Topwater question....deep thoughts at 1am. 2025
=Matt 5.0= reply :
I think I already know the answer, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with Bass.
Did you ever wonder why, if all the fish sees is this:
Why is there also a need for this?
cajun1977. reply :
you would be correct in your assumption ;D
Tin reply :
A good, a fellow RI guy with insomnia. Hop on AIM so we can discuss this.
Anyway, your right. I always wondered it too. As the saying goes, colors are for fisherman. :
guest reply :
So we can see the profile and position of the bait in the water 8-)
The_Natural reply :
I agree totally. I look at the bottom first. Clear, yellow, chrome and white are all I really consider, whether the white bottom be baby bass, tennessee shad, or other. That yellow bottom 'bullfrog' chug-bug is dynamite though...you obviously know or you wouldn't own one!
dumb_dog11 reply :
but, some topwater baits have the tail end hang all the way in the water and bass cruising at the surface would be able to see that
but usually, yes, its for us
Sam reply :
When you look at a bait look at it from the perspective of the bass.
Get into a swimming pool and sit on the bottom and look up.
What do you see?
You see a silver cover. And that's what the fish see. The top of the water is usually silver. Of course it changes with the cloud cover and water clarity, but for the most part the surface is silver to the fish.
Now, move around the swimming pool underwater as fast as you can and look up at the bait that you have floating on top or above you.
You have a split second to decide to eat it or leave it alone or just smack at it. And the bait has to catch your attention either by moving or by moving and then sitting still or sinking or rising.
As you move around the pool underwater you will be able to get a glimpse of the bait's eyes. This tells you that it is an edible snack and not a floating piece of wood or debris.
And the belly of the lure sets it off from the silver cover so the bass know it is there. The color and movement get their attention and make them curious about your bait.
This is why you fish your spinnerbaits fast in clear water and use rattles in muddy water. So the bass will hear or see the bait go by fast or they can find it easier and make an instant decision to eat it or try to kill it.
And if you wonder about your lures being interesting to a bass, how about answering this question:
If a bass never sees a worm in the water, what in the world would make the bass eat your plastic worm? Or any other crazy plastic lures that they have never seen before?
Or a crazy looking jig?
Or a spinnerbait?
Just wondering.
Catt reply :
Sound good but I don't buy a word if it cause if you do you would have to admit a bass is capable of deductive reasoning.
Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors?
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil?
Explain why black is so productive at night?
jaymc reply :
QuoteWhen you look at a bait look at it from the perspective of the bass.Get into a swimming pool and sit on the bottom and look up.
What do you see?
You see a silver cover. And that's what the fish see. The top of the water is usually silver. Of course it changes with the cloud cover and water clarity, but for the most part the surface is silver to the fish.
Now, move around the swimming pool underwater as fast as you can and look up at the bait that you have floating on top or above you.
You have a split second to decide to eat it or leave it alone or just smack at it. And the bait has to catch your attention either by moving or by moving and then sitting still or sinking or rising.
As you move around the pool underwater you will be able to get a glimpse of the bait's eyes. This tells you that it is an edible snack and not a floating piece of wood or debris.
And the belly of the lure sets it off from the silver cover so the bass know it is there. The color and movement get their attention and make them curious about your bait.
This is why you fish your spinnerbaits fast in clear water and use rattles in muddy water. So the bass will hear or see the bait go by fast or they can find it easier and make an instant decision to eat it or try to kill it.
And if you wonder about your lures being interesting to a bass, how about answering this question:
If a bass never sees a worm in the water, what in the world would make the bass eat your plastic worm? Or any other crazy plastic lures that they have never seen before?
Or a crazy looking jig?
Or a spinnerbait?
Just wondering.
A fish's brain is like a little computer. It basically has two functions. One is to to consume more calories than it expends in capturing its food, and the other is to keep its host from becoming food.
The tiny bass computer stores prey images. Each prey item has certain salient features which identify it as prey. A bass probably doesn't see its entire prey item until the last second before he engulfs it. By that time the bass is committed to the attack. However the bass is constantly receiving these messages from real prey. A good lure tends to exaggerate one or more features of the prey item. The trick is not to exaggerate to the point that it triggers a fear response more than a feeding response.
Lets look at a jig. Bass probably find crayfish as much by sound as sight. A jig moving through the water creates sound the bass picks up. When the bass makes visual contact it sees the movement of the skirt and trailer. When it sees a real crayfish it sees mostly the movement of the crayfish's wiggly appendages. The skirt and trailer are actually an exaggeration of those wiggly appendages. Now the bass brainmakes a very quick calculation. Is the distance to the prey item right, and is the angle of attack correct. The bass can't waste its energy chasing something it cannot catch.
The more agressive a fish is the more it is likely to respond to the exaggerations of an artificial bait.
T-rig reply :
QuoteWhen you look at a bait look at it from the perspective of the bass.Get into a swimming pool and sit on the bottom and look up.
What do you see?
You see a silver cover. And that's what the fish see. The top of the water is usually silver. Of course it changes with the cloud cover and water clarity, but for the most part the surface is silver to the fish.
How do you know that bass (fish) have the same perspective as we do?
Bass are well adapted hunting machines and probably see everything under water alot different then a human beeing.
Topwater baits are one of the few lures where I don't really worry about the colors too much. If a bass is going to strike you lure, he will, no matter what color is. Reaction strike and hold on.
jaymc reply :
QuoteSound good but I don't buy a word if it cause if you do you would have to admit a bass is capable of deductive reasoning.Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors?
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil?
Explain why black is so productive at night?
White reflects all wave lengths of color equally. It is bright under almost any condition, offering good contrast, but almost never too bright.
A clear lure creates sound and disturbance which tells the bass there is something there in trouble. But since it doesn't reflect any light the bass doesn't see anything that would alarm it.
Black contrasts well against a night sky. Generally, during the day it offers too much contrast and looks unnatural.
Most of the light from the sun during the day is green/yellow. Grass reflects green yellow light. Anything green will tend to be bathed in that light and somewhat brighter. Therefore the subtle green of watermelon contrasts against the grass but subtely.
detroit1 reply :
IMHO, it doesn't make any difference what color a surface lure is, if you fish in daylight. Always black at night though. I repainted a few with a perch pattern on the bottom to see if it would make any difference, but the jury is still out. It gives me a little more confidence, but really no extra bites.
CJ reply :
I agree,the color on the back of a surface plug doesn't matter.I don't think the color of the belly is as important as we'd like to believe.
When I reach in my box for a topwater,I'm thinking about presentation speed,water displacment,action,noise,but not color so much.
Sam reply :
T-Rig, agreed. You hit it on the head. But the colors are pretty for us to consider when making a purchase.
Catt:
Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors? - Different silhouette against the surface background.
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil? - Blends in with background and it looks normal.
Explain why black is so productive at night? - Silhouette against the cover and surface.
Bass see different than us. But they do see as we know and they look up when viewing the world and they can see in color and silhouettes.
My post was to try to explain how to look at the surface from below to get an idea of how the bait looks in the water. And as we all know, we get a lot of our strikes on topwaters when they are just sitting there, minding their own business.
Explaine back to me: Why would a bass strike a worm in the first place?
Great discussion. Let's start a new post and continue it.
Have to go to Sunday school so have to leave you guys.
Do appreciate the feedback and info.
guest reply :
Hey Sam: I do not know if this answers your question about worms but here goes my 0.2; One of my really deadly patterns on Natural Lakes and Big Slow Pools on rivers up here in the North East, are ripple tail and floating worms, during and after a rain storm. I work em from the shore to the boat, or from the edges of the pools and where the current starts into it on a river. I llok for run off streams and such and I have to tell you this is highly productive. What I am getting at, is when I was a kid I was collecting tadpoles one summer morning and a rain came fast and hard. I saw a lot of small red worms getting knocked in to the pond, by the rain and the tadpoles and small bluegills were clobbering them.
So whan I started bass fsihing , I tried it IT WORKS BIG TIME. When the run off hits the lake etc, it is washing a ton of worms and bugs into the water. So I believe since the worms undulate like they do, bass konw there is a live and tasty treat there
PS This season I am going to try a Jitterbug under the same circumstances, for much the same reason.
=Matt 5.0= reply :
Great input everyone! That's what makes this place great. 8-)
Paul Roberts reply :
That one's easy:
The top colors and patterns DO help catch bass!!!!
That window dressing on top sells the lure to the angler, so that he will take it where the bottom finish can catch the bass!
CJ reply :
Bass hit worms and my cat chases a laser pointer for the same reason,instinct.
F@bio reply :
I always wondered why some companies bragged about having red and holographic eyes when the fish can't see them! ;D
Catt reply :
Plastic Worm (Texas rigged) It's a long, thin shape resembles the profile of a wide variety of forage in the world of the bass, including earthworms, snakes, eels, and baitfish. Its action is almost entirely dependent on the contours of the bottom; and the rod movements of the fisherman, making it very random. It moves with little noise; the noise that it does make comes mostly from the random clicking of the sinker as it hits bottom. Bright colors and larger size can be used to increase its attracting qualities. Because of its basic resemblance to a wide array of living forage, this lure presents very few negative cues, and is hard for big bass to learn not to hit.
Doug Hannon
sal669 reply :
QuoteQuoteSound good but I don't buy a word if it cause if you do you would have to admit a bass is capable of deductive reasoning.Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors?
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil?
Explain why black is so productive at night?
...
Black contrasts well against a night sky. Generally, during the day it offers too much contrast and looks unnatural. ..
Than why on earth would (allmost) every basser that fishes jigs carry a bunch of BLACK & BLUE jigs?
How about black/blue flake worms,tubes ,etc ... :
dumb_dog11 reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteSound good but I don't buy a word if it cause if you do you would have to admit a bass is capable of deductive reasoning.Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors?
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil?
Explain why black is so productive at night?
...
Black contrasts well against a night sky. Generally, during the day it offers too much contrast and looks unnatural. ..
Than why on earth would (allmost) every basser that fishes jigs carry a bunch of BLACK & BLUE jigs?
How about black/blue flake worms,tubes ,etc ... :
when fishing topwater, black contrasts and produces a siloutte against the moonlight. underwater during the day, it is different and becomes more of a visibility underwater issue.
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteQuoteWhen you look at a bait look at it from the perspective of the bass.Get into a swimming pool and sit on the bottom and look up.
What do you see?
You see a silver cover. And that's what the fish see. The top of the water is usually silver. Of course it changes with the cloud cover and water clarity, but for the most part the surface is silver to the fish.
How do you know that bass (fish) have the same perspective as we do?
Bass are well adapted hunting machines and probably see everything under water alot different then a human beeing.
Topwater baits are one of the few lures where I don't really worry about the colors too much. If a bass is going to strike you lure, he will, no matter what color is. Reaction strike and hold on.
I'm with you T-rig,....they are hitting the action, not the color.
guest reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteSound good but I don't buy a word if it cause if you do you would have to admit a bass is capable of deductive reasoning.Explain why clear and bone white are so productive top water colors?
Explain why watermelon is so productive when fishing Hydrilla & Milfoil?
Explain why black is so productive at night?
...
Black contrasts well against a night sky. Generally, during the day it offers too much contrast and looks unnatural. ..
Than why on earth would (allmost) every basser that fishes jigs carry a bunch of BLACK & BLUE jigs?
How about black/blue flake worms,tubes ,etc ... :
WOW: YOU HAVE TOPWATER JIGS< WHO MAKES EM
roadwarrior reply :
#1 Action
#2 Profile
#3 Sound or vibration (or no sound or vibration!)
#4 Color
However, on certain days, specific characteristics dominate.
That's why sometimes a VERY specific color or accent is critical.
On other days it's a Senko vs. Fat Ika; worm vs. craw; lizard vs. tube.
8-)
Avalonjohn44 reply :
The belly of a frog or minnow are pretty stark looking, flat white, with not too many features.
Also remember that in most cases a bass isn't simply going to be viewing the bait from directly underneath, but at an angle. At an angle, he will have a view of the side of the bait and will see the eyes, the scales, the markings, etc. I do agree that the bottoms of baits should have some more detail, but not much more.
ABC123 reply :
I think I posted this before, but, the way I buy topwater lures is....
Natural colored bottoms. Yellow, white, green, black. Natural colors for a fish to see, if the fish sees it.
I buy different colored/patterned tops, so I can see them while working them. The brighter the sunlight, the darker the top. If the water reflection/background is bland, I use patterned top. If the background/water reflection is broken up, I use a solid color. I like to visually work topwater lures.
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