes, but the last 3 miles when you hit Tulsa may take another hour. Plus lets not forget the sweet cold front that has hit us here. They will be being transported back in 8-10 inches of water at less than 45 degrees. Granted the cold should help slow the fishes body down a bit, but I'm sure the mortality rate will be more than fine. They are shooting for releasing 100% alive fish, that's all you can ask for.
OkobojiEagle reply :
It's a bit naive to think that the bass' well being is of most importance to tournament fishing.
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