Why Not 2024
Squirmin Wormin reply :
first of all the goldfish topic was to be a analogy,but it's ok,but back to what this is all about and hit me from what someone mentioned and found true, i think anyway ,was mentioned pro's have used lures and that's all ,now do they have any pro tournaments that use live bait or not ? Sorry again on the goldfish topic
NorcalBassin reply :
Nope... at least not for bass.
gettin bent reply :
Imagine!! Id love to see a live bait pro tournament for bass. I bet the records for heaviest bags would change real fast. Also no it opens up the fields for non pro to join in the mix. I know here in Ontario on Lake Simcoe nothing beats a leech. A limit of 5 smallies would exceed 30lbs easily. 28-30 lb bags would fill the top 20 spots in the field. It wouldnt happen though, to much money generated from tackle manufactures supporting these pro events.
Catch and Grease reply :
That would be a very boring tournament....
slonezp reply :
Walleye tournaments allow the use of live bait
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 8/11/2014 at 8:36 PM, slonezp said:Walleye tournaments allow the use of live bait
Walleye are not bass but they do taste better. 
ColdSVT reply :
Live bait or not one still needs to first locate the fish
Something pros just happen to be really really good at
Raul reply :
On 8/11/2014 at 1:00 PM, gettin bent said:Imagine!! Id love to see a live bait pro tournament for bass. I bet the records for heaviest bags would change real fast. Also no it opens up the fields for non pro to join in the mix. I know here in Ontario on Lake Simcoe nothing beats a leech. A limit of 5 smallies would exceed 30lbs easily. 28-30 lb bags would fill the top 20 spots in the field. It wouldnt happen though, to much money generated from tackle manufactures supporting these pro events.
I seriously doubt records fot the heaviest bags would change real fast.
Just like everything in this sport, you got to be at the right place and fishing with live bait can and is as challenging as fishing with artificials.
If ketchin´ bigger fish with live bait was so easy all the dudes fishing for big mommas in Florida with shiners would catch 10 pounders on every cast, or all the guys up north catchin´ 7 pound northern strain fishing with minners.
gettin bent reply :
Well our current five fish limit is 31 lbs of smallies during a tournament in the fall. You can do that very easily with leeches on that body of water in the summer! I cant speak for the records in the states but i guarantee in Ontario it would be easly trumped the first year. Id say five smallies in August for a 33-34 lb bag. If not higher. To most that sounds crazy but if you understand or fish some of these lakes you would quickly understand its not that unrealistic. Last week alone off a wreck we boat a 7+ smallie each outing using tubes. A leech will never be beat on my home body of water. You can go shallow and pull your hair out watching giants swim by or swim away when you drop a tube or drop shot. One pass see 100+ fish catch 3 if your lucky on a tube. 1 pass with a leech and you get your arm yanked off with 5-7s. But they are also shallow clear water high pressured fish.On 8/12/2014 at 2:01 AM, Raul said:I seriously doubt records fot the heaviest bags would change real fast.
Just like everything in this sport, you got to be at the right place and fishing with live bait can and is as challenging as fishing with artificials.
If ketchin´ bigger fish with live bait was so easy all the dudes fishing for big mommas in Florida with shiners would catch 10 pounders on every cast, or all the guys up north catchin´ 7 pound northern strain fishing with minners.
Driftb reply :
Actually, years ago, I believe that tournaments did allow live bait. They also allowed competitors to keep fish. Eliminating live bait and later on going to catch and release was instituted in response to conservation concerns. There were too many tourney anglers catching big fish and then dumping dead fish. People didn't want to see that happening at their lakes. A few forward thinking organizers realized that tournaments were adversely affecting fishing, and public perception of angling in general. Eliminating live bait helped to reduce mortality in caught and released fish. Today, ALL ethical fishermen avoid the use of live bait whenever possible, just as ALL ethical fishermen practice at least selective catch and release.
EmersonFish reply :
I'd like to hear B.A.S.S. and F.L.W. pitch that live bait tournament idea to all of those lure manufacturers who spend so much money sponsoring fisherman and tournaments, and promoting the sport. That would probably go very smoothly.
gulfcaptain reply :
just think of all the circle hook sponsors they could list and bobber makers.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 8/12/2014 at 10:38 PM, Driftb said:Actually, years ago, I believe that tournaments did allow live bait. They also allowed competitors to keep fish. Eliminating live bait and later on going to catch and release was instituted in response to conservation concerns. There were too many tourney anglers catching big fish and then dumping dead fish. People didn't want to see that happening at their lakes. A few forward thinking organizers realized that tournaments were adversely affecting fishing, and public perception of angling in general. Eliminating live bait helped to reduce mortality in caught and released fish. Today, ALL ethical fishermen avoid the use of live bait whenever possible, just as ALL ethical fishermen practice at least selective catch and release.
I disagree with your statement regarding ethics & live bait. If a man chooses to use life bait he is no more unethical or ethical than the man using artificials. Ethics has nothing to do with either.
Jigfishn10 reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 6:48 AM, Dwight Hottle said:I disagree with your statement regarding ethics & live bait. If a man chooses to use life bait he is no more unethical or ethical than the man using artificials. Ethics has nothing to do with either.
Gotta agree with you Dwight. Here in the Bay State we can use live bait to fish. We have regs that let us keep the fish we catch providing we comply with the laws. Nothing unethical about that.
Now, if we use a leadhead jig weighing less than an ounce, which we can not do based on our regulations, then I would consider that unethical.
Driftb reply :
I agree that it isn't unethical to keep your limit sometimes. Is it ethical to keep limits of big fish every day? Modern ethics demands that we release the big fish and keep smaller eaters. Do you think that merely adhering to the law makes someone an ethical angler? The word "ethics" means that someone is making a conscious choice to do the right thing, not just blindly adhere to the absolute minimum standard that society will allow. I think that in this day and age, we need to protect the resource. Limits are too liberal and slot limits have been set for legislator's convenience. Laws always lag behind conditions. In other words, the fish will be gone long before the laws change. Ethics demands that an intelligent, effective angler protect the resource, not merely obey the law. I don't see why anyone wouldn't do his best to protect the resource.
Catch and Grease reply :
I keep 4lb bass to eat every now and then, and I keep some bass on most of my trips.... Is that unethical? I don't think so....
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 7:49 AM, Driftb said:I agree that it isn't unethical to keep your limit sometimes. Is it ethical to keep limits of big fish every day? Modern ethics demands that we release the big fish and keep smaller eaters. Do you think that merely adhering to the law makes someone an ethical angler? The word "ethics" means that someone is making a conscious choice to do the right thing, not just blindly adhere to the absolute minimum standard that society will allow. I think that in this day and age, we need to protect the resource. Limits are too liberal and slot limits have been set for legislator's convenience. Laws always lag behind conditions. In other words, the fish will be gone long before the laws change. Ethics demands that an intelligent, effective angler protect the resource, not merely obey the law. I don't see why anyone wouldn't do his best to protect the resource.
Your whole answer never addressed your statement that live bait was unethical. That statement not only offends me but countless of other ethical fisherman. Sometimes it is best to just admitted you spoke in error.
K_Mac reply :
I agree with you Dwight and I haven't used live bait for bass in many years. I just don't care to in the waters I fish. If I fished Erie, the Tennessee River, or other places where live bait increased my chances of a trophy I would have no reluctance to do so. I do not believe that the use of live bait is unethical or that mortality rates when using live bait in these situations is any higher than using artificial.
C and G I think that keeping 4# bass to eat, if legal, is your choice. Whether or not it is unethical is a matter of opinion. I think that is the point here. While I don't keep 4 lb fish or use live bait I do not have the moral authority to condemn anyone for doing so. What I can do offer my opinion and make my case respectfully or keep my opinion to myself...which really isn't my nature. 
Catch and Grease reply :
If I do keep a 4lb bass (which is big for me) its the only fish I'll keep.... I'm not gonna take home five 4lbers, just thought I'd clear that up haha
slonezp reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 9:36 AM, Catch and Grease said:If I do keep a 4lb bass (which is big for me) its the only fish I'll keep.... I'm not gonna take home five 4lbers, just thought I'd clear that up haha
Hell, I'm not going to catch five 4lbrs.
Is it ethical for a man to allow his family to go hungry. If someone is lucky enough to catch 5 large bass on live bait and chooses to feed his family for the week, who am I to judge?
Driftb,
Limits were not enacted because of sport fishermen. They have come into play because of meat fishermen. A conscious choice to do the right thing??? Protect the resource??? Should I Let my family go hungry because of a sport? Is that ethical? What makes bass sacred, walleye a delicacy, and panfish table fare?
Catch and Grease reply :
Exactly.... Why is it okay to go to a place and catch a limit of bream/crappie but some people are disgusted by a guy bringing home 5 good bass.
I remember one day I had 5 good 1-2 pound bass I was gonna bring home for me, my papa, and my cousin for dinner and as I loaded the boat this guy walks up with the usual "you wear em' out!" I was like yeah and opened the live well real quick and he saw the 5 bass and his attitude towards me instantly changed. It was as if he was talking to a different person all the sudden he acted like I spit in his face....
fishva reply :
I'd like to see a live bait tournament where they have to use live bait that bass don't usually eat. Hamsters, for example.
Ok, I don't really want to see hamsters being hooked and drowned under water. But the idea of trying to fish with a hamster cracks me up.
Stumphunter reply :
Far as people taking limits of bream and crappies and it not being a issue, is because we will use a 1 acer pond for example. The harvest ratio for 1 acer is 20-25 pounds of bass per acer per year. and far as panfish, it is 100-150 pounds per acer per year. The bass keeps the pounds or lakes population in check. If you take out a lot of big bass out, then the bluegill population will get out of hand, causing a stunt in growth in all species. Its totally you're right to keep a legal fish, but to help grow better and bigger bass, imo eat the smaller ones and let the over 2-2.5 pounders go. It takes 6-7 years in healthy waters to grow to be 4 pounds in kentucky that is. Takes a long time to replace that fish. Panfish can be replaced in a lot faster rates. I'm not try to tell anyone what they can and cannot keep by all means feed your family. Just giving a thought on why people frown on taking a lot of big bass out. We all agree that we love this sport lets make it the best we can.
SirSnookalot reply :
I don't think it's an issue of ethics using live or cut bait to catch any fish as long as the rules of the state are obeyed. Whether one admits it or not the issue is more of elitism as a sportsmen using artificial lures rather than bait. IMO the hardest thing about catching fish on bait is catching the bait, I see this every single day. Fishing saltwater far fewer people are into catch and release, the use of live bait is extremely popular. But being the elitist I am I do kinda turn my nose up to bait users, I don't do it myself more than 1-2 times every couple of years. My attitude probably stems from 50 years of freshwater fishing in Michigan.
Catt reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 7:49 AM, Driftb said:I agree that it isn't unethical to keep your limit sometimes. Is it ethical to keep limits of big fish every day? Modern ethics demands that we release the big fish and keep smaller eaters. Do you think that merely adhering to the law makes someone an ethical angler? The word "ethics" means that someone is making a conscious choice to do the right thing, not just blindly adhere to the absolute minimum standard that society will allow. I think that in this day and age, we need to protect the resource. Limits are too liberal and slot limits have been set for legislator's convenience. Laws always lag behind conditions. In other words, the fish will be gone long before the laws change. Ethics demands that an intelligent, effective angler protect the resource, not merely obey the law. I don't see why anyone wouldn't do his best to protect the resource.
To avoid getting trouble with Glenn, I'll be nice!
Dude you sound like PETA (people for the ETHICAL treatment of animales)!
"modern ethics demand"! "blindly adhere"!
"slot limits set for legislator's convenience"!, That's the best one.
Driftb reply :
OK, OK, I admit it! I was a little harsh on bait fishermen. They can be ethical. And I did say that I am for Selective harvest. Keep small fish, release the big girls. I fished bait for years, and I used to sell bait too. You could say I am a hypocrite. I'd rather think that I learned a better way to do things. I am not the only one to say that bait fishing kills more fish that lure fishing when catching and releasing. I don't think PETA is for fishing at all. My point is that when anglers become very good at catching big fish, especially in limited environments like freshwater lakes , rivers and ponds, they need to realize that every fishin trip they have the choice to do the right thing. I think it is a responsibility. Do you want to take your kids fishing and have to tell them how there used to be big fish in this lake, or do you want to take them fishing for big fish? When I fish a local 90 acre lake in my area, there have been days when my buddy and I catch catch 10-15 bass that are 18-22", weighing 3.5-6 lbs. We could keep ten a day between us. Would it be ethical to do so? To keep and eat bass that are probably ten to twelve years old and play a vital role in controlling the fish population in that lake? It would be legal, but we would clean the lake out pretty quick, and then all you''d catch would be dinks. If you disagree, just go across the river to Pennsylvania and tell me how you like the fishing. Pa has more liberal limits and allows bass fishing through the ice. I see a lot of Pa guys over here. Not so many NY guys fishing PA lakes.
Catch and Grease reply :
well the size of the lake is a factor too, a 90 acre lake certainly needs to be looked at differently than a 10,000+ acre lake.
K_Mac reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 9:15 PM, Driftb said:OK, OK, I admit it! I was a little harsh on bait fishermen. They can be ethical. And I did say that I am for Selective harvest. Keep small fish, release the big girls. I fished bait for years, and I used to sell bait too. You could say I am a hypocrite. I'd rather think that I learned a better way to do things. I am not the only one to say that bait fishing kills more fish that lure fishing when catching and releasing. I don't think PETA is for fishing at all. My point is that when anglers become very good at catching big fish, especially in limited environments like freshwater lakes , rivers and ponds, they need to realize that every fishin trip they have the choice to do the right thing. I think it is a responsibility. Do you want to take your kids fishing and have to tell them how there used to be big fish in this lake, or do you want to take them fishing for big fish? When I fish a local 90 acre lake in my area, there have been days when my buddy and I catch catch 10-15 bass that are 18-22", weighing 3.5-6 lbs. We could keep ten a day between us. Would it be ethical to do so? To keep and eat bass that are probably ten to twelve years old and play a vital role in controlling the fish population in that lake? It would be legal, but we would clean the lake out pretty quick, and then all you''d catch would be dinks. If you disagree, just go across the river to Pennsylvania and tell me how you like the fishing. Pa has more liberal limits and allows bass fishing through the ice. I see a lot of Pa guys over here. Not so many NY guys fishing PA lakes.
I think you make a good case Driftb. 
C and G lake size is relative to fishing pressure. I agree with Driftb that selective harvest is the right approach whether it's on Kentucky Lake or the your local farm pond.
Catch and Grease reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 9:31 PM, K_Mac said:I think you make a good case Driftb.
C and G lake size is relative to fishing pressure. I agree with Driftb that selective harvest is the right approach whether it's on Kentucky Lake or the your local farm pond.
yes, but not taking into the account of more people fishing, if you take out 10 big bass out of a farm pond obviously that's gonna have more of an impact than taking 10 big bass out of a 10k acre lake.
Driftb reply :
You have the idea, but I am not talking about 10 bass out of a farm pond. I fish that pond maybe 10 times a year. But it isn't a farm pond, it is public water in a state park. Are we talking 100 bass per year? I don't know. I am not the only guy who catches fish there either. As far as size, well, I think that lake Champlain is a little bigger than a farm pond. Can you just pop in and catch big fish there? I always have, and a lot of guys do. Has the heavy fishing pressure of the past several (10+) years affected the fishing? Ask anyone who fishes Champlain.
Catch and Grease reply :
This will really turn into an endless argument, I respect your opinion but I'm gonna stand by mine.
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 8/12/2014 at 2:28 AM, gettin bent said:Well our current five fish limit is 31 lbs of smallies during a tournament in the fall. You can do that very easily with leeches on that body of water in the summer! I cant speak for the records in the states but i guarantee in Ontario it would be easly trumped the first year. Id say five smallies in August for a 33-34 lb bag. If not higher. To most that sounds crazy but if you understand or fish some of these lakes you would quickly understand its not that unrealistic. Last week alone off a wreck we boat a 7+ smallie each outing using tubes. A leech will never be beat on my home body of water. You can go shallow and pull your hair out watching giants swim by or swim away when you drop a tube or drop shot. One pass see 100+ fish catch 3 if your lucky on a tube. 1 pass with a leech and you get your arm yanked off with 5-7s. But they are also shallow clear water high pressured fish.
34 lb 5 fish bag of smallies ? That would be very impressive. Any pictures of the 7+ smallies your catching on tubes off that wreck ? I hope your using a scale.
My opinion about keeping fish : If you want to keep bass and stay with in your legal limit then who am I to tell you that you shouldn't ? As long as everything your doing is legal then that's fine. I don't keep any bass to eat, ever. I don't think they taste very good personally. I have kept 3 bass to mount in the past 16 years and none of them were the biggest I have caught. Would I be a little bummed out if I saw an angler keep his limit of 5-7 lbers ? Yeah I would but, he isn't doing anything illegal. The angler can do whatever they want with the fish they caught as long as they keep it legal.
I don't use live bait. I did when I was a kid but I haven't used live bait in a very very long time. In my opinion it is more difficult to catch fish on artificial lures. I like the challenge.
Logan S reply :
On 8/13/2014 at 9:15 PM, Driftb said:If you disagree, just go across the river to Pennsylvania and tell me how you like the fishing. Pa has more liberal limits and allows bass fishing through the ice. I see a lot of Pa guys over here. Not so many NY guys fishing PA lakes.
I find this statement funny...Since on the Potomac and Upper Bay we get inundated with NY and PA tournament anglers every spring. According to you, our limits would be way too liberal especially compared to PA....Yet, here they come every year...
gettin bent reply :
Ya take a look in the other posts, PB smallies, Big smallmouth or Ontario largies on fire. Plently of pics that 7lbers frequent that wreck. As far as keeping fish within your legal limit id agreeOn 8/13/2014 at 10:24 PM, Mainebass1984 said:34 lb 5 fish bag of smallies ? That would be very impressive. Any pictures of the 7+ smallies your catching on tubes off that wreck ? I hope your using a scale.
My opinion about keeping fish : If you want to keep bass and stay with in your legal limit then who am I to tell you that you shouldn't ? As long as everything your doing is legal then that's fine. I don't keep any bass to eat, ever. I don't think they taste very good personally. I have kept 3 bass to mount in the past 16 years and none of them were the biggest I have caught. Would I be a little bummed out if I saw an angler keep his limit of 5-7 lbers ? Yeah I would but, he isn't doing anything illegal. The angler can do whatever they want with the fish they caught as long as they keep it legal.
I don't use live bait. I did when I was a kid but I haven't used live bait in a very very long time. In my opinion it is more difficult to catch fish on artificial lures. I like the challenge.
If its legal then fill your boots. It boils down to ethics and conservation in the angler and his choices.
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 8/14/2014 at 12:19 AM, gettin bent said:Ya take a look in the other posts, PB smallies, Big smallmouth or Ontario largies on fire. Plently of pics that 7lbers frequent that wreck. As far as keeping fish within your legal limit id agree
If its legal then fill your boots. It boils down to ethics and conservation in the angler and his choices.
No doubt man those are ginormous smallmouth. Friggin huge. Getting 5 in the 6 3/4 - 7 lb class in a single 8 hour tournament would be extremely impressive. I would like to see it happen.
gettin bent reply :
You will if ya use leeches. When i take clients after true trophy smallies leeches are our go to baits. It always ends with a smile;))
slonezp reply :
On 8/14/2014 at 1:02 AM, gettin bent said:You will if ya use leeches. When i take clients after true trophy smallies leeches are our go to baits. It always ends with a smile;))
I believe leeches out produce other bait, both live and artificial, for smallies, during the summer months, on northern lakes. Spring and fall I would choose other bait.
ColdSVT reply :
You arw confusing ethics and good conservation. Yes you could argue that releasing larger fish is a better moral principle.On 8/13/2014 at 7:49 AM, Driftb said:I agree that it isn't unethical to keep your limit sometimes. Is it ethical to keep limits of big fish every day? Modern ethics demands that we release the big fish and keep smaller eaters. Do you think that merely adhering to the law makes someone an ethical angler? The word "ethics" means that someone is making a conscious choice to do the right thing, not just blindly adhere to the absolute minimum standard that society will allow. I think that in this day and age, we need to protect the resource. Limits are too liberal and slot limits have been set for legislator's convenience. Laws always lag behind conditions. In other words, the fish will be gone long before the laws change. Ethics demands that an intelligent, effective angler protect the resource, not merely obey the law. I don't see why anyone wouldn't do his best to protect the resource.
The definition of ethics is " a system of moral principles " or " the rules of conduct recognized in a particular class of human actions in repect to a group or culture"
Your ethics are yours alone...case in point, some people think fishing during the spawn is unethical...i dont find it unethical at all. Now do i find keeping five 6lb fish unethical? No, i do however find keeping those fish as poor planning for a future resource
Driftb reply :
No doubt that I could be confusing ethics and conservation. But the OP was about bait fishing. My opinion is that bait and catch and release do not go together well. It turns out that the tournament community agrees with me, by and large. And I guess my assumptions about "sportsmen" being conservation minded, and that "sportsmen" would be more likely to catch and release are just assumptions.
Quote
The definition of ethics is " a system of moral principles " or " the rules of conduct recognized in a particular class of human actions in repect to a group or culture"
I didn't invent the idea that bait is detrimental to catch and release. Have you even fished a "No-Kill" area? In my experience, they don't allow bait in a "No Kill" area. BASS doesn't allow bait in tournaments either. It's not because bait is more effective, its because it causes more harm to the fish. At least to me, this gets back to ethics.
Jigfishn10 reply :
This thread ran it's course... 
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