Admiting Defeat 2024
Topwaterspook reply :
Okay, folks, I admit it fluorocarbon has beaten me. I haven't found any I really like. I guess from now on I'm only going to use it for leaders. Have any of you come to the same conclusion?
00 mod reply :
Which ones have you tried stitch?
Jeff
iabass8 reply :
nope. sunline sniper/seaguar tatsu. never looked back.
.ghoti. reply :
I'm with you topwaterspook. I despise the stuff. braid too.
Nicolas Matteoli reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 5:39 AM, .ghoti. said:I'm with you topwaterspook. I despise the stuff. braid too.
Don't want to take this thread off topic, but why don't you like braid?
tomustang reply :
Not much of a fan of it either.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 4:54 AM, Topwaterspook said:Okay, folks, I admit it fluorocarbon has beaten me. I haven't found any I really like. I guess from now on I'm only going to use it for leaders. Have any of you come to the same conclusion?
Your not admitting defeat your just showing your natural wisdom. I hate it too and have given up on it.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 6:54 AM, Nicolas Matteoli said:
Don't want to take this thread off topic, but why don't you like braid?
Now I don't feel so bad that mono is on the vast majority of my reels. I've got fluoro on one B/C reel and braid on three. Braid on 3 spinning reels and mono on the rest. I have to say that I prefer braid on a baitcast reel better than on a spinning reel even tho I know braid is suppose to handle better on spinning reels than mono.
However, I don't hate braid. I feel it has its uses. My STX-L with 40# Performance probably gets use 90% of the time when I'm fishing with my bro-in-law in Florida. Locally braid is lucky to get used 5% of the time. Florida sees an unweighted plastic being thrown into lily pads most of the time while locally I use spinnerbaits, crankbaits and topwater most of the time.
EDIT: My fluoro set-up hasn't see a lot of use so I can't say positively that I don't like it, but will say I don't like what happens to the line when you have to break it when unable to retrieve a lure due to a snag.
bigbill reply :
I'm slow to accept change nor try to change from my secure way that I do things. I'm still using the copolymer, yozuri, vicious and Cajun red mono. I been using the Excalibur silver thread too. I really like the Excalibur silver thread but it's not cheap. I tend to find the other brands on sale. I also use the Cajun red line on my lighter tackle and the heavier red Cajun line for my leaders on my C Rigs.
Line just isn't line anymore and any brand of line just won't do. Let's face any reel that will wind line will work and any rod with a good reel seat and eyes will function.
When it comes to the line it's our weakest link. We need to use a good quality line.
It's funny that I just wound some braid on my baitcaster setup
for hopping and swimming jigs last night. I hope I like it.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 7:28 AM, bigbill said:IIt's funny that I just wound some braid on my baitcaster setup
for hopping and swimming jigs last night. I hope I like it.
Roadwarrior has stated more than once that his hook-up ratio with jigs went up after switching to braid.
DelcoSol reply :
I hear you. During the past year I have tried about six different flurocarbons from various price ranges. From what I gather anything under $20 price range is really bad. I was about to give it up until I just recently tried the Abrazex and really like it. The Tatsu will be the next spool.
Topwaterspook reply :
Jeff, I've tried Berkeley Transition, Vanish, BPS, Vicious, and Seaguar. There have been days when it's warm and relatively windless that line conditioned flouro has worked. Mostly it's like trying to fish with a clockspring. I've not fished with a co-polymer. I have no idea how invisible it's supposed to be.
Brian6428 reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 7:04 AM, Dwight Hottle said:Your not admitting defeat your just showing your natural wisdom. I hate it too and have given up on it.
What line do you use, then?
00 mod reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 8:21 AM, Topwaterspook said:Jeff, I've tried Berkeley Transition, Vanish, BPS, Vicious, and Seaguar. There have been days when it's warm and relatively windless that line conditioned flouro has worked. Mostly it's like trying to fish with a clockspring. I've not fished with a co-polymer. I have no idea how invisible it's supposed to be.
Try a good Co-poly like Yo-zuri hybrid or CXX. Make sure to use plenty of line conditioner and you will like it much better. Plus the price is right on the money! Next year in Mexico, I will have plenty of 20lb Yo-zuri you can spool up all of your reels if you like it. I bought a 3lb spool (~8700 yrds)
Jeff
bigbill reply :
I like the yozuri hybred and the Excalibur silver thread too. The vicious feels like the Excalibur silver thread AN which seems a tad stiffer. I do wet my knots when tying them. I do get better hook sets with copolymer over using a standard mono. Copolymer has less stretch. Bill
Catt reply :
Another no for fluorocarbon & copolymer, been there done that aint going back!
Berkley Big Game on all but one rod which has braid.
And no you aint gonna catch more bass than me cause I don't use fluro!
WiregrassRiverRat reply :
I love invizx.. I just hate the stretch in mono.. unless I need it.. I have seen people go down a power on all their rods and go straight braid.. that maybe a bit adventurous for me.
cddan reply :
Yea co polymers are not too bad ya might like them I have had alot of trouble with floro breaking on me.I gave up.Wanna try again just scared.Missed a lot of good fish to floro. But I'll try again one day.I just buy a big spool of mono and change line as often as i can or flip it.P-line co polymer was once my go to line ,gets expensive though but its tough.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 5:39 AM, .ghoti. said:I'm with you topwaterspook. I despise the stuff. braid too.
Can't say I hate as I've never used it. If the object of F/C to be invisible, why not just put on a FC leader and use a line that manages well. I've use F/C leaders many times, have found zero advantage in getting more strikes, from species they are not line shy to ones that are supposed to be very line shy like mackerel. I did find that my knots were not as good with F/C leaders, leader material is not the same as main line.
I'm, a braid user and love it, with 1 exception and that's for using lures that continuously spin 360 degrees ( barracuda tubes), the line twist especially on a spinning reel is real bad. I can troll out mono or copoly, not so with braid. At present I have silver thread 14#, cost was about 5 bucks for 270 yds., has worked well but no better or worse than any other brand.
aceman387 reply :
I tried it and hated it also. I switched to braid and never looked back.
John G reply :
I just put 15# Tatsu on one of my Citica's. It's for my T-Rig and 3/8oz and above jig rod. I am trying it out it to see if it is more sensitive to me than 15# Big Game. I have no problems with going back to Big Game if the Tatsu doesn't work out even though I may try a heavier pound test Yo Zuri Hybrid before going back to Big Game.
APK62 reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 5:39 AM, .ghoti. said:I'm with you topwaterspook. I despise the stuff. braid too.
How did you make out with Suffix 832 on your spinning reel? What are your thoughts?
TrippyJai reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 8:21 AM, Topwaterspook said:Jeff, I've tried Berkeley Transition, Vanish, BPS, Vicious, and Seaguar. There have been days when it's warm and relatively windless that line conditioned flouro has worked. Mostly it's like trying to fish with a clockspring. I've not fished with a co-polymer. I have no idea how invisible it's supposed to be.
Give McCoy Mean Green a try. It's really an all in one co-polymer. I've never had any issues in over 4 years. It's strong, very limp even after leaving it on for 2 seasons, a few casts and it'll become limp again, very good abrasion resistant, knot strength, it does stretch, but less than mono and the price is right. They also claim it's invisible under water, but I can't confirm on that. I love it and use it on every set up except punching. You won't be disappointed. I even pay the extra cost to have it shipped to Canada.
A-Jay reply :
I with you Stitch -
Main Line of Sufix 832 Braid and a leader of Berkley Big Game or more recently Maxima Ultragreen premium copolymer monofilament.
A-Jay
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 9:22 AM, 00 mod said:Try a good Co-poly like Yo-zuri hybrid or CXX. Make sure to use plenty of line conditioner and you will like it much better. Plus the price is right on the money! Next year in Mexico, I will have plenty of 20lb Yo-zuri you can spool up all of your reels if you like it. I bought a 3lb spool (~8700 yrds)
Jeff
I've got 2 bottles of KVD Line Conditioner. Hardly ever remember to use it. One veteran told me he didn't spray the line because he felt it would eventually work its way into the bearings undoing the benefits of his secret sauce. Use mono on a regular basis, and there is no need for a line conditioner.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 9:06 AM, Brian6428 said:What line do you use, then?
I use either yo-zuri hybrid on spinning & maxima ultragreen on casting. The maxima is a little two stiff for spinning. I have heard excellent reviews of mean green mycoy co-polymer as another option.
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 12:25 PM, WiregrassRiverRat said:I love invizx.. I just hate the stretch in mono.. unless I need it.. I have seen people go down a power on all their rods and go straight braid.. that maybe a bit adventurous for me.
I see this comment all the time....indicating or flat out saying fluoro has no stretch. I call bull. Have you read tackletour's fluoro shootouts? Heck, forget the printed hype. Try breaking the line and see for yourself. I've only used one brand of fluoro, but I can tell you it has plenty of stretch. When it breaks, I have to cut off several more feet.
buzzed bait reply :
I've never had any luck with floro myself. I only have mono and braid on all my reels, except for last night i spooled my new (used, but new to me) calcutta with 20lb CXX so hoping to have some good results with that as my small/medium swimbait reel
WiregrassRiverRat reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 9:35 PM, new2BC4bass said:I see this comment all the time....indicating or flat out saying fluoro has no stretch. I call bull. Have you read tackletour's fluoro shootouts? Heck, forget the printed hype. Try breaking the line and see for yourself. I've only used one brand of fluoro, but I can tell you it has plenty of stretch. When it breaks, I have to cut off several more feet.
The stretch of mono vs fluro is significant. .and I have yet to break off on fluoro invizx.. to each his own.. but I really never have to battle my line.. so I dont really understand the frustrations you guys have.. I will confess that it is tougher to get a backlash out with fluoro.. but that has taught me to learn how to set up my reel for each bait and control my casts which has saved my arm and shoulder a bunch..
new2BC4bass reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 11:33 PM, WiregrassRiverRat said:The stretch of mono vs fluro is significant. .and I have yet to break off on fluoro invizx.. to each his own.. but I really never have to battle my line.. so I dont really understand the frustrations you guys have.. I will confess that it is tougher to get a backlash out with fluoro.. but that has taught me to learn how to set up my reel for each bait and control my casts which has saved my arm and shoulder a bunch..
Not according to this article.
http://tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontestpg5.html
Quote: "one thing we can clearly state is, all the fluorocarbon lines we tested have either the same, or in some cases, more stretch than our baseline Trilene XL".
I am not using an expensive fluoro. Got it at DSG because of its relatively inexpensive price. It is 10 pound. I used KVD Line Conditioner on it when I spooled it. Has been applied a couple more times. Last time out I didn't spray, and still had no problems casting. Reel had sat for about a year. I had more trouble with memory from Big Game after it sat for a year....until it had been used enough to take on a bit of water and stretch out the coils.
I have no problems with anyone using flouro. I limit my use mainly because of what I read about its poor knot strength. Don't know where my line broke at, but I really had to back up a ways before it would break. I don't think I would worry too much about knot strength based on the one time I had to break my line. No way would I be exerting that much pressure on a rod.
LMB ANGLER reply :
seaguar makes the best fluorocarbon in the world, but if you only want to use mono then get ANDE mono
Grizzn N Bassin reply :
I have most my problems with light fluro.. 15 is A ok for me..
Arv reply :
I do like fc. I prefer braid though, which is on all my reels except for one and thats only because of its microguides. I have fc on there now but will probably continue on buying yo zuri co poly. I feel like I can tell a difference between copoly and fc, but not enough to pass up on the bang for the buck with copoly. Just my 2 cents.
GaterB reply :
So correct me if I'm wrong, but if fluro has just as much stretch as mono, then the only advantage it would have would be the "invisibility" factor. This is null for me honestly because I never fish gin clear water. If this is the case, then I'd much rather just save money and stick to mono or co poly.
rippin-lips reply :
I've tried 5 different types of FC line in the search to find a good one that I like a lot.
Seaguar invizx and P line are what I first tried based off of all the things I read from other people saying how great they were. They both sucked! Way too much memory. Tried Berkley 100% FC from Walmart. Good line but I was limited to what they carried. Tried bps xps. Also a good line but my closest bps is 2hrs away and their shipping charges are out of control. Finally I tried Sunline sniper when they had the 2/1 deal going. I had no reason to continue my search after that. It's great and has low memory without any kvd l&l. I picked up 12-14-16-20 and it covers everything I need in a FC line. It's a bit pricey without the special but if you can hold out it's worth it. 2 - 200yrd spools for $25
mjseverson24 reply :
I use FC for most of my finesse presentations (dropshot/ weightless plastics) usually 6-12 lbs depending on the lake. I also use FC for lighter jigs and texas rigs usually 12-17 lb. But I also find a good use for it casting swim-jigs in cover and crankbaits on glass rods as the sensitivity is just a little bit better. The biggest advantage of FC is the invisibility factor, but also the semi-slack line strike detecting is very useful. it is a confidence thing for me I like stealth when I am fishing highly pressured waters. I think the difference between FC and mono is best realized by tournament anglers. when the couple extra bites throughout an 8 hour day that FC might give you means the difference between cashing a check or not, I believe it is worth the cost and sometimes frustration. for the recreational angler FC is probably more of a headache than anything else, the backlashing and lack of manageability combined with the poor knot strength if not tied correctly. The biggest factor for me is that is FC didn't have an advantage over other lines in certain situations you would probably not see top professionals using it and winning with it.
Mitch
GaterB reply :
Thanks guys. I've been curious about FC for a while, but the price is what makes me hesitate to pull the trigger. When does Sunline offer the 2/1 deal? Is it an annual thing or was it a one time thing?
rippin-lips reply :
It's at least once a year. Sadly it just ended a week ago.
gallowaypt reply :
I hated invisx fluoro on my spinning reel. It fished like dental floss.
Brian Needham reply :
I enjoy buying and using top shelf gear (within reason), with that I use FC almost 100% of the time.
My reason is simple: Look at the BASS and FLW tours, those guys use FC more than any other 2 lines combined. I understand per technique some use braid, mono, ect. But day in day out, they mostly use FC.
When the majority of the guys on tour start using braid, or mono on 90% of their setups, so will I.
If its good enough for them to put food on the table, then its good enough for me to jack around and have fun with. Soak it down with KVD L&L and have at it.
Primus reply :
On 10/23/2013 at 9:40 AM, GaterB said:So correct me if I'm wrong, but if fluro has just as much stretch as mono, then the only advantage it would have would be the "invisibility" factor. This is null for me honestly because I never fish gin clear water. If this is the case, then I'd much rather just save money and stick to mono or co poly.
I get way more bites fishing jigs/ worms with Floro over any other line. The big advantage that floro has over mono when fishing these baits especially when fishing deep is that the line is more dense and it sinks making it feel more sensitive and you get less bow in the line which also enhances bite detection.Usually premium floro is thinner in diameter than it's mono equivalent.
I believe all line types have their pluses and minuses and there is a place for all 3 types in my arsenal, that said floro is on the majority of my rods. On my casting rods I use XPS which is a good steady line that's affordable. Floro is easy to handle on a casting rod, surprised that some struggle with it.
Spinning rods I usually go with braid with app 7' - 10' floro leader. The exception is my wacky rig rod where I use Seaguar Tatsu which handles very well.
Heavy grass flipping or frog fishing I prefer braid, I still like mono for topwater.
retiredbosn reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 4:54 AM, Topwaterspook said:Okay, folks, I admit it fluorocarbon has beaten me. I haven't found any I really like. I guess from now on I'm only going to use it for leaders. Have any of you come to the same conclusion?
I don't like the stuff either gave up on it as well. I use Yo-zuri hybrid, has closed cell construction and is buoyant netrual both which assist in sensitivity. The refractive index is similar to straight floro, it doesn't stretch any more than floro or mono, has good abrasive resistance. Floro has to many negative that a good copolymer overcomes, it is just to brittle breaks easily, poor knot strength, if you do break off you need to cut behind the break several feet to remove any other "micro" breaks in the line. A kink in floro is as good as a break, if you have a bad back lash with kinks strip the line off and respool. I need to explain what I called a micro break an also the why a kink is so bad in floro, floro has a crystalline construction on the cellular level, kink the line or stretch the line too much and the interior of the line is broken, just the outer shell is holding it together. This property is the main weakness of floro and why it has such bad knot strength and why so many ppl mysteriously break fish off. If you like floro great keep using it, just thought I would expound as to why so many anglers don't. Additionally if I was a pro with a corporate sponsor who is paying me to fish and providing my line I would expound all of its qualities too. Take what a pro tells you about a product with a grain of salt, they are being paid to say what they're saying.
Sam reply :
On 10/10/2013 at 5:12 AM, iabass8 said:nope. sunline sniper/seaguar tatsu. never looked back.
Add Yo-Zuri Ultra to this list.
I change out line so much that it costs me a fortune but I never want to lose a fish to old and damaged line again.
An old rule from the pros was mono for treble hook baits and flouro for all others plus braid for specific situations.
Purchase some Kevin VanDam's Lure and Line Conditioner; wet a spot on a wash cloth; and run your flouro through the wet spot when spooling your reels. You can also spray the line from time to time when spooling.
I also will take the rod and reel setup outside; tie the end of the line to a bird feeder; walk off most of the line on the reel; stretch it five or six times; and then respool running the line through the cloth's wet spot.
Give it a try.
Brian Needham reply :
On 10/23/2013 at 11:42 PM, retiredbosn said:Additionally if I was a pro with a corporate sponsor who is paying me to fish and providing my line I would expound all of its qualities too. Take what a pro tells you about a product with a grain of salt, they are being paid to say what they're saying.
but they ALL use FC most of the time....... NOT mono, NOT braid......if there was something better they would use it.
paid or not, those guys fish for too much money to use anything other than the best available.
Sure they are paid to use seagaur, BPS, Berkley, ect ect....I get that. However, they are not paid to use FC over braid or mono, as they could not afford to use a second rate line TYPE. and that's what we are debating here TYPE not brand.
retiredbosn reply :
On 10/24/2013 at 1:18 AM, Brian Needham said:but they ALL use FC most of the time....... NOT mono, NOT braid......if there was something better they would use it.
paid or not, those guys fish for too much money to use anything other than the best available.
Sure they are paid to use seagaur, BPS, Berkley, ect ect....I get that. However, they are not paid to use FC over braid or mono, as they could not afford to use a second rate line TYPE. and that's what we are debating here TYPE not brand.
I don't think I expressed what I was saying clear enough, yes most all pro's use fluoro, not because it's better, but because they are paid to use it, either through sponsorship of the line they use or through a pro sponsoring the line and getting paid to advertise it. The reason the vast majority use it is because they are paid to, pure and simple no matter what brand it happens to be. It isn't a brand thing, its the most expensive line out there and all company's are paying to promote it so we as the consumer buy it. Think about why you use it, the vast majority of people really think that FC line doesn't stretch, however in test after test FC stretches as much and sometimes more than Mono. Stretching FC weakens it much more than mono, a good way to think about it is that FC is like a chain, stretch a chain and it doesn't recover it weakens. Mono is more like a towing strap, it will stretch but recovers, however repeat the process and it weakens as well. Most of the marketing surrounding FC is outright dishonest, it does not have superior knot strength, it does stretch which weakens it considerably, it has poor shock tensile strength, the invisibility test conducted on the FC are inconclusive some show it no more invisible than mono, but then again I doubt fish see the same way we do so that is a hard one to determine. Where does FC have an advantage only in abrasion and somewhat in sensitivity, but sensitivity is such a subjective area that there is no way to really tell. The abrasion issue can be over come with a premium mono and as sensitive as FC is, for my money there isn't enough increase between FC and Yo-zuri to justify the cost, and it is no where near as sensitive as braid. Tackle tour did two tests on FC compared to Berkley XL, it is a recommended read as it dispels most of the myths about FC. FC is used not because it's the best, its used because irregardless of brand it enjoys the best marketing.
Brian Needham reply :
they are paid to use the BRAND. I will give you that.... they however are not paid to use TYPE. you think AMart is using fc cause he's paid? LOL that dude is more anal about his gear that ANY other 2 guys put together, and if he thought he could catch 1 more fish on braid then he would use braid, regardless of contract.
I understand all about marketing but I think you are missing this one.... we are talking about people that make their living based on how their line performs, NOT the banjo minnow.
I use FC because it is the best line available for what I want it to do.
to say mono can "rebound" after stretch it to defy the laws of physics, also one crimp or kink in mono and its done, ANY old timer will tell you that.
And I will give you, just about any line with a crimp/kink is worthless other than braid.
if all you are going to do it chunk spinnerbaits or something use whatever...... but I highly doubt any accomplished deep jig fisherman is using mono, and most don't use braid either because of line bow.
the knocks on FC is based, more often than not, people who cant tie a knot/cinch a knot properly or use improper #test.
we can always agree to disagree
retiredbosn reply :
Brian what I was saying is that they are paid to use fluro no matter the brand. Shoot the most accomplished highest paid angler are paid either through product placement or money to use everything you see during a tournament, from snacks, drinks, shoes, rods lures etc
Brian Needham reply :
I get what you are saying, I disagree with it when it comes to FC vs mono braid.
If KVD thought winning a 5th, 6th, 7th ect ect Classic could be done on Mono or Braid then he would use mono or braid and BPS would pay him all the same.
AMART is highly particular about his gear, and would change line type before anyone (paid or not) IF he thought he could hold an advantage.
retiredbosn reply :
Definitely agree about Martens I think he does what he wants, and doesn't worry about the sponsorships.
skeletor6 reply :
You guys all are completely missing the point of fluorocarbon and stretch. It is its density that makes it a superior line in many aspects. Wind resistance, abrasion resistance, line bellying, visibility, Sensitivity and the biggest being slack-line sensitivity. Almost every sensitivity dependent technique incorporates slack line at some point in the process. Its by far the most sensitive slack line there is.
People focus far too much on stretch and not on density. Tatsu or fc sniper for me. I don't see how people could not enjoy these lines besides cost.
Brian Needham reply :
skeletor6, I hear ya!! I am a Tatsu guy too.
jignfule reply :
This post is a perfect example of why there are many types of line and so many different manufactures of it. It all comes down to personal preference.
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