Where Do You Draw The Line? 2024
Tony L. reply :
I am headed back to a lake that I have only ever fished once. There is a good stock of bass in it and LOTS of organic matter from last season's lilly pads. So much, in fact, that the water is deeply stained. I would say that visibility is maybe 6 inches tops-even though it really isn't muddy at all. It feels like fishing in a giant pot of coffee.
I had great success with noisy baits like topwaters, spinners and rattling cranks last time, but got to wondering if it would ever be productive to throw soft plastics. It is just where I have more confidence. I know that, even if totally blinded, bass will still sense with their lateral lines, but I still think of soft plastics as more of a sight lure. Does anyone have a general visibility cutoff where you might decide to only use flashy or noisy lures, or do you keep on using baits like soft plastics through the murkiest water? If there is a line, where is it?
J Francho reply :
Water Clarity alomost never enters the equation for whether to throw a plastic or not. I suggest you get away from this awfully limiting idea that plastics are just for clear water - that's total nonsense!
Toss a RageTail Craw or Lobster aty your favorite spot, and see what happens.
Alonerankin2 reply :
Lochloosa & Orange in Florida & many , many other lakes are tannic in color, I fish plastic worms with great success in those " coffee" stained waters.. Therefore I agree with JF in his statement as well ( worms, craws,etc make up about 75% of my fishing )
WRB reply :
Check the depth of light, tannic or stained water can have good depth of light. Make succchi disk (1/2 black & 1/2 white painted pie tin with a hole in the middle to attach you line to. Drop the disk down until you can't see it in day light, measure the depth. You can also drop a white spinner down until you can't see it for approximate depth of light. You probably have more than 2' depth of light!
The bass don't have any problems finding prey trying to hide from them in stained water, you can use whatever lure is working best for you. I always use a tempered glass faceted bead between the weight and hook to make a clicking sound regardless of the water clarity with soft plastics.
Tom
Raul reply :
Ok, I´ll have to say it again and excuse me if it bothers somebody´s sensibility.
BASS DO NOT NEED TO SEE THE BAIT IN ORDER TO HIT IT
Now that I got that out of my chest and hoping, the size and being in bold the message will go through and won´t land on a coat of teflon you can help the fish a little to locate the bait, it´s not absolutely necessary but it ain´t gonna hurt.
Make it loud, make it noisy, make it strong vibrating, make it shiny.
I have caught thousands of fish with soft plastic baits out of water you could literally plow.
J Francho reply :
And do what with that info? I mean, when communicating water clarity, this *could* be helpful, It's also one of the several measurements we captured when doing environmental studies in college, but what part of knowing that measurement can we apply to fishing? At best it's acedemic, at worst it's just a time waster. The water is dirty or clear, or somewhere in between. I am probably one the best known "measurebaters" on this forum, and inclined to take detail oriented things way too far, but I can't see the practical application here.QuoteCheck the depth of light, tannic or stained water can have good depth of light. Make succchi disk (1/2 black & 1/2 white painted pie tin with a hole in the middle to attach you line to. Drop the dish down until you can't see it in day light, measure the depth.you can also drop a white spinner down until you can't see it for approximate depth of light.
Catt reply :
Bass have to live where they are born, they can not pack a suit case & move.
The bass have adapted...The angler must adapt as well!
Raul reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 1:34 AM, Catt said:Bass have to live where they are born, they can not pack a suit case & move.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.
I like that part of packing bags and leaving´. 
J Francho reply :
It's funny becuse I'm often subconciously guilty of the opposite - thinking of clear water lakes as "hard lure" or "moving lure" lakes. It gets stuck in my head that bass can see better, so baits have to be realistic or have a quick retrieve. Totally not true, but goes to show you that any kind of "conventional wisdom" is often a mistake in fishing.
K_Mac reply :
Adding a bead or rattle can make a difference, but it is situational. Sometimes just going bigger will make the difference. A big jig and craw, a big worm, or a big creature bait displaces enough water to be easily found by a hungry bass. Bigger or louder are not the only answer though. I have caught big fish in shallow muddy water on a t-rigged Smallie Beaver and 3/16 oz weight. In other words, as J Franco said, don't let water clarity determine what you fish, let the fish do it.
WRB reply :
The OP ask a simple question; Where do you draw the line?
We have answers ranging from plowed dirt, it does't matter and bass don't have a choice where they live.
The succchi disk is a universal baseline, not subjective and simply gives the angler a specific depth of light, do with it as you see fit. A spinnerbait angler may use water clarity to select blade colors for example.
Bass have exceptional eye sight, you can ignor that fact or take advantage of it.
Bass often pack their bags and move out of or into dirty water looking for prey; mud lines, river confluence, rain run off etc. Fishing water color break line is common, the bass may move to that zone to take advantage of their good eye sight.
Tom
Nice_Bass reply :
I guess the key for me would be how long has that water been stained that way? if it is new stained water I tend to agree that soft plastics would be a bit more difficult to fish, or at least have confidence in. For water that is year round like that different story altogether. Post spawn w/ temporary acute coffee water I would go to a different lake until it normalized, personally...
EmersonFish reply :
I'll skip the science. I can tell you "anecdotally" that I have caught plenty of fish on soft plastics and jigs, fishing cover in water with very little visibility. I'd guess they take advantage of the low visibility to ambush prey more easily, so let them ambush your bait. I fish fairly clear water most of the time, and when we do get a little muddy water, it can actually be an opportunity, rather than a bummer.
Whatever their motivation, they seem to find a black/blue jig I can't see 12" under water just fine. In your case, they probably see better than you think. The coffee colored water you describe is different from really muddy water from a lot of runoff in the spring or fall. Even in truly muddy water, they'll find it. All I would avoid is a subtle, quiet, moving bait. Either fish tight to cover, or use moving baits that they can locate a little easier.
Raul reply :
Not only they "see" better, they feel better through their lateral line.
WRB reply :
Years ago I was fishing with my father in law in Ontario Canada near Kenora on a chain of lakes called High Wind. This is the first time experiencing stained water coffee or dark tea color. The was clear, just brown color.
These are lake trout lakes with pike and smallmouth bass populations. We started with chrome spoons that in this water looked gold, you could see them form a good distance. Changed to gold spoons that looked copper color in this water and immediately started catching big pike and some smallmouth. Going deeper jigging the spoons for lake trout the gold with blue strip was the ticket, not plain gold, or chrome or chrome with blue stripe. Lure color made a difference in this stained water to the fish.
Just try different colors.
Tom
Catt reply :
Tom, you ate correct the secchi disc is the universal baseline for "human eyesight"! But once again you are trying to apply "science" meant for humans to bass, it does not apply. Bass born in muddy water rely less on their eyesight & more on their lateral line to sense the location of prey.
As to "Where Do You Draw The Line?"
We can not draw a line & expect to be a successful angler. The OP was given personal experience proving this. Like the bass some of us have to deal with the waters we are forced to fish because we simply can not move to where ideal waters exist!
Ratherbfishing reply :
I'd let the bass draw the line. My rule of thumb, at least initially, is this: The darker or muddier the water, the darker (or sometimes brighter) the bait I will go to and the slower I will generally fish it. It doesn't always play out that way but that's where I begin.
J Francho reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 2:07 AM, WRB said:The OP ask a simple question; Where do you draw the line?
We have answers ranging from plowed dirt, it does't matter and bass don't have a choice where they live.
The succchi disk is a universal baseline, not subjective and simply gives the angler a specific depth of light, do with it as you see fit. A spinnerbait angler may use water clarity to select blade colors for example.
Bass have exceptional eye sight, you can ignor that fact or take advantage of it.
Bass often pack their bags and move out of or into dirty water looking for prey; mud lines, river confluence, rain run off etc. Fishing water color break line is common, the bass may move to that zone to take advantage of their good eye sight.
Tom
Yes, all of that is true and I agree with what you say. However, what do I do after I've use my secchi disk and determined it diappeared after 2.3 meters? What am I supposed to do with this? I hear this brought up repeatedly, but I never hear the next sentence. Why did I measure the visibility?
K_Mac reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 12:41 AM, Tony L. said:Does anyone have a general visibility cutoff where you might decide to only use flashy or noisy lures, or do you keep on using baits like soft plastics through the murkiest water? If there is a line, where is it?
Here is the actual question. My reply was that I treat muddy water like any other situation, and let the fish decide. I do not night fish in cold muddy water after a major rain event, so if you want a line that is one. In cold water I will generally look for the clearest water available in the abovementioned situation to start. I don't really care about trying to quantify how muddy the water is.
WRB reply :
Depth of light helps to determine how deep green aquatic vegation will grow. I realize you don't need a succchi disk, that be easily done with a lure. All a succchi disk does is provide a standard method of measurement.
Catt I realize we don't know how bass see colors underwater, in fact we very little based on experience. It's like the color blind person who has all the normal human eye components and can't distinqiuse some colors or in some individuals, can only see shades of gray, the brain determines how colors are interpreted.
Tom
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 1:23 AM, WRB said:Check the depth of light, tannic or stained water can have good depth of light. Make succchi disk (1/2 black & 1/2 white painted pie tin with a hole in the middle to attach you line to. Drop the disk down until you can't see it in day light, measure the depth. You can also drop a white spinner down until you can't see it for approximate depth of light. You probably have more than 2' depth of light!
The bass don't have any problems finding prey trying to hide from them in stained water, you can use whatever lure is working best for you. I always use a tempered glass faceted bead between the weight and hook to make a clicking sound regardless of the water clarity with soft plastics.
Tom
I think the "depth of light" is twice what the detector shows.
Consider this. Let's say that you lose sight of the object at a depth of three feet. That means that the light has to travel through three feet of water to get to the object, and then be reflected back through another three feet of water to be seen.
To me, that means that the light, or its source could be seen at a depth of six feet.
I could be wrong, but I'm used to that.
everythingthatswims reply :
In REALLY dirty water the only baits I ever catch many fish on are black and blue jigs and black and blue t-rigs.
bassr95 reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 7:56 AM, Fishing Rhino said:I think the "depth of light" is twice what the detector shows.
Consider this. Let's say that you lose sight of the object at a depth of three feet. That means that the light has to travel through three feet of water to get to the object, and then be reflected back through another three feet of water to be seen.
To me, that means that the light, or its source could be seen at a depth of six feet.
I could be wrong, but I'm used to that.
Sounds right to me...
Paul Roberts reply :
Great question and great responses. I agree with... all of it!
On 5/22/2015 at 12:53 AM, J Francho said:...
Toss a RageTail Craw or Lobster aty your favorite spot, and see what happens.
There are all kinds of "soft plastics".
On 5/22/2015 at 4:22 AM, J Francho said:... However, what do I do after I've use my secchi disk and determined it diappeared after 2.3 meters? What am I supposed to do with this? I hear this brought up repeatedly, but I never hear the next sentence. Why did I measure the visibility?
When I measure such things it's to get some sense of the scale of things out there, rather than as something directly applicable. Values may be helpful as basic limnological/ecological background info on a water body. But in terms of immediate fishing decisions, an actual value doesn't mean anything.
On 5/22/2015 at 1:34 AM, Catt said:Bass have to live where they are born, they can not pack a suit case & move.
The bass have adapted...The angler must adapt as well!
Yeah, bass can make good livings in such a wide range of conditions. This does not mean that clarity never factors in.
On 5/22/2015 at 2:36 AM, Nice_Bass said:I guess the key for me would be how long has that water been stained that way? if it is new stained water I tend to agree that soft plastics would be a bit more difficult to fish, or at least have confidence in. For water that is year round like that different story altogether. Post spawn w/ temporary acute coffee water I would go to a different lake until it normalized, personally...
Nice nuanced response. Bass that grew up in low clarity adapt at a developmental level and can be effective hunters in low clarity. This is not an instantaneous process. Waters that are normally very clear that undergo a sudden turbidity change can end up with very skinny bass until it clears. Beyond such extremes, bass in most waters experience a range of visibility conditions and can hunt effectively in a wide range of lighting conditions.
On 5/22/2015 at 7:56 AM, Fishing Rhino said:I think the "depth of light" is twice what the detector shows.
Consider this. Let's say that you lose sight of the object at a depth of three feet. That means that the light has to travel through three feet of water to get to the object, and then be reflected back through another three feet of water to be seen.
To me, that means that the light, or its source could be seen at a depth of six feet.
I could be wrong, but I'm used to that.
Speaking of academics... Not only does this (light travel distance) work as you describe vertically, but horizontally too, although I'm not so sure the 6ft number wouldn't be slightly less due to attenuation at depth. Not sure. Guess we'd have to measure that one.
Anyway, the point is that there is more light getting through than we might think when we lower a lure (or secchi disk) down to check visibility. Further, bass are apparently quite light sensitive -more so than some of their common prey like bluegills and shad. Most bass we fish to are well equipped to deal with low visibility conditions.
J Francho reply :
While you were playing with your disc, I caught a delicious bass.
CWB reply :
Rhino has it right. I've read that using the disk determines light penetration. If the disk disappears at 3 feet, light penetration is 6 feet. What I've read is that is the depth you should start fishing. But just because I read it doesn't mean I do it.
J Francho reply :
Lol
Catt reply :
OP: Does anyone have a general visibility cutoff where you might decide to only use flashy or noisy lures, or do you keep on using baits like soft plastics through the murkiest water?
If there is a line, where is it?
Based on thousands of hours of experience by our members the unanimous answer was an emphatic no there should not be a visibility cutoff or line.
No science required 
Felix77 reply :
Plastics work in all kinds of conditions. Just need to choose the right plastic and colors.
Case in point ... A Black senko has performed for me in almost every condition. Including stained/dirty waters.
Nice_Bass reply :
I would disagree catt...there is. Sudden acute clairty change does have a cutoff for me.
Sometimes fishing from experience and history works but there are times where it does not.
Mike L reply :
Huh...
Sometimes when a simple question is asked you guys get so wound up in your effort to help, the unscientific less educated of us (which may only be me) just has to sit back and admire the education and knowledge some of you have and just keep reading.
I've learned a few things reading these 3 pages that I never expected to.
OP...I can't add much to the discussion, but to say...
Go grab a freakin rod, tie something on, and throw it in the water...You'll know soon enough.
Mike
Catt reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 8:16 PM, Nice_Bass said:I would disagree catt...there is. Sudden acute clairty change does have a cutoff for me.
Sometimes fishing from experience and history works but there are times where it does not.
If you do not use past experience & history what left?
Everything we do in life is based on past experiences & history!
HoosierHawgs reply :
I would say you should use past experience and history as a starting point, and go from there based on what current things are telling you. My 2 cents.On 5/22/2015 at 10:16 PM, Catt said:If you do not use past experience & history what left?
Everything we do in life is based on past experiences & history!
As for as the OP question goes, I don't have the knowledge or experience to answer it... Sorry
Nice_Bass reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 10:16 PM, Catt said:If you do not use past experience & history what left?
Everything we do in life is based on past experiences & history!
Current conditions is what is left...
Sudden changes in clarity does change what may have worked, or was working prior to a change....or so says my experience 
Catt reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 10:22 PM, Nice_Bass said:Current conditions is what is left...
Sudden changes in clarity does change what may have worked, or was working prior to a change....or so says my experience
But when you look at the current conditions how do you decide what to do
HoosierHawgs reply :
Based on past experiences in those conditions! That's why we keep logs! The ahhh moment now appears.On 5/22/2015 at 10:29 PM, Catt said:But when you look at the current conditions how do you decide what to do
Nice_Bass reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 10:29 PM, Catt said:But when you look at the current conditions how do you decide what to do
I do what feels good, of course!
The topic of soft plastics and sudden clarity changes. If you fish just experience then you may not be changing the way you fish, ever. certainly limits the experience you would gain. Apparently this is a chicken or the egg conversation.
but,....I still stand by original topic answer...rapid and sudden change does change the amount of soft plastics I would use under most circumstances especially in a post spawn timeframe that he would be in right now.
Catt reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 10:59 PM, Nice_Bass said:I do what feels good, of course!
The topic of soft plastics and sudden clarity changes. If you fish just experience then you may not be changing the way you fish, ever. certainly limits the experience you would gain. Apparently this is a chicken or the egg conversation.
but,....I still stand by original topic answer...rapid and sudden change does change the amount of soft plastics I would use under most circumstances especially in a post spawn timeframe that he would be in right now.
Everything is just said is based on your past experience!
Oh yea the chicken came first or there could be no egg!
Alonerankin2 reply :
On 5/23/2015 at 12:42 AM, Catt said:Everything is just said is based on your past experience!
Oh yea the chicken came first or there could be no egg!
I agree on both statements.. But I'm stoked that we both agree on the chicken came before the egg!
Nice_Bass reply :
On 5/23/2015 at 12:42 AM, Catt said:Everything is just said is based on your past experience!
Oh yea the chicken came first or there could be no egg!
More of a evolved from dinosaurs kind of guy...and agree- Chicken.
Catt reply :
On 5/23/2015 at 1:57 AM, Nice_Bass said:More of a evolved from dinosaurs kind of guy...
Uh! No!!!!!!
Raul reply :
I don´t know everything there is to know about bass fishing, you may say that I know a "couple" of things; whenever I see a thread like this and read why the thread was created there´s always one common denominator, the OP most of the time focuses only in the baits used, "I fished with this", "I fished with that", it´s always the bait, it´s never you.... always the bait, never you. You choose the bait, has it ever crossed your mind that:
a) you may not be choosing the right bait ( size, weight, profile, color ) for those conditions ?
you may have chosen the right bait but are you absolutely sure without beyond the shadow of doubt that you picked the right rigging method ( since we are speaking about soft plastics in poor visibility conditions ) ?
c )you may have chosen the right bait, chose the right rigging method but are you absolutely shure you are fishing with the right presentation ?
d ) right bait, right rigging method, right presentation and....... how about right location ?
einscodek reply :
water clarity is not the only factor but its a factor.
clearwater absent of any other factors such as light or wind or current or structure etc.. guess whats comin out of my box first.. plastics.. the best lookin natural ones
why first cause imo from experience thats what works best and I'm not out there to waste time
Can plastics work in heavy stain and wheres the cutoff? Depends on the conditions and how the fish are feelin
IMO even in water with less than 6" visibility there are times fish respnd to subtleness over a rock concert in the water
HoosierHawgs reply :
All right, lets not get this thread locked down boys!On 5/23/2015 at 2:28 AM, Catt said:Uh! No!!!!!!
Believe what you want to believe. My mother always told me to worry about myself and what I do, not others.
J Francho reply :
Aliens, man it was aliens!
Anyway, one thing I'll tell you I think about is the possibility that in clearer water that the fish I'm after might be deeper than I'm used to. Nothing hard set. I know many times when I'm having a tough time, deeper bites come a little easier. It might be in comfortable with that being a Great Lakes/Finger Lakes guy, or its a northern thing -who knows. Deep fish don't seem to have the same temperament as shallow fish. They're steadier, less fickle. I do love a shallow bite though.
Mike L reply :
On 5/23/2015 at 4:10 AM, jakob1010 said:All right, lets not get this thread locked down boys!
Believe what you want to believe. My mother always told me to worry about myself and what I do, not others.
Mama is a smart lady
Mike
RoLo reply :
I thought about contributing to this thread a couple times,
but nope...that's where I draw the line 
Roger
5 Dollar Fishing Game reply :
On 5/22/2015 at 7:42 PM, J Francho said:Lol
http://youtu.be/H8Q_8DvipCA
L
O
L
Paul Roberts reply :
John, I thought mebbe you'd joined the bucket brigade.
Since the OP mentioned he’d done well on this water using topwaters I wondered whether there really was 6in or less in visibility. I tend to put the topwaters away (“noisy” or not) in those conditions, along with… finesse worms. Now I’m sure someone out there has slayed them at one time or another with to topwater or finesse worms with 6in of visibility. But that hasn’t been my experience.
The OPer could be describing that black bottomed tannin stained water. Or, it may not be stained at all, being an algal bloom and depending on lighting he could have been seeing illuminated "scattering" which could make it appear worse than it actually is. I suggest he go ahead and measure in this case, which might allow him to be more comfortable with his decisions. You know, I love the idea of "let the fish tell you". But what if they don’t? Ever had that happen?
As to the science words ... I guess I don't know what else to call some of that "stuff" we see out there. For one thing, "stain" is not a ubiquitous word for all less-than-transparent water.
TonyL, if it really has 6in of visibility and you want to try plastics: go dark, go bulky, and fish close -even tight- to cover. Give it a shot and tell us what happened.
(BTW, it's the egg! The egg predates the chicken, being a MUCH older development.)
BobP reply :
I make two changes when fishing very stained water. I'll go with a darker color plastic, preferably one that moves a lot of water. And I'll fish even closer to cover than usual. Bass tend to position closer to a cover object as water visibility is reduced.
Alonerankin2 reply :
No sir! The chickens first, then came the egg!
And now, I shall hard fry 2 for a sammy..
Tony L. reply :
Update:
Based on everyone's feedback, I felt comfortable in tying on soft plastic as opposed to relying solely on something noisy/flashy. The bass were still very shallow and were readily inhaling a dark, purple-ish blue, T-rigged lizard with green glitter. For extra confidence, I added a glass bead to give my rig a bit more sparkle and an audible 'click'. Worked like a charm, and I boated several beautiful bass and the biggest crappie I have ever caught. Since we released all the bass and the crappie didn't have any more company after a couple hours, it got to swim free as well. Thanks to everyone that replied!
Certainly got a ton of comments, so I appreciate everyone's time in setting things straight in my mind. You all definitely made this a successful trip for me. Since fish were caught, the gear is now broken down and packed away, and I am headed home in a few hours, I am currently considering this one solved. Thanks again to everyone. Your collective knowledge is staggering.
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