I would like to talk about a tournament rule. 2024
Glaucus reply :
In another part of the forum a thread touched on this, but it was closed before I ever saw it and had a chance to reply.
Guys, keep this thread civil PLEASE, so that moderators don't have to close it. This is a very important topic for me personally and you will see why.
I have Aspergers Syndrome. I'm very high functioning to the point where almost nobody would notice. I was even able to be a really good football player back in high school. I work full time and I have a wife and kids. I do well. My battle is internal. But one of my issues is that I suffer from anxiety on top of PTSD from something unrelated to my "developmental disorder" (I hate that it's called that).
Last year I fished my first tournaments as a co-angler... Not ONCE did I hear or see anything about a polygraph test being taken by winners. Mind you, it's a small club with very little money on the line. And that's what I want to talk about. Polygraph testing in tournaments.
My dream is to make big tournaments at some point in my life. Bass fishing is my passion and my obsession. With Aspergers, I don't think that anyone could ever accurately polygraph me. I would be having an anxiety attack during the process for absolutely no reason other than being in that situation. Those things aren't accurate. You can't use them in the court of law.
It seems that this rule would effectively eliminate people like me with special needs, as minor as mine really are, from any serious tournament fishing. That's a terrible shame and completely unfair.
Smalls reply :
Like other aspects of life, people make rules to account for the majority.
I suffer from dyslexia, and extreme adhd. I probably wouldn’t remember cheating even if I had.
Fish your tournaments, catch your fish. If it ever comes up, explain your situation. Fishin folks are generally pretty nice and understanding people, and everyone loves an “underdog”.
Sam reply :
Glacus, congratulations on the taming of your situation. Kudos to you on what you have achieved.
I have a friend whose son has the same condition and he can't hold a job; he gets into arguments with everyone about anything; he can become physically combative; and all he wants to do is sit in his mother's home's basement and play games on the computer. He does not want to work or go outside. He has had strong therapy and treatments at a specialist clinic but to no avail.
Now, let me tell you about polygraph tests in bass fishing tournaments. Only the larger tournaments with thousands on the line usually have polygraph tests. And many do not. Club tournaments; local tournaments; regional tournaments among clubs or individuals usually do not have any polygraph tests.
Some of the larger BASS and FLW tournaments have the option of polygraph testing. Some of the large private tournaments can also perform polygraph tests. But it has been my experience that these tests are few and far between.
If you are concerned about the tests just ask the tournament director before you enter the tournament if they are going to test the top three to ten winners. You will then know what to expect.
If you want to fish the tournament and there is a possibility of a polygraph test, you can consider your options. One option is in lieu of you taking the test have the tournament director agree to having your fishing partner take the test and be asked questions about you and your catches.
This will a test about you but taken by the other guy in the boat.
I have seen your situation destroy a family. Not a nice situation as the father bailed leaving the son with the mother who is having a terrible time coping with the situation.
Once again, congratulations for beating the syndrome. You deserve an award and so does your family. You are a special guy. Keep up the good work no matter the challenges.
And fish a tournament and knock it out of the park! Be sure to let us know how you do.
TOXIC reply :
Catch the winning bag first. Worry about the polygraph later. The only time I have ever seen it used was to settle a protest. The "random" statement is meant to keep options open and an honest man honest.
813basstard reply :
On 2/27/2019 at 8:12 PM, TOXIC said:Catch the winning bag first. Worry about the polygraph later. The only time I have ever seen it used was to settle a protest. The "random" statement is meant to keep options open and an honest man honest.
^yeah, this. Catch a bunch and don’t cheat. That should take care of it. The way I hear most guys cheat, sounds harder than actually fishing in itself.
ohboyitsrobby reply :
I've fished quite a few $10k to win and up tournaments and never saw anyone other than the winner get tested. And the only time I've seen it be guaranteed to be tested is when folks when a boat.
Swbass15 reply :
I don’t think you should worry either or allow the fact they may test to limit the tourneys you enter. Fish your strengths and have fun. If you ever popped a random explain your condition before they start the test and hopefully they take it into account.
You have come this far without it limiting don’t let this discourage or stop you from doing. Go out and stick em, hell you never know there might be some young kid who struggles with this and you could make a positive impact for them. I say do it.
Oregon Native reply :
I like what Sam says.....keep fishing...enjoy life....and by the way....well done with what you've done and good luck.
Hawkeye21 reply :
I would say that you should bring that up to the directors of whatever tourneys you are fishing. If you win they should know what your situation is and take that into consideration. We all know that a polygraph test is not the end all be all solution but they can help. In a case like yours I would think they would need sufficient evidence to rule that you cheated in a tourney.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 2/27/2019 at 3:42 PM, Glaucus said:...It seems that this rule would effectively eliminate people like me with special needs, as minor as mine really are, from any serious tournament fishing. That's a terrible shame and completely unfair...
Don't take this the wrong way, but there is a rule in basketball that allows opponents to block your shot. That rule effectively eliminates very short people from any serious basketball competition. Would that be considered a terrible shame & completely unfair?
I would suggest looking at solutions on how you can work within the existing rules as opposed to looking to change them. As an example, any tournament that you know has polygraph testing as a possibility, go to the tournament directors prior to the tournament and explain your condition. When you tell them why a polygraph wouldn't be effective with you, at the same time give them an alternate solution to test you. Get creative with solutions, like a full time GoPro set up filming your every move. Something that makes it obvious you aren't trying to skirt the spirit of the rule, just altering the process to get to the same result (proof of not guilty). Just the fact that you approach them beforehand will go miles and you may find out they have run into this issue before and have a solution themselves.
Good Luck!
Choporoz reply :
Like many things in life, the anxiety in advance of the event can be far worse than the actual event.
Assuming the person administering the polygraph is professional and competent, you have nothing to worry about. Physiological indications will be present in control questions, so the deception indication spikes would be measured like anyone else. You will have an opportunity to explain medical, health or other things, if you choose.
Take care of things you can control....don't sweat the rest.
crypt reply :
another option is to get documentation from your Dr. about your condition and submit that prior to entering. also bring it to tournament directors attention asap.
also good luck to you on upcoming tourneys.
jbsoonerfan reply :
I doubt I could pass a lie detector either, I just don't have anything to blame it on other than the fact that I simply don't lie so if I did, I'm sure it would show.
J Francho reply :
@Glaucus Have you considered seeing a therapist to address your PTSD? Seems like this is something you could work through in that setting, to prepare you for something as simple as answering a few questions truthfully.
Heartland reply :
everything on a polygraph is taken from a baseline, that is why they ask all the routine questions at the beginning of the test.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 1:05 AM, Heartland said:everything on a polygraph is taken from a baseline, that is why they ask all the routine questions at the beginning of the test.
That's a really good point.
I just got registered for the KBF National Championship and had to agree to this:
Polygraph Examination Agreement*
Troy85 reply :
I say go for it, and worry about that bridge IF you ever have to cross it. I'm sure you could even get a doctor to sign a document explaining your situation. You shouldn't let the possibility of having to take a polygraph hold you back.
BassNJake reply :
If you're really anxious the baseline questions will show that and the other answers would be in the "same ball park"
Questions arise when most of the questions match the baseline levels and 1 has a severely different reading.
Like others have said Chase the dream
schplurg reply :
On 2/27/2019 at 10:20 PM, OCdockskipper said:
....
I would suggest looking at solutions on how you can work within the existing rules as opposed to looking to change them. As an example, any tournament that you know has polygraph testing as a possibility, go to the tournament directors prior to the tournament and explain your condition. When you tell them why a polygraph wouldn't be effective with you, at the same time give them an alternate solution to test you. Get creative with solutions, like a full time GoPro set up filming your every move. Something that makes it obvious you aren't trying to skirt the spirit of the rule, just altering the process to get to the same result (proof of not guilty). Just the fact that you approach them beforehand will go miles and you may find out they have run into this issue before and have a solution themselves.
Good Luck!
This. Be upfront, get the knowledge you need and fish stress free. No surprises.
Glaucus reply :
On 2/27/2019 at 10:20 PM, OCdockskipper said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but there is a rule in basketball that allows opponents to block your shot. That rule effectively eliminates very short people from any serious basketball competition. Would that be considered a terrible shame & completely unfair?
I would suggest looking at solutions on how you can work within the existing rules as opposed to looking to change them. As an example, any tournament that you know has polygraph testing as a possibility, go to the tournament directors prior to the tournament and explain your condition. When you tell them why a polygraph wouldn't be effective with you, at the same time give them an alternate solution to test you. Get creative with solutions, like a full time GoPro set up filming your every move. Something that makes it obvious you aren't trying to skirt the spirit of the rule, just altering the process to get to the same result (proof of not guilty). Just the fact that you approach them beforehand will go miles and you may find out they have run into this issue before and have a solution themselves.
Good Luck!
I'll reply to everyone eventually.
I'm going to start here. I don't like your analogy. The short NBA player like Nate Robinson can compete in the league despite the odds. He could maneuver around big guys like nobody else. Same with me. I can fish. I can compete.
It would be like Nate competing and succeeding, and then being given a test to prove how he did it, failing, and officials taking everything from him. "Oh well you side stepped LBJ and sunk a fade away but if you can't answer these questions like we want you to, we're gonna have to go ahead and take those points from you."
Talent =/= cognitive ability.
Hawkeye21 reply :
I wouldn’t worry about it. I worry about taking a polygraph if I win as well because I have issues with anxiety. I like to compete too much to let it prevent me from doing it. I’ll deal with it if I ever get there.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 8:02 AM, Glaucus said:I'll reply to everyone eventually.
I'm going to start here. I don't like your analogy. The short NBA player like Nate Robinson can compete in the league despite the odds. He could maneuver around big guys like nobody else. Same with me. I can fish. I can compete.
It would be like Nate competing and succeeding, and then being given a test to prove how he did it, failing, and officials taking everything from him. "Oh well you side stepped LBJ and sunk a fade away but if you can't answer these questions like we want you to, we're gonna have to go ahead and take those points from you."
Talent =/= cognitive ability.
I think, (not speaking for him) but the way I understood it is you are already using your disability as a crutch and already making an excuse. I have been a school teacher for 13 years so I know all about how disabilities are used to change the rules so those with said disability could still be just as successful as other students in their class.
On 2/28/2019 at 10:10 AM, Hawkeye21 said:I wouldn’t worry about it. I worry about taking a polygraph if I win as well because I have issues with anxiety. I like to compete too much to let it prevent me from doing it. I’ll deal with it if I ever get there.
Same, I hope I am never a suspect in a murder investigation, I would fail miserably.
Hawkeye21 reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, jbsoonerfan said:I think, (not speaking for him) but the way I understood it is you are already using your disability as a crutch and already making an excuse. I have been a school teacher for 13 years so I know all about how disabilities are used to change the rules so those with said disability could still be just as successful as other students in their class.
Same, I hope I am never a suspect in a murder investigation, I would fail miserably.
That’s why they’re not admissible by law. We’re all wired differently.
J Francho reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, jbsoonerfan said:you are already using your disability as a crutch and already making an excuse. I have been a school teacher for 13 years so I know all about how disabilities are used to change the rules so those with said disability could still be just as successful as other students in their class
Quite the opposite. He's voicing concern, and asking how he can succeed in the current format.
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 10:11 PM, J Francho said:Quite the opposite. He's voicing concern, and asking how he can succeed in the current format.
Guess i misunderstood. I thought he was saying a polygraph was unfair to him because of his disability, even though he has no idea if he could pass one or not.
J Francho reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, jbsoonerfan said:I think, (not speaking for him) but the way I understood it is you are already using your disability as a crutch and already making an excuse.
On 2/28/2019 at 10:54 PM, jbsoonerfan said:Guess i misunderstood. I thought he was saying a polygraph was unfair to him because of his disability, even though he has no idea if he could pass one or not.
He did say that. That's how this works: communication. You state a problem, and perhaps someone can help, relate, or have a suggestion. So, do you have some help, or are you here to criticize a person with a disability? Do you think it's unfair that I, having Type 1 Diabetes, am allowed to bring my own snacks, in case of low blood glucose, to places where bringing outside food and beverage isn't allowed? Are you resentful about wheelchair access? Do you think that anyone with a disability should be tested on a particular activity before saying, yeah, maybe he needs a little help here? For some, daily tasks are a test. I get the idea of challenging people in order to bring out their best. But, there some things where you have to meet a person where they are. It's called reasonable accommodation.
jbsoonerfan reply :
I have already typed up 4 different responses, but I will just be quite as it appears my opinion isn't going to sit well with some.
OCdockskipper reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 8:02 AM, Glaucus said:...The short NBA player like Nate Robinson can compete in the league despite the odds...
Not to get too tied into the analogy, I was talking about & wrote very short people. Nate Robinson is only short by NBA standards, he isn't Vern Troyer short. If someone of Vern's height had the ability to make 100% of his shots within 15 feet of the basket, he would be considered skillful. However, because the rules allow other (taller) players to block the shot, those skills are negated. A rule would stop such a player from being an NBA talent despite his skill.
I believe there is some old guy, an ex doctor or engineer, who holds the world record for most consecutive free throws. Put that talent in an NBA game & he never gets a shot off. If they would just leave him alone & let him shoot, he could be a star ????
My point is, the rules are the rules. In most cases, you will go farther if you try to work with the rule (especially the spirit of the rule) than to claim it is unfair and ask to be excused from it.
J Francho reply :
Nate Robinson is less than 5'8" tall.
12poundbass reply :
Muggsy Bogues 5’3”
J Francho reply :
Tyrone Shoelaces was 4'6".
WVU-SCPA reply :
It is possible a current angler on one of the circuits has a case of aspergers and solution to your issue. We would never know as there is such a wide spectrum. Just like people with atypical stature have been successful in the NBA, but they had a higher set of probabilities to over come then someone born with the genetics to be taller.
Life isn't always fair, the important thing is you are aware that the probabilities are not stacked in your favor in this situation. It's up to you and your support system to decide if you are capable of chasing your dream, but by saying you can't and the current system is just "shameful and unfair" is failing before even trying.
Myself being color blind means that I have a 0% chance of legally flying an airplane, or telling the difference between the color of different soft plastics. Unfair? Depends on who you ask.
Bass Resource is part of that support system. Several members have suggested ideas on overcoming the limitations. It is up to you to decided if you will use the support.
Glaucus reply :
On 2/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, jbsoonerfan said:I think, (not speaking for him) but the way I understood it is you are already using your disability as a crutch and already making an excuse. I have been a school teacher for 13 years so I know all about how disabilities are used to change the rules so those with said disability could still be just as successful as other students in their class.
Same, I hope I am never a suspect in a murder investigation, I would fail miserably.
I understand what you're saying, but I've never in my life used my disability as a crutch. I live like anyone else despite the challenges because I believe in being my whole self. I'm just very concerned that my disability could really fail me here. I have stims but not like low functioning autistic people do. I don't spin in circles or clap my hands. I rub my face and tap my feet in nervous situations instead. I get shakey, I get anxious. I give off many signs of being a liar and a cheat in this instance, but I don't lie and I've never cheated. I don't want this test to give off false information because of how my body is reacting which is completely out of my control. Of course I'm not even close to being in a position to have a winning bag at a high stakes tournament, but it is the dream, and I would still like to discuss it.
On 2/28/2019 at 12:51 AM, J Francho said:@Glaucus Have you considered seeing a therapist to address your PTSD? Seems like this is something you could work through in that setting, to prepare you for something as simple as answering a few questions truthfully.
I see a therapist frequently. It's how I've gotten as far as I have. 
J Francho reply :
I think more than likely you'd be fine. As was mentioned, they get a baseline, and if your baseline is nervous or anxious, then that's what they compare to. Chase your dream, dude. You'd be a heck of an ambassador for awareness.
TnRiver46 reply :
Give em hell @Glaucus!
OCdockskipper reply :
On 3/1/2019 at 2:06 AM, WVU-SCPA said:It is possible a current angler on one of the circuits has a case of aspergers and solution to your issue...
Aaron Martens immediately came to mind. I believe Tom knows what social issues Aaron had growing up and what he has done to overcome them.
I heard KVD describe Aaron one time as "a unique dude".
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