Avid X thoughts? 2024
dgkasper58 reply :
Looking into buying the 7' ML Avid X wanted to hear thoughts on the rod. Have to burn some gift cards and may also trade in an old premier to upgrade. Was going to use the rod for weightless flukes and ned rig type applications.
Also is upgrading the way to go with st croix?
NHBull reply :
A couple years ago I was thinking the same and went St Croix and would do the same again. Not dissing the Avid, just prefer the SC
edit....senior moment...meant x over the avid
dgkasper58 reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 9:24 AM, NHBull said:A couple years ago I was thinking the same and went St Croix and would do the same again. Not dissing the Avid, just prefer the SC
st croix avid x is the rod...
when I brought up upgrading I meant using their upgrade policy.
dodgeguy reply :
Why would anybody spend that much money and not get sic guides?
dgkasper58 reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 9:35 AM, dodgeguy said:Why would anybody spend that much money and not get sic guides?
I know- downfall for the rod and I am not sold on the micro's but it is not much more for the upgrade- basically its 120 with a trade in and I am not sure if its worth that.
jimmyjoe reply :
I have the 7' 2-pc ML with a Shimano Stradic CI4+ 2500 on it. I've used quite a few different lines. This is my favorite rod, hands down. Not that it will horse with the big boys. That's not what I mean. I mean it's the all-around best, most fun, fighting-est rod, least trouble rod, most accurate rod that I have. I use it for everything from crappie, to white bass, to flukes for LMB.
Yes, there are probably better rods out there, but I need 2-pc rods, and that limits my choices considerably. And I didn't know how I would like the Kigan Z-guides when I first got the rod, but now I love them. One thing: they seem to work better with mono rather than braid. Don't know why. ???? jj
dgkasper58 reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 9:50 AM, jimmyjoe said:I have the 7' 2-pc ML with a Shimano Stradic CI4+ 2500 on it. I've used quite a few different lines. This is my favorite rod, hands down. Not that it will horse with the big boys. That's not what I mean. I mean it's the all-around best, most fun, fighting-est rod, least trouble rod, most accurate rod that I have. I use it for everything from crappie, to white bass, to flukes for LMB.
Yes, there are probably better rods out there, but I need 2-pc rods, and that limits my choices considerably. And I didn't know how I would like the Kigan Z-guides when I first got the rod, but now I love them. One thing: they seem to work better with mono rather than braid. Don't know why. ???? jj
braid usually takes off your spool wider and with the smaller guides has more resistance and potential for tangle since its shooting off the spool so quickly.
I think they went with these guides for it to be lighter- not sure how much lighter it is compared to sic?
jimmyjoe reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 9:52 AM, dgkasper58 said:I think they went with these guides for it to be lighter- not sure how much lighter it is compared to sic?
Given same blank, same size and spacing, I don't believe there's a perceptible difference. Why the interest in SIC? jj
dgkasper58 reply :
I know they are "better" but that's what someone else posted- why pay so much for something that doesn't have the sic guides.
jimmyjoe reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 10:01 AM, dgkasper58 said:I know they are "better" but that's what someone else posted- why pay so much for something that doesn't have the sic guides.
I see ... that was @dodgeguy. Got it straight now. ???? jj
Matt_3479 reply :
I had a 7’ medium avid x. I have recently sold it but here’s what I can tell you about it. It was a little tip heavy but not bad with a nasci and stradic fk. Sensitivity was good, not the best but I’d say on point for value. Power was impressive, definitely had some serious back bone to it yet a decently soft tip. I liked it but it didn’t win me over and it has since moved on to a buddy who loves it. Micro guides were okay, still able to get an fg knot through them
LCG reply :
I had the 6'6" mh-f casting rod. Fantastic rod with great sensitivity, excellent workmanship, strong backbone. The only reason I sold it was the micro guides. I am a braid to leader guy and it just didn't work for me. St Croix is a solid choice and if your ok with micro guides, I am sure you will be very happy.
I replaced it with a BPS Carbonlite 2.0 with semi micro guides which work much better for me. YMMV.
FishTank reply :
I have a few Avids and when I went to look for a new one, I debated between the X and the regular Avid. And after looking at them side by side, I just thought the regular Avid fit my needs.
On a side note, I thought the regular Avid felt like a better rod in hand. I couldn't tell you why that it is but it was just a gut choice. I have not been disappointed so far. They are great rods.
r83srock reply :
The Avid is St. Croix’s IMX. It’s the benchmark in their lineup. The Alconite guides and guide spacing, the Ecs seat, and sc3 blank are proven. The finish has changed over the years, croix used to not gloss the blank, which I preferred. I have owned many, one is 17 years old, and I bought used when it was 10, never broke one. The X is just the split grip, snazzed up version. I have used the X with braid and it fished well. Not sure on the 7’, but I have a 6’9” ml casting that I use for drop shotting and it’s probably the most versatile finesse rod I’ve used.
dodgeguy reply :
According to what I've read they are plain aluminum oxide guides. Not even alconite. To me that's sub standard on a rod of that price. It's the exact reason I didn't buy one.
Spankey reply :
I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. If it feels right go for it. The only X series I own is ML-Xfast. I also have a Nasci on it.
I fish Premiere and Avid Series Rods with full grips. Love them. Great factory warranty in case you need it. Only had to use it a couple of times and had no issues with them and I don’t believe I had to put out anything from my end.
I got turned on to St. Croix Rods back in the late 80’s by some Susquehanna River Rats boys and have never looked back. I don’t own anything above the Avid Series. Good luck.
Mikeltee reply :
Good rod but you are paying double for the name. There are a lot better rods at that price point where the extra money goes in components and not branding and marketing. If you need a rod and your local store has it get it. I sometimes have to because my wife complains when the UPS guy comes by. Luckily I have a Cabela's 5 minutes away. I had an Avid and shut it in a car door. I turned it into a fly swatter. I did get to throw with it and it did fine. I caught hundreds of trophy pike with it in the artic for a week the biggest being 49" and some big ars lake trout. Makes a great fly swatter too!
CountryboyinDC reply :
The Avids have Alconite ring coatings, I think the Avid X has another aluminum oxide (read cheesy) insert. As for SiC rings, I still wonder why people are so hung up on these. I understand Torzite - it's harder and lighter than Alconite, but SiC is just harder and it cost more. Avids and Avid Xs are right at the $200 mark for your standard 7' rod - which rod offers SiC rings for that price (someone will probably mention one of the BPS lines, and that would be true). In Loomis, I think you have to go to the GLX line, and they start at double the price. For me, micro guides are not the ticket for most of my rods, so the Avid X is not a consideration, but I still think the Avid is pretty solid in its price range.
punch reply :
If you think Avid X's spinning rods are tip heavy, try a Legend Tournament Bass spinning rod. Oooofda.
Allen Der reply :
Have you looked at the Eyecon 7ft ML rod? I love the reel seat and foregrip on the Eyecon. It's a good ned rig and grub rod. Only downside is that it's not made in the USA
MickD reply :
Avids are not the IMX of St Croix. The SCV would be more accurately called the IMX of St Croix. They are good rods for the money, well up on the cost/value curve. Meaning that as you spend more you are not getting that much more value.
Alconite is not a coating on rings; it is the material the ring is made from. It is a premium ring just under the hardness of SIC, comparable to zirconium.
Has anyone ever grooved an alconite guide? SIC is somewhat harder, but is harder needed? SIC is also more brittle, so more apt to break if knocked against the boat while jerking. Since SIC is more brittle, most SIC is thicker than alconite and other similar ring materials. Fuji has a slim SIC that is thinner than usual SIC.
I have grooved some old cheapie tiptops, but never a guide, even an old cheapie guide.
Avids are no more tip heavy than other rods of the same length, using the same reel, and the same approx cost
There have been a bazillion fish caught on rods that are heavier, less sensitive, and that have lower performance guides than the Avid. Some of the favorite lines of rods today have much lower quality cork and workmanship.
dodgeguy reply :
I have never broken or grooved a Fuji alconite or sic guide.
CountryboyinDC reply :
On 6/26/2019 at 10:35 AM, MickD said:Alconite is not a coating on rings; it is the material the ring is made from. It is a premium ring just under the hardness of SIC, comparable to zirconium.
That's right - I misspoke that in my post. The rings are surrounded by guide frames, but the rings themselves are not coatings.
Randy Price reply :
I have an Avid X and several original Avids. For the $$ IMO Avids are where SC rods start to shine!
Bluebasser86 reply :
I had an Avid X. It wasn't bad but I hated the guides so bad that I sold it. I agree with dodgeguy that the guides are very subpar for a rod that price.
Scott F reply :
As you can see from this thread and every other rod discussion, choosing a rod is a very personal choice. One guys favorite, another guy hates. I could never choose one based on other people’s choices. I own Avids and Avid X’s I like them both.
MickD reply :
On 6/24/2019 at 9:52 AM, dgkasper58 said:braid usually takes off your spool wider and with the smaller guides has more resistance and potential for tangle since its shooting off the spool so quickly.
Oversimplified, and essentially untrue.
dgkasper58 reply :
On 7/27/2019 at 9:48 PM, MickD said:Oversimplified, and essentially untrue.
I'm interested in learning if you wouldn't mind sharing... since I am pretty sure this is true- even though I know there are a lot of other variables- in regards to the micro guides on this rod is all that really would effect the issue.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
All lines come off the spool more or less at the spool diameter. Poor guide trains are what cause ballooning, friction and distance loss. The suppleness of braid actually makes it the easiest to manage.
dgkasper58 reply :
On 7/29/2019 at 11:56 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:All lines come off the spool more or less at the spool diameter. Poor guide trains are what cause ballooning, friction and distance loss. The suppleness of braid actually makes it the easiest to manage.
The video was with flouro my mistake!
MickD reply :
Braid is very limp which makes it easiest of the lines (mono, FC, braid) to get smoothly through guides, in general.
But proper guide design/layout is important with it, as with the other lines. Latest thinking on design for spin rods (and to a lesser degree, cast) is to use higher guides than we used to, and smaller guides to try to get the line under control fast, in only 2 or three guides, then use all the same size running guides to the end. Many have theories on why micros work so well (with all lines after the reduction is accomplished), but my theory is that they control the line looping so that the line is essentially a very long and small cylinder going through the air instead of a looping line trying to cut the air resistance. In any event, most agree that micros cast farther than bigger guides. Even if this is not true, they cast just fine and because they are small they add little weight to the blank. Weight is an enemy of sensitivity and fast response/recovery. But keep in mind that proper design and layout will get the line under control before it gets to the micros.
As usual with new technology, rod builders went crazy over micros and applied them where they probably were not the best guide. Many builders have since settled on size 4 spin guides (4mm O.D. of the ceramic ring) and size 5 cast guides since these sizes are very light AND they pass leader knots better. Some used micros on fairly powerful rods and the tiny guide feet sometimes failed in the midsection of the rod. Fuji has micros with bigger feet to handle this issue.
http://anglersresource.net/ Go to this site and watch the 7th video down on the Fuji KR Concept guide system and you'll get a more professional treatment of what I tried to describe.
Regarding the video, I'm sure the one who made it thought it was correct, maybe it was done a long time ago, but you will probably not find a builder today who would agree with it. Regarding the weight of braid, most braids are lighter (density) than mono or FC as manufactured. I expect it is heavier when wet, but I have no data. FC is the heaviest with a density of about 1.5 times that of water. Mono is about the same as water. Some braids have heavier fibers woven in to make them sink, and because of the heavier density and their very small diameters for a given pound test, they are very good for getting deep when you want to.
On 7/29/2019 at 11:24 PM, dgkasper58 said:in regards to the micro guides on this rod is all that really would effect the issue.
But it's the reduction train that has to be considered too. See details above.
JLewis134 reply :
On 7/27/2019 at 9:36 PM, Scott F said:As you can see from this thread and every other rod discussion, choosing a rod is a very personal choice. One guys favorite, another guy hates. I could never choose one based on other people’s choices. I own Avids and Avid X’s I like them both.
Agreed! I love all my SC rods though but it comes down to preference.
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