Pattern vs. Junk fishing 2024
riverbasser reply :
About how often would you say you develop a pattern and run it all day as opposed to junk fish?
I would say I'm about 70/30 in favor of junk fishing
For example yesterday at the lake I started out looking for beds in the back of the creeks and caught a few males, cranked up a few on main lake ditches near flats, fished some rip rap around the dam, and ended the day skipping docks.
This is pretty normal for me and even days when I do feel I've dialed them in its more to do with a certain bait or depth. Rarely getting a true consistent pattern.
How bout y'all?
scaleface reply :
I might start out junk fishing but if I'm successful it usually leads to a pattern . I'd say most of the time I'm fishing a pattern before the day is over .
Catt reply :
I stay on a pattern even if it's junk fishing! ????
lo n slo reply :
i tend to be a “pattern minded” guy, while my cousin is a “fly down the lake, pull over and start throwing” guy. we drive each other crazy. thing is, they both work. i give up.
MN Fisher reply :
Can we call my method 'Random-pattern'?
I have a plan when I go out, but it's more 'fish this area and see what comes up'. Far as planning exactly where in the area, what baits to use or even the technique (do I use Texas rig here or a Ned rig?) it's a random-numbers game. I go by 'feel'.
MIbassyaker reply :
Is one of those the same as the "try stuff until something works, then keep doing that" method? That's the one I do.
A-Jay reply :
I fish a lot of smallmouth bass water.
It's rare that every fish in the lake is doing the same thing at the same time - I'm always trying to locate active bass in different areas. Often the depths, structure & cover are quite different, but the bass in each can still be active.
While some can be (and often are) similar, each spot may require a specific approach, technique or presentation to get bit. This can & often times does change even in the same spot once a few fish are caught.
There is no doubt, however, I'm a big fan of being successful while I 'run points' or 'fish wood or docks'. When it works - it's killer; doesn't always though.
Some days it's more about prospecting and less about fishing.
So my most productive 'pattern' is to find active bass.
If that's a no-go, I usually end up fishing a jig.
A-Jay
Log Catcher reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 7:13 AM, MIbassyaker said:Is one of those the same as the "try stuff until something works, then keep doing that" method? That's the one I do.
This is my way of fishing.
ww2farmer reply :
Junk fishing is my pattern.
There is a recent short video on Bassmaster from Gerald Swindle explaining it perfectly.
It's not having 20 rods on the deck, having no clue what is working.
It's having a bunch of rods on the deck, pre-rigged with the proper tools to cash in on little windows of opportunity that present themselves while working your plan.
For example...mid summer, I might be going down a deep weed line, pitching jigs/t-rigged baits into pockets, clumps etc....but I see a stretch of bank with some good shade on it. I don't care if I have been tuna hauling them in the weeds, I'll go over fire a few casts into the shady area with something I deem effective for the conditions. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it don't....nevertheless, I do it all the time. That IMHO...and seemingly in Swindle's opinion is "junk fishing".
Team9nine reply :
Neither...or maybe none of the above, kind of. Now days, over the course of a season, I'm about 55% structure fishing, 25% simplified approach (junk?), 10% pattern fish and 10% "explore new water."
BassWhole! reply :
I "junk" fish 100% of the time. I don't subscribe to the whole pattern thing, IMNSHO it's just something between the ears of LMB guys, but to each his own.
WRB reply :
Junk fishing means different things to different folks like so many bass fishing terms.
Pattern fishing at least has a general excepted definition of repeating the same thing in similar locations.
To me junk fishing is fishing blind without any idea what may catch bass and continuing to change lures hoping to discover something that works. The old saying catch 2 bass on the same or similar lure in a similar location with similar presentation on structure or cover it's a pattern. I use my sonar to locate baitfish and bass so I am not fishing blind, then try to determine what lure and presentation works, so I guess I am a pattern angler most of the time.
Tom
riverbasser reply :
@ww2farmer and @A-Jay pretty much summed up my definition. I'm not fishing blind I'm just fishing different cover/structure with different presentations in the area I'm fishing looking for the active bass. Even if one is producing better than another I can't help myself.
Brad in Texas reply :
We check the weather: clouds or blue sky conditions. We know the general air and water temperatures, wind or dead still air, we know when we will be fishing (time of day) and we either know something about the lake . . . or we likely do a bit of research ahead of time. We know how deep we tend to fish. We know what time of the year it is. If it has rained, we know it might mean the water will be dingier than usual. We generally know what bass are feeding on, say shad versus bluegill for a particular body of water. We know if the lake has grass/vegetation, rocky bottoms, standing timber, etc.
I could go on and on but I think for those of us who consciously consider these things before we go out, that this makes us all pattern anglers as we sort of pre-select our "tools" for the day. We funnel through a lot of information to narrow it way down. And, we generally eliminate the things we just don't like to do. Conditions may seem to warrant pitching a jig, but some just won't.
I sort of think of junk fishing as sort of randomly tossing things against the wall to see what sticks, that, or someone who switches around between more than, say, 3 presentations in a short period of time. Junk fishing is more random, off the cuff.
Brad
austinF reply :
Does it mean the same as "it's pattern fishing if I do have a plan what to use & how to fish before going outside, and it's junk fishing when I fish in the way whatever I like"
Catt reply :
If we aint all junk Fisherman why we got so many rod-n-reels & all that tackle?
scaleface reply :
When i'm fishing from a jon boat with an elec motor only , I cant be running from spot to spot . I'll fish my way from spot to spot junk fishing style . Even so a pattern of some sort will usually emerge.
BassWhole! reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 9:35 AM, Brad in Texas said:We check the weather: clouds or blue sky conditions. We know the general air and water temperatures, wind or dead still air, we know when we will be fishing (time of day) and we either know something about the lake . . . or we likely do a bit of research ahead of time. We know how deep we tend to fish. We know what time of the year it is. If it has rained, we know it might mean the water will be dingier than usual. We generally know what bass are feeding on, say shad versus bluegill for a particular body of water. We know if the lake has grass/vegetation, rocky bottoms, standing timber, etc.
I could go on and on but I think for those of us who consciously consider these things before we go out, that this makes us all pattern anglers as we sort of pre-select our "tools" for the day. We funnel through a lot of information to narrow it way down. And, we generally eliminate the things we just don't like to do. Conditions may seem to warrant pitching a jig, but some just won't.
I sort of think of junk fishing as sort of randomly tossing things against the wall to see what sticks, that, or someone who switches around between more than, say, 3 presentations in a short period of time. Junk fishing is more random, off the cuff.
Brad
Fake news.
What you are describing is lousy (or complete lack of) preparation, and has no bearing on how one fishes. Were I to be forced to select a "pattern", it would be do the things that you describe in paragraph 1 (plus a few other things) and then go find fish, and then catch fish using the tool(s) that best do the job. Sticking to one or a few lures, or fishing one or a few similar places in the same manner (no t word either) is not part of the plan ever. This is not to say that if I find fish in a school or clustered condition, that I'm switching to something else just to do so while I'm still catching fish.
TOXIC reply :
If you want to be successful on the Potomac River you have to fish at least 1 pattern..........Tide. You have 2 options once you find what tide the fish are feeding on, incoming or outgoing. Then you need to find the fish or groups of fish and fish the tide. You either run with the most productive tide fishing different spots all at the same time in the tide cycle or you get on a productive spot and wait for the tide to turn the fish on. The river is one of the only places I have seen where the fish will absolutely stop biting on the tide. And I mean completely stop... So we usually run with the most productive tide because we want to catch fish all day not just in a window of time. Tournament anglers will get on a good pod of fish and wait out the tide for 5 quality bites.
Brad in Texas reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 7:46 PM, reason said:Fake news.
What you are describing is lousy (or complete lack of) preparation, and has no bearing on how one fishes. Were I to be forced to select a "pattern", it would be do the things that you describe in paragraph 1 (plus a few other things) and then go find fish, and then catch fish using the tool(s) that best do the job. Sticking to one or a few lures, or fishing one or a few similar places in the same manner (no t word either) is not part of the plan ever. This is not to say that if I find fish in a school or clustered condition, that I'm switching to something else just to do so while I'm still catching fish.
What I'm describing is just the information that we consider, even subconsciously, that eliminates so much, narrows our fishing down, that becomes a "pattern" before we ever hit the water. To this, we almost always leave in our boats with a pre-planned destination; we don't usually do this randomly. So, we know where we are going, likely have a first cast presentation in mind, what rod we will pick up first.
I'd generally agree, though, with your thoughts for someone who doesn't do any preparation; my comment was directed for those of us who do prepare, consider all of those things, make a general plan.
For sure, if we are trolling around on the way to a favorite spot, see fish chasing shad on the surface, it'd influence us to make a few casts for that particular action even if that is not part of the plan for the day. But, I wouldn't call that junk fishing but opportunistic fishing, something like that, where the odds shift and we adjust our "pattern" for the day very quickly.
Part of it is defining these terms. When someone asks me how I'm doing when we pass on the water, if I am drop shotting and throwing wacky worms in shallow water, I say that. If I am struggling, break off from my intended patterns, I tell them I am junk fishing trying all sorts of things to get on fish. They usually get what I am saying.
Brad
BassWhole! reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 8:10 PM, Brad in Texas said:What I'm describing is just the information that we consider, even subconsciously, that eliminates so much, narrows our fishing down, that becomes a "pattern" before we ever hit the water. To this, we almost always leave in our boats with a pre-planned destination; we don't usually do this randomly. So, we know where we are going, likely have a first cast presentation in mind, what rod we will pick up first.
I'd generally agree, though, with your thoughts for someone who doesn't do any preparation; my comment was directed for those of us who do prepare, consider all of those things, make a general plan.
For sure, if we are trolling around on the way to a favorite spot, see fish chasing shad on the surface, it'd influence us to make a few casts for that particular action even if that is not part of the plan for the day. But, I wouldn't call that junk fishing but opportunistic fishing, something like that, where the odds shift and we adjust our "pattern" for the day very quickly.
Part of it is defining these terms. When someone asks me how I'm doing when we pass on the water, if I am drop shotting and throwing wacky worms in shallow water, I say that. If I am struggling, break off from my intended patterns, I tell them I am junk fishing trying all sorts of things to get on fish. They usually get what I am saying.
Brad
I see what you are saying, I just don't get to a " pattern" from all that. Ultimately, all the semantics, and approaches boil down to can you find them and catch them on a given body of water on a given day, regardless of the methodology and nomenclature, me thinks.
J Francho reply :
How on earth can you arrive at a pattern before hitting the water? Unless your pattern is that the fish are wet. You have to catch multiple fish to establish or notice some pattern, and even then it's often just a dumb guess. How many times have you gotten back to the ramp, and some did just as well as you, or better, doing something COMPLETELY different.
riverbasser reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 9:55 PM, J Francho said:How many times have you gotten back to the ramp, and some did just as well as you, or better, doing something COMPLETELY different
Plenty lol. I've had plenty of times after a tourney or whatever and talking about how I caught all my fish on the bottom and couldn't get a bite on top water or something and the other guy says I caught all my fish on top water and none on bottom. And many more complete opposites. Crazy how that works
Scarborough817 reply :
patterns are discovered on the water by determining where the fish are, what they are relating to, what mood they are in, if they are wanting to chase baits or sit on bottom. none of this can be found without fishing. I would also say you can have a general idea of where fish might be and what mood they could be in depending on the season, water temp, forage and so on but that does not set a pattern for any given day, it could be summer and they might be in 3 feet of water or they could be in 20 feet with the same water temp at the same time of day
To me junk fishing has a very simple definition as described by Gerald Swindle in a bassmaster podcast. junk fishing is not having a set pattern and fishing whatever comes up in front of you on the water. for example: seeing a laydown and throwing a spinnerbait or squarebill, seeing fish school and throwing a spook or fluke. It has also been described as fishing by the seat of your pants, pretty sure Tharp said that in an FLW if i'm not mistaken
flyfisher reply :
I try and pattern fish as much as possible but like others have already stated, it is more reading conditions and trying to locate fish and then find other areas that are similar. The lakes i fish are usually pretty small <150 acres so finding a pattern can be a lot like junk fishing i guess.
Brad in Texas reply :
I see the points made here about how different anglers see pattern fishing and junk fishing, or looking for what the fish are looking for, then giving it to them.
I'd have to review the most recent Classic, but I believe Kevin VanDam stuck with a pre-conceived plan, some of which surely was based on his pre-fishing experience, then, too, his preference for power fishing. He didn't make it beyond Day 2 as I recall. He might have done better mixing it up. The weather changed, the bite he was looking for never showed up for him. Then, and perhaps it was the eventual winner, and several others, stayed glued to the docks/boat houses based on the weather conditions. Lots of spinning tackle was used, finesse stuff.
In 2017 at the Classic on Lake Conroe, the home-lake favorite sealed his fate early on and fell way back out of contention by considering all he knew about the lake, sticking to it . . . and it didn't work those days.
You hear a lot of "I should have left and changed spots" or "Maybe, I should have changed presentations." But, you also hear "I should have stayed where I was" and "I should have stuck with my plan."
With some of the exceptions mentioned and more, it seems to me that the pro bass anglers often live or die with ideas they develop about the day's plan before they get on the water.
Brad
OCdockskipper reply :
I am junk fishing while trying to figure out a pattern. If I am able to figure out a pattern, I am junk fishing between hitting the pattern locations or to test if the pattern can be expanded.
Scarborough817 reply :
On 4/3/2018 at 12:24 AM, Brad in Texas said:I see the points made here about how different anglers see pattern fishing and junk fishing, or looking for what the fish are looking for, then giving it to them.
I'd have to review the most recent Classic, but I believe Kevin VanDam stuck with a pre-conceived plan, some of which surely was based on his pre-fishing experience, then, too, his preference for power fishing. He didn't make it beyond Day 2 as I recall. He might have done better mixing it up. The weather changed, the bite he was looking for never showed up for him. Then, and perhaps it was the eventual winner, and several others, stayed glued to the docks/boat houses based on the weather conditions. Lots of spinning tackle was used, finesse stuff.
In 2017 at the Classic on Lake Conroe, the home-lake favorite sealed his fate early on and fell way back out of contention by considering all he knew about the lake, sticking to it . . . and it didn't work those days.
You hear a lot of "I should have left and changed spots" or "Maybe, I should have changed presentations." But, you also hear "I should have stayed where I was" and "I should have stuck with my plan."
With some of the exceptions mentioned and more, it seems to me that the pro bass anglers often live or die with ideas they develop about the day's plan before they get on the water.
Brad
yes but pros are normally working on patterns that they have already developed in a practice period they don't just show up to a lake the day of a tournament and think i'll throw a crankbait because the water is 85 degrees and stable.
the most successful pros are the ones who can best adapt to changing conditions
Brad in Texas reply :
On 4/3/2018 at 1:12 AM, Scarborough817 said:yes but pros are normally working on patterns that they have already developed in a practice period they don't just show up to a lake the day of a tournament and think i'll throw a crankbait because the water is 85 degrees and stable.
the most successful pros are the ones who can best adapt to changing conditions
For sure, and this is the reason I mentioned that KVD likely developed his tournament strategy partly "on his pre-fishing experience" and surely also expectations for the weather and water conditions the first day of the tournament. And, though he is arguably the greatest bass angler of all time, he didn't show a lot of adaptation on this occasion. He might have helped himself junk fishing a bit more! Brad
Bankbeater reply :
I junk fish until I catch a bass. Then I start putting together a pattern. How deep, what structure was near, what kind of cover is present? If that pattern doesn’t produce then I go back to junk fishing until the next bass is caught.
greentrout reply :
How To Develop A Pattern
By Carlton "Doc" Holliday
https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/patterns.html
Ratherbfishing reply :
Even when I'm ON a pattern a really good fisherman would probably think I was junk fishing.
J Francho reply :
On 4/3/2018 at 9:46 PM, Ratherbfishing said:Even when I'm ON a pattern a really good fisherman would probably think I was junk fishing.
Me too, probably. As I move across an area, I'm not switching baits willy-nilly. Say I'm hitting a productive strip of docks near a quick ledge to deep water. In between, I might be punching the slop, or frogging, out in front, on the ledge, I might be deep cranking or drop shotting, I might be skipping senkos under the docks. That's four or five rod changes as a pass a dock.
Dirtyeggroll reply :
On 4/2/2018 at 11:07 PM, Scarborough817 said:junk fishing is not having a set pattern and fishing whatever comes up in front of you on the water. for example: seeing a laydown and throwing a spinnerbait or squarebill, seeing fish school and throwing a spook or fluke.
I really like this description of junk fishing.
This an example of how I currently perceive pattern and junk fishing.
Pattern fishing example: Fishing an type of structure/cover pattern with the same bait. Fishing windblown rocky banks with a crankbait. Skipping all of the laydowns and ledges in an area to get to the next windblown rocky bank or hammering the same bank over and over with ONLY with the crankbait and ignoring the other presentations.
Junk fishing example: Thoroughly fishing an entire area with multiple structure/cover and presentations. Pulling up to an area and picking every aspect of cover/structure apart with every bait tied on. Ripping blade/spinner baits through grass and timber, sliding a jig or worm into every laydown or pocket, running a squarebill over all of the chunk rock and timber, tossing swimbaits at fishing breaking the surface.
In other words, I perceive pattern fishing as choosing and sticking with one option/presentation on one condition of structure/cover. A pattern could consist of a couple different structure cover/presentations (45 degree banks near docks and under docks), but in general it is very focused.
I tend try to find a pattern by junk fishing. In other words, I will find an area that would seem to hold fish and run that area thoroughly with one presentation at a time until I get bit. Once I get bit on something I force myself to hold that rod as long as possible. Usually, I will stay at the same spot for a while, because I have found in the past, that many times there is more than one fish there. Then I will go find a couple different areas of that body of water that present similarly and cast the same bait at what looks like similar structure/cover. Eventually, I will return to the place I caught the first fish to see if it is "loading up" and make a high number of casts. Sometimes I will throw a different type of presentation near the similar structure/cover just to keep myself interested, but I know I will return to whatever presentation I caught the first fish.
A specific example of this "pattern" fishing occurred for me last weekend. At the lake I was fishing, there is a channel swing that comes very near a bank with lots of timber and some nearby chunk rock. The channel is 11-14 ft deep and the nearby bank is 0-6 ft deep. Most of the timber is in the 0-6 ft water. There were also 30-40 mph winds. In past experience I have caught fish from this area and many others report that this area holds fish. The question of the day was what were they relating to and what was an effective way to get those fish from the water and into the boat? They could be relating to the timber and want a jig or worm, or being on the timber, they could want a crankbait or spinnerbait bounced off of the wood. They could also be hanging out near the chunk rock waiting for some kind of crawfish (imitation) to get stunned of the rocks. It is very possible that fish could be caught from all of the described cover, and fishing such, I would consider, 'junk fishing'. However, on this particular day, I got bit on a crankbait on the windblown rocks. After catching a fish, I made hundreds of casts with the crankbait and eventually caught 4 nice ones on the same small stretch of bank (I would have sought out other rock banks but a tracker TXW 175 with a 45-lb Minn Kota doesn't do so well in 40 mph winds). I was fishing a pattern. Could I have caught more fish had I thrown different presentations (flipped the timber) in the same area? Maybe. In fact, last fall I caught a fish flipping a beaver in the same timber (and my partner caught one on a T-rigged worm), but instead of wearing those baits out last fall, we threw everything we had tied on (junk fishing) into the little channel swing bank and didn't catch another one.
Of course, all of the fish on a lake are not going to be doing the same thing and can probably be caught with multiple presentations on any given day. Personally, however, I subscribe to the thought that if I catch one on a bait, if I cast that bait enough times near similar structure/cover, I will be more likely to catch another than if I were to turret through my rods on the deck.
Brad in Texas reply :
Well, no, the originator of the concept of pattern fishing is attributed to fishing great and legend, Roland Martin, all the way back to 1969. In one article on Martin's concept, it reads:
"A "pattern" is the exact set of water conditions such as depth, cover, structure, temperature, clarity, currents, etc., which have produced bass at similar locations all over the same body of water. It was first defined by the legendary Roland Martin in 1969."
So, here, pattern just refers to the spot alone, nothing at all about being limited to a single lure or presentation once you are on that spot ("pattern"). I think I recall Martin covering patterns in a seminar and he said that if they are biting on a lake on, say, windy points, 5 feet deep, holding tight to structure, at a certain water temperature . . . that he interpreted that as a "pattern" that would be holding fish at similar conditions . . . all over the lake. Once the pattern was found, he'd surely throw whatever it took that got them to bite. But, Martin fishing a pattern meant that he fished a particular place, reproduced it all over a lake, not a particular presentation or lure.
Tough to define, no doubt. Swindle's contemporary definition and approach to junk fishing, for example, is totally different than Iaconelli's and others.
Brad
BCline reply :
Junk Fishing typically works best for me.
Boomstick reply :
I try to find a pattern by junk fishing. Often, it's reading conditions and figuring out what to throw and adjusting from there.
IgotWood reply :
I'd say that the most consistent pattern I get into is on standing trees. I fish a small lake loaded with cypress. Most of it is 2'-6', with a few trees going down to 10'. The bass seem to relate to the wind or sun in regards to their position on the trees. For example, right now, I seem to be getting more bites on the sunny side of the tree. It makes perfect sense...the fish are staying in the sunlight because it feels warmer. So obviously, I am going to fish the sunny side of the trees first, and more thoroughly.
The pattern changes with the season. During the heat of the summer, they prefer the shady side of the tree. And in the evenings around dusk, they often appear to come near the surface and patrol around the trees. Maybe they're surveying their "house" before dark, or perhaps looking for something to eat because the panfish are usually eating insects off the surface at this time. On a breezy day, they seem to set up on the lee side of the tree, which also makes sense to me.
To be honest, this is the only consistent pattern that I've dialed in on. On other lakes, I'll usually "junk" fish until I get a bite or two, then I'll stick with that bait, color, depth, cover, etc.
optimator reply :
I just fish 
Bassun reply :
I think some are getting caught up with a plan vs a pattern.
To me, a plan is just that --- where and what you plan to fish (based on XYZ). You fish that plan to hopefully establish a pattern. Say you plan on fishing Cove X because you think fish will be there, you have docks, laydowns, ledges, etc. You may start by fishing whatever you think they are on, but check out other targets along the way. If you notice they are ALL being caught on the docs, but none are hanging out on the ledges, your plan lead to the start of a pattern.
If I'm just fun fishing, I often spend way too long in one area and "junk fish" everything. "That log just looks too good to pass up!". If I'm fishing for money (which, I don't do anymore to be candid), I'll start skipping what has been unproductive, and focus on the pattern of where they have been and how they were caught to increase catch rates. Then I will try to fish other places which have the same or similar features.
I do, however, feel that lures and colors are in fact part of the pattern. If you notice they are hitting white spinnerbaits, but not black -- why would you throw black? If they are hitting jigs on the fall, but not bounced on the bottom, why would you spend time bouncing them? I think everything you can duplicate falls into the pattern. Lure type, size, color, retrieve, as well as location is part of the pattern IMO.
I think we all fish to find a pattern, if we are fishing to be successful - whether we acknowledge it as pattern fishing or not (probably as much semantics as anything). Sometimes we get lucky and the pattern happens to be what we like to do - or what we got lucky and stumbled onto --- sometimes its taken a lot of trial and error to find it. Fishing topwater, late evening, near those docks where you catch them every summer is a pattern. When you catch them there, that is the right pattern.
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