Should Your Guide Be Fishing? 2024
papajoe222 reply :
The reason I ask is that a neighbor returned early today from a guided trip to a lake that I fish occasionally. It was a drop-dead beautiful day and I didn't expect his return until later in the evening. Anyway, I asked why his early return as he is elderly and his wife isn't in the best of health. He replied that he got ticked off when his guide pulled up to the first spot of the day and after rigging him up and a short tutorial on the spot and technique, picked up a rod and began fishing from the back of the boat. He politely told the quide, he said, that he wasn't paying for the guide to fish and for him to retun him to the launch. Words were exchanged (I have no idea what was said), tempers flared and my neighbor refused to pay for services as, in his words: " I didn't get any service, all I got was someone that wanted to fish and rip me off for $275."
I attempted to tell him that this practice is very commonplace when attempting to find not only active fish, but a presentation that works. His reply was that I'd been snowballed on more than one occasion by that BS and no way was he buying into it. He uses a charter guide on a regular basis, but has never used one for bass fishing.
Your thoughts.
Alonerankin2 reply :
I have used a few guides in my day... Never once did I personally feel threated by my guide fishing, and a couple times they asked if I minded...
It is a non- issue for me...
flyfisher reply :
I don't think it is something that should just happen without some discussion on the matter with the client. The only guide i ever went out with was Bob Clouser on the Susky and he didn't fish at all except to get a fish on the line and hand me the rod to reel it in, i was about 8 or 9 at the time. When i was a guide flyfishing i never fished but one time when i had some clients from India who said they wanted to watch me fish while they took a break.
stk reply :
I think for bass fishing guide trips it would be beneficial for additional rods in the water until a pattern is found. I've never been on a bass fishing guide trip but I wouldn't have a problem with this either.
EmersonFish reply :
Never used a bass fishing guide, but I've always assumed they did some fishing to establish a pattern. It would be different if he got it figured out, and just kept on casting; catching a bunch of fish instead of making sure the clients got on 'em. Now with other kinds of fishing, the guide doesn't need his own rod. I wouldn't expect a striper or catfish guide to grab a rod out of a holder and catch fish when a client could get it.
In this case, maybe the guide was not a very good communicator; or maybe the client was completely irrational. In any case, it didn't work out.
Long Mike reply :
Until my guide put me on the fish, I would not at all expect him to be fishing himself. It happened to me once at Lake Fork. At about 10:00 A.M. I told him to take me back to the launch. It became obvious that he wanted me to pay for his fishing trip. I should have known better. I asked the guy at the front desk of the motel I was was staying in for a guide recommendation.
RSM789 reply :
I have never used a guide, but for me it would depend on how & where we were fishing. If it was a situation where we were targeting loner fish in isolated spots & he was in the front of the boat, then I would have a problem with it. However, if we were fishing deep water structure or for schooling fish, I would prefer he fish. We could use different lures or techniques to see which is currently working better and often multiple people fishing the same school can keep them fired up.
As I thought about this, I don't think I would ever hire a guide for LMB fishing. Part of the fun for me is figuring out where they are & how to catch them. I know enough about where to look during different times of the year and am versatile enough to figure out how to catch them once I find them. Plus I don't want someone else netting my fish, I want to grab him/her by the lip!! (the fish, not the guide). If I wanted to learn something new or was aware that I should be using a technique that I don't have a need for locally ( such as using a chatterbait in grass), then a guide would be of interest. Otherwise I would kind of feel like the 6 year old who gets handed the pole after dad set the hook.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 9/8/2014 at 9:56 AM, papajoe222 said:The reason I ask is that a neighbor returned early today from a guided trip to a lake that I fish occasionally. It was a drop-dead beautiful day and I didn't expect his return until later in the evening. Anyway, I asked why his early return as he is elderly and his wife isn't in the best of health. He replied that he got ticked off when his guide pulled up to the first spot of the day and after rigging him up and a short tutorial on the spot and technique, picked up a rod and began fishing from the back of the boat. He politely told the quide, he said, that he wasn't paying for the guide to fish and for him to retun him to the launch. Words were exchanged (I have no idea what was said), tempers flared and my neighbor refused to pay for services as, in his words: " I didn't get any service, all I got was someone that wanted to fish and rip me off for $275."
I attempted to tell him that this practice is very commonplace when attempting to find not only active fish, but a presentation that works. His reply was that I'd been snowballed on more than one occasion by that BS and no way was he buying into it. He uses a charter guide on a regular basis, but has never used one for bass fishing.
Your thoughts.
Imagine how much easier it would have been if your neighbor had discussed this issue with the guide when he booked his trip?
SirSnookalot reply :
I've been on head boats where the Captain fishes, they are selling the fish, I don't much care for that. Most guides I've been with do not fish. One guide in particular out of Ft. Pierce does fish with us, but asks first. This guy is nothing short of sensational, don't mind him fishing at all, this guy is going to teach you something.
BassinLou reply :
The only time I have gone on a guided trip, I encouraged my guide to fish. He is on his home turf, and as soon as he found a pattern, then it benefited me because it gave me an idea of the fish in that area.
Catch and Grease reply :
I would be okay with it to an extent, as long as they are doing their best to put me on fish.
frogflogger reply :
I never fished except to show a technique - frog fishing in particular, if they were rookies, I would show them the cast and retrieve then let them have at it. After that I would suggest different cadences if needed.
gulfcaptain reply :
I just want to know what kind of guide doesn't take payment before the trip starts? All that should have been worked out before leaving the ramp. If you don't want him fishing then express that before you get on the water. If he doesn't fish and you can't catch them.....don't blame the man either because you told him not to fish....YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. Then bad mouth him because you couldn't catch anything. I would have gratefully returned to the ramp as requested, dropped him off, put my boat on the trailer, wished him a safe drive home, but sorry, if there had been a contract and you are going to be bitter like that, you're not getting anything back because you are bitter and just wasted a day of my time. I want the guide to fish, I want to see what he is doing on his waters, he is out there everyday making a living, who better to see what's working then the guy that "fishes" for a living. I fished, but then I also handed most of my fish off to customers once they were hooked if conditions were tough, or just to prove a point if they weren't listening to my professional advice on how to get bit...can't catch them unless you get a bite....so to blow up right off the bat like your friend did, honestly I would have taken him back myself and given him his money before hand and since I was already there......gone fishing.
roadwarrior reply :
I want the guide fishing to find the bass and what's working, but then that's it...
After fishing with many guides for more than a decade I have only had two that
didn't work out. We still paid and tipped, but will never fish with them again. On
the otherhand, I have been fishing with Tim "Hotdawg" Curtis on the White River
since around 2001.
http://www.hotdawgguideservice.com/
The only guide that I have hired that compares with Dawg is
Captain James Ray "Cuda" Scheer.
http://cocodrieinsidecharters.com/charter-fishing.html
Smokinal reply :
My buddy and I hired a big name down on Falcon for our first guided trip of our lives. We did not think to ask about him fishing so that's our bad. But, we were both very dissapointed in the way he treated us. He would cast first, with us, on new spots we would come into and he back boated us on most occasions. We definitely felt like we paid him $400 per day (for 5 days mind you) to have him let us go fishing with him.
I learned a lot from that trip though. If I was a guide, it would be clear that the only times I would fish would be if the fishing was extremely tough that day, so I could possibly help find a pattern. Or, if the fishing was just phenomenal, I might like to catch a few. But if it's mediokre, I'd let them catch anything that would bite. In any occasion though, I would want my client taking the first 1/2 hr on a spot before I fished at all. I'm a believer that the largest and most active fish on a given spot bite first so the guide should not cast until the clients have hammered it first.
Felix77 reply :
My one and only guide experience included a veteran of the FLW Tour. He fished to try to find them. In hindsight he worked extremely hard to find the fish that day and made my experience very memorable. I guess it depends on their intent with the fishing. If they just throw you a lure and then go ahead to fish completely ignoring you then I would have a problem too.
Ratherbfishing reply :
When a guide enters a contractual agreement to take YOU fishing and to assist YOU in catching fish, their entire day should be with the thought of putting YOU on fish and then helping YOU catch them. Sometimes, particularly when the fishing isn't easy, a guide may feel compelled to fish some in order to establish a pattern and find productive cover. BUT when they do so, they need to communicate this intent/behavior with the client and even go as far as determining if this is acceptable. Personally, I don't want to pay hard earned money in order for someone ELSE to fish.
gulfcaptain reply :
Although I've never hired someone to take me bass fishing, I would expect to be on the front deck fishing with him. I would want him explaining to me where to pitch the bait etc as so my day would be great, but wouldn't mind if he was fishing as well next to me. But I'd expect to share the front of the boat and fish as a team. But then this would be communicated prior to me ever hiring them. Can't get mad at someone if you never asked the question and just expect them to read your mind.
WIGuide reply :
As a guide, I do fish and there are a few reasons that I do. First and foremost is that a lot of people who hire a guide have limited fishing experience. Yes you can tell them what to do and how they should work a bait, but a lot of times it's still really hard to tell if you're around fish. I can only do so much instructing, so I feel I need to fish to be able to figure out the pattern for the day. Secondly, some people are just better visual learners. If they watch you for a while they might have a better understanding of what you're doing or trying to accomplish. I will say though that I do only fish to establish a pattern, and once I do I'll stop with the exception of panfishing. There I fish all the time so the customer can get extra fish out of it, and also so there's an extra pole ready to go when one needs to be re-baited or gets tangled. I can just hand it to them and they can stay fishing the whole time while I take care of any problems.
I don't think a guide should just fish the whole time though, and the focus should definitely be on the clients.
alberto-1 reply :
I guess I wouldn't mind if the guide had me on fish and if he/she was teaching me something new.
geo g reply :
If I am fishing alone with a guide I would not care if he were fishing along with me. I can watch what he is doing and learn from his technique. If I am with my children I would want the guide to help with the kids. I have had several great experiences on Lake Erie with guides.
Jd_Phillips_Fishin reply :
I would't have a problem with it. Actually, I'd want him fishing so we can get a pattern faster.
FL Bass Abducter reply :
I think the guide NOT fishing and NOT helping the clients find what the best pattern/lure is, is a fantastic idea. 
I guess what the OP neighbor expected was just a boat ride/rental and let the neighbor figure it out????
Now, once the pattern/lure is established, the guide needs to BTF off, and allow the clients to do their thing and of course offer guidance IF the clients will LISTEN, which in 75% of the cases, is not going to happen. PERIOD.
CDMeyer reply :
I agree with roadwarrior
On 9/8/2014 at 9:54 PM, roadwarrior said:I want the guide fishing to find the bass and what's working, but then that's it...
After fishing with many guides for more than a decade I have only had two that
didn't work out. We still paid and tipped, but will never fish with them again. On
the otherhand, I have been fishing with Tim "Hotdawg" Curtis on the White River
since around 2001.
http://www.hotdawgguideservice.com/
The only guide that I have hired that compares with Dawg is
Captain James Ray "Cuda" Scheer.
http://cocodrieinsidecharters.com/charter-fishing.html
I totally agree I want my guide fishing in the begging to help me catch fish, sometimes that could fire a school up. Then once we get on them I would want him to stop
Tim Kelly reply :
The best way of becoming a better angler is to fish with someone better than you. Amazing how much you learn.
If you just want someone to put you on the spots, I suppose you're looking for something else though, and maybe the guide shouldn't fish. But if he doesn't fish and you're not catching he would need to have a go to make sure the fish aren't there or biting, or whether you're just rubbish at catching them!
hatrix reply :
On 9/9/2014 at 2:09 PM, Tim Kelly said:The best way of becoming a better angler is to fish with someone better than you. Amazing how much you learn.
If you just want someone to put you on the spots, I suppose you're looking for something else though, and maybe the guide shouldn't fish. But if he doesn't fish and you're not catching he would need to have a go to make sure the fish aren't there or biting, or whether you're just rubbish at catching them!
That is so true for just about anything.
I doubt I would care much if they fished. I would have a problem though if we were trolling along or something and they guy is snaking all the prime spots first. I would not be much of a fan if he was doing that. Even if it was for some kind of pattern.
SirSnookalot reply :
Both the type of boat and the target species would play a part in whether I want the guide to fish. If a guide is working a trolling motor I don't want him casting in front of me, and I don't want to share the bow. A good chance I would not get involved using guide under those conditions. When with guide in a center console boat most likely going to his/her honey holes, looking for birds, bait or busting fish, once on fish I don't mind the guide fishing. Bow or stern doesn't make a difference to me then, I don't want to be on a boat with a bimini top, gets in the way of casting. Fishing the flats a guide is going to be on the platform poling, the guide fishing doesn't enter into the equation then.
Driftb reply :
I guide Fly trips and spin trips on the Upper Delaware river for trout and smallmouth bass. I work out of a 16' Clackacraft drift boat. It has pedestal seats and leaning braces for two anglers. On a fly fishing trip I rarely fish, unless my guest(s) ask me to. I am usually way to busy rowing, tying on new rigs, instructing, netting fish, and keeping a lookout for rising fish, structure, etc. Occasionally a client will want me to pick up a rod and show them how it's done. Sometimes they dare me to prove that the fish will actually eat the fly I have them using. I kind of hate to do that because I have confidence in my flies and occasionally I cant get the fish to eat it right away and it becomes a time waster. But usually they hand me their rod and the fish eats that fly on the first cast I make, even if they have been trying to feed it to him for an hour. These guys don't pay me to humiliate them, so even though I get the satisfaction of being right, it isn't really what I want to be doing.
Smallie fishing is much the same, but the technique is much easier and less intense, so it is much more common for a client to ask me to fish. But when we pull up on a piece of big fish structure, or a pod of busting fish, I always point it out to a client and give them first crack at it. I also let them have second, third, fourth and fifth crack at it. Usually I don't have to pick up a rod to establish a pattern. I have a good idea what will work and I spend the early part of the day rigging rods, and handing them to clients to see what is going to work for them. As long as they are catching fish, I may not pick up a rod all day. Occasionally, though, If the fish are refusing topwater, I will pick up a topwater and see if I can get bit. The clients don't usually want to spend the time with the topwater until they see it is producing well. Like yesterday, there were fish on top all day, but they would only take a topwater every once in a while. then topwater wouldn't catch another fish for way too long. I tried different baits until afternoon when I threw a sammie and it got bit three casts in a row. My guest put down his jig in favor of topwater. The rest of the day they threw topwater and had a blast.
jeremyryanwebb reply :
Well....Ive never ran, or been on a bass charter but regardless of species if it is catch and release, the guide should only be fishing to find fish in open water or to demonstrate a technique and then be done with it. If fishing specific cover the client should have the all throws bc he/she is the priority in catching fish. I only help run redfish and inshore saltwater charters which is completely different. When I am polling from the platform on a charter for redfish, im all eyes and paying attention to things around me....not fishing. The only time I will throw a line in is when I am fishing with a client that has no one else on the boat with him except for me and he/she states that they want to take a couple fish home for the frying pan and we are having an incredibly slow day on bites. Still catch and release is the way to go but the ocean is different than the saltwater life cycles.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 9/12/2014 at 8:17 AM, jeremyryanwebb said:Well....Ive never ran, or been on a bass charter but regardless of species if it is catch and release, the guide should only be fishing to find fish in open water or to demonstrate a technique and then be done with it. If fishing specific cover the client should have the all throws bc he/she is the priority in catching fish. I only help run redfish and inshore saltwater charters which is completely different. When I am polling from the platform on a charter for redfish, im all eyes and paying attention to things around me....not fishing. The only time I will throw a line in is when I am fishing with a client that has no one else on the boat with him except for me and he/she states that they want to take a couple fish home for the frying pan and we are having an incredibly slow day on bites. Still catch and release is the way to go but the ocean is different than the saltwater life cycles.
Well said.
I may add that situations arise where the guide or charter captain has to be at the helm to maneuver the boat when a fish is on.
Can't say how many times when out in a private boat we get cut off on the engine or trim tabs. A guide does more than find fish, their boatsmanship comes into play quite often in landing fish.
buzzed bait reply :
I think it's fair to ask the guide up front if they are teaching you how to catch fish or if they are driving you around to hot spots to catch fish. because frankly i would have just assumed that hiring a guide was about hiring someone to put you on fish. for me, it would generally only be a scenario where i've never fished that lake before and wouldn't have a chance to fish it again so a guide would maximize my time.
lesson learned from this post though about all the questions to ask a guide before you settle on one.
Josh Smith reply :
I would absolutely expect a guide to fish if he answered the question "What works best in this lake?"
I don't use guides, and will gladly take anyone fishing if they want to learn. This lake I've been working on all year produces but it's the most picky lake I've ever seen.
My mom is a teacher, and a good portion of my family are teachers. I'd be one but for the politics. I teach a certain rifle to people; that's my main vocation. The stuff I make for that rifle is the side benefit. If a person cannot or will not be taught, I move on. If a person knows as much as I do, we exchange info.
Same with fishing. Not many can teach me about the guns I'm interested in. I'm sure there are many who can teach me about fishing.
Thing is, they have to show they know more than I do. Anyone can call himself a guide and anyone can have a resume. If the guide is not catching more and better than I am, I am likely to wonder about him.
Were I invited to fish with, say, Martin, Dance, or Houston; or even someone newer like Van Dam, I'd take it for granted they know more than me. Those first three have been pro longer than I've been alive! If you can make a living fishing, then I figure you know what you're doing.
If I were to guide a person on this lake that I've been working on, I'd probably tell him something like this: "I can show you spots where there are usually bass. I can suggest what lures to try, and show you the action if you want. I will not make any guarantees that you'll catch fish. I might say something like 'see that point? Cast onto the bank -- careful, don't get hung up! -- and work that jig down the shelf'. If you don't want to take that advice or cast several times and can't catch anything, don't get mad if I try after you give up. Meantime, I'll be fishing another spot you've already fished or trying a new one where there shouldn't be fish but might just be."
This is assuming someone new to fishing.
Similar to the gun thing, if the person demonstrates an unwillingness to learn, or an equal or superior knowledge to my own, I'll just say something like, "There's a rock shelf off that point and the bass critters in this lake like crawdaddies and bass and sunfish fry for forage."
If I hired someone to guide me, I'd appreciate a similar approach.
In other words, don't insult a customer's knowledge, but don't assume knowledge where it doesn't exist, either.
Regards,
Josh
CDobber reply :
I'm going on a muskie charter in the morning. I don't target the fish but will be excited to try, especially with help from a pro if/when I land one. I'm not a big fan of toothy critters and haven't handled many fishing solo.
I will not care one way or the other if the guide fishes tomorrow. I am not attempting to learn techniques from him or lure presentation, or I'd be watching and listening closely. If it were a bass charter (as it was originally going to be), it would be way different, though I still wouldn't be offended if he were fishing or not.....though I would be grilling him/her much more for what he is looking for depth/structure wise, presentation, specific locations he's going to (and mentally noting them to return with my pontoon), etc. Tomorrow is all about doing something different and enjoying the morning, albeit with temps 25-30 degrees below average to start. I hope to get at least one for the sake of checking yet another species off my list.
I guess it really depends on the situation and the attitude and opinions of the paying customer, and if one is in doubt prior, ask questions before booking.
flipin4bass reply :
I think this is something that should be discussed with the guide before your trip. I've used a guide when I'm fishing a large lake for the first time. It saves me a lot of time and really helps on subsequent trips I'll take to the lake in the future. The last guide I used was really helpful and not only turned me on to new baits and techniques, but also showed where a lot of good structure was located. He also showed where the hazards were located. (submerged boulders, etc.) I've learned a lot over the years by watching guides fish from the back of the boat.
Dwight Hottle reply :
Imagine the personal satisfaction when you outfish your guide from the back of the boat. Now that's a challenge.
Driftb reply :
As soon as one of my clients takes a cast, as a guide I am fishing, even if I never pick up a rod. I'll watch him fish and if he starts catching fish, it'll be a while before I take a cast. If he doesn't get bit, I'll watch him and give him some coaching. Some guys don't want to hear it though. If not, I may try the same lure to see if it's my client's technique or the lure that's lacking. If I don't get bit in five or so minutes, I try another lure until I find something that works.
If my guest catches fish right away, I'll let him fish that lure. I may pick up a lure I think will appeal to bigger fish in a while, though. If that gets attention, I'll offer it to the client.
ColdSVT reply :
I fished with the same guide many times in FL for tarpon, reds and snook. On the the red and snook trips i told him id be dissapointed if he didnt fish with me. He got a kick out of me a few times. He was also cool with me bringing my gear along ( rods/reels) ironically we both prefered the croix tidemasters with stradics lol. I laughed when he saw my rigs and then showed me five or six just like mine. Needless to say we hit off well from the first charter
On the tarpon trips it was however all about me!
missouribigbass reply :
I'd want my guide to fish. Put us on some fish and let's get some in the boat. Who cares as long as your on the water having fun.
faygo1979 reply :
My buddy and I paid a local bass pro to take us out last year and he fished the whole time.
I actually would rather than be the case. Someone can explain how to catch fish all they want. But watching and asking questions while he was pulling in fish was worth the price to be.
We still walked away with about 20 catches each for 3 hours or so.
OntarioFishingGuy reply :
As long as I am catching fish, I'll be happy. If not, it's the captains call if he wants to fish and see if he can put together a pattern, or let me keep fishing hoping that I will catch a fish. He is the expert, not me, so of he wants to fish he can go right ahead. Either way, I don't get as much enjoyment from catching a fish as I do seeing a fish. As long as there are fish being caught I'll be happy.
mjseverson24 reply :
If I hired a bass guide ( which i would if i went south to a large reservoir for the first time) I would want him to fish hard and catch as many fish as he can and show me the basic lay outs and patterns of that specific system. I dont care about catching a million fish that day, what I would want is just a basic idea of what the fish are doing and why, also i would want to know why the guide chose the spots and what is his philosophy is on how to best present the bait to the fish. you can either spend 400-500 dollars for one day of great fishing with lots of memories and fun, or you can learn something and make that 400 dollars an investment that will help you to catch fish in the future. i think it is ridiculous that the neighbor got mad that the guide was fishing, first off the guide is used to controlling the boat based on how his lure is positioned in and around structure, without a rod in hand how will he be able to keep the boat positioned properly, and or keep it at the right speed without going to fast. also it help keep you motivated if you know you are on and around fish as the guide is catching them...
Mitch
Scott F reply :
The guide's job is to do everything he can to make sure each guest has a good time. If that means he doesn't fish at all with some, or fishes all the time with others, whatever it takes. If I'm paying, the guide doesn't touch a rod. When you are paying, he should do what you want.
Basswhippa reply :
Answer is ... it depends.
There is a classic guide fishing post by a young man. He had come from up north and had a baseball injury. His present for all he had endured was a guided trip to Guntersville Lake.
He got to watch Alex Davis "Spinnerbait Kid" catch an 8 pounder. Ha. He had a great attitude. He said he never had seen one that big before and that was kind of neat. That said, I'm sure he would have rather caught it. I never could tell if he actually had the skills to catch the fish.
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