Braid to leader - be honest 2025
fishindad reply :
So I have been using braid (Power Pro, 832, and YGK) on my spinning reels with Sunline Sniper leader in various lb tests mainly 7 and 8lb. I also use the Crazy Alberto knot (wrap up 7-8 times and down 7-8 times) to connect the two lines. I always make sure to exit the leader loop same way the line enters. I've also used uni-to-uni knot but find the Crazy Alberto better. And always make sure to wet the lines before cinching. And typically tie a leader length of 10 ft.
My question is this: In all honesty, how many casts do you get before you need to retie? Let's assume an average of 50 casts per hour or a little less than one per minute. So I'm talking about fishing moving baits primarily. Does anyone ever fish their entire day (~6 hours) without breaking off and re-tying at least once? If you fish an entire day (or more) without retying, what knot are you using? What is it you're doing that I'm not? My thought is that I need to go up in lb test because I don't seem to have this happen (as much) as with the lighter line, like 6-8 lb test. I've checked my guides and they are all fine. I do fish Michigan so zebra mussels exist but I always seem to break at the line to leader connection. I'm seriously thinking to go back to using straight fluoro for finesse stuff.
roadwarrior reply :
My connecting knot rarely breaks, so I only retie before every trip.
johnD. reply :
I'll fish all day with the same uni to uni knot. But , I never throw my knot through my guides.
NHBull reply :
All day and sometimes the following day.
I do re-tie terminal tackle every couple fish
S. Sass reply :
If you have trust issues with your setup why torture yourself eliminate the problem and go straight fluoro if that is what you think you need to do. If I do use a leader I use the blood knot and haven't had any issues with the knot connection. I also only retie my knots before each outing. I fished for 7 or 8 hours many times and never retie unless its a lure change. But then again I rarely finesse fish and I don't use line under 10lb test. 
Tim Kelly reply :
Seriously, learn the FG knot and you won't have to worry about your connection again, it really is that good. I only re-tie when the leader has got too short, there's absolutely no need to worry about the leader knot. Every other knot I've ever used to join leader to braid has been a weak point, especially when you are winding it through the guides. The FG removes that worry and weakness completely. It's a pain to learn, but once you've got it down it doesn't take too long to tie.
fishindad reply :
Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches.
On 4/10/2017 at 11:57 PM, Tim Kelly said:Seriously, learn the FG knot and you won't have to worry about your connection again, it really is that good. I only re-tie when the leader has got too short, there's absolutely no need to worry about the leader knot. Every other knot I've ever used to join leader to braid has been a weak point, especially when you are winding it through the guides. The FG removes that worry and weakness completely. It's a pain to learn, but once you've got it down it doesn't take too long to tie.
Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.
1201vilbig reply :
I also like the Blood Knot. Tie it correctly, wet it & fish all day or until the leader gets too short.
Tim Kelly reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 12:23 AM, fishindad said:Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches.
Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.
My eyes just turned 50 and I can do it fine. I'm sure you'll manage. Look on you tube for the versions where the braid comes from the rod tip and you hold the end of the braid in your mouth, then wrap the leader round the braid. I find this by far the easiest method. The half hitches are the bit that takes the time, the weave is a doddle.
runt4561 reply :
I don't fish braid for finesse fishing very much for that reason however, if I do, I use the FG knot. I have used it for saltwater fishing and it doesn't seem to snag the guides when you cast near as much as my old uni knot.
Oklahoma Mike reply :
I use the Alberto knot and only retie if I want to change my leader size or if it looks visibly worn.
Team9nine reply :
Are you breaking on fish, when hung up, or just randomly for no apparent reason. I typically use a 4'-6' leader (w/Alberto knot mostly), and only ever retie the leader knot when my leader gets into the 12"-18" range, which might be several trips later if I'm lucky 
and I use a lot of lighter 6-8# leader line.
Darren. reply :
I can go, sometimes, like @Team9nine, several trips
if lucky w/o retying my leader. I also use lighter test
lines, mostly uni-to-uni now though i will tie Alberto
at times.
Said it in another thread, there's the whole system in
place that has to work together. You drag cannot be
set too tight, and you should be using the proper rod
strength for the technique.
As well, the slicker the line, the more wraps I will tie.
In all honesty, I can't remember the last time I broke
at the uni-to-uni or Alberto leader knot. Using 10, 15,
and 20# braid with anywhere from 4-15# test of
various material.
Finally, I do not fish moving baits as much, but I do
fish a spinnerbait often lately, and have had no issues.
johnD. reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 12:23 AM, fishindad said:Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches.
Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.
I think if you try , you will find that you can cast just fine with 18"-24" of line hanging off the tip.
Choporoz reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 1:59 AM, johnD. said:
I think if you try , you will find that you can cast just fine with 18"-24" of line hanging off the tip.
Accurate casting (for me, anyway) means that lure weight, rod characteristics, spool tension, distance, wind, obstacles....and length of line between lure and rod tip ....all must be taken into account. Most of those variables are constants --- the easiest to adjust is the distance of lure to tip while casting -- I refuse to compromise on that to compensate for knot fear. Pretty rare that I'll willingly cast anything other than a c-rig with 24" hanging out there.
Cgrinder reply :
I don't think a knot going through the guides matters. I retie before every outing and when the leader is too short. Alberto all day, every day.
However, I think you can run into problems with the Alberto knot if your leader is significantly smaller in diameter compared to the braid main line.
Knock on wood, I've never blown a leader knot that I've tied. Kung Fu Girlfriend, Destroyer of Tackle, is another story, but I think that's the Indian rather then the arrow.
johnD. reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 2:16 AM, Choporoz said:Accurate casting (for me, anyway) means that lure weight, rod characteristics, spool tension, distance, wind, obstacles....and length of line between lure and rod tip ....all must be taken into account. Most of those variables are constants --- the easiest to adjust is the distance of lure to tip while casting -- I refuse to compromise on that to compensate for knot fear. Pretty rare that I'll willingly cast anything other than a c-rig with 24" hanging out there.
My reply was aimed at the op and his spinning set up. I'm not talking about somebody with a baitcaster and a 6' rod whipping a spinnerbait down the bank..
bigturtle reply :
I use alberto knot for 30lb braid to 14lb mono. 5 wraps up, 5 down. I usually tie a 15-20ft leader, and I retie my leader line every few trips. havnt had it break in quite a few years.
fishindad reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 1:40 AM, Team9nine said:Are you breaking on fish, when hung up, or just randomly for no apparent reason. I typically use a 4'-6' leader (w/Alberto knot mostly), and only ever retie the leader knot when my leader gets into the 12"-18" range, which might be several trips later if I'm lucky
and I use a lot of lighter 6-8# leader line.
Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.
Team9nine reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 6:00 AM, fishindad said:Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.
Just speculation, but it might be a combination of leader length and smallies in your case (not sure if micros would play any differently in this scenario). I use a 4-6' leader which usually only ends up inside the guides on the cast. With a 10' leader, your knot will be inside the guides on the cast, but more importantly, also when a fish gets close to the boat and has the rod/line under a lot of pressure while fighting the fish. Add a smallie's fighting and surging a lot at the boat toward the end, and I bet your knot is going in and out of the guides under pressure a lot more than most. Might not make a huge difference with thicker lines as some mentioned, but thinner lines as you stated might be a bit more susceptible to wear in these circumstances, especially if being used all day long.
-T9
fishindad reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 8:16 AM, Team9nine said:
Just speculation, but it might be a combination of leader length and smallies in your case (not sure if micros would play any differently in this scenario). I use a 4-6' leader which usually only ends up inside the guides on the cast. With a 10' leader, your knot will be inside the guides on the cast, but more importantly, also when a fish gets close to the boat and has the rod/line under a lot of pressure while fighting the fish. Add a smallie's fighting and surging a lot at the boat toward the end, and I bet your knot is going in and out of the guides under pressure a lot more than most. Might not make a huge difference with thicker lines as some mentioned, but thinner lines as you stated might be a bit more susceptible to wear in these circumstances, especially if being used all day long.
-T9
This is an excellent point, thanks! I would agree that my line to leader knot could be adjusted (shorter leader) as there really is no way I change baits that often such that my leader gets shortened more than a foot at most during an outing. I'll try going with a 5 foot leader and see if this helps. I do think there's something I'm missing here and agree with others that the modified Albright/Crazy Alberto should be a great knot. It's definitely not getting hung up in the guides so probably not that. Our season just started so I have lots of time to experiment.
Big Bait Fishing reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 6:00 AM, fishindad said:Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.
all of my rods have micro guides ( spinning, casting, & swimbait rods ) , i tie a 12 -15 ft. leader of 6 lb. Sniper to 6 lb. braid ( neon lime 832 at the moment ) tied with a double or triple Surgeon's knot , i tie it on before i head out and fish it all day with no problems . same goes with my other baitcasting rod setups , 20 lb. braid to 8 lb Sniper or 10 lb. Shooter, 30 lb. braid to 14 lb Sniper ( swimbait rod is straight co-poly )
Team9nine reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 9:31 AM, fishindad said:I do think there's something I'm missing here and agree with others that the modified Albright/Crazy Alberto should be a great knot. It's definitely not getting hung up in the guides so probably not that. Our season just started so I have lots of time to experiment.
I doubt it's the knot specifically unless you are simply tying it wrong. Alberto is one of the strongest tested knots, and the same knot I use probably 90% of the time. I've landed everything from 30" hybrid stripers and catfish to 40 pound buffalo using it with 6# and 8# fluoro leaders and never had issues. About the only difference from the sounds of it is I use 7 or 8 wraps up and back with "micro" lines (usually one less wrap back down).
-T9
TX-Deluxe reply :
On 4/10/2017 at 11:45 PM, johnD. said:I'll fish all day with the same uni to uni knot. But , I never throw my knot through my guides.
So your leader is 8-12 inches? I'm confused
Angry John reply :
I also use the Alberto with 6up and 5 down. I run a rod length leader where the knot is just below my tip top when I tie on the hook and it's on the hanger. It is as long as I can get without creating a kink while storing or traveling. It gets shorter as I fish and I get one or two outings out of a leader. I check my leader often and trim as needed to keep it abrasion free.
BassThumb reply :
The best advice I can leave here is to use fluorocarbon designed as leader material.
It's a little stiffer than standard fluoro, but it's tough as nails and ties much, much better knots that rarely need to be retied. I typically get 4-6 trips before I feel the need.
Since I started using this type of line, I have not once broken the braid-to-fluoro knot, and that used to happen regularly when I used standard fluorocarbon line. I use 10# Sufix 832 on all my spinning setups with a Double-Uni knot connecting braid to leader, and I've landed anything from 15 lb. pike wrapped in milfoil to a 7 lb. smallmouth in three-foot rolling waves.
I prefer the Trilene leader material in 6# for bass and walleye, and 4# for panfish. It's $10 for 25 yards, but a 6-10' section will last you a dozen trips at least.
Fisher-O-men reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 12:23 AM, fishindad said:I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat.
Yep, tough to tie with the braid in your mouth like many videos show. I rigged up a paper clip to hook the braid to my shirt button. That puts the knot far enough away that I can see what i am doing. I only tie the FG at home. Alberto on the boat. I hardly ever have to tie on the boat, though.
Jason Penn reply :
i've tried to get on board witht the braid/leader deal, but i'm just not comfortable with it. i may not be fishing fast enough to keep slack out of my line.
i saw a youtube video with shaw grigsby where he was saying he's using probably a 25'-30' leader on his spinning rigs. is anybody else doing this, and are you having any problems with it?
Crestliner2008 reply :
I'm an Alberto knot fan here too. Been using it for a lot of years now, from 2# test up to 14# test, with comparable braids. Extremely rare that the break occurs at this joint. The Alberto is actually a weave and not a knot, so it has the highest fail safe, while maintaining a low profile for line moving through guides. I'd only offer one other consideration. When you cinch it up, do so slowly; pausing frequently during this set. It reduces heat build up in the line, from the cinching process.
I only retie a leader once or twice each season. On rigs less frequently used, I'll go a full season with no worries at all. I don't think you need as long a leader as you are using though. 4' - 6' is plenty to give you the shock absorption that you need.
Darren. reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 6:46 PM, Jason Penn said:i've tried to get on board witht the braid/leader deal, but i'm just not comfortable with it. i may not be fishing fast enough to keep slack out of my line.
i saw a youtube video with shaw grigsby where he was saying he's using probably a 25'-30' leader on his spinning rigs. is anybody else doing this, and are you having any problems with it?
Gary Yamamoto does this, too. His reasoning is that
he wants the leader knot on the reel when he's in
closer combat trying to get the fish on the boat.
I've not found the need for such a long leader. Guess
it's whatever they feel most confident with.
craww reply :
Used the alberto for years and don't think I've ever lost a fish due to a failure...My PB managed to find a horizontal log I wasnt aware of directly under the boat the first day I tried it...One of the most tense moments of my life listening to the piano string tension of the line sawing but she held.
I have had some snags that resulted in breaking off that felt like it broke a little too easily, but nothing alarmingly so.
fishindad reply :
OK, you guys are killing me. The most recent break was on Sunday, where I was using 14lb YGK with a 6lb Sniper leader, which I tied the night before using 8 wraps up and 8 wraps down making sure the tag end went through the same way as it went in. It just snapped at the knot about 2 hours into fishing an 1/8th oz. slider. I've tied the Alberto knot dozens of times and always wet the knot and pull slowly watching close to make sure the wraps coil nicely around the leader loop. I do think shortening the leader will help - I worship Gary Y. but am not yet on board with the 25 foot leader deal even though that logic makes some sense. I think the more the knot goes through the guides, especially with hard pulling fish, the more wear that occurs. I'll recheck all my rod guides and try the FG knot next. And I've been meaning to switch to using leader material anyway.
My takeaway is it doesn't matter what brand the main line (braid) is, a 4-6 foot leader seems best (for me) since I tend not to change lures more than once or twice an outing, actual fluoro leader is better, and don't give up on the alberto knot just yet!
mreservices reply :
I used to use the Alberto knot and am now using the FG knot. With both, I have never had a break and I do pass the know through my guides. I typically don't have to re-tie unless I need a longer leader. I use Suffix Nanobraid to Sunline Super FC Sniper. This is for spinning gear. Hope that helps some.
KDW96 reply :
On 4/11/2017 at 11:54 AM, BassThumb said:The best advice I can leave here is to use fluorocarbon designed as leader material.
It's a little stiffer than standard fluoro, but it's tough as nails and ties much, much better knots that rarely need to be retied. I typically get 4-6 trips before I feel the need.
Since I started using this type of line, I have not once broken the braid-to-fluoro knot, and that used to happen regularly when I used standard fluorocarbon line. I use 10# Sufix 832 on all my spinning setups with a Double-Uni knot connecting braid to leader, and I've landed anything from 15 lb. pike wrapped in milfoil to a 7 lb. smallmouth in three-foot rolling waves.
I prefer the Trilene leader material in 6# for bass and walleye, and 4# for panfish. It's $10 for 25 yards, but a 6-10' section will last you a dozen trips at least.
I also have found, that actual leader material far outlast regular fluoro. Yes,theres alot less on a spool, but it is made different and lasts longer. I use to believe there was no difference. Until my friend and guide for 35yrs in florida,schooled me on the difference,with on the water proof. The only brand i use is Seagur BLUE LABEL 
WRB reply :
You need to ask yourself why use a leader longer then the rod? Next you need to ask why use a leader? I don't use braid with a leader because of the need to join the leader with a knot and the lure with a second knot.
Making 45-50 cast per hour is a problem in it's self unles you are blindly casting the shoreline without thinking where the next cast should be or where the bass are located.
Primium mono is a good choice for crank baits or faster moving lures unless it's across the top or into of heavy cover, then braid is a good choice. FC should be reserved for where it maybe needed, slower moving bottom contact lures in sparse cover or more open water structure presentations.
Tom
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