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Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water? 2024


fishing user avatarGeebo reply : 

Hi there....

 

So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep.  The last couple of years I switched up colors and started using junebug, PB&J and black/blue and out fished all of my friends.  It seems counter intuitive that dark colors would work so well on a clear lake regardless if it's sunny or overcast. I am hoping to gain some insights on why this is happening and any recommendations on other lures/colors to use.

 

Thank you!


fishing user avatarWayne P. reply : 

The fish don't care what the color is, you do.


fishing user avatarS. Sass reply : 

Pretty much my take is the same. I think you have more or less 3 or 4 color spectrums that make a difference to the fish. Most of the super pretty is for humans to entice you to buy or satisfy a personal reason like as a hobby. 

 

Every lake I've been on seems the fish kind of have their own likes and dislikes. If you found dark colors work great nonstop then you did good figuring that out. 


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

"Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?"

 

Let me guess: Because it looked like something to eat?   :headscratch:

 

Roger


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

    Junebug, PB&J and black/blue are  hugely popular colors because bass fisherman have caught lots of fish on them , not because they are suppose to use them or not .


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Where I fish in clear deep structured lakes color can be the critical factor and most of our lakes change preference seasonally.

Several reasons for this, the depth the bass are at, the preferred prey at the time and angler preference. 

If the bass feeding heavily on crawdads darker colors work good, Shad lighter transparent colors work good. During the spawn color makes no difference. Pre spawn darker colors that represent crawdads work good. Post spawn Shad and greens works good. Summer everything can work, darker colors at night. Fall is similar to post spawn.

I am a fan of purple or blue neon as accent colors year around because they have worked for me for decades. I also believe on color contrasts; lighter agianst darker.

Angler preference is a big factor on smaller very high fishing pressure lakes where I fish.

if everyone has been using a specific color like green pumpkin with red flakes I usually try to avoid the most popular color. There are only so many catchable bass on any specific lure and/or color combination before it becomes ineffective. I feel that making a change that is different from the 90% of anglers using a specific color increases my odds if that color has reached it's saturation point.

Tom


fishing user avatarOklahoma Mike reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 3:01 AM, WRB said:

I also believe on color contrasts; lighter agianst darker.

 

 

Tom, would you mind expanding on this a little please? Are you talking about bait color versus water clarity? Or do you mean integrating contrasting colors within the bait, such as a brown jig with a blue trailer, a jig with contrasting colors within the skirt, etc?

 

Thanks in advance.


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

If you look at soft plastic worms for example contrast is darker top half agianst light bottom half called laminated injection molded worms. It's easier to have contrasted colors in hand or automated poured worms and for this reason I prefer hand pours because of multiple contrasting shades top to bottom. Example dark purple top, blue neon center blood line and pearl white belly with each layer having different colors of flakes that equal lots of color contrast.

The only one color soft plastic I use is black with either blue or red flakes and that is at night.

Jigs I prefer multiple colors, usually 3 contrasting colors in my skirts like black/purple/brown and use 1 of those colors in the trailer. Black and blue are a good contrast as proven by it's popularity. If the blue is bright like blue neon it contrast more to black. 

I want the bass to see my lures and contrast helps them find it!

Tom


fishing user avatarOklahoma Mike reply : 

Got it. Thank you for your response. 


fishing user avatarA-Jay reply : 

The Waters I'm fishing in up here are seriously clear.  My approach towards being successful when fishing it has many layers.   Bait color is one of, if not the Last one.  There are days when it's a big deal, but many days I could use 4 or 5 colors of the same bait / presentation with equal success.

However, in many cases, my most productive approach when presenting bottom contact plastics is to choose a color / pattern that matches the bottom color as closely as possible.  If it's a mostly open / bare sand bottom, that's what I'll go with.  If there is a blanket of vegetation, on the bottom &/or extremely prevalent in the area I'm fishing, going with a watermelon or green something can be the deal.

 My thought here is that the bass know their environment and although big color difference can & does get bit, the bass's natural prey is almost always trying to avoid detection, so a camouflaging color pattern makes sense.

 

A-Jay

 


fishing user avatarWilliam Rossi reply : 

If the fish see it they will eat it. Color USUALLY doesnt matter as much as anglers think


fishing user avatarU-boat Aficionado reply : 

Smallmouth sure seem to go for the bright, flashy colors. I love using fire tiger flavor lures for them!


fishing user avatarJagg reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 3:01 AM, WRB said:

Where I fish in clear deep structured lakes color can be the critical factor and most of our lakes change preference seasonally.

Several reasons for this, the depth the bass are at, the preferred prey at the time and angler preference. 

If the bass feeding heavily on crawdads darker colors work good, Shad lighter transparent colors work good. 

That's it pretty much. You're probably fishing around craws or the bass in that water feed heavily on craws. A lot of the water I fish around SE CO is very clear and I do very well on green pumpkin w/blue flake because most of the crawfish here are those colors most of the year. 

 

I also try to match the bottom like A-Jay said up top because that has been my experience almost universally that prey will try to camouflage itself with it's surroundings, but if I know what color the prey they are eating is and water/wind/light conditions will allow I will "match the hatch".


fishing user avatarTurkey sandwich reply : 

We can all give our best guesses based on experience, but figuring out "why" is rarely more than that - educated guesses. Here's my take.  Generally, I think, choosing color comes down to either matching forage accurately or creating enough contrast to make your bait visible.  Sometimes even on brighter days in clear water the darker colors provide that contrast.  Another consideration has to do with light penetration.  If there's any discoloration in the water, there's  going to be much less light available 20, 30, 40 feet down.  Similarly, early morning or late evening means less light and darker colors (black, brown, purple, green pumpkin) provide more contrast.  I also think having something super visible - be it dark contrast or crazy bright like bubble gum or methiolate can be very effective for sight fishing, not so much  because they look great but because they're super visible to the angler. 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 2:05 AM, Geebo said:

The last couple of years I switched up colors and started using junebug, PB&J and black/blue and out fished all of my friends.  It seems counter intuitive that dark colors would work so well on a clear lake regardless if it's sunny or overcast. I am hoping to gain some insights on why this is happening and any recommendations on other lures/colors to use.

 

Thank you!

 

Bass don't read color charts so why are you!

 

We can try to soothe our egos by thinking we have em figured out but they will prove we don't.

 

  On 1/16/2017 at 2:05 AM, Geebo said:

 

  On 1/16/2017 at 2:05 AM, Geebo said:

 

 


fishing user avatarpapajoe222 reply : 

I'm with AJ when it comes to color selection. The first thing I check is the shade of the bottom, though, not the color as I'm partially color blind.  Often times, in the same lake, the bottom composition changes from hard to soft, or rock to clay or sand.

Aside from being great places to target, being aware of those changes and changing colors when you do can greatly increase your production.

The other thing to consider is how pressured is the lake? Everyone, and I mean everyone, that fishes a private lake I frequent uses green pumpkin or water melon colored plastics.  I've gone to PBJ and black/blue on tough days with great success.  The other guideline i've always gone by is to show them something different and that goes for color selection, too.


fishing user avatarBassWhole! reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 2:08 AM, Wayne P. said:

The fish don't care what the color is, you do.

 

This ^


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 5:42 AM, A-Jay said:

Bait color is one of, if not the Last one.  

 

A-Jay

 

 

I put lure color dead last   :)

 

 

Here's a wild idea:

Select a versatile color pattern when you buy the lure, then obstinately stick to that one color. 

By removing lure color from the equation, your mind will be forced to blame success and failure

on other things like water depth, cover pattern, retrieve cadence and so on.

In my opinion, that approach is more likely to double your catch than color.

 

Roger

 

 


fishing user avatarMosster47 reply : 

I've been fishing spots in a really clear creek the last month using one type of bait. I have four colors. Two of the colors they kind of check out, one they won't even pay attention to, and one they swim to as fast as they can an inhale it right when they spot it.

 

The one they bite is the most natural looking. It's a "match the hatch thing." Nothing in that creek is solid black, white and flashy, or purple. Green pumpkin and pepper looks like it belongs. 

 

I've never believed color doesn't matter, because I've fished enough with other people for the same thing using similar stuff to know it matters.

 

You can find the right color in black, white, green, and purple for the conditions, but they aren't a substitute for each other.


fishing user avatarcgolf reply : 

I agree that all bodies of water especially clear lakes have their own color patterns that develop. One lake I fish I could probably take two colors and be good for the week. It is a heavy bluegill lake. Flat water with some sun, smoke purple and smoke red are money. Overcast or heavy chop, water red is the hot color. My guess is these colors match the gills in the different light conditions. 

 

To the op you figured out what they are keying and it sounds like rather quickly, and the fish aren't as picky as the ones I chase. One thing you could do is keep a log and see if your catch rates change in sun, overcast, or choppy when sunny. Choppy water seems to break up the light making bait selection similar to overcast conditions. The log will help you dial in the baits to use each time you go out. 


fishing user avatar"hamma" reply : 

I believe that color does matter, but only to the extent of where you are fishing.

I think that different waters require different attention as far as color is concerned.

 Some it does matter,...and some not so much.

 I've found that clear waters,.. it makes a difference, and swampier/muddy waters not as prolific as the gin clear lakes.

 

 Could be my perception, and still "my" issue,....but I think not

 

 My jig box has 4 different colors of jigs in it,... Why?,...cuz thats what I need to be consistent no matter where im fishing.

 They are black,...Black/blue,....brown,,, and green

 

 And if I'm wrong? tell me what color I do need, so I can clear up some valuable space! The bass seem to like what I already have, so,... if you have the magic color,....Please, by all means, correct us all


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

The #1 mistake out of state visiting anglers make when bass fishing our SoCal trophy bass lakes is using too heavy line. #2 is using soft plastics colors that work at their home lakes.

Finesse bass fishing started here for a reason, the traditional terminal tackle and off the shelf soft plastics didn't work after the introduction of Florida strain LMB. 

The exception to the above is a few lakes that had a population of northern strain LMB that are more aggressive and less particular about details like color or size.

We base our statements on experience. When Bass fishing in Mexico I use stuff that doesn't work at home because they tend to bite anything that moves.

Tom


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 

I don't know the answer, but I have a ton of black/blue plastics and I try to buy everything I can at least in black/blue and some natural looking colors. Purple is another killer color for soft plastics. But there are times fish will snub them and I'll have to reach for the pumpkins and watermelons. Usually, when I have to do that I also have to downsize and that tells me they're just getting very picky and discriminating. Light or bright blues and even reds don't work well for me around here. I've caught fish in the middle of the day on a black/blue spinnerbait with a black blade.

 

Hey, why do fish bite 6" worms? I don't know, but they do.


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 9:58 AM, William Rossi said:

If the fish see it they will eat it. Color USUALLY doesnt matter as much as anglers think

I have always believed that, but I have learned on one body of water I fish that it can make quite a difference. When you sit in the back of the boat and watch your buddy slaying them with a gold Rat L Trap and you only have silver and craw that can't buy a bite, you'll go get a few gold next chance you get. The same goes for spinnerbaits in this place. 

 

 But they'll bite black craws there.


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 

I've been noticing this winter millipedes crawling on the shore. They are predominately medium brown in color with tan colored stripes between their bendable structure. Kind of similar to the pic below. Am now looking for a plastic that has similar color and pattern. I have to think the bass must love these things and those 100's of tiny feet moving must be attractive.

 

Interestingly, I did some research on Millipedes and just in California alone, there are 226 species! 

 

This is not my pic but it's kind of similar in color to the ones I've been seeing.

 

Spirobolida,%20Middle%20Spring_056.jpg


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 

Chart

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=501768&stc=1&d=1424390461

 

This guy really breaks it down scientifically and it makes a lot of sense (to me). Part I of IV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/18/2017 at 12:33 PM, mixel said:

Chart

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=501768&stc=1&d=1424390461

 

This guy really breaks it down scientifically and it makes a lot of sense (to me). Part I of IV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heres another interesting chart .What happens to light waves when the water goes from clear to muddy .

light%202.jpg


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

@scaleface now we gotta get the bass to read all them charts!

 

For whatever reason bass round here disagree ;)


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/18/2017 at 10:19 PM, Catt said:

@scaleface now we gotta get the bass to read all them charts!

 

For whatever reason bass round here disagree ;)

That chart does not state what color to use . It   states how light waves disappear  under water . Its not some crazy made up stuff .


fishing user avatarMrPeanut reply : 

I think action / profile / location are all more important than color, so I try to keep it basic with colors; stocking up on black&blue and green pumpkin for the most part.

 

I do use variations of those and get some goofy looking colors too though, because even though they're out there to catch fisherman more than fish in some cases, fishing's a hobby so why not? If it works it works. I don't fish in tournaments, so to me, if an odd colored robo worm doesn't get as many bites on a drop shot as a different color, it's not a loss of money or tournament points or anything, its just "oh well, I'll try a different color when I crack open a beer, I'm still not at work :) "


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 

Checkout the difference between a bright and dark colored bait in stained water

 

 


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

^^ Amberbock , Michelob , Bud Light  and water  ^^


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/18/2017 at 11:45 PM, scaleface said:

That chart does not state what color to use . It   states how light waves disappear  under water . Its not some crazy made up stuff .

 

As seen through human eyes & interpreted by the human brain!


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 12:27 AM, Catt said:

 

As seen through human eyes & interpreted by the human brain!

LOL no , the chart does not mention eyes or brains . Light waves only .


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Several scientific factors to consider:

Fish, including bass, have very different eyes then humans do.

Fish and birds can see a wider spectrum of colors then humans can.

Fish, including bass, have brains that interpret underwater light waves, humans live out of water and must take a light source underwater to see color.

Any study that uses light waves based on human sight isn't sceintific!

Tom


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 12:29 AM, scaleface said:

LOL no , the chart does not mention eyes or brains . Light waves only .

 

Might wanna reword this ;)

 

Ya making too easy!


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

Why do bass bite any colored thing in any water?  They're hungry.  Find hungry bass, and you've won half the game.  If I'm all the way down my list of variables, to a specific color or pattern, it's been a very difficult day of fishing.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 12:34 AM, WRB said:

Several scientific factors to consider:

Fish, including bass, have very different eyes then humans do.

Fish and birds can see a wider spectrum of colors then humans can.

Fish, including bass, have brains that interpret underwater light waves, humans live out of water and must take a light source underwater to see color.

Any study that uses light waves based on human sight isn't sceintific!

Tom

 

Y'all ever look at colorful fish like bluegill under water & the take it out of the water?

 

What ya notice?


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 

How about some more info

 

Bass Vision

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/biologists-look-bass-senses

 

http://www.bradwiegmann.com/fish-biology/39-fish-biologist/119-characteristics-of-largemouth-bass-vision.html


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

  Water absorbs the energy in light  . Blue has shorter light waves than red  thus it has more energy . So red light is absorbed relatively quickly blue penetrates deeper.  When suspended particles are entered in the equation blue is effected more than red . The blue  light waves are closer together and get blocked faster . I am not making this up and it is easy to understand . This does not involve eyes or brains . Eyes or brains do not figure into it at all .  


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 12:34 AM, WRB said:

Several scientific factors to consider:

Fish, including bass, have very different eyes then humans do.

Fish and birds can see a wider spectrum of colors then humans can.

Fish, including bass, have brains that interpret underwater light waves, humans live out of water and must take a light source underwater to see color.

Any study that uses light waves based on human sight isn't sceintific!

Tom

 

You're making some incredibly wide ranging assumptions here and then chide someone for not being scientific. LOL. Just a few of your assumptions:

 

All birds and fish see color the same.

All fish see the same.

 

:)

 

 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 1:26 AM, mixel said:

 

You're making some incredibly wide ranging assumptions here and then chide someone for not being scientific. LOL. Just a few of your assumptions:

 

All birds and fish see color the same.

All fish see the same.

 

:)

 

 

Never said all. Fact, the human eye has very poor low light color detection and a limited color spectrum. For example we need aides to see ultra violet. Some birds and fish, including bass, see detailed colors in low light and may see ultra violet color spectrum.

Tom


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 

True, you didn't say 'all' but when you state 'fish and birds', it is implied because you did not specify which birds or fish you were referring too. Since we aren't concerned with birds or non-bass fish for this discussion, it seems it would be more pertinent to focus on facts about bass with some links preferably to back up your stated argument. :)

 

Can you provide more information and a link on your third statement regarding a (bass) fish's ability to 'interpret underwater light waves' ? I'm a bit confused by that statement.


fishing user avatarThe Bassman reply : 

Homer Circle once said that only the fish know and they're not talkin'.


fishing user avatarafrayed knot reply : 

WRB summed it up pretty well I think


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 1:16 AM, scaleface said:

This does not involve eyes or brains . Eyes or brains do not figure into it at all .  

 

Ya kidding right? ;)


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 7:01 PM, Catt said:

 

Ya kidding right? ;)

Catt , you're the one who keeps bringing eyes and brains into it . The chart I posted has nothing to do with a basses eyes and brain  , humans eyes and brain  or an aardvarks eyes and brain .  Bass could be completely blind but the light waves act the same way . You are making an argument where one does not exist .  

 


fishing user avatarTurkey sandwich reply : 

Yeah.    This argument.  The guy who wrote the book on this showed up here and the conversation got chippy. I like WRB and Catt, but this is one conversation where I've embraced agreeing to disagree and avoid the topic.  Lol. 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 7:38 PM, scaleface said:

Catt , you're the one who keeps bringing eyes and brains into it . The chart I posted has nothing to do with a basses eyes and brain  , humans eyes and brain  or an aardvarks eyes and brain .  Bass could be completely blind but the light waves act the same way . You are making an argument where one does not exist .  

 

 

I totally understand all the "scientific" charts & research but you're failing to understand it's "as seen by human eyes & interpreted by a human brain".

 

As to what a bass sees & does not see or how it interprets what it sees is shear speculation!

 

To the human eyes & brain red " disappears" under water (actually changes color) but yet it's highly productive.

 

This whole thread & thousands of hours of experience by anglers leads one to believe bass don't see what we see.

 

How does a bass find my black worm sitting perfectly still on the bottom in 25' of water on a moonless night?


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 9:16 PM, Catt said:

 

 

As to what a bass sees & does not see or how it interprets what it sees is shear speculation!

 

 

Yes  and I am not pretending to know how a bass perceives its environment . I have stayed away from that .


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 

If an eyeless, brainless bear s**ts in the woods, is there any moonlight?

 

:D

 

You can absolutely measure and discuss light without any assumption about brains, whether belonging to humans or fish.

 

If I want to measure the temperature of a pot of water, I don’t have to stick my hand in it, I can use a thermometer.  The temperature is the temperature.  Underwater light is underwater light (including UV, X Rays, whatever – all measureable).

 

I don’t see what the confusion is with this. 


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 4:37 AM, fissure_man said:

I don’t see what the confusion is with this.

 

I think the confusion lies in what each eye can physically detect, and what that brain connected to that eye can perceive.

 

No one really knows, though some assumptions can be made.   The rods and cones aspect tells me more about why bass are very active during crepuscular periods - dawn and dusk - and their ability to adjust to changing light levels, and seeing "better" than their prey, but I'm not so sure specific color plays as big a role as bait companies will have you think. 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Go online and search "animals that can see ultraviolet" just might open your eyes!

Tom


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

Aren't UV rays one of the first wavelengths to get filtered out by water?

 

Most of what I've seen is bunk science, coating an object with some phosphorescent coating, and shining a black light on it to show you what something might see.  Total fake science. 

Now, some older red paint getting replaced by another red paint, and all of sudden the lure doesn't work.....I've heard that tale before, and I believe there may be something to it, something we can't detect, but perhaps the fish do.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:04 AM, J Francho said:

 

I think the confusion lies in what each eye can physically detect, and what that brain connected to that eye can perceive.

 

No one really knows, though some assumptions can be made.   The rods and cones aspect tells me more about why bass are very active during crepuscular periods - dawn and dusk - and their ability to adjust to changing light levels, and seeing "better" than their prey, but I'm not so sure specific color plays as big a role as bait companies will have you think. 

 

Fair point.  We don’t know exactly how bass eyes work, and we REALLY don’t know how their eyes and brain might work together to come up with ‘preferred’ colors.

 

But it’s pretty clear that bass have some sort of light-based vision, and there are plenty of anecdotal claims that color preferences exist, at least in some circumstances.

 

Assuming that bass vision is facilitated by light (including UV, potentially), why not study the lighting conditions in their environment?  The light present underwater is what allows them to see whatever they see, even if we don’t fully understand it right now.  Why the controversy?  Lol

 

Random claims of “I caught a bass in the middle of the night on an XX colored worm, therefore all science involving light measurement is bogus!” …. are ridiculous.

 

  On 1/20/2017 at 5:07 AM, WRB said:

Go online and search "animals that can see ultraviolet" just might open your eyes!

Tom

 

Ultraviolet light.

 

If bass can see ultraviolet light, then measure UV underwater too!  How is that any different?

 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

My point is simple, the human eye can't detect UV or infrared IR without aides, pas serine birds, about 1/2 the bird population,  salmon, butterflies can. I have never read a study on LMB specific to their ability to see UV. However over 60 years experience supports the basses color spectrum is far better then ours.

Tom


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:32 AM, WRB said:

My point is simple, the human eye can't detect UV or infrared IR without aides, pas serine birds, about 1/2 the bird population,  salmon, butterflies can. I have never read a study on LMB specific to their ability to see UV. However over 60 years experience supports the basses color spectrum is far better then ours.

Tom

 

That may be true, who knows?  Be careful, making claims about bass color perception is a sure way to get scolded around here ;)

 

We know one thing: bass can't see light that is not present.  Figuring out what types of light are and are not present underwater is a step toward decoding your 60 years of anecdotal evidence.  What's unscientific about that?   Nobody is claiming they have all the answers.


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:32 AM, WRB said:

My point is simple, the human eye can't detect UV or infrared IR without aides, pas serine birds, about 1/2 the bird population,  salmon, butterflies can. I have never read a study on LMB specific to their ability to see UV. However over 60 years experience supports the basses color spectrum is far better then ours.

Tom

That may very well be true and a bass may perceive red completely different than us but the fact is a red lure ,   apple  or fire truck will only reflect red light if it is being hit by red light .


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:49 AM, fissure_man said:

 

That may be true, who knows?  Be careful, making claims about bass color perception is a sure way to get scolded around here ;)

 

We know one thing: bass can't see light that is not present.  Figuring out what types of light are and are not present underwater is a step toward decoding your 60 years of anecdotal evidence.  What's unscientific about that?   Nobody is claiming they have all the answers.

 

  On 1/20/2017 at 5:49 AM, fissure_man said:

 

That may be true, who knows?  Be careful, making claims about bass color perception is a sure way to get scolded around here ;)

 

We know one thing: bass can't see light that is not present.  Figuring out what types of light are and are not present underwater is a step toward decoding your 60 years of anecdotal evidence.  What's unscientific about that?   Nobody is claiming they have all the answers.

Look up Ultraviolet sensitivity, Scold away! 

Tom


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:57 AM, WRB said:

 

Look up Ultraviolet sensitivity, Scold away! 

Tom

 

The scolding comes from @Catt , in my experience.

:D

 

I looked up ultraviolet sensitivity, and learned why some people get sunburnt easier than others lol.

 

Also lots of research on birds, fish, and spiders with UV-sensitive eyes.

 

Nothing about why a scientist would need to know anything about bass biology, eyes, or brains, in order to measure light underwater.

 

UV vision for bass might be plausible, I’m not trying to disprove it.  Like you said – there doesn’t appear to be much research for LMB.  But there is evidence that bass can see portions of the same visible spectrum that we can, so observing how those wavelengths are transmitted/absorbed isn't irrelevant.  Perhaps they can see UV as well.    

 

If bass are sensing UV light with their eyes, then ‘color’ from a bass perspective becomes pretty abstract to the human mind.  (I think this is what all the fuss is about :D)  It’s abstract, but it can still be studied without breaking any 'rules' of science.

 

If bass can see UV, it would raise some interesting questions/thoughts:

 

Should we put any stock in the UV-reflective lures and lure coatings that are available?  The claims made by those companies are backed by ‘research’ that seems very tough to find, and some of the promotional material is nonsense.   But as a concept it makes sense to me.  A UV-reflective surface would stand out to UV-sensitive eyes, for the same reason that a red-painted surface would stand out to red-sensitive eyes (as long as there’s UV [or red] light around to be reflected).

 

You could also take the other approach to maximize visibility, by choosing something that does not reflect UV light at all, to create a strong silhouette against a backdrop of 'bright' UV illumination.  This is the same effect that makes solid black lures stand out in most any water condition, at least to human eyes.  Maybe this is what all our regular lures do all the time (how UV-reflective is a normal soft plastic or hardbait)?  Of course, maximising visibility is not necessarily a good thing – but you could flip these approaches to minimize visibility, or anywhere in between.

 

“Matching the hatch” becomes more abstract as well.  Instead of visually (read: “humanly”) matching the look of the prey you’re imitating, why not match the reflectivity of all light wavelengths?  What does a craw 'look' like underwater, to a critter whose vision is fully or partially based in UV? 

 

UV comes from the sun, and at night the predominant light source is reflected light from the moon.  How reflective is the moon when it comes to UV light vs. other wavelengths?  IE: is UV proportionally less present at night (or the opposite, maybe)?

 

And lastly, as an extension of Scaleface's chart, how is light (of all wavelengths) transmitted and absorbed through water of varying clarity, turbity, etc?  In what scenarios is underwater lighting dominated by blues, reds, UV, etc?


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/18/2017 at 12:12 PM, mixel said:

I've been noticing this winter millipedes crawling on the shore. They are predominately medium brown in color with tan colored stripes between their bendable structure. Kind of similar to the pic below. Am now looking for a plastic that has similar color and pattern. I have to think the bass must love these things and those 100's of tiny feet moving must be attractive.

 

Interestingly, I did some research on Millipedes and just in California alone, there are 226 species! 

 

This is not my pic but it's kind of similar in color to the ones I've been seeing.

 

Spirobolida,%20Middle%20Spring_056.jpg

Most millipedes have chemical defenses, exuding irritants that would likely make them poor critters to mimic.


fishing user avatarcontium reply : 
  On 1/19/2017 at 9:16 PM, Catt said:

To the human eyes & brain red " disappears" under water (actually changes color) but yet it's highly productive.

It's not "to the human eyes & brain". Red is filtered out period. Drop a spectrophotometer over the side of a boat and this can easily be measured. There is no interpretation going on. 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 3:49 AM, contium said:

It's not "to the human eyes & brain".

 

There is no interpretation going on. 

 

 

That's  funny right there! 

 

The spectrophotometer Invented itself... Right! 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 5:34 AM, Catt said:

 

 

That's  funny right there! 

 

The spectrophotometer Invented itself... Right! 

 

Flawless logic:

 

The spectrophotometer was invented by humans, therefore it can only 'see' what humans see.

 

Humans invented x-ray imaging, therefore humans have x-ray vision!

 

Who knew? :D


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 

Holy cow, are we really going here again :P lol.

 

I like Hackney's comments in his newest Bassmaster column which pertains to the color subject (YMMV):

 

  Quote

 

It’s a common scenario: Someone comes back to the dock with a certain lure tied on in a certain color and tells everyone how many big bass he caught. Right then, usually within 5 minutes, some of the anglers who didn’t catch many run to the local tackle shop to buy a handful of the same lures...

 

The whole situation would be laughable, if it weren’t so sad. I’ve fished a day or two during my lifetime. I can tell you that it’s rare — like never — that bass are keyed on a specific bait in a specific color.

 

 

...and on the UV subject, I've never seen a study supporting UV vision to any degree in mature bass, and I've read a few ;) The best work being done in this area is by a guy on the East coast, but he hasn't tackled common freshwater fish yet. He has done several saltwater species as well as a few crossovers like striped bass. Again, doesn't mean that's an absolute, just that I'm not putting any stock (or $$) into sales pitches for UV baits of any kind for bass at this point in the game. 

 

-T9


fishing user avatarmixel reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 1:25 AM, Paul Roberts said:

Most millipedes have chemical defenses, exuding irritants that would likely make them poor critters to mimic.

 

Dang, just when I think I have it all figured out. :lol:


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 9:05 AM, mixel said:

 

Dang, just when I think I have it all figured out. :lol:

:D


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:23 AM, fissure_man said:

Random claims of “I caught a bass in the middle of the night on an XX colored worm, therefore all science involving light measurement is bogus!” …. are ridiculous

 

 

Aint nobody made that claim but you!

 

And by the way y'all never answered that question because ya can't!


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 7:51 AM, Team9nine said:

Holy cow, are we really going here again :P lol.

 

I like Hackney's comments in his newest Bassmaster column which pertains to the color subject (YMMV):

 

 

...and on the UV subject, I've never seen a study supporting UV vision to any degree in mature bass, and I've read a few ;) The best work being done in this area is by a guy on the East coast, but he hasn't tackled common freshwater fish yet. He has done several saltwater species as well as a few crossovers like striped bass. Again, doesn't mean that's an absolute, just that I'm not putting any stock (or $$) into sales pitches for UV baits of any kind for bass at this point in the game. 

 

-T9

Yes, holy cow. I was gonna duck this entirely.

 

But, there is some relatively new stuff on UV vision in rainbow trout adults that had gone undetected by previous investigations. I got into that discussion on a trout site. Of course the guy bringing it forward appeared to have some investment in the idea so he ran a bit far with his conclusions.

 

Then there was some very old work done on yellow perch (1980's) -which originally were known to use UV only when very young- that found UV sensitivity in adults. Use? Unknown, but social reasons were suggested (something I suspect for both rainbow trout and possibly bass).

 

As to lure color, I pretty much go with Hackney's take, for lots of reasons I've shared here over the years. But, I will also... never say never.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/21/2017 at 7:51 AM, Team9nine said:

Holy cow, are we really going here again :P lol.

 

I like Hackney's comments in his newest Bassmaster column which pertains to the color subject (YMMV):

 

 

It would be really cool for a top pro to go all in on the 'color doesn't matter' stance - fish nothing but merthiolate colored baits for a tournament season.  Maybe they’d do just as well as ever?  It would be a cool experiment.  For most people you might think there’d be a confidence handicap, but if they are truly convinced it makes no difference… 

 

I suspect sponsors wouldn’t be thrilled about an experiment to convince anglers they don't need to buy 10 colors of each bait.  Then again, as in the Hackney quote, maybe that experiment would just have the masses running out to stock up on more merthiolate :D

 

  On 1/21/2017 at 6:38 PM, Catt said:

Aint nobody made that claim but you!

 

And by the way y'all never answered that question because ya can't!

 

Catt, this debate will go nowhere until you open your mind lol.  If scaleface's light penetration chart (or any other research on light transmission/absorption) was presented in a forum on physics, marine ecology, tuna fishing, etc., would you dispute it on the basis that we don’t understand bass eyes/brains?  It has nothing to do with bass.  Your stance is akin to disputing the theory of gravity, because a 200 lb angler feels more gravitational force than a 5 lb bass.

 

Even if we had a perfect understanding of bass vision, translating that into situation-specific lure color preferences (that may or may not exist) would take another huge leap of understanding.  We know that. 

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/22/2017 at 2:23 AM, fissure_man said:

 

It would be really cool for a top pro to go all in on the 'color doesn't matter' stance - fish nothing but merthiolate colored baits for a tournament season.  Maybe they’d do just as well as ever?  It would be a cool experiment.  For most people you might think there’d be a confidence handicap, but if they are truly convinced it makes no difference… 

 

I suspect sponsors wouldn’t be thrilled about an experiment to convince anglers they don't need to buy 10 colors of each bait.  Then again, as in the Hackney quote, maybe that experiment would just have the masses running out to stock up on more merthiolate :D

 

 

Would be a fun experiment. I've seen several pros argue they keep color selection simple, but I've also seen the garages and tackle collections of several, and they're anything but simple or selective.

 

I've played around with such things on the water myself just for amusement. For instance, one day I brought only my shallow crank box with me. Tied on a snap (which I rarely use but wanted quick lure changes), then went fishing. The caveat being every time I landed a fish on a bait, I had to drop it in the boat (the bait) and change to another bait (color, size, brand). No using the exact same bait twice. I believe I ended up catching bass on 21 of the 23 different variations of baits/colors/depths/vibrations I got to try that day. It's a good way to prove to yourself that some of the small details aren't as critical to success as some make them out to be.

 

-T9  


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 

Notice black is good for dirty water even on bright days. And there are darks on the chart for clear water/cloudy days. Thus, dark colors have 3/4 of the spectrum covered. When they aren't the go-to, it'll be quite obvious. It's a sunny day with gin clear water. So watermelon or punkin is in order. I find these almost interchangeable so I can probably boil my plastic choices down to two bags of each bait...maybe three. That said, I still fish watermelon/orange or red flake in stained water with good success, especially when bass just aren't reacting. The less reactive they are, the more I want a natural color and/or a smaller size. At least that's how I see it.

soft-plastic-color-selector-chart.jpg


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

The color 'red' has the longest, sloppiest light wave in the light spectrum.

As a result, ‘red’ is the first color to be absorbed and scattered by air and water.

By the same token, a 'red lure' soon becomes a 'black lure' when the water depth is increased

or when the sun goes behind a cloud.

 

On the opposite end of the light spectrum is "violet", the shortest, most penetrating light wave.

This lends to the fact that our sky and our hydrosphere are dominated by blue hues.

As a lure descends into the darkness of depth, is 'blue' the last visible color?

 

VISIBLE TO WHO?

Based on the human experience, light waves longer than ‘red’ comprise invisible light, which we call ‘infrared’.

Inversely, light  waves shorter than ‘violet’ are also invisible light, which humans call ‘ultraviolet’.

Man has learned from creatures in the ocean’s abyss, that visible light is not the same for all living creatures.

So in the final analysis, we’ve only reaffirmed the fact that man cannot see through the eyes of a fish.

Roger


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/22/2017 at 11:09 AM, RoLo said:

The color 'red' has the longest, sloppiest light wave in the light spectrum.

As a result, ‘red’ is the first color to be absorbed and scattered by air and water.

By the same token, a 'red lure' soon becomes a 'black lure' when the water depth is increased

or when the sun goes behind a cloud.

 

On the opposite end of the light spectrum is "violet", the shortest, most penetrating light wave.

This lends to the fact that our sky and our hydrosphere are dominated by blue hues.

As a lure descends into the darkness of depth, is 'blue' the last visible color?

 

VISIBLE TO WHO?

Based on the human experience, light waves longer than ‘red’ comprise invisible light, which we call ‘infrared’.

Inversely, light  waves shorter than ‘violet’ are also invisible light, which humans call ‘ultraviolet’.

Man has learned from creatures in the ocean’s abyss, that visible light is not the same for all living creatures.

So in the final analysis, we’ve only reaffirmed the fact that man cannot see through the eyes of a fish.

Roger

 

It’s off topic, but the sky isn’t blue because blue light is most penetrating – it’s the opposite.  Light transmissivity is different in air vs. water vs. ozone vs. glass etc.

 

Earth’s atmosphere scatters blue-ish light much more effectively than red, so much of the blue light that would otherwise ‘shine’ overhead in the middle of the day is scattered down to our eyes.  At the end of the day (sunset), we only see what’s left of light that’s travelled on a long trajectory through the atmosphere, which is why the sunset appears ‘redder’ (blue light has been scattered away).

 

Behavior in pure water is different, and blue-red hierarchy of ‘visible’ light transmissivity is well known.  Bass rarely (never) live in pure water, so we consider other environmental effects.  The effect of turbidity, stain, etc on light transmissivity depends on wavelength, sometimes to such a degree that the usual hierarchy of ‘penetration depth’ is altered.

 

Yes, most of these charts and studies focus on 'visible' light, but the same logic can be extended to and tested on light waves of any frequency.  We are certainly capable of measuring light that we're unable to see, and studying bass physiology gives us insight into what they might be capable of seeing.  If we learned about the eyesight of creatures in the ocean’s abyss, why couldn’t we do the same for bass?

 


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

Granted, blue light is scattered by dust, ions and solid particles.

But when traveling thru liquid matter alone, light penetration hinges on the wavelength of the color.

Be all that as it may, biologists have yet to learn how colors, especially those in the ultraviolet spectrum,

might appear in the eye of a bass. The two references below deal with 'water penetration'

as it applies to different colors in the light spectrum.

====================================================================

NASA Government Education  (Scroll down about a foot)

https://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/education-and-outreach/additional/science-focus/ocean-color/oceanblue.shtml

 

Why is this transparent water the bluest ocean water?

 

There are two major optical processes by which ocean water and substances dissolved or suspended in ocean water, interact with incoming light from the Sun. The two processes are absorption and scattering. In the atmosphere, the main reason that the sky is blue is due to the scattering of light (more about this process can be found in the Science Focus! article “It’s Not Easy Being Normal”, in the section on Rayleigh scattering). In the ocean, the primary way that water interacts with light is absorption, and water absorbs different colors of the visible spectrum better than others. Water preferentially absorbs red light, and to a lesser extent, yellow and green light, so the color that is least absorbed by water is blue light.

 

< Visit Website To View COLOR PENETRATION Diagram >

 

This diagram shows the depth that light will penetrate in clear ocean water. Because red light is absorbed strongly, it has the shallowest penetration depth, and blue light has the deepest penetration depth.

====================================================================

 

NOAA (Another Interesting read from another reliable source)

http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/red-color.html

 

Roger


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/20/2017 at 5:49 AM, fissure_man said:

 

That may be true, who knows?  Be careful, making claims about bass color perception is a sure way to get scolded around here ;)

 

We know one thing: bass can't see light that is not present.  Figuring out what types of light are and are not present underwater is a step toward decoding your 60 years of anecdotal evidence.  What's unscientific about that?   Nobody is claiming they have all the answers.

 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

What got me started thinking about lure colors and how fish see them was Jason Lucas back in the early 60's. Jay wrote a chapter in his book and related a story about Eppinger lures a Daredevil spoons and have repeated this a few times on this site.

Eppinger changed paint supplier and their lures sale went down hill fast. The complaints came from everywhere across the country and Canada. The problem was the red paint, they changed back to the original red paint supplier and solved the problem. The original red apparently looked very different under ultraviolet light. Apparently game fish of all types could see the difference. How bass see colors is unknown, all we can do is speculate.

Greens including green pumpkin has been poor choice in most clear SoCal lakes, however can be good at times like post spawn. Green Weenie was a color combo that got started in SoCal hand pours 20 years ago, forgotten color today. To the best of my knowledge junebug dark purple with green flakes got started in Florida over 20 years ago and still is popular. Bass anglers maybe more fickle about colors than bass are judging from the hundreds of colors we try to feed them.

Tom

 


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I'm a firm believer in match the hatch.  If the bass are eating dark craw dads with bright orange claws, any lure I fish will have some bright orange on it.  Fish are no different than people.  If someone wants you to count the number of small brown birds in brown bushes, you will not use color as a key in finding the birds.  You will be looking for movement and shape.  If you art told to count the number of birds with a yellow head in the same bushes, you will key in on the color yellow more than movement or shape.  Figure out what they are eating and try to match color of the prey.  If they are eating a variety of prey then a more visible color, with lots of action may help.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/23/2017 at 2:17 AM, WRB said:

What got me started thinking about lure colors and how fish see them was Jason Lucas back in the early 60's. Jay wrote a chapter in his book and related a story about Eppinger lures a Daredevil spoons and have repeated this a few times on this site.

Eppinger changed paint supplier and their lures sale went down hill fast. The complaints came from everywhere across the country and Canada. The problem was the red paint, they changed back to the original red paint supplier and solved the problem. The original red apparently looked very different under ultraviolet light. Apparently game fish of all types could see the difference. How bass see colors is unknown, all we can do is speculate.

Greens including green pumpkin has been poor choice in most clear SoCal lakes, however can be good at times like post spawn. Green Weenie was a color combo that got started in SoCal hand pours 20 years ago, forgotten color today. To the best of my knowledge junebug dark purple with green flakes got started in Florida over 20 years ago and still is popular. Bass anglers maybe more fickle about colors than bass are judging from the hundreds of colors we try to feed them.

Tom

 

 

This is a very interesting story, but I can’t help being skeptical.  Based on my experience with fish color preference, I can’t imagine a difference in fish attraction so distinct and consistent that it could be independently identified by everyday anglers all over NA, for all kinds of species, in all kinds of waterways, lighting conditions, etc.

 

Much more likely (IMO) would be a scenario where “word got out” that Eppinger changed their paint, leading to rumours that the effectiveness was compromised, leading to lost confidence and decreased sales.  I wonder how many people that sent in those complaints had heard that the paint was changed, then had a couple lousy days fishing, then concluded it must have been because of the paint.  I have no idea if that’s how it actually played out, just food for thought.  I think the ebbs and flows of lure sales (especially color-specific sales) depend much more on marketing and hype than any actual objective measure of “fish catching-ness.”

 

That’s not to say that the paint job couldn’t have had some real effect.  It’s a really interesting point to consider how lures that look identical to us might look very different to other creatures.  Quite a few posts talk about ‘matching the hatch’ with lure colors.  A shad-colored crankbait might look like a very close match to the real thing in our eyes, but subtle or invisible differences (to us) might stand out like a sore thumb to a fish that ‘sees’ in a different spectral range, or is able to visually differentiate certain wavelengths more precisely than us.  The same kind of logic is what has deer hunters fully decked out in camo, only to put on a blaze orange hat and vest.  The orange is highly visible to humans (worn for safety), but apparently not so for deer.

 

The Eppinger story feeds right into the hands of those promoting UV-reflective lures and lure coatings.  Have you tried any of those?  If I’m interpreting your school of thought correctly from your posts, it seems like those products should be up your alley when it comes to fine-tuning color selection.


fishing user avatarlo n slo reply : 

good reading, even during the football game. 

 

but i'm still dipping my tails in chartreuse. carry on smart people!


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

I read "Jason Lucas On Bass Fishing" hot off the press, just a young kid at the time.

It was the era of the "redhead", a white wooden plug with a red head (Jason's favorite water was Minnetonka, MN).

Remarkably, much of what Jason wrote about lure color during the late 50s is still applicable today.

 

  Quote

Bass anglers maybe more fickle about colors than bass

judging from the hundreds of colors we try to feed them

 

That's for sure, and this is reminiscent of the Seinfield series when George Constanza said:

"Jerry just remember, if you believe it...then it's not a lie"

(Modern Version = "If it's on the internet, it must be true")

 

Roger

 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/22/2017 at 10:36 PM, RoLo said:

Granted, blue light is scattered by dust, ions and solid particles.

But when traveling thru liquid matter alone, light penetration hinges on the wavelength of the color.

Be all that as it may, biologists have yet to learn how colors, especially those in the ultraviolet spectrum,

might appear in the eye of a bass. The two references below deal with 'water penetration'

as it applies to different colors in the light spectrum.

====================================================================

NASA Government Education  (Scroll down about a foot)

https://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/education-and-outreach/additional/science-focus/ocean-color/oceanblue.shtml

 

NOAA (Another Interesting read from another reliable source)

http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/red-color.html

 

Roger

 

This is all good info.  If this is a response to me, I don’t think it conflicts with anything I’ve posted; am I missing it?  Your first link hints at the same turbidity and water composition effects already mentioned:

 

“Clearer water means bluer water, because if there is anything else in the water to absorb or reflect or scatter the incoming light, the apparent color of the water will be altered.”

 

I agree we don’t know what bass see.  But their vision is based on light, and so it must depend on the lighting conditions of their environment (they’re not carrying flashlights!).  We don’t have to know everything about their eyes to conclude that they can’t ‘see’ red light where no red light is present, for example.

 

That doesn’t mean you can’t catch a bass on a red lure where there’s no red light, it just means the bass won’t see the lure’s “redness” (or whatever “redness” would mean to a bass).

 


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/23/2017 at 8:17 AM, fissure_man said:

This is all good info.  If this is a response to me, I don’t think it conflicts with anything I’ve posted; am I missing it?

 

 

WHO is right is not important, WHAT is right is all that matters

Roger


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/22/2017 at 2:23 AM, fissure_man said:

 

It would be really cool for a top pro to go all in on the 'color doesn't matter' stance - fish nothing but merthiolate colored baits for a tournament season.  Maybe they’d do just as well as ever?  It would be a cool experiment.  For most people you might think there’d be a confidence handicap, but if they are truly convinced it makes no difference… 

 

I suspect sponsors wouldn’t be thrilled about an experiment to convince anglers they don't need to buy 10 colors of each bait.  Then again, as in the Hackney quote, maybe that experiment would just have the masses running out to stock up on more merthiolate :D

 

 

Catt, this debate will go nowhere until you open your mind lol.  If scaleface's light penetration chart (or any other research on light transmission/absorption) was presented in a forum on physics, marine ecology, tuna fishing, etc., would you dispute it on the basis that we don’t understand bass eyes/brains?  It has nothing to do with bass.  Your stance is akin to disputing the theory of gravity, because a 200 lb angler feels more gravitational force than a 5 lb bass.

 

Even if we had a perfect understanding of bass vision, translating that into situation-specific lure color preferences (that may or may not exist) would take another huge leap of understanding.  We know that. 

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 

 

Scolding?

I aint scolded anyone... Yet!

 

Oh I agree with the science of the colors of the spectrum but that is only one part of the science.

The next part is the eye & the next is the brain; when the two are added we get empirical evidence where Catt says I see blue & fissure_man says I see green. This difference between individual perception is more pronounced as colors blend or over lap.

 

Deer & blaze orange

 

fissue_man says I see blaze orange; the deer says where?

 

Two different eyes, two different brains

 

But yet the eyes & brain are not required?

 

Lake XYZ has a dense population of shad & the bass are feeding on shad, & we match the hatch is this not "situational-specific lure color preference"?


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 12:51 AM, Catt said:

 

Scolding?

I aint scolded anyone... Yet!

 

Oh I agree with the science of the colors of the spectrum but that is only one part of the science.

The next part is the eye & the next is the brain; when the two are added we get empirical evidence where Catt says I see blue & fissure_man says I see green. This difference between individual perception is more pronounced as colors blend or over lap.

 

Deer & blaze orange

 

fissue_man says I see blaze orange; the deer says where?

 

Two different eyes, two different brains

 

But yet the eyes & brain are not required?

 

Lake XYZ has a dense population of shad & the bass are feeding on shad, & we match the hatch is this not "situational-specific lure color preference"?

 

We don’t need to use words like “blue, orange, ultraviolet” to describe light frequencies.  The differences between colors are measurable and can be defined mathematically, objectively. 

 

If a deer can’t see the orange color of my hat, does it mean my hat isn’t orange?

 

If a color blind person can’t differentiate between green and red, does that mean there’s no difference between green and red?

 

Individual perceptions don’t change the underlying physics of light and color.  Based on what we do know, we can draw basic conclusions.  If my orange hat is in an environment devoid of orange light, nobody (human or otherwise) can see its orange-ness.

 

Your last point is a good one; mimicking forage is a way to side-step the whole debate.  But many (including yourself?) would claim that ‘matching the hatch’ isn’t always the best color strategy.  Why else would a 'color believer' carry 10” junebug worms, or bubblegum senkos, etc?  Many successful lures look nothing like 'the hatch'

 

My point was that a robust “theory of color preference” based on actually understanding bass vision/preferences/triggers is what would take much greater understanding than we currently possess (assuming such preferences even exist).

 

For the sake of argument, I’d say you’re violating your own premise if you assume you can effectively match your lure color to a forage fish, using your own eyes.  When you hold up a shad next to your shad crankbait and conclude that they look the same, how do you know that they would look the same to a bass?

 

(I’d say that short of analyzing the full-spectrum reflectivity of both, a ‘visual match’ is the best you can do, but it’s an interesting idea to think about.  Similar idea as WRB’s Eppinger story)


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 

I "feel" that color matters to bass sometimes, maybe often. But I  know it matters a lot to crappie. If you've ever trolled jigs and set your rods up for different colors, one color will almost always dominate. And usually some colors get completely ignored. It can change during the day or day to day, with no noticeable reason or pattern. If it matters greatly to crappie, I see no reason it doesn't matter just a little to bass.


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 3:53 AM, fissure_man said:

If a color blind person can’t differentiate between green and red, does that mean there’s no difference between green and red?

 

No, but I think I know what Catt might be getting at.

I'm color blind to blue and blue greens.  I can't really tell turquoise from a teal, or blue green.  They all look like various "blue" to me.  Are they different?  Yes.  Measurable? Yes.  Different to my pea brain? Not really.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 4:13 AM, J Francho said:

 

No, but I think I know what Catt might be getting at.

I'm color blind to blue and blue greens.  I can't really tell turquoise from a teal, or blue green.  They all look like various "blue" to me.  Are they different?  Yes.  Measurable? Yes.  Different to my pea brain? Not really.

 

So if someone’s fishing for a J Francho, it won’t matter if their lure is turquoise or teal.  J Francho won’t have a preference.  But the only reason we know that is because we know a bit about your vision – you told us. 

 

On the other hand, in a hypothetical environment devoid of all turquoise/teal light, nobody would have a preference between the turquoise/teal lures, because there’s no turquoise or teal light to be seen.  In this case, we don’t need to know about the vision of our quarry to draw the conclusion, other than the assumption that their vision is based on light.

 

(I’m assuming here that the turquoise/teal lures reflect only the visible colors that they are named for, and there is not a difference the reflectivity outside our visible range)

 

Sorry this got weird.  :D 

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 3:59 AM, the reel ess said:

I "feel" that color matters to bass sometimes, maybe often. But I  know it matters a lot to crappie. If you've ever trolled jigs and set your rods up for different colors, one color will almost always dominate. And usually some colors get completely ignored. It can change during the day or day to day, with no noticeable reason or pattern. If it matters greatly to crappie, I see no reason it doesn't matter just a little to bass.

 

Thanks for bringing this back to reality :D

 

I've also had some very compelling occasions where color preference seemed pretty hard to deny, mostly while vertical jigging walleyes with live bait.  If there’s a few of us jigging, we always start with different color heads because of this.


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 4:43 AM, fissure_man said:

But the only reason we know that is because we know a bit about your vision – you told us. 

 

That's the mystery, and why color is usually pretty low on my list of what to pick.  I do think larger, slower presentations call for better realism.  You can define realism however you want - profile, action, color, etc.


fishing user avatarmllrtm79 reply : 

I was watching this while my gf was screaming at the packers on tv yesterday afternoon, after enjoying the day down at a couple of my fishing holes:

 

 

I don't know about ya'll, but this man has caught more fish in the last 12 months than I have the past 12 years... 


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 4:43 AM, fissure_man said:

I've also had some very compelling occasions where color preference seemed pretty hard to deny, mostly while vertical jigging walleyes with live bait.  If there’s a few of us jigging, we always start with different color heads because of this.

 

Sometimes I do the "change-up," where I feel just changing the color trigger a strike.  It wasn't the that fish are on a specific color bite, but the new color was just something different. 


fishing user avatarmllrtm79 reply : 

I've noticed with several lure styles, crankbaits mainly and not as much with senkos, that a distinct color change on the side (laminate soft or chart stripe on crank) seems to trigger a reaction more than a specific color did at times.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 3:53 AM, fissure_man said:

For the sake of argument, I’d say you’re violating your own premise if you assume you can effectively match your lure color to a forage fish, using your own eyes.  When you hold up a shad next to your shad crankbait and conclude that they look the same, how do you know that they would look the same to a bass?

 

You have never heard me say anything ever about matching the hatch!

 

The things nonbelievers have to believe in order remain nonbelievers!

 

The falsifiable part of science is the human factor!


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 5:23 AM, Catt said:

You have never heard me say anything ever about matching the hatch!

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 12:51 AM, Catt said:

Lake XYZ has a dense population of shad & the bass are feeding on shad, & we match the hatch is this not "situational-specific lure color preference"?

 

???

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 5:23 AM, Catt said:

The things nonbelievers have to believe in order remain nonbelievers!

 

No idea what you mean by this... nonbelievers in what? lol

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 5:23 AM, Catt said:

The falsifiable part of science is the human factor!

 

Not sure what you mean by this either...

 

All of the points I've tried to explain are falsifiable.  Provide some evidence that disproves them.  I've been wrong many times before. (edited for jerk tone).  I'm struggling to say "I'm genuinely interested to see your evidence" without coming across like a jerk :D lol

 

Before you hit 'save' on a one line response, please indicate which specific statement you're providing evidence against.   


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 5:34 AM, fissure_man said:

All of the points I've tried to explain are falsifiable.  Provide some evidence that disproves them.  I've been wrong many times before. 

 

Done did!

 

  4 hours ago, Catt said:

Lake XYZ has a dense population of shad & the bass are feeding on shad, & we match the hatch is this not "situational-specific lure color preference"?

 

That's in response to your nonbelieve of  situational specific lure color preference because it's anecdotal evidence.

  On 1/24/2017 at 4:13 AM, J Francho said:

 

No, but I think I know what Catt might be getting at.

I'm color blind to blue and blue greens.  I can't really tell turquoise from a teal, or blue green.  They all look like various "blue" to me.  Are they different?  Yes.  Measurable? Yes.  Different to my pea brain? Not really.

 

Ya even rejected this

 

Dude ya sinking rapidly


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 

"Matching the hatch" for bass seems kinda silly to me.  So what if my 6XD is painted to look very similar to a threadfin shad...its fat profile, huge plastic lip, and weird wobble don't really match the bait it's attempting to mimic and these attributes would likely be more "noticeable" to the fish.  I think it's more of a confidence thing than a color thing.  I choose very few colors when I fish.  Those colors are chosen because I like the way they look in the water, not because I think the fish can see them better.  If I have confidence in a bait, I use it more, which means I catch more with it. 

I've seen way too many bass eat way too many dumb things to think they care that much about color, but there's also no harm in thinking they do.  Whatever gives you the most confidence will ultimately get you the most bites!


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

I firmly believe that once your lure has been noticed by a game fish, the importance of color falls thru the cracks.

No color is going to enhance her appetite, and no color is going to take it away.

To obtain valid confirmation that one color is superior to another color would require a team of studious,        

unbiased technicians. The individual fisherman is the last person on earth you want on that assignment   :)

 

The individual angler has only 'one' choice. In the midst of a scorching bite he must forget about hitting home-runs

and diligently change the color of the 'same' lure. If color is indeed a compelling factor then the fishing action

will immediately drop off. Okay, let’s pretend that the action does in fact drop off, no problem,

now we simply return to the original color and the action should be magically restored (ahem ahem).

The more times we're able to switch back-&-forth between colors and the more times we're able to

curtail and restore the fishing action with color alone, the greater the credibility of our argument. 

I’m not just whistling Dixie here, because I've conducted this exact exercise on numerous occasions.

So the next time you hear me berating the importance of color, you'll know that it wasn’t something I heard

and it wasn't something I read.

Roger

 


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I saw a video of two guys chumming the water with three very large bags of bright red, orange crayfish.  Thousands of these bright colored crayfish were dumped in a matter of seconds.  They then took red rattle traps and caught bass on every cast.  The only similarity the rattletrap had to the crayfish was color. I would bet almost any bright orange lure would have worked during the height of the feeding frenzy.  I would assume once the frenzy stopped and the crayfish were hiding on the bottom, a jig or other lure that imitated the same shape and movement of the crayfish would work better than a lure that had the wrong action  but was the right color.  Of course it wouldn't hurt to have some orange craws on the jig.   I always try to match size, action, and color of the forage the bass on feeding on.  If that doesn't work I will change to a lure with a different size and action first, then different colors until the fish tell me what they like.   


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I have never caught bass fast enough to run any experiment that was very scientific.  I have tested color on silver salmon in Alaska many times where I'm sure color was the only factor that made a difference in the fishing.  Silver salmon will come into rivers and stage in pools by the thousands.  There are many times, when they will only hit a pink lure.  At first I would catch them on anything pink.  After  catching a few dozen the bite would slow down on certain lures, and retrieve styles, eventually I would find the one that worked best.  Taking the same best lure, and changing to another color the bite would stop.  Going back to pink I could catch them every cast again.  I have done this over and over again for 20 years.  I don't know why they like pink but they do.  I have had the same experience fly fishing for trout during a hatch on  a river.  Most of the time size and drift are the most important factor in matching flies, but I have seen color be more important, than anything else.    Like I said I never have bass fishing so good that I can experiment this way, but I would assume there are times, when color is the biggest factor for bass.  I guess it never hurts to try a different color.   


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 6:41 AM, RoLo said:

I firmly believe that once your lure has been noticed by a game fish, the importance of color falls thru the cracks.

No color is going to enhance her appetite, and no color is going to take it away.

To obtain valid confirmation that one color is superior to another color would require a team of studious,        

unbiased technicians. The individual fisherman is the last person on earth you want on that assignment   :)

 

The individual angler has only 'one' choice. In the midst of a scorching bite he must forget about hitting home-runs

and diligently change the color of the 'same' lure. If color is indeed a compelling factor then the fishing action

will immediately drop off. Okay, let’s pretend that the action does in fact drop off, no problem,

now we simply return to the original color and the action should be magically restored (ahem ahem).

The more times we're able to switch back-&-forth between colors and the more times we're able to

curtail and restore the fishing action with color alone, the greater the credibility of our argument. 

I’m not just whistling Dixie here, because I've conducted this exact exercise on numerous occasions.

So the next time you hear me berating the importance of color, you'll know that it wasn’t something I heard

and it wasn't something I read.

Roger

 

But Roger that's Anecdotal Evidence ;)


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

None of you who argu against bass having a color preference have been out fished by a partner using the exact same tackle, brand and size soft plastic as you are using. When your partner gives the hot color you start instantly catching bass. The only difference being the right color at that time. This isn't an isolated event it happens often where I fish for bass.

As Catt says color matters when it matters, otherwise it doesn't matter and I agree.

Catt also asked if we ever looked at a live blue gill under water, try looking closely at a live crawdads in clear glass jar full of water. What at first looks like a brown shell is made up of a dot matrix of several colors that our eye blinds into brown. Look at alive Canadian nightcrawlers that look brown, they also have a neon blue sheen that dissapears when dead.

Bass have big eyes for a reason, they help them to survive by seeing prey under all lighting conditions along with their other highly developed senses.

Tom

 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 6:41 AM, RoLo said:

I firmly believe that once your lure has been noticed by a game fish, the importance of color falls thru the cracks.

No color is going to enhance her appetite, and no color is going to take it away.

To obtain valid confirmation that one color is superior to another color would require a team of studious,        

unbiased technicians. The individual fisherman is the last person on earth you want on that assignment   :)

 

The individual angler has only 'one' choice. In the midst of a scorching bite he must forget about hitting home-runs

and diligently change the color of the 'same' lure. If color is indeed a compelling factor then the fishing action

will immediately drop off. Okay, let’s pretend that the action does in fact drop off, no problem,

now we simply return to the original color and the action should be magically restored (ahem ahem).

The more times we're able to switch back-&-forth between colors and the more times we're able to

curtail and restore the fishing action with color alone, the greater the credibility of our argument. 

I’m not just whistling Dixie here, because I've conducted this exact exercise on numerous occasions.

So the next time you hear me berating the importance of color, you'll know that it wasn’t something I heard

and it wasn't something I read.

Roger

 

 

Great post.  While I agree with the assessment, I’d add that proving color preferences don’t ever exist might be just as difficult, for similar reasons.

 

When there’s a scorching bite the reliability of the experiment you described goes up, because the difference between “gettin’ em” and “not gettin’ em” is clear.  However, only being able to effectively test for color preference during a scorching bite could introduce tremendous bias.  Maybe that test only shows that color isn’t important during a scorching bite.

 

Hypothetical example:


Let’s say on a really tough day, there’s an unknown ‘magic’ color that would up your odds of a bite by 20%.  If you threw the “wrong” color all day in your chosen locations, you’d catch 5 fish.  If you spent the same day, same locations, same casts, etc, throwing the “right” color, you’d have caught 6.

 

At the end of a day like that, with all the variables involved, how could anyone hope to deduce the “right” color?  Tweaking any number of other aspects of your day (like location or presentation) could have had a much more dramatic impact on your success, even if you stuck with the “wrong” color.  Never mind that the “right” color could be a moving target, changing throughout the day, by location, or even between different fish (personal preferences :D).

 

Even though it might be undetectable through the ‘experience’ of fishermen, a 20% preference is pretty significant.  If we actually had convincing proof that such a preferences existed and we could predict them, we’d be nuts not to tie on the “right” color.  Anglers go a lot further for advantages much less significant (I’m looking at you, 500 dollar reels ;))


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 

Everyone on this thread who says color doesn't matter still has his favorite colors.


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 7:31 AM, Catt said:

But Roger that's Anecdotal Evidence ;)

 

True Tom, it's 'anecdotal evidence' to the second-party, but 'circumstantial evidence’ to me.    :)

 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 5:57 AM, Catt said:

 

Done did!

 

Clarify please, with actual example of a claim I've made.  What have I said that you disagree with, and why do you disagree? 

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 5:57 AM, Catt said:

That's in response to your nonbelieve of  situational specific lure color preference because it's anecdotal evidence.

 

That's not at all my 'belief'.  Where have I said that I don't think situation-specific color preference is plausible?

 

My stance is that if situation-specific lure preferences exist, they exist without contradicting the physics of light penetration in water.  That's it.  

 

I disagree with:

 

1.  Your dispute of the proven and documented behavior of light in water based on your fishing experience: "For whatever reason bass round here disagree"  (referring to a chart showing light absorption in water)

 

2.  Your insistence that light can only be measured "as seen through human eyes & interpreted by the brain."

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 5:57 AM, Catt said:

Ya even rejected this

 

(referring to Francho's color-blindness post)

 

I don't reject Francho's color blindness at all lol, read my response again. 

 

 


fishing user avatarJar11591 reply : 

Do bass, with no fisherman involved, reject an actual feeding opportunity based on the color of that food? 

 

For example, will a bass reject eating a real live yellow perch due to its "perch pattern"? Obviously perch are common forage for bass, but are there situations where something like this would happen? 

 

Just something worth considering in this debate.

 

Lots of good arguements on either side going on. 


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

As far as the original question, why bass would like dark lures in clear water I have no idea.   I am certain there are  times when color will be the difference from getting bit and going home skunked.  Any one who hasn't experienced this needs to fish more.   I do agree most of the time retrieve, size and action can be more important, but color does matter.


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 7:47 AM, fissure_man said:

Hypothetical Example:


Let’s say on a really tough day, there’s an unknown ‘magic’ color that would up your odds of a bite by 20%.  If you threw the “wrong” color all day in your chosen locations, you’d catch 5 fish.  If you spent the same day, same locations, same casts, etc, throwing the “right” color, you’d have caught 6.

 

At the end of a day like that, with all the variables involved, how could anyone hope to deduce the “right” color?  Tweaking any number of other aspects of your day (like location or presentation) could have had a much more dramatic impact on your success, even if you stuck with the “wrong” color.  Never mind that the “right” color could be a moving target, changing throughout the day, by location, or even between different fish (personal preferences :D).

 

Even though it might be undetectable through the ‘experience’ of fishermen, a 20% preference is pretty significant.  If we actually had convincing proof that such a preferences existed and we could predict them, we’d be nuts not to tie on the “right” color.  Anglers go a lot further for advantages much less significant (I’m looking at you, 500 dollar reels ;))

================================================================

 

I like your attack on the subject, which you’ve given more thought than the average bear.

To me at least, thinking ‘out-of-the-box’ is thinking smack in the center of the box.

 

The big problem I have however, is descriptors like 'right color' and 'wrong color',

as though their existence is a foregone conclusion (nuh-uh). On the contrary, I do not buy into that hypothesis.

In keeping with your 20% preference analogy, I'd offer the following scenario:

In the same lake on the same day, 80% of the anglers are throwing ‘Watermelon Red’ jelly worms,

while 20% are throwing 'Black Grape' jelly worms. At the end of the day,

if Black Grape  accounted for 22% of the bass harvested, it outperformed Watermelon Red.

 

Roger


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 

Fishing is all a game of probabilities (at least, that's how I view it). On any given cast, with any given bait, you either will or won't get bit. Over the course of a day, if you can stack a few more probabilities in your favor (increase specific probability rates or percentages), you should end up with a more productive day. There are a lot of variables at play, all with their own probability. Color tends to rate fairly low on my list of probabilities. What do I mean by that?

 

In another thread I mentioned that one of the 2 primary factors in why I own/throw whatever colors I have in my box for any given bait is largely based around what is pretty much "proven" as a standard color option. So, a black and blue jig is almost a universal thing. A green pumpkin soft plastic is too, as are things like shad or crawfish colored crankbaits, a white and chartreuse spinnerbait, or a black or white buzzbait. I'm sure you can name a few others. Day in and day out, those colors get bit most everywhere in the country. As such, I tend to have one of those standard color patterns tied on when I'm fishing, and I rarely change during the course of a day.

 

But here's a logical way to think about lure color based on probabilities.  If you're not getting bit, it's probably not because of color, but it also might not hurt your chances if you changed. Things can't get worse, right, so do as you like - I likely wouldn't change myself. I'd rather change locations, baits, depth, speed, etc. before changing color to try and increase my probabilities.

 

On the other hand, if you are getting at least a few bites, changing color could go one of several ways - your bite rate might not change at all (neutral), or it could get better, but it also could get worse, and you actually might stop getting bit. In this case, which is likely the most common scenario for most while out fishing (getting a few bites now and then), I don't gamble and change my probabilities in that regard because there is a worse outcome if I'm wrong.

 

Finally, if I'm with someone throwing a similar bait (different color) and they're getting bit and I'm not, then it doesn't hurt to change to whatever color they are using because your probabilities will likely either stay the same or go up - very little downside to changing color in that case.

 

So that's my take on the matter. To stick with the OPs question; why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water? I say - Contrast. About everything swimming in the water (or tossed by anglers) throws shade/has a dark underside no matter what its actual color. Bass eyes are built to best see forward and upward. As such, black is a universal base color in my world - YMMV B)

 

-T9


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Those of you have Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass can read the chapter Finding the Right Color, including page 195  Beyond the Visible.

Tom


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 8:30 AM, fissure_man said:

I disagree with:

 

1.  Your dispute of the proven and documented behavior of light in water based on your fishing experience: "For whatever reason bass round here disagree"  (referring to a chart showing light absorption in water)

 

2.  Your insistence that light can only be measured "as seen through human eyes & interpreted by the brain."

 

 

Never disagreed with the science!

 

Disagreed with your repeated insistence no eye or brain is required to understand colors

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

Reference "deer & blaze orange"

 

We see the braze orange but to the deer blaze orange does not exist, what they actually see is unclear.

 

Yes the colors of the spectrum do not change but each individual's eyes & brain interprets them slightly different. This proven science can not be discounted either.


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 7:37 PM, Catt said:

 

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

 

 

 .The   fact is   once  light waves cease to exist   then   " They do not exist".    No ifs or buts . 

 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 7:37 PM, Catt said:

 

All the science you reference is as seen through human eyes & interpreted by a human brain!

 

 

This is the crux of your argument, and it's fundamentally flawed.

 

If scientists were only able to study and measure light "as seen by human eyes & interpreted by a human brain," how could they study UV light, or the UV reflectivity of objects?  How could they study or learn anything about x rays, radio waves, microwaves, infrared, etc.  None of these are visible to humans, yet we understand them very well and leverage that understanding constantly in our daily lives.

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 7:37 PM, Catt said:

Yes the colors of the spectrum do not change but each individual's eyes & brain interprets them slightly different. This proven science can not be discounted either.

 

I agree fully with this, which you can see in numerous posts throughout this thread.  I brought up the deer example to illustrate the point.  In normal daylight, we're (presumably) better able to differentiate 'oranges' than deer are.  But if the red/orange/yellow light that lets us see that particular "orange" is taken away, we're not any better off than the deer, even though our eyes are different.  In other words, it doesn't matter how well an organism can 'see' a color, if there's none of that color around to be seen.   

 

 


fishing user avatarmllrtm79 reply : 

DEZ CAUGHT IT!!!

whoops, thought that ended internet disagreements... 


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 7:33 AM, WRB said:

None of you who argu against bass having a color preference have been out fished by a partner using the exact same tackle, brand and size soft plastic as you are using. When your partner gives the hot color you start instantly catching bass. The only difference being the right color at that time. This isn't an isolated event it happens often where I fish for bass.

As Catt says color matters when it matters, otherwise it doesn't matter and I agree.

Catt also asked if we ever looked at a live blue gill under water, try looking closely at a live crawdads in clear glass jar full of water. What at first looks like a brown shell is made up of a dot matrix of several colors that our eye blinds into brown. Look at alive Canadian nightcrawlers that look brown, they also have a neon blue sheen that dissapears when dead.

Bass have big eyes for a reason, they help them to survive by seeing prey under all lighting conditions along with their other highly developed senses.

Tom

 

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)


fishing user avatarmllrtm79 reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 9:49 PM, RichF said:

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.

 

I've been outfished by partners with the same color of the same bait, there are too many variables involved to even speculate... Front of the boat vs back of the boat, better presentation, more accurate casts, hitting a stump an extra time from a different angle, floro vs mono, 3/8 jig with 50 strands vs 1/2 jig with 45, red hook vs black, 21" floro leader vs 17", I had my mouth twisted wrong, I was hungover, confidence. Wrong flavor Gatorade maybe? 


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

1i95dk.jpg


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 9:56 PM, mllrtm79 said:

 

I've been outfished by partners with the same color of the same bait, there are too many variables involved to even speculate... Front of the boat vs back of the boat, better presentation, more accurate casts, hitting a stump an extra time from a different angle, floro vs mono, 3/8 jig with 50 strands vs 1/2 jig with 45, red hook vs black, 21" floro leader vs 17", I had my mouth twisted wrong, I was hungover, confidence. Wrong flavor Gatorade maybe? 

 

That's a big one right there for sure! HAHA!  You're absolutely right.  My father and I fish have fished so many times together and have dealt with all those same variables you mentioned with mixed results.  Sometimes he catches 20 flippin a black/blue jig on 50lb braid and I catch 17 flippin a green pumpkin jig on 20lb flouro.  Did he get more bites bc the bass wanted black/blue or bc his line was different?  I don't think so.  I bet he just happen to accidentally toss his jig in front of a few more fish.  

 

 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/16/2017 at 2:05 AM, Geebo said:

Hi there....

 

So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep.  The last couple of years I switched up colors and started using junebug, PB&J and black/blue and out fished all of my friends.  It seems counter intuitive that dark colors would work so well on a clear lake regardless if it's sunny or overcast. I am hoping to gain some insights on why this is happening and any recommendations on other lures/colors to use.

 

Thank you!

 

Go back to the original post!

 

Why would Geebo use the term "counter intuitive"?

 

Probably because he read a chart like the one below which shows dark color are nor preferred in his water/sky conditions but the bass said no I like dark colors in the conditions!

 

This tell me the do not agree with the color chart!

soft-plastic-color-selector-chart.jpg

  On 1/24/2017 at 8:57 PM, fissure_man said:

 

This is the crux of your argument, and it's fundamentally flawed.

 

If scientists were only able to study and measure light "as seen by human eyes & interpreted by a human brain," how could they study UV light, or the UV reflectivity of objects?  How could they study or learn anything about x rays, radio waves, microwaves, infrared, etc.  None of these are visible to humans, yet we understand them very well and leverage that understanding constantly in our daily lives.

 

 

Which creature did the research if not human?


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

Catt ,  oh never mind . :rolleyes:

 


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 9:49 PM, RichF said:

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)

I have. Here's a specific example: My local reservoir has gold shiners as the main forage. A gold Rat L Trap outperforms others. I've been the guy in the boat who couldn't buy a bite on chrome, red or bluegill colors. And I've been the guy who caught more by using the gold color. My buddy and I have tried this over and over. Gold significantly outperforms other colors, and usually, it skunks other colors. The only difference seems to be that slight variations on the colors seem to work. ie: chartreuse seems to work OK in cloudy conditions, but the reds, craws and bluegills don't work. And the big gals know the difference. I've done enough testing to stop wasting my time with those other colors. Sure, this is anecdotal and local, but an empty side of the livewell is my visual evidence.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 10:10 PM, Catt said:

 

Go back to the original post!

 

Why would Geebo use the term "counter intuitive"?

 

Probably because he read a chart like the one below which shows dark color are nor preferred in his water/sky conditions but the bass said no I like dark colors in the conditions!

 

This tell me the do not agree with the color chart!

 

 

Catt, that is a color selection chart, not a chart illustrating properties of light.  The jump from “red light is preferentially absorbed by pure water” to “red lures won’t catch bass in water deeper than XX feet” is not a claim that I’ve made.  Here’s a relevant quote, and there are numerous others in the thread:

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 

When you see a 400 ton jet fly overhead, do you say “Gee, that thing never read the book on gravity!"  ??

Or do you rationalize that there’s probably an explanation for what you’re witnessing that doesn’t contradict well-established scientific theories, even if you don’t know what that explanation is.

 

  On 1/24/2017 at 10:10 PM, Catt said:

Which creature did the research if not human?

 

Humans did all the research, I'm pretty sure :D

 

If I did a study that concluded something like: "the mass of this rock is 40 kg"  -  would you dispute the conclusion because I'm not a rock?

 

lol


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

Bass have eyes that can see color for a reason.  I would assume that reason would be to help the fish find, identify, and catch it's prey.  Also color might help a bass avoid a predator.  If they don't use their color vision, why are they able to see color?  It only makes sense to me, that if the fish can see color, I should try to find out what color they prefer on a given water and day.    


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 10:41 PM, the reel ess said:

I have. Here's a specific example: My local reservoir has gold shiners as the main forage. A gold Rat L Trap outperforms others. I've been the guy in the boat who couldn't buy a bite on chrome, red or bluegill colors. And I've been the guy who caught more by using the gold color. My buddy and I have tried this over and over. Gold significantly outperforms other colors, and usually, it skunks other colors. The only difference seems to be that slight variations on the colors seem to work. ie: chartreuse seems to work OK in cloudy conditions, but the reds, craws and bluegills don't work. And the big gals know the difference. I've done enough testing to stop wasting my time with those other colors.

 

Well if every other variable was accounted for (same line, exact same reel retrieve speed, same amount of casts in the same spots, exact weather conditions, time of year, time of day, etc, etc) between you both, then you could be right in your given situation.  Sounds like you gave the other colors their fair shot.  Maybe SC bass aren't quite as color blind as their NY cousins.  


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 9:49 PM, RichF said:

 

I've been outdone by partners with different baits, never different colors of the same bait.  When the bass are biting, they're biting.  Maybe they're just color blind in NY:)

Big difference in aggressive behavior between Florida strain LMB and northern strain LMB and smallmouth bass.

Tom


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 10:48 PM, fissure_man said:

 

Catt, that is a color selection chart, not a chart illustrating properties of light.  

 

Explanations of bass color preference are conjecture (still interesting, but we should take them with a few grains of salt).  Measurements of light underwater are not.  Measuring and understanding light underwater is a step toward piecing together what bass “see.”

 

 

Color selection charts were put together by someone using their understanding of "measuring & understanding light under water"  but the bass disagreed with it & bit Geebo's dark colors.

 

Every time we think we understand bass behaviors scientifically the bass tend to throw back in our face!


fishing user avatarthe reel ess reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 11:00 PM, RichF said:

 

Well if every other variable was accounted for (same line, exact same reel retrieve speed, same amount of casts in the same spots, exact weather conditions, time of year, time of day, etc, etc) between you both, then you could be right in your given situation.  Sounds like you gave the other colors their fair shot.  Maybe SC bass aren't quite as color blind as their NY cousins.  

We've done this year round for a few years. In fact, my buddy tried a chartreuse last time out. He caught one dink and I caught 3 keepers on the gold, including a 3 lb. Our setups are very similar in that we both use 15# Big Game and try to reel as low as possible without pulling up weeds on every cast. I just think they're very keyed in on shiners in this spot and that's thee difference. If they want a shiner more than anything else, I see no need to offer a craw or bluegill. To be fair, red doesn't seem to work well for me anywhere around here. Brown craw colors do OK.

 

My dad and i noticed the same between real shad pattern and silver/black foil pattern Shad Raps of the same size. We got into schoolie stripers on them and he caught two to my one. That was OK because I was still catching. I probably should have experimented, but that's hard to make yourself do when they're fast and furious.

 

This, to me, would be like dropping a goldfish down to stripers feeding on shad. You might get bites, but can you expect equal results? I'd rather offer them an artificial shad imitation than another species. If there's a frenzy on, sure, they'll bite anything.

 

One area that I feel color matters the least is in topwaters where the fish see very little color. maybe it matters in gin clear water, but not most places I fish.

 

PS: This is a good discussion. 


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 11:18 PM, Catt said:

 

Color selection charts were put together by someone using their understanding of "measuring & understanding light under water"  but the bass disagreed with it & bit Geebo's dark colors.

 

Every time we think we understand bass behaviors scientifically the bass tend to throw back in our face!

 

Hooray! I think we’re about to agree :) 

 

The cause for ‘surprise’ or ‘unexpected result’ is a misunderstanding of bass behavior, not a misunderstanding of light. 

 

Studies of light are independent of bass behavior, and though it would be awesome to develop a unifying, comprehensive understanding of bass vision, color preference (or lack of preference), and light behavior, we don’t currently possess all the pieces of that puzzle.

 

My argument is simply that the ‘light’ piece is pretty well understood, and any unifying theory should not contradict it.   


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 11:33 PM, the reel ess said:

We've done this year round for a few years. In fact, my buddy tried a chartreuse last time out. He caught one dink and I caught 3 keepers on the gold, including a 3 lb. Our setups are very similar in that we both use 15# Big Game and try to reel as low as possible without pulling up weeds on every cast. I just think they're very keyed in on shiners in this spot and that's thee difference. If they want a shiner more than anything else, I see no need to offer a craw or bluegill. To be fair, red doesn't seem to work well for me anywhere around here. Brown craw colors do OK.

 

My dad and i noticed the same between real shad pattern and silver/black foil pattern Shad Raps of the same size. We got into schoolie stripers on them and he caught two to my one. That was OK because I was still catching. I probably should have experimented, but that's hard to make yourself do when they're fast and furious.

 

This, to me, would be like dropping a goldfish down to stripers feeding on shad. You might get bites, but can you expect equal results? I'd rather offer them an artificial shad imitation than another species. If there's a frenzy on, sure, they'll bite anything.

 

One area that I feel color matters the least is in topwaters where the fish see very little color. maybe it matters in gin clear water, but not most places I fish.

 

PS: This is a good discussion. 

 

I agree this is a good discussion.  This is the kind of stuff that makes fishing so unique and so awesome!  Everyone has so many different experiences on the water that lead them to so many different conclusions.  There is always so much to talk about.  

 

There were times in the past when I'd question whether or not color mattered.  Like I've mentioned before about jig fishing with my dad, sometimes he catches a few more, sometimes I do.  I used to think that color could have been the reason because it was the only noticeable difference.  After many years and countless outings together, I'd say we're about even in numbers and quality.  That has lead me to the conclusion that the color of our jigs, in the waters we fish, don't matter.  

 

Your experiences led you to a different conclusion and that's great.  You're having success on the water with baits/colors you've developed confidence in and that's what really matters.  I think everyone here can at least agree to one thing...we'll never be able to get a true answer to this question.  Both viewpoints are as right as they are wrong:)     

 

 


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/24/2017 at 6:54 AM, king fisher said:

I saw a video of two guys chumming the water with three very large bags of bright red, orange crayfish.  Thousands of these bright colored crayfish were dumped in a matter of seconds.  They then took red rattle traps and caught bass on every cast.  The only similarity the rattletrap had to the crayfish was color. I would bet almost any bright orange lure would have worked during the height of the feeding frenzy.  ...

Here's an interesting story. I came into a feeding frenzy of big channel cats on wind-blown banks. They were crushing the chartreuse-pearl colored crank I was throwing. After catching several and puzzling about it, I decided to keep one for dinner. Upon inspection, that cats belly was packed with Russian Olive fruits. Piles of them were blown in concentration on wind-blown shores and the cats were stuffing themselves. My crank looked and acted nothing like them but, apparently, it was close enough. Now, cats aren't as visually oriented as bass are, but it shows what motivation can mean.

 

I've come to the idea that (educated) bass are darn difficult to fool with artificial lures. Match-the-hatch is a tall order in my experience. Lures just don't look or act like prey, except in (mostly) fleeting instances. Those instances are what we should target. To that end, conditions that mask the fake-ness of lures weigh in heavy.

 

My main "color" plan is to either make them visible or obscure them, when I think it matters. One of the early empirically derived decisions I made early on was that translucent worms outproduced opaques in high visibility conditions. Is this a solid "rule"? No, there are too many potential variables, not the least of which are angling related and tell us little about what fish are seeing and thinking about lure color.

 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

The reason I want those of you who have In Pursuit of Giant Bass to read Bill Murphy's thoughts on finding the right color is I have a great deal of respect for him. Bill states that he suspects there is a good chance that bass can decipher colors that lie in the infrared and ultraviolet ranges. If you go into infrared there are a lot of colors our eyes cannot detect. But if you find these colors with black light , fluorcents and radiation. Colors can be created from many things that will fluoresce under normal or artificial light. Radiation from the sun can fluoresce certain colors we can't see. During Bill's dental ceramist work he made teeth that not only fluoresce under black light but under natural light as well. 

Bill suspected that the old lead pigment that fluoresce under normal light that we can't see maybe the reason some lures work better than others of the same color. This may also support why Eppinger's Daredivle lures had a problem when changing paint vendors.

Bill stated the whole subject of color perception is fascinating. Bass are truly amazing creatures and more complicated  and sensitive than we like to believe. Every time I read an article about someone who thinks thet have bass figured out, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the farfter you seem to be from getting to the bottom of it all.

I wish Bill had lived to develope his theories further, fascinating man  and phenomial bass angler.

Tom


fishing user avatarww2farmer reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 1:48 AM, WRB said:

. Every time I read an article about someone who thinks thet have bas figured outa, I just shake my head and snicker because the more you dig into this sport the farfter you seem to be from getting to the bottom of it all.

Tom

We finally agree on something............anyone who thinks they know it all, knows nothing.

 

I am confident that I know how to catch a bass on the waters I fish, I am also 100% certain that I am worlds away from being an "expert" on anything. When you close the book and your mind on learning anything else about this great sport you take great steps backwards.


fishing user avatar.ghoti. reply : 

The bottom line is, you can catch fish on dark color baits in crystal clear water because the bass don't read the same propaganda we read.


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I can't think of a time that I could say with 100% certainty that color was the main factor in catching or not catching bass.  I can say that with at least 10 other sport fish species, both fresh and salt water I have had numerous times, when it was by far the biggest factor, and some situations, where it was the only significant factor. I think any predator on land or water that can see color will use that color vision to their advantage.

       If a person were to spend a day shooting orange clay pigeons, that were extremely fast and hard to hit but was told, do not shoot any tennis balls launched out of the say thrower.  After and hour of shooting orange clays they throw out an orange tennis ball the same size and at the same speed.  I would bet that 9 out of ten people will shoot the tennis ball.  If the ball had been yellow, I would bet that 9 out of 10 would not shoot.  If the clays were all different colors, I'm sure that the shooter would try and key in on the shape and flight characteristics, and color would not matter at all.  I'm also certain, that it would be more difficult to spot the shape difference, making the person delay his shot, causing the hit percentage to go down.  Translated to the fish, he fails to catch his prey more often. If the tennis balls were twice the size and bounced on the ground rather than thrown in the air, than of course color would not matter at all. ( Crayfish on the bottom as apposed to bait fish near the surface).  My point being, it is hard for a bass to catch his food.  He will use any of many methods to identify and catch his prey.  Sometimes it will be action, the next time it will be size, and yes there will be times it will be color.  If you think color doesn't matter, it's not that it doesn't matter, you just haven't come across the situation where it does yet.


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 

It seems that this discussion was looking for a place to happen, and found a happy home right here   :laughing7:

Before this thread dies of natural causes, I’d like to share a little story that goes back

to the mid-90s when I lived in Georgia. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything,

but it does involve color and it did actually happen, so why not throw it in the mix:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Jerry, a neighbor and good friend invited me to go crappie fishing with him on West Point Lake. He was a guide and an accomplished crappie fisherman. He forewarned me that “color” was key to crappie fishing, which can change at the drop of a hat. I brought two types of grubs along: curly-tail grubs and boot-tail grubs. After seeing the dingy water in Yellowjacket arm, I decided to only use my boot-tail grubs, which produced more tail thump than the ribbon-tail grubs.

 

We both enjoyed a steady pick of crappies that day, but did encounter a few short-lived droughts. Whenever I caught a crappie that ended a doldrum, Jerry never failed to ask: “What color you using, Rog?”. Each time I would answer “Orange”. I was his guest so I was embarrassed to admit that I only brought two colors along: chartreuse curly-tail grubs and orange boot-tail grubs. But since I retired the curly-tail grubs early that morning, “orange” was the only color I was fishing.   

 

At day’s end Jerry commented that I did really good on ‘orange’ and said that I caught more specks than he did. My take was a little different than Jerry’s. I thought we both killed the specks, thanks to his honey hole. In the final analysis, if I did catch 1 or 2 more crappies than Jerry, it was probably due to the time he lost changing lures.

Roger


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Faster moving objects move a lot of water putting out vibrations bass detect first by feeling those vibrations via their lateral line regardless of light conditions. Slower the movement the less water is displaced and fewer vibrations, the bass still detects the moving object at closer distance and usues it's eye sight to determine what the object may be. I believe color becomes a factor when a bass can see the object clearly within it's window of vision, the closer and slower the object is moving the more color becomes a factor for the bass to determine if it's worth striking. No question in my mind bass see very differently then humans do because they live underwater.

When I mention color makes a difference this is based on not occasional observation but consistant experiences. It's common to be fishing with a partner and one or the other starts catching bass on soft plastics. If we are both using 6" Roboworms on identicle rigs for example and using 2 different colors with 1 getting bit constantly, the other not working in the same spots at the same time. You have a choice stay with what you have on, change and find a color or size that may work or change to what color is working. I always offer my partner the same worms I am using when catching bass, sometimes they have the color if not we share and both catch bass. Lots of lures and presentations color, including black and white, makes little difference, soft plastics it can make a big difference.

Tom

 


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 2:51 AM, king fisher said:

If you think color doesn't matter, it's not that it doesn't matter, you just haven't come across the situation where it does yet.

 

In reality, the above entity is only possible for the color-sensitive angler (Am I wrong?).

I believe a better way to reach a bona-fide conclusion is not by comparing colors,

but by comparing a color-insensitive angler to an angler who hangs his hat on color.

The bottom-line is this: "Something is bound to win", BUT, how do you confirm

that it's the same 'something' that made the difference? (therein lies the $million question).

 

For example, you & I are fishing the same lure, in the same boat.

You boat 6 bass and your color is 'green'. I only boat 1 bass and my color is 'red'.

It therefore stands to reason that the color "green" outperformed the color "red".

Not so fast...I wasn't referring to lure color, I was talking about the shirts on our back.

(Something is bound to win)

 

Roger


fishing user avatarJagg reply : 

I can't speak intelligently about this subject like a lot of you guys, but I can give you my couple anecdotes that have made me look at color with more respect. 

 

Buddy and I were fishing a small lake and we were wearing them out on watermelon grubs. We ran out of the watermelon color. Tried green pumpkin, chartreuse, avocado, etc.. bites dwindled to a crawl. Out of desperation I tried a watermelon stick worm and the bite was back on. That put me on notice.

 

Same buddy and I were fishing and I was catching bass on white tubes and blue pearl grubs. My buddy was casting green pumpkin tubes. Middle of winter. Working the same water. I was out fishing him 10 to 1. He switched up colors multiple times even to our new fave watermelon but still no dice. Tied on the white and he started catching them also.

 

As was said earlier in the thread, color can sometimes make or break a trip for crappie. Crappie are not so distant cousins of black bass. Just something to think about.


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I'm sure the fish don't see or care what color of shirt someone is wearing.  I do know they have the ability to see color, and will use that ability to help them survive and grow.  Blind fish can survive and grow old by using other senses.  Same can be said about blind people,  both people and bass that can see, will use their sight to  full advantage.  Animals that don't have the ability to see color do very well, but animals that can see color will certainly use that sense to full advantage.  They don't just use color to find prey they want, but will also use it to not hit a certain prey or lure.  I have many times been catching bass on a certain lure and color, then after catching many fish the bite stops.  First thing I will do is switch colors.  The fish start biting again.  When switching colors doesn't work, I will switch retrieve, then lure and finally find a new place to fish.  Like I said before.   If color didn't matter, bass wouldn't be able to see color.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 6:43 PM, Catt said:

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?

 

Not related to LMB or variable water clarity, but this is a cool video and article:

 

https://www.bassmaster.com/video/why-smallmouth-dark

 

Lots of interesting work coming out of Tufts lab on bass (mainly smallmouth).  The FB page linked in the article has a bunch of neat stuff, in easily digestible format. 


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 6:43 PM, Catt said:

In the world of predator & prey camouflage is essential to survival... We aint talking realtree or mossy oak!

 

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from off colored water?

Y'all ever notice the coloration of a largemouth bass taken from clear water?

 

Which one is darker colored?

 

You can also ask whether the fish was taken deep or shallow.


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 

As anglers, we refer to "color" because it appears to us as an obvious metric for distinction. In some of the examples given, if "color" was truly the difference, it shouldn't matter which brand, size or length of worm you throw, as long as you throw the same "colored" one as your buddy who is getting all the bites. My guess is it's rarely "color" alone that determines why a fish will bite in some instances when that at first appears to be the difference.

 

This is also partly because anything with "color" has a variety of properties or metrics which play a part in how something appears well beyond simple "color." These include things like reflectance, hue, brightness, lightness, luminance, intensity, saturation, absorption, transparency and chroma (among others). Each is a unique and measurable metric of anything with "color." To argue over the importance of "color" without taking into consideration these other components/metrics of "color" seems rather futile and a gross oversimplification of the issue to me. Likewise, trying to take your fishing to a level where those metrics are defined for all your baits seems rather ridiculous, too.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

From the original post "So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep."

 

The coloration of bass caught in clear water will have a darker more pronounced colors than bass caught in off colored water.

 

Would it not stand to reason the bait in clear water would be darker also?

 

Title of the original thread "Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?"


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 11:10 PM, Team9nine said:

As anglers, we refer to "color" because it appears to us as an obvious metric for distinction. In some of the examples given, if "color" was truly the difference, it shouldn't matter which brand, size or length of worm you throw, as long as you throw the same "colored" one as your buddy who is getting all the bites. My guess is it's rarely "color" alone that determines why a fish will bite in some instances when that at first appears to be the difference.

 

This is also partly because anything with "color" has a variety of properties or metrics which play a part in how something appears well beyond simple "color." These include things like reflectance, hue, brightness, lightness, luminance, intensity, saturation, absorption, transparency and chroma (among others). Each is a unique and measurable metric of anything with "color." To argue over the importance of "color" without taking into consideration these other components/metrics of "color" seems rather futile and a gross oversimplification of the issue to me. Likewise, trying to take your fishing to a level where those metrics are defined for all your baits seems rather ridiculous, too.

 

-T9

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.  As long as you have the correct size of lure it wouldn't matter if it was a crankbait, buzbait, spinner, bait, or soft plastic, fished slow or fast, therefore size must not be a  factor?  Obviously this is ridiculous, often times bass will only hit a certain size lure usually but not always the approximate size of the prey they are feeding on. Size, speed, action, color and many other characteristics are all important.  There are times when one is what the bass are using to key in on your lure over others.  Many times color is not high on the list.  There are times, when it is the most important factor.  As far as the original question of why bass would hit dark lures in clear water, I would have to guess it is because the natural prey in that water are dark colored.


fishing user avatarIndianaFinesse reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 12:18 AM, king fisher said:

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.  As long as you have the correct size of lure it wouldn't matter if it was a crankbait, buzbait, spinner, bait, or soft plastic, fished slow or fast, therefore size must not be a  factor?  Obviously this is ridiculous, often times bass will only hit a certain size lure usually but not always the approximate size of the prey they are feeding on. Size, speed, action, color and many other characteristics are all important.  There are times when one is what the bass are using to key in on your lure over others.  Many times color is not high on the list.  There are times, when it is the most important factor.  As far as the original question of why bass would hit dark lures in clear water, I would have to guess it is because the natural prey in that water are dark colored.

I think he's trying to say that there are so many different facets of "color", it is more than just the difference between say black and green pumpkin, that it is impossible to measure and test each facet of color.  Size is likely more important than color, but I think we tend to over complicate lure selection.  Bass just aren't as smart as we sometimes give them credit for.  Fishing is more trying to use something that kinda looks like the real thing, and putting it in the correct place at the correct time.  Why else would a bass eat a pink trick worm?  Nothing in nature looks like that, or many of the other lures we use.  And yet the bass still eat them.  Depth, speed, and location are the big three factors in my opinion.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

@Geebo sorry for highjacking your thread ;)


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 12:18 AM, king fisher said:

This form of logic is ridiculous.  It would be like saying size of the lure is only I quote an obvious metric for distinction.

 

In that case, I will defer to your superior intelligence on the matter ? and ignore your misinterpretation of my point.


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 12:49 AM, IndianaFinesse said:

I think he's trying to say that there are so many different facets of "color", it is more than just the difference between say black and green pumpkin, that it is impossible to measure and test each facet of color.  Size is likely more important than color, but I think we tend to over complicate lure selection.  Bass just aren't as smart as we sometimes give them credit for.  Fishing is more trying to use something that kinda looks like the real thing, and putting it in the correct place at the correct time.  Why else would a bass eat a pink trick worm?  Nothing in nature looks like that, or many of the other lures we use.  And yet the bass still eat them.  Depth, speed, and location are the big three factors in my opinion.

I agree Depth speed and location are the big three factors. If you are not fishing where the fish are than you can't catch them.  My point is color is a factor and can be the biggest factor not only for catching fish, but for a fish to refuse to bite.  Catch fish every day on a bright silver lure, and eventually they wont want to hit a bright silver lure.  Yes fish do eat pink worms that don't look like anything they would eat.  they also hit buzzbaits, that don't look like anything they would eat regardless of color.  Or lures that  are a completely different size than the local prey.  I'm sure more times than not color doesn't make a big difference.  There are also many times I can catch fish on small and large baits, at many different speeds, and actions.  Just makes sense to start with something remotely representing their primary forage, including color.  As far as the different facets of color, or how a bass sees the color, or the science behind light waves in water I have no clue.  I do know that if I'm catching fish on a chartreuse bait, and I switch to a blue one stop catching fish then return to a chartreuse one and start catching fish again, I'm going to like chartreuse that day. 


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 

Let's make this simple guys....bass are going to bite whatever you throw as long as what you throw is placed close to them and they're hungry and/or ticked.  :thumbsup:


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/25/2017 at 11:32 PM, Catt said:

From the original post "So for the past few years I have been fishing on a super clear lake that doesn't allow gas powered engines.  It's not a very deep lake- it's mostly about 8-10 feet, but there's only one small section that 25 feet deep."

 

The coloration of bass caught in clear water will have a darker more pronounced colors than bass caught in off colored water.

 

Would it not stand to reason the bait in clear water would be darker also?

 

Title of the original thread "Why do dark colored plastics catch fish in clear water?"

During the winter our bass go deep to 30'-50' or more in some lakes, the bass are very pale light olive color backs, no pronounced dark lateral line, the Shad also change to light silver/pearl white with light gray backs. The water clarity is clear about 10' to 20' you can see the bottom.

During the summer the same lakes with similar water clarity the bass are darker green coloration, with bright highlites, pronounced dark lateral line, usually in water 3' to 30'.

The Shad are also bright colors with purple/gray backs, chartreuse highlites and pearl white  /silver sides. 

The high % colors tend to be black and dark grape soft plastics work better in the winter, summer nights and in weed cover areas. Translucent smoke and cinnamon with none purple or blue highlites work better during the summer in sparse cover or rocky areas.

It seems when the baitfish get brighter the bass tend to be brighter coloration, the bass using weed cover areas become very dark coloration in the same lakes. 

I always have my black/purple/brown hair jig with pork trailers tied on year around regardless of water clarity or lighting because it puts big bass in the boat for me and doesn't look like any prey our lakes have!

Tom


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 

Too many points to pick just one to respond to :D ...  So I'll add another:

 

Bass coexist with their prey in the same environment.  How often do you think a bass sees a potential prey fish swim by and decides not to attempt to eat it, only to slam the next gaudy, chartreuse buzzbait that cruises overhead?

 

In that scenario, if the angler had chosen to offer a lure that more closely "matched the hatch," would the odds of a bite be decreased?   The actual "hatch" swam by, and was turned down!

 

:D


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Big mistake thinking bass are always active looking for prey sources to attack and eat. Bass are only active about 20% of the time and go through stages of inactivity from very inactive to neutrally active. The prey fish that live and coexist with bass learn to recognize the difference of a active bass and a inactive or they don't survive. When you see baitfish swimming lazy or in no hurry the bass in that area are inactive, panicked bait bass are active. The spinnerbait looks like a panicked bait and can switch the neutral bass into active feeder quickly. 

This has nothing to do with dark color in clear water, everything to do with bass behavior.

Tom


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 10:18 AM, WRB said:

Big mistake thinking bass are always active looking for prey sources to attack and eat.

 

That’s not what I’m suggesting at all, the example I gave is a scenario with a “less active” bass.

 

I think sometimes we reach a little too far or we’re a little too confident in our explanations of “why” a bass bites a lure (or doesn’t).  With so many unknowns, one can come up with a plausible explanation for anything:

 

Inactive bass hits buzzbait: “Bass thought the buzzer was a panicked baitfish, switched on his hunting instinct!”

 

Inactive bass doesn’t hit buzzbait: “Well, that bass was inactive, in no mood to chase down a buzzbait.”

 

Bass hits silver crankbait: “Tricked him!  My crank looks just like all those shad!”

 

Bass hits firetiger crankbait: “That bait stands out, bass couldn’t miss it!”

 

Bass hits dark lure in clear water: “Baitfish are darker in clear water, no-brainer!”

 

 

Maybe these are based in truth, or maybe not.  “Going fishing” is not a controlled enough experiment to prove out many of these ideas.  Not performing effective experiments makes many of these theories self-fulfilling, ie: angler reads online that watermelon is a good choice in clear water, angler uses watermelon lure in clear water, angler catches fish, angler concludes that watermelon is a good color for clear water, angler passes on his knowledge to the next guy.  Maybe junebug would’ve worked just as well that day?

 

For all the drama early in this thread about how speculation around bass perception is unscientific, there sure is a lot of speculation going on! (I like it though :D)

 


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 11:04 PM, fissure_man said:

I think sometimes we reach a little too far or we’re a little too confident in our explanations of “why” a bass bites a lure (or doesn’t).  With so many unknowns, one can come up with a plausible explanation for anything.

 

“Going fishing” is not a controlled enough experiment to prove out many of these ideas.  Not performing effective experiments makes many of these theories self-fulfilling...

 

 

I think that about sums it up for me ? I like anecdotal evidence and "experience" as much as anyone. Just realize there can be limitations to that line of reasoning.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

Nothing like constantly catching (big) bass to support theories!

Tom


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 

Nothing like the results of flawed experiments to prop up false conclusions!

 

(in any field)


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 11:44 PM, WRB said:

Nothing like constantly catching (big) bass to support theories!

Tom

 

I agree, and I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on the subject. Just copied a whole series of your posts last week for my archives. Just realize you're one successful big bass angler out of many, and those others all have their theories, too...and when combined, you all don't create one happy Grand Unified Theory of big bass angling.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 12:32 AM, Team9nine said:

 

I agree, and I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on the subject. Just copied a whole series of your posts last week for my archives. Just realize you're one successful big bass angler out of many, and those others all have their theories, too...and when combined, you all don't create one happy Grand Unified Theory of big bass angling.

 

-T9

True, trophy bass anglers are no different than any other angler dedicated to catching the top 1% of the fish population. Trophy bass anglers come in 3 basic groups today; live bait anglers, large size swimbait anglers and general bass lure anglers, I fall in the general lure category, relying on primarily a combination hair jigs with pork rind trailer and large swimbaits. Stopped using live baits in '71.

Growing up and fishing the same deep structure lakes that Bill Murphy did my opinions on bass behavior are similar.

Tom


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 4:58 AM, RichF said:

Let's make this simple guys....bass are going to bite whatever you throw as long as what you throw is placed close to them and they're hungry and/or ticked.  :thumbsup:

It's always nice to make it simple. But, hungry bass don't always bite what we're offering.

 

  On 1/26/2017 at 5:00 AM, WRB said:

 I always have my black/purple/brown hair jig with pork trailers tied on year around regardless of water clarity or lighting because it puts big bass in the boat for me and doesn't look like any prey our lakes have!

Tom

Match the hatch is a tall order IME. I have quite a bit of experience here as a a long-time trout FFer too. It ain't what we're all thinking a lot of the time. Keeps the lure, and fly-tying, industry crankin' though. Glad, cuz I like collecting cool stuff. :)

 

  On 1/27/2017 at 12:32 AM, Team9nine said:

 

I agree, and I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on the subject. Just copied a whole series of your posts last week for my archives. Just realize you're one successful big bass angler out of many, and those others all have their theories, too...and when combined, you all don't create one happy Grand Unified Theory of big bass angling.

 

-T9

Reminds me of all the moon theories out there. What's telling is the variety of moon theories presented by... really top-notch long-time experienced anglers and guides (Doug Hannon, Bill Murphy, Pete Maina, JA Knight, IF staff,...). If you consider them all, every facet of the lunar month is covered. They can't all be right. I especially liked T9's assessment of the Texas ShareLunker data. I ran stats on it and found that 50% of those big bass were caught on 50% of touted key periods in the lunar month (full and new). T9 ran those numbers another way, and found that the largest percentage of big bass catches occurred... on weekends. Do I remember that right Brian?

 

Angling is one lousy sampling method as far as ascertaining those why's. But, luckily we also have observations from many fields and a lot of technology that can shed considerable light (keeping on topic :) ) on probable why's. In the natural sciences there are probability distributions around everything, and what they measure is the diversity inherent in living beings and systems.

 


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 

I do agree that it would be very difficult or impossible to preform a scientific experiment that would determine why a bass hit or not hit a cetain lure.  There are way to many variables to prove beyond any doubt that color had any effect.  As  said before my experience with bass is limited, so I don't have any examples of color being the deciding factor when it come to bass.  As far as other species of game fish, I have many examples where I have had the good fortune to be able to catch fish on almost every cast in clear water where I could watch their reactions to my lure for many days in a row.  I tried my best to limit variables, to the point that I am satisfied with the conclusion that color was the biggest factor in catching that species of fish in that spot on that day. Size, retrieve, and lure action, within reason, didn't seem to make a difference.  Why they liked that color, I could only guess. ( If anyone wants to here details on these fishing experiences, and why I came to these conclusions, send me a personal message.  I'm not going to post any more on this topic because I'm sure many people are getting tired of my posts.)  Most of the time matching the color of the prey was my theory, but obviously it could have been some other reason.  As far as why the originator of this post caught fish in clear water on dark baits, I would guess it was because the bass were used to eating dark baits.  I wouldn't say bait is dark in clear water, and not in dark water.  I have no clue to why some bait is dark while others are light.  I only would guess the bass in this lake at this time were eating  dark prey, therefore liked dark lures.  It could be the dark lures were more visible, I couldn't say.  Because bass do have eyes that can see color, it would only make sense to me, that they use this ability to find prey, determine what they can or can't eat, and ovoid predators.  Obviously they use all of their senses for the same reasons.  It also makes sense to me, which factor is more important would change due to changes in water conditions, type of prey, past experience, age , size of fish, and thousands of other factors.  Many very experience fisherman on this site have never observed a time when they think color mattered to the fish.  They are lucky, they can save lots of money.   


fishing user avatarRatherbfishing reply : 

Color and hue and value don't matter at all-until they do.  Which is why, when a buddy and I are fishing together, I usually use something different than him/her until we can figure out if it does matter or not.


fishing user avatarRichF reply : 
  On 1/26/2017 at 11:04 PM, fissure_man said:

 

That’s not what I’m suggesting at all, the example I gave is a scenario with a “less active” bass.

 

I think sometimes we reach a little too far or we’re a little too confident in our explanations of “why” a bass bites a lure (or doesn’t).  With so many unknowns, one can come up with a plausible explanation for anything:

 

Inactive bass hits buzzbait: “Bass thought the buzzer was a panicked baitfish, switched on his hunting instinct!”

 

Inactive bass doesn’t hit buzzbait: “Well, that bass was inactive, in no mood to chase down a buzzbait.”

 

Bass hits silver crankbait: “Tricked him!  My crank looks just like all those shad!”

 

Bass hits firetiger crankbait: “That bait stands out, bass couldn’t miss it!”

 

Bass hits dark lure in clear water: “Baitfish are darker in clear water, no-brainer!”

 

 

Maybe these are based in truth, or maybe not.  “Going fishing” is not a controlled enough experiment to prove out many of these ideas.  Not performing effective experiments makes many of these theories self-fulfilling, ie: angler reads online that watermelon is a good choice in clear water, angler uses watermelon lure in clear water, angler catches fish, angler concludes that watermelon is a good color for clear water, angler passes on his knowledge to the next guy.  Maybe junebug would’ve worked just as well that day?

 

For all the drama early in this thread about how speculation around bass perception is unscientific, there sure is a lot of speculation going on! (I like it though :D)

 

 

This, this, and more this!

 

 

As for the original post...maybe @Geebo, you're just a better fisherman than your friends.  Maybe you're putting your baits in better places and working them with more precision.  Maybe you're better at actually distinguishing strikes and setting the hook when it needs to be set.  Or....(after re-reading your original post)...maybe you're just using the right baits!  I don't see any indication that you and your friends are all using the same exact baits, differing only in color.  The actual difference could be: you're using a black jig while friend A is using a watermelon senko and friend B is using a white spinnerbait.  

 

It sounds like you're catching them pretty good with what you're doing/using.  As far as new suggestions, keep using the darker colors since you've gained confidence in them, just change up techniques.  If you're throwing a lot of soft plastics, rotate between weightless, texas rigged w/ a weight, carolina rig, or swing/wobble head depending on the depth and cover.  Go to the deep hole and drop shot or drag a big football jig down there.  The possibilities are endless!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 1:01 AM, Paul Roberts said:

 

Reminds me of all the moon theories out there. What's telling is the variety of moon theories presented by... really top-notch long-time experienced anglers and guides (Doug Hannon, Bill Murphy, Pete Maina, JA Knight, IF staff,...). If you consider them all, every facet of the lunar month is covered. They can't all be right. I especially liked T9's assessment of the Texas ShareLunker data. I ran stats on it and found that 50% of those big bass were caught on 50% of touted key periods in the lunar month (full and new). T9 ran those numbers another way, and found that the largest percentage of big bass catches occurred... on weekends. Do I remember that right Brian?

 

Yep. When I analyzed the lunar data, no single day in the entire lunar cycle had less than 10 ShareLunkers caught, but none had more than 16 either. Every lunar day was within just a few fish of any other day and the chart looked like a series of gently rolling hills. The New, Full and last Quarter phases all appeared identical with no significant differences (statistically speaking).

 

When analyzed by day caught,   A Texas study showed Saturday was the day anglers fished most frequently, followed by Sunday and then Friday. Not surprisingly, the greatest number of ShareLunkers were caught on those 3 days in exact order of frequency. Tuesday had the fewest lunkers caught, but it was also the least fished day, so catches of giant bass were basically in direct proportion to effort.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 2:02 AM, Team9nine said:

 

Yep. When I analyzed the lunar data, no single day in the entire lunar cycle had less than 10 ShareLunkers caught, but none had more than 16 either. Every lunar day was within just a few fish of any other day and the chart looked like a series of gently rolling hills. The New, Full and last Quarter phases all appeared identical with no significant differences (statistically speaking).

 

When analyzed by day caught,   A Texas study showed Saturday was the day anglers fished most frequently, followed by Sunday and then Friday. Not surprisingly, the greatest number of ShareLunkers were caught on those 3 days in exact order of frequency. Tuesday had the fewest lunkers caught, but it was also the least fished day, so catches of giant bass were basically in direct proportion to effort.

 

-T9

I agree.  I do not believe Lunar cycles have much of an effect.  Many saltwater anglers I know are crazy over moon phase.  All of the local people I hire as deck hands do not like the full moon.  Every time we have a bad day fishing any where near the full moon.  They blame it on the moon.  If it is a good day of fishing they never give the moon credit, unless it is a new moon.  Theory .    My theory is the fish have to eat every day, full moon or not.  I couldn't believe all the fish in the whole ocean go hungry because of the moon phase.  I started calling everyone one I knew every time a had a good day or a bad day of fishing.  What I found was, every day some boats had great fishing and some had poor regardless of moon phase.  A day I got skunked on a full moon, a friend went one hundred miles south and had the best day of fishing in his career.  I'm sure the moon has some effect, but it is too complicated for me to make any kind of prediction.  Not saying others don't have more knowledge on the effect of the moon than I do. Lakes are smaller, and maybe most of the fish in a lake go on and off a bite at the same time, and the moon has a big effect.  I don't have the experience to say.  I do believe it has little effect, but I could be wrong.   I will keep changing colors both when fishing is slow and when it is fast in all moon phases. Love to experiment. 


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

If you take a look my Cosmic Clock and Bass Behavior chart and read the instruction page you will get an insight into how I think or what thoughts I had 43 years ago. The methods used for coming up with this data we observation, catching lots of big bass and using a Dark analog thermometer to read both the bass body temperature and the water temp at the depth and location those bass were caught, so the temps  are not random. The active periods around the new and full moon were also based on the bass caught, the vast majority of the big bass I catch are pre spawn so the moon phase data reflects the spawn cycle. Would I change the data that was used to make the Cosmic back in 1974...maybe add more on weather and lure color preferences used to catch hundreds of big during the past 40+ years.

Tom

 

                                        


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

Most anglers relate moon phase to night fishing but close to 50 yrs of night fishing & detailed records kept shows preference for moon phase. Even my day time records show no preference to moon phase.

 

Pre-spawn/spawn is not normal assessment

 

That's a dumb Cajun's experience ;)


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 2:02 AM, Team9nine said:

 

Yep. When I analyzed the lunar data, no single day in the entire lunar cycle had less than 10 ShareLunkers caught, but none had more than 16 either. Every lunar day was within just a few fish of any other day and the chart looked like a series of gently rolling hills. The New, Full and last Quarter phases all appeared identical with no significant differences (statistically speaking).

 

When analyzed by day caught,   A Texas study showed Saturday was the day anglers fished most frequently, followed by Sunday and then Friday. Not surprisingly, the greatest number of ShareLunkers were caught on those 3 days in exact order of frequency. Tuesday had the fewest lunkers caught, but it was also the least fished day, so catches of giant bass were basically in direct proportion to effort.

 

-T9

 

Hannon would roll-over in his grave  ;)

 

Roger


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 8:05 AM, RoLo said:

 

Hannon would roll-over in his grave  ;)

 

Roger

 

I know...and I even have two of his books B) but it was a solid, publicly available data set spanning 20 years and 423 bass over 13 pounds back when I analyzed it. Even larger now.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 9:02 AM, Team9nine said:

 

I know...and I even have two of his books B) but it was a solid, publicly available data set spanning 20 years and 423 bass over 13 pounds back when I analyzed it. Even larger now.

 

-T9

 

Let me guess:  "Catch Bass" & "Big Bass Magic"   :dontknow:

The chapter begins on page 121 "There's Magic In The Moon"

 

When I was still living in Jersey, I spent a few years taking scrupulous lunar notes.

I got within a hair's breadth of buying in, then everything fell apart in my hands.

 

Roger

 


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 9:15 AM, RoLo said:

 

Let me guess:  "Catch Bass" & "Big Bass Magic"   :dontknow:

The chapter begins on page 121 "There's Magic In The Moon"

 

When I was still living in Jersey, I spent a few years taking scrupulous lunar notes.

I got within a hair's breadth of buying in, then everything fell apart in my hands.

 

Roger

 

 

Maybe I have three then, because I also have "Doug Hannon's Field Guide for Bass Fishing" :thumbsup3:

 

-T9


fishing user avatarRoLo reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 9:21 AM, Team9nine said:

 

Maybe I have three then, because I also have "Doug Hannon's Field Guide for Bass Fishing" :thumbsup3:

 

-T9

 

You Win!  :thumbsup:

 

Not for nothing, but I seen Doug shortly before his death.

He was fishing the Kissimmee River (not the lake).

It was hard to miss his tow car with the "Snake Lure" wrapper.

 

Roger


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

The late Doug Hannon was making a living in the fishing industry and could fish 7 days a week making his data a lot more detailed. Fishing for me is a hobby, arepspace engineer was my career and could only fish during the week by taking time off. When you take time off to fish you want to choose high percentage days and use high percentage lures. Being a curious person by nature my goal was to determine the high percentage time and location to catch big bass. Trail and error is a good teacher only if you learn from it.

I believe pre spawn is the time to catch the biggest bass in the lake. I choose to believe the 5 day full moon phase to be a high percentage time, so I spend a majority of my time trophy bass at that time, couldn't take off all month only a few days. I choose to use hair jigs with pork rind trailers, big dark colored soft plastic worms and later years big swimbaits because of success catching giant bass. 

The only bass anglers who caught more or bigger bass were a few live bait anglers. I like to be able to move around and not anchor on 1 spot all day. Very few, if any, bass anglers caught more 15 lb+ bass than I have, so it worked for me. Would I have equaled my catches fishing any random days...??? I am retired now and still plan my pre spawn time the same as way I always did.

Tom


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 9:57 AM, WRB said:

The late Doug Hannon was making a living in the fishing industry and could fish 7 days a week making his data a lot more detailed. Fishing for me is a hobby, arepspace engineer was my career and could only fish during the week by taking time off. When you take time off to fish you want to choose high percentage days and use high percentage lures. Being a curious person by nature my goal was to determine the high percentage time and location to catch big bass. Trail and error is a good teacher only if you learn from it.

I believe pre spawn is the time to catch the biggest bass in the lake. I choose to believe the 5 day full moon phase to be a high percentage time, so I spend a majority of my time trophy bass at that time, couldn't take off all month only a few days. I choose to use hair jigs with pork rind trailers, big dark colored soft plastic worms and later years big swimbaits because of success catching giant bass. 

The only bass anglers who caught more or bigger bass were a few live bait anglers. I like to be able to move around and not anchor on 1 spot all day. Very few, if any, bass anglers caught more 15 lb+ bass than I have, so it worked for me. Would I have equaled my catches fishing any random days...??? I am retired now and still plan my pre spawn time the same as way I always did.

Tom

Hard to argue with that kind of success over that many years.  Most of my experience has been with other sport fish.  Big bass don't have to feed every day, so It wouldn't surprise me, if they were more active on a specific moon phase.

Where would you rate moon phase importance compared to water temperature, barometric pressure, rain, sun, wind, and water conditions?  Just curious, what would you consider the perfect day at you favorite lake. 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

@WRB Hannon married money & didn't have to work, made fishing a lot easier.

 

I do believe moon phase plays a roll in pre-spawn/spawn but rest of the year not so much.

 

I don't know if @Paul Roberts or @Team9nine noticed but the bulk of the ShareLunker bass were caught during that time frame.


fishing user avatarWRB reply : 

During pre spawn we have stormy cold fronts every few weeks, unless it's a drought. Don't like to fish in high winds with rain, but light wind and light rain is when I prefer to target big bass. The low light conditions are ideal for sight predators to hunt prey because they have the advantage. When the water column is warming from the low to upper 50's up to 60 degrees the big girls are feeding heavily on high protein prey like crawdads and larger size bait fish like planted rainbow trout. Being a jig, swimbait or live bait fisherman this is prime time. I will be on the water a lot the next 6 weeks.

Tom


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

@WRB yea I know ya keep sending them fronts over here!

Edited by Catt
Operator error

fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 11:12 AM, Catt said:

@WRB Hannon married money & didn't have to work, made fishing a lot easier.

 

I do believe moon phase plays a roll in pre-spawn/spawn but rest of the year not so much.

 

I don't know if @Paul Roberts or @Team9nine noticed but the bulk of the ShareLunker bass were caught during that time frame.

Here's what I had:

 

I lumped full and new bc there was no significant diff between the two.

Here’s the breakdown by month showing % caught +/-3d of full and new moons: 

Oct    50% (6)

Nov   38% (8)

Dec   41% (17)

Jan    31% (45)

Feb   53% (104)

Mar  50% (199)

Apr   25%  (72)


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 11:12 AM, Catt said:

 

I do believe moon phase plays a roll in pre-spawn/spawn but rest of the year not so much.

 

I don't know if @Paul Roberts or @Team9nine noticed but the bulk of the ShareLunker bass were caught during that time frame.

 

That is part by design and part by our failure as anglers. The program was originally set up as Dec - Apr because all they were interested in were spawners they could use for the program. They wouldn't accept any out of season bass.  Then Mark Stevenson caught "Ethel" in November, and they changed the program start date to October. The percentage of Oct-Nov giant bass caught is tiny though compared to the other months, and even worse the rest of the year. Turns out anglers rarely catch giant bass (>13 lbs.) in Texas except during the prespawn/spawn period when they move shallow.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

So Paul & -T9 do y'all think the stats support moon phases or pre-spawn/spawn?

 

-T9 after April the number of anglers on Texas lakes drop by 70%


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 

Well, my stats looked at moon phases +/- 3days full and new through the spawn period. When just looking at that spawn period (Dec-Apr), 50% of the lunar month (+/- 3d of new and full) yielded 40% of the catches. Which leaves 60% caught outside those lunar periods -the other 50% of the lunar month. The best month, for the moon theorist, was Feb when 53% of ShareLunker bass were caught during full/new, leaving 47% caught outside. Not very promising, at least for full or new, or at least counting 3days either side.

 

Now there are other theories out there. I believe Bill Murphy liked the last quarter to full. Pete Maina's ideas considered quarters as well. I think Hannon liked full. And then there's moon up/moon down. I didn't look at those.

 

I have not discounted moon influence on spawning. I have some interesting observations myself over the years, and some actual data taken over 3 seasons. But when you look really closely at something biological, it becomes complicated. I feel I can say this though, that local conditions are the trump card. 


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 12:22 PM, WRB said:

During pre spawn we have stormy cold fronts every few weeks, unless it's a drought. Don't like to fish in high winds with rain, but light wind and light rain is when I prefer to target big bass. The low light conditions are ideal for sight predators to hunt prey because they have the advantage. When the water column is warming from the low to upper 50's up to 60 degrees the big girls are feeding heavily on high protein prey like crawdads and larger size bait fish like planted rainbow trout. Being a jig, swimbait or live bait fisherman this is prime time. I will be on the water a lot the next 6 weeks.

Tom

 Thanks for the information.  All makes sense to me.  Hope you catch lots of big ones in the next 6 weeks.  I might have drive up to Mazatlan next full moon and try to catch a big one.  You reminded me by mentioning fishing with bait.  Wouldn't that be the ultimate form of matching the hatch?  Seems to work for the bait fishermen.  Should work for lure fisherman too.


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/27/2017 at 11:12 PM, Catt said:

So Paul & -T9 do y'all think the stats support moon phases or pre-spawn/spawn?

 

-T9 after April the number of anglers on Texas lakes drop by 70%

 

Nope to moon phases - and there are a few other studies that back that up. I simply think the big fish are more vulnerable to normal angling pressure at that time of year due to them having to come shallow and spawn, and some anglers are simply better at patterning that vulnerability, or at least taking advantage of it, regardless of actual moon phase.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 

Paul & -T9, my thoughts are it ain't so much about moon phase as it is about a time frame or period of time.

December full moon to January full is the start of early pre-spawn. January full moon to February full moon is pre-spawn. February full moon to March/April full moon.

One must also consider is the full moon early in the month or later in the month.

 

Then we gotta add Tom's cold fronts ;)


fishing user avatarHeron reply : 

Was reading Homer Circle recently and he favored dark colors in clear water, and light colors in dark waters. 

 

Interesting


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 2:06 AM, Heron said:

Was reading Homer Circle recently and he favored dark colors in clear water, and light colors in dark waters. 

 

Interesting

Ah... back on topic. Although the similarity between astronomical events and lure color is not lost on me -both come down to belief, which for me lies somewhere between knowing and guessing.

 

I'm wondering what "colors" were available when Homer decided on that. I now think as much in terms of opaque vs translucent, as hue.

 

My "killer" worm when I was a kid was the Jelly Worm in black. I'd tremble when I tied one on. Still do, in fact. :)

But then I had my black worms fail miserably under bright blue skies and clear water. I then went to grape, blue, and red, which were translucent and they worked! For a time there (when my budget was slimmer) I went with "Black Grape", an attempt at a catch-all (and not a bad one) -kinda the Green Pumpkin of it's day.

 

All that said, I'm still a skeptic (you get that beaten into you as a scientist). I still choose the bait that "makes me tremble" -and that now varies with conditions. Under high vis conditions, I tremble most with slim straight-tail translucents. I still tend to gravitate toward purplish ones, even though bass have been shown, in both physiological and behavioral studies, to have a more difficult time discerning short wavelengths (blue on out) compared to long (red on in).

 

Best I can "figger" at this point.


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 3:03 AM, Paul Roberts said:

I still tend to gravitate toward purplish ones, even though bass have been shown, in both physiological and behavioral studies, to have a more difficult time discerning short wavelengths (blue on out) compared to long (red on in).

 

Best I can "figger" at this point.

 

My all time favorite color is Cinnamon Pepper Neon Junebug Laminate... Camouflage!

 

I've caught bass from Brownsville Tx to Inverness Fl & from the Gulf Coast to mid-Ohio. It works in every moon phase, water clarity, sky conditions, & season.

 

The majority of my double digit bass come on camo!


fishing user avatarChoporoz reply : 

I don't think it matters, but as someone said above, if you ask me, I'll tell you I have 'go-to colors'....lol...

 

I especially like the quotes from the pros...like Swindle in the video on p.4 of this thread: "They stupid fish.  They live in the water.  They react to their environment.  The more credit you give 'em, the more harder you make the puzzle."

 

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

 

These guys fish for a living....to put food on the table, so to speak...I don't take everything they say as gospel, and I question motives sometimes because of sponsorships...but its clear that the jury is still out....and color doesn't matter except when it does to you....no clue what it means to a bass, however....I'll sit here with a straight face and tell you that I don't think color matters...much;  but tomorrow, I might just as quickly tell you that I won't use bubble gum or methiolate...or that green pumpkin is always a good choice for worms...most always, anyway...I enjoy these threads, but until somebody catches that talking bass, I think we're going to keep guessing and the manufacturers are going to keep selling us hundreds of different colors


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 3:45 AM, Choporoz said:

...

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

...

KVD relates this story in one of his books:

"During a tournament in MI a few years ago, the top four finishers were fishing the same weed flat that was about a quarter-mile in diameter. We were all pitching worms into the weeds and, as we later discovered, we were all using a different color that each of us believed was the secret to our success. I was throwing a black worm and it was the only color I could get bit on. Yet one angler caught his on Junebug, another was using Red Shad, and another was convinced that pumpkin was the hot color. Obviously, color didn't matter to the fish as much as it did to us."


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 3:03 AM, Paul Roberts said:

 

You, me, and Zaleski ? Still makes me tremble when I come across an old pack.

 

-T9

  On 1/28/2017 at 3:03 AM, Paul Roberts said:

For a time there (when my budget was slimmer) I went with "Black Grape", an attempt at a catch-all (and not a bad one) -kinda the Green Pumpkin of it's day.

 

 


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

Rich Z. is friendly acquaintance of mine.  Met him a couple times when I was doing the NYBASS seminars.  The guy has had some health issues the past couple years, but still goes out and slays them.  Fishes for stripers all winter. 

 

Black Culprits were my go to back in the day.


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 4:01 AM, Paul Roberts said:

KVD relates this story in one of his books:

"During a tournament in MI a few years ago, the top four finishers were fishing the same weed flat that was about a quarter-mile in diameter. We were all pitching worms into the weeds and, as we later discovered, we were all using a different color that each of us believed was the secret to our success. I was throwing a black worm and it was the only color I could get bit on. Yet one angler caught his on Junebug, another was using Red Shad, and another was convinced that pumpkin was the hot color. Obviously, color didn't matter to the fish as much as it did to us."

Would be interesting to know what colors the anglers tried.  Maybe KVD tried, blue, pink, and yellow, and only got bit on black, but would have done well, on green pumpkin  Red Shad, and June bug.  Can't rule out color 100% just because more than one worked.  Chartreuse might have drawn a complete blank for everyone.  I would agree the color preference of the anglers was more important to the angler than the bass that day.  Just wouldn't rule out color 100% 

 

 


fishing user avatarLogan S reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 3:45 AM, Choporoz said:

Or, as @Logan S told us in his day with KVD thread, KVD was convinced that finding the right color on any particular day can be key...clearly that had nothing to do with pitching us all on SK products...he was trying to catch fish

That was eye opening to me, more so becasue a lot of it was with frogs which is low on the "color matters" list for many.  I think it's also important to note that it mattered to him on that day.  Put him on another body of water at a different time while fishing with different techniques and it may not have been as important of a factor to him.  

 

I'm in the camp that it matters when it matters...And sometimes it matters a lot, other times not so much.  


fishing user avatarscaleface reply : 

There is probably always a best color , in my opinion anyhow. Its just  counter-productive to go through all of them . A person might catch 25 fish on  watermelon  but maybe black grape would have caught 30 . So we fish what we have confidence in .


fishing user avatarIndianaFinesse reply : 

I'm going to go with color not mattering much, it's a heck of a lot cheaper theory to subscribe to, compared with thinking that I have to have half a dozen colors of each bait.  Really simplifies bait selection to, which is always a good thing in my mind.

The post Logan made about his day with KVD was interesting though, seeing how much he though color mattered that day, without worrying about selling product.


fishing user avatarfissure_man reply : 

Very interesting discussion, especially the sharelunker stats.   Can anyone provide a link to where I can download that data set?  Is it just dates and weights?

 

  On 1/28/2017 at 12:19 AM, Team9nine said:

 

Nope to moon phases - and there are a few other studies that back that up. I simply think the big fish are more vulnerable to normal angling pressure at that time of year due to them having to come shallow and spawn, and some anglers are simply better at patterning that vulnerability, or at least taking advantage of it, regardless of actual moon phase.

 

I would guess another contributing factor has to be the mass of eggs these big sows are carrying in the spring, right?  I wonder how many 12.5's are caught in the fall that would be sharelunkers a few months later.  Perhaps if sharelunker admission was based on length, not weight, the proportion of catches at other times of the year wouldn't lag quite as far behind pre-spawn/spawn.

 

Conversely, you might expect the length of the average early fall sharelunker to be greater than for the average spring sharelunker, not having the benefit of all those fully-developed eggs to add weight.

 

Fully off topic now :D

 

  On 1/28/2017 at 3:40 AM, Catt said:

My all time favorite color is Cinnamon Pepper Neon Junebug Laminate... Camouflage!

...

The majority of my double digit bass come on camo!

 

Can't resist.  :devil1:

 

Is camo your favorite color because it catches the most DD's?  Or does camo catch the most DD's because it's your favorite color (and it's tied on most often)?

 

  On 1/27/2017 at 9:57 AM, WRB said:

...I choose to believe the 5 day full moon phase to be a high percentage time, so I spend a majority of my time trophy bass at that time, couldn't take off all month only a few days...

 

Same thing.  Do you fish around the full moon because that's when you catch the big ones?  Or do you catch the big one's around the full moon because that's when you fish?

 

*ducking behind wall*

 

I'm NOT saying that these are poor fishing strategies, or that I have any contrary proof.  Obviously your results speak for themselves.  Just adding some food for thought to the discussion :D 


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 6:11 AM, scaleface said:

There is probably always a best color , in my opinion anyhow. Its just  counter-productive to go through all of them . A person might catch 25 fish on  watermelon  but maybe black grape would have caught 30 . So we fish what we have confidence in .

 

Interestingly, the truth might be exactly the opposite. I've tracked down and read every color study I could find, both on bass as well as a variety of freshwater and saltwater species. If taken as a whole, and looked at for generalities, what you find is that the most compelling conclusion is that there are a bunch of "good" colors (no one "best" color), none more effective than another (statistically speaking), but there are also always one (or a few) "bad" colors, ones that do perform significantly worse than the larger "good" group (but usually still manage to catch a few). This is the reason for my own color selection theory I mentioned/wrote about in another post.

 

  On 1/28/2017 at 6:34 AM, fissure_man said:

Very interesting discussion, especially the sharelunker stats.   Can anyone provide a link to where I can download that data set?  Is it just dates and weights?

 

 

Don't believe the data set is available for download anymore, at least not in its entirety. PM sent...

 

-T9


fishing user avatarking fisher reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 8:01 AM, Team9nine said:

 

Interestingly, the truth might be exactly the opposite. I've tracked down and read every color study I could find, both on bass as well as a variety of freshwater and saltwater species. If taken as a whole, and looked at for generalities, what you find is that the most compelling conclusion is that there are a bunch of "good" colors (no one "best" color), none more effective than another (statistically speaking), but there are also always one (or a few) "bad" colors, ones that do perform significantly worse than the larger "good" group (but usually still manage to catch a few). This is the reason for my own color selection theory I mentioned/wrote about in another post.

 

 

Don't believe the data set is available for download anymore, at least not in its entirety. PM sent...

 

-T9

I have not ready many color studies, and can only draw on experience with other sport fish.  I do know that for rainbow trout on streams in Western Alaska, when Sockeye Salmon are spawning, color is the very important. An orange bead painted with pearl finger nail polish will catch rainbows every cast.  When you look at an orange bead, and a fresh sockey egg in the air, they look identical.  In the water the real egg gets a white look to the outside.  Finger nail polish imitates this foggy look perfectly.  Believe me a bunch of Alaska guides would not get caught borrowing their girl friends finger nail polish, if it didn't make a difference.  I have watched clients catch fish every cast with these beads, while I experimented with other colored beads and yarn flies.  Even going so far as to soak the other baits in salmon egg juice.  The orange painted bead always out fishes the other offerings 100 to 1.  Even when my clients mend incorrectly, making very bad drifts, they still catch fish, while I make perfect drag free drifts with other colors catching no fish.  I understand that rainbow trout are not bass.  I will point out that both are predatory fish, that can see color.  It is easy to experiment with trout in Alaska, because I can  eliminate most other variables, because the water is clear, I can see the fish, and catch them in large numbers, for many days in a row.  I have also had similar experiences with artic grayling, King Salmon, Silver, Salmon and Yellow fin Tuna.  I have fished and guided for many other species of fish, that I assume prefer different colors in different conditions, but I have never had the opportunity to eliminate enough variables to make a firm conclusion.  On a side note. the same trout will hit a mouse pattern drifted over them all summer, until the salmon start laying eggs.  Once the first eggs hit the water, you could drift a mouse within inches of their nose, and they wont even notice.  I have tried many times.  This is  my best example of matching the hatch.  Again I know the other species I mentioned are not bass.  I am aware that bass might be completely different.  I can only assume bass have some similarities to these other predator fish with color vision.

 


fishing user avatarCatt reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 6:34 AM, fissure_man said:

I would guess another contributing factor has to be the mass of eggs these big sows are carrying in the spring, right?  I wonder how many 12.5's are caught in the fall that would be sharelunkers a few months later.  Perhaps if sharelunker admission was based on length, not weight, the proportion of catches at other times of the year wouldn't lag quite as far behind pre-spawn/spawn.

 

Conversely, you might expect the length of the average early fall sharelunker to be greater than for the average spring sharelunker, not having the benefit of all those fully-developed eggs to add weight.

 

Fully off topic now :D

 

 

Can't resist.  :devil1:

 

Is camo your favorite color because it catches the most DD's?  Or does camo catch the most DD's because it's your favorite color (and it's tied on most often)?

 

First question

Genetics: not all bass are genetically capable of reaching double digits & is the reason for the 13# benchmark. You have to understand every lake in Texas is man-made with the exception of Caddo. Most of these lakes started with little or no brood stock, Texas biologist brought in bass from Florida, California, & Cuba.

 

Second question

Ya gotta start each day somewhere with something!

 

When available I start my day or night on deep offshore structure. Most anglers like pre-spawn/spawn because the bass are easy to find & are activity feeding. I prefer the dog days of summer for my big bass hunts. Of the measly 35 Double digits I've only a couple were caught during pre-spawn/spawn.

 

My starting techniques are Texas Rigged plastics & a Jig-n-Craw. 

 

Same goes for color ya gotta start somewhere & Camo is my somewhere. Even more specifically a Gene Larew 7 1/2" Salty Ringworm which are no longer made so I buy ringworms from Ann's Tackle in Jasper Tx.

 

Does it always work...nope ;)


fishing user avatarPaul Roberts reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 4:58 AM, Team9nine said:

You, me, and Zaleski ? Still makes me tremble when I come across an old pack.

Didya know Rich has gone to Green Pumpkin as his GoTo color? Or... GoEn ("Good Enough"). Probably as much bc Black Grape just isn't so widely available anymore, than bc it's that much better.

  On 1/28/2017 at 5:11 AM, J Francho said:

Black Culprits were my go to back in the day.

John, did/do you know John Reynolds, then with Roch Bassmasters. He showed me a worm color that really worked in dark peaty water. We were flipping/pitching the edges of the ledges on a big sink-hole pond. It was a ribbon-tail worm -Gillrakers I believe- in Black Shad. The flash created by that contrasty tail triggered those bass really well in that dark peaty water. I still carry them, although almost all my waters here in CO are pretty clear pits. So I now find myself trying to hide my worms, using translucent colors.


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 

Not sure if I do know him or not, but on tough days on the bays, in the sort of conditions you describe, a tail color can be key.  I used to buy worms with a bright tail - there were quite a few Powerworms, which replaced my Culprits, that had them - and do better than just plain.  These days, a dip in JJ's Merthiolate or chartreuse does the trick.


fishing user avatarTeam9nine reply : 
  On 1/28/2017 at 11:44 AM, king fisher said:

I have not ready many color studies, and can only draw on experience with other sport fish.  I do know that for rainbow trout on streams in Western Alaska, when Sockeye Salmon are spawning, color is the very important. An orange bead painted with pearl finger nail polish will catch rainbows every cast.  When you look at an orange bead, and a fresh sockey egg in the air, they look identical.  In the water the real egg gets a white look to the outside.  Finger nail polish imitates this foggy look perfectly.  Believe me a bunch of Alaska guides would not get caught borrowing their girl friends finger nail polish, if it didn't make a difference.  I have watched clients catch fish every cast with these beads, while I experimented with other colored beads and yarn flies.  Even going so far as to soak the other baits in salmon egg juice.  The orange painted bead always out fishes the other offerings 100 to 1.  Even when my clients mend incorrectly, making very bad drifts, they still catch fish, while I make perfect drag free drifts with other colors catching no fish.  I understand that rainbow trout are not bass.  I will point out that both are predatory fish, that can see color.  It is easy to experiment with trout in Alaska, because I can  eliminate most other variables, because the water is clear, I can see the fish, and catch them in large numbers, for many days in a row.  I have also had similar experiences with artic grayling, King Salmon, Silver, Salmon and Yellow fin Tuna.  I have fished and guided for many other species of fish, that I assume prefer different colors in different conditions, but I have never had the opportunity to eliminate enough variables to make a firm conclusion.  On a side note. the same trout will hit a mouse pattern drifted over them all summer, until the salmon start laying eggs.  Once the first eggs hit the water, you could drift a mouse within inches of their nose, and they wont even notice.  I have tried many times.  This is  my best example of matching the hatch.  Again I know the other species I mentioned are not bass.  I am aware that bass might be completely different.  I can only assume bass have some similarities to these other predator fish with color vision.

 

 

Your experiences listed above are perfect examples of "Optimal Foraging Theory" (OFT). That becomes the big benefit of having intimate familiarity with a particular water body and its resident fish population. It also doesn't conflict with using the general color theory I mentioned as a guideline for those without that level of knowledge, or at times when specific food supply isn't so prolific, especially when dealing with bass. In theory, "match the hatch" is nothing more than OFT lite B)

 

 

  On 1/29/2017 at 2:14 AM, Paul Roberts said:

Didya know Rich has gone to Green Pumpkin as his GoTo color? Or... GoEn ("Good Enough"). Probably as much bc Black Grape just isn't so widely available anymore, than bc it's that much better.

 

 

Yeah, Rich's original primary finesse "go-to" colors were smoke, black grape ("grape"), black and motor oil. He uses "motor oil pepper" the most these days in soft plastics (dropshot Ribster and Swimfish) from what I've seen, along with black. I think he has pretty much given up on smoke for the most part though and gone to green pumpkin as you mention for grubs. I also concur with the very limited availability of black grape ("grape") these days as being more the reason for its lack of mention/popularity.

 

-T9


fishing user avatarJ Francho reply : 
  On 1/29/2017 at 3:08 AM, Team9nine said:

He uses "motor oil pepper" the most these days

 

That's what I see hanging out of the mouth of the fish in the FB posts.  I don't get the feeling he's a color guy.




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