The 25lb Bass 2024
The_Natural reply :
I just watched 'Hooked on Bass' on the National Geographic Channel, which features Jed Dickerson and his two compadres. National Geographic highlighted a section about the famed 25lber, and how jed had been relentlessly persuing the world record. The boys recounted the day they found it. They said they found the fish the day before, but since the park was getting ready to close, they decided to camp out and fish for her the next day. In actuality, they weren't the ones to find the fish at all. They had gone back to the dock and heard of a guy trying to catch a 'huge' bass that was on a bed. They motored over to the guy and looked down. They saw it was 'jed's fish', and offered the guy money and Gloomis fishing rods if he would leave. The guy wouldn't leave, and continued to fish for the bass. Jed and the boys decided to camp out by the entry gate of lake Dixon until the next morning, to beat the guy who was fishing for her, or anyone else for that matter. I had to roll my eyes a bit when I heard them recount their story; seems like they left that part out because it steals from their thunder a bit.
Mattlures reply :
I dont see anything wrong with the way it realy went down. I do think it looks bad to say the "chose" not to fish for it because of the weather, That is just not true. I see nothing wrong with them offering to buy that spot. It would have been much worse had they just started casting at the fish while the other guy was fishing for it. I would like to see that show.
Muddy reply :
That is when you take it outside the realm of good sportsmanship and it gets outta line.No matter how you want to put it pressuring and paying people off spots for a shot at the record is over the line.
You can't paint ugly nice.
SirSnookalot reply :
I agree with Muddy. It wasn't Jed's fish, Jed had an obsession, not possession.
UrbanRedneck reply :
QuoteI say there is one 25 lb in texas and it will come from Lake Fork or Gibbons Creek,more than likely Lake Fork.
LOL! I guess everybody has dreams......
The_Natural reply :
QuoteI dont see anything wrong with the way it realy went down. I do think it looks bad to say the "chose" not to fish for it because of the weather, That is just not true. I see nothing wrong with them offering to buy that spot. It would have been much worse had they just started casting at the fish while the other guy was fishing for it. I would like to see that show.
I edited my original post. I missed parts of the show the first time I watched it, and so I re-watched it. It is actually the narrator talking, and he said the boys found the fish the day before, but the park was closing...and so they camped out by the gate to be the first ones there. I am ambivalent about the money and rods offer; I think we all debated that a while back. I just think that the story should be told correctly when told in a documentary. Great show though...I really enjoyed it.
The_Natural reply :
QuoteI watched it..I know one thing-G.W.Perry is happy. ;DI say there is one 25 lb in texas and it will come from Lake Fork or Gibbons Creek,more than likely Lake Fork.
I honestly think it is near impossible for a bass to reach 25lbs unless it is eating trout.
fishfordollars reply :
QuoteQuoteI watched it..I know one thing-G.W.Perry is happy. ;DI say there is one 25 lb in texas and it will come from Lake Fork or Gibbons Creek,more than likely Lake Fork.
I honestly think it is near impossible for a bass to reach 25lbs unless it is eating trout.
X2
Mattlures reply :
They did not find it the day before. They found the guy(cant remember his name) fishing for it and offered to pay him to let them fish for it. I dont think there is anything at all wrong with that. There is nothing unsportsman like about it either.The guy didnt have a problem with it either. Now if the guy said no and they persisted then thats where it would cross the line. Just throwing an offer out there is a nonissue. When the guy said no he asked them if he could borrow thier phone and he called his girlfriend to tell her he was coming home late. The guys watched him fish for her. Now if they would have casted at it it then that would be a huge problem and I would probably hurt somebody over that. After that they bought a camping permit which allows them to get onto the water a few minutes before the fisherman waiting at the gate. They werent the only ones that knew that fish was there. They were smart enough to get the permit and get to the fish first the next day.
I have fished around those guys and I cant say I like them but I dont think they did anything wrong. If I rolled up on a guy bedfishing for the world record and I had money to offer I would probably polightly make an offer to.
The realy strange thing about this whole story is when Jed caught her she weighed 22lbs 7ounces on a certified scale with several witnesses including the lake ranger. But when the fish and game weighed her she had lost some eggs and barfed up some food. When the F&G weighed her she was only 21.11. I still dont know why the second weight is the one that counted or why Jed never submitted the paper work to the IGFA. He broke the record. I dont get those guys.
Muddy reply :
Matt: I have some strong disagreements with some of the behaviors of the big bass guys. this does not mean I do not respect them I don't know them, so I do not have issue
I have a problem with paying someone to come off a fish the way a have a problem when I am first to a spot, and some tourny guy comes and tries to explain me off it because he has money on the line and that makes his "right " to the spot more important than mine, it's happened and more than once
I don't care if there is a dad and his soon fishing that spot with Zebco 33's and crawlers, if they got there first and are within the law, these guys who are in the hunt for the record d o not have the right to bother people and pressure them or pay them off spots, period the end
It's like some of the catch and release discussions here where all the trophy hunters berate folks who legally fish for the pan, and withing legal limits
I am firmly committed that my enjoyment on the water is just as valid and equally deserved as pros and big fish chasers. Neither group has the right to pressure me as to their needs and wants being more than mine.I will never change my mind about this, and I think it's pitiful that other fisherman tolerate this stuff at all
The money is the problem: the endorsements, the baits to sell, the boat space for sponsors to hang their name om. Look I do not take part in any of that, I say good for those who do. I also say that we casual fisherman have the same rights to fish where we want and do not have to alter our lifestyles and ethics to support the big fish and tourny guys.
LooksLikeSinbad reply :
QuoteI still dont know why the second weight is the one that counted or why Jed never submitted the paper work to the IGFA. He broke the record. I dont get those guys.
I believe at the time he said he didn't pursue the record because it was foul hooked.
SimonSays reply :
When you say "beat" do you mean physically attack? that would be rather unsportsman like I'd think ;D
Catt reply :
Sorry Cowboy but Gibbons Creek Reservoir has not produced a ShareLunker in the last 14 yrs. and even the mighty Lake Fork with it's state record 18.18 hasn't produced a bass over 16 lbs since 2002.
I do share your enthusiasm but I have faced the reality that 18.18 is a long ways from 22.04 
mattm reply :
QuotePosted by: LooksLikeSinbad Posted on: Today at 6:38amMattlures wrote on Today at 5:50am:
I still dont know why the second weight is the one that counted or why Jed never submitted the paper work to the IGFA. He broke the record. I dont get those guys.
I believe at the time he said he didn't pursue the record because it was foul hooked.
That was the second time they caught the fish.
mattm reply :
QuotePosted by: SimonSays Posted on: Today at 8:11amWhen you say "beat" do you mean physically attack? that would be rather unsportsman like I'd think
When you are flipping for the world record bass on a bed, and someone comes up and starts casting at her as well let me know what you do.
SoFl-native reply :
After watching that show......I dont think i would want to trophy bass fish in California. It doesnt look like very much fun at all.
Muddy reply :
I fish, I have fun and If a catch the fish of a lifetime or some kind of record great, I just do not zero in my efforts on it.
I can honestly say that after bed fishing , for a few days on Lake Fork, it is not my groove.
donbeatya reply :
I guess everyone missed the whole part about how they have all changed theyre live's to revolve around dottie right. theyre was nothing wrong with what they did at all. i mean come on they have watched this fish and studied it for quite some time and they knew it was gonna be a beast so they did everything possible to catch her and they were honest when they knew they had foul hooked her they could have easily kept that a secret those guys are definitly class act BIG ***ATICS. and sorry real cowboy id have to disagree theyre is no way the next record will come from lake fork, id say falcon lake before lake fork, but there two possibiliteis that the NEXT record will come from are lake castiac or lake dixon they regualarly pull 15+ pounders out these bass just devour 10-12'' rainbow trout
Muddy reply :
They were honest because they would have had to explain the hook marks in her back, I would think at this point any potential world record would undergo a lot of scrutinity :By the Way Dottie died last year. Some of the Big Bass phiosophy and the ideas of what the rest of us mortal fisherman should do to support thier causes are over the top and I stick to my guns that there is way too much wierd stuff going on, and a lot of ethical fisherman out there also.
KYntucky Warmouth reply :
I thought it was Mac Wheakley that caught her at her largest and released her because she was foul hooked
hawgchaser reply :
Its an interesting story but atleast there was no paperwork submitted for the record. I leave big fish alone when I see them on a bed but I guess it might be different if it was the world record.
KYntucky Warmouth reply :
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=51335470
bocabasser reply :
QuoteThey did not find it the day before. They found the guy(cant remember his name) fishing for it and offered to pay him to let them fish for it. I dont think there is anything at all wrong with that. There is nothing unsportsman like about it either.The guy didnt have a problem with it either. Now if the guy said no and they persisted then thats where it would cross the line. Just throwing an offer out there is a nonissue. When the guy said no he asked them if he could borrow thier phone and he called his girlfriend to tell her he was coming home late. The guys watched him fish for her. Now if they would have casted at it it then that would be a huge problem and I would probably hurt somebody over that. After that they bought a camping permit which allows them to get onto the water a few minutes before the fisherman waiting at the gate. They werent the only ones that knew that fish was there. They were smart enough to get the permit and get to the fish first the next day.I have fished around those guys and I cant say I like them but I dont think they did anything wrong. If I rolled up on a guy bedfishing for the world record and I had money to offer I would probably polightly make an offer to.
The realy strange thing about this whole story is when Jed caught her she weighed 22lbs 7ounces on a certified scale with several witnesses including the lake ranger. But when the fish and game weighed her she had lost some eggs and barfed up some food. When the F&G weighed her she was only 21.11. I still dont know why the second weight is the one that counted or why Jed never submitted the paper work to the IGFA. He broke the record. I dont get those guys.
so if a college student does all of the research on a term paper and he sells it to another student that's ok? i say find your own d**n fish and the reward will be that much greater. jmho
fishizzle reply :
I didn't realize Dottie died until I saw that show. I'm glad, George Perrys story is more interesting.
hawgchaser reply :
QuoteQuoteIts an interesting story but atleast there was no paperwork submitted for the record. I leave big fish alone when I see them on a bed but I guess it might be different if it was the world record.I have not been on this board long-so I will probably get slapped like a red headed step child for saying this -BUT- if you fish anytime during Feb,March,you are catching alot of fish "off of the bed" so whats the difference if you can see them...we chase tails on reds and chunk lures at em all day,whats the difference-not being a smart arse-just curious.I guess what I am saying is-I see alot of bass in the weeds and structures during this time-if I can see them I am suppose to pass on them??
No its a good question. I know that I have caught bed fish before. However, many fish on their beds have lock jaw. They will only bite to defend her bed. I do not target these fish. I also don't tell anyone that they shouldn't. Its a personal decision that i have made.
I also think it is extremely boring no matter how big she is. I watched a guy sit on a fish for 4 houes last year until he gave up. During that time I caught a lot of fish. The fish he was after was probably 8-10 pounds. I would rather actually fishh all day then flip white tubes and lizards at 1 ten pounder.
Muddy reply :
QuoteCan you see someone taking home a 22 lb bass and eating it today??
Hey Reel Cowboy I respect you have not been here long , let me explain. There have been many,many Catch and Release threads here closed. There are many Tournament Fisherman and Trophy Hunters who get aggressive when people talk about things like taking a few 2 lb's for a trip and cooking them. This is legal, and on a lot of waters a good management tool I am not talking about frying 20 lb bass
Would I throw back a 20 lbr, not in a lifetime, I would get a real mount. I have been buying a licence for many years now, always obey the law and always catch and release. I have killed a grand total of 4 bass in 12 years, all gut hooked, all eaten
If I catch a huge trophy, it's gonna be a real mount on my wall, the one I have been dreaming of my whole life. I do not believe it is my sworn duty to let another guy catch the same fish. We are talking one fish, first one over 10lbs in my life, ain't no ones business but my own
I am out there fishing for me, and while I respect others, if they have to depend on the one fish of a lifetime I decide to keep, than they have issues I can not fix
I live in the North East, I do not get to fish until APRIL!!! If I am lucky. I have nothing against bed fishing, I get no personal enjoyment in staying with one fish, I can see for over an hour, not for me.
Muddy reply :
Thanks , and by the wy WELCOME to the Site 8-)
flechero reply :
QuoteI do share your enthusiasm but I have faced the reality that 18.18 is a long ways from 22.04
I'm of a different belief or maybe just more enthusiastic... That argument used to come up a lot... but comes up much less, ever since Ca went from 21-7 to 25-1 lbs in a single fish.
I'm a huge believer in this... just because she hasn't been caught, doesn't mean she's not there. The odds of catching the biggest fish in the lake FAR EXCEED the odds of ever catching her.
And yes, at 37 years of age, I still wake up before 5 am on Christmas morning. 
J Francho reply :
Same here ;DQuoteAnd yes, at 37 years of age, I still wake up before 5 am on Christmas morning.
Anyway, as far as the off topic comment about bed fishing....I think its wrong to assume that all fish are spawning during the spawn. Many do not spawn at all.
burleytog reply :
Everyone has a price.
bocabasser reply :
there is a really good article on nationalgeographic.com (just type in largemouth bass in the search) about the 10 days the nat geo photog spent with jed, mac and mike during this hunt. dennis green the head coach of the vikings was involved as well. those cats spent 8 YEARS chasing 1 fish. my wife would have left me for sure.
hawgchaser reply :
QuoteI totally understand your point of view...At the same time I just cant understand when I hear people say they wont fish a bed-when in fact they are doing it all day long,to a degree.
If you check my website the two bass you see on the wall were not meant to be,one is 7 lbs and one is 8 lbs and both were caught during the spawn and both hit a Rattle trap so hard that they needed surgery to get the Rat -trap out of them...so they went on the wall.There are two things I have tried to accomplish in my 48 years-one is a ten pound bass the other is a drop tine buck-BOTH have eluded me to this date....but I have my dream. ;D ;D
I dont hunt or fish to target these two-if it happens it happens if it dont I will leave them for my grandchildren.
ps: whats wrong with taking a couple of fish home to eat??
The large majority of fish in any given lake during this time are not on beds.
But I agree this is a topic for another thread.
Great show and back on topic.
Catt reply :
flechero you know as well as I do that Barry St. Clair's 18.18 was caught in 1992 and is the only 18 lb+ ever caught in the state of Texas and only 5 over 17 lb has ever been recorded in the state with the latest being in 1991. Do I think there is a 20 pounder swimming around in Texas waters? Why Certainly!
But if we can't break 18 how are we going to break 22-4?
Comparing Texas to Cali aint even close all of their top 20 bass are larger than our top 1
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteTrue -everyone has a price...I could go kill a droptine buck 2morrow. It just wouldnt mean anything to me after killing it behind some high fence...
BINGO! (You beat me to it.)
Welcome. Pleasure to have your experience, and diplomacy, on board.
Branuss04 reply :
QuoteTake a real close look at the documentary again--did you happen to notice that all the boats had small trolling motors and nothing else ??
Did you happen to notice that there was no one else on the water??
the pressure that the fish have to put up with is the key to California's success..and diet.They have no where compared to the boat pressure that Texas has etc etc.Its like going to a really large stock tank and catch a 15 lb-er and claim victory on a stock tank nobody hardly gets to fish or is closed to the public.If you think I am kidding -Google the lake they mentioned and read about it...nuff said. Catch ya'll later.
:-X
bmadd reply :
QuoteI will go ahead and add this -then I need to shut it down.We (texas) can catch one bigger than 18 + anyday now..they are there.Yes there is 20lbs bass in texas -RIGHT NOW.
Take a real close look at the documentary again--did you happen to notice that all the boats had small trolling motors and nothing else ??
Did you happen to notice that there was no one else on the water??
the pressure that the fish have to put up with is the key to California's success..and diet.They have no where compared to the boat pressure that Texas has etc etc.Its like going to a really large stock tank and catch a 15 lb-er and claim victory on a stock tank nobody hardly gets to fish or is closed to the public.If you think I am kidding -Google the lake they mentioned and read about it...nuff said. Catch ya'll later.
They only have trolling motors because you are not allowed to bring your own boat. Only rent those jon boats with trolling motors. Also, did you ever think you didn't see anyone there because of the filming process? Ask Mattlures or Bizz or Branuss or anybody from Cali how many people fish that lake during the spawn. I bet you'd be surprised how much pressure actually hits that lake. That lake is only 70 acres at full pool. I would be willing to bet everything I had there are more people fishing Dixon per acre then Fork.
bmadd reply :
I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't think you understand fully what you said. You were saying that part of the reason the fish in California get so big is because they don't have the pressure that those in Texas have. Do you really think that the potential to catch a World Record Bass would not attract a LARGE amount of people to that body of water? Documented proof that it lived there and that it could be caught, and you don't think that lake would attract numerous anglers? It may be a pond compared to Fork, Falcon, Rayburn, Toledo Bend, or even my KY Lake and that makes for an unfair comparison. But I do think you are disrespecting it and the anglers. That's 70 acres of super clear water with lots of guys throwing everything day in and day out.
Branuss04 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteTake a real close look at the documentary again--did you happen to notice that all the boats had small trolling motors and nothing else ??
Did you happen to notice that there was no one else on the water??
the pressure that the fish have to put up with is the key to California's success..and diet.They have no where compared to the boat pressure that Texas has etc etc.Its like going to a really large stock tank and catch a 15 lb-er and claim victory on a stock tank nobody hardly gets to fish or is closed to the public.If you think I am kidding -Google the lake they mentioned and read about it...nuff said. Catch ya'll later.
:-X
Dont take that out of text-I am not bad mouthing your pond.But when you compare Lake Livingston Tx to the 75 acre pond on the show..well there really is no comparison..
I'm not trying to take that out of text, and this will be completely off topic from this thread, but....
Our "Ponds" become EXTREMELY over fished. After Dottie hit the spotlight, that "Pond" blew up. And at 75 acres there it was easy for it to become over fished. A 75 acre pond simply cannot absorb all the pressure. A lake the size of Livingston is able to take A LOT more fishing pressure and not even feel it.
The lake that pooped out the new Cali state record smallie went from a "Kokanee Fisherman's Dream Lake" to a "Wannabe Trophy Hunter Lake". The lake became extremely popular to the casual angler and got slammed the last couple years.
These are some examples of why "Most" of us Cali guys don't go telling everybody where we fish... this is why you will see me editing my backgrounds on my fish pictures. California is so populated with fisherman that will go wherever the "Bite" is.
I've seen this happen to a half dozen lakes, a absolute giant is caught, people get word there are big fish, everybody and their mother flocks to the lake and the lake becomes over fished. Obviously we have water like the Delta and Clear Lake and Folsom that are big enough that can take the pressure on a daily basis and still consistently produce giants.
But to say our lakes aren't pressured is absurd. We've shown the world that we HAVE world record bass. That alone brings everybody out of the woodwork to catch her.
Reel Cowboy---- No harm intended.
{Rant Over}
WRB reply :
To pursue giant bass requires you to be dedicated to catching them. Otherwise you would simply give up when the fishing gets tough.
Dottie as noted was found dead and weighed 19.3 lbs at that time. To this date no one has been able to confirm Dotties measurements; length and girth. Dottie is frozen and stored, so comfirmation shouldn't be that difficult.
IMO Dotties never weighed 25 lbs, maybe 22+ lbs is within the relm of possiblilty.
Dottie was snagged with a trap hook rigged jig and snagging bass outside the mouth is illegal in California, end of world record.
The bottom line is Perry's bass is established as the world record, without any evidence the bass actually existed. We accept this bench mark and target it. Dottie was the heaviest LMB ever weighed, too bad she was caught illegally.
WRB
notes; California, SoCal, lakes receive more bass fishing pressure; man hours fishing for bass verses availble water, then any other state.
Pure FLMB ot F1, F2 intergrates have the highest potentail to grow to over 20 lbs.
Planted rainbow trout are not essential to growing over 20 lbs, but they help.
My 2 Pb bass are larger then the Texas state record; 18.6 & 19.3. It's always possible for Texas to set the next record, however California has a much higher % of potentail WRB.
The_Natural reply :
I clicked on the general bass fishing section just a second ago, and saw this thread (which I posted at like 2am) had 4 pages already. I thought, "Oh sh!t". I thought there was a chance it could turn ugly, but to my surprise everyone has kept their cool for the most part. Kudos...
Sam reply :
You do what you have to do.
There is a guy in Virginia who is trying to set Virginia's state bass record.
I know where he fishes and it is off limits to all.
He has been arrested but he stills goes back.
It is an obsession with him.
Funny thing is that the current record was caught way down in southern Virginia, totally 180* from where he thinks the big lunker lives.
Sorry guys, but I was told where he fishes in confidence so I can't tell anyone. :'(
flechero reply :
Quoteflechero you know as well as I do that Barry St. Clair's 18.18 was caught in 1992 and is the only 18 lb+ ever caught in the state of Texas and only 5 over 17 lb has ever been recorded in the state with the latest being in 1991. Do I think there is a 20 pounder swimming around in Texas waters? Why Certainly!But if we can't break 18 how are we going to break 22-4?
Comparing Texas to Cali aint even close all of their top 20 bass are larger than our top 1
Catt,
I certainly didn't mean to compare Tx. and Ca. potential, only that there doesn't have to be a gradual rise in weights of biggest fish caught in any one location. I think the fact that cali jumped 3-4 pounds would suggest that Tx could jump 2 lbs.
Oh and I wasn't suggesting that we would or even could break the world record, only wanted to suggest that there are probably fish here that are several pounds bigger than we have caught. TPWD shocked up a 19 at meridian state park last year (according to their park office) and it's not much more than a pond. The previous record there? I don't think they even have a sharelunker.
Just food for thought.
BassinBoy reply :
QuoteSorry Cowboy but Gibbons Creek Reservoir has not produced a ShareLunker in the last 14 yrs. and even the mighty Lake Fork with it's state record 18.18 hasn't produced a bass over 16 lbs since 2002.I do share your enthusiasm but I have faced the reality that 18.18 is a long ways from 22.04
Well said
Muddy reply :
We don't argue. it's just that we are all always right, you will fit right in here, the greatest bunch on the Internet and it has everything to do with how Glenn and the Mods keep the place together
bmadd reply :
Reel Cowboy,
I'll admit it might have been somewhat of an argument but not in any means was there any bad blood involved we all agree to disagree here. I guess we just didn't understand each others point that we were trying to make. All is fun here.
Mattlures reply :
First off in the last 5 or so years lake dixon has been the most preasured lake in the country and probably the world durring the spawning months. Every boat gets rented and the shorleines were filed with guys. That filming was when the spawn was over.
To Muddy and bocabasser You are right and also verry wrong. I completly aggree with you that just becuase somebody has money or a better boat or are in a tournament etc does not give them any more rights to spot period. I never said that and I am also very annoyed when somebody comes in on my spot. I am also very curtious towards others guys on the water. IF and this is a big if, they presured or bothered the guy then that is wrong. if they simply made an offer and did not persist when they were denied then I dont think they did anything wrong. I wasnt there that day so either way you guys and my self are just geussing as to how that went down. I do know after talking to a 100 guys that that guy was not bothered by them so I assume they just made the offer and accepted his NO.
Now as for somebody coming up and flipping on a world record bass when I am there first and working the fish, Yes I would get physical over that. I am verry easy going but that would definatley fire me up.
Also to clear up some of the misunderstandings, Mike long caught her first, at 20 lbs. the Jed caught her at 22.7 thats the time and weighing that bothers me, then Mac caught her at 25.1
fourbizz reply :
somebody reel ly doesnt make any sense.
Branuss04 reply :
QuoteQuotesomebody reel ly doesnt make any sense.
Dont just say that and back out..Elaborate your opinion.Its a open forum-go ahead and say whats on your mind.
No... please don't invite him back in :
Branuss04 reply :
QuoteHis post made it sound like he was confused about something-something didnt make sense to him-and since he could not comprehend whatever it was -I was going to explain it to him.He made a point of using (reel ly ) so I figure it was directed at me..I could be wrong...I must be wrong,out of 5 pages,only one person got confused.
I know your new here and all, but everybody has their "Bassresource Personality". You will learn that each and everyone of us has a unique characteristic that defines who were are and how we act on here. "99%" of us mean no harm or foul by the way we act. Take NOTHING by heart. It's all fun and games around here. JUST LET IT GO!!!
paul. reply :
there are really 2 issues with fishing pressure, one of which people usually overlook. the first is the quantity of fishing pressure - i.e. how many people fish the lake in question. but to me the second issue, the one that is overlooked, is perhaps an even bigger factor. that is the quality of the fishing pressure.
i would 10-1 rather fish a lake that is pressured by 50 novices than i would one that is pressured by 25 "sticks".
when you take a look at the pressure cali receives, you must also factor in the quality of the fishermen there - particularly in a world record scenario. the "hot" lakes in cali not only get hammered by average joe fisherman. they get hit by guys like long, kerr, dickerson, etc. these guys are the best in the world at what they do. they SPECIALIZE in catching trophies. they are not trying to win a tournament. they are not trying to catch a nice fish or even a fish that most of us would consider the "fish of a lifetime". they are after THE fish and they have honed their skills to a razor edge to specifically target big bass. so the big bass in cali not only see a ton of lures, they see a ton of lures from the best trophy fishermen on the planet.
i'm not saying that texas does not have any great trophy hunter fishermen, b/c i'm sure they do. matter of fact, i know of at least 2 good ones on this very board. but the best trophy hunters are in cali b/c the best trophy bass are in cali.
if my goal was simply to catch a 10- 13 pound bass and i had to choose between texas and cali, i wouldn't even have to think about it. it'd be texas for sure. but to try (and i emphasize TRY) to catch a 20, i'd be a fool not to go to cali simply because that's the only place 20 pounders have been legitimately caught.
but since i'm a poor boy, i guess i'll just stay here in tennessee and continue to wish and hope. ;D
this is a cool discussion.
Muddy reply :
QuoteFirst off in the last 5 or so years lake dixon has been the most preasured lake in the country and probably the world durring the spawning months. Every boat gets rented and the shorleines were filed with guys. That filming was when the spawn was over.To Muddy and bocabasser You are right and also verry wrong. I completly aggree with you that just becuase somebody has money or a better boat or are in a tournament etc does not give them any more rights to spot period. I never said that and I am also very annoyed when somebody comes in on my spot. I am also very curtious towards others guys on the water. IF and this is a big if, they presured or bothered the guy then that is wrong. if they simply made an offer and did not persist when they were denied then I dont think they did anything wrong. I wasnt there that day so either way you guys and my self are just geussing as to how that went down. I do know after talking to a 100 guys that that guy was not bothered by them so I assume they just made the offer and accepted his NO.
Now as for somebody coming up and flipping on a world record bass when I am there first and working the fish, Yes I would get physical over that. I am verry easy going but that would definatley fire me up.
Also to clear up some of the misunderstandings, Mike long caught her first, at 20 lbs. the Jed caught her at 22.7 thats the time and weighing that bothers me, then Mac caught her at 25.1
I am not wrong about anything I wrote, just because you say so.I do not care what kind of expert you are and what products you make, the pursuit of the world record and all the money involved has made some reprehensible behavior in the name of money and prestige acceptable to some, a very few some and not all fisherman agree.
5bass reply :
Take a deep breath guys, this has been a decent discussion so far.
P.S. That Duclos guy and his bathroom scale bass had 'em all covered
Catt reply :
I have to agree with paul on the subject of the kind of pressure a lake receives; I've been around the tournament trails on Toledo Bend for 37 years now and I could list you probably 75 anglers that are either Pros or Semi Pros that fish these trails regularly but of these maybe a dozen are big bass hunters. Many guys get upset when they see someone on one of their spots I do not because I first consider the quality of the angler and face it most are not a threat. I've given out many locations to many anglers here knowing full well they respect me; understand not putting too much pressure on the location and most aint on the lake that often.
flechero, you know full well that it's all in fun; I firmly believe in the abilities of Texas Parks & Wildlife to produce trophy bass and I also believe Texas is the bass fishing capitol of the world.
As for the Cali bass breaking the world record officially or not we all know it happened
NYfishwow reply :
california produces bigger bass then texas so i would disagree with that. as for obsession over any fish is kind of wrong, leads to poor actions. If i had a 30 lb largemouth in my area, i would never show it off to anyone.
Cali bass going to break the record again, i fished in TX its not that good. Believe me ;D
WRB reply :
Fishing pressure should consider the size of the fishery being targeted. SoCal trophy bass lakes are very small when compared to big bass fisheries around the country, Mexico or Cuba.
A good friend of mine has a private lake in MO that is larger than Dixon for example. DVL is considered a big lake; it is less than 4 miles long! Casitas, Castaic where serveral giant bass were caught are less than 3 miles, when full and that is rare. Most of these lakes are less than a mile long and would fit into a creek arm on Toledo Bend.
The giant bass must survive being caught a few times during it's life in SoCal; C & R isn't an option, it's essentail for these bass to grow big.
It is hard to imagine what fishing pressure is to you try to trophy fish a small CA public lake. Giudes trying to catch these giants with live bait for their clients, skilled big bass specialists and a hord of weekend fisherman looking for that fish of a life time. Big bass is big business.
Another friend giudes at El Salto on occasion (Iovino) and he tells me that the Texas anglers are very good bass fishermen on average and a fun to fish with.
20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.
WRB
flechero reply :
Quotei fished in TX its not that good.
Wow, that suggests a few things! 
Branuss04 reply :
QuoteFishing pressure should consider the size of the fishery being targeted. SoCal trophy bass lakes are very small when compared to big bass fisheries around the country, Mexico or Cuba.A good friend of mine has a private lake in MO that is larger than Dixon for example. DVL is considered a big lake; it is less than 4 miles long! Casitas, Castaic where serveral giant bass were caught are less than 3 miles, when full and that is rare. Most of these lakes are less than a mile long and would fit into a creek arm on Toledo Bend.
The giant bass must survive being caught a few times during it's life in SoCal; C & R isn't an option, it's essentail for these bass to grow big.
It is hard to imagine what fishing pressure is to you try to trophy fish a small CA public lake. Giudes trying to catch these giants with live bait for their clients, skilled big bass specialists and a hord of weekend fisherman looking for that fish of a life time. Big bass is big business.
Another friend giudes at El Salto on occasion (Iovino) and he tells me that the Texas anglers are very good bass fishermen on average and a fun to fish with.
20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.
WRB
It's not just bass fishing preasure, don't forget all the Bank beaters, trout fisherman, and bucket grabbers that add to the pressure. With these SoCal lakes being stocked on a regular basis with trout, a lot of people flock to these lakes for the trout.
bubbler reply :
yeah well dont count casitas out boys. its guna come from a big old swimbait windin the drop offs.
Catt reply :
QuoteQuotei fished in TX its not that good.Wow, that suggests a few things!
Dear God, please put your arms around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth.
paul. reply :
Quote20+ bass are very rare fish and we may never see a valid 22+.
to me this brings up another interesting issue. the bar seems to have been raised so high on what is considered "valid" that i wonder if ANY bass or the lucky angler who caught it could withstand all the scrutiny it would take nowadays to become a "legitimate" world record.
seems that the world record largemouth has become the most coveted prize in all of sport fishing. any fish that seems to come close to the magic mark, along with the guy who catches it, seem to be almost instantly and hopelessly mired in controversy.
first comes the barrage of questions about its weight, the accuracy of the process by which it was weighed, whether the fish's measurements support the claimed weight, and the legitimacy of the witnesses it was weighed in front of. IF the catch comes through that gauntlet unscathed, next come the questions about the legitimacy of the catch itself. was it caught legally? did the angler "cheat" somehow? were there witnesses to the actual catch? how credible are said witnesses? on and on the list goes.
funny thing about us fisherman. we hate to have our own catches questioned and tend to get pretty p.o.'d or at the very least defensive when someone does question our catches. yet we seem to be very quick to question or doubt another angler's catch. i've seen it happen time and time again here on this board. just human nature i guess.
but it seems that the bigger the fish is, the bigger the controversy is.
as a group, it seems we become more and more skeptical as time goes on. the catch of dottie when she wieghed 25 pounds is only the latest controversy. before that crupi's and duclos' bass were questioned. not to mention perry's world record itself, which is probably the most controversial fish of all time.
personally, i think the next guy who catches the world record is going to have no choice but to kill the fish if he wants to claim the record. even then it will probably be difficult. and of course the "lucky" angler will be crucified, demonized, and hated for killing it. they will have to endure nagging questions from doubters and haters for the rest of their days. even though they will undoubtedly become instantly rich, it kind of makes you wonder how "lucky" they will really be. so ironic. it's a no win situation, but one we would all love to be in.
roadwarrior reply :
Well, the good news...
There was a similar controversy over the World Record Smallmouth
Bass that was resolved after a period of a little more than 50 years.
Davis Hayes was eventually vindicated, but we can credit that to
Bassmaster Magazine. The most interesting part, and what separates
Mr. Hayes from Mr. Perry, is the fact that Hayes had his fish skin
mounted! This is the fish:
http://worldrecordsmallmouth.com/
8-)
flechero reply :
I think the IGFA would make a great government agency. :
Catt reply :
In my mind since there is no proof otherwise George Perry's bass was 22.25 pounds & I also believe Mac Weakley's 25.1 bass broke that record.
paul. reply :
i agree with catt. sometimes i think all the doubting goes overboard and hurts the sport and the reputation of fishermen in general. we have an "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy in this country. but sometimes that doesn't seem to apply to bass fishing where at times, particularly with big fish, it's "guilty until proven innocent". i have no reason at all to doubt perry, crupi, duclos, weakley, dickerson, etc. after all there is some evidence to validate their catches. sometimes i think those who do doubt or criticize are just bitter or jealous. i can usually accept evidence, even just a little sometimes, to support someone's claims fairly easily and view their story as credible. it's outrageous claims with no evidence to back them up that i sometimes have a problem with. but even then, that might be error on my part.
Mattlures reply :
Muddy when I said Wrong I was reffering to you saying it was all about the money and Mac and Jed making an offer. You are correct that I should not have said "wrong" as that is your opinion and just becuase it is different then mine does not make it wrong. The reason I felt it was wrong is you comparred it to a wealthy person trying to buy there way into something or a tournament guy thinking he has rights to a spot over a shore fihsermaon or a guy with a Zebco. Which I totaly agree with you. What I dis agree with you about was this was not the case in this instance. They had been hunting that fish for years and Kyle(I think that was his name) Found it first that morning. They did not pressure him or bully him. They simply made an offer. The offer was regected so they backed off and just watched. If they would have pushed or harrassed or escpecialy casted at the fish then they would be way out of line but from all the info I have heard It didnt go down like that. There is a differnce in the way it happened and the way you presented it.
BTW I dont even know those guys personaly. Everytime I see one of these post about them and Dottie I just try to clear up the facts. So many of the posts have the facts all backwards and twisted.
Muddy reply :
Gottcah; Sorry for coming back so strong, still do not agree but sorry for the way I popped off
WRB reply :
Dotttie, was weighed twice when caught; 21.9 and 25.1, both on uncertified hand held scales and released before being weighed on a certified scale with a DFG witness. The 2 weights are over 3 pounds apart, which scale was correct at the time the fish was weighed?, we will never know.
Whinning about a few pounds, you bet! Jealous, heck no! It's very difficult to get a certified weight on a live bass in California, most of the lakes do not have certified scales at the marina's. Been there, done that and it's not easy.
Perry's bass was awarded a prize at the time it was submitted for the Field & Stream contest. Perry never submitted the catch for record status, it was grandfathered by the IGFA over 20 years later without any proof; no picture, no whitness, no scale slip, only a statement from Perry. We will never know for sure and have accepted the IGFA record for what it is; the world record LM bass 22 lbs 4 oz., or 22.25 lbs.
WRB
roadwarrior reply :
This totally blows me away: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight!
If these guys are on such a passionate quest, why were they
unprepared for success? No certified scale? Wassup with that!
:
IdahoLunkerHunter reply :
QuoteThis totally blows me away: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight!If these guys are on such a passionate quest, why were they
unprepared for success? No certified scale? Wassup with that!
:
Totally agree!
Mattlures reply :
Muddy No need to apologize at all. Its all good.
WRB, When Jed caught Dottie she weighed 22lbs 7 oz. on a CERTIFIED scale in frront of witnesses. later when the DFG showed up and reweighed her she had barfed up some lunch and dropped some egges and weighed 21.11 again on a certified scale. the 25.1 weight was not on a certified scale. I believe the reasson the lighter weight of 21.11 stood was becuase at that time Jed and the guys were members of the world record bass club and they required that the fish be weighed by the DFG. there was a prize of $25,000.00 for the largest fish caught each year and I think Jed had to accept that weight to claim that prize. The IGFA does not have a time restriction on submitting the paperwork for the record. Jed could still submit it for Dotties weight of 22lbs 7 oz and Mac could still submit it for 25.1. I dont thnk Mac would get it but I think Jed would. I am guessing the resaon they dont do it is all the negative stuff that they would have to put up with. Its a shame becuase I think Dottie deserves better.
Mattlures reply :
They were not unpreparred. there is a certified scale at the lake. They were unpreparred to foul hook the fish. When that happened they called thier lawyer and told him they fish was foul hooked and he told them to let it go so they did.
Tucson reply :
Not trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie; The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman. You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her. I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it. Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing. Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?
Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?
OK, I'm done. A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........
Lucky Craft Man reply :
QuoteNot trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie; The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman. You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her. I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it. Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing. Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?
OK, I'm done. A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........
Well, I assume it all depends on what your idea of enjoyment is while fishing. Some people like throwing in a bobber with a worm and watching it float in the same spot for 2 hours. That would drive me nuts. I personally like to fish 13+ hours usually without eating or taking a break. Some people think I am nuts, but that's how I enjoy the sport. I could watch those guys and think they are over the top, but I also can understand that that is how they enjoy the sport (or at least that is how they feed their obsession).
Mattlures reply :
Tuson you are sooo right its scarry. It can definatley be NOT FUN. I actualy felt worried that I would mis my chance. If I wanted to go to a different lake because I knew I could get a 10+ I would be second guessing myself all day becuase I should have beed an Dixon even if I caught a 13lber I would think what did I mis? maybe I could have found her that day. I went up there a bunch and it wasnt that much fun. You hop in your rental and after an hour ever seeable spot has been looked at by arguably the best sight fisherman in the world. Then you hope she well move up later so you just keep looking. It wasnt fun. I was one of the few guy who would actualy throw swimbaits after the morning search. In a strange way I understand Jeb being relieved when Dottie died. It was just as much worring about sombody eles catching hes as it was hoping to catch her yourself. The amount of time those guys put in was rediculous and definatley obsessive. I would not call it fun at all.
Jaheff reply :
I think some of you guy's need to read the book
"sowbelly" by Monte Burke. Good explanation.
I use to live a mile and a half from Dixon when all
this was going on.Yes I have been there when "The Game"
was being played quit interesting to see what went on.
Nuff said.
I also have to say I have met Jed he is a class act on
and off the water.
WRB reply :
QuoteThis totally blows me away: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight!If these guys are on such a passionate quest, why were they
unprepared for success? No certified scale? Wassup with that!
:
A certified scale must have current calibration sticker from the state weights & measures. Your personal digital or spring scale doesn't meet IGFA requirements. In California it is also illegal to transport any game fish. If the marina doesn't have a certified scale, then we illegally transport the bass to the closest post office or retail food store that has a certified scale, weigh the bass, have 2 witnesses sign and date the weigh slip and get a photograph of the bass on the scale. Then we take the bass back to the lake to release it. If you don't document the bass properly, the catch isn't vaild.
The problem of illegally transporting the bass could disqualify the fish for IGFA consideration. Total pain in the arsh!
WRB
J Francho reply :
I had a Chatillion certified by two counties' weights and measures offices. It takes effort, but not impossible.
J Francho reply :
Actually, since we're talking IGFA, here's their requirements: http://www.igfa.org/ScaleCertificationInfo.pdf
32251 reply :
QuoteThey were not unpreparred. there is a certified scale at the lake. They were unpreparred to foul hook the fish. When that happened they called thier lawyer and told him they fish was foul hooked and he told them to let it go so they did.
Now a lawyer is involved.......geez.
I am glad that fish finally won.
Muddy reply :
Despite the above post I am sure with a little effort like J Francho, a certified scale could have been placed at that park. If you are going to put that much effort on catching the next record bass, you would think one of the main priorities would be to have a certified scale on site, at the very least.
Not having one is like trying to break the world land speed record and not having any certified instumentation to certify you mph :
fourbizz reply :
You can get a hand held scale certified. They should have had one.
WRB reply :
QuoteI had a Chatillion certified by two counties' weights and measures offices. It takes effort, but not impossible.
The problem with a spring Chatillion Fish & Game or laboratory quality scale, in the 25 lb weight range, is the graduations are in 4 oz increments, with a 2% accuracy. California requires scales to be certified every 4 months if you are selling a product that requires certification, plus there are cost involved.
Used a Chatillion for years and the IGFA doesn't accept weights, unless you send them the scale to certify prior to and along with submitting a record, plus have a picture with the weight clearly indicated. Fishermen tend to cheat and the IGFA takes that into consideration.
IMO a potential world record bass should be put on ice to eliminate problems.
WRB
fourbizz reply :
http://www.salterbrecknell.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=546&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
Certifiable
J Francho reply :
For a $30 inspection fee, no doubt!QuoteYou can get a hand held scale certified. They should have had one.
BTW, the weights and measures inspectors used to do mine for free. I worked in a store that sold bulk items by weight, and rebagged bulk items, and the scales had to be certified by them, as well as the rebagged items checked for accuracy.
paul. reply :
california: home of the biggest bass and the dumbest bass fishing regulations.
J Francho reply :
QuoteQuoteI had a Chatillion certified by two counties' weights and measures offices. It takes effort, but not impossible.The problem with a spring Chatillion Fish & Game or laboratory quality scale, in the 25 lb weight range, is the graduations are in 4 oz increments, with a 2% accuracy. California requires scales to be certified every 4 months if you are selling a product that requires certification, plus there are cost involved.
Used a Chatillion for years and the IGFA doesn't accept weights, unless you send them the scale to certify prior to and along with submitting a record, plus have a picture with the weight clearly indicated. Fishermen tend to cheat and the IGFA takes that into consideration.
IMO a potential world record bass should be put on ice to eliminate problems.
WRB
All that is true, though I'm not sure why you need CA's blessing that the scale is kosher, if IGFA says it is with a yearly inspection. That's fine anyway, I don't have to worry about catching a world record LMB here in Western NY, LOL. My point was that it isn't nearly as difficult to get a scale certified as it was to catch that fish, so I still agree that they were unprepared.
J Francho reply :
Quotehttp://www.salterbrecknell.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=546&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1Certifiable
Trying to find a price on that model - any idea? I'm thinking around $150?
fourbizz reply :
I think retail is 120, but you can find them on ebay new for 80-90 pretty regularly.
paul. reply :
QuoteIMO a potential world record bass should be put on ice to eliminate problems.
i agree totally with this. the guy who catches it better be ready to kill it if he wants it to hold up. i think things have just gotten way too crazy for any fish that is released alive, no matter how big, to stand up to all the scrutiny and controversy.
of course in today's "catch and release" era, killing the fish is going to present it's own set of problems.
Mattlures reply :
AGAIN for those that didnt read through alll the post
THERE IS A CERTIFIED SCALE AT THE LAKE!!!!!!!!!!!
The Salter is the scale I use.
J Francho reply :
I thought I recalled that the scale was certified by one agency, but not the other, and that they also needed a NR or something. I don't know, sounds weird to me.
paul. reply :
but the biggest question still remains:WHY ISN'T THERE A CERTIFIED SCALE AT THE LAKE?????
just messin' with ya bro.
sounds like you need to go fishing matt. ;D
WRB reply :
QuoteAGAIN for those that didnt read through alll the postTHERE IS A CERTIFIED SCALE AT THE LAKE!!!!!!!!!!!
The Salter is the scale I use.
I understand Dixon has a certified scale, however to the best of my knowledge Dotty wasn't weighed on it, she was weighed using the anglers scales.
back in '94 I caught what I thought may be a world record as it looked to weigh about 22 lbs on my spring scale. Castaic didn't have a certified scale, so loaded the boat on the trailer and hauled the bass to the closest store, the Mini Mart. Told the owner that I had a big bass to weigh and needed a certified weight slip. Went out to the boat, put the bass in my carry bag with some water and took the bass into the store to weigh. The weight was 19.3 and I was very dissappointed!! took the bass quickly back to Casitas and released it.
Went back to the Mini Mart to get my Polariod photo and weight slip and the owner asked if they could reweigh the bass. The problem was they forgot to re set the zero after removing a 2 lb tray, so my bass shouod have been 2 pounds heavier. I will never know for sure what that bass actually weighed. Today it's still my PB at 19.3 It's hard to explain the emotions you go through when you think you have a world record fish. Thinking clearly doesn't happen, you make mistakes and I fully understand how mistakes were made with Dottie, after realizing the bass was foul hooked.
WRB
bmadd reply :
Still a Bigbuckifan reply :
WRB I would love to see a picture of that bass.
Muddy reply :
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/news/story?page=f_fea_bass_top25list
http://www.fishingnetwork.net/top25lmb.htm
http://www.seewald.com/top_25_bass.htm
fishizzle reply :
WRB--can't you sue for that
not only the world record was lost but the million $$$$ endorsements too.
sorry my friend, that is a deep wound.
Dottie got her justice when she passed, she made the top 25 list and was caught possibly weighing 25 lbs+/- she made history and will be spoken of in lore for many years.
Maybe one of the only bass that everyone knows her name and won't be bothered any more---That's justice!!!!!!!!!
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB I would love to see a picture of that bass.
PM your email and will attached a photo. Submitted my 2 top bass to BASS and others with documentation a few months ago, might as well be listed on the top 25, not getting any younger. Be interesting to see what final weight Dotty is listed at; both Dickerson and Long have her listed.
Crupi's 22.01 has never been validated by California, no certified weight.
WRB
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB--can't you sue for thatnot only the world record was lost but the million $$$$ endorsements too.
sorry my friend, that is a deep wound.
Dottie got her justice when she passed, she made the top 25 list and was caught possibly weighing 25 lbs+/- she made history and will be spoken of in lore for many years.
Maybe one of the only bass that everyone knows her name and won't be bothered any more---That's justice!!!!!!!!!
Sue who? I let the fish go! Should have put her on ice and will if I ever catch another potentail record bass. 19.3 + 2 = 21+, not 22+
Dotty was caught at least 3 times, listed by Long and Dickerson currently.
WRB
Muddy reply :
This begs for a couple of questions
1.Why is Crupis Bass on every list
2.Why not post your pic here for all to see
J Francho reply :
That's a fish of a lifetime, WRB. I can't even imagine it.
paul. reply :
i think this is a picture of wrb with a replica mount of the bass he has been talking about. not sure though.
correct me if i'm wrong wrb.
fishizzle reply :
Thats why I'll never swim in California
fivesixone reply :
Good lord!
mattm reply :
Holy mother of god.
Micro reply :
I wonder if this really is Perry's bass...
WRB reply :
Quotei think this is a picture of wrb with a replica mount of the bass he has been talking about. not sure though.correct me if i'm wrong wrb.
That is the fish.
WRB
Catt reply :
Y'all need to learn how to shrink pictures down
WRB reply :
The Perry photo surfaced a few years back. Perry stated he and a freind caught the bass late in the afternoon and it was stormy with rain, took the bass to a post office to weigh it and went home and ate the bass. This photo was taken during a sunny day and no one has identified it as Perry to the best of my knowledge.
WRB
Ready2Fish reply :
that is some fish...i think that is it
Micro reply :
Perry himself said there were photos. At least this site quotes him as saying it...
http://www.mrlurebox.com/GeorgePerryBass.htm
Muddy reply :
A few more questions
Why should we discredit the Perry and Crupi bass , by their photos and not this one?
Why are their fish on the accepted lists?
Why wait over 15 years to get your bass on the list?
Still a Bigbuckifan reply :
WRB what did you catch your bass on. were you bed fishing or what. You cant tell a story like that without a little more details.
WRB reply :
The Perry bass has been questioned for decades. The bass is listed as having a length of 32 inches and a girth of 28 inches. The bass in the photo doesn't appear close to those measurements using the boy and the man as references. I have always said the 32" length must have been measured with the mouth open, today that would be about a 30" length with the mouth closed. The bass in the photo looks like 15 to 17 pound fish, big head with average body mass, IMO. The bottom line; Perry's bass is the offical world record.
The Crupi bass wasn't witnessed or inspected by a fish & game person, therefor California doesn't accept it as a state record catch.
Big bass have a habit of swallowing heavy objects. To be validated, the bass must be checked by the DFG.
Right now it is pre spawn in SoCal and the time I fish for giant bass. All my giant bass over 17 lbs were caught on custom hair jigs, during pre spawn, to date.
There is an old saying " the whale that surfaces gets harpooned". It's better to keep under the radar when fishing our small trophy bass lakes. I don't make my living fishing, therefor no advantage in going public. I did write a few In-Fisherman articles serveral years ago.
WRB
Muddy reply :
Thank you for answering, do you think the time frame will hinder your chances as to getting on the list? That would be a shame.
-HAWK- reply :
A little off topic but, Question:
How is it that on this website http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/news/story?page=f_fea_bass_top25list
It shows Two Bass from Florida that exceed the state record.
Here it shows the state record being 17.27lbs. http://myfwc.com/FISHING/record.html
So what exactly is the real state record for Florida?
bassmaster3000 reply :
I watched that a few nights ago. I had always known about the bass from google images, but never new why it wasn't a record. Oh well.
"DOTTIE THE 25 LB LARGEMOUTH BASS, DIXON LAKE, CA."
R.I.P
:'(
Muddy reply :
Just a thought: Be a great move if the trophy guys convinced everyone Dottie was dead, to get them off that lake. That would be a Brooklyn Move for sure ;D
Fishing Doug reply :
I just now got around to watching the National Geographic show this evening and something that stuck out at me is the fact that once Dottie was found floating, they all felt relieved due to the fact that the bass that could be a new WR is now dead. My question is, why are they assuming that this was the only potential WR bass in Dixon? If 3 other bass have been caught in that lake that weighed north of 19lbs (assuming these 3 were not all Dottie caught multiple times and that I have this fact correct) seems to me that there could still be WR size bass in Dixon....Did they simply have an obsession with one bass (Dottie)?
FD
paul. reply :
muddy i think i remember reading that there was a rumor intentionally circulated that dottie had been found dead shortly after the second time she was caught . supposedly it was to take the heat off the fish (dottie) and the lake. i'm not sure if the weakly, wynn, dickerson trio was behind this or not. somebody with a faster computer than me can probably find it somewhere. obviously it was not true because she was caught again at the 25 pound mark. i think dottie was caught 3 times, once by mike long, once by dickerson, and finally by weakly. 2 out of those 3 times, she was allegedly a world record.
but what if those boys have staged this whole national geographic thing, faked the photos, and conned the entire world? what if she's still out there and these dudes have manipulated the media to pull off the ultimate bassin' hoax? now THAT would be a brooklyn move. ;D ;D ;D
Mattlures reply :
WRB when Dottie weighed 25.1 it was on thier hand held scale. When Jed caught her at 22.7 she was weighed on the certified scale at the lake in front of wittnesses. Then later rewighed at 21.11 by the fish and game.
Mudd Mike Long "killed off" that fish twice to try and lessen the preasure. Those of us who knew better backed up the story of the fish being dead. Mac and Jed took it as an insult and disputed the fish was dead. Mike found a big floater and said he thought it could be dottie after Jed caught her at 22.7. Mike was trying to keep the pressure awy but it dint work to well. You will see guys out here post big fish on purpose to try and draw attention awy from where they have found a bigger fish.
WRB reply :
The 3 anglers listed for lake Dixon all claim Dottie was the same bass, based on the black dot located on the lower gill cover. There isn't any scientific proof the only one gaint bass has a black dot living in Dixon at the time or today, however none have been caught after Dottie died. Dottie isn't resting in piece, she is frozen and being held for study.
Dixon, like most small trophy CA bass lakes is deep and gin clear. After the spawn the giant bass tend to seek sanctuary in deep water or off limit areas near the dam. The giant bass are fairly safe until spring when they follow their spawning urge and migrate into shallower water.
WRB
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB when Dottie weighed 25.1 it was on thier hand held scale. When Jed caught her at 22.7 she was weighed on the certified scale at the lake in front of wittnesses. Then later rewighed at 21.11 by the fish and game.Mudd Mike Long "killed off" that fish twice to try and lessen the preasure. Those of us who knew better backed up the story of the fish being dead. Mac and Jed took it as an insult and disputed the fish was dead. Mike found a big floater and said he thought it could be dottie after Jed caught her at 22.7. Mike was trying to keep the pressure awy but it dint work to well. You will see guys out here post big fish on purpose to try and draw attention awy from where they have found a bigger fish.
1.6 lb difference when Jed weighed the fish, wow that doesn't make any sense, unless something was removed, like another fish or something. Back in the day I was hard over trying to release these giant bass alive and healthy, and it only caused more problems and questions then it's worth. Bet the next 20+ ends up on ice.
There isn't anything wrong with trying to drag a few dog turds across the trail, IMO.
WRB
paul. reply :
here is the story matt is referring to, or at least one of them. i had just forgotten it was long who started the story.
Huge bass found dead at Lake Dixon
By Ed Zieralski
San Diego UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
Excerpt from: HUNTING/FISHING REPORT
November 26, 2003
...Dixon: Big news here is that the historic 21.70-pound bass caught by Jed Dickerson of Carlsbad on May 31 may have gone to big bass heaven. Poway's Mike Long was called in by some trout anglers who found a huge bass floating. Long retrieved the long-dead bass and checked it. He said it was hard to tell, but he believes it's the same bass that Dickerson caught and released in May, and the same one Long himself caught and released in 2001.
It's sporting the same black dot on the lower side of its left cheek that Long identified from pictures in June. Long released it as a 20.75-pounder; Dickerson landed it as a 21.70-pounder, now listed as the fourth-heaviest largemouth bass ever caught in the U.S. Long did some post-mortem work, peeling some scales off the dead lunker and measuring it. The bass was 27½ inches long, the same length as Dickerson's bass. Long was storing it in a freezer at a friend's home, but was ordered to get it out because it was stinking up the freezer even though Long wrapped it in a bunch of garbage bags.
...
UPDATE: Mike later recanted this story as he said he came up with it to stop the hordes from coming in to fish for the world record at the lake. This is especially true since she was caught again 3 years later (recognized by black dot again) and now weighed in at 23#+!!!.
here is the link: http://www.seewald.com/california_state_record_largemouth_black_bass.htm
paul. reply :
i gotta say that at least to me, this has been one of the coolest threads on here in a long time. interesting to me that it started off with questions on fishing ethics (is it o.k. to offer someone money for a shot at a fish, etc.) and now it has come full circle.
i guess i can see why mac and jed took the lie as an insult. because long's timing (after dickerson caught the fish) kinda/sorta insinuates that dickerson might have done something to kill the fish. mishandled or hurt it somehow. after all, he was the last one to catch it before long concocted the story. did long purposely take a shot at dickerson while at the same time trying to mislead a horde of trophy hunters? who knows. but i can see why they took offense. i have read that long and these 3 guys are not exactly best of friends.
but here, within this same story is another ethical dilemma. is it o.k.
to tell a fishing lie for the sake of money or a big fish? how about not necessarily lying, but maybe just misleading or not telling the whole truth? at what point is it o.k. to sacrifice your integrity? or is it ever? different answers for different folks i guess. i hear polygraph tests are administered at some tournaments now. wonder if this will become standard before before being able to claim a state, world, or line class record as well? seems like the higher the stakes, the bigger the temptation to lie.
seems some guys think it's not a big deal to lie in certain fishing scenarios and they are definitely entitled to their opinion. i guess i'd rather be known as a bad fisherman than a great liar.
Mattlures reply :
WRB that is a 12oz difference.
Paul Mike did find a big flaoter soo it wasnt nessasaraly lying. He was leading people into thinking the bass had died. he was also hoping to save the world record bass club from going under. Lyods of London Insurred them for the prize for a world record and they would not reniew the polocy after Jed caught her her at 22.7 / 21.11
Its soo competetive out here its rediculous. The guys in the know are very secrative and only share info ON PURPOSE or with thier closest buddies who they trust. Then there are a lot of wannabees who claim to catch alot of big fish when they might have caught 1 or 2. It can be difficult to weed thru the BS. I have a very close nit group and they know if they talk outside the group they wont get the goods anymore.
I have had both Mike and John send me to fish. I have yet to pay them back because everytime I find something they are there. They have sothern Ca wired. Maybe this year I can put them on some fish.
Catt reply :
Rat poison is 98% corn meal it's the 2% that will kill ya; a lie is about 90% truth
I totally understand being secretive there are some people I would trust with my honey holes while others I simply tell them they better have a fast a _ _ boat cause I do!
Jaheff reply :
Great Thread!!!
Great Post Pual on the coming full circle.
Matt,Great fact checks and keeping it honest. The only thing
i don't agree with you on is I thought Jed is a nice guy.I met
him twice off water and saw him at the lake a few times. He
always had time for small talk with us dumb dock fisherman.
He also always had a smile on his face.
Now to stir the pot....
The next world record will come out of Diamond Valley Lake
Just my opinion and we all have them....
mattm reply :
Quoteguess i can see why mac and jed took the lie as an insult. because long's timing (after dickerson caught the fish) kinda/sorta insinuates that dickerson might have done something to kill the fish. mishandled or hurt it somehow. after all, he was the last one to catch it before long concocted the story.
Paul,
That is what I thought as well, but then I noticed the article about the floater was nearly 6 months after the catch and realease by Jed. Surely, he didn't think Mike was fingering him for it 6 months later.
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB that is a 12oz difference.Paul Mike did find a big flaoter soo it wasnt nessasaraly lying. He was leading people into thinking the bass had died. he was also hoping to save the world record bass club from going under. Lyods of London Insurred them for the prize for a world record and they would not reniew the polocy after Jed caught her her at 22.7 / 21.11
Its soo competetive out here its rediculous. The guys in the know are very secrative and only share info ON PURPOSE or with thier closest buddies who they trust. Then there are a lot of wannabees who claim to catch alot of big fish when they might have caught 1 or 2. It can be difficult to weed thru the BS. I have a very close nit group and they know if they talk outside the group they wont get the goods anymore.
I have had both Mike and John send me to fish. I have yet to pay them back because everytime I find something they are there. They have sothern Ca wired. Maybe this year I can put them on some fish.
Hmmmm 22.70 - 21.11 = 1.59 lbs. I'm geeting old and was watching the Lakers game, but the numbers look right to me.
DVL is an excellent fishery, however also has a striper population and that factor isn't good for giant bass beyond the initail planted adult fish.
Butch Brown may be the trophy fisherman to watch this year. Butch is on top of his game and you couldn't meet anyone more helpful and honest.
Don't confuse staying focused with ignoring people on purpose. Trophy bass fisherman will usually chat with people off the water at the end of the day.
WRB
PS; best big bass day so far in 2009 and I'm working!!!!!!!
Mattlures reply :
I know there is a difference between 22.7 and 22 lbs 7oz.but I meant oz. Ok how about this
The first time it weighed 22lbs 7oz. the next time when it was weighedit weighed 21lbs 11 oz. I am almost posative these weights are correct.
All I can say about those guys is, the local opinion of them is not good. They may act friendy to the dock fisherman but try cruising around looking for fish durring the spawn. I dont know them, I have only interacted with them on the water and they will do anything to get a boat or a spot first. I have had them cut in front of me while acting as a team in seperate boat talking to each other on thier cells to make sure I couldnt see any freash water. I dont even dislike them, I just try and keep the facts straight.
flechero reply :
What makes no sense or at the very least is mud in CA's eye is that a DFG person needs to be at the weigh in... As long as there are witnesses, and the scale is current in its certification, what's the rub? Having to wait for hours on end seemingly cost them one world record already.
I haven't seen a certified scale yet that weighs different with a DFG or TPWD employee present. The only time I've seen a discrepancy is when no witnesses are present. :
flechero reply :
QuoteI have had them cut in front of me while acting as a team in seperate boat talking to each other on thier cells to make sure I couldnt see any freash water
That's pretty sorry, no matter who does it or why. :-/
arul reply :
Who cares about who was on the spot first. The fact that these guys HONESTLY noted a fould hook, when they could have easily said it was mouth hooked, makes them beyond reproach in my eyes. A truly noble gesture.
If that 8 million dollar bounty was still on the table, fould hooked or not, I am claiming the money...
Make sure to watch the NGC re-air if you missed it. A great show! The footage of feeding bass was SAWEET!
arul reply :
QuoteThat is when you take it outside the realm of good sportsmanship and it gets outta line.No matter how you want to put it pressuring and paying people off spots for a shot at the record is over the line.You can't paint ugly nice.
Dude- what shows BETTER sportsmanship than coming clean on a foul hook? That took true honor, way beyond and above paying off for a spot. You ever pay a guide to scope out a spot for you???? You ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot??? Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it. Get off your high horse.
Give these guys the respect they deserve for coming clean on a foul hook and the passion and obsession for the sport they displayed.
roadwarrior reply :
Let's not forget, they had drawn an audience. I'm not saying they
would have done anything else, but the situation was a little different
than sometimes described.
8-)
paul. reply :
interesting observations about the mentality of these guys. i guess working in the field of mental health, the psychology of the true trophy hunter has always intrigued me. it takes something special to do what these guys do day in and day out. whether that something special is a bad thing or a good thing, everyone has to judge for themselves i guess.
but i have seen time and again what big fish will do to people. so much is written about what we do to these fish. so little is written about what they do to us. the documentary that started this whole thread, and other things i have read about these guys, portray them as totally obsessed and possessed in the pursuit of big bass. it's one thing to try to schedule your fishing around your life, quite another to schedule your life around your fishing. i have read about guys sacrificing untold amounts of money, marriages, health, friends, jobs, etc. for just one more cast. the closest thing i can compare it to is a drug of some kind. they give up so much to chase the dream, a dream with absolutely no promises or guarantees. they become distrusting of other fishermen, sometimes people in general, almost to the point of paranoia. they develop strange notions of entitlement to and ownership of a wild creature that belongs to no one. they worry so much about the fish they don't catch, they can't fully appreciate or enjoy the ones they do. to the casual observer, these guys are absolutely crazy doing what they do. the trophy hunters themselves would probably tell you they'd go crazy if they didn't.
that is why i could never do the trophy hunting thing full time. i will never be anything more that a wannabe. sometimes honestly i don't like what it does to me. for every day of triumph, there are untold days of frustration. the high never lasts as long as it did the time before. all of us who are serious about it are at least to some degree different folks in april than we are in december. look what happens to some folks' attitude here on the board when we can't fish if you need further proof.
sometimes you fool yourself into thinking you can jump into this trophy hunting game and nothing will change. then everything changes. it comes with a price.
then again, maybe i'm just trying to keep you away from my fish.
WRB reply :
QuoteWho cares about who was on the spot first. The fact that these guys HONESTLY noted a fould hook, when they could have easily said it was mouth hooked, makes them beyond reproach in my eyes. A truly noble gesture.If that 8 million dollar bounty was still on the table, fould hooked or not, I am claiming the money...
Make sure to watch the NGC re-air if you missed it. A great show! The footage of feeding bass was SAWEET!
I wasn't there so can only state what other folks who were there said; witnesses on a nearby dock watched this catch go down and they reported to the ranger that the bass was snagged with a white jig hooked into the bass's back, just in front of the dorsal fin. The information was not voluntary. After that report, the bass was released. There are more stories about giant bass catches than you can imagine, some true, some false, some outright lies.
WRB
Jaheff reply :
Hey Paul man i like your way of thinking.
Did you read the book Sowbelly?
If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"
thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about
Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two
to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.
You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their
life.But think of how much time they spent out there?
800+days for one fish. WOW
paul. reply :
QuoteHey Paul man i like your way of thinking.Did you read the book Sowbelly?
If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"
thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about
Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two
to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.
You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their
life.But think of how much time they spent out there?
800+days for one fish. WOW
thanks man. i have only read small parts of the book while at the bookstore. i don't own it. i've thought seriously about buying it though. monte burke, the guy who wrote it, was on the national geographic documentary.
you are totally right in saying it's a game. a very tough one to play, and one only a select and gifted few can master. matt, wrb, jay, fish chris, and some others on here have lived through it. i'm sure they could tell us some stories that would be almost unbelievable.
these guys have a skill that i can only dream of. a good fisherman can pattern the fish. a great one can pattern the fish and the other fisherman.
Mattlures reply :
They didnt voluntarily give up the info that the fish was foul hooked. After they caught the fish they went out away from shore and talked ror 15-30 minutes. This is when they say they called their lawyer. Then they came back to the fishing dock which was farther away from the boat dock where the watchers were. Once to got to the dock and weighed the fish on of the guys said he knew they snagged it and they said what are you talking about. He said I saw the fish with the jig in its back and I saw it come up in the net sideways. Then (Ibelieve it was Mike Winn) said just let it go and they did.
This is not hearsay. this is how it went down. I dont know their intentions or what was going through thier minds when all this happened so its all speculation as to if they were going to try and claim it was caught legaly.
mattm reply :
Interesting Matt. Thanks for sharing. I've been trying to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, but its becoming harder and harder to be on their side. It was wrong to try and pretend the fish wasn't foul hooked even for a second if it was, it was wrong to allow the documentary to air saying they found the fish. Plus, I'm like 99% sure that I read an account of this story saying that they found dottie, backed way off and cast a swimbait at her. Dottie didn't move for ever and they just sat there doing everything they could to not move. And then finally they saw Dottie move to the bait, thought she took it and set the hook only to find out they had foul hooked her. Have you ever heard anything like this Matt? I'm almost certain of it. These guys accomplished a great thing. I don't understan a need for all the shadiness.
mattm reply :
I have looked everywher for that story and can't find it. I know it was written cause I can almost see the article in my head, but it must of been about another fish b/c I can't find it anywhere associated with Dottie. I should of just kept my mouth shut.
I still don't understand why not just be on the up and up about everything from the beginning. It would lead to a lot less doubting.
WRB reply :
QuoteHey Paul man i like your way of thinking.Did you read the book Sowbelly?
If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"
thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about
Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two
to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.
You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their
life.But think of how much time they spent out there?
800+days for one fish. WOW
The bass that got me started "in pursuit of giant bass" was 14.7 lbs back in 1969 at Lower Otay, the lake record for 3 days. Try 40 years targeting giant bass, so far.
WRB
Tucson reply :
You ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot??? Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it. Get off your high horse.
Uh-oh. I've got a real problem with this.
Muddy reply :
Happened twice to me, last year. Both times a tourny guy pulled into a spot i was working and asked me to move, I told them my standard answer I got here first, i ain't bothering you so do not bother me. It is not right I find it rude. Neither guy tried to push me off the spot, i guess they knew better
My experience with Tourny fisherman has been 99$ positive and a few have asked me what jig, etc I was using and they really are pleasant and knowledgable fellas for the most part
ps I do not own a high horse i have a 12 foot tinny that I fish from
Mattlures reply :
mattm please dont think that they ever said that they didnt foul hook it. They never tried to claim it was caught in the mouth. All I am saying is they didnt just give up the info that is was snagged. They didnt lie about it. We can only speculate what they were thinking and what thier intentions were. There were wittnesses so even if they had bad intentions they could not have gotten away with anything. Plus it is possible that they had no intentions of trying to claim she was caught legaly. If inocnet untill proven giulty then they are absolutley inocent becuase they in fact never lied about where she was hooked. You can form your own opinion.
Now as for purposly snagging the fish. It is my opinion it was an accident and here is why. the fish was caught in the morning. They had all day to get her. They knew she was the fish. They were being watched. She was staying in the bed and letting them fish for her. I would think they would not try to snag her in those conditions.
Again I only know what I read and heard and talked to people who were there. There is no way to know what they were thinking or what thier intentions were.
mattm reply :
QuoteOnce to got to the dock and weighed the fish on of the guys said he knew they snagged it and they said what are you talking about. He said I saw the fish with the jig in its back and I saw it come up in the net sideways. Then (Ibelieve it was Mike Winn) said just let it go and they did.
Sorry, but the what are you talking about, and just let it go comment shows a pretty clear intent in my book. They could of easily been hoping nobody saw, noticed or had the balls to say something. I to doubt they did it on purpose. My point is if they were totally honest up front there would be less doubters. Why give anyone an excuse. I've always thought these guys should have the record, but now learning this and the 1/2 truth about finding the fish makes me question it.
mattm reply :
QuotePosted by: Tucson Posted on: Today at 5:23pmYou ever been in a tourney and ask a local to move off your spot??? Happens everyday, and there is nothing wrong with it. Get off your high horse.
Uh-oh. I've got a real problem with this.
I have never fished a tournament so don't take this as a tournament guy trying to justify this action. There is a difference between asking and demanding. You have just as much right to the water and can choose to do as you wish. However, I have no problem with someone asking me this. If I was on a large lake that I fished often I would in most circumstances give up the spot. They are fishing for money and I know the lake so should have other spots. Plus, I will be back next week most likely.
However, if I'm on a lake I rarely fish. I'm going to sit there and enjoy my time on this lake I rarely get a shot at. The tournament angler needs to be prepared to accept either answer graciously.
WRB reply :
note to would be record chasers; trap hook rigged lures are not legal for IGFA records. A trap is a hook added to a lure that isn't designed to have additional hooks.
It is nearly impossible to hook any bass in the top of the back with a standard jig, unless the jig was trap hook rigged.
WRB
rippin_lips reply :
This thread is defiantly an interesting read. As with any sporting achievement, there are always going to be questions surrounding a record. Just look at Barry Bonds and the whole steroid situation. In all, I think it is amazing how much time and effort these guys put into catching this one fish.
I also just ordered the book Sowbelly, it looks like a very interesting read during winter.
paul. reply :
a couple of questions for thought:
do ya'll think that with all the scrutiny there will ever be a bulletproof, airtight certification of a world record bass? this record seems to have become almost sacred. will perry's mark stand forever?
this record and more specifically the guys who chase it seem to polarize people in their opinions. either they are adored almost to the point of worship (i understand mike long has a cult following in japan) or they are hated, ridiculed, and distrusted. when it's all said and done, how do y'all think history will judge the man who finally breaks perry's mark?
the rewards that will come with this record will be nice. but when it comes right down to it do y'all think that anyone who is seriously chasing the fish is doing it for any reason other than just to be the one who caught it? i mean these guys have achieved almost celebrity or rock star status. but it comes with a price. all the secrecy they have to maintain inevitably leads people to believe they are cheating or lying somehow. otherwise why wouldn't there be pictures? if there are pictures, why don't they show up until months or years later? why are the backgrounds altered? why can't they "prove" any of the things they've supposedly done? these are only a few of the questions these guys have to deal with on a regular basis i'm sure. i can't see another reason in the world (other than monetary perhaps) that someone would want to chase this record. it would have to be simply because they wanna be the guy who catches it.
Muddy reply :
Hey Paul it is just another part of a wide ranging spot. Bass fishing ain't so simple anymore for some
I fish to have simple enjoyment.
Manipulating headlines, trying to get people who are already on a spot off it, trying to cash in with a Lloyds Of London (Gambling) Policy, is a bit over the edge for me, not for the Trophy Hunters
Claiming a World Record Bass, not on the list is stretching things a bit.
And saying it was broken more than once, but not recorded, again it leaves me uncomfortable. If is does make the list then I will apologize, until then I just ain't feelin it,
Also: These guys can chase those trophies BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE. Look you can catch a Stripped Bass in a lot of impoundments, but the big ladies are caught in Oceans and Rivers from Maryland < North. THEY LIVE There, in order to catch a giant they have to be there in the first place. Cali therefore holds the edge in the chase for the next record , because that is where the bigguns live.
There are more fish over 10 lbs in Texas on The Fork alone than my whole state.
Mattlures reply :
Muddy.....Yep you are correct sir. I consider myself a very good deer hunter. However we only have small bucks where I live I will never be in any record books.
Paul You sir are also corect. For myself, I want to be the guy who catches it. Its not about the money. I dont think anybody would just hand over money because you catch the record. You would have to earn it by doing seminars and talking at shows ect. I wouldnt do that. I dont like being in the spotlight. I might do some interviews and maybe do some adds but that would be it. I dont think I would make much money off of it. For me its the hunt, the chase and wanting to be the guy who caught the biggest bass. I absolutley believ the record can and will be broken and certified. I think the IGFA wants the record to be broken(good for buisiness) It will just take it happening legitimatley. If Duclos would have killed his fish he would be the record holder. If Mike Long or John Kerr was on Dottie that morining I belive they would have broken the record. I also would have liked my chances.
WRB You are correct sir. The IGFA has several rules about aditional hooks. I bleive you can have a single trap hook on the back of a jig as long as it does not extend past the skirt. I have several special bed baits rigged to give the best chance at landing a giant bass. However I keep one bait on hand that I know will be IGFA aproved.
You bring up an interesting piont though. The spirit of that rule is to prevent lures being used to snagg fish. That is why all trebles must be free swinging. I wonder what would happen if somebody caught the WR on a swimbait with an imbeded hook. On the surface the catch would not be allowed but if it came down to that I wonder if the IGFA would budge? I think they would.
Muddy reply :
Hey Mat can you help me out here; What is an imbeded hook?
If any one breaks it I hope it's you or Fourbizzle 8-)
Mattlures reply :
An imbeded hook means that one hook of a treble hook is pushed into the plastic body while the other two hooks of the treble are exposed. This makes the hook less visable and more weedless. The IGFA states that all treble hooks must be free swinging
Muddy reply :
Thanks.
5bass reply :
QuoteIf Mike Long or John Kerr was on Dottie that morining I belive they would have broken the record.
Matt, now that you mention it, I wonder why Long and Kerr were not there? They obviously knew that Dottie was in there and in spawning mode.
NYfishwow reply :
Jed Dickerson and his two compadres on his show kind of goofy in my opinion for a bass fisherman to use a scuba diver and UV... come on! the dude doesn't need all crap. show is boring in my opinion.
Mattlures reply :
Its not a matter of knowing she was in there. We all knew she was in there. Those guys just worked harder then anybody else for their shot at her. They were there everysingle day during the spawning months. can you imagin that? It cost about $30 to rent a boat plus your daily permit. They were the first ones at the lake every morning Also about a week before Dottie was caught at 25.1 Mike caught one from the same lake at 21.5. He never reported it because he knew that was not the one he was after. He also said a scale sample showed his fish was older then Dottie. Mike also took a scale sample when he caught Dottie and I belive she was around 10 years old at 20lbs 12 oz
Nat Geo asked Mike to use his picture of him and Dottie for this show but he didnt want to be in it.
5bass reply :
QuoteIts not a matter of knowing she was in there. We all knew she was in there. Those guys just worked harder then anybody else for their shot at her. They were there everysingle day during the spawning months.
Thats what I'm saying....why werent Long and Kerr the first ones in line at the park each day? Or at least on the lake somewhere. Not bashing, just wondering why they wouldn't make the same effort as Jed & Co.
fourbizz reply :
QuoteQuoteIts not a matter of knowing she was in there. We all knew she was in there. Those guys just worked harder then anybody else for their shot at her. They were there everysingle day during the spawning months.Thats what I'm saying....why werent Long and Kerr the first ones in line at the park each day? Or at least on the lake somewhere. Not bashing, just wondering why they wouldn't make the same effort as Jed & Co.
Because they have real jobs and a functional family life ;D
WRB reply :
Matt, adding a trap or stinger hook to ant lure that is not designed specifically for that purpose is illegal in accordance with IGFA rules.
Bass jigs do not come with a stinger hook, some walleye jigs do.
Swimbaits can have an optional stinger hook hanger, most don't. My interpretation is you can add an imbedded stinger attached with a line or wire; if you attach it to a hanger manufacturered for adding additional hooks. You can't add a stinger attached to another hook or hook eye. Several trophy bass fisherman have modified swimbaits that are illegal I.A.W. the IGFA rules.
There is no excuse for trap hooking a jig, or fishing with a treble hook in a bed.
Lake Fork is past it'e prime, no bass over 15 lbs in 10 years.
WRB
Triton_Mike reply :
QuoteHey Paul man i like your way of thinking.Did you read the book Sowbelly?
If you look at my first post when i said "The Game"
thats exactly how i look at it.It just wasn't about
Dottie.It was a big Mental, physical (meaning two
to three hours of sleep a nite) and political game.
You know, we just talk about three or four day's of their
life.But think of how much time they spent out there?
800+days for one fish. WOW
The book sowbelly is a joke. I know Mike Long threw Burke out of the boat when they fished together as all he was interested in was dirt. If you want a good book get Bill Murphy's book.
Mike
Triton_Mike reply :
BTW, If you want a better video quality of the 25.1 fish I saved this link that was made about her shortly after Dottie died.
http://mfile.akamai.com/12922/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2008/0511/16227749.200k.asx
Mattlures reply :
five.bass.limit They knew she was in the lake. They probably didnt know she was up spawning. Kyle had found her the day before. I am sure that the guys who were at the lake that day didnt go home and tell everybody. They kept it quiet in hopes that they would be the first to get their the next morning.
Plus Bizz is correct. Both Mike and John have wifes kids and Jobs. Mike runs a construction Co and John is a manager at a grociery store. They could not be at the lake every day like Jed and Mac could.
However I am sure if they knew she was up they probably would have made an effort.
The spawning season can last 3-4 months on a lake Even though you know she will come up you dont know when, plus you dont know is sha already did and you never know for sure if she is still alive. Prety much the only way to give yourself the best shot was to be the first one at the lake EVERY SINGLE DAY. That to me is not how I wanted to live nore could I afford it. I picked a few prime days each month and drove up there to look for her. I obviously never found her but I did find others and caught big fish. I also lost a monster while throwing a big swimbait that I will never know how big it realy was.
Catt reply :
WRB for your information
ShareLunker Archives Lake Fork
02/28/1999 Flo O'Brain 16.63
04/04/1999 Terry Dale Garner 15.17
03/22/2002 Jim Harrell 16.12
03/22/2002 Johnny Six 15.65
02/21/2006 Billy Pfeil 15.5
03/10/2007 Michael Gray 15.32
I wouldn't call it past its prime when you can't determine if it's the lake, the anglers, or the bass. At 27,300 acres its a little harder location 1% of the bass population than it would be in a 70 acre pond.
paul great observation on Trophy Hunters while I have never been around true trophy bass hunters I have been around some amazing Deer, Bear, Duck/Geese, Elk, & Alligator hunters. To be a trophy hunter after any species you must be willing to spend an above average amount of time in the field because becoming a successful trophy hunter can not taught in a class room. I don't think it can be taught at all; think it's something you're born with, a second sense if you will.
Boogey Man reply :
I have a question but it's kinda off track. Are the trout stocked in these lakes for trout fishing or primarily to feed these giant bass? Or both?
Jaheff reply :
Crankenstein,
Trout was stocked in So. Cal for recreational purposes.
It was later they thought something was wrong with the
the bass in the lakes because they were getting fat.Im sure
it didn't take long for them to figure out the bass were eating
the trout.
During trout season, on hodges the trout anglers out number the bass anglers 8/1
Muddy reply :
Hey Jaheff I have noticed a similar correlation between the intake of large quantities of home made Ravioli and all my fat uncles!
Jaheff reply :
I meant to say Dixon not hodges.Hodges has
no trout but has a Bass on the top 20 list.
5bass reply :
Quotefive.bass.limit They knew she was in the lake. They probably didnt know she was up spawning. Kyle had found her the day before. I am sure that the guys who were at the lake that day didnt go home and tell everybody. They kept it quiet in hopes that they would be the first to get their the next morning.Plus Bizz is correct. Both Mike and John have wifes kids and Jobs. Mike runs a construction Co and John is a manager at a grociery store. They could not be at the lake every day like Jed and Mac could.
However I am sure if they knew she was up they probably would have made an effort.
The spawning season can last 3-4 months on a lake Even though you know she will come up you dont know when, plus you dont know is sha already did and you never know for sure if she is still alive. Prety much the only way to give yourself the best shot was to be the first one at the lake EVERY SINGLE DAY. That to me is not how I wanted to live nore could I afford it. I picked a few prime days each month and drove up there to look for her. I obviously never found her but I did find others and caught big fish. I also lost a monster while throwing a big swimbait that I will never know how big it realy was.
Thats what I was looking for. I thought Long and Kerr had abandoned all else and just went around fishing for the WR all the time, stopping to win a tournament here and there.
Muddy reply :
This thread, touching many edgy topics has been one of the best give and takes here in a long while. I have learned much and i just want to thank all who have participated,GREAT THREAD FELLAS>
5bass reply :
QuoteThis thread, touching many edgy topics has been one of the best give and takes here in a long while. I have learned much and i just want to thank all who have participated,GREAT THREAD FELLAS>
I agree.
Jaheff reply :
In my closing....
I tried to give a perspective of a trout turned bass angler at dixon.
I would have one pole out for trout and drop shot for bass most of the
time with my bass rig.( that right there on the political side of it, would be scrutinized if i accidentally hooked the big one.Was he using trout as
bait?)I fished Dixon 40-45 times a year. Most of that was after work for a few hours.
There is only four things I can draw from for my conclusions of this whole thing.
1. Meeting Jed a couple times
2.seeing the game being played with my own two eyes.(In the book,They touch a little bit on it,And Matt knows what I'm talking about.)
3.What I have read about.
4.Dock talk
I will touch on number four.Dottie to us stupid dock anglers was known
as the million dollar fish.Why, I have no idea? Not Dottie.The times I
was there,I have only had one conversation like we are having here.It just was not talked about.If you went to Dixon on any given day you would not know there was the world record in that lake.It was just another lake, on just another day.When Jed would go by The dock in his boat he was just another fisherman to everyone on the dock.
Ok, I'm rambling on and don't know where to End, but I hope you understand a little bit. This is just a lousy bass fisherman's perspective, but
I'm getting better thanks to all you guy's at BR....
paul. reply :
i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that texas could produce a world record. texas certainly seems to try harder than anyone else to have a quality fishery for trophy bass. it still amazes me that the big bass production we've seen in cali has been purely by accident through the decision to stock trout many years ago.
could trout survive in texas waters well enough to become a viable trophy bass food source? or could they survive at all in texas? trout are cold water fish and texas is awfully hot. but i don't know. i'm asking. texas has seemed to place a lot of emphasis on the stocking of fish with quality genetics, but that seems to be only a part of the equation. the key seems to be in stocking adequate food for them munch on. i guess what i'm asking is whether it's a quality or quantity issue with the forage in texas. is an 8 inch trout really that much better of a food source than an 8 inch shad or and 8 inch bluegill? are trout easier for the bass to catch? these are things i've always wondered.
i've also wondered if texas has any plans to cut back or alter the tournament fishing there. a few more big fish kills and it will set things back big time in some of the better lakes over there. i can't imagine they would change anything though because tournaments seem to be big business over there.
Boogey Man reply :
QuoteCrankenstein,Trout was stocked in So. Cal for recreational purposes.
It was later they thought something was wrong with the
the bass in the lakes because they were getting fat.Im sure
it didn't take long for them to figure out the bass were eating
the trout.
During trout season, on hodges the trout anglers out number the bass anglers 8/1
Thanks, that's something I've always been curious about.
WRB reply :
QuoteWRB for your informationShareLunker Archives Lake Fork
02/28/1999 Flo O'Brain 16.63
04/04/1999 Terry Dale Garner 15.17
03/22/2002 Jim Harrell 16.12
03/22/2002 Johnny Six 15.65
02/21/2006 Billy Pfeil 15.5
03/10/2007 Michael Gray 15.32
I wouldn't call it past its prime when you can't determine if it's the lake, the anglers, or the bass. At 27,300 acres its a little harder location 1% of the bass population than it would be in a 70 acre pond.
paul great observation on Trophy Hunters while I have never been around true trophy bass hunters I have been around some amazing Deer, Bear, Duck/Geese, Elk, & Alligator hunters. To be a trophy hunter after any species you must be willing to spend an above average amount of time in the field because becoming a successful trophy hunter can not taught in a class room. I don't think it can be taught at all; think it's something you're born with, a second sense if you will.
From the above stats I would agree that Fork is still a potentail giant bass fishery and may be able to break the Texas state record someday. Texas has several lakes that are producing similar size bass. The California delta has several hundred miles of fishable water with giant bass, a few 18+ lbs size bass have been caught there. Northern CA is producing some giants; 17 to 18 lb bass in there larger reservoirs. The 1% bass population is more like .0001% or less, giant bass are extremely rare fish and difficult to catch 10 months of the year.
WRB
Catt reply :
One of the key problems in regards to the food source in Texas Lakes is the huge amounts of available cover that the food source can hide in.
I was told by TPWD biologist that when selecting an area to release fingerlings for stocking purposes they would select area with vast amount of thick cover because it improved the survivability rate. The benefits from this was two fold; one the survivability rate of the bass and second was the bass would quickly become accustom to hunting prey in this environment.
The next key problem for Texas Lake lies in their shear size with Fork being relatively small when compared to other Lunker lakes in the state. Now if those 0001% or less numbers of trophy bass are that difficult to find in tiny Cali lakes how much harder will in be in lakes of this size with vast amount of extremely dense cover.
Amistad Reservoir: 64,900 acres
Falcon Reservoir: 83,654 acres
Fork: 27,300 acres
Sam Rayburn Reservoir: 114,500 acres
Toledo Bend Reservoir: 181,600 acres
Mattlures reply :
I have posted this 100 times but I will do it again. The biggest difference between Cali and everywhere else is we let our giants go so they become word class fish. This story about Dottie is the ultimate example of how that works. Mike caught her at 20 12 and released her. Do you think sh would have beeen released in TX or FL if sombody caught a 20lber there. Nope she would have been kept. Not only did Mike release her but then Jed released her at 21 11 and look what hapened......She grew to 25lbs. This is the biggest difference in Cali and the other possible staes. Untill they release all thier giant bass they will probably never produce a 20lber. This type of thing is common place out here in Cali. I honestly dont think a single person has asked me if I released my 17 lber. You know why? becuase they dont have to ask. Its a given that she went back. Its the same thing with all the trophy hunters. Do you think Mike keeps his fish? Of course not. Ok now answer this. If I 15-20lb bass was caught in Tx or Fl what are the chances of the angler just taking pics weighing her and putting her back?Probably extremely low. Its going to the SAL program or on a wall. TX cant get out of its own way. Thier motto should be "lets grow them big but take them out before they get too big"
flechero reply :
QuoteAt the end of spawning season, the ShareLunker will be returned to the angler for live release, or the angler may donate it permanently to the program
I don't know what the current trend is but the majority of them used to get released back to the lake they came from.
Mattlures reply :
we have discussed this many times. They dont all live. They dont all get put back. When your talking about the smallest percentage of the fish population and lose a percentage of that it has a huge impact on the very upper end class of bass. Think about it, in Tx an 16 lb bass is probably 1 in a million. If 3 of these are turned in each year and 1 dies and one is kept at the SAL program then only one is released. now its a 1 in 3 million fish. The SAL program is great for improving genetics but I am sure TX has all the genetics it needs by now. The SAL is is the worst thing for producing world class fish.
tallydude reply :
I don't know about TX, but I agree with Matt in regard to Florida. I've been shocked by the amount of fishermen keeping their trophy fish here in north Florida. South Florida's fishermen are much more C&R in my opinion, but if you listen to guys like Doug Hannon, the big fish in this state will come from north of Okeechobee.
Just recently Olebiker reported on a guide- a guide!- keeping a 14lb fish out of Talquin. If you want to break records, it's bad policy. But if you want to be an idiot and punish the fishery for its success, go ahead.
flechero reply :
I don't doubt that some bass that TPWD accepts die... but to assume there is no immediate or delayed mortality amongst CA bass released would be crazy.
None of us can say with certainty what the percentages are, but I think that the sharelunker program has good success... or else the program would have a black eye.
KU_Bassmaster. reply :
Last time Matt posted about the Share-a-lunker program it got me thinking. That was really the first thing I had ever read opposing the program and I think I agree with him more and more to a degree. I think the program has been GREAT for producing "trophy" bass, but what has it really done for "world class" bass.
I will be the first to say I am no expert in genetics, lake management, etc, but IMO the current program has achieved it's objective. Maybe some modifications need to be made ...... cap the numbers donated per year, cap the number per lake, create a "slot limit" for donations, maybe run the program every 2-5 years ..... who knows.
BTW - This has been a very entertaining, informational and eye opening thread.
Mattlures reply :
flechero of course there will be some delayed mortalty, but for the most part it is a verry small group of guys who consistantly catch these big fish. These same guys are the ones who rarley overhandle the fish. They catch them take some pictures and release them. Most are not even brought back to the ranger. The ones that are are let go right afterwards. They are not held waiting for SAL to pick them up. Dottie was a rare instance where the guys had to wait for the F&G but even then sh was put on a long stringer and put in deeper water while they waited, plus she was at world record weight. It is not by accident that these huge fish are caught more then once. I dont have the answer concerning the SAL program. I think its a cool program, I would love to have my name submitted in there a bunch of times and have a room full of replica mounts but the evidence shows its not working if the goal is 20lb bass. It seems to be working great for 10+lbers though.
Most bass fisherman have a warped sence of conservation when it comes to catch and releas. they let all the little ones go and they keep a fish of a lifetime. This is absolutley the worst thing you can do to a lake if your wanting to grow big bass. You should keep the little ones and increase the food supply and let go ALL of the big bass. its pretty simple but soo many bass fisherman do the exact opposite >
Catt reply :
I understand your point Matt and it's a point well taken but the Share-A-Lunker program also spawns those big bass in captivity and then they release that gene pool into numerous lakes. This greatly improves the gene pool in every body of water where they are released since there is no need to import Florida bass for stocking programs. The percentage of anglers who actually ask for their bass back is extremely low leaving the care of the bass in total control of TWPD who do an outstanding job. The Share-A-Lunker program will take longer to grow bass in the 20# plus range but instead of having a small portion of bass in this range you will have a larger population in a Varity of lakes.
You Cali boys can hold the record for now
Sin_City702 reply :
They found a 25 pounder lake Casitas in CA...guy foul hooked it so it didn't count... talk about intelligence huh?
flechero reply :
Matt,
I don't disagree with you, I was only pointing out that many of the SAL's do get released... just not until after they have spawned in captivity.
And obviously, it hasn't produced any 20 lb fish yet, but then again, we didn't catch any 20's in the pre-SAL years either. To get a few giant fish, the statistics say we need a great many "big" fish... the SAL program is certainly helping us move that direction.
For any flaws the program has, it's a lot better than no program, IMO.
WRB reply :
When you step back and look at giant bass, Florida bass to be specific, one factor comes into play; these bass are geneically wired to eat large bait fish; golden shiners.
Planted rainbow trout are very similar to golden shiners and where legal, golden shiners are excellent giant bass bait fish. The ideal bait for these bass is long and slender; like both trout and golden shiners. Threadfin shad are high protein bait fish, it takes sereval shad to equal one larger bait fish. Crappie are a little easier for bass to eat, bluegill are a lot more difficult. Fresh water smelt or hitch are good giant bass prey fish and one reason the CA delta and NorCal lakes have developed good giant bass populations.
Prey must be both plantiful and accessible year around to the bass to attain giant growth potential. The bass must also have a safe sancturary to retreat to and avoid angler pressure. The giant bass are extremely vulnerable to catch and keep from weekend anglers, the primary factor to boom and bust giant bass cycles. The population reaches a point where they are targeted relentlessly and population crashes. The high motality rate for giant bass occurs because of excessive handling; pictures are taken and the bass is kept in a livewell too long before being released, that is simply human nature.
It's been over 15 year since I have put a giant bass in a livewell or haul one back to the marina to offically weigh. However it's been that long since I caught my last PB, otherwise I would be transporting the bass back to the marina like everyone else.
WRB
Jaheff reply :
So Matt,
What is your take on DVL? I know it was probably
the most advanced fishery built to date.The growth
rates were unbelievable.
Where does it stand as a record bass lake?
WRB say's no cause of striper.Whats your take?
WRB reply :
CA used to have opening day for trout May 1st and bass June 1st, about 50 years ago. Today we have year around bass fishing. Since I grew up not bed fishing and thought that bed fishing wasn't ethical, I don't bed fish. It's a legal practice within the regulations, good sportsmanship, that is an issue each individual must make.
WRB
roadwarrior reply :
** Moderator Note **
Let's stay "generally" on topic. This isn't about the ethics of bed fishing
or how much "fishing seasons" suck.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
Mattlures reply :
i agree with WRB that striper will prevent DVL from being the giant fish factory that it could be. However this will take some time and I think that the first few year classes of bass have a chance at reaching 20+lbs but because of the stripers there will be a small window of time before the stripers keep the top end weight down
Jaheff reply :
Thanks Matt,
DVL took some of the fish that was in hodges-jerks
I have had some of my best fishing times at hodges.
DVL is my dream lake tho-only been there twice.
5bass reply :
QuoteFor any flaws the program has, it's a lot better than no program.
Keith, if you dont mind, I'm going to forward this quote to the Virginia Game Dept., they desperately need some guidance.
paul. reply :
just noticed there were some posts on the previous page (mine was one of 'em) that aren't there anymore. what happened? :-/
5bass reply :
Quotejust noticed there were some posts on the previous page (mine was one of 'em) that aren't there anymore. what happened? :-/
Not sure paul, I haven't seen anything that needed to be removed.
UrbanRedneck reply :
QuoteNot trying to offend anyone but here's a question I've never heard regarding Dottie; The type of fishing that was required to catch her seems extreme, even for bass fisherman. You have to line up early to get in before they shut the gates, pay your (I believe) $30 fee, focus on this one fish only and spend how many hours in pursuit of her. I realize this represents the extreme range of fishing behavior but frankly, it kinda takes the fun out of it. Maybe we need to step back a little bit for a fresh perspective on fishing. Isn't it about spending time on the water, enjoying the freedom of fishing, having fun and learning a little something on each trip?Landing that fish was a real accomplishment, one that any angler could take pride in but jeeze louise, are we putting too fine a point on it?
OK, I'm done. A handsome facsimile of this rant can be yours by calling........
Um, yeah, I dont think those guys would ever say what they were doing was actually fun. Not even almost.
Texas will never, ever come close to the world record bass in our lifetimes. But the SAL program is awesome. Could you imagine what Cali could produce if they had a similar program?
Certain types of protein are more conducive to good growth. My understanding is that trout flesh provides for the best growth rates, and for producing stored fat, when compared to species such as shad and bluegill. So without trout there is no way, IMHO, a lake can produce a WRB.
WRB reply :
QuoteThanks Matt,DVL took some of the fish that was in hodges-jerks
I have had some of my best fishing times at hodges.
DVL is my dream lake tho-only been there twice.
The initially planted FLMB in DVL will attain maxium growth becuase the bass and stripers started at the same time. Stripers are very aggressive fish that take over the outside feeding zones, the LMB must move inside. DVL doesn't have a lot of inside cover or ambush areas. The stripers dominate the trout plants and the hold over trout become big fast in DVL, too big for bass prey.
If you are targeting a giant bass at DVL, get there now!
WRB
WRB reply :
Quote** Moderator Note **Let's stay "generally" on topic. This isn't about the ethics of bed fishing
or how much "fishing seasons" suck.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
Lake Dixon is all about bed fishing and Dottie was caught off a bed every time she caught. I don't have a problem with that, it's just not for me and a few other trophy bass fisherman. Bed fishing is a major part of this topic. I will end my participation on the thread. Thanks Matt and everyone else, it's time to fish.
WRB
Muddy reply :
He has spoken again from the mountain.
It shall be written, on what ever they %#$* they write it on.
Mattlures reply :
Tilapia have almost the same nutritional value as trout. A tilapia food base could absolutley compete with a trout food base. Plus trout are only stocked for about 1/3 of the year. then the bass have to eat regular food. A lake that had year round Tilapia has a better food source then 4 months of trout. If Mexico has produced big fish but the general theory is that that they groy to fast and burn out. If this is true then a Tx lake that was managed for the sole purpose of growing worl class fish could produce a 20lb bass
Muddy reply :
Hey Matt: are they saying that the main reason Texas Lakes can't produce a 20+ fish is because to many fish over 15 are taken or killed?
I am asking this because I fished there and it is huge. I looked up some of the lakes you fellas have talked about many of them are the same size if not smaller than Mauch Chunk, my home lake.
I would think that the pressure on big bass would be less on the big Texas Lakes because there should be more bigger fish. I am getting confused by this part of the discussion.
I am interested in this because
1. I want to get a 8+ out of the Chunk this year
2. Me and Bruce have found 2 , highly unpressured ponds , with big fish and I would love my first DD
Dominick
Mattlures reply :
Muddy they are not saying it, I am. The size of the lake is the least important factor as long as its big enough.
Its actualy not that complicated. For a bass to reach its potential it needs...In this order
#1 Genetics
#2 inviornment It needs the right climate. It needs no competition from stripes or spots. It needs the right food sources in abundance
#3 It needs to be able to live long enough to get that big.
#4 Proper management. One of the reasons that the small lakes in So Cal produce big bass is they do not have large populations of bass. the spawns are not overly succesful and the populations are lower then our bigger lakes which helps big bass get bigger. We have bigger lakes that when they were young lakes produced giant fish, now they dont. To many small bass competing with the big ones.
Ponds are ususaly bad for growing big bass because the bass usualy out compete thier prey and the pond becomes unballanced.
It all depends on the ballance in your ponds. I assume that your talking about big ponds that have a good balance though. If you catch a lot of skinny fish there is a good chance that the lake is unbalanced and the big bass are on the decline.What you want is lower numbers of bass but you want them fat and healthy, thats where you should find some bigger fish. Dont go by lake records. Evey lake out here has a record of over 18lbs but many of them havent produced a 15lber in over 20 years. Base your chances on recent lake history
Muddy reply :
Got it Thanks Matt. We have 2 large ponds, one on private property( with permission) one is part of a mine reclamation project. Everyone walks past it on the way to the larger filled in stripping pit, but me and Bruce have caught some big guns there and we are working on getting a small boat/inflatable to get to a huge stand of visible timber on the inaccessible side.
Mattlures reply :
One thing I forgot to mention is In our small lakes with giant bass the fishing can be brutal. The fish are smart and super preasured and hard to catch. In contrast our bigger lakes are much easier. the bigger the lake = bigger population = easier fishing. Of course that how it is out here becuase the little lakes get just as much presure as the big ones.
Jaheff reply :
Now you tell me..
Thats why I had to trout fish at the same time.
Mattlures reply :
Jaheff, Dixon aint easy!! I have never went to DVL but that would be where iwould go to catch a lot of good fish or even hodges. Dixon, Poway, Jennings, Murray, = hard but has a few monsters. Hodges, Otay, El Cap, San V, = easy but not many big fish. Otay is improving though. DVL has the best of both worlds. It hasnt produced monsters yet but it will soon and it has a lot of good fish in there
Jaheff reply :
Matt,
I don't live in Esco any longer.I'm in Arizona now.
I put over four years on Dixon, that's were I learned to bass
Fish.I would not trade my experiances of that for anything.
I could take what I learned at dixon and catch pure numbers
at DVL went there twice,Second cast first time 4.7 om an MM111.
Hodges was my favorite local lake.
You can understand Dixon open 363 days a year thats were I had to
go if I wanted to wet a line.Hodges open 7 months a year and only on
Weds and weekends.I had no choice but Dixon, most days.
Jaheff reply :
ok, that sounded a little stupid.But
who else here would not take a 4.7
their second cast on a new lake you
never fished before?
cart7t reply :
QuoteI have posted this 100 times but I will do it again. The biggest difference between Cali and everywhere else is we let our giants go so they become word class fish. This story about Dottie is the ultimate example of how that works. Mike caught her at 20 12 and released her. Do you think sh would have beeen released in TX or FL if sombody caught a 20lber there. Nope she would have been kept. Not only did Mike release her but then Jed released her at 21 11 and look what hapened......She grew to 25lbs. This is the biggest difference in Cali and the other possible staes. Untill they release all thier giant bass they will probably never produce a 20lber. This type of thing is common place out here in Cali. I honestly dont think a single person has asked me if I released my 17 lber. You know why? becuase they dont have to ask. Its a given that she went back. Its the same thing with all the trophy hunters. Do you think Mike keeps his fish? Of course not. Ok now answer this. If I 15-20lb bass was caught in Tx or Fl what are the chances of the angler just taking pics weighing her and putting her back?Probably extremely low. Its going to the SAL program or on a wall. TX cant get out of its own way. Thier motto should be "lets grow them big but take them out before they get too big"
Let's face it. The CA guys fishing are fishing for THE fish. Somebody in TX or FL is fishing for a fish.. over 10lbs, over 12, over 15. Somebody snares a 20lb bass and the world stops turning in either of those states.
I just dont' think you guys, 4biz, you matt or fish chris really understand just how BIG those fish you guys are holding up in those pictures are to about 98% of all the fishermen in this country. A fish in the 14-15lb class anywhere south of the Mason Dixon line would be the same to us as a 20lb plus fish to you guys. I find it completely normal that somebody in someplace other than CA would take a 20lber and keep it for whatever use they saw fit.
Mattlures reply :
Yes it would be normal and no suprise. My main point is that in order for a fish to reach its 100% potental it cant be kept at 95%. If sombody in TX or FL catches and keeps a 15lber they removed a potential 20lber. Verry few bass anywhare have all right stuff to get to 15lbs. and even fewer of those 15's can get to 20. I belive if Texas and Fl released all or even most of their teen bass we would see some hight teen fish coming out of those states.
Trust me I realize how blessed we are with the size of these bass. I also hunt deer and we have some of the smallest deer in the country. I see those pics of monster bucks and I think thats exactly what those bass fisherman from other areas feel when they see the giant bass from here.
My lifetime bass fishing goal is 20lber. I dont know if the WR is a realistic goal but I feel there is a small chance that I may someday get my 20
Catt reply :
matt you are aware that no every 13 + bass in the state of Texas are entered into the ShareLunker program? As matter of fact it is not even a high percentage
I personally know of 3 last year from Toledo Bend & 2 from Rayburn all were close to or over 15# & yet little to no one heard of these bass. Just like y'all out in California there are plenty of Trophy Hunters here in the south we just don't get all the media coverage y'all get.
When bass in the 20# class start appearing from Texas remember y'all were warned so don't act all surprised
roadwarrior reply :
We'll see...
I hear this all the time about Lake Erie and St. Clair smallmouth.
The locals think they will produce the next World Record. Their
fisheries are the best in the world for numbers and many big
brown fish. However, until the region pops out a few 10s, there
is -0- chance of a 12.
Florida and Texas face a similar hurdle. Until these states produce
a few 20s, talk of a World Record is premature. Big, even giant bass,
are one thing, THE biggest bass is quite another.
8-)
hawgchaser reply :
A 25 pound bass is like bootfoot here in Ar. I have landed several 10lbs+ bass and truly can't comprehend a 20lber. Personally I like the current record and hope if the record is broken, it brings a great story.
FishinDaddy reply :
I don't know about Texas, but Florida's chances are slim. We have the right conditions but we have a problem. Thousands and thousands of anglers coming to Fl every winter to sit and watch bobbers over shiners and catch the 10 plus fish and take them back home to where ever. We will never have a shot at the record until regulations stop this from happening.
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteI have landed several 10lbs+ bass and truly can't comprehend a 20lber.
Don't get me wrong, a record is a record and is certainly an honor, but in all reality,...it's only a 20+ lb fish. I would bet in your part of the country a 40lb cat isn't rare. It's all relative, not too hard to comprehend at all here in Ocean country where a rigged bait can weigh as much as 5-6 lbs.
SudoomFisher reply :
What kind of fight to these giant bass give when you hook them?
Mattlures reply :
A giant bass fight is like a vintage Mike Tyson fight. but then they quickly tire after 3 rounds comparred to other fish who fight all 15 rounds hard. A giant bass fights smart, they do everything they can to get off. They dont just pull and run. If you give them drag then there is a good chance you will loose them. If you let them jump there is a good chance they will throw your bait. Stick them hard, fight them hard , atempt to controll the fight, and end it as soon as possible. Get to agresive and she will break you off, get to carefull and she will hang you or throw you. It is the most exciting 2-3 minutes in fishing. I also fish big saltware and its cool but its not the same. You never know your going to land a huge bass untill its actualy landed. A big saltwer fish is different, You know you going to win. it may be much mor phyisical and a lot longer but the outcome is generaly predictable.
Bass_Akwards reply :
If the next WR is caught by bed fishing while the fish is near or about to spawn, will it be chaos due to the differing opinions about fishing for spawning fish?
Isn't that how Dotty was caught once or twice before?
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteIf the next WR is caught by bed fishing while the fish is near or about to spawn, will it be chaos due to the differing opinions about fishing for spawning fish?Isn't that how Dotty was caught once or twice before?
Glenn just closed a thread on bed fishing. Any reference to this
"controversy" will be deleted.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
Bass_Akwards reply :
Doh! Sorry!
flechero reply :
QuoteQuoteIf the next WR is caught by bed fishing while the fish is near or about to spawn, will it be chaos due to the differing opinions about fishing for spawning fish?Isn't that how Dotty was caught once or twice before?
Glenn just closed a thread on bed fishing. Any reference to this
"controversy" will be deleted.
-Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior
Global Moderator
Not to mention you had to lock your own thread a little while ago! ;D Careful folks, they are in the locking mood! 
The_Natural reply :
As far as the Trout vs. Tilapia, it is my understanding that trout are significantly slower and easier for bass to catch. This why bass are able to gorge themselves on them.
As far as fighting a big fish, I've never fought a 'teener, but my biggest fish have all come up rather easily...only to see the boat and make a massive surge towards the bottom.
405z06 reply :
QuoteI don't know about Texas, but Florida's chances are slim. We have the right conditions but we have a problem. Thousands and thousands of anglers coming to Fl every winter to sit and watch bobbers over shiners and catch the 10 plus fish and take them back home to where ever. We will never have a shot at the record until regulations stop this from happening.
I'm no expert by any stretch, but I don't think that is the main barrier to 20lbs Florida fish. How many thousands of private lakes are there in Fla, or golf course lakes, or pits, that receive almost no fishing pressure (and literally no shiner fishing). They are everywhere. Even places like stick marsh are strictly catch and release only. My guess is that it is a mixture of climate and food sources.
Blake R. reply :
I believe our main problem here in Florida is simply forage and cover.
Ya'll ever actually CAUGHT a shiner? I have caught a few giant shiners while bream fishing. They go nuts... jumping, running, whatever they can do. Pretty fun on light tackle. A fish that fights like that isn't just gonna sit there and look at a bass; they know danger, and know how to evade it.
The other problem is just as significant. In case ya'll havent noticed, we have a little bit of vegetation down here. It is all too easy for a shiner, bluegill, crawfish, or whatever a bass wants to eat to slip into the jungle, never to be seen again.
I love to hunt, but if I had to chase down a deer on foot, I would starve. I would rather find a tree, climb it and wait. Bass are the same way. They don't want to chase down their food, but sometimes they have to. With our climate, and waters that dang near boil in the summer, their metabolism goes off the charts. This means they have to eat more food, more often, and don't gain much weight for their effort. That could explain the numbers of long, skinny fish.
Of course, this may not be true. But it's what I believe...
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