Is it wrong to think top water has small window of opportunity? 2024
detroithiker reply :
I am new and I have no faith in top water frogs and poppers.
Seems like a given bass fisherman would only use it cuz its exciting, same man could be more successful with other baits.
I know they can work but I always quit using it cuz I think the lack of a bite means I should be using something else.
I have watched every video I can find about using top water and I understand where I should be casting each.
Every time I use them I get nothing, I always try to devote a full hour to learning them but nothing happens, it could just be that the conditions have never been right and I need to learn to read those conditions better.
I have never caught a fish on top water and just don't think it could ever be the best choice for a given lake, it could be the best choice for a spot but never the best choice when you could go to a different section of the lake with better odds.
Am I wrong to doubt the reliability of topwater baits like hollow body frogs or poppers?
Please remember I am new and trying to learn
soflabasser reply :
Every location is different so you are going to get different answers. In South Florida topwaters are effective any time of day,at least in the locations I fish in.Hollow body lures tend to do best fished on or near aquatic vegetation(lily pads, hydrilla,etc) and hard plastic/wooden topwaters tend to do well when fished near heavy cover,near aquatic vegetation,or even in open waters if the conditions are right. Don't give up on topwaters since these types of fishing lures are very useful in many situations.
On 9/17/2016 at 12:18 PM, detroithiker said:
Seems like a given bass fisherman would only use it cuz its exciting, same man could be more successful with other baits.
You will be surprised how effective topwaters can be for both numbers of bass and size of bass if you spend the time needed to learn how to use these lures in various conditions.
Molay1292 reply :
Yes, yes you're wrong.
Yeajray231 reply :
I caught my PB on a top water. A rapala skitter pop which is a popper like you mentioned. Mid day. In June. Over a sunken tree.
I also have good success with frogs over dense vegetation.. you could use punching gear... but the frog bite is exciting and excellent. Bass eat any thing they can fit their mouths around. And if its a big bass. That's anything from adult bluegill to bullfrogs , snakes and even small ducklings.
Top water is not a gimmick. It's a proven technique.
This is in ohio. A long ways away from soflabasser. Yet just as effective. All across the globe top water is utilized.
I wouldn't give up on it. Like I said I've caught bass top water mid day in the blistering heat. But it is definitely most effective (for me) with an overcast and a slight breeze. Also dusk and dawn.. there are many versions of top water, I suggest a buzz bait , soft plastic frog (something like the rage toad) or a classic jitterbug. Also can't go wrong with the classic popper . I'm not sure who the first to make one is.. but my favorites are the rebel pop-r and the rapala skitter pop.
Also walking baits can be deadly. Like the Zara spook. Im a huge rapala fan so I use their version , the skitter walk. Alot of companies have one but I suggest you nail a couple on some others suggested above before you get frustrated trying to walk the dog.
It's supposed to be fun ! Keep an open mind. And go get you a hawg. (Top water style ?)
Good luck.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I guess I'm not really understanding the question? You mean it has a small window like the time of day it's effective or just the locations it can be effective? Neither is the case, that's for sure.
Some days the fish will be feeding on and near the surface and topwater will be the best way to go from start to finish. This past month has been a great buzzbait bite for me all day. Not only catching numbers, but big fish including my biggest LMB of the year so far. Today was another good day for the buzzbait and a frog as well. The frog produced the largest of the day but the buzzbait was getting more bites, which is pretty common for me.
I'd rather fish a jig or plastic than topwater, so it's certainly not just that I like fishing topwater.
Turkey sandwich reply :
What they said, lol.
The thing is, all of the different techniques, lures, presentations, etc are tools. They can all be effective when fished in the right conditions, or useless/frustrating when fished under the wrong conditions. Learning those conditions is part of what makes this sport a different challenge every day.
My .02 on top water... I've caught excellent numbers on all of the baits mentioned above, and have generally found that top water fish tend to be bigger than average fish.
I guess it might be helpful to ask where, how, and when are you fishing poppers and frogs? There are plenty of folks here capable of giving you pointers and upping that success rate.
lecisnith reply :
Top water baits, like all bass baits, are an issue of, "right place, right time". I've had fish completely ignore a weightless Senko, which, by all common logic, is supposed to be the one fail-safe for bass fisherman and then turn around and destroy a buzzbait. Sometimes a hollow-body frog is the only thing that is possible to throw in a clump of lily pads without wanting to throw yourself in after getting hung up 10 consecutive casts. Do yourself a favor and choose sunrise and sunset and find a bank with reeds, pads, cattails, grass, or some other kind of cover, and do nothing but cast along that stuff with whatever topwater you choose. You'll get confidence in it.
"hamma" reply :
Since your name is Detroithiker, Im imagining your fishing some smallie waters. And since you mentioned ability to move to different sections of a lake, Im thinking you have a boat.
Do you fish in the early morning?
Early morning smallies on topwaters is EPIC! Fantastic! and Phenominal! How a bass angler in such a locale, could even consider negating topwaters, just boggles my mind.
Before your next fishing trip,... Go to your local tackleshop or basspro, buy a rebel pop-r with a white belly, Use a med action rod, with 10 pd test green stren line, attach the pop-r via a small snap. Head out early in the morning just as the suns rising, with a slight ripple or even a laydowned waters surface.. squirt some scent on the pop-r, to mask yours and factories scent, cast it out as far as you can over any semi-shallow cover, be it rockpiles, weeds, laydowns etc.,... allow the rings from the splash to disipate. Slowly reel up to the pop-r, Just before the line pulls on the lure, give a quick twitch to the rods tip. This should create a distinctive "BA-Bloop" sound. Wait till the rings disipate again, repeat.
If this lure doesnt get slammed by a smallie, there's either none around, or you made to much noise. And if you think the waters too deep? smallies will come from 40 to 50 feet of water to slam a topwater.,..
As for hollowed bodied frogs? any emergent weeds can hold bass, in the summertime til those weeds die off, especially under clear skies with sun beating down,. I just cast it out on top of the weeds and slowly, consistently, reel it back to me.
These two techniques are, and have been, staples for many years now. and if they fail? theres no fish there, slowly move along and continue to fish, you should get a hit eventually. Be diligent, stick to it. Sooner or later, your going to get a bite
scaleface reply :
I dont stick with them for long if I'm not getting bit . If the conditions are right , clouds , slight chop on the water I will give them a go but they better produce fast for me or I'm switching .
detroithiker reply :
On 9/17/2016 at 7:49 PM, Keith "Hamma" Hatch said:Since your name is Detroithiker, Im imagining your fishing some smallie waters. And since you mentioned ability to move to different sections of a lake, Im thinking you have a boat.
Do you fish in the early morning?
Early morning smallies on topwaters is EPIC! Fantastic! and Phenominal! How a bass angler in such a locale, could even consider negating topwaters, just boggles my mind.
Before your next fishing trip,... Go to your local tackleshop or basspro, buy a rebel pop-r with a white belly, Use a med action rod, with 10 pd test green stren line, attach the pop-r via a small snap. Head out early in the morning just as the suns rising, with a slight ripple or even a laydowned waters surface.. squirt some scent on the pop-r, to mask yours and factories scent, cast it out as far as you can over any semi-shallow cover, be it rockpiles, weeds, laydowns etc.,... allow the rings from the splash to disipate. Slowly reel up to the pop-r, Just before the line pulls on the lure, give a quick twitch to the rods tip. This should create a distinctive "BA-Bloop" sound. Wait till the rings disipate again, repeat.
If this lure doesnt get slammed by a smallie, there's either none around, or you made to much noise. And if you think the waters too deep? smallies will come from 40 to 50 feet of water to slam a topwater.,..
As for hollowed bodied frogs? any emergent weeds can hold bass, in the summertime til those weeds die off, especially under clear skies with sun beating down,. I just cast it out on top of the weeds and slowly, consistently, reel it back to me.
These two techniques are, and have been, staples for many years now. and if they fail? theres no fish there, slowly move along and continue to fish, you should get a hit eventually. Be diligent, stick to it. Sooner or later, your going to get a bite
Thank you for taking the time to give me all the tips, I am new and trying to learn.
Its hard to avoid getting frustrated when its you lack of skill that is the problem, nothing worse than being angry with your self right?
On 9/17/2016 at 8:34 PM, scaleface said:I dont stick with them for long if I'm not getting bit . If the conditions are right , clouds , slight chop on the water I will give them a go but they better produce fast for me or I'm switching .
See! now this is exactly what I do every time!
I get no action and switch to something like a square bill or drag a worm and BAMB! I get hit right away, this is what destroys my confidence in the lures.
flyfisher reply :
until water temps drop to below 60, i have some sort of topwater tied on all times and this year, it has been 2 or 3 different ones. I have enjoyed a really good topwater bite this season at all times of day and night. It is about the situation you are presented and your ability to entice a strike with the topwater.
Some of my bigger fish on topwater have been caught mid day near cover.
"hamma" reply :
Often,.. the only way to gain confidence in a "new to you lure" is to go out and fish just that lure, nothing else. Stick to that lure! Dont get mad, be stringent on learning the new lure,..or if you still get mad?, you can use that anger to be defiant towards your lack of knowledge. Get it in your mind that you are going to learn this topwater thing no matter what. You can even go so far as to just leave all other type lures home. Instead, take a few different topwaters with you ,.like a heddons torpedo for choppier water surface, or a zara spook for laydown surface,.. etc.
If you do fish smallie waters from a boat, find a rocky lake with a bunch of submerged rocky hazards, go out in the early morning and fish those hazards with that pop-r,.. It will work, smallies love crayfish and those rocky hazards, should have some, at least most lakes rockpiles will
I know that when you have a technique or lure that works for you, its difficult to avoid using it, when what you are doing isnt working. But, although getting stuck on just a few lures will work to put some fish in the boat, you will catch more with more techniques
I think there's a topwater thread here in the Tackle forum, describing tips and techniques on how to use each topwater lure. check it out
Jaderose reply :
To me and where I fish the most, there are 2 types of fishing. Hollow body froggin and everything else. The lake I fish the most has a LOT of little fingers and little areas that are FULL of surface muck. Without a frog about 1/3 to 1/2 the lake would be shutoff to me. I typically start the day fishing everything else until the sun gets high in the sky and then I switch to a frog and the REAL ACTION starts. Those big girls go up into those grarly areas and just lie in wait for me to throw my frog in there and then KABOOM! The fight is on. The closest thing to hand to hand combat you can have with a fish. I LOOOVE it. BUT...more than just thinking it's a hoot, it is also very very productive. Do NOT give up on Frogs and top water in general. When that bite is on, NOTHING is more productive and will produce some huge fish. My PB is ALSO on Top water as I suspect a lot of guy's are.
Raul reply :
"Is it wrong to think top water has small window of opportunity?"
Yup.
You got to get this through your head: you will never know if you don´t try.
Like with every lure is a matter of timing: the right location, the right presentation, the right conditions.
Fishes in trees reply :
I often try top water stuff throughout the day, but I don't stick with it very long if I don't have success. If you're fishing around standing timber and you think the fish are suspended I think a popper or a spook is worth a try.
MIbassyaker reply :
I'll at least try a topwater almost every time I'm out, with the following rules of thumb:
--cloudy, overcast, dawn, dusk, low light I will always try a topwater for awhile before giving up. Here I like walking baits, buzzbaits, propbaits.
--When the sun is out, I'll keep a topwater handy in case I find shade -- i'll zip a popper or propbait into the shade of a dock or under an overhanging tree.
--I'll try a hollow bodied frog in pads/slop any time.
--I might also try a few random topwater casts here and there any time there isn't otherwise an obvious pattern.
--If I'm catching them I stick with it; if I'm throwing one for awhile without getting a blowup, I'll put it away.
Nerdy Fisherman reply :
Topwater fishing is definitely not your normal bass fishing with rubber worms. A lot of it does vary on location. For instance in PA i do extremely well on poppers and walking baits especially at dawn or dusk, but working these lures down weedlines has produced fish for me at all times of day. I've never really got a response on the hollow bodied lures up here though. I mean, I catch fish on them, but normally if I'm gonna fish topwater I'm throwing a Heddon One Knocker Spook, an X-Rap Popper, or a Jitterbug. Try different cadences for the lures as well you'd be surprised how a slightly different action on a topwater could change your entire day of fishing. Hope this helps!
WRB reply :
On 9/17/2016 at 12:18 PM, detroithiker said:
Is there only a small window of opportunity to use them, like dusk and dawn?I am new and I have no faith in top water frogs and poppers.
Seems like a given bass fisherman would only use it cuz its exciting, same man could be more successful with other baits.
I know they can work but I always quit using it cuz I think the lack of a bite means I should be using something else.
I have watched every video I can find about using top water and I understand where I should be casting each.
Every time I use them I get nothing, I always try to devote a full hour to learning them but nothing happens, it could just be that the conditions have never been right and I need to learn to read those conditions better.
I have never caught a fish on top water and just don't think it could ever be the best choice for a given lake, it could be the best choice for a spot but never the best choice when you could go to a different section of the lake with better odds.
Am I wrong to doubt the reliability of topwater baits like hollow body frogs or poppers?
Please remember I am new and trying to learn
Welcome to bass fishing.
What you have read and learned about top water bite being higher percentage during dusk and dawn is correct....if the bass active feeding near the surface at that those time periods. Most bass anglers like to catch bass on top water lures followed by faster moving lures because it's fun see bass strike a top water and most bass anglers like to cast retreive faster moving lures.
When to use top water lures is usually trail and error like most other presentations. I look for evidence of surface feeding activity, a swirl, splash, baitfish, frogs, terrestrial critters swimming on or near the surface any time of the day or night.
The reason bass anglers have lots of lures is the fish have a mind of their own and we don't know what they are thinking.
If your goal is to catch top water fish keep trying, if you simply want to catch bass don't get locked onto any one type of lure.
Tom
Bradfords Gone! reply :
I use a general rule of thumb around dusk and dawn I will throw topwater just about anywhere. Later in the day I throw close to cover. The only difference is I fish in water that is no deeper than 8 feet. Hope that helps.
Bankbeater reply :
Last year I caught bass on topwater on every outing in the spring, summer, and fall. It didn't matter if the sun was out, cloudy, night, or day. This year I could count the topwater bites I've had on one hand.
Jaderose reply :
On 9/18/2016 at 1:41 AM, WRB said:
The reason bass anglers have lots of lures is the fish have a mind of their own and we don't know what they are thinking.
Tom
Yeah...that's exactly the reason. At least this is exactly the reason I tell the wife. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that we just like gear.
detroithiker reply :
On 9/18/2016 at 6:51 AM, Bankbeater said:Last year I caught bass on topwater on every outing in the spring, summer, and fall. It didn't matter if the sun was out, cloudy, night, or day. This year I could count the topwater bites I've had on one hand.
Now this is good to learn, knowing that there will be times that a good bait just will not work and that those times could last for days weeks even most of a season is very helpful info, thanks.
The more I learn the less I need!
"hamma" reply :
On 9/18/2016 at 10:09 AM, detroithiker said:Now this is good to learn, knowing that there will be times that a good bait just will not work and that those times could last for days weeks even most of a season is very helpful info, thanks.
The more I learn the less I need!
OH,.. Contraire!
The more you learn about bass fishing the more you "will" need.
More lures, more rods, more line, more tackle boxes, more boats (as in ,... puddle jumper, canoe, bass boat, kayak, etc:). and yes ,.even more knowledge,.....The "needs"???? are almost endless. Ive been bass fishing for 50 years, and im still learning, as new techniques evolve, and still buying, to apply those new techniques.
Although some like the senko, and ned rig Ive yet to jump in on, Im sure I'll get to them some day.,..Its more like I have older techniques that do much the same.
timsford reply :
This time of year especially, but really anytime the fish are feeding I use buzzbaits, walkers, and poppers quite a bit. It's like any other technique, if I'm getting bites or seeing fish feeding on top then I'm throwing them until I stop getting bites. If not then I turn to other techniques.
lou304 reply :
My fishing buddy and I fished a small(20 boats) team tournament on southern lake champlain last Sunday. We finished 3rd and almost all of out fish were caught on topwater (hollow body frog and Spook) and all 5 of our keepers were.
I fished another tournament in July and finished 9th, and again, all my fish were caught on topwater, this time a Whopper Plopper and black Cavitron buzzbait. I didn't even start throwing the buzzbait until 11am.
If the body of water and the conditions are right, topwater baits are great producers, and many times produce bigger fish. If you give up on topwaters you'll be missing out on a lot of fun and some great fishing.
detroithiker reply :
I guess I just need to fish them at the right time, they have a purpose, and a very specific time they work, I would really like to learn to use them and develop some confidence that throwing them actually going to get some bites, so far when I throw them I spend an hour at a time trying to make them work and the whole time in the back of my mind I am thinking I could be throwing something else and actually catching fish, I think my lack of faith in the lure could be hampering my ability to use them correctly.
Yeajray231 reply :
Ironically . I usually catch hogs or total dinks on top water.
DrMarlboro92 reply :
I think it's more of an issue of where the fish are and how they are feeding that determines how well you will do with top water; or any other bait for that matter. The body of water seems to have a lot to do with it as well.
If I'm fishing the Chickahominy (limited experience here) or the tidal James, all I'm going to use is top water with the occasional shallow jerk bait thrown in. The reason is that I'm usually fishing creeks with 6 inches to 6 feet of water; these bass are always feeding on the blueback herring that are feeding on things that have washed out of the grass with the tide, so top water will always be effective only needing a change in cadence based on the time of year. In the winter I will slow down and only use poppers, walking baits, or wake baits with quite a bit of hesitation in their retrieve. In the spring/fall I will use faster retrieves and burn buzzbaits, where as in the summer I will burn wake baits. And in the late fall as the hydrilla beds die frogs become really productive. I've also noticed that wake baits do better on pressured water where other top water just doesn't work.
Now, does that mean I will do the same thing on Smith Mountain, claytor, lake anna, or the south holston? No, simply because the conditions aren't the same. I know in smith mountain that in the summer I follow the shad deep and dropshot, or Carolina rig, and in the fall/spring I follow the shad into shallow coves, mimicking them with jerks, spinnerbaits, lipless, or square bill crankbaits. In claytor I'm more likely to search for rock bottoms and fish jigs with massive craw trailers, and in Lake Anna I'm more likely to be productive with senkos on grass beds and cover.
All baits are tools, and it's about learning to use those tools to your advantage. Figuring out the conditions they will work, and what the bass are feeding on is the first step in figuring out if top water will work. At least this is what I've found to be true.
Swamp Rat reply :
I have been bass fishing for 50 years, and will say that I love catching bass on whatever. But, keep in mind that bass are ambush predators, and that they love to attack from below. I ALWAYS have a hollow body frog on a rod, if not 2, and always have a buzzbait tied on as well. Depending on weather, I might also have a topwater treble-hooked hardbait tied on, but not always. A hollow body frog and a buzzbait will always work, especially on days ending in "y". Detroit, just fish them exclusively a couple of trips, do not take anything else with you. Fish topwater, look for patterns, and you will have very reliable tools and techniques to add to your repertoire.
bigbill reply :
Topwater? All day long like the McDonald's breakfast menu. Rebel pop R, spooks, prop baits. I like casting along side the Lilly pads , past them then walking my bait past the pads. I can draw fish out of hiding in the pads. I do not cast into the pads so I don't disturb multiple bass. I pick them off one at a time. Walk the dog with a 1-2-3 pause presentation. It's skill that catches fish. Go out and make it happen.
Ratherbfishing reply :
It is wrong to say "small window of opportunity" but not so incorrect to say "smaller window of opportunity." Conditions (angle of the sun, weather, water clarity, etc) and where the fish are in the water column (time of year, etc) will influence if/when a topwater bait is most appropriate. There will always (or almost always) be some shallow bass but would you rather spend all day catching one or two topwater bass (when it is not suitable) or go deeper (when it's more suitable) to catch 10 or 20 or 30 bass? A friend of mine would toss a jitterbug out in open water at noon on a bright August day and while I didn't argue with him, I was not the least bit surprised when he didn't get bit, either.
Oh, the ONE clear exception (I can think of) is fishing through the moss at noon in the summer. That is the one time I can think of where topwater (frogs, mice) can actually do better than other methods.
detroithiker reply :
On 9/18/2016 at 6:51 AM, Bankbeater said:Last year I caught bass on topwater on every outing in the spring, summer, and fall. It didn't matter if the sun was out, cloudy, night, or day. This year I could count the topwater bites I've had on one hand.
I have picked up so many topwater lures and get nothing, I know I am doing something wrong, I just can't figure out what it is.
On 10/7/2016 at 12:05 AM, Ratherbfishing said:It is wrong to say "small window of opportunity" but not so incorrect to say "smaller window of opportunity." Conditions (angle of the sun, weather, water clarity, etc) and where the fish are in the water column (time of year, etc) will influence if/when a topwater bait is most appropriate. There will always (or almost always) be some shallow bass but would you rather spend all day catching one or two topwater bass (when it is not suitable) or go deeper (when it's more suitable) to catch 10 or 20 or 30 bass? A friend of mine would toss a jitterbug out in open water at noon on a bright August day and while I didn't argue with him, I was not the least bit surprised when he didn't get bit, either.
Oh, the ONE clear exception (I can think of) is fishing through the moss at noon in the summer. That is the one time I can think of where topwater (frogs, mice) can actually do better than other methods.
I just want to learn to use that type of lure.
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 10/11/2016 at 11:20 AM, detroithiker said:I have picked up so many topwater lures and get nothing, I know I am doing something wrong, I just can't figure out what it is.
Some lakes just don't produce well on top. I know of a lake that is loaded with fish that are easy to catch on jigs and plastics, but it's a very rare day they'll come to the surface for a bait. If you're catching fish with other baits, I wouldn't get too stressed about it.
Master Bait'r reply :
Topwater is a million different things. Some have a very narrow window while others seem to slay 24/7/365, and results vary from person to person, lake to lake, etc... Basically what I'm saying is get out there and fish a ton. Only you can figure that out for yourself with your baits and on your waters. We are just a bunch of idiots on the internet swinging wildly in the dark 
the reel ess reply :
No, but's it's wrong to keep throwing them when there are no takers. I usually have one or two different ones tied on though. A couple times this summer I had fish take a Spook in the middle of the day. It would only happen when there was cloud cover.
Frogs are a totally different thing. They'll hit the frog on a mat all day sometimes.
standman reply :
I fish mostly residential ponds..... Without top water, I would have to give up fishing for most of the summer.
This is an old carp infested canal that happens to have some nice bass in it.
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