I am not getting all this return stuff; MILD RANT 2024
Muddy reply :
Hey Fellas: I see a lot of posts where either a guy broke a piece of tackle, because of something he did, and then gets upset when the manufacturer or a store HE DID NOT BY THE ITEM FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE? is hesitant in refunding or replacing an item they did not sell or sold in perfect condition. only to have the buyer misuse the product and break it
I do not understand posts like this and there are many of them. Is there not a little dishonesty here somewhere? It's no wonder all the stores do not clamp down on thier return policies
I would love to see a guy buy a part frpm a Chevy dealership let's say and then go to Advanced and say this dosen't work I want to exchange it and see what happens with no recipt
Early in the year I had a Fenwick stored at work in a shed, that I recieved an email from ground keeping about, that the shed was being knocked down, I did not pay attention to the email, and I was left with a 4 piece travel rod, when I sifted through the ruins of the shed IT WAS MY FAULT!!
I recieved a number of suggestions to call Fenwick and tell them what happened to get either a discounted replacement or a free one WHY IS THIS ATTITUDE SO COMMON?
It was my fault, next time I will read my emails and pay attention.Fenwick, nothing to do with the problem , and it is dishonesty and lack of taking repsonsibilty that drives prices up to begin with
Why should Cabelas or BPS take something back you bought at Academy or Dicks or on Ebay for that matter and visa versa? :-/
islandbass reply :
I agree with you 100% but I have never been too vocal about it. It is a weird mentality that some folks have when it comes to fishing rods and other things like bicycle and I don't understand it either.
If someone breaks their rod and it is their fault, they take it back to wherever and demand a new one? That is ridiculous. The strange thing is that some shops do replace them as we have all read stories about, "I broke my BPS rod, took it back and they gave me a new one..." That is incredibly nice of BPS or Store X to do that, but somewhere down the road either they're eating up some cost and pass it onto the consumer some other way, or they charge enough on the rods initially to cover the replacement.
Now if the rod breaks from a defect that is a different story.
I sure wish if I ever crash my vehicle that I can take it to the dealer and demand that they replace it for a new one. ;D
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
Step a-w-a-y from the math books.....
Muddy reply :
HEy mook: I withdrew from the class. Taking a 3 week adult brush up course and then will re-enter the class in 3 weeks and be better prepared for it
This isn't no biggie, mild means mild 8-)
flechero reply :
Muddy,
This is also one of my pet peeves... warranties are for defects in workmanship and material, not use and abuse. The rod replacement programs, like the Loomis Xpeditor are different... they advertise anything goes.
I pretty much gave up posting about it and now just shake my head and rarely respond to those posts. I have "eaten" a few things that were my fault, and I sleep just fine. 
Fisher of Men reply :
I'm with you Mudman. These are the reasons that you can't take something back to Target more than twice a month (even with a receipt) and other crackdowns at many other retail stores. Unfortunately people have been this way for years. I remember around 20 years when I worked at K-mart; people would bring in rods and reels covered with dust and pondscum and demand a refund claiming "I just bought it, but lost the receipt." Yeah, right.
We even had one yahoo bring in the wire tip of a cheapy rod wanting an exchange for a new Berkley Series One rod (at $89, the most expensive one we had) because he lost a fish on it as it snapped (and was only able to save the tip?). He also claimed that it had a Shimano Black Magnum (another $89) reel on it.
Why can't folks just be honest about breaking it themselves and foot the bill for a repair or just eat the loss? It's way better than passing the costs of replacing their stuff to us through the product manufacturer. Man up folks. You break it, you deal with it. :-X
fish-fighting-illini reply :
You've got a good point Muddy. Some manufacturers have a no questions asked policy. I think it gets contagious and we take it for granted.
Lets ask this question. You are in XYZ gocery store and drop a jar of pickles when taking it from the shelf and it breaks. Shouldn't you pay for it?
Kind of the same thing but people ( myself included ) can get carried away.
FFI - AKA Matt Crum
tyrius. reply :
QuoteLets ask this question. You are in XYZ gocery store and drop a jar of pickles when taking it from the shelf and it breaks. Shouldn't you pay for it?
Yes you should. If you're kids break it you should pay for it too. Wal-Mart cashiers are so shocked when you try to pay for this stuff that they don't even know what to do.
The lying on the return policy bothers me too. The stores have calculated all of this return activity into their markups. Therefore, the average honest consumer is paying more for products to support the liars who take advantage of store return policy.
Oh well, I'll continue to hope that karma exists.
Bass Fear Me reply :
It's kinda funny this came up. Three days ago I broke my Ugly Stick trying to pull in approximately 50 pounds of moss. Snapped it right in half and it was nobodies fault but my own. Bought it at Wal-Mart too. (Home of the most liberal guarantee in the world) Came home and stuck the reel on a different rod. Never even thought about Wal-Mart guarantee. Why should I????? It was my fault!!!! Be responsible and learn to accept things.......Even if it hurts.
daviscw reply :
QuoteIt's kinda funny this came up. Three days ago I broke my Ugly Stick trying to pull in approximately 50 pounds of moss. Snapped it right in half and it was nobodies fault but my own. Bought it at Wal-Mart too. (Home of the most liberal guarantee in the world) Came home and stuck the reel on a different rod. Never even thought about Wal-Mart guarantee. Why should I????? It was my fault!!!! Be responsible and learn to accept things.......Even if it hurts.
Its not Wal-Mart, its those Ugly Stick commercials that claim their rods can do anything. They have guarantees on them, if they don't perform like they should, you should get a new one.
Fishing Rhino reply :
Back in July, I happened to be in the BPS in Foxborough when a fellow brought in two Johnny Morris signature spinning rod combos. He claimed his rod broke while he was fighting a fish. To top it off, it broke near the handle.
I happened to be in line behind him, and he proceeded to tell me that he was not about to lose a five plus pound bass, so he handlined it in. The line he was using was braid.
Pardon me if I'm skeptical, but, imo, there is no way you could handline a bass that size with braid. Your hands would be sliced raw. Let's just say I took his yarn with a very large grain of salt.
What puzzled me was turning in both combos for new, even though he only broke one. Go figure.
EastTexasBassin reply :
The average consumer these days has given up all responsibility for their own actions and buying decisions. I'm a general manager for a retail store and people continuously amaze me at what they expect to be replaced.
"I bought this thing I shouldn't have bought, I broke it, I don't know where I bought it and I don't have a receipt...but if you don't replace it right now for free I'm going to make a scene, ruin your day, and hurt your business in any way I can"
I hear this crap a lot, and it really ticks me off. I'm with ya muddy- people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
fishfordollars reply :
I have a shop full of abused items that will never see daylight. I broke them and they hang around for spare parts or go out to the street on pickup day. That is the way it should be.
Thanks Muddy for bringing this up. Maybe it will save a store the grief and monetary loss. Good thread.
bassn00b reply :
i agree that this phenomenon is becoming rampant in our society; i went to wal*mart to buy a skil saw for a project i was doing for my sister (figured i needed one now anyway, i'm 26). i got home, and opened the box to find a HEAVILY USED saw! it was all roughed up on the bottom, the blade was bent with all the paint/lettering gone, and the plug was melted! i took it back and exchanged it, RIGHTFULLY, but whomever did before is totally abusing the system! when I parked the impala on my wife's zebco, i didn't take it back to scheels!
Dan: reply :
When I worked in retail, I had a lady buy a $15 POS combo. She brought back just the rod, claiming it was broken (it wasn't) and demanded a refund. I told her we couldn't help her and if the product broke outside the store during normal use, she should try to contact the manufacturer ( I think it was Daiwa). She was furious! And so was I! She was trying to return HALF of a product (she had left the reel at home since it was "not broken") and expected me to give her a refund!? People are ridiculous. Most of the time people just get angry because they know that retail employees including managers just don't want to deal with them and will give them what they want just to make them shut up. I agree and think that is dishonest. When I broke my St Croix in the trunk of my car, I did not expect them to help me out, it was completely my fault it broke and it was my fault I hadn't sent in the warranty registration. I took the hit which because of St Croix's warranty and upgrade package wasn't all that bad...It's called taking responsibility for your actions, and I try to do it.
When my rod broke I was angry, not at St Croix but at myself--because it was my fault and I was going to have to fix it.
cart7t reply :
I find it amazing that fishermen are pulling this deceptive fraud and then come here to post about it, almost bragging. >
Then they don't understand why other forum members chatise them. :
Grey Wolf reply :
QuoteI find it amazing that fishermen are pulling this deceptive fraud and then come here to post about it, almost bragging. >Then they don't understand why other forum members chatise them. :
Simple , that's the way most of them were raised , they don't care, all they want to do is beat the system.
I'm curious to read some of their responces I know we're going to get here.
grimlin reply :
Muddy i love the way you think.
And i couldn't agree more!
Getting a bad item straight from the store i can understand,but breaking something(on user's own) then returning it and getting another one free i can't.
I wish they would crack down on this stuff.It's basically stealing if you think about it.
Paul Roberts reply :
I worked in a big tackle shop for a while and people lied about broken rods often. We could usually tell just how the rods were broken by the rod type, and looking at them. We never bothered, we just replaced 'em.
The thinking in retail, at least in larger outfits, was, "You'll gain more by sucking it up and just replacing the item, than if you don't bend over backwards to make the customer thrilled to be your customer."
Most mass produced rods are pretty cheap to make, in the volume they make them. I remember the going story was that Berkley Lightning Rods cost almost nothing each to manufacture, and that most of the money for a rod went into marketing, and likely, warranty.
Anyway, our store manager HATED this "bend over with a smile" policy, and his disdain could silence the entire 6000sq-ft store >. He could be one ornery guy. Always thought he lost at both ends with his policy: Suck it up and throw a tantrum. Great guy he was, and right. But, man, the customer (and everyone else in the store) knew he knew what really happened with that rod.
Feeling stuck in the middle, when I sold a rod I always gave a little friendly lecture on rod breakage -how they are apt to break (different with different rod and method type), where they break, and general care. I was kinda pointed about this info, letting 'em know it's possible to break a rod, and mis-use is easier than one might expect.
Ugly Stiks sure do have a place in the market. Shakespeare was brilliant in this strategy. BTW: We were instructed NOT to demonstrate the "bend the US into a circle" thing -'cause the rod will likely break. In making that photo for the advertisement he said they broke a bunch of Ugly Sticks.
fourbizz reply :
QuoteBack in July, I happened to be in the BPS in Foxborough when a fellow brought in two Johnny Morris signature spinning rod combos. He claimed his rod broke while he was fighting a fish. To top it off, it broke near the handle.I happened to be in line behind him, and he proceeded to tell me that he was not about to lose a five plus pound bass, so he handlined it in. The line he was using was braid.
Pardon me if I'm skeptical, but, imo, there is no way you could handline a bass that size with braid. Your hands would be sliced raw. Let's just say I took his yarn with a very large grain of salt.
What puzzled me was turning in both combos for new, even though he only broke one. Go figure.
I handlined a 11lb4oz bass using 65lb Sufix braid. No cuts. Rod also broke at the handle when I set the hook. Straight braid, a buttoned drag and a fish that big, if you really lean into her, somethings gotta give.
Muddy reply :
QuoteQuoteBack in July, I happened to be in the BPS in Foxborough when a fellow brought in two Johnny Morris signature spinning rod combos. He claimed his rod broke while he was fighting a fish. To top it off, it broke near the handle.I happened to be in line behind him, and he proceeded to tell me that he was not about to lose a five plus pound bass, so he handlined it in. The line he was using was braid.
Pardon me if I'm skeptical, but, imo, there is no way you could handline a bass that size with braid. Your hands would be sliced raw. Let's just say I took his yarn with a very large grain of salt.
What puzzled me was turning in both combos for new, even though he only broke one. Go figure.
I handlined a 11lb4oz bass using 65lb Sufix braid. No cuts. Rod also broke at the handle when I set the hook. Straight braid, a buttoned drag and a fish that big, if you really lean into her, somethings gotta give.
HE's tyalking normal people not you 4 Bizz, You have that red S on your chest, makes you exempt
fourbizz reply :
Just saying, dont always be so sure about something. I would have thought the same thing about the line slicing up your hands, but it didnt. I did get a bloody nose from when the top of the rod smacked it when it broke, so much for the red S, lol.
I didnt get that rod replaced, BTW, ;D lol
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteI didnt get that rod replaced, BTW, Grin lol
That was going to be my next question...
farmpond1 reply :
Once, while fishing at a farm pond, I left a spare rod on the levee while I fished the other end. A calf (I think it was a holstein) stepped on it and broke it. The farmer refused to pay for it. Geesh! Some people!
Reality check for those who take things literally: Only the first half of this story is true. I never demanded payment (although I did have a few choice words for the calf).
DADto4 reply :
QuoteQuoteLets ask this question. You are in XYZ gocery store and drop a jar of pickles when taking it from the shelf and it breaks. Shouldn't you pay for it?Yes you should. If you're kids break it you should pay for it too. Wal-Mart cashiers are so shocked when you try to pay for this stuff that they don't even know what to do.
The lying on the return policy bothers me too. The stores have calculated all of this return activity into their markups. Therefore, the average honest consumer is paying more for products to support the liars who take advantage of store return policy.
Oh well, I'll continue to hope that karma exists.
That sounds like my wife,God love her,she has to be the most honest person I know.
On several occasions I have had the pickle jar or salsa jar episode in Walmart and she always attempts to pay for it.And you'r right they don't know what to say.She always is keeping our family "in check".
One day these types of people will realize that honesty is the best policy, and hopefully change their ways......HOPEFULLY
Great thread Muddy.
Pigsticker reply :
QuoteQuoteBack in July, I happened to be in the BPS in Foxborough when a fellow brought in two Johnny Morris signature spinning rod combos. He claimed his rod broke while he was fighting a fish. To top it off, it broke near the handle.I happened to be in line behind him, and he proceeded to tell me that he was not about to lose a five plus pound bass, so he handlined it in. The line he was using was braid.
Pardon me if I'm skeptical, but, imo, there is no way you could handline a bass that size with braid. Your hands would be sliced raw. Let's just say I took his yarn with a very large grain of salt.
What puzzled me was turning in both combos for new, even though he only broke one. Go figure.
I handlined a 11lb4oz bass using 65lb Sufix braid. No cuts. Rod also broke at the handle when I set the hook. Straight braid, a buttoned drag and a fish that big, if you really lean into her, somethings gotta give.
Yeah I do not know why people think heavy braid cuts you. I handle 65lb+ braid alot and do not get cut at all. Now the lighter braid like 20lb test will slice right through you.
On the return stuff topic I think any damaged gear should be taken directly to the maker. Usually they are happy to replace it even if your at fault. Also I think lifetime warranties like Shimano's(rods) applies to any way it is broken you get a free one, no fraud needed there.
Muddy reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteBack in July, I happened to be in the BPS in Foxborough when a fellow brought in two Johnny Morris signature spinning rod combos. He claimed his rod broke while he was fighting a fish. To top it off, it broke near the handle.I happened to be in line behind him, and he proceeded to tell me that he was not about to lose a five plus pound bass, so he handlined it in. The line he was using was braid.
Pardon me if I'm skeptical, but, imo, there is no way you could handline a bass that size with braid. Your hands would be sliced raw. Let's just say I took his yarn with a very large grain of salt.
What puzzled me was turning in both combos for new, even though he only broke one. Go figure.
I handlined a 11lb4oz bass using 65lb Sufix braid. No cuts. Rod also broke at the handle when I set the hook. Straight braid, a buttoned drag and a fish that big, if you really lean into her, somethings gotta give.
Yeah I do not know why people think heavy braid cuts you. I handle 65lb+ braid alot and do not get cut at all. Now the lighter braid like 20lb test will slice right through you.
On the return stuff topic I think any damaged gear should be taken directly to the maker. Usually they are happy to replace it even if your at fault. Also I think lifetime warranties like Shimano's(rods) applies to any way it is broken you get a free one, no fraud needed there.
I do not think so here is the Shimano Lifetime warranty:
Shimano Rod - Limited Lifetime Warranty
As used herein, Shimano will mean Shimano American Corporation with respect to United States warranty claims and Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE with respect to Canadian warranty claims. Shimano and Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE warrant to the original retail purchaser that this rod will be free from non-conformities in materials and workmanship. Shimano's sole obligation under this Limited Lifetime Warranty is to repair or replace, at Shimano's option, a non-conforming rod at no cost to the original retail purchaser other than the cost of packing, insuring, and shipping the rod to Shimano. This Limited Lifetime Warranty will be considered VOID if the rod is found to have been subjected to repairs not authorized by Shimano, or if it has been modified, neglected, improperly maintained, misused, abused, or the appearance of the product reveals damage by your failure to provide proper maintenance.
To request warranty repairs on a United States warranty claim, send your rod, postage prepaid, to Shimano or return it to the retailer that it was purchased from. To request warranty repairs on a Canadian warranty claim, send your rod, postage prepaid to Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE or return it to an Authorized Canadian Warranty Center. All warranty requests must be accompanied by a valid dated sales receipt and a brief note describing the difficulty you are experiencing with the rod in as much detail as possible.
Rods that are repaired or replaced by Shimano or Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE under the terms of this Limited Lifetime Warranty will be shipped back to you with Shimano or Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE paying the return shipping charges. If your rod should be found to require repairs outside of the coverage provided by this Limited Lifetime Warranty, Shimano or Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE will perform the repair or replacement and bill you for parts, labor, and return shipping charges. Retailer and wholesaler outlets are not required to perform warranty repairs or exchanges on behalf of Shimano or Shimano Canada Ltd. / LTÉE, nor are they authorized to modify this warranty in any way.
THIS LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DOES NOT EXTEND TO OR COVER ANY DAMAGE TO THE ROD NOT RESULTING FROM A NON-CONFORMITY IN MATERIAL OR WORKMANSHIP; ANY DAMAGE CAUSED BY MISUSE, ABUSE OR TAMPERING WITH THE ROD BY OTHER THAN NORMAL USE OF THE ROD; OR ANY NON-CONFORMITY OR DAMAGE RESULTING FROM REPAIRS PERFORMED OTHER THAN BY SHIMANO OR AN AUTHORIZED SHIMANO SERVICE PROVIDER.
Like I said it is about taking responsibility for our own actions 8-)
ptomacbass reply :
is that why you don't need no stinkin she-mano?
Pigsticker reply :
You make a good point,
But have you tried to exchange a rod from them muddy? They are very nice
Let me say that I have broken my fair share of rods from abuse and have taken it like and man and bought new stuff. You will not find me passing off a broken tip as a bass fight gone wrong.
I was just pointing out the best warranty out there
Muddy reply :
No I do not own any Shimano stuff. I do own Fenwick and Cabelas rods, as well as Pflueger reels. Except for the Fenwick rod I broke( I didnt contact themas it was my fault) I really have never had to use any warranties because I have not had issues using their products.
I am sure Shimano is a generous with their customes as a lot of the bigger companies and tackle suppliers are.
Poolie727 reply :
Personal responsibility and honesty seem to be going the way of the Dodo bird for many people today.
I was standing in line behind a guy at REI a couple years ago who was returning a pair of hiking boots that looked like they'd just been round trip on the Appalachian trail. He told the guy behind the counter he wanted to return them because he just bought them and they didn't fit. REI has a pretty much no questions asked return policy but the guy behind the counter gave him a look like, "suuuuure you just bought them" as he started the process of giving the guy his money back. That look must have p!ssed the guy off because he starts ranting that REI makes tons of money and they can afford to give him his money back.
I'm not sure what irritates me more, the idea that he honestly though they should give him his money back for a pair of boots that were obviously worn out, or that he could stand there and tell a bold face lie... and get all upset about it.
The more I'm around people the more I love my dogs :-)
Raul reply :
I 've owned a lot of rods throughout the years, I 've only experienced 3 rod breakeages in my life, 2 were my fault, simple stupidity on my part so there was no reason for e to complain, the other one was clearly a case of bad material/defect/workmanship, the rod literally exploded into pieces ( it was one of those polymer injected tip Lightning Rods ), took it to Academy where I bought the rod and they replaced it with a new one at no cost, but heck, I didn 't abuse of it, I did take the receipt.
Other than that I certainly wouldn 't demand the retailer or manufacturer for a refund if it were my fault.
moloch16 reply :
I don't think I'd last long in the retail business. I have a habit of telling people what's on my mind >
Joe Boss reply :
Preach on Muddy!! Must be a Brooklyn thing my brother, I agree 100%
I would only return something if it was defective right out of the box. If tackle breaks through my own misuse I go out and buy something new...hmmmm I think I need to accidentely step on one of my old rods, excuse me.
SimonSays reply :
That's why I'll only stick to rods with accidental coverage like st croix and loomis (the only 2 I know of, are there any more?)
If it's not my fault then I'll get it replaced due to the manufactures defect.
If it is my fault, I'll get it replaced anyways because it's written in the warranty that I can.
You win both ways!
stick to loomis or stcroix and there'll be no problems =D
G_Clark reply :
BPS, Cabelas, whatever, they sometimes take these rods back without much questioning because they just send them back to the manufacturer and they get credit for it. The rod manufacturer has a ton of a markup so it is just a drop in the bucket to them. At some point it would get to be too much and this is when you see tougher return policies and the like. Someone mentioned on this thread that they broke a rod pulling in a load of moss. If this rod was a good quality rod, they should replace it. A good quality rod should be able to take considerable flex without breaking. I don't see anything wrong with returning a rod that broke while using it under like circumstances for which it was designed. Pulling in moss is no different than pulling in a big 40 LB Catfish. I had a 40 LB Cat on my medium power Falcon rod 2 weeks ago, it was a fluke, but it happened. The rod was bowed over like a horseshoe and it did not break. With that said, even the best of rods have their limit. The point is if a rod breaks while you are using it under like fishing conditions, loads, etc. they should replace it. If you slam the tailgate on it, that is not like fishing conditions. It was not made to be a tailgate wedge.
flechero reply :
Quoteeven the best of rods have their limit.
Very true, which is why even the cheapest of reels have a drag.
jax reply :
It is not just return policies. It is law suits also. I had to pick my little girl up from day care the other day and take her to the Dr. Her day cares goes every other week to a pizza joint for kids her age. They lock the place down and let the kids have fun. They have $0.25 toy machines there. Apparently my little girl somehow skinned her finger on the quarter slot. Day Care called me and asked that have the Dr. take a look at it. I asked them if this was something I should go and yell at the owners of the Pizza place for. Her teacher stated they closed the machine down, taped it off, and did everything they could to make Sierra comfortable. Her teacher stated the owner truly was distraught and knew nothing about the faulty machine.
I took her to the Dr. they cleaned it up again (Day Care and the pizza joint owner did a very good job the first time). She tore a pretty good chunk of skin off her finger. We now have to watch it to make sure it doesn't get infected.
Could we sue? Yes!!!! Would we win? Probably. Am I going to sue? Hell no!!! The pizza place is a good clean place. It is their business to stay in business. Not hurt little kids. This was a fluke accident. They are fixing the problem. It wasn't life threatening or life altering. It was learning experience for her. Now she knows not to put her fingers there. Granted it messed the skin up on her finger pretty bad and it looks extremely nasty. It tore the skin off half way down the side of her finger but it will heal.
It makes me mad that other people would try to own the pizza joint for that same instance. Granted they could have offered us a free pizza or to at least have paid her our $20 co pay but oh well. They are a good place for the most part.
Muddy reply :
I do not get the connection between a law suit in a pizzaria and taking advatage of liberal return policies for fishing equipment. I have read so many threads about fellas either being happy with the return policy or dissapointed with it, not one thread that was about suing over a broken rod
Joel W reply :
I've been a retail drug store manager for more then 16 years, and in the retail industry for more then 40 years. So I can tell you 1st hand that it's not the cost of the returned item that most stores care about these days, it's keeping or making a new customer that will hopefully continue to purchase products from your store rather then a competitor.
With a receipt we take back everything including open food items and drugs. Without a receipt we give store credit for the full amount whether it was recently on sale or not.
Most national brands are returnable to the manufacture unless the wholesale price was discounted so that they weren't returnable.
Two years ago I broke a Capricorn spinning reel, so I called Cabela's to inquire if I could purchase the broken parts. I was contacted by customer service that the reel was out of warranty, but that they would issue full credit, just send the reel back. Which I did, and purchased a much more expensive reel. Shortly after that I received a check for the shipping. I've also received the same exceptional service from BPS. The end result is that I purchase the vast majority of my bulk winter purchases equally from both companies.
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