BASS Versus FLW 2024
Montanaro reply :
Can we put this to rest once and for all?
40 Top BPT anglers fishing today...
5 of them were with FLW immediately prior to BPT.
1 of them is in the top 20.
35 were with BASS.
87% versus 13%
Come at me bro
Troy85 reply :
I wish I had some popcorn in my desk!
EWREX reply :
this should be interesting ????
Swbass15 reply :
Only response is that it’s the first tourney, I would like to see year end where folks are. The greatest KVD is currently 14 spots below the cut.
A-Jay reply :
Always seems like the same deal.
1/3 of the field has mediocre success, 1/3 hammers them pretty good, and the final third struggles to catch a handful of 'scorable bass' (I love say'in that btw).
May not matter which three letter organization they are or have been associated with.
A-Jay
Montanaro reply :
Stats don't lie. 1/3 this a 1/3 that....
7/8ths of BASS made top 40 cut.
FLW guys flopped. KVD made top 40 cut which is more than I can say for the 40 sitting at home right now. FACT
Troy85 reply :
There are only 20 that have been cut so far. The first 20 were cut yesterday, and the 2nd 20 will be cut today. As of now KVD is in 35th place in the 2nd group, in 30 minutes he will be cut if we doesn't move up.
Montanaro reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 3:59 AM, Troy85 said:There are only 20 that have been cut so far. The first 20 were cut yesterday, and the 2nd 20 will be cut today. As of now KVD is in 35th place in the 2nd group, in 30 minutes he will be cut if we doesn't move up.
d**n all.these rounds are confusing
Troy85 reply :
I hear ya. I have trouble keeping track of the MLF cup events every week, by the time the newest episode has aired, I've just about forgotten what happened the week before.
They cut 20 today from group B, then combine the two groups for the final 40 tomorrow, then I think it cuts to top 10 for the final day.
Montanaro reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 4:05 AM, Troy85 said:I hear ya. I have trouble keeping track of the MLF cup events every week, by the time the newest episode has aired, I've just about forgotten what happened the week before.
They cut 20 today from group B, then combine the two groups for the final 40 tomorrow, then I think it cuts to top 10 for the final day.
As it stands then....its looking even worse for those FLW scrubs
Swbass15 reply :
I wouldn’t call them scrubs I’m roughly guessing but 3/4 of the field was BASS last year so numbers should be lopsided their way. Don’t for get Christie Tharp MJD are some that had very successful FLW careers and made a jump. Hard for me to bash on a group simply because they weren’t “elite” last year. Final year end standings will show how strong those anglers are.
TnRiver46 reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 3:32 AM, A-Jay said:Always seems like the same deal.
1/3 of the field has mediocre success, 1/3 hammers them pretty good, and the final third struggles to catch a handful of 'scorable bass' (I love say'in that btw).
May not matter which three letter organization they are or have been associated with.
A-Jay
Hahahaha we have picked up in some of your videos that you like to say “scoreable” bass
TnRiver46 reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 4:03 AM, Montanaro said:
d**n all.these rounds are confusing
Amen
Montanaro reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 4:30 AM, Swbass15 said:I wouldn’t call them scrubs I’m roughly guessing but 3/4 of the field was BASS last year so numbers should be lopsided their way. Don’t for get Christie Tharp MJD are some that had very successful FLW careers and made a jump. Hard for me to bash on a group simply because they weren’t “elite” last year. Final year end standings will show how strong those anglers are.
Which proves the point that those guys outgrew FLW and moved to greener pastures.
And if we proportionate the two tours in BPT we would still see a statistically significant difference in their performance.
Logan S reply :
Pre-BPT, I don't think many would argue that the BASS roster was better...But I will say this, the FLW tour had a considerably larger field (150+ vs 100-ish) and no matter who the anglers are, larger tournament are always harder to win. FLW being semi-open also means top local sticks could also be at each event trying to jackpot it. BASS had the better roster, but difficulty-wise I don't think the FLW was too far behind.
I think many of the FLW pros that jumped to the Elites and now BPT are better for having fished through the FLW trail. I also think that some of the FLW pros that jumped to the Elites for 2019 will be standouts as well.
Lyman X reply :
I'm gonna need a schematic.
Montanaro reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 8:04 AM, Logan S said:Pre-BPT, I don't think many would argue that the BASS roster was better...But I will say this, the FLW tour had a considerably larger field (150+ vs 100-ish) and no matter who the anglers are, larger tournament are always harder to win. FLW being semi-open also means top local sticks could also be at each event trying to jackpot it. BASS had the better roster, but difficulty-wise I don't think the FLW was too far behind.
I think many of the FLW pros that jumped to the Elites and now BPT are better for having fished through the FLW trail. I also think that some of the FLW pros that jumped to the Elites for 2019 will be standouts as well.
I think all those canadian boys will tear up BASS
Way north bass guy reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 8:53 AM, Montanaro said:
I think all those canadian boys will tear up BASS
I agree, it’s gonna be fun to watch. Those guys can flat out catch em! ????????
Montanaro reply :
Score Tracker Update:
Top 40 actually only has 3 (THREE) FLW pros
Logan S reply :
I'm not really sure what your point is. Seems like it's just to put down a group of pro anglers for the tour they used to fish with...If that's the case, maybe posting up your own trophy case might be in order - To lend some credibility to your claims.
It's 1 event and it's not even over yet. Several top tier anglers didn't make the cut at all, including KVD.
Montanaro reply :
Hey look at that, I got a bite, should I set the hook or shake him off?
Don't need to be a rocket surgeon to know that North Koreas missle program sucks.
And if we went by perceived ability we would just rank anglers by reputation and not even fish. KVD still finished ahead of most FLW anglers and he is headed into his golden years.
Fact: FLW is a BASS feeder organization.
Fact: 3 FLW guys made the cut of 40 and they arent doing well right now.
(If we want to.be serious we can discuss that BPT doesnt have Thrift Martin Gustafson or the Johnstons among others or the fact that BPT has a large disproportion of BASS to FLW or that FLW Jeff Sprague makes #4 and is leading the event but I see nobody has connected those dots yet).
Logan S reply :
On 2/2/2019 at 4:11 AM, Montanaro said:
As it stands then....its looking even worse for those FLW scrubs
FLW Tour still pays over $100k for winning...And many of their top guys left for BPT. Why aren't you out there taking their money then? They're scrubs, right?
I'm aware of who the BPT has and doesn't have and the flaws (my opinion) in their selection process, I'm not even really a fan of BPT or FLW...But I can't understand why someone with no qualifications is trying to downplay anglers that clearly have made a living in bass fishing.
Troll on and enjoy.
Hawkeye21 reply :
What is the point of this other than to be an instigator and stir the pot?
Montanaro reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 12:48 AM, Logan S said:FLW Tour still pays over $100k for winning...And many of their top guys left for BPT. Why aren't you out there taking their money then? They're scrubs, right?
I'm aware of who the BPT has and doesn't have and the flaws (my opinion) in their selection process, I'm not even really a fan of BPT or FLW...But I can't understand why someone with no qualifications is trying to downplay anglers that clearly have made a living in bass fishing.
Troll on and enjoy.
Just playing devils advocate is all. If you want to be salty and delve into ad hominem rather than fully express the ideas you are hinting at then go right ahead.
Clearly there is a perception and I have seen it expressed on many platforms that FLW is subpar. This BPT is as close to a natural experiment as we have got despite its flaws.
Is FLW a stepping stone? Will BASS be? Does lack of marketing potential in FLW kill its chances of being better?
Way north bass guy reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 12:55 AM, Hawkeye21 said:What is the point of this other than to be an instigator and stir the pot?
Seems like some guys just can’t be happy for others, maybe it’s jealousy, but either way why even bother to get riled up about something as ridiculous as what tournament series a guy started in. Seems like extra stress that nobody needs to have, just chill out and enjoy watching guys catch some decent bass in their shorts! ( won’t be doing that here for months yet.
Montanaro reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 1:06 AM, Way north bass guy said:Seems like some guys just can’t be happy for others, maybe it’s jealousy, but either way why even bother to get riled up about something as ridiculous as what tournament series a guy started in. Seems like extra stress that nobody needs to have, just chill out and enjoy watching guys catch some decent bass in their shorts! ( won’t be doing that here for months yet.
I actually enjoy FLW a lot and was more into their fantasy fishing than BASS.
If none of you can articulate why FLW has merit or that my 'perception' is flawed other than by saying "I am jelous or I dont make a living fishing" then maybe those who actually hold such 'perceptions' are correct?
Logan S reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 12:59 AM, Montanaro said:
Just playing devils advocate is all. If you want to be salty and delve into ad hominem rather than fully express the ideas you are hinting at then go right ahead.
Clearly their is a perception and I have seen it expressed on many platforms that FLW is subpar. This BPT is as close to a natural experiment as we have got despite its flaws.
Is FLW a stepping stone? Will BASS be? Does lack of marketing potential in FLW kill its chances of being better?
You're not playing devil's advocate when you start the thread yourself...And no one has really disagreed that FLW was a step below BASS prior to the BPT-exodus.
Also, I expressed my thoughts clearly in my first post in the thread. BASS and FLW will continue to be what they always were. New guys will come in, some will leave - same as it's always been. Back in the early 2000's all the top talent went to FLW when they were throwing crazy sponsor money around (not too different than the BPT thing now) and many said BASS was done...They weren't. They aren't done now either and neither is FLW.
Montanaro reply :
BASS are airing a week of special shows in advance of their tournament this week. I certainly think there has been a lot of damage control done.
What anglers left bass for FLW in the early 2000's?
Does FLW's typical schedule limit the versatility of their anglers? I know they fish the big O a good bit but BASS spends more time in vegetative waters...can this account for the disparity in this tournament?
Team9nine reply :
I don't think it's quite as easily distinguishable as FLW guys vs BASS guys. With just a couple exceptions, nearly everyone in the 40 man knockout round fishing today has an extensive FLW resume. Combined, the 40 guys fishing have over 2500+ FLW events under their belts and over $10 million in FLW winnings. Which side they came from when the BPT roster was announced isn't a fair way to judge IMO due to the politics involved in the selection process. You could also argue the same in regards to past history within the sport going back to the Erwin Jacobs days. That said, I don't disagree with the general opinion that seems to prevail considering FLW as a less stout field in general and a feeder for BASS, but it's hard to compare 'apples to apples' IMO.
Montanaro reply :
What politics were involved in BPT selection? Mostly BASS memebrs on their B.O.D. wanting guys they are familiar with?
I would like to see a breakdown of BPT anglers with FLW experience versus no experience
Team9nine reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 1:37 AM, Montanaro said:What politics were involved in BPT selection? Mostly BASS memebrs on their B.O.D. wanting guys they are familiar with?
I would like to see a breakdown of BPT anglers with FLW experience versus no experience
It was a deliberate attempt to take down BASS, not an effort to get the best anglers in the world all on one playing field. Only after they had some turn downs from the original invites did a few more FLW anglers get brought on.
There was a time when FLW "owned" BASS, and they were just a single acquisition and decision away from being "THE" professional bass fishing circuit. There was also a period of time when most pros fished both circuits, and the world was a much happier (or at least less divided) place.
EDIT: what do you mean by experience vs no experience? There are only a handful of guys fishing today from that 40 that have not fished an FLW event. Most have 5 years or more of FLW events under their belt.
Way north bass guy reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 1:15 AM, Montanaro said:
If none of you can articulate why FLW has merit or that my 'perception' is flawed other than by saying "I am jelous or I dont make a living fishing" then maybe those who actually hold such 'perceptions' are correct?
Nobody’s saying anything about “merit”, only you. Who cares, it’s just guys fishing bass tournaments! Why do some people just have to be “right”, if you need that to be happy, then here, YOU WIN!, you clearly want this thread to go only your way, so it’s all yours. Just give it up man, there’s lots of people that are gonna have a different opinion than you, I’m not sure why this thread was even started other than to argue with others.
Montanaro reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 2:24 AM, Way north bass guy said:Nobody’s saying anything about “merit”, only you. Who cares, it’s just guys fishing bass tournaments! Why do some people just have to be “right”, if you need that to be happy, then here, YOU WIN!, you clearly want this thread to go only your way, so it’s all yours. Just give it up man, there’s lots of people that are gonna have a different opinion than you, I’m not sure why this thread was even started other than to argue with others.
1. Regarding merit: look closer
2. It has nothing to do with "me being right" merely a common perception (not THE common perception) that FLW anglers are typically subpar as far as professional status is concerned and whether or not the average poster can counter argue effectively.
3. Our first exchange about Canadian anglers was more in line with the theme of this thread but somewhere along the line you decided to become offended.
4. Some people got the point of the thread immediately. But if youd like to read more threads about what the best color senko is there are sections in this forum full of them ????.
On 2/3/2019 at 1:48 AM, Team9nine said:It was a deliberate attempt to take down BASS, not an effort to get the best anglers in the world all on one playing field. Only after they had some turn downs from the original invites did a few more FLW anglers get brought on.
There was a time when FLW "owned" BASS, and they were just a single acquisition and decision away from being "THE" professional bass fishing circuit. There was also a period of time when most pros fished both circuits, and the world was a much happier (or at least less divided) place.
EDIT: what do you mean by experience vs no experience? There are only a handful of guys fishing today from that 40 that have not fished an FLW event. Most have 5 years or more of FLW events under their belt.
Thanks for sharing, I didnt hear anything about deliberate attempts to destroy BASS...it may well end up.that way in the end. I know FLW doesnt even do Fantasy fishing anymore so they must be feeling an impact.
As for experience: I assume many of the young guns do not have FLW resumes. I would like to see a number on how many guys have 5+ years fishing FLW tour (I know of a handful) but I hesitate to say over 50% of BPT field.
Team9nine reply :
On 2/3/2019 at 3:34 AM, Montanaro said:
As for experience: I assume many of the young guns do not have FLW resumes. I would like to see a number on how many guys have 5+ years fishing FLW tour (I know of a handful) but I hesitate to say over 50% of BPT field.
For simplicity sake, if we just figure that there are 8-10 tourneys a year depending on qualifying for championships, etc., anyone with around 50 or so FLW events would likely have at least 5 years of FLW tour events under their belts. Using that as the guideline, and just looking at the 40 guys fishing today in the knockout round, you end up with the following:
Name (# FLW events fished)
Sprague (84)
Hite (95)
Gagliardi (203)
Robinson (67)
Omori (97)
Iaconelli (65)
MDJ (46)
Montgomery (104)
Hackney (102)
Aveena (50)
Defoe (95)
Ish (102)
Ehrler (104)
Tharp (130)
Wheeler (49)
Lefebre (195)
Swindle (53)
Neal (94)
Jones (45)
B. Lane (94)
Poroznik (168)
Christie (143)
Coulter (71)
Martens (48)
C. Lane (54)
Jordon (61)
That's 26 of the 40 or 65% of the field. Not sure how that would change when you add the other 40 into the mix, but I bet it would still be close to half.
Montanaro reply :
A lot of these dudes have been fishing together for a looong time.
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