Fluoro No Stretch?...myth? 2024
bassin is addicting reply :
i purchased fluoro for the 1st time a few weeks ago. i got BPS XP since it was on sale.
i put 12lb on as leader to 20lb braid.
after i tied it on (alberto knot) and then tied on my jig (Siebert's) i gave the line a pull to check my knots and was surprised of the stretch/spongy feeling. i have read that fluoro has no or very little stretch....but it seemed to have quite a bit. actually close to the mono i've used.
is it the BPS fluoro? or is there just more stretch than i've read about and it is normal?
also, i've read to "not stretch" fluoro because it loses its strength......is this true?
thanks....
webertime reply :
It's a myth.
Tywithay reply :
Not all fluorocarbons are created equal. The more manageable and limp the line, the more likely it will be stretchy. Invizx for example, very stretchy, easy to cast. Other lines like Shooter offer great abrasion resistance, little to no stretch, but it's difficult to handle because it is so stiff. It's not necessarily a myth, but it's not really true that fluoro has "no" stretch.
Stretching fluoro can indeed damage the line if you go too far. It will not bounce back to its original shape like mono lines will. Even with mono though, once you get past a certain point, it will weaken the line.
TorqueConverter reply :
Weird. I fish XPS fluorocarbon and there is little to no elasticity in the line. The line should not stretch and return like a spring. This type of stretch is elastic and is typically not a characteristic of 100% fluorocarbon lines. Are you sure you don't have the XPS KVD fluorocarbon line? That line is supposed to be softer and smoother handling than regular XPS fluorocarbon. Usually when a fluorocarbon line is billed as "softer and better handling" this means that is has a mono like behavior including some elasticity.
If the line is stretching and not returning then the stretch is plastic and not elastic. This type of stretch is due to the high plasticity of 100% fluorocarbon line and should only be observed when pushing the line to it's breaking point.
Scott F reply :
The average Fluoro line stretches around 10%. The best FC lines still stretch about 6.5%. Here is a link to a site that has done tests on FC lines. Braid stretches about .5%
http://tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
Wayne P. reply :
On 4/15/2014 at 6:37 AM, Tywithay said:Not all fluorocarbons are created equal. The more manageable and limp the line, the more likely it will be stretchy. Invizx for example, very stretchy, easy to cast. Other lines like Shooter offer great abrasion resistance, little to no stretch, but it's difficult to handle because it is so stiff. It's not necessarily a myth, but it's not really true that fluoro has "no" stretch.
Stretching fluoro can indeed damage the line if you go too far. It will not bounce back to its original shape like mono lines will. Even with mono though, once you get past a certain point, it will weaken the line.
"Little or no stretch" does not apply to any fluorocabon line. The larger the diameter, the less stretch it has -- same as nylon mono.
Shooter has less stretch than most other fluorocarbon lines in the same diameter.
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
Smallmouth Hunter reply :
Even braid has 3-4% stretch.
TorqueConverter reply :
No serious discussion can be had without breaking down "stretch" into plastic and elastic stretches. The two forms of are not same. Elasticity occurs at light loads and is hated by some. It results in the loss of power in hook-sets and in masking some of the softer bites. Plasticity (stretching and deforming of a plastic) occurs at high loads near or at the breaking point of the line.
A line with a very low elasticity and high plasticity should only stretch when breaking off a hangup for example. The line will permanently deform by getting longer and thinner right before the point of failure.
A line with high elasticity and low plasticity with stretch like a rubber band when setting the hook and fishing a fish. The line will become longer and thinner, then return to it's original state.
Easy handling monos are typically highly elastic with low plasticity lines and a good benchmark 100% fluorocarbon should be a low elasticity line with high plasticity.
primetime reply :
a (Flourine) Monofilament line will stretch more than a (Nylon) Mono of equal diameter, and good old Mono will not have the memory issues that fluorocarbons have as they stretch and are never the same, where a Limp Mono like Trilene Xl may stretch but it will bounce back to it's original shape or much closer for much longer.
Only advantage I see with fluorocarbon is abrasion resistance, as the invisibility and light refraction is hardly different than nylon, and all water is tinted differently so why not just go with a copoly which gives you a coated or fused mono and many lines labeled as Mono are actually copoly's if you look at diameter, breaking strength, and read the back....
Yes, Fluro will sink, but if I want to fish a crankbait on 10lb test, I am better off with 2lb dia even though braid floats since it will get my lure to dive faster to it's depth since it has less resistance due to being thinner, and fish will not feel it or see it any more than any other line if you color it to match water conditions. I was at a recent Bass Tournament in Orlando and all the pros who pitch fluoro main line for flipping, cranking, finesse etc...all had braid main lines or all braid, and my guess is nylon mono since it floats....Cranks were all on what appeared to be light braid which is what would make sense for many reasons. I do see fluorocarbon line being good for leader in situations where I need abrasion resistance like Rock, salt water, bridges etc....Otherwise, I will save and fish a hybrid if I want strength vs. dia and have UV resistance, fluorocarbon sensitivity and look....just a thought after researching this stuff now for months and realizing that companies are not selling line anymore at same pace since braid never gets re spooled once you learn how to use it...Go read mags from a few years back...All Braid all the time
bassin is addicting reply :
i bought the "old" XPS....the white box.
thanks for the replies... i was just surprised of the stretch... it was more than i had anticipated and am wondering how that will affect the hookset on a jig, etc..
A-Jay reply :
On 4/15/2014 at 1:06 PM, primetime said:a (Flourine) Monofilament line will stretch more than a (Nylon) Mono of equal diameter, and good old Mono will not have the memory issues that fluorocarbons have as they stretch and are never the same, where a Limp Mono like Trilene Xl may stretch but it will bounce back to it's original shape or much closer for much longer.
Only advantage I see with fluorocarbon is abrasion resistance, as the invisibility and light refraction is hardly different than nylon, and all water is tinted differently so why not just go with a copoly which gives you a coated or fused mono and many lines labeled as Mono are actually copoly's if you look at diameter, breaking strength, and read the back....
Yes, Fluro will sink, but if I want to fish a crankbait on 10lb test, I am better off with 2lb dia even though braid floats since it will get my lure to dive faster to it's depth since it has less resistance due to being thinner, and fish will not feel it or see it any more than any other line if you color it to match water conditions. I was at a recent Bass Tournament in Orlando and all the pros who pitch fluoro main line for flipping, cranking, finesse etc...all had braid main lines or all braid, and my guess is nylon mono since it floats....Cranks were all on what appeared to be light braid which is what would make sense for many reasons. I do see fluorocarbon line being good for leader in situations where I need abrasion resistance like Rock, salt water, bridges etc....Otherwise, I will save and fish a hybrid if I want strength vs. dia and have UV resistance, fluorocarbon sensitivity and look....just a thought after researching this stuff now for months and realizing that companies are not selling line anymore at same pace since braid never gets re spooled once you learn how to use it...Go read mags from a few years back...All Braid all the time
X2
The one Benefit of Fluorocarbon Line is realized by those who make & sell it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A-Jay
WRB reply :
Been fishing for awhile (over 60 years) and consider myself a decent knot tier. The issues with fluorocarbon fishing line is the polymer is brittle and doesn't perform good under constant stress like knot forces.
The best you can hope for is 80% knot strength, factor that into how you set hooks and the line size you use.
Your 12 lb test FC is about 9.5 lb test at the freshly tied knot*.
another factor to consider is FC line does stretch, the problem it yields after stretching (stays stretched) and that also reduces the line srength becuase the line is smaller in diameter. After snagging your lure and you pull it free, your 12 lb FC is weaker depending on how much force was applied.
to iver come all these issues with FC most of the line sellers label their FC down one size; 14 lb diameter FC is labeled 12 lb test. You are using larger diameter line and are happy becuase becuase it performs well.
Sunline labels thier FC line honestly, most others do not!
Tom
* tried every knot, none yields higher then 80%
bassin is addicting reply :
then...with the issues stated....why use it? it seems to me that after a few decent sized fish....and the stretching/stress on the line...if you catch a few fish...it would need to be replaced after every trip... especially if used as a leader on a jig...with a good hard hookset wouldn't the strength be compromised??
i bought it mainly to put on as a leader to my jig and texas rig setups that i have always used straight braid on.
and to put on a setup i use for cranking... now i am 2nd guessing all of that?
TorqueConverter reply :
On 4/16/2014 at 2:45 AM, bassin is addicting said:then...with the issues stated....why use it? it seems to me that after a few decent sized fish....and the stretching/stress on the line...if you catch a few fish...it would need to be replaced after every trip... especially if used as a leader on a jig...with a good hard hookset wouldn't the strength be compromised??
i bought it mainly to put on as a leader to my jig and texas rig setups that i have always used straight braid on.
and to put on a setup i use for cranking... now i am 2nd guessing all of that?
I use it when I want to fish a translucent monofilament type line. It's not nearly as elastic as most monos, typically has a smaller diameter to an equivalently rated "mono" and is UV resistant.
The stretching I have observed has occurred when breaking off a stuck bait. There is some elastic stretch when fishing the line, but this type of stretch is healthy and does not damage the line. The stretch that occurs when breaking off is the result of the plasticity of the line and is damaging to the portion of line being stretched. This type of stretch should not be happening when fishing and catching fish. The loads experienced by the line are too small to push it to it's breaking point. If plastic stretch is occurring with a fluoro line then the line is too weak for that application or some ridiculous hooksets are being done.
If your fluoro is stretching and staying elongated then you have pushed the line close to it's breaking point and are experiencing stretch from plasticity. This is bad. A little bit of rubberband like stretch (elasticity) is healthy and normal. A 100% fluorocarbon should have less elasticity than most monos. If it doesn't then it's time to change fluorocarbon lines.
WRB reply :
Read the link Scott posted, good unbiased info by TT*. The stretch factor is clearly defined as is knot strength.
I use FC line because it has less drag coefficient, goes through the water easier, and sinks; both mono and braid float. I like the way FC line feels used with both jigs and worms, hate the knot strength issues. You got to get bit first and FC strike to man hour ratio is higher than mono or braid where I fish, otherwise I wouldn't bother with it.
Tom
* dated info! they may have an update?
Scott F reply :
On 4/16/2014 at 7:17 AM, WRB said:I use FC line because it has less drag coefficient,
You've posted this before but I could not find anything online that talks about FC and drag. Can you tell me where I can find information on this?
WRB reply :
Put out 50 yards of mono behind your boat and drag it about 5 mph for 200 yards without anything attached.On 4/16/2014 at 8:15 AM, Scott F said:You've posted this before but I could not find anything online that talks about FC and drag. Can you tell me where I can find information on this?
Then put out the same size FC line the same distance, the force on your is about 1/2, very noticeable. First noticed this when taking out twist in my spinning outfits line by dragging it behind my boat, FC had less line pressure.
I will look my archives for FC drag coefficient, it was a selling point back when it first came out.
Tom
Scott F reply :
OK. That I can understand.
aavery2 reply :
maybe it has to do with mono lines ability to become saturated with water, and fc not.
primetime reply :
If Fishing Fluorocarbon line gives you more confidence when on the water, then I would suggest going with Fluorocarbon. Confidence is key when it comes fishing and regardless if it is "Invisible" or has more stretch etc... If you believe that it will help you get more strikes, then it will. I know several guys who use fluoro for finesse fishing and cranking and they would never use anything else even with the troubles they have had with certain lines.
I remember the days when braids were very tough to fish and it was almost like casting yarn, but now the line manufactures have been able to improve braids drastically each year, and I am very confident that Fluoro will be very good across the board for the most part in a few years.
I can remember when the original Vanish hit the market and other fluorocarbons and they were super stiff, brittle and just a nightmare. I can tell the difference in the quality of Stren Fluorocast since I have tried it a few times over the years and each spool seems to be better, and that is also true for Berkley and others.
As Much as I dislike using Fluoro, I almost always use it as a leader for dropshotting in clear water or when fishing in phosphate pits which have alot of bottom structure that will cause braid to fray, and a leader is something I believe helps me get more strikes, and lose less fish due to all the sharp objects in the water.
I have a tournament this weekend and I plan on using alot of finesse tactics, and I will be using mostly fluoro leaders simply because 1% of my mind tells me that it is the right move, and even though I will rant about it not being any less visible etc....I still use it just in case it truly does help with stealth even if it gets me just one extra strike.....If I take my time with tying knots, and I use a Flurocarbon Leader material, not just line, I find the knots to be really good. I have no idea if leader material is any different, but an old timer who has 50 years under his belt tells me it is absolutely necessary, so why risk it? Seagaur & Triple fish leader are ready to go....
A-Jay reply :
On 4/16/2014 at 8:57 AM, primetime said:If Fishing Fluorocarbon line gives you more confidence when on the water, then I would suggest going with Fluorocarbon. Confidence is key when it comes fishing and regardless if it is "Invisible" or has more stretch etc... If you believe that it will help you get more strikes, then it will. I know several guys who use fluoro for finesse fishing and cranking and they would never use anything else even with the troubles they have had with certain lines.
I remember the days when braids were very tough to fish and it was almost like casting yarn, but now the line manufactures have been able to improve braids drastically each year, and I am very confident that Fluoro will be very good across the board for the most part in a few years.
I can remember when the original Vanish hit the market and other fluorocarbons and they were super stiff, brittle and just a nightmare. I can tell the difference in the quality of Stren Fluorocast since I have tried it a few times over the years and each spool seems to be better, and that is also true for Berkley and others.
As Much as I dislike using Fluoro, I almost always use it as a leader for dropshotting in clear water or when fishing in phosphate pits which have alot of bottom structure that will cause braid to fray, and a leader is something I believe helps me get more strikes, and lose less fish due to all the sharp objects in the water.
I have a tournament this weekend and I plan on using alot of finesse tactics, and I will be using mostly fluoro leaders simply because 1% of my mind tells me that it is the right move, and even though I will rant about it not being any less visible etc....I still use it just in case it truly does help with stealth even if it gets me just one extra strike.....If I take my time with tying knots, and I use a Flurocarbon Leader material, not just line, I find the knots to be really good. I have no idea if leader material is any different, but an old timer who has 50 years under his belt tells me it is absolutely necessary, so why risk it? Seagaur & Triple fish leader are ready to go....
So you're just sipping the Kool-Aid . . . . . .
A-Jay
Brian Needham reply :
this thread is way to reasonable to make sense to me, LOL.
I use FC on everything...... though I have dabbled with the thought of braid n' leader setup.
for jigs, shakyheads, stuff fished on a semi or full slack line I cant make myself buy into braid. FC just has more sensitivity in those applications....... real or perceived I don't know, but it is what I have made myself believe.
Jon, IMO if you are not fishing clear water, I don't know if I would even worry about a leader. I have fished the XPS and felt it was good stuff.
as with most stuff fishing it boils down to what gives you confidence...... for me it is FC, for many it is braid....... I still know guys that use mono on everything and have no issues putting plenty of fish in the boat.
Clickster reply :
“ Fluorocarbon line looks a lot like mono. But it’s a different material, and transmits vibrations much better. A lot of fishermen believe that fluorocarbon is more sensitive because it has less stretch than mono, but according to the good folks at Stren, that isn’t the case. My good friend Eric Naig at Berkley says that all nylon monofilament contains 18 to 35 percent stretch, while most fluorocarbon contains 28 to 38 percent. And stretch in braided line is in the 2 to 7 percent range. The difference is that nylon has a stretch recovery, or rubber band effect. Fluorocarbon may elongate, but differently. Actually the density of the line is what makes it more sensitive." -Bill Dance
"Now, Bill confirms the density aspect of fluorocarbon, and its applicability to creating a better feel. However, he is righting a wrong here by telling aspiring anglers that in the marketing of this line there has been a misconception. I applaud Bill’s integrity here, and expect nothing less from this indisputable fishing icon. While fluorocarbon may be marketed as being low in stretch, it actually stretches more than monofilament." -John Warren
The above was taken from this blog article. Very interesting read.
http://fishingwithconfidence.net/fluorocarbon.html
WRB reply :
I started using FC leader material back in the late 80's for marlin and tuna tournaments because the boats using it were winning. Talk about problems, the early FC would explode in fibers under pressure of fighting big fish for a few hours! More strikes met better chance at winning and FC improved strike ratios back then and does today.
The firs FC line Seaguar followed by Sunline before domestic FC line became available. Quality problems have never been a big issue with Seaguar or Sunline, cost has been a factor.
When you break off a big bass half way to the boat for no apparent reason, you get nervous, I do! But you first need to hook that big bass and therein lies the problem.
At night I never use FC line!
Tom
tcbass reply :
On 4/16/2014 at 9:51 AM, Clickster said:“ Fluorocarbon line looks a lot like mono. But it’s a different material, and transmits vibrations much better. A lot of fishermen believe that fluorocarbon is more sensitive because it has less stretch than mono, but according to the good folks at Stren, that isn’t the case. My good friend Eric Naig at Berkley says that all nylon monofilament contains 18 to 35 percent stretch, while most fluorocarbon contains 28 to 38 percent. And stretch in braided line is in the 2 to 7 percent range. The difference is that nylon has a stretch recovery, or rubber band effect. Fluorocarbon may elongate, but differently. Actually the density of the line is what makes it more sensitive." -Bill Dance
"Now, Bill confirms the density aspect of fluorocarbon, and its applicability to creating a better feel. However, he is righting a wrong here by telling aspiring anglers that in the marketing of this line there has been a misconception. I applaud Bill’s integrity here, and expect nothing less from this indisputable fishing icon. While fluorocarbon may be marketed as being low in stretch, it actually stretches more than monofilament." -John Warren
The above was taken from this blog article. Very interesting read.
http://fishingwithconfidence.net/fluorocarbon.html
Interesting.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
I've read that article and it makes sense. I take Tackle Tour's stuff with a grain of salt, but they did a fluoro shoot out that supports a lot of what this article claims. The Bass Pro XPS actually scored pretty well.
bassin is addicting reply :
thanks guys....i am better informed now.
the Roadtrip will allow me to test FC a lot better than my home water since i will be fishing (and catching, i hope) for 9 days straight and i'll be able to determine how well i like it for leaders, main line for cranks, etc. and i'll be able to pick the brains of everyone.
i appreciate all the good, detailed info..
HookSetDon reply :
Interesting article, good read
Hi Salenity reply :
I'd be curios to know what stretches the least between say 15# and 25# FC from the same manufacturer.
I could use either for a jig but would prefer the one with the least stretch. I'd also like to know if L&L makes the like stretchier. < I think that's a word. LOL
Tim Kelly reply :
I've got 15lb mono on one reel and 15lb fluoro on another. I can never remember which reel has which, but if I pull a couple off feet of each out and give them a pull I know instantly. The mono stretches far more.
Delaware Valley Tackle reply :
On 4/17/2014 at 9:54 PM, Hi Salenity said:I'd be curios to know what stretches the least between say 15# and 25# FC from the same manufacturer.
I could use either for a jig but would prefer the one with the least stretch. I'd also like to know if L&L makes the like stretchier. < I think that's a word. LOL
Reel Magic, WD-40 etc. work by slightly degrading the line while making it softer and more manageable. KVD L&L works differently from what I understand by coating and bonding with the line. I use L&L on the rare occasions I'm not spooled with braid (sometimes even then)
WIGuide reply :
On 4/16/2014 at 11:44 PM, bassin is addicting said:thanks guys....i am better informed now.
the Roadtrip will allow me to test FC a lot better than my home water since i will be fishing (and catching, i hope) for 9 days straight and i'll be able to determine how well i like it for leaders, main line for cranks, etc. and i'll be able to pick the brains of everyone.
i appreciate all the good, detailed info..
Make sure to keep an open mind. I've used FC for the last few years and haven't had any of the issues most people here talk about.
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