Advice on Avid X Rod for Shimano Stradic Ci4+ 2025
hawgwash reply :
Ok I’m tired of crap gear and so I’ve decided to spend the money to finally get something decent and dependable. After much research I’ve decided to get the Shimano Stradic Ci4+ 3000 FB and I’m trying to decide on a rod to pair it with. I’m looking at the St. Croix Avid X Spinning Rod (AXS70MF).
My only decision is which model of the Avid X to get? Their site lists several, but I’m partial to the 7ft models. They have medium/fast, medium light/fast and medium heavy/fast. I also want a single piece rod.
Anyone have any experience with these Avid X rods? Just looking for some advice on which one to pair with the Stradic.
BankBasser reply :
I fished the regular Avid (same blank) spinning rods for years with Stradic ci4 reels, though I had 6'6" models with the 1000 size reel. The Avid series is where St Croix starts to shine. For the 7' rods you might consider the 2500 size reel instead. It'd give you more than enough line and save some weight (I'd probably still use the 1000 size). As far as which power to get that depends on it's use. If you could elaborate on that a better recommendation could be given. The 7' m/f you mention would be a good place to start. Weightless plastics, wacky rig, neko rig, some smaller cranks and small t-rigs could be thrown with that.
hawgwash reply :
BankBasser, thanks for the reply. I’m fishing mainly for bass, but I’ve been getting a lot of big pike, too. So I want a setup with some backbone in case I run into a monster.
BankBasser reply :
If you're wanting to target bass and stick to spinning gear I'd stay with the medium power rod and enjoy the fight when you get hit by a larger pike. The rod will be fine and the fight will be fun.
Further North reply :
I've got an Avid X casting rod that I really like. It was quite a jump from the "regular" Avid series in my opinion.
If you're after pike too...and you're really trying to catch "a monster", I'd bump up to the medium heavy.
You're going to wind up throwing heavier lures for pike, eventually, if you target them. You don't need to throw huge, multi-ounce lures...but 5/8 oz. is way on the light end for bigger pike.
Angry John reply :
At first I was going to recommend the 68mxf Thai I have and got for my son. It works well for 1/8 jigs with small trailers weightless worms and is a handy rod for skipping docks. If you do a lot of open water fishing and don't use a bait caster then the mhf might be a better all around choice considering your now talking pike and a larger reel.
Further North reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 11:02 AM, BankBasser said:If you're wanting to target bass and stick to spinning gear I'd stay with the medium power rod and enjoy the fight when you get hit by a larger pike. The rod will be fine and the fight will be fun.
The only thing I'd offer here is: Use enough rod.
Long fights with pike and muskie really risk killing the fish, particularly in warmer water temps.
hawgwash reply :
I was thinking of the Avid X 7’ / Medium Heavy / Fast (AXS70MHF), but now I see it’s kind of light (only does 8-14lb line). Might have to look for something with a little more backbone and bigger line weight rating.
Further North reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 11:10 AM, hawgwash said:I was thinking of the Avid X 7’ / Medium Heavy / Fast (AXS70MHF). I’m pretty sure the Stradic 3000 would still be good enough for that setup.
If I were going to target pike (and that's what I do, most days on the water) that's the rod I'd pick.
I can't speak to the reel, but it seems about right.
LCG reply :
The medium power should be more than sufficient. Just today I caught an 8lb carp on a st Croix mojo 6'8 m-xf spinning rod. It was a fight but it had the power to bring him in. If your mainly targeting bass I would choose the medium. Especially if you have or might be getting a medium heavy baitcasting setup.
Turkey sandwich reply :
It's a great series of rods! I have an Avid X drop shot rod that I love. Also, when you look at the line weight rating, that's for the diameter. If it's rated for 14LB mono, it'll do fine with 30-40lb braid.
The biggest thing to consider is the size of lure you're going to be fishing. Also, are you on shore or fishing from a boat? Are you only going to be carrying 1 rod?
I'll echo either the Medium or Medium heavy for versatility. (I've caught several pike and musky on M and MH powered St. Croix rods, and both have the backbone to handle the fish.)
If you're fishing primarily treble hooked lures (crankbaits, large topwaters, jerk baits, etc), a Moderate or Moderate Fast action is ideal. If you're fishing primarily single hooked lures (T-rigs, C-rigs, soft swim baits, jigs, etc) a Fast action rod is much more ideal.
Fishing_FF reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 2:42 PM, Turkey sandwich said:The biggest thing to consider is the size of lure you're going to be fishing. Also, are you on shore or fishing from a boat? Are you only going to be carrying 1 rod?
Both the M and MH will give you enough backbone, but the difference is what lures and weights will you be throwing on it?
I have a pair of Avid X, a M and MH, both with Stradic Ci4+ reels on them. Since I’m fishing from the shore, I generally carry only 2 rods. The M matches the lure weights of the topwater (frogs, poppers, props), crankbaits, and jerkbaits I throw. The MH is my plastics rod, throwing weightless stickbaits, wacky rigs, T-rigs, jigs, and smaller swimbaits like the Gambler EZ Swimmer.
Does is cover everything? No, I have a ML for dropshotting and 4” weightless Senko and a H rod for big spinnerbaits and swimbaits like Gambler Big EZ and GZs. But the pair of Avid X covers 90% of the baits I throw.
Pick what you want to throw and match the rod power to that. ????
punch reply :
Definitely go with the 7' Medium fast avid x. It's going to be the best overall stick. You can toss finesse baits, balsa cranks, and even a light texas rig. It'll do everything. I've found myself adding more and more quality 7' medium spinning rods into my lineup because they are so versatile.
I'll 2nd the suggestion for a 2500 series Ci4. You're not really gaining any advantage with a 3000, and getting a slightly heavier reel. The avid X's are crazy light, and the 2500 would feel perfect on it. The 2500's have a ton of line capacity and do really well fighting bigger fish. The drag is amazing.
LonnieP reply :
I'd also recommend the medium /fast. The mh is more closer to other companies heavy rods.
Vilas15 reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 11:33 PM, punch said:I'll 2nd the suggestion for a 2500 series Ci4. You're not really gaining any advantage with a 3000, and getting a slightly heavier reel. The avid X's are crazy light, and the 2500 would feel perfect on it. The 2500's have a ton of line capacity and do really well fighting bigger fish. The drag is amazing.
3000 will have smoother/stronger drag, cast further because line comes off the spool easier, faster retrieve rate due to bigger spool, and likely balance better since the Ci4 reels are already so light. I would go with Ci4 3000 and 7' M/F.
hawgwash reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 2:45 AM, Vilas15 said:3000 will have smoother/stronger drag, cast further because line comes off the spool easier, faster retrieve rate due to bigger spool, and likely balance better since the Ci4 reels are already so light. I would go with Ci4 3000 and 7' M/F.
Thanks for the advice everyone. This is the setup I'm going to go with.
Further North reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 11:45 AM, Luke G. said:The medium power should be more than sufficient. Just today I caught an 8lb carp on a st Croix mojo 6'8 m-xf spinning rod. It was a fight but it had the power to bring him in. If your mainly targeting bass I would choose the medium. Especially if you have or might be getting a medium heavy baitcasting setup.
It might be...until you tangle with a 20, 25, or 30 lb. pike.
They eat 8 lb. carp....
It all depends on if you are willing to kill the fish to land it. I'm not.
It's a personal decision, and one I'm not willing to criticize, but I'm also not going to dance around the facts: Not using enough rod (or line, or reel) on a big pike or musky is going to kill some decades old fish. It's not debatable, not a matter of "if", it is a matter of "when".
I'd focus my decision on the species I was targeting, and work from there:
- Targeting bass, might tie into a 36" plus pike: Medium Power.
- Targeting pike, will use often for bass: Heavy Power.
hawgwash reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 6:59 AM, Further North said:It might be...until you tangle with a 20, 25, or 30 lb. pike.
They eat 8 lb. carp....
It all depends on if you are willing to kill the fish to land it. I'm not.
It's a personal decision, and one I'm not willing to criticize, but I'm also not going to dance around the facts: Not using enough rod (or line, or reel) on a big pike or musky is going to kill some decades old fish. It's not debatable, not a matter of "if", it is a matter of "when".
I'd focus my decision on the species I was targeting, and work from there:
- Targeting bass, might tie into a 36" plus pike: Medium Power.
- Targeting pike, will use often for bass: Heavy Power.
So then would I be better off with a medium heavy Avid X rod? That's the one I was originally going to get for the Stradic 3000
Further North reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 9:06 AM, hawgwash said:So then would I be better off with a medium heavy Avid X rod? That's the one I was originally going to get for the Stradic 3000
In my head, it depends on what fish you're targeting with that rig.
If you're after bass and will take pike...choose lighter action. If you're after pike and will take bass (what I tend to do, most days) go the other way 'round.
A big pike it's going to spool you out...but they can be amazingly resistant to attempts to bring them in unless you're rigged for it.
By "big pike" I mean fish that are 3 ft. long and bigger...and probably 40" and bigger. They weigh in excess of 15 lbs, unless there's something weird going on...
That's a 37" fish. She weighed north of 20 pounds. I'm really glad I didn't try to pull her in with a medium action rod...not because it wouldn't have been fun...but because I didn't want to stress her out, or possibly kill her. I want her DNA back in the lake for years to come. YMMV, and while I am OK with that...I can't support it...if that makes any sense...
There are hundreds, probably thousands, of folks who have lucked into a big pike or musky on a walleye rig, or a bass set-up. That's cool...but what tends to get ignored when celebrating that is that for every single one of those, there are hundreds, if not thousands of bite-offs, broken lines and lost lures for folks who never even get to see the fish, and plenty of folks who see them but never net them.
To paraphrase a line from a movie I like: "Just because we can doesn't mean we should."
Use enough rod.
Further North reply :
I thought I'd take a moment to clarify.
I'm a pike guy. I'll take musky, even fish for them specifically at times...I caught 20 last season, and well over 100 pike. That's just to establish boanfides, so folks know where I'm coming from.
I don't chase 50" fish. Honestly, they bore me. Most of them are like catching a log, with a lotta lifting and grunting...not my thing, though I learn a lot form folks who go after them.
My target fish is some kind of esox, between about 36" and 48". they offer me the best combination of challenge and excitement. Other folks will vary from that, and that's cool...to quote a guy with really big forearms: I yam what I yam."
Given the above, and skipping my fly gear because it'll just confuse the issue, here's my two key rigs:
- Casting: Temple Forks Outfiters GTS P797 (that's 7 ft, 9", XH, line wt. 12 - 30#, lure wt, 1/2 oz. - 2 oz.), there's a Shimano Calais DC on the rod, that holds more line than any esox will ever run out and has plenty of drag for fish up to 50", so far.
- Spinning: Temple Forks Outfiters GTS TR HSS884-2 (that's 8 ft, 8", Mag M, line wt. 10 - 20#, lure wt, 3/4 oz. - 3 oz.), there's a Cabela's Tournement ZX 4000 reel on there, not because it's best reel ever, but because it balances the rod and gets the job done, again up to 50", so far.
Both carry 65# braid to 30# Tyger Leader with Mustad Fastach clips...cuz I like 'em. Both will throw a 1 ounce spoon about half way to Mars, on a calm day.
Further point of clarification: I'm not a spinning rig guy, with a few exceptions, all bass and all super finesse that simply aren't fun to fish with a baitcasting rig, for me. That TFO GTS TR HSS884-2 is on the boat when there is a spinning rig guy with me for one reason and one reason only: A few years back, my brother was throwing a 3/4 Daredevel for pike on Lake of the Woods with a 7 ft. medium action St. Croix rod. A 45" Musky came up and ate that spoon, and it took him the better part of a half hour to get her to the boat. Once we saw her, we'd have been delighted if she'd thrown the bait...but it was wedged in the corner of her jaw and that wasn't gonna happen.
We got her to the boat, unhooked her...and spent the next hour rejuvenating her. She finally swam away under her own power, just under the surface...I wish I could say I was 100% certain she survived, but I'd be lying if I did. I'd call it 50% - 50%.
Had my brother hooked that big girl on that TFO GTS TR HSS884-2, we'd have had her at the boat in minutes, taken a picture, spent 10 minutes making sure she was OK, and been virtually certain of her survival.
I firmly believe, "Use enough rod", and I'll argue passionately that we shouldn't target 3 ft. esox and above with anything less than it takes to get the job done...and by get the job done, I mean get that fish to the boat in 5 minutes or less.
Is it a different game when we're targeting bass and hook a pike or musky because they are there? You bet, and it'd be ignorant of me to suggest otherwise.
Sorry to get on a soapbox, but as you've all likely figured out, I've spent a lot of time on this and am pretty confident about where I'm coming from.
BankBasser reply :
On 5/24/2018 at 10:57 AM, hawgwash said:I’m fishing mainly for bass
My recommendation was in response to what he said early on. I get what you're saying and applaud your conviction and agree mh/f would be the better tool if targeting pike. But, since bass was the main target...
Further North reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 10:29 AM, BankBasser said:My recommendation was in response to what he said early on. I get what you're saying and applaud your conviction and agree mh/f would be the better tool if targeting pike. But, since bass was the main target...
Yup.
I was just reacting to the folks who say that medium will "get the job done". It will, but it won't be pretty and he needs to be prepared to kill the fish.
Patrickcatalano reply :
I have a 6’6” avid x medium fast rod with my Stradic (3000) and it works like a dream. I use for just about everything from trout to pike to bass. If you want a combo that is reliable, I would pair these together. It works so well that friends of mine won’t put it down when they use it.
hawgwash reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 7:55 PM, Patrickcatalano said:I have a 6’6” avid x medium fast rod with my Stradic (3000) and it works like a dream. I use for just about everything from trout to pike to bass. If you want a combo that is reliable, I would pair these together. It works so well that friends of mine won’t put it down when they use it.
Thanks, Patrick. So should I go for the 7' MF or the 6' 6" MF? On the St Croix website they list 2 7' medium fast Avid X rods - AXS70MF and AXS70MF2. I'm assuming that would mean the "2" is a two-piece rod?
As Further North pointed out, I do not wish to inadvertently kill any fish, not if I can help it. I do usually fish just for bass, but I also have a lot of pike smacking my lures. Within the last 2 weeks I've caught almost a dozen pike while bass fishing, so they are out there and it does happen. The pike that I have caught were all safely returned to the water and I watched them all swim off. I do have another setup that I know could handle pike better if I decide to start purposely targeting that fish (6' 6" Ugly Stik GX2 with an Okuma FINA 4000).
Thanks for all your help and advice 
Further North reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 11:03 PM, hawgwash said:As Further North pointed out, I do not wish to inadvertently kill any fish, not if I can help it. I do usually fish just for bass, but I also have a lot of pike smacking my lures. Within the last 2 weeks I've caught almost a dozen pike while bass fishing, so they are out there and it does happen. The pike that I have caught were all safely returned to the water and I watched them all swim off. I do have another setup that I know could handle pike better if I decide to start purposely targeting that fish (6' 6" Ugly Stik GX2 with an Okuma FINA 4000).
It sounds like your targeting bass and picking up "bonus" pike.
I'd go with the lighter action rod under those circumstances. Odds are slim you'll tie into a pike bigger than 3 ft. whule your chasing bass, and that'll diminish as the water warms up and the big girls go deep.
Not sure where you are, but around here we've had a weird start to the season. We had ice on our lakes three days before the opener...then water temps shot up to the mid 60s in the next week and a half.
Big pike will be shallow right around ice out, muskies a bit after that. With the weird start to our season here, there's been a lot of big esox shallow so far, but with air temps in the low 90s this weekend, that's gonna come to a screeching halt...
hawgwash reply :
Just saw the new st. Croix bass X spinning rod. Decisions decisions
BankBasser reply :
The Avid X is a nicer rod. The difference between SCII (Bass X) and SCIII (Avid X) is quite noticeable.
HookRz reply :
On 5/25/2018 at 2:45 AM, Vilas15 said:3000 will have smoother/stronger drag, cast further because line comes off the spool easier, faster retrieve rate due to bigger spool, and likely balance better since the Ci4 reels are already so light. I would go with Ci4 3000 and 7' M/F.
The spool diameter on the 2500 and 3000 is the same. The only difference is depth and line capacity.
Vilas15 reply :
On 5/27/2018 at 6:20 PM, HookRz said:The spool diameter on the 2500 and 3000 is the same. The only difference is depth and line capacity.
Well if thats the case then you lose all those advantages. The only difference would the the 3000 is a bit heavier, which could be a good thing depending on what rod its going on.
HookRz reply :
On 5/28/2018 at 11:30 AM, Vilas15 said:Well if thats the case then you lose all those advantages. The only difference would the the 3000 is a bit heavier, which could be a good thing depending on what rod its going on.
In the Shimanos the weights of the 2500 and 3000 are the same. Buy you bring up a good point. In my opinions the Ci4 is too light to balance longer rods with short and split rear grips. In some cases you are better off with a "regular" Stradic. Or add weight to the very rear of the handle. That way you achieve balance with less overall weight. I have a 6'9" Avid X mlxf with a Ci4 2500 with a chair leg rubber tip added that's just perfect, and still weighs an ounce less than the same rod with the regular Stradic. The chair is a bit wobbly however.
Tyler Frye reply :
I have the Avid paired up with a Stradic FK and I love this setup. Running 10 pound power pro typically with an 8 pound seaguar Fluro leader and you could feel a fish fart on that thing. Very nice sensitive setup.
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