Handling mudfish 2024
Olebiker reply :
Call them mudfish, bowfin, grinnel, or those @%$##? toothy SOBs, I hate handling them. How do you folks get a mudfish off when you catch one?
I was thinking about getting one of those Boga Grip type devices.
paul. reply :
QuoteHow do you folks get a mudfish off when you catch one?
pliers, then i kill it. either that or i kill it first, then use pliers.
Olebiker reply :
QuoteQuoteHow do you folks get a mudfish off when you catch one?pliers, then i kill it. either that or i kill it first, then use pliers.
That brings up another question. Is it ethical (not in the PETA sense) to kill a native fish just because you don't like it and it competes with your preferred species?
BassinSoldier reply :
I hold them down with my foot if I can, or my hand if I have to, then get they hook out with pliers. I don't kill 'em. They put up a great fight and they're fun to catch. You don't kill pickerel when you catch them do ya? The only thing that ticks me off when I catch one is I get all excited thinking I have a big ol' largemouth and here comes a mudfish rolling up.
Certified Public Angler reply :
My cousin and I pulled out 10 mudfish out of his lake one day when we were about 10 years old. We then proceeded to use a 2x4, a BB gun, and a knife to kill them. Looking back it was pretty messed up, but the instructions from grandpa were to kill them... :-/
Catt reply :
Cut there throat, remove hook, leave em for gator bait 
J Francho reply :
Same as if I caught a northern pike, grab it behind the gills. I don't get the whole "kill them" them thing, unless you're going to eat them. They were here before bass, and will likely outlast them. They are frustrating though - you end up thinking you've got a good bass on, and its a bowfin. Or you see a big one, and want to catch it, but it doesn't take the bait.
Get educated here: http://www.bowfinanglers.com/myths.html
GRIZZ reply :
When it comes to fish with teeth.....I never leave home without the Bogas.
Well worth the $100 bucks!
Daniel My Brother reply :
QuoteSame as if I caught a northern pike, grab it behind the gills. I don't get the whole "kill them" them thing, unless you're going to eat them. They were here before bass, and will likely outlast them. They are frustrating though - you end up thinking you've got a good bass on, and its a bowfin. Or you see a big one, and want to catch it, but it doesn't take the bait.Get educated here: http://www.bowfinanglers.com/myths.html
x 2 Thanks for the link.
Speed Worm reply :
I caught one today and safely released it back to the body of water.
People in this forum get alarmed when a member eats their bass buy will recommend senseless killing of other species. Unbelievable.
Beautiful fish!
Bassn Blvd reply :
Under no circumstances do I even allow them into the boat, unless I'm going to sell them as catfish to the Hatians.
CFFF 1.5 reply :
x2 to the kill and leave for the gators.
Jake. reply :
What's so bad about them? I've never caught one, I'm just wondering.
J Francho reply :
Nothing. They bite artificials, they fight hard, and females get pretty big. There are some that are either ignorant or uninformed as to what they actually are, and think they should be killed, which is in my opinion, retarded. They are just another predator that live along side bass.
Ky_Lake_Dude reply :
QuoteNothing. They bite artificials, they fight hard, and females get pretty big. There are some that are either ignorant or uninformed as to what they actually are, and think they should be killed, which is in my opinion, retarded. They are just another predator that live along side bass.
couldn't have said it better myself
BassinSoldier reply :
Since so many people have apparently killed their mudfish...Has anyone out there every tried eating one?
Catt reply :
Bowfin; "dogfish", "mudfish", "grindle" (or "grinnel"),cottonfish and in parts of South Louisiana they are called "tchoupique" or "choupique".
For those who are either ignorant or uninformed Bowfish will completely take over a body of water eating every species of fish living in that body of water.
J Francho reply :
That is a myth. If that was the case, then there would be no bass around here.
Micro reply :
QuoteFor those who are either ignorant or uninformed Bowfish will completely take over a body of water eating every species of fish living in that body of water.
Nonsense.
.dsaavedra. reply :
QuoteFor those who are either ignorant or uninformed Bowfish will completely take over a body of water eating every species of fish living in that body of water.
thats funny because the link that J Francho provided actually proved this one to be a myth!
GeneinTX reply :
I have always wanted to catch one myself. Now we ahve a native species that is a problem? Strange.
Muddy reply :
My friends in Florida talk about how hard these fish fight and those who fish smaller bodies of water said the same thing as Catt so i did a little searching:
Here is a link from the Zoological Musem of University of Michigan which has some information under ; Predation and Place in Eco System , based on scientific and cited research, that suggest that Catt may have a point and it may in certain bodies of water be true and not a myth. Give it a read and you can trace the citations to find the research etc.
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Amia_calva.html
This other study shows a negative effect on Talapia Surival , as the population of Bow Fin increses in Small and conventional ponds. So it may effect the Bass Population as well, since Bass Feed on Tilapia
http://biblioweb.dgsca.unam.mx/cienciasdelmar/instituto/1983-1/articulo148.html
There are more articles from scholastic sources that I would tend to trust more than a site dedicated to bowfin fishing. I am not an expert but there is information out there that supports the idea that bowfins do have a negative effect on bass populations. I don't know about killing every one you catch.
Catt reply :
So who's to believe Bow Fin Anger's group, a group devoted to Bow Fin and supported by one Professor or the rest of the biological community?
FishinDaddy reply :
Caught 2 yesterday on a 12' bream buster. They are fun to catch and I use pliers to hold them and another pair to remove the hook and then let them go. I have caught them up to 5 lbs on rattle traps, spinner baits and minnows.
BassinSoldier reply :
If that were the case I don't think there would be any bass left in Florida...Especially as long as the mudfish have been around. Those darn pesky green trout just won't die down there, what gives!? 
BassinSoldier reply :
On another note...aren't Tilapia a non-native invasive species? So what's the problem with mudfish preying on an invasive species that can terrorize bass in smaller bodies of water during their spawn?
J Francho reply :
The fact of the matter is that bowfin thrive in conditions that marginally support bass. Bowfin have been around A LOT longer than bass. They've been able to survive despite the success of bass. If you have to remove a bowfin from a small pond in order to improve the bass fishery there, I have no problem with it. While your at it, remove the crappie too, they pose a much larger risk to the bass. To say that all bowfin should be immediately killed is stupid and counter intuitive to conservation efforts.
Catt reply :
Get your facts correct
No evidence supports the Earth or Bow Fins being 2 ½ millions years old
No human can say for fact Bow Fins were on earth before bass
I have personally worked with Wildlife & Fisheries agencies to totally remove all bow fins that had over populated bodies of water.
I have witnessed this myth on several other smaller bodies of water in Texas, Louisiana, & Mississippi.
fourbizz reply :
Catt, and i dont mean this sarcastically, but can you provide any reading done by fisheries biologists that contradict the "let them live" group?
Also, there is much more evidence that the earth is indeed 4.5billion years old, than there is that it is 6,000. :-X
I'm all about evidence and fact.
Muddy reply :
I believe that the 6,000 year old number is biblically based. I am with the scientific evidence of 4.5 billion years also.
The research seems to point to controlled culling instead of random and wholesale killing of all bowfin, that would be tragic for many bodies of water, because they are in the upperend of the feeding pyramid.
Catt reply :
What evidence proves the earth to 4.5 million years old?
The theory of carbon dating and the formulas used have been proven to be wrong.
The skeleton remains purported to be extinct dinosaurs has be proven to be assembled wrong with many of the bones used to complete the skeleton produced by man.
True science always agrees with observable evidence and there is no observable evidence of this theory.
Another example of the complete removal of a species is Great Snakehead (Channidae); eat game fish and have no predators to they can overcrowd a body of water and harm native species.
If someone has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building private lakes & marshes for bass fishing y'all would propose to just let invasive aquatic species remain unchecked?
For farther reading I suggest United States Department of Agriculture's National Agricultural Library and look up Aquatic Species.
Also try
Department of Interior
Fish and Wildlife Service
Injurious Wildlife Species
Muddy reply :
Hey Tom: I am not a fisheries expert, just posted some readings, I have no strong opinion either way
Creationist follwoers have been discredited all palentholgy, based on a few errors. This would be like discrediting the space program, based on the Appolo Accident, it is the vast amount of correct material. I will not disrespect a creationist views, but I belive in Evolution and the possibility of the big bang.
Carbon tested has not been the stanrd for a long itme, radio wetrics, and the study of the earth as an enity of this solar system has proven more reliable.The earth is way more than 6000 years, the Bible is not the only historical evidence for all of us. I respect those who it is. I will go with science here, there is good scientific proff that the earth is much older than 6000 years.
Here is some stuff about it for the US Geological Society
AGE OF THE EARTH
So far scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics. If there are any of Earth's primordial rocks left in their original state, they have not yet been found. Nevertheless, scientists have been able to determine the probable age of the Solar System and to calculate an age for the Earth by assuming that the Earth and the rest of the solid bodies in the Solar System formed at the same time and are, therefore, of the same age.
The ages of Earth and Moon rocks and of meteorites are measured by the decay of long-lived radioactive isotopes of elements that occur naturally in rocks and minerals and that decay with half lives of 700 million to more than 100 billion years to stable isotopes of other elements. These dating techniques, which are firmly grounded in physics and are known collectively as radiometric dating, are used to measure the last time that the rock being dated was either melted or disturbed sufficiently to rehomogenize its radioactive elements.
Click on the image to see a graphical representation of geologic time
[344K]
Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [see Editor's Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of "primordial crust" but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth's oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth's formation. The best age for the Earth (4.54 Ga) is based on old, presumed single-stage leads coupled with the Pb ratios in troilite from iron meteorites, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite. In addition, mineral grains (zircon) with U-Pb ages of 4.4 Ga have recently been reported from sedimentary rocks in west-central Australia. The Moon is a more primitive planet than Earth because it has not been disturbed by plate tectonics; thus, some of its more ancient rocks are more plentiful. Only a small number of rocks were returned to Earth by the six Apollo and three Luna missions. These rocks vary greatly in age, a reflection of their different ages of formation and their subsequent histories. The oldest dated moon rocks, however, have ages between 4.4 and 4.5 billion years and provide a minimum age for the formation of our nearest planetary neighbor. Thousands of meteorites, which are fragments of asteroids that fall to Earth, have been recovered. These primitive objects provide the best ages for the time of formation of the Solar System. There are more than 70 meteorites, of different types, whose ages have been measured using radiometric dating techniques. The results show that the meteorites, and therefore the Solar System, formed between 4.53 and 4.58 billion years ago. The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively. Scientists have used this approach to determine the time required for the isotopes in the Earth's oldest lead ores, of which there are only a few, to evolve from its primordial composition, as measured in uranium-free phases of iron meteorites, to its compositions at the time these lead ores separated from their mantle reservoirs. These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent. To be precise, this age represents the last time that lead isotopes were homogeneous througout the inner Solar System and the time that lead and uranium was incorporated into the solid bodies of the Solar System. The age of 4.54 billion years found for the Solar System and Earth is consistent with current calculations of 11 to 13 billion years for the age of the Milky Way Galaxy (based on the stage of evolution of globular cluster stars) and the age of 10 to 15 billion years for the age of the Universe (based on the recession of distant galaxies).
For additional information on this subject, see G. Brent Dalrymple's The Age of the Earth, published by the Stanford University Press (Stanford, Calif.) in 1991 (492 p.).
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I know there is strong probility you will not accept this, but their is a lot of very strong evidence that the earth is millions of years old,
bocabasser reply :
i fish with a guy who has one of those arc dehookers, and he has it strictly for mudfish. when i fish, i can usually tell a mudfish bite from a bass bite and simply let the mud spit it out.
Catt reply :
AGE OF THE EARTH
So far scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics. If there are any of Earth's primordial rocks left in their original state, they have not yet been found. Nevertheless, scientists have been able to determine the probable age of the Solar System and to calculate an age for the Earth by assuming that the Earth and the rest of the solid bodies in the Solar System formed at the same time and are, therefore, of the same age.
Total contradiction
This is a subject that can not be proved one way or the other
Muddy reply :
Thats cool Tom, I respect your point of view, even when your wrong
Dominick
Glenn reply :
So this topic has gone from "How do I release a Bowfin" to "How old is the Earth"?
*shakes head* Only on BassResource.
Let's keep this on topic and focus on how to release a Bowfin. If you wish to discuss the age of the Earth or Casey Kasem, then please start another thread.
As far as my take on killing them - they're a non-native species that are disrupting ecosystems. I'm good with whatever the game department decides what to with them.
Olebiker reply :
QuoteAs far as my take on killing them - they're a non-native species that are disrupting ecosystems.
Glenn, I think that bowfin are native to North America. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.
J Francho reply :
They are a native species, please stop spreading incorrect information. Care and handling for release is similar to large Esox spp, though they considerably more resistant to the stress of handling than the pike family. Their swim bladder is used as a secondary breathing apparatus, and they sometimes "sink" upon release, rather than swim away. They are ill tempered in the boat, and will bite, so use of a fish grip might aid. I usually just unhook and release them in the water. My largest bowfin weighed at just over 11 lbs.
J Francho reply :
Just so we have it straight in ID'ing these guys:
Northern snakehead ARE an invasive species. Whether they will destroy an ecosystem is debatable. In most cases, a snakehead should be killed and reported to whatever environmental office for your state.
Perhaps its snakeheads that we getting mixed up here.
Olebiker reply :
QuoteThey are ill tempered in the boat, and will bite, so use of a fish grip might aid.
I bought one of these just for bowfin:
Muddy reply :
No, I think we are all on the same page and especially Catt, and know the difference between mudfish/bowfin and snake heads
pokey reply :
technically bass are non native
Olebiker reply :
Quotetechnically bass are non native
How's that?
pokey reply :
my lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.
J Francho reply :
That's incorrect. Bass have been introduced into non endemic waters around the country, and into places as far west as California, as well as Africa and Japan. But they definitely did not come from Europe. I think you are confusing the German strain Brown Trout with bass. BTW, bass are sunfish, belonging to the Centrarchid family.
Olebiker reply :
Quotemy lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.
Would you be able to provide the specific citation? Several university biology sites I have checked say that largemouth bass are native to North America.
pokey reply :
just reread. I was mistaken to a degree. I got confused with the trout. But the bass were a southern species originally, later introduced to northern climates(massachusetts).Let me rephrase..... bass were nonnative to connecticut originally.
Pencil Pusher reply :
Quotemy lakes and ponds book put out by Ct. Dep says they were brought over to the americas from europe. Brookies, sunfish, pickeral,bullhead are the only "true"native species. Book says the pickeral was the apex predator till bass were introduced. not trying to start a flame war, just throwing out some reliable info i read.
There are many other fish that are native to North America other than the one's you listed. The Black Basses are endemic to North America east of the Rocky Mountains.
The two species imported from Europe with the biggest impact are The German Brown Trout and the Common Carp.
Certified Public Angler reply :
hmm agree to disagree...
J Francho reply :
Quotehmm agree to disagree...
to what? Too many topics getting discussed here. Time for a new thread... :-X
Muddy reply :
WELCOME TO BassResource.com
Micro reply :
The Earth CAN NOT be only 6,000 years old. Muddy has underwear that is over 1.7 billion years old. So the Earth is at least that old.
Muddy reply :
QuoteThe Earth CAN NOT be only 6,000 years old. Muddy has underwear that is over 1.7 billion years old. So the Earth is at least that old.
EXIBHIT A :
Olebiker reply :
QuoteQuoteThe Earth CAN NOT be only 6,000 years old. Muddy has underwear that is over 1.7 billion years old. So the Earth is at least that old.EXIBHIT A
Geez, Dom, warn us first! 
jeosbo01 reply :
I just threw up a little :'(
BassinSoldier reply :
I just threw up a lot :'(
pokey reply :
I wish i never got this topic off track!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Daniel My Brother reply :
One final thought for what it's worth. If you consider these fish a threat to your waters, you don't have to waste them.
In parts of SE Missouri grinnel are considered a delicacy, and are the target species for many. The trick is to get the fish on ice quickly, which keeps the meat flakey. I know a lot of people would laugh at the idea of eating mudfish, but don't knock it 'til you try it.
Bassin_Fin@tic reply :
Quotei fish with a guy who has one of those arc dehookers, and he has it strictly for mudfish. when i fish, i can usually tell a mudfish bite from a bass bite and simply let the mud spit it out.
Wuhahaaahaahahaahhaa!
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