With Today's Bass Fishing Technology, Is There Any Place For An Old School Reel Other Than Cool Fact 2025
Daniel Lin reply :
Went by the pawn shop again today, found that someone pawned off a bunch of old school Abu and Abu Garcia Ambassadeurs on decent rods, all going for about $40-$50.
One in particular caught my eye, a Garcia Ambassadeur 5000 ("Product of ABU Sweden") on a 6'6" MH (probably M by today's standards) Fenwick Eagle for $45. I almost impulse bought it, but in terms of rod power and length, it's totally redundant in context of what I already have. But, that ABU signature Red. So attractive.
I don't want to accidentally get in the business of collecting reels that will never be fished again, so I ask: What sort of applications could I apply such a rod/reel to? In comparison to modern reels, how do they differ compared to what I'm currently using? Is there a checklist of things I should refer to when inspecting an older round reel before purchase?
chris55552 reply :
I recently fished an old abu Garcia 5000 "red" off the bottom of the lake, apparently the water protected the reel from rust. I cleaned it up, lubricated it and im currently using it just as much as my newer reels and im pretty happy with it. Great reel, more powerful, more open so I use it primarily for spinnerbaits and jigs matched up with a 7' MH all star graphite rod.
chris55552 reply :
I would simply make sure the worm gear and pawl work correctly before purchasing, it wouldn't cost much to fix either of the two but that's two less things you will need to fix if they are working correctly. Im hearing lots of stories that older rods and reels are quickly becoming collectable antiques so hang on to what you got.
Daniel Lin reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 9:06 AM, chris55552 said:I recently fished an old abu Garcia 5000 "red" off the bottom of the lake, apparently the water protected the reel from rust. I cleaned it up, lubricated it and im currently using it just as much as my newer reels and im pretty happy with it. Great reel, more powerful, more open so I use it primarily for spinnerbaits and jigs matched up with a 7' MH all star graphite rod.
So basically what you're saying is, decent power cranking reel with free rod for $45?
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
The ambassadors are built like tanks. They have a high line capacity making them a good choice for throwing big swim baits and musky spinners, bait fishing for catfish, all kinds of apps
Fisher-O-men reply :
I have a few that I use mainly for the salt. They cast like a dream and when a fish is running you have to look at the spool to tell if drag is being taken. The clicker on the 6000 series make them perfect for the Cats!
Daniel Lin reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 9:23 AM, Fisher-O-men said:I have a few that I use mainly for the salt. They cast like a dream and when a fish is running you have to look at the spool to tell if drag is being taken. The clicker on the 6000 series make them perfect for the Cats!
I'm pretty sure the 5000 I had in my hands today had a drag clicker?
new2BC4bass reply :
Wow. Nice looking reel. I have an old black 5001C. Never used it cause I couldn't learn to cast it. Didn't know the first thing about baitcast reels, didn't know anyone using one, and Internet wasn't invented by Al Gore yet. Spooled it up with some 17# mono (after installing the plastic arbor) a few weeks ago. I'm sure cleaning out the old dried grease and re-lubing would be a big help, but it still cast very well. I don't care for the small handle though. That reel has quite a bit larger handle. Not as easy to work as a reel with a thumb bar, but I can live with that. 
I'm thinking I need to start catfishing so I'll have a valid reason to keep it. 
Fisher-O-men reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 9:44 AM, Daniel Lin said:I'm pretty sure the 5000 I had in my hands today had a drag clicker?
That is a much older reel than any I have. If it has a clicker it is not in the same place as the 6000 series. It would be a slide switch on the edge of the left side, just below the blue and yellow squares.
Bluebasser86 reply :
They make great muskie and pike reels, or for tossing big baits for bass. I use a newer Abu on one of my flathead rods but I wouldn't want one without a bait clicker. They'll still work, I just have a tendency to fall asleep in the boat when I'm on the river or lake at night fishing for catfish.
Fishes in trees reply :
I'd echo what's been said earlier. Those reels are ok for throwing lures, but they would be great for cat fishing and other fishing applications as well. If for a couple of hundred dollars you could get 4 or 5 cat fishing set ups, that would be a good deal. Later on, you could pair them with some better catfish rods.
It seems like a reasonable long term investment in fishing gear to me. Are all the reels as clean as the one in the picture?
Josh Smith reply :
Dude. Buy. It.
I have been working with these more than ever and you would be surprised what they're capable of! Five or six bearings and 50+ yard test casts? Yes, Sir!
If there is a 5500 in there, you might get it instead. Stock 23IPT while the 5000 might need upgraded.
Josh
tomustang reply :
Any bigger lure or bigger fish target
Daniel Lin reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 8:38 PM, Josh Smith said:Dude. Buy. It.
I have been working with these more than ever and you would be surprised what they're capable of! Five or six bearings and 50+ yard test casts? Yes, Sir!
If there is a 5500 in there, you might get it instead. Stock 23IPT while the 5000 might need upgraded.
Josh
5500 you say?
A little more boat rash, the grips are a little bit wobbly, but overall I think it's still ok, although I haven't examined it quite as closely. I also don't know if it has a drag clicker or not. It's definitely also a little more modern than the 5000 I posted earlier. It's on a 6'6" M Castaway of unknown vintage. Is it really worth $80 over $45 though?
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
The reel itself is worth about $50-$65. It's more a matter if the extra is worth it to you personally.
BobP reply :
I've never used an Abu 5000-6000 reel that I enjoyed for bass fishing. They are good for heavy lures and big fish, and great for trolling but otherwise I prefer a modern design low profile reel.
Josh Smith reply :
Here's some fun stuff:
This is on my 5500c3. It's a bearing idler that I lightened. I find that these things have way too much inertia.
I never liked that little plastic bushing in there. Too much slop. A $10 bearing and a couple small skateboard wheel washers work as an excellent replacement.
The red circles indicate bearing locations.
I've considered doing these mods on old 5000 and 5500 reels for money; not much, but enough to pay, say, DVT for a couple rods I want built. I even looked into advertising here, but I wouldn't have anything left since the work is so specialized and I'd limit the number of reels to one per week, anyway. I just have too much else going on.
I might write up a tutorial on how to do this, though. Reels are not overly hard to work on and lend themselves well to gunsmithing techniques. My biggest problem was figuring out part numbers or modern equivalents. For example, back when I was a kid tinkering with this stuff, one could still find faster gears in kits (basically just 5500 gears) for the 5000 to speed up its pokey retrieve.
I take a few (well, about 20) years off from serious fishing, and I come to find out they discontinued the pinion gear, and the kits are going for like $45 apiece as collectors' items on eBay!
It was quite irritating.
I think I have everything figured out again, though.
That old red 5000, by the way, might just get a stainless frame today. I have one setting here and it's tempting. Should make it more comfortable, too, as it will convert it from a four-screw (that fourth screw really chafes!) to a three-screw. Yeah, I think I'll get that stainless reel soaking in some Dawn.
Are these reels worth it? Definitely.
Regards,
Josh
Fisher-O-men reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 10:08 PM, Daniel Lin said:5500 you say?
A little more boat rash, the grips are a little bit wobbly, but overall I think it's still ok, although I haven't examined it quite as closely. I also don't know if it has a drag clicker or not. It's definitely also a little more modern than the 5000 I posted earlier. It's on a 6'6" M Castaway of unknown vintage. Is it really worth $80 over $45 though?
Definitely no clicker on that reel, but the line capacity is insane.
Raul reply :
No, there´s no room for an old school reel with today´s technology, trash those old school reels.
tholmes reply :
I use the round Ambassadeurs almost exclusively. Sure, they're big and heavy, but so am I. Due to having very large hands, and limited flexibility, they just fit me more comfortably than low-profile reels. Plus, they're easy to work on and parts are still available, even for 40 year old models.
My current line up includes: 2 4600C USA Bass, 4600 CI, 4600 C3, ProMax 3600C, 5000, 5000C, 5500C3, 5600 CL Rocket, 5600 WS, 5600 C4 Mag, and a Record 50.
Tom
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 1:38 AM, Raul said:No, there´s no room for an old school reel with today´s technology, trash those old school reels.
Surely you're not serious..?
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
he means send them too me!!!!On 10/3/2014 at 4:12 AM, Josh Smith said:Surely you're not serious..?
roadwarrior reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 1:45 AM, tholmes said:I use the round Ambassadeurs almost exclusively. Sure, they're big and heavy, but so am I. Due to having very large hands, and limited flexibility, they just fit me more comfortably than low-profile reels. Plus, they're easy to work on and parts are still available, even for 40 year old models.
My current line up includes: 2 4600C USA Bass, 4600 CI, 4600 C3, ProMax 3600C, 5000, 5000C, 5500C3, 5600 CL Rocket, 5600 WS, 5600 C4 Mag, and a Record 50.
Tom
Wow!
I can hardly imagine that line-up.
OntarioFishingGuy reply :
On 10/2/2014 at 11:28 PM, Josh Smith said:Here's some fun stuff:
This is on my 5500c3. It's a bearing idler that I lightened. I find that these things have way too much inertia.
I never liked that little plastic bushing in there. Too much slop. A $10 bearing and a couple small skateboard wheel washers work as an excellent replacement.
The red circles indicate bearing locations.
I've considered doing these mods on old 5000 and 5500 reels for money; not much, but enough to pay, say, DVT for a couple rods I want built. I even looked into advertising here, but I wouldn't have anything left since the work is so specialized and I'd limit the number of reels to one per week, anyway. I just have too much else going on.
I might write up a tutorial on how to do this, though. Reels are not overly hard to work on and lend themselves well to gunsmithing techniques. My biggest problem was figuring out part numbers or modern equivalents. For example, back when I was a kid tinkering with this stuff, one could still find faster gears in kits (basically just 5500 gears) for the 5000 to speed up its pokey retrieve.
I take a few (well, about 20) years off from serious fishing, and I come to find out they discontinued the pinion gear, and the kits are going for like $45 apiece as collectors' items on eBay!
It was quite irritating.
I think I have everything figured out again, though.
That old red 5000, by the way, might just get a stainless frame today. I have one setting here and it's tempting. Should make it more comfortable, too, as it will convert it from a four-screw (that fourth screw really chafes!) to a three-screw. Yeah, I think I'll get that stainless reel soaking in some Dawn.
Are these reels worth it? Definitely.
Regards,
Josh
Really a beautiful reel.
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 7:31 AM, OntarioFishingGuy said:Really a beautiful reel.
Thank you! 
I changed the frame to stainless, swapped the gears to something slightly more modern so it's as quiet as my 2014 5500c3, and put some newer line on it as that other stuff was a couple years old. I did swap the brake plate out while I was at it, just because.
Prettier?
What's more, there's just nothing that modern reels can do that this one can't. It's as smooth as most modern reels, has more bearings than most of them, and I just can't think of anything that I need that this won't provide.
Lessee:
Retrieve is 23IPT or so.
Test casts at 40+ yards. Practical casts on the lake are 20-30+ yards depending on lure.
I can palm it. I do have large hands, but whatever.
There's plenty of blacklash control. Two small brakes and my thumb do just fine. On modern reels, if I can't use my thumb, I fix 'em until I can, dangit!
I've never been spooled. There's like 125 or 150 yards of braid on there to play with before it hits the rather substantial (25lb mono) backing.
Sure, I have modern stuff. None of it beats this reel. I bought the modern stuff so I had a couple more retrieve rates, so I have retrieves of 23IPT, 26IPT, and 30IPT (4.7:1, 5.3:1, and 6.3:1 on round reels of the 5000 size).
My retrieve rate doesn't drop that much with these wide spools, either, if I am fishing long distance.
This rod and reel have taken many, many bass, a huge buffalo fish, bunches of catfish, and quite a few other fish that I caught while "seeing what was out there" that would have torn many newer bass rigs up... badly.
I'm playing with the idea of putting another dog on the anti-reverse, too. While I don't mind the delay before the dog catches, a second one would provide some redundancy that I appreciate, and it would also provide a faster catch. Instant anti-reverse still feels kinda' funny to me.
It's an idea have that I'll play with if I can find the time to do so.
Regards,
Josh
greentrout reply :
Things are relative. Go down South in states like Alabama and Mississippi, especially in rural areas, you will see plenty of bassers using
round Ambassadeur reels.
Old school basser...
Daniel Lin reply :
Ok, here's a link of what's available. I really don't know that much about the technical details of these reels, and I'm having a pretty tough time finding specs on them that don't regard to collecting. Hopefully someone here with a bit more knowledge can help me out a bit
The photos of the rod follow the reel they're on, but I think I can probably negotiate some rod-swapping among them in a purchase.
The first red reel and the silver 5500c3 are priced at 80 (not sure why they priced the red one at 80), the second red reel is priced at 40 (this is the one I'm most interested in) and the last black reel is priced at like 45 but is on a 5'6" Lews pistol-grip rod ("Ceramic Guide Inserts"!)
http://imgur.com/a/075GJ#0
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
id grab um up.but then again i collect them make a deal on just the reels 75 for all .On 10/3/2014 at 10:11 AM, Daniel Lin said:Ok, here's a link of what's available. I really don't know that much about the technical details of these reels, and I'm having a pretty tough time finding specs on them that don't regard to collecting. Hopefully someone here with a bit more knowledge can help me out a bit
The photos of the rod follow the reel they're on, but I think I can probably negotiate some rod-swapping among them in a purchase.
The first red reel and the silver 5500c3 are priced at 80 (not sure why they priced the red one at 80), the second red reel is priced at 40 (this is the one I'm most interested in) and the last black reel is priced at like 45 but is on a 5'6" Lews pistol-grip rod ("Ceramic Guide Inserts"!)
http://imgur.com/a/075GJ#0
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 10:11 AM, Daniel Lin said:Ok, here's a link of what's available. I really don't know that much about the technical details of these reels, and I'm having a pretty tough time finding specs on them that don't regard to collecting. Hopefully someone here with a bit more knowledge can help me out a bit
The photos of the rod follow the reel they're on, but I think I can probably negotiate some rod-swapping among them in a purchase.
The first red reel and the silver 5500c3 are priced at 80 (not sure why they priced the red one at 80), the second red reel is priced at 40 (this is the one I'm most interested in) and the last black reel is priced at like 45 but is on a 5'6" Lews pistol-grip rod ("Ceramic Guide Inserts"!)
http://imgur.com/a/075GJ#0
Hello,
The red reel is a late '70s to early '80s 5000. It has 3.8:1 gears unless they've been changed out, and if they've been changed out, it's a 4.7:1. These are not as as slow as they sound. In that size reel, a 5.3:1 ratio would give you a 26IPT retrieve, so you're looking at around 23IPT if the faster gears are installed.
The 5500c reel is an excellent reel, and was made about the same time as the 5000. It does have the faster retrieve of 4.7:1, and it uses bearings instead of bushings. This is only really an issue if you plan to throw light lures. Bearings help light lures go further. Otherwise, it's the same reel as the 5000.
The 5500c3 has 5.3:1 gearing for a 26IPT retrieve. It's the newer design wherein the spool rotates around the axle, while the older designs had the axle rotating with the spool. It uses three bearings: The spool rides on two, and there is one on the right side of the worm gear. It may or may not have one on the driveshaft. In my opinion it's not worth $80 as there are some places where you can buy these lightly used for that amount, and I've even seen some new old stock versions for $90 and $95. I would probably offer $45 for one in that shape.
They all look relatively well cared for but used heavily. There's some wear on the 5000's right hand knob where the axle might be trying to come through. This would happen if the shims it's supposed to ride on are gone or worn through.
Any one of those you buy, you're going to want to have gone through and fixed. DVT is the site supporting vendor who does this and his prices seem very reasonable. If you decide to do it yourself, there are a number of us who can help you.
The Fenwick rod is worth buying. I have one over in the corner of this room. Unfortunately, the tip snapped off this one and so I don't use it for much. I much prefer pistol grips and I think you will, too, if you give it a chance!
I hope some of this helped.
Regards,
Josh
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Josh your good .that shim cast control issue i had not seen that till u mentioned it.your doin your homework.im impressedOn 10/3/2014 at 10:38 AM, Josh Smith said:Hello,
The red reel is a late '70s to early '80s 5000. It has 3.8:1 gears unless they've been changed out, and if they've been changed out, it's a 4.7:1. These are not as as slow as they sound. In that size reel, a 5.3:1 ratio would give you a 26IPT retrieve, so you're looking at around 23IPT if the faster gears are installed.
The 5500c reel is an excellent reel, and was made about the same time as the 5000. It does have the faster retrieve of 4.7:1, and it uses bearings instead of bushings. This is only really an issue if you plan to throw light lures. Bearings help light lures go further. Otherwise, it's the same reel as the 5000.
The 5500c3 has 5.3:1 gearing for a 26IPT retrieve. It's the newer design wherein the spool rotates around the axle, while the older designs had the axle rotating with the spool. It uses three bearings: The spool rides on two, and there is one on the right side of the worm gear. It may or may not have one on the driveshaft. In my opinion it's not worth $80 as there are some places where you can buy these lightly used for that amount, and I've even seen some new old stock versions for $90 and $95. I would probably offer $45 for one in that shape.
They all look relatively well cared for but used heavily. There's some wear on the 5000's right hand knob where the axle might be trying to come through. This would happen if the shims it's supposed to ride on are gone or worn through.
Any one of those you buy, you're going to want to have gone through and fixed. DVT is the site supporting vendor who does this and his prices seem very reasonable. If you decide to do it yourself, there are a number of us who can help you.
The Fenwick rod is worth buying. I have one over in the corner of this room. Unfortunately, the tip snapped off this one and so I don't use it for much. I much prefer pistol grips and I think you will, too, if you give it a chance!
I hope some of this helped.
Regards,
Josh
Daniel Lin reply :
Josh, you are a hero.
I'm really thinking about the second 5000 that's on the Fenwick rod for $40. While it would be nice to have the more ornately engraved sideplates of the first 5000, that one's going for 80 on a whatever-rod and it kinda operates like a bucket of bolts. There's a bunch of things obviously loose in it and I'm not sure I want to arse myself to get everything back to spec on it.
It's very encouraging though, that it appears that modding an old 5000 to be modern-spec isn't too hard. A couple questions in that regard. Is it possible to put a modern handle on it? I'm really not a huge fan of the cylindrical knobs and much prefer the flatter paddle knobs of modern reels. Also, how easy is it to mod one of the thumb-hood things onto an old 5000, kinda like the 5500C3 that I posted and Abu Garcia's modern round reels?
You've got me very interested in a modern restoration, old school meets new school project now, in the same vein as the 70's Camaro I saw at a car show once that had a modern Corvette engine in it and a modernized cockpit. $40 to kick off such a project (and get a decent rod too) seems like a pretty good deal.
Additionally, I should also mention that a large part of my interest in one of these reels is not only a slower-than-6.3:1 ratio reel for bass fishing, but also for potential future saltwater and hell, maybe I'll give catfish a try too.
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 11:14 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:Josh your good .that shim cast control issue i had not seen that till u mentioned it.your doin your homework.im impressed
Thank you sir. I'm sure if you bought enough bargain-basement abused reels from eBay like I have, you'd find trends too. Dad and I always maintained our reels, and so a lot of these negligence issues were foreign. Heck, after toothpaste, the first thing I recall seeing in a tube was Abu Garcia reel grease!
Still, the resilience of the Ambassadeur line shows in that one damaged part rarely effects other parts to the degree of destroying the reel.
Chances are the caps and shims can be replaced and that Ambassadeur will chug on ahead like nothing's happened!
Josh
Maxximus Redneckus reply :
Josh im a collector of abus i have found them at yard sales for 5$ perfect condition and traded many on here for lures or reels.i currently own 65 of them and one on its way .i have everything from syncro drags to pro max's c5's 4's 3's d's 3000's s series and a few trophys. Right now im looking for that morrum that has eluded me so far.You know the one or 10 sitting in a box at a yard sale for 10$On 10/3/2014 at 11:23 AM, Josh Smith said:Thank you sir. I'm sure if you bought enough bargain-basement abused reels from eBay like I have, you'd find trends too. Dad and I always maintained our reels, and so a lot of these negligence issues were foreign. Heck, after toothpaste, the first thing I recall seeing in a tube was Abu Garcia reel grease!
Still, the resilience of the Ambassadeur line shows in that one damaged part rarely effects other parts to the degree of destroying the reel.
Chances are the caps and shims can be replaced and that Ambassadeur will chug on ahead like nothing's happened!
Josh
Josh Smith reply :
On 10/3/2014 at 11:44 AM, Maxximus Redneckus said:Josh im a collector of abus i have found them at yard sales for 5$ perfect condition and traded many on here for lures or reels.i currently own 65 of them and one on its way .i have everything from syncro drags to pro max's c5's 4's 3's d's 3000's s series and a few trophys. Right now im looking for that morrum that has eluded me so far.You know the one or 10 sitting in a box at a yard sale for 10$
Man, I don't think I could be a collector. I'd want to start swapping parts around to see what fits!
65, though? I have four actively working (5000, 5000c, 5500c3, and a 5600 Mag). I just retired one '70s that was/is Dad's; it's back on the Lew's pole. I have a 5500 non-c that I want to find a place for, but that's it.
A $10 Morrum would be right handy. I used to believe things like that didn't happen until I walked out of a gun shop with a Gewehr 88/05. (This was Germany's first smokeless military rifle.) Built in 1892, the gun shop owner didn't know what it was and let me have it for $37.50 OTD.
I'm a believer. I'm sure you'll find that Morrum, now! Just make sure you talk 'em down to $7.50 
Josh
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