Topwater 'n Jerkbaits prefer Nylon? 2024

Laggyman reply :

I tried using a Sammy 85 today but my 12lb Fluro line sank like a stone and it brought the nose of the Sammy down and the action was horrible.

Nylon is supposed to float a bit more than Fluro right?? WOuld it work the topwater lures better?

And would the same fluro line be the cause of sinking so called "suspending" jerkbaits?? I'm sure other factors affect the sink rate, but would fluro line be a major factor? and since I'm already asking this, what affects the sink rates of so called "Suspending" lures? Water temps? Weather? Seems like anything would change the balanced buoyancy.

I'm thinking of using Nylon for Topwater, Jerkbaits and Crankbaits and FLuro for all the T/C-rigs and Jigs.

BucketmouthAngler13 reply :

I'm not an expert on the subject of sammies, but i do know that Mono line floats like a cork. (at least Trilene does)

If you think that is the problem then maybe you should try something that floats, instead of somthing that sinks slowly.

When using senkos with Trilene, i can let the senko sit and watch my line on the surface like a bobber. Of course, Senkos will get a better action with sinking line.

gatrboy53 reply :

im in total agreement on not useing flouro for topwater,or any bait that you dont want to fish on bottom or get to bottom,i.e. crankbaits.even mono, i use at least 17# test because the thicker line floats better especially on slack line.for suspending baits there is a moment that you will have slack and flouro is going to sink below your suspended bait,which is going to result in missed bites.again, i use mono but i would think braid would work as well.i have heard of taking fly line dressing(wax) and applying it to about 10-15' of flouro for those who use it for topwater.i also believe the lack of stretch in flouro will have to fast of action and cause some missed bites from jerking the bait out of a fishes mouth before they can get a good bite on it.

Banor reply :

I've been using fluoro for tops and jerks this year but I think I'll be switching back to regular mono next year for the reasons listed above.

roadwarrior reply :

This will probably surprise you: I use Yo-Zuri Hybrid Ultra Soft #12. I have NO issues.

Banor reply :

Quote
This will probably surprise you: I use Yo-Zuri Hybrid Ultra Soft #12. I have NO issues.

Give me a moment to wipe the shocked look off my face! ;D

lubina reply :

Give P-Line CX a shot.

RoLo reply :

I personally am not inclined to use different lines for different lures (can't be bothered).

I believe that once you select the line that you deem best overall, you'll soon become accustomed to it's behavior

with different lures, and how it needs to be managed. Gosh, it's the only "craft" that's left in the science of fishing.

For example, the Sammy.

"Walking-the-dog" is one of the most productive topwater retrieves. One of the reasons is due to the fact

that the lure never stops moving, and bass never get a good look. Even with fluorocarbon line (I use braid),

if you hold the rod-tip high around noon, and keep the lure scooting constantly, I rather doubt that the line

will get a chance to sink enough to destroy the zigzag motion.

Roger

senile1 reply :

I agree with Roger (Rolo). In the case mentioned, it might help to go to mono, but with adjustments you should be able to fish topwater on fluoro or braid as well. If you're only carrying three rods or so, it's difficult to impossible to have the "perfect" line on for every application, unless you like to cut line and change lures all day.

Laggyman reply :

Thought I'd just stow away the rods in my car and pull out a different rod with different line for other uses

But hey, if it's possible, I'm going to work to get it done!

Does heavier lbs test mean higher sinking rate??

RoLo reply :

Quote
Does heavier lbs test mean higher sinking rate??

Given the same line-material, the heavier the pound-test the "lower" the sink rate.

Heavier Lb/Test = Wider Diameter = Greater Water Resistance

Roger

Bud reply :

you are right nylon floats. I use sunline Defier which is a copolymer.

Laggyman reply :

Is "the same material" the same for say, 100% Fluro?

I mean, would different manufacturers of Fluro line sink the same as long as it is 100% Fluro and line diameter are the same? Or should I go and try a couple of different lines and see what works best?

I have been thinking about those copolymer lines as well. But I have yet to seem them in tackle shops. I have never seen RW's Yozuri Hybrid either.... :-/

fourbizz reply :

Quote
Give P-Line CX a shot.

CX is flouro coated copolymer, it sinks, and i can say from experience that using 12lb CX with a sammy 85 is a bad idea!

mike bat reply :

ive been using p-line cxx 15lb for my spooks .... no trouble in fact i really like the p-line cxx.... but i should also say i want to give power pro a shot also ... braids float nice

gatrboy53 reply :

yeah, and you can fish and catch bass on a zebco 202(if they still make them)but most bassers dont.one can use any line they want and make it work.but the fact is certain lines have certain properties that are best suited for certain baits and techniques.to maximize the experience use whats deemed most suitable for the situation.the properties of flourocarbon line is not the best choice for topwater baits.if i had one rod and reel for all bass fishing i would use 14# mono for all aplications.but i dont i have 10 rods all rigged differently for all situations,and when i can justify buying some more i'll add some others to fill in the gaps off the technique specifics i dont have....i played golf w/ a 7 iron one time and shot in the 80's,but you play golf w/ 13 clubs to maximize your performance,its the same w/ bass fishin...

mike bat reply :

all i was sayin ,,,, i have no trouble with p-line cxx .... and i dont make it work it just works .... ok now i agree you can use any line you want , and maybee some wouldent use p-line .... but i just want to say p-line cxx works fine for top waters .... i have tryed useing flour and will say flour dosent work fine .... i under stand p line has a flour coating but it doesnt make my line sink ... ;D

Banor reply :

Quote
yeah, and you can fish and catch bass on a zebco 202(if they still make them)but most bassers dont.one can use any line they want and make it work.but the fact is certain lines have certain properties that are best suited for certain baits and techniques.to maximize the experience use whats deemed most suitable for the situation.the properties of flourocarbon line is not the best choice for topwater baits.if i had one rod and reel for all bass fishing i would use 14# mono for all aplications.but i dont i have 10 rods all rigged differently for all situations,and when i can justify buying some more i'll add some others to fill in the gaps off the technique specifics i dont have....i played golf w/ a 7 iron one time and shot in the 80's,but you play golf w/ 13 clubs to maximize your performance,its the same w/ bass fishin...

Agree wholeheartedly.

.ghoti. reply :

I like flouro line for a lot of applications, but not for topwater. The exception would be walkin the dog. If you keep the bait moving at all times, the sink rate of the line is not an issue. If you need the bait to sit still, for much longer than a second or two, you're gonna have some problems with flouro.

After some experimentation, I've went back to XL for topwater use.

Jerkbaits are another story. I like flouro for jerkin. I get a better sense of what the bait is doing, and can modify the action I impart to the bait with more confidence that what is I want is what I'm getting, if that makes sense.

I"ve experimented with quite a few different lines this years, with only a few conclusions.

For plastics and jerkbaits, Transition get the nod. It's much better line this year than it was before.

For topwaters, it's gotta be Trilene XL.

For crankbaits, I'm still on the fence. Been using Vanish, Silver Thread, YoZuri Ultra Soft and XL. Seems to depend on what day it is which one I prefer. I'm leaning towards the Ultra Soft.

Fpr spinnerbaits, I'm leaning towards Vanish.

For buzzbaits and frogs, I don't know. I'm gonna give the braid another chance next year, specifically for these applications.

As you can see, I'm of the "different tools for different applications" school. I used to XL for everything. That will work. Before that, I used braid for everything. That too will work. I've experimented enough to come up with rod/reel combinations I use for different applications, and still feel compelled to try different lines for some of these. I guess that's part of the fun for me. I like to tinker with stuff.

The perfect line just ain't out there, yet.

Good luck,

gatrboy53 reply :

mike bat,i apoligize if you thought i was dissn your post.i thought i was makin a general statement on my personal views of using certain lines for certain situations.didnt mean for it to sound personal.

RoLo reply :

Quote from Laggyman

Quote
I mean, would different manufacturers of Fluro line sink the same as long as it is 100% Fluro and line diameter are the same?

Yes.

There are bound to be some hidden variables, but any difference would be negligible.

Quote
should I go and try a couple of different lines and see what works best?

I personally prefer the copolymers (hybrid lines) over fluorocarbon on the memory issue alone.

By the way, Cabelas carries Yo-Zuri and Yo-Zuri Ultra Soft.

Roger

Laggyman reply :

Can someone give me a brief introduction to Copolymer line??

Pros, Cons?

I have read that using Copolymer line defeats the meaning on using Fluro line in the first place. Don't remember where I read it but I'm sure I read that somewhere...

mike bat reply :

laggy .. just think of it this way most monos have stretch and are fairly easy to cast due to lack of memory .... most flours are stiff and seem to have more memory ,, but there is a but ... most flours are almost invisiable underwater also have very little stretch ....most flours will sink rather fast making flour a great line for any deep water fishing presentations .... the flour lines have also been said to be great in clear water ... and have almost no stretch but a little /// now there is a draw back with flour .... theres that little shock factor when setting the hook ... if the line is put under too much shock when setting the hook it can snap ... so now we can look at co-poly a hybreed of mono and flour ... or a mono coated with flour ( p-line cxx) i prefer co-poly over all ... now that doesnt mean any one else should ,,, its a personal thing /// if i fish cranks i like mono or on my spinning gear i like mono but most other things i like co-poly .. and i do use flour when swimbaiting .... flour has its time to shine just like mono ,co-poly , and braid .... bottum line start buyin lines and playin with them ... its the olny way you can have a true under standing of what you need from your lines heres some hints

for mono i like ,,,, tryline xl smooth,, xt and cajun RED CAST ... for co polys i like p-line cxx and cx moss green ... and for flours i like tripple fish ,,saugers (now i olny use flours at a 20lb rating plus) ohh braid theres olny one power pro. hope this helps and this is olny my opion ;D ohh i forgot monos will float as well as braids ( well the ones i use )...

guest reply :

I do not use fluro line at all anymore.

Quote
I personally am not inclined to use different lines for different lures (can't be bothered).

Rolo hit the nail on the head. I use Power pro 50# on all my reels. I will sometimes add a length of trilene big game for concidence purposes or becuase the power pro it too limp for the current application. For example Power pro will wrap around the front end of a prop bait pretty quickly. a few feet of 15# big game reduces that problem significantly.

i don't like flouro lines because using power pro, i want a leader that has shock absorption. Ask fish Chris how he breaks off 65 lb braid. He does with with a screwed down drag and a sharp snapping pull on the line.

I still haven't tried RW's legendary hybrid soft, but NO offense Mr. Warrior, I think I have found my happy place when it comes to line.

Power pro 50# for all applications. Add a few feet of 15 lb big game, for slow surface applications like poppers. It's a condidence thing.

roadwarrior reply :

A "Happy Place" is a good place to be.

I continue to test new lines and may spool one rod up with braid for Texas. For spinning tackle I am very pleased with the Ulttra Soft, but I am still open to another brand or type of line for baitcasting.

Laggyman reply :

I'll try finding a copolymer line and try it next time I have to spool up some line. And while I have my currrent line I'll practice the baits and see if I can adapt to the differences.

About leaders....

Wouldn't using "leaders" defeat any purpose of using that particular line in the first place? Ex. Using a mono leader on Fluro line?? I have read many people using leaders and such for braid, but it sounds to me like that is defeating the purpose of using braid/fluro, "good sensetivity" "non-stretch" aspects which mono doesn't have.

I'm getting confused about leaders...

mike bat reply :

laggy leaders are cool .... they allow you to fish a braid in any situation .... one time i wanted to toss a crank but i olny had a rod with braid ,,,i prefer a mono line due to the stretch .... i tied up a mono leader no problem .... also theres a flour leader if you are fishin crystal clear waters ..... there are 100s of reasons why you may want a leader or need one ,,, this is just another way to tweek yor tackle ;D

RoLo reply :

Quote
Can someone give me a brief introduction to Copolymer line??
Pros, Cons?

As the name suggests, copolymer line combines 'cooperative polymers' to create a hybrid line. Almost without exception,

copolymer line (hybrid line) is some combination of nylon and fluorocarbon. The goal of course is to reap as many

benefits from each material without inheriting their disadvantages. In spite of manufacturer claims, this is not possible.

Not unexpectedly, "copolymer" falls somewhere between nylon and fluorocarbon in every line property in the chart below:

NYLON COPOLYMER FLUORO BRAID

Memory-Lack 85 80 70 100

Stretch-Resistance 65 75 80 95

Abrasion-Resistance 75 85 90 80

Life Span 70 85 95 95

Invisibility 85 90 95 65

RAW SCORE: 380 415 430 435

I apologize for the chart misalignment, we need RTF

To be realistic, the "raw score" needs to be replaced with a "Weighted Score".

That is, each line-property needs to be weighted between 0 and 100 according to

each angler's personal order of declining importance. My order of importance

coincides with the order listed above. In that order, the weighted score of "braid"

(which is not shown) blows the wheels off all other line materials.

Roger

Laggyman reply :

Thanks for that chart! Didn't know the lifespan of a fluro line is generally longer than a Nylon...

Is the Yo-zuri Hybrid a Copolymer?? Errr... are "Hybrid" lines just "Copolymer"??

cart7t reply :

For topwaters I suggest mono. I would not want line sinking into the water. Ulimately it will make it more difficult to impart action into the lure if I'm having to first get the line up out of the water along with trying to manipulate the lure. I'd stay away from braid for the same reasons.

As for suspending jerkbaits, the same thing. The last thing I want is a line pulling my jerkbait down with it. I'd rather have a floating line like mono and manually adjust the weight of the jerkbait to counteract the line.

ScroGG ToGG reply :

Quote

I personally am not inclined to use different lines for different lures (can't be bothered).

I believe that once you select the line that you deem best overall, you'll soon become accustomed to it's behavior

with different lures, and how it needs to be managed. Gosh, it's the only "craft" that's left in the science of fishing.

For example, the Sammy.

"Walking-the-dog" is one of the most productive topwater retrieves. One of the reasons is due to the fact

that the lure never stops moving, and bass never get a good look. Even with fluorocarbon line (I use braid),

if you hold the rod-tip high around noon, and keep the lure scooting constantly, I rather doubt that the line

will get a chance to sink enough to destroy the zigzag motion.

Roger

IMO thats the same theory as using the same lb test for every situation. Personally, i couldnt see myself using mono around abunch of rip rap.

RoLo reply :

Quote

Quote

I personally am not inclined to use different lines for different lures (can't be bothered).

I believe that once you select the line that you deem best overall, you'll soon become accustomed to it's behavior

with different lures, and how it needs to be managed. Gosh, it's the only "craft" that's left in the science of fishing.

For example, the Sammy. "Walking-the-dog" is one of the most productive topwater retrieves. One of the reasons

is due to the fact that the lure never stops moving, and bass never get a good look. Even with fluorocarbon line (I use braid),

if you hold the rod-tip high around noon, and keep the lure scooting constantly, I rather doubt that the line

will get a chance to sink enough to destroy the zigzag motion.

Roger

IMO thats the same theory as using the same lb test for every situation. Personally, i couldnt see myself using mono around abunch of rip rap.

I don't think that "Line-test" is the best analogy.

I own several dozen fishing outfits and the main reason I've sunk thousands of dollars into rods, reels and line

is to satisfy different fish species and different line-tests. I stated the following, "I believe that once you select the line

that you deem best overall, you'll soon become accustomed to it's behavior with different lures, and how it needs to be managed."

For more than 50 years I've fished rip-rap with nylon monofilament, and now that I've switched from nylon to spectra braid,

I now fish all rip-rap with braid. I didn't feel disadvantaged before, and I don't feel disadvantaged now (maybe happier now).

When something goes wrong, I rarely blame my equipment, but typically blame myself and make any necessary adjustment.

A. I don't fish for a living, I fish for recreation.

B. I'm not easily hornswaggled by tournament marketing hype that would have you and I

buy a different line for each different lure presentation and for every type of cover.

But as always, to each his own

Roger

RoLo reply :

Quote
Thanks for that chart! Didn't know the lifespan of a fluro line is generally longer than a Nylon...
Is the Yo-zuri Hybrid a Copolymer?? Errr... are "Hybrid" lines just "Copolymer"??

Yes, Yo-Zuri is a hybrid line and a copolymer, which are one and the same.

The only disputable attribute of Yo-Zuri is whether it should be classified as a monofilament line.

Under a microscope, Yo-Zuri line consists of longitudinally aligned nylon fibers that make up the core,

encased in a fluorocarbon coat. Very interesting technology.

Roger

lubina reply :

I use P-Line CX, which is a copolymer, it has some memory that I like with treble hooks but not as much as Fruoroclear, smaller diameter and the abrasion resistance of the fluorocarbon sheath and it floats.

For some reason I don't like the feeling of the 100 % flouro that I have tried, confidence factor. It should'nt be too bad when KVD won the 05 Classic using it with a floating Rogue.

Laggyman reply :

Copolymer sounds like good line for them Cranks and Jerks and Topwaters

I'll have to go find it..... P-LineCX or Yozuri Hybrid... Doesn't matter which. I just want to try out a different type of line. Sounds like a happy medium between sinking fluoro and stretchy nylon.

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