Bed Fishing: Friend Or Foe 2024
HoosierHawgs reply :
What are your thoughts on fishing for spawning fish? Is it good or bad for the health of an overall fishery? Do you take precautions when handling bedding fish? All thoughts appreciated.
FloridaFishinFool reply :
I love bass fishing, but taking bass off their beds is not what I would call a good idea if it disrupts their spawn.
I remember years ago when a big bass right around eight to ten pounds was on her bed not ten feet from shore, more like 8 feet away. I could reach out with my rod tip and tap her on her head and she just sat there and took it.
I tossed in a rubber worm slowly dragged it into her bed, watched her pick it up and I set the hook and reeled her in. I let her go, she went right back to her bed, and I did it again a few minutes later and caught her twice in like 5 minutes.
I went away, came back a short while later and tried for a 3rd time to catch her but this time all she did was look at the lure and did not try and pick it up. It was as though she had learned her lesson.
Well so did I. I learned that this was not bass fishing- not for me anyways. I learned that I was disturbing something that should be best left alone. And I have not taken a bass off her bed since.
But that is just my opinion now, and I know a lot of fishermen specifically target bass in this vulnerable condition and can catch some of the biggest bass they ever caught this way, but is it really bass fishing? Some would say yes, and I would say I don't think so any more. I leave them be until after spawn, then its on!
As for handling the fish, we should never touch the body of a bass. Never. Don't touch them, don't drag them in across the land, don't yank them into the boat and let them flap around. Even netting a fish can kill it. Handle them only by the lip of the mouth is how I was taught.
Bass have a thin slimy coating called the mucoprotein coating that is their only natural defense from infection and disease. And if we open that up or wipe it off the fish we could be killing the fish without even knowing it or, thinking about it harming the fish.
Many do handle the fish destroying this thin film on their bodies to snap photos, or other, and then let the fish go and watch it swim away thinking they just released a healthy fish when the truth could be the opposite- as they wipe the slimy mucoprotein coating off their hands and go back to fishing.
By handling that fish they could have just doomed it to die within hours or days of release while we go home thinking we released an otherwise healthy fish.
There are numerous articles and other reports about how to handle the fish without destroying the mucoprotein coating...
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/reducing_bass_mortality.html
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/handling-bass.html
http://www.ncwildlife.org/portals/0/boating/documents/keeping_bass_alive_handbook.pdf
Jar11591 reply :
Not too knowledgable on how the fishery is affected as a whole, but I have noticed when I catch a fish off a bed, I usually find it right back in the nest a few minutes after releasing it.
HoosierHawgs reply :
True true... It's funny, I can't seem to catch spawning fish lol! Biggest thing I heard is never hook a fish in the side of the head. We are fishing, not snagging.On 1/16/2015 at 1:20 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:I love bass fishing, but taking bass off their beds is not what I would call a good idea if it disrupts their spawn.
I remember years ago when a big bass right around eight to ten pounds was on her bed not ten feet from shore, more like 8 feet away. I could reach out with my rod tip and tap her on her head and she just sat there and took it.
I tossed in a rubber worm slowly dragged it into her bed, watched her pick it up and I set the hook and reeled her in. I let her go, she went right back to her bed, and I did it again a few minutes later and caught her twice in like 5 minutes.
I went away, came back a short while later and tried for a 3rd time to catch her but this time all she did was look at the lure and did not try and pick it up. It was as though she had learned her lesson.
Well so did I. I learned that was not bass fishing. I learned that I was disturbing something that should be best left alone. And I have not taking a bass off her bed since.
But that is just me and I know a lot of fishermen specifically target bass in this vulnerable condition and can catch some of the biggest bass they ever caught this way, but is it really bass fishing? Some would say yes, and I would say I don't think so any more. I leave them be until after spawn, then its on!
As for handling the fish, we should never touch the body of a bass. Never. Don't touch them, don't drag them in across the land, don't yank them into the boat and let them flap around.
Bass have a thin slimy coating that is their only defense from infection and disease. And if we open that up or wipe it off the fish we could be killing the fish without even knowing it or thinking about it.
Many handle the fish destroying this thin film on their bodies and then let the fish go and watch it swim away thinking we just released a healthy fish when the truth could be the opposite. By handling that fish we could have just doomed it to die within hours or days of release while we go home thinking we released an otherwise healthy fish.
Dylcook91 reply :
I did it once, the problem I noticed is that the waters here are packed with bluegill/crappie which would swarm the nest once I got the bass off it. Once I return the bass it would go right back and chase them off. I try to stay away from it now cause I don't want to be deminishing their numbers.
Logan S reply :
If you fish at all during spawn season you will certainly catch bed-fish whether you want to or not.
Everyone has to draw their own line on the conservation issue. For me, that line falls between allowing myself to bed-fish and not allowing myself to keep bass for dinner.
Not saying one is right and one is wrong, that's just where I draw the line for myself. Someone else's line might be allowing themselves to fish during the spawn and not allowing themselves to actively target fish on beds.
FloridaFishinFool reply :
I have had state of Florida biologists tell me that catching spawning bass does not really have much of an effect on overall numbers of fish in whatever body of water.
I was told that just one mating pair is enough to populate an entire lake.
And, here in Florida where we have a lot of development, new retention ponds are dug out of dry land and in a matter of months, as they fill up with water, you start to see minnows appear, and in 2 or 3 years you can catch bream and bass in them. How did they get there?
The biologists say that birds are the mostly likely culprit, along with turtles, alligators and other wildlife that move from one water hole to the next carry fish eggs with them to transplant fish into previously barren locations.
So taking some spawning fish does not do a whole lot in terms of diminishing fish numbers from what I am understanding of the situation here in Florida.
HoosierHawgs reply :
Really? Fisheries biologist in Indiana say that it is untrue that birds plat eggs in ponds.. Hmm... May have to look to confirm those.On 1/16/2015 at 1:40 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:I have had state of Florida biologists tell me that catching spawning bass does not really have much of an effect on overall numbers of fish in whatever body of water.
I was told that just one mating pair is enough to populate an entire lake.
And, here in Florida where we have a lot of development, new retention ponds are dug out of dry land and in a matter of months, as they fill up with water, you start to see minnows appear, and in 2 or 3 years you can catch bream and bass in them. How did they get there?
The biologists say that birds are the mostly likely culprit, along with turtles, alligators and other wildlife that move from one water hole to the next carry fish eggs with them to transplant fish into previously barren locations.
So taking some spawning fish does not do a whole lot in terms of diminishing fish numbers from what I am understanding of the situation here in Florida.
A-Jay reply :
As a young angler, seeing those huge Momma bass on the bed was almost more than I could stand.
I just had to try and catch her. Sometimes I did but more often than not, I got a ton of flipping & pitching practice. Those days have long past & I’ve decided that it’s not for me. Since I do not stop fishing during the pre, spawn, & post spawn periods, I do catch fish that are full of eggs but I do not target them on the nest any more. I usually focus my efforts out off the bank looking for staging fish either waiting to go up shallow or may have finished and are post spawn.
As for the effects on a fishery & the ethics of the practice, the debate will rage on probably forever.
A-Jay
FloridaFishinFool reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 1:46 AM, jakob1010 said:Really? Fisheries biologist in Indiana say that it is untrue that birds plat eggs in ponds.. Hmm... May have to look to confirm those.
Well then here develops a good question...
If developers can dig a hole into the earth no where near any other bodies of water, and you see that the brand new hole they are digging is dry as a desert, once it starts filling with water, how do fish get in there so quickly? In just months you can see minnows swimming around in there. And in 2 or 3 years catch bream and bass in them.
What logical method would you say transplants fish into a brand new barren body of water? How do they get in there?
HoosierHawgs reply :
Interesting food for thought.. Will have to do some research on it. Seems like you have a good logical explanation though.On 1/16/2015 at 2:02 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:Well then here develops a good question...
If developers can dig a hole into the earth no where near any other bodies of water, and you see that the brand new hole they are digging is dry as a desert, once it starts filling with water, how do fish get in there so quickly? In just months you can see minnows swimming around in there. And in 2 or 3 years catch bream and bass in them.
What logical method would you say transplants fish into a brand new barren body of water? How do they get in there?
Catt reply :
Generally, a good male that is agressive and active will attract mire than one female to his nest and spawn with each one of them. Along with that, an active female will spawn a number of times and, in most cases, in a number of different males nest. I think that is sort of a hedge ( on the part of the female) against sn infertile male spoiling the hatch of a good fertile female, this insures a higher success rate for that spawn. Ken Cook Oklahoma Fisheries Biologist
It is this sporadic purging of eggs and the ability to spawn with different males on several nest that keep the annual spring bedding season from being severely impacted by large tournaments. Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologist Clarence Bowling says studies have shown that a female (when handled properly) will simply locate a bed and an available male in the area where she is released and complete spawning.
GETTING A LOCK ON THE SPAWN by Tim Tucker
FloridaFishinFool reply :
Some people try to say that the fish eggs can not remain alive and viable on bird's feet because they can dry out, but fish eggs could be inside a bird's mouth or beak, or inside folds in a turtle's body if it crawls across a fish bed it can wedge eggs into folds in its body and remain moist in there for some time as it moves around. Same with alligators even possibly snakes too.
All of these creatures move from one body of water to another.
I can not see any other more likely way for fish to get transplanted into a barren body of water as quickly as they do.
Dylcook91 reply :
This bring up a question I always had. Have studies ever come up with figures regarding average number of fry hatched per nest vs survivability to adulthood where a bass begins not be such a victim to the foodchain say 3+lbs?
A-Jay reply :
Author ~ Dan Ashe
First let’s start with the basics. Nearly everyone has seen largemouth bass in an area that has been swept clean near the shoreline during the spring. These swept areas are bass nests or beds. Spawning takes place when the water temperature reaches 60-75o F. The male constructs the bed and courts a female to spawn, where he then releases his sperm to fertilize the eggs. Fertilized largemouth bass eggs are yellow to orange in color. The male stands guard over the eggs to protect them from predation and continually fans the water to keep water moving over the eggs to keep silt from building up on top of them, while the female leaves once spawning is complete. Largemouth bass sexual maturity is influenced by size more than age, with most bass reaching sexual maturity with the ability to spawn at around ten inches. The largemouth bass in our lakes usually attain this size at about age two. Largemouth bass beds have been reported to contain anywhere from 5,000 to 45,000 eggs with the differences in number dependent on the size and condition of the spawned female. The time it takes largemouth bass eggs to hatch is highly influenced by water temperature with hatch time at 65o F being about 2 ½ days.
Life for young largemouth bass is hard with very few surviving their first year. One paper I have found cited that only two tenths of one percent of young bass made it past their first year in an Alabama lake. There are several factors that are considered important in determining survival, most notably time of spawning, temperature, predation, and available forage and habitat.
Generally speaking, larger bass spawn earlier than smaller bass. This characteristic is important to young bass survival. Fish that hatch sooner have longer to feed and grow before winter sets in and thus a greater chance of over winter survival. There is some debate as to whether bass populations with a large number of big fish have a distinct advantage to maintain a more constant and stable population in terms of steady recruitment. The down side of having an earlier spawning time is that these fish are more vulnerable to extreme temperature fluctuations than those that are spawned later when the likelihood of a spring freeze is less likely. Therefore, the debate goes on. I guess it all depends on what year you want to look at.
Temperature plays the most significant role in early survival of bass, where it can influence entire year classes of bass. As stated earlier temperature determines how long it takes for eggs to hatch, the longer it takes eggs to hatch the likelihood of predation of those eggs increases. In addition, once bass hatch they are not mobile, they are still on the bottom of the bed feeding off a yolk sac. Again, the longer a fish is immobile the chances of predation increases significantly. Water temperature determines how long it takes for the bass larvae to develop and become mobile. At 70o F bass are able to swim in about 10 days after hatch, at colder temperatures this time is significantly longer.
Once the bass fry become free swimming they must begin to feed within days or they will die. Bass fry initially feed on zooplankton (microscopic animals) and the amount of zooplankton is dependant on phytoplankton (microscopic plants). Lakes that are turbid, acidic, etc., generally are not productive in terms of plankton production, with low fish recruitment due to inadequate forage for young fish. Bass fry are voracious feeders needing to feed several times a day. Food passes through their stomachs every few hours. Over time as the bass grow they will shift to a fish diet. It is imperative that ample forage fish be available for both the larger and younger bass. Bass will always eat one another, but if there are other prey species available the amount of cannibalism will be less.
A-Jay
Frog Turds reply :
I avoid targeting bed fish, plenty to catch that aren't on beds. I respect the fishery and it my own personal ethics not target them to allow them to spawn unmolested.
Alpha Male reply :
I dont know what other states rules are but here in minnesota bass opener isnt until 2 weeks after the main species fishing opener and I agree with it. fish like crappie and sunnies are open all year. I dont feel the need to fish for bass until they are done spawning. as soon as the ice is out its time for pan fish until season opener, then its time for walleye and northern pike, until bass opener.
I do not hesitate to eat any of those species, but aside from the sunnies and crappies I like to keep the fish on the smaller size. walleye and bass 1.5 lbs to 2.5ish and northerns from 6-12lbs.
I guess it depends on location but up here in minnesota I feel that all bass fisherman should be a sunnie and crappie fisherman since they prey on bass eggs so much.
stepchild reply :
Here in Ontario, Canada, the season for bass doesn't even open until mid-late June, when the bass are typically done spawning. I guess there's a reason for that and we just have to suck it up until June to get our lines wet....for bass that is.
Walleye and Pike opener is mid-May and trout is mid-late April (when there's likely still ice on certain lakes).
ww2farmer reply :
I do it for a day or two with smallmouth, then, honestly, it gets boring. Largemouth are too finicky on the bed for me. I am sure some of the largemouth I catch in the spring are on beds, but I don't target obvious bedding largemouth unless its a hog.
Catt reply :
Question
If it's unethical to catch em off the bed what do y'all do about catching the female moving from one nest to the next?
Would this not create the same problem?
Sam reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 2:02 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:Well then here develops a good question...
If developers can dig a hole into the earth no where near any other bodies of water, and you see that the brand new hole they are digging is dry as a desert, once it starts filling with water, how do fish get in there so quickly? In just months you can see minnows swimming around in there. And in 2 or 3 years catch bream and bass in them.
What logical method would you say transplants fish into a brand new barren body of water? How do they get in there?
The Boogie Man at midnight.
everythingthatswims reply :
I like to go out during the spawn and fish a couple ponds wearing out the smaller "buck bass" guarding the nests, I release them very quickly and they always go right back to guarding their bed. If I see a big female, I may make a couple casts but I'm not going to sit there for an hour bouncing a bait off her head until she bites. The main thing I use the spawn for is to scout out new water, because it gives you an opportunity to see the big fish.
Bluegiller reply :
Here in NJ it is Catch & Release only for LG & SM from April 15 to June 15 in an effort to protect the spawning population.
Mattlures reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 2:02 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:Well then here develops a good question...
If developers can dig a hole into the earth no where near any other bodies of water, and you see that the brand new hole they are digging is dry as a desert, once it starts filling with water, how do fish get in there so quickly? In just months you can see minnows swimming around in there. And in 2 or 3 years catch bream and bass in them.
What logical method would you say transplants fish into a brand new barren body of water? How do they get in there?
People put the fish in there. First if you just have water with no fish then you can have a bad mosquito problem so whenever a pond is made it is almost always stocked with at least minnows, but usually bluegill and bass to. This is usually done by whoever made the pond. 2nd is guys jut put them in there by bucket. I have done it many times when I was a teenager whenever a new sand pit pond was dug or a new golf course was built. I have seen other doing it to. It happens a lot more then you might think.
TyTheAngler reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 1:46 AM, jakob1010 said:Really? Fisheries biologist in Indiana say that it is untrue that birds plat eggs in ponds.. Hmm... May have to look to confirm those.
I live in florida and have heard the same thing about birds carrying eggs from one body of water to the next
gulfcaptain reply :
I choose to really not target spawning fish. If I happen upon one that is agressive and catch it within say 3 min then cool. But where I fish I see people who never fish those places except when the spawn is on. Why, because they can't catch them any other time of the year. Good thing about fish, the beds you see are a fraction of the fish spawning. There are always beds deeper then we can see and those stay unmolested for the most part. I would rather fish pre and post spawn fish that are available during that time then be that guy that catches the same fish 4 days in a row and brags how good he is when he can't catch fish any other time of the year. Those people really irritate me. Or the guy that happens to see you catch a fish and when you put it back he runs over to try and catch it again. I don't understand, REALLY? Those are the times it's hard to be a peaceful fisherman.
nascar2428 reply :
Here in Michigan for the majority of the state. Bass season opens the last Saturday in April and is catch and release until Memorial weekend. This is to protect the Bass population. Michigan DNR now has scientific evidence from other states disproving this theory plus the fact that the majority of Bass fisherman in the state practice catch and release, they are currently looking into modifying or eliminating a closed season for bass all together. Having said that I absolutely will target spawning areas but not the beds themselves. All of the professional tours have been fishing beds for years without any apparent ill effects on those lakes. I think the harm factor has been greatly reduced with today's catch and release mentality within the Bass fishing community.
geo g reply :
I don't like taking bass off a bed. One person taking a fish may not have much effect on a body of water, but get a tournament in there and 100 anglers and that's another story. Do that at the same time every year and fishing can't help from being effected. Being off the bed for only minutes and the bait fish will move in for a feast. I just can't get myself to target the future of the sport I love, for what a photo! 
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 8:29 AM, Mattlures said:People put the fish in there. First if you just have water with no fish then you can have a bad mosquito problem so whenever a pond is made it is almost always stocked with at least minnows, but usually bluegill and bass to. This is usually done by whoever made the pond. 2nd is guys jut put them in there by bucket. I have done it many times when I was a teenager whenever a new sand pit pond was dug or a new golf course was built. I have seen other doing it to. It happens a lot more then you might think.
There is some truth to this in Florida, the FWC does stock bass in some of these community man made ponds. Some ponds are connected to canals and get populated with fish from swimming in.
Where I fish in Florida I seldom see any one else fishing, there are tons of bass here. I don't think bed fishing is going to affect the overall fishery at all where I'm at. I don't do it myself but if one chooses to do so in these low pressure areas, I don't have a problem with it.
However I do bed fish for peacocks, these are low pressure ares and the peas always come back to the bed.
OntarioFishingGuy reply :
I stay away from it for the most part. Most of my local lakes don't have a very good LMB population anyways, so I try to do everything I can to reserve what little quality bass fishing Toronto has left. I tend to target rainbows during the spring anyways.
Dave Jakes reply :
I live by the golden rule: Don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself.
Now, I know the reproduction process is a bit different for fish, but I wouldn't want someone yanking me off my bed by the mouth while I'm "spawning".
mjseverson24 reply :
I don't target spawning fish at all, I am sure I catch a few spawners each year unknowingly, but ignorance is bliss in those cases. My intent is to avoid spawning fish, but when you flip a jig under a dock, or by a tree/stump, or pocket in the weeds and the fish are in spawn mode you will most likely get a few in the act on accident... During tournaments I typically fish deeper than a normal bed would be located, so I should be pretty sure of not disturbing the spawn...
Mitch
scaleface reply :
I dont think fishing for spawning bass hurts a bit , but Ive been wrong before. A lake will only hold so many adult bass, An astronomical number of fry are hatched each year. I doubt anglers fishing for spawning bass will effect the number of fry reaching several inches. Thats Mother Natures way of assuring a healthy population.What is much more important is natural events that can have great impact on a years spawn , like floods .
One of my most memorable days of fishing ever , I was targeting schools of fry with a jelly worm and catching 2 to 3 lb bass all day.
tatertester reply :
I don't go on a rant about fishing beds, BUT, somehow, seems to be not a right thing to do.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/16/2015 at 5:50 AM, Catt said:Question
If it's unethical to catch em off the bed what do y'all do about catching the female moving from one nest to the next?
Would this not create the same problem?
Seems your question can't be answered.
Perhaps too many people see bed fishing as being little different than tossing a lure into the manger with Mary & Joseph.
Probably the #1 reason no one goes to the BR Road Trips for fear of catching fish off a shiny spot!
Catt reply :
On 1/18/2015 at 7:23 PM, Lund Explorer said:Seems your question can't be answered.
Perhaps too many people see bed fishing as being little different than tossing a lure into the manger with Mary & Joseph.
Probably the #1 reason no one goes to the BR Road Trips for fear of catching fish off a shiny spot!
Oh it can be answered, it'll burst thier bubble of bed fishing cause the effect is the same!
There is tons of research proving bed fishing does not hurt the spawn.
greentrout reply :
I consider it unethical to fish for bass on their spawning beds. They are locked into their nests; they will not leave unless driven off by a larger predator (usually man or a drastic, sudden change in water temperature). A big bass is highly vulnerable while spawning. Often spawners are easily seen...and easily taken. I've seen fishermen throw heavy lines rigged with grab hooks to snag big females on their spawning beds. While most would never resort to a such a lowly method of gathering a trophy, many believe it's okay to catch bass on their beds with artificial lures or live bait. I'm a fisherman and a researcher, not a preacher. All I can say is that once you really get to know the bass, bed fishing simply becomes out of the question.
The Bass Professor -- Doug Hannon
Old school basser
bassindon reply :
No bed fishing here anymore. I do better not bed fishing
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/18/2015 at 11:16 PM, Catt said:Oh it can be answered, it'll burst thier bubble of bed fishing cause the effect is the same!
There is tons of research proving bed fishing does not hurt the spawn.
Unfortunately, we have a generation or two that have decided to adopt the same philosophy that PETA expounds.
When it becomes "unethical" to catch a fish at one time of the year, how can they be that far away from the argument that it is wrong to catch that same fish anytime of the year. It always amazes me when I read someone professing to fishing during the spawn, not targeting spawning fish, and then admitting to "accidently" catching them off their beds.
Perhaps they should just stay off the water. Maybe they should lobby their state to adopt the closed seasons that a few northern states have. I would hope that these people all refuse to support all of the major tournament organizations that hold contests during the spawn. They should refuse to purchase any bait that is touted as "good for tossing on a bed". Of course that is all overblown and ridiculous.
The holier than thou crowd enjoys the easiest fishing of the entire year just as much as the lowly bed snatcher. They just can't admit it!
scaleface reply :
I find bed fishing challenging. More times than not I dont catch the fish.
They will spawn on top of stumps in a nearby lake. Sometimes I will spot the wakes as they chase away smaller fish. I never have caught one of those fish.
gulfcaptain reply :
On 1/19/2015 at 4:55 PM, Lund Explorer said:Unfortunately, we have a generation or two that have decided to adopt the same philosophy that PETA expounds.
When it becomes "unethical" to catch a fish at one time of the year, how can they be that far away from the argument that it is wrong to catch that same fish anytime of the year. It always amazes me when I read someone professing to fishing during the spawn, not targeting spawning fish, and then admitting to "accidently" catching them off their beds.
Perhaps they should just stay off the water. Maybe they should lobby their state to adopt the closed seasons that a few northern states have. I would hope that these people all refuse to support all of the major tournament organizations that hold contests during the spawn. They should refuse to purchase any bait that is touted as "good for tossing on a bed". Of course that is all overblown and ridiculous.
The holier than thou crowd enjoys the easiest fishing of the entire year just as much as the lowly bed snatcher. They just can't admit it!
You catch a few great. Am I going to spend hrs trying to catch one fish....No. If I catch one bass off a bed am I going to catch that fish each day for the next week just because I know where he/she is. No. We all will happen to catch a bedding fish here and there. I don't target them, but if they want to bite in that first 3 min hey why not. But then I'm done with that fish and will not harrass it again. But there are other fish to be caught that are pre-spawn and just as heavy to be had at that time as well.
corn-on-the-rob reply :
I will catch some off beds and not feel bad about it, I just rarely do it because I don't particularly enjoy bed or sight fishing much.
Wayne P. reply :
If you base your position on facts instead of "thinking" and "feeling", that should determine your participation.
HoosierHawgs reply :
What are the 'facts'? Not meant in offense, just a clarifying question.On 1/20/2015 at 7:53 AM, Wayne P. said:If you base your position on facts instead of "thinking" and "feeling", that should determine your participation.
Wayne P. reply :
On 1/20/2015 at 9:41 AM, jakob1010 said:What are the 'facts'? Not meant in offense, just a clarifying question.
They have been posted a few times in this thread. I don't have to repeat them.
You figure it out.
cyclops2 reply :
Add in Gobis & not a egg or yolk sac is left. Several lie just out of attack range. I caught a nesting bass. As soon a it was past the attacking distance 8 to 10 Gobi raced in & munched as fast as possible. By the time I Unhooked & released the bass the Gobi cleaned out the nest. The bass darted around. Then sat on the edge of the nest. I can now make out the Gobi even when 1/2 buried around the nests.
The real killer up north is V H S disease. Kills everything. The fish look like a lamprey had attached & released from them. Difference. ALL the scales are in place. But there is a very red sore in the flesh. Lots of fish are long & skinny. Another sign. Viral Hemmoragic Septicemia ? It just is devastating in some slow moving areas.
HoosierHawgs reply :
I don't fish any goby water, but can see how it would be a problem.On 1/20/2015 at 10:10 AM, cyclops2 said:Add in Gobis & not a egg or yolk sac is left. Several lie just out of attack range. I caught a nesting bass. As soon a it was past the attacking distance 8 to 10 Gobi raced in & munched as fast as possible. By the time I Unhooked & released the bass the Gobi cleaned out the nest. The bass darted around. Then sat on the edge of the nest. I can now make out the Gobi even when 1/2 buried around the nests.
The real killer up north is V H S disease. Kills everything. The fish look like a lamprey had attached & released from them. Difference. ALL the scales are in place. But there is a very red sore in the flesh. Lots of fish are long & skinny. Another sign. Viral Hemmoragic Septicemia ? It just is devastating in some slow moving areas.
Catt reply :
Y'all do know the female does not stay on the nest!
gulfcaptain reply :
On 1/20/2015 at 10:45 AM, Catt said:Y'all do know the female does not stay on the nest!
Let us hope so. Bet they don't know she will spawn several times during the spring as well with different males on beds.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/20/2015 at 1:30 AM, gulfcaptain said:You catch a few great. Am I going to spend hrs trying to catch one fish....No. If I catch one bass off a bed am I going to catch that fish each day for the next week just because I know where he/she is. No. We all will happen to catch a bedding fish here and there. I don't target them, but if they want to bite in that first 3 min hey why not. But then I'm done with that fish and will not harrass it again. But there are other fish to be caught that are pre-spawn and just as heavy to be had at that time as well.
The hi-lited portion of your post is somewhat confusing. It almost sounds like there is a time limit allowed to fish a bed before it becomes an issue. To be fair, can you expand on that thought?
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/20/2015 at 9:55 AM, Wayne P. said:They have been posted a few times in this thread. I don't have to repeat them.
You figure it out.
IMHO, when you get someone that asks you to clarify a post, you are better off doing so. By asking someone to "figure it out" themselves, there is too much chance for an incorrect conclusion.
If you know what the bear did in the buckwheat, take them out there and point to the truth!
TyTheAngler reply :
Since bed fishing is the topic at hand. check out this clip of me catching a bass of her bed. EASY AS PIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrwS-XwlN4&feature=youtu.be
Chris186 reply :
I fish druing the spawn, but I dont target bass on beds. Its not really my thing. Guys do it, and thats fine. For me personally, I have a problem with it when it comes to tournaments. Now, my analogy might sound crazy, but here it is anyway. I think of bed fishing in touneys like this: I wouldnt want someone kidnapping my 8 month pregnant wife, throwing her in a dark van, driving around with her for 7 hours and letting her go miles away from her bed, completely unaware of where she is. May sound completely crazy, but I dont care. Its essentially the same thing.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 6:35 AM, CD1542 said:I fish druing the spawn, but I dont target bass on beds. Its not really my thing. Guys do it, and thats fine. For me personally, I have a problem with it when it comes to tournaments. Now, my analogy might sound crazy, but here it is anyway. I think of bed fishing in touneys like this: I wouldnt want someone kidnapping my 8 month pregnant wife, throwing her in a dark van, driving around with her for 7 hours and letting her go miles away from her bed, completely unaware of where she is. May sound completely crazy, but I dont care. Its essentially the same thing.
So how do you feel when a tournament fisherman pulls Mama from her babies two months after the spawn and keeps her hostage for the day before releasing her miles away from her family? What about when some "bucket fisherman" murders her?
It's almost too bad that Bambi was a deer and not a bass!
Anthropomorphism:
an·thro·po·mor·phism n. Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.
Chris186 reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 6:35 PM, Lund Explorer said:So how do you feel when a tournament fisherman pulls Mama from her babies two months after the spawn and keeps her hostage for the day before releasing her miles away from her family? What about when some "bucket fisherman" murders her?
It's almost too bad that Bambi was a deer and not a bass!
Anthropomorphism:
an·thro·po·mor·phism n. Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.
I think you need to do some research on what happens when the bass spawn if you think that "mama" hangs around with her "babies" 2 months after they hatch. 
HoosierHawgs reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 11:26 PM, CD1542 said:I think you need to do some research on what happens when the bass spawn if you think that "mama" hangs around with her "babies" 2 months after they hatch.
I believe he was likening it to a real life situation... Similar to yours, which I think both are sound logic, and an interesting discussion for sure. I believe his situation was meant to be hypothetical... Even if it is not 100% realistic.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 11:26 PM, CD1542 said:I think you need to do some research on what happens when the bass spawn if you think that "mama" hangs around with her "babies" 2 months after they hatch.
You're going to try to compare a female bass on a bed to your pregnant wife, lament her being "kidnapped", plus all of the other ........
And then you take my completely tongue in cheek reply and suggest that I do some research?
Wow! Care to tell us how much it costs you to belong to PETA, ASPCA, & HSUS?
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 11:38 PM, jakob1010 said:I believe he was likening it to a real life situation... Similar to yours, which I think both are sound logic, and an interesting discussion for sure. I believe his situation was meant to be hypothetical... Even if it is not 100% realistic.
I was likening it to the fantasy land he obviously lives in. It's going to come as a rude shock to some that Bambi really doesn't speak English, or that a spider named Charlotte doesn't really speak to a pig.
Chris186 reply :
On 1/30/2015 at 2:54 AM, Lund Explorer said:You're going to try to compare a female bass on a bed to your pregnant wife, lament her being "kidnapped", plus all of the other ........
And then you take my completely tongue in cheek reply and suggest that I do some research?
Wow! Care to tell us how much it costs you to belong to PETA, ASPCA, & HSUS
First, I told you it may sound crazy, but I dont care. I just expressed my opinion on the subject, like the OP asked.
Second, your reply didnt come off " tounge in cheek" to me.
Im not going to have a battle of witts against an unarmed man.
Alonerankin2 reply :
Bunch of PETA morons came to brown county, ind. in the early 90's running around in a vastly overpopulated (deer ) state park, during a state sanctioned hunt... Running around with deer antlers attached to their heads, claiming, they hoped they would be shot.. Attempting to spook the woods, so deers would run away... Yup, ran those animals right to standing hunters, nothing like pushing deer, eh? No one was injured, several were arrested though, lol...
Z71Bassin reply :
I love bed fishing. That is all.
RoLo reply :
Biologists maintain that most cow bass spend 'hours' rather than days, on any one nest.
Furthermore, one cow will typically deposit eggs in the nests of several buck bass,
you might say, she's a runaround who plays the field 
A cow on the bed is neither hungry nor aggressive, and a lure placed in the nest will normally be seized by the buck.
Yeah she's visible, but she's also more uncatchable now, than any other time of year (the genius of Mother Nature).
Recall that Mac Weakley spent hours trying to get Dottie to strike once, but failed (foul-hooking is something else).
Happily, there's a generous overlap in the pre-spawn and spawn seasons,
and most trophy-class bass that are taken during the spawning season are bass in pre-spawn mode.
Roger
K_Mac reply :
On 1/29/2015 at 6:35 AM, CD1542 said:I fish druing the spawn, but I dont target bass on beds. Its not really my thing. Guys do it, and thats fine. For me personally, I have a problem with it when it comes to tournaments. Now, my analogy might sound crazy, but here it is anyway. I think of bed fishing in touneys like this: I wouldnt want someone kidnapping my 8 month pregnant wife, throwing her in a dark van, driving around with her for 7 hours and letting her go miles away from her bed, completely unaware of where she is. May sound completely crazy, but I dont care. Its essentially the same thing.
It is difficult to understand how you can engage in fishing at all if hauling fish around in a live well troubles you so. Fishing is a blood sport. We do it for our pleasure, knowing that some fish will die in the process. When I compare your argument to Lund Explorer's the evidence does not support your claim of superior wit. This topic will always stir emotion. No need to be nasty about it.
Chris186 reply :
On 1/30/2015 at 9:33 AM, K_Mac said:It is difficult to understand how you can engage in fishing at all if hauling fish around in a live well troubles you so. Fishing is a blood sport. We do it for our pleasure, knowing that some fish will die in the process. When I compare your argument to Lund Explorer's the evidence does not support your claim of superior wit. This topic will always stir emotion. No need to be nasty about it.
Its not hauling around just any fish, its hauling around a fish that is trying to spawn. Thats why I dont fish tournaments during the spawn.
As for Lund Explorer, he fired first. Infact, all he has done in this thread is quote people and bash them. But, its the internet, and we all know how that goes.
Catt reply :
On 1/30/2015 at 10:40 AM, CD1542 said:Its not hauling around just any fish, its hauling around a fish that is trying to spawn. Thats why I dont fish tournaments during the spawn.
As for Lund Explorer, he fired first. Infact, all he has done in this thread is quote people and bash them. But, its the internet, and we all know how that goes.
So you just ignore the scientific evidence that proves your theory wrong?
SirSnookalot reply :
I treat my wife pretty much the same as I do a bass or any other fish. One of the true pleasures of my life is sticking a hook in her mouth and ski dragging her back to the boat. Who says marriage isn't a blood sport, it's PETA approved.
Chris186 reply :
On 1/30/2015 at 12:07 PM, Catt said:So you just ignore the scientific evidence that proves your theory wrong?
What theory might this be? All I did was give my opinion on bed fishing, and got attacked for it. I never said bed fishing hurt the spawn in any way. Never said it had any affect on the bass population. I just personally dont think its right to purposely catch a fish trying to lay eggs, then throw her in your livewell only to let her go miles away from where she was trying to spawn. Obviously, everyones opinions are different, but you know what they say-opinons are like a-holes, everybody has one and some people are one.
Catt reply :
On 1/30/2015 at 11:13 PM, CD1542 said:What theory might this be? All I did was give my opinion on bed fishing, and got attacked for it by one guy, and now by you. I never said bed fishing hurt the spawn in any way. Never said it had any affect on the bass population. I just personally dont think its right to purposely catch a fish trying to lay eggs, then throw her in your livewell only to let her go miles away from where she was trying to spawn. Obviously, everyones opinions are different, but you know what they say-opinons are like a-holes, everybody has one and some people are one.
I aint attacked no one!
I asked a question?
You answered it above...have nice day 
Chris186 reply :
CD1542, on 30 Jan 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:
On 1/30/2015 at 11:13 PM, CD1542 said:What theory might this be? All I did was give my opinion on bed fishing, and got attacked for it. I never said bed fishing hurt the spawn in any way. Never said it had any affect on the bass population. I just personally dont think its right to purposely catch a fish trying to lay eggs, then throw her in your livewell only to let her go miles away from where she was trying to spawn. Obviously, everyones opinions are different, but you know what they say-opinons are like a-holes, everybody has one and some people are one.
QuoteI aint attacked no one!
I asked a question?
You answered it above...have nice day
You are right, and I apologize. I guess im still in defensive mode.
I fixed it for you 
HoosierHawgs reply :
Lets play nice. I think this is a good healthy discussion on something I'd never thought about before.
Suspendingjerk reply :
I am actually surprised by all the responses claiming it's 'wrong' or they 'feel' wrong bedfishing.
As someone above said, fishing is a blood sport. As is hunting.
I personally enjoy bedfishing and take full advantage of it when the spawn comes around... And don't lose a wink of sleep once the day is over.
HoosierHawgs reply :
Can you clarify what you mean by 'blood sport'? I'm not a huge hunter, just because I haven't found any good area around me for it, which I'll have to look into if there is any new public land around.. Just another reason i want my land/pond already!!!On 1/31/2015 at 7:36 AM, Suspendingjerk said:I am actually surprised by all the responses claiming it's 'wrong' or they 'feel' wrong bedfishing.
As someone above said, fishing is a blood sport. As is hunting.
I personally enjoy bedfishing and take full advantage of it when the spawn comes around... And don't lose a wink of sleep once the day is over.
Suspendingjerk reply :
You participate knowing good and well that the results of your actions fishing can and will cause the death of fish.On 1/31/2015 at 9:08 AM, jakob1010 said:Can you clarify what you mean by 'blood sport'? I'm not a huge hunter, just because I haven't found any good area around me for it, which I'll have to look into if there is any new public land around.. Just another reason i want my land/pond already!!!
Although I do everything in my power to prevent it.
mjseverson24 reply :
I disagree completely that fishing is a blood sport... I practice catch and release on all fish that I catch... when i am in tournaments I go the extra mile to ensure I can release the fish in the best possible shape... fish care is held paramount to me when I go fishing...
Mitch
SirSnookalot reply :
Fishing for sport whether it's immediate catch and release or hours later if in tournament, the act of hooking them probably does put stress on them. It isn't natural for the fish to be on the end of a line, that's our sport. I've seen very few bass go belly up (gut hooked for sure) in a normal fight, yet I don't know what happens to all of them once they swim off 100% of the time. I do think it's a blood sport, all the care in the world does not insure a longer life for them. Fishing is enjoyment for us, I'm not sure how much the fish enjoys it.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 11:44 AM, mjseverson24 said:I disagree completely that fishing is a blood sport... I practice catch and release on all fish that I catch... when i am in tournaments I go the extra mile to ensure I can release the fish in the best possible shape... fish care is held paramount to me when I go fishing...
Mitch
I can understand your desire to distance yourself from the term, but the fact remains that when you consider all of the bass fishermen involved in bass fishing, it is indeed a Blood Sport. Even with all of the protections you try to provide, no one can insure 100% survivability.
HoosierHawgs reply :
Even with you Livewell treatments, and other Precautions, its been scientifically tested by InFisherman. That tournament live well fish have a delayed mortality (5 days later) upwards of 50%On 1/31/2015 at 11:44 AM, mjseverson24 said:I disagree completely that fishing is a blood sport... I practice catch and release on all fish that I catch... when i am in tournaments I go the extra mile to ensure I can release the fish in the best possible shape... fish care is held paramount to me when I go fishing...
Mitch
Catt reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 8:25 PM, jakob1010 said:Even with you Livewell treatments, and other Precautions, its been scientifically tested by InFisherman. That tournament live well fish have a delayed mortality (5 days later) upwards of 50%
And Texas Parks & Wildlife tracks every tournament every year and they show single digits
HoosierHawgs reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 9:10 PM, Catt said:And Texas Parks & Wildlife tracks every tournament every year and they show single digits
What do you mean? Single digit mortality rates?
Catt reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 10:10 PM, jakob1010 said:What do you mean? Single digit mortality rates?
Yelp
TP&W track tournaments results, double digit bass, mortatilty rates, & effects on bedding bass.
The Toyoto ShareLunker Program, established in 1986 to promote proper handling of 10 pound plus bass, catch & release of 10 pound plus bass, & to selective breed trophy (13# +) largemouth bass.
HoosierHawgs reply :
Interesting.. I have heard of the ShareALunker Program before. Is it initial or delayed mortality rates?On 1/31/2015 at 10:38 PM, Catt said:Yelp
TP&W track tournaments results, double digit bass, mortatilty rates, & effects on bedding bass.
The Toyoto ShareLunker Program, established in 1986 to promote proper handling of 10 pound plus bass, catch & release of 10 pound plus bass, & to selective breed trophy (13# +) largemouth bass.
Catt reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 11:13 PM, jakob1010 said:Interesting.. I have heard of the ShareALunker Program before. Is it initial or delayed mortality rates?
Both
Y'all seriously need to research updated infomation on this subject.
K_Mac reply :
Catt your data may be correct, although there are many other studies showing much higher mortality rates. What is absolutely unquestionable is that some fish will die as a result of sport fishing. Those of us who fish a lot and catch a disproportionate number of bass compared to average fishermen, have accept that no matter how careful we are returning fish to the water unharmed, some fish will die as a result of our actions. It is not a rare anomaly; it is a predictable and unavoidable part of fishing.
I do believe that catch and release, done properly, is vital to maintaining healthy fishing systems. I am not convinced that sight fishing for spawning females has any more consequences than other accepted practices.
Catt reply :
Right on K_Mac
There is a percentage that will die regardless of when it is caught.
We as angles need to minimize that percentage through education in proper handling techniques.
mjseverson24 reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 8:21 PM, Lund Explorer said:I can understand your desire to distance yourself from the term, but the fact remains that when you consider all of the bass fishermen involved in bass fishing, it is indeed a Blood Sport. Even with all of the protections you try to provide, no one can insure 100% survivability.
we can never insure 100% survivability in any activity that we do as humans, there are always probabilities that bad things can happen. such as golf being struck by lightning or by a stray ball, or basketball and football getting killed due to an injury obtained while on the court or field. Do I think that all of my fish survive after a tournament??? No and I feel bad about that. that is why supporting the DNR programs that help maintain healthy ecosystems is an important part of being a fisherman...
Mitch
mjseverson24 reply :
On 1/31/2015 at 8:25 PM, jakob1010 said:Even with you Livewell treatments, and other Precautions, its been scientifically tested by InFisherman. That tournament live well fish have a delayed mortality (5 days later) upwards of 50%
What??? i think i know what you are talking about, the texas study on tournament fish... well that is texas, not MN. where i live the conditions are quite different. i believe the study showed water temperature is the key feature in mortality rating (along with O2 content). MN water temps are quite a bit lower on average than Tx lakes and rivers. also having a smaller limit which is likely to occur in MN will help in mortality rates.
Mitch
corn-on-the-rob reply :
In my opinion I think this comes down to an issue of perceived impact vs actual impact. If I am not mistaken, the 5 bass limit that is enforced on most fisheries is implemented based on data from population models.
Hypothetically, lets say I went out last year then caught and harvested (kept and ate) 5 bass all year, or 10, or 30, or 50. There is a good chance that regardless of whether I harvested 0 or 50 yearly the population model would be unchanged or if it had changed, it would be hard to correlate my harvesting to the actual change.
I remove a female from a bed, she dies, whoops. Another female swoops in on that nest and deposited into 4 nests instead of 3 because there was another available.
I harvested 100 bass, more fry survive on the next spawn.
We have a BR tournament we remove 200 bass from beds, meanwhile 10,000 other bass are still on their beds untouched.
Nature has a way of course correcting and as long as something isn't extremely excessive, the actual impact is likely negligible.
Now that that has been said, removing 200 bass from beds with only 400 bass in the lake, sure you might encounter a problem.
hawghound reply :
I don't have any facts about it's effect, but I choose not to fish beds. I admit I have done it but It didn't seem much like sport to me. It also seems logical to me that pulling a fish off her nest will add more stress on a fish that is about to undergo major stress in the process of laying eggs. To take it one step further, I would like to see tournaments banned during spawn. Just sayin'.
tatertester reply :
I agree you 100% Hawg......Bass fishing , no matter the lake or river, is a sport , a challenge as it is. Where is the bite today?,shallow weed cover?, the first breakline? or maybe the out side weed edge?.....What technique will work?, topwater, crankbaits, spinnerbaits, plastics?.......Nah , lets just go fish the beds where the fish are sitting ducks and won't run away.....What a challenge! ,and, some statistics say we are not hurting the fishery....Good enuff reason to me to hold my head high while I drag as many off those beds as I can.....Did you see the size of that one?..........Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary.
Logan S reply :
On 2/2/2015 at 9:36 AM, tatertester said:Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary.
No one is forcing you to do it, so don't. Lot of people looking down their nose on other fisherman for practicing a method that is 100% legal. Having an opinion is fine, but trying to force it on others isn't a polite thing to do 
.
I put a lot more faith in DNR biologists doing their job then I do on some fisherman's feelings....In other words, I trust that if it were truly a threat to the fishery the DNR would impose limitations. BTW, some states actually do this for certain waters. We have certain areas on the Potomac that are completely off-limits to fishing (even C&R is prohibited) during spawning season.
In my opinion/experience, those who say it's too easy typically don't have much real experience actually doing it. SOME fish can be easy to catch, but far more prove to be very difficult to catch...Especially the bigger ones. I have won and placed in tournaments by exclusively sight fishing and can tell you it's not an easy feat by any stretch....
If you say it's not sporting to sight fish...Do you also not cast to cruising fish should you see them? Do you not cast to breaking fish? If you see a fish break/boil while fishing something else do you not make a cast in the general direction? I mean, you can see them so it's not sporting right?
K_Mac reply :
Tatertester the big girls are always going to be more vulnerable during the spawn. If I know the staging areas where they move up to feed before spawning and hammer them there, is that "unsavory"? If I pound spawning flats in water too stained to sight fish have I violated your code? Maybe fishing at all in the spring is simply too distasteful? We all know that mortality rates go way up during hot weather. Maybe fishing in the heat of summer is unpalatable?
My point is, if it is legal and doesn't hurt the fishery it's all good.
Alonerankin2 reply :
It ain't much different catching females staging right before they move on the beds. I prefer catching them that way! They eat baits better... I have bed fish as well, I've spent hours on a fish.. It's anything but easy, I don't believe it hurts or is immoral.
SirSnookalot reply :
I don't find casting to one spot over and over to catch a fish is easy, it can take a lot time. I don't care to do it, the reasons of morality don't enter into it, I enjoy my fishing using different tactics.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 2/2/2015 at 9:36 AM, tatertester said:I agree you 100% Hawg......Bass fishing , no matter the lake or river, is a sport , a challenge as it is. Where is the bite today?,shallow weed cover?, the first breakline? or maybe the out side weed edge?.....What technique will work?, topwater, crankbaits, spinnerbaits, plastics?.......Nah , lets just go fish the beds where the fish are sitting ducks and won't run away.....What a challenge! ,and, some statistics say we are not hurting the fishery....Good enuff reason to me to hold my head high while I drag as many off those beds as I can.....Did you see the size of that one?..........Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary.
Speaking of challenges, maybe we should consider the need for 60lb braided line to drag in a 5lb fish. What about the use of (gasp) live bait. I won't fault anyone who finds that fishing beds as being not enough of a challenge for themselves, but I will point out the humor in trying to shame others to adopt that same point of view. No one person knows exactly how everyone else should enjoy the sport.
There is one gentleman who is a member that has posted pictures of some truly impressive fish here, and I know many of those fish were caught using several nightcrawlers stuck on the same hook and thrown on a bed. I'm sure he isn't alone with a PB that was caught using a method others look down their noses at.
I guess the only way to proceed is to go all the way down that slippery slope to where we don't celebrate anyone else's accomplishments, or to accept the fact that not everyone marches to your chosen drummer!
HoosierHawgs reply :
I really don't find anything wrong with fishing live bait. As long as you aren't dumping your unused bait ir containers in or around the water, I'm ok. I just fish with lures mostly, because that's what I enjoy, but I know that my uncle has caught his personal best, and many other great fish on Rodman with a live shiner, and i don't find a problem with it. Honestly, I actually enjoy it as well.On 2/2/2015 at 6:33 PM, Lund Explorer said:Speaking of challenges, maybe we should consider the need for 60lb braided line to drag in a 5lb fish. What about the use of (gasp) live bait. I won't fault anyone who finds that fishing beds as being not enough of a challenge for themselves, but I will point out the humor in trying to shame others to adopt that same point of view. No one person knows exactly how everyone else should enjoy the sport.
There is one gentleman who is a member that has posted pictures of some truly impressive fish here, and I know many of those fish were caught using several nightcrawlers stuck on the same hook and thrown on a bed. I'm sure he isn't alone with a PB that was caught using a method others look down their noses at.
I guess the only way to proceed is to go all the way down that slippery slope to where we don't celebrate anyone else's accomplishments, or to accept the fact that not everyone marches to your chosen drummer!
Suspendingjerk reply :
On 2/2/2015 at 8:50 AM, hawghound said:I don't have any facts about it's effect, but I choose not to fish beds. I admit I have done it but It didn't seem much like sport to me. It also seems logical to me that pulling a fish off her nest will add more stress on a fish that is about to undergo major stress in the process of laying eggs. To take it one step further, I would like to see tournaments banned during spawn. Just sayin'.
It's as much sport as fishing any other spot/pattern.
I agree with someone above me who said that those of you who say it's not much sport have not had much experience in doing it. It seems you all believe the fish bite whatever you throw onto the nest without hesitation. Which isn't true.
Furthermore, bed fishing is fishing a pattern like you would other times of the year. Dog days of summer? Move deep and fish ledges. Pre spawn? Fish staging areas. Spawn? Fish beds.
RSM789 reply :
On 2/2/2015 at 10:30 AM, Stratos20SS said:...If you say it's not sporting to sight fish...Do you also not cast to cruising fish should you see them? Do you not cast to breaking fish? If you see a fish break/boil while fishing something else do you not make a cast in the general direction? I mean, you can see them so it's not sporting right?
I don't believe that is a valid comparison.
A spawning fish will stay on or return to a bed even if it sees an angler on a boat casting towards it. During spawning, there is a biological urge to do something it wouldn't normally do (stay in a location even though it has identified a potential threat) the rest of the year.
Cruising, breaking or boiling fish will not react the same way. If cruising fish spot you, they scatter and will not automatically return the same area minutes later. Get to close to boiling fish, the school will sound and maybe even disperse.
I'm not saying this to discourage anyone from bed fishing, but at the same time, don't deceive yourself that bass during the spawn aren't more vulnerable.
scaleface reply :
I think post spawn fish are more vulnerable than spawning fish , which I find difficult to catch. My best days have been running points after the spawn .
RSM789 reply :
If you get as close to a post spawn fish as many do to bedding fish, his natural reaction will be to swim away. Bedding fish are locked into staying in an area, a trait that does not occur the rest of the year.
Catt reply :
The female does not stay on the nest long before she moves to another nest, & then post spawn.
The male stays on the nest through out the spawn
hawghound reply :
The question for me is not will it hurt the production of the fry but how it affects the adult on the nest. She is already stressed, and more stress has to affect her health, doesn't it?
And for the record, I DO NOT fish during the spawn. As I said earlier, I have done it. One year a buddy of mine introduced the idea to me. Yes, it was fun at first. But I tell ya, every time we threw a bait in front of those fish they grabbed em. EVERY TIME! Just wasn't sport to me.
Yes, you can defend your opinion by calling it just another pattern, but I for one, will not be there.
Someone suggested lobbying your state to ban fishing during spawn, I'm okay with that. And yes, we should refuse to buy from any company, or support any organization, that openly supports things we don't agree with.
I'm not a preacher either, but we all have a right to our opinions. I can't help it if some of you are wrong. (meant to be funny).
Catt reply :
Seriously y'all need to read the research, every problem y'all are bringing up is shot down.
If y'all don't like it that's fine but it is attached to nothing but feelings not fact.
RSM789 reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 7:46 AM, Catt said:The female does not stay on the nest long before she moves to another nest, & then post spawn.
The male stays on the nest through out the spawn
Correct. However, when the female is on a nest, she will stay there or return shortly after being spooked away by an angler. My point was that during the spawn is the only time that bass will do this, continue to stay or return to an area after being aware that an angler (predator) is present.
This doesn't make bed fishing inherently bad, it just illustrates the difference between it and how bass react the rest of the year. To attempt to defend bed fishing as just another pattern or compare it to other times of the year is incorrect because this is the only time that bass survival instincts get overruled by other biology (spawning instinct). The rest of the year, survival is the top priority.
Catt reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 11:25 AM, RSM789 said:Correct. However, when the female is on a nest, she will stay there or return shortly after being spooked away by an angler. My point was that during the spawn is the only time that bass will do this, continue to stay or return to an area after being aware that an angler (predator) is present.
This doesn't make bed fishing inherently bad, it just illustrates the difference between it and how bass react the rest of the year. To attempt to defend bed fishing as just another pattern or compare it to other times of the year is incorrect because this is the only time that bass survival instincts get overruled by other biology (spawning instinct). The rest of the year, survival is the top priority.
So you just ignore the proven fact that bed fishing DOES NOT impact the spawn?
RSM789 reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 12:06 PM, Catt said:So you just ignore the proven fact that bed fishing DOES NOT impact the spawn?
Now exactly where did I write that I thought bed fishing impacted the spawn? Please be specific because I can't find the post where I wrote that.
Catt reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 12:29 PM, RSM789 said:Now exactly where did I write that I thought bed fishing impacted the spawn? Please be specific because I can't find the post where I wrote that.
So what's you point?
You are against bed fishing just because?
Read your answers again, cause you are coming across as someone who thinks it impacts some thing!
Lund Explorer reply :
On 2/2/2015 at 9:04 PM, jakob1010 said:I really don't find anything wrong with fishing live bait. As long as you aren't dumping your unused bait ir containers in or around the water, I'm ok. I just fish with lures mostly, because that's what I enjoy, but I know that my uncle has caught his personal best, and many other great fish on Rodman with a live shiner, and i don't find a problem with it. Honestly, I actually enjoy it as well.
You just need to wait a little longer. Someone will post yet another thread where live bait becomes cheating, trolling is boring, the I don't believe your weight claim, or my all time favorite, the bucket fishermen keep everything they catch and they're all illegal aliens without a license!
Suspendingjerk reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 10:13 PM, Lund Explorer said:You just need to wait a little longer. Someone will post yet another thread where live bait becomes cheating, trolling is boring, the I don't believe your weight claim, or my all time favorite, the bucket fishermen keep everything they catch and they're all illegal aliens without a license!
After reading this thread, I'm waiting for one featuring a discussion on how using live bait is unethical.
"how would you like it if you were thrown on a hook and cast into the water to be ate?"....
RSM789 reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 7:34 PM, Catt said:So what's you point?
You are against bed fishing just because?
Read your answers again, cause you are coming across as someone who thinks it impacts some thing!
How ironic that you demand I read my answers again when you are the one having issues comprehending them. I never said I was against bed fishing, you are the one jumping to that conclusion.
My point, as I wrote before, is that fishing during the spawn is unlike any other time of the year because the bass are biologically driven to stay in an area despite the presence of a threat (an angler or predator). During all other times of the year, survival is the number one biological driver but during the spawn, it becomes number two.
Again, this doesn't make bed fishing wrong, it makes it different. This was a response to all of those who are incorrectly claiming that it is just another pattern or no different than any other sight fishing. A bass at the time of spawn will react to a threat differently than the rest of the year.
Logan S reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 10:29 PM, RSM789 said:How ironic that you demand I read my answers again when you are the one having issues comprehending them. I never said I was against bed fishing, you are the one jumping to that conclusion.
My point, as I wrote before, is that fishing during the spawn is unlike any other time of the year because the bass are biologically driven to stay in an area despite the presence of a threat (an angler or predator). During all other times of the year, survival is the number one biological driver but during the spawn, it becomes number two.
Again, this doesn't make bed fishing wrong, it makes it different. This was a response to all of those who are incorrectly claiming that it is just another pattern or no different than any other sight fishing. A bass at the time of spawn will react to a threat differently than the rest of the year.
corn-on-the-rob reply :
Well I think the issue here is that most things fishing related comes down to opinion and preference which means many people are strong in their viewpoints which is completely fine.
The bigger issue is people are defending their preferences strongly based on "feelings" and "I think" and also personifying the fish which I'm sure we all can understand to a degree the justification, because on the surface it sounds true.
I rarely bed fish because I think it is boring, my PREFERENCE. But bed fishing does not significantly alter populations in most cases FACT.
But what some people here need to understand is there are scientists/biologists state/local that regulate fishing on all public waters. The regulations are based off of science. If the science tells them the populations will be adversely affected from anything (targeting, harvesting, etc.), more regulations are put in place to correct or prevent it.
mjseverson24 reply :
On 2/3/2015 at 12:06 PM, Catt said:So you just ignore the proven fact that bed fishing DOES NOT impact the spawn?
LOL... if one bed fish gets taken and other fish come in and eat the eggs, then the spawn has been effected. statistically suppose its like a 1:50000 eggs laid become a 3+ lb bass, so every 50000 eggs that get eaten and or fish that doesnt spawn beacue of human intervention durring the spawn reduces the adult population by 1. Now these are just rough approximations, but the concept is still there. to think that you can target fish on a bed and have ZERO impact on the health of that fish and or the eggs it was protecting is just a huge logical fallacy... its kind of like thinking that we as humans cannot alter our climate though our actions... Wishing that we dont make a difference does not make it true... Here is a fact, durring the spawn fishing pressure on many of the top lakes in the country get very heavy... This activity is an economic stimulous for many of the comunities around these lakes and rivers... The government also makes a whole bunch of money off of sales of various products and liscenses... Its all about the money and has very little to do with the health and wellbeing of the fish in these lakes and rivers...
Mitch
scaleface reply :
A healthy bass population will produce an astronomical number of fry . This ensures survival of the species from predators natural disasters...
roadwarrior reply :
Well, let's look at a very specific example: Lake Fork in Texas
Although this lake produces the biggest number of bass in the Texas Lunker Program,
the fishing pressure is simply enormous, especially during the spawn. Bed fishing is a
HUGE part of the attraction for this lake. During this period literally thousands of fishermen
pound this water, seven days a week. There appears to be no impact on the fishery.
Disclaimer: I don't ever intentionally fish for bedding bass, but that's just me. Other guys
really enjoy the challenge and I can appreciate that, I have watched them play!
RoLo reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 4:12 AM, roadwarrior said:Well, let's look at a very specific example: Lake Fork in Texas
Although this lake produces the biggest number of bass in the Texas Lunker Program,
the fishing pressure is simply enormous, especially during the spawn. Bed fishing is a
HUGE part of the attraction for this lake. During this period literally thousands of fishermen
pound this water, seven days a week. There appears to be no impact on the fishery.
Disclaimer: I don't ever intentionally fish for bedding bass, but that's just me. Other guys
really enjoy the challenge and I can appreciate that, I have watched them play!
'Play' is the correct descriptor.
Yes, they are highly visible, but No, they are not highly catchable.
Roger
Catt reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 3:53 AM, mjseverson24 said:LOL... if one bed fish gets taken and other fish come in and eat the eggs, then the spawn has been effected. statistically suppose its like a 1:50000 eggs laid become a 3+ lb bass, so every 50000 eggs that get eaten and or fish that doesnt spawn beacue of human intervention durring the spawn reduces the adult population by 1. Now these are just rough approximations, but the concept is still there. to think that you can target fish on a bed and have ZERO impact on the health of that fish and or the eggs it was protecting is just a huge logical fallacy... its kind of like thinking that we as humans cannot alter our climate though our actions... Wishing that we dont make a difference does not make it true... Here is a fact, durring the spawn fishing pressure on many of the top lakes in the country get very heavy... This activity is an economic stimulous for many of the comunities around these lakes and rivers... The government also makes a whole bunch of money off of sales of various products and liscenses... Its all about the money and has very little to do with the health and wellbeing of the fish in these lakes and rivers...
Mitch
Not one wit of fact in the post!
Alonerankin2 reply :
My lord, Bedding fish are the most ornery females I've encountered in life, well almost.... Not uncatchable, but my goodness, very, very hard.
I'm still glutinous to try it on occasion!
To each their own, I can respect that, but where I fish it's not illegal or immoral..
RSM789 reply :
Like Catt, you seem to believe that I don't fish during the spawn. That isn't true, I do, although I don't specifically cruise around targeting bedding bass. I'm not trying to stop anyone who does, rather just pointing out the error in justifying it as nothing more than "just another pattern".On 2/3/2015 at 11:49 PM, Stratos20SS said:Nobody is disputing that a bass behaves differently during the spawn.
The question is over the sportsmanship/ethics of targeting these fish. If someone thinks that it is less sporting to target bass because of those behavioral traits, fine...They don't have to fish for them...
All sport fish have certain traits & actions that define their species. Typically, these traits are what attracts or repels people to fish for them. During the spawn. it isn't just that a bass behaves differently, it is that they nearly behave like a completely different species.
If that is something you like, cool, target bedding bass. Just don't pretend that it is no different than when you catch a non- bedding fish.
corn-on-the-rob reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 3:53 AM, mjseverson24 said:LOL... if one bed fish gets taken and other fish come in and eat the eggs, then the spawn has been effected. statistically suppose its like a 1:50000 eggs laid become a 3+ lb bass, so every 50000 eggs that get eaten and or fish that doesnt spawn beacue of human intervention durring the spawn reduces the adult population by 1. Now these are just rough approximations, but the concept is still there. to think that you can target fish on a bed and have ZERO impact on the health of that fish and or the eggs it was protecting is just a huge logical fallacy... its kind of like thinking that we as humans cannot alter our climate though our actions... Wishing that we dont make a difference does not make it true... Here is a fact, durring the spawn fishing pressure on many of the top lakes in the country get very heavy... This activity is an economic stimulous for many of the comunities around these lakes and rivers... The government also makes a whole bunch of money off of sales of various products and liscenses... Its all about the money and has very little to do with the health and wellbeing of the fish in these lakes and rivers...
Mitch
The fish you pull off the bed will most certainly be affected. But the population will be virtually unchanged for next year. Like RW said, fish populations survive by massively over supplying. The ecosystem determines the population based on its ability to support it. It won't matter if 8,000,000 eggs were laid instead of 10,000,000 because the ecosystem will have a limit of lets say 10,000 per year successful from the spawn surviving until adulthood based on available forage and space. Yes you are one 3-pounder short (if you kill it) but the population generated by the spawn will be unaffected.
And if it is "all about the money" a lake with no fish doesn't make a good business.
*this is all made on the assumption that this has a well established population aka not a new lake. Also my numbers are not accurate but the concept stands.
Logan S reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 3:53 AM, mjseverson24 said:LOL... if one bed fish gets taken and other fish come in and eat the eggs, then the spawn has been effected. statistically suppose its like a 1:50000 eggs laid become a 3+ lb bass, so every 50000 eggs that get eaten and or fish that doesnt spawn beacue of human intervention durring the spawn reduces the adult population by 1. Now these are just rough approximations, but the concept is still there. to think that you can target fish on a bed and have ZERO impact on the health of that fish and or the eggs it was protecting is just a huge logical fallacy... its kind of like thinking that we as humans cannot alter our climate though our actions... Wishing that we dont make a difference does not make it true... Here is a fact, durring the spawn fishing pressure on many of the top lakes in the country get very heavy... This activity is an economic stimulous for many of the comunities around these lakes and rivers... The government also makes a whole bunch of money off of sales of various products and liscenses... Its all about the money and has very little to do with the health and wellbeing of the fish in these lakes and rivers...
Mitch
There is a massive difference between effecting a single fish (or bed) and effecting an entire fishery. What you are talking about falls into the categories of statistical insignificance and acceptable losses.
As for the part about money, you are seriously overestimating the impact of bass fisherman. Summertime boat and vacation traffic dwarf the spring fishing traffic by an order of magnitude. There's a reason it's significantly cheaper to book rentals on lakes before Memorial Day and after Labor day... There might be a few lakes throughout the country that see a slight bump in the local economy from fishermen, but hardly enough to sway DNR biologists. How would they even get a cut of that anyway?
As the Tournament Director for one of the largest bass clubs in our area I have dealt with our DNR more than your average person...I can tell you that every single person I've dealt with takes their job very seriously and they are laser-focused on the health of the fisheries. I have complete faith that they are managing the resources properly.
Brent Bartman reply :
One thing that has not been talked about is over population. Catch and realease didnt allow George Perry to catch a 22Lber in Georgia calmost 90 years ago. People netted, trapped, Gaffed for food and didnt care about letting their dinner swim away. Lakes 75 years ago probably experieced NO CATCH AND RELEASE.And they did with out a stocking program that most lakes have today. I feel like almost every lake fished is over populated. I think that they lakes are being stocked at a rate that exceeds that lakes ability to maintain quality fish. After reading biology reports for local lakes it seems like numbers increase and size declines over the years.
I think bass over 15 Inchs should be harvested to the bag limit to promote an ecosystem that is not overcrowed. I think that why large lakes do so well is they have an extremly high harvest rate due to the higher pressure.
with the exceptions of larger waters greater than say approx 2500 acres most lakes show signs of overrpopulation. Rarely do i seem to find the football 4 pounders like you will in huge ecosystems like say guntersville or clarkshill in these smaller waters.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/overpopulated-bass.html
Here is a chart to determine if a fish is underwight for its length. and looking back through my fishing records most fish I have caught in resevoirs and lakes 750-5000 Acres are underweight. Fish i have caught in large ECOSYSTEMS seem to be a bit better.
All the research I have done shows that harvesting fish is better for the enviroment that it hurts. so...
CALL ME A BASS KILLER. NOT ONLY DO I SIGHT FISH BEDDING BASS I HARVEST THEM IN THE 15-20" RANGE . AND ANY 10LB PLUS IS GOING ON ICE TO SOON BE HUNG ON MY DRYWALL
K_Mac reply :
Brent if you harvest bass to the limit that are 15" or greater, your chances of catching 4 pounders will not go up. Slot limits are a far better approach to managing fish populations and increasing numbers of bigger fish.
Chris186 reply :
I think the best thing about this thread is that the OP had no idea he was about to open Pandora's box when he started it!!
Brent Bartman reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 8:06 AM, K_Mac said:Brent if you harvest bass to the limit that are 15" or greater, your chances of catching 4 pounders will not go up. Slot limits are a far better approach to managing fish populations and increasing numbers of bigger fish.
Harvesting 5 15" Fish in a lake where out of 1000 fished sampled 500 were greater than 12" none greater than 17" will absolute increase your chances of catching a 4lb plus bas . Bass cant grow to 10 lbs if the food chain doesnt support it.
Slot limits are great for fisheries. But the regulations are written by people whose sole purpose to ensure a healthy population of fish and make each eco system the way it should be. so if by following the states regulation you think it is hurting the bass population you are mistaken.
K_Mac reply :
Brent you can believe what you want. How will harvesting the largest fish in the lake increase the numbers of large fish in the lake? Keeping some of the smaller fish and leaving the bigger ones alone is how lakes are managed for big bass.
Brent Bartman reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 9:21 AM, K_Mac said:Brent you can believe what you want. How will harvesting the largest fish in the lake increase the numbers of large fish in the lake? Keeping some of the smaller fish and leaving the bigger ones alone is how lakes are managed for big bass.
Read the article I linked in my above post.
an over populated lake that is full of 1 lb bass doesnt support the fish growing. A pond or lakes can only support a certain poundage of bass that poundage of bass is determined by food the bass can eat. Say in your 1 acre pond its 1000 lbs and mine is 1000lbs. well your lake has 990 1lb bass and 1 10lbs bass. mine has 100 10 lb bass. I am going to fish my pond not yours to catch a 10lb hawg Does that make sense? your lake could use a good harvest of 1lbs every year so you population will even out. Mine could use a harvest of about 10 every year to allow for a thriving population of healthy fish
So if your fishing a lake that is full of long skinny 1-3 lbers and you can go catch 100 off them any day of the week and a 5+ pound fish is rare then that lake is over populated.
Fish a Lake that has a lower catch rate but most bass are football shaped and 10lb bass are common like lake O or Kissismee chain in florida those bass populations are healthy.
you take a Lake like the Big O or Guntersville. they have a huge ecosystem with enough forage for bass to thrive on the bass can grow you will find those 17" 5lb football bass that look like they are going to pop because the amount of shad or shiners in there bellys
Josh Smith reply :
I try to stay away from this topic because it's such a hot button with folks.
That said, I think it's safe enough here.
I've tried sight fishing beds in the past. It's no great thrill. Mostly I wanted to see the bass's reaction, as in, I wanted to observe the strike. Curiosity was satisfied and I moved on.
I will and do target staging bass pre-spawn and I go after the worn-out females post-spawn when they're eating again (though neutral to negative due to being worn out).
Female bass are generally bigger.
Josh
SirSnookalot reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 8:06 AM, K_Mac said:Brent if you harvest bass to the limit that are 15" or greater, your chances of catching 4 pounders will not go up. Slot limits are a far better approach to managing fish populations and increasing numbers of bigger fish.
I agree, I'll let the professionals of the DNR decide on what size fish is legal and if there should be a slot. If for no other reason than common sense, the big breeders should be released. Some may argue the gene factor or more eggs layed.
I'd be more concerned keeping pollutants out of the water than bed fishing or under or over harvesting a fishery.
Lund Explorer reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 4:12 AM, roadwarrior said:Well, let's look at a very specific example: Lake Fork in Texas
Although this lake produces the biggest number of bass in the Texas Lunker Program,
the fishing pressure is simply enormous, especially during the spawn. Bed fishing is a
HUGE part of the attraction for this lake. During this period literally thousands of fishermen
pound this water, seven days a week. There appears to be no impact on the fishery.
Disclaimer: I don't ever intentionally fish for bedding bass, but that's just me. Other guys
really enjoy the challenge and I can appreciate that, I have watched them play!
LOL! My PB came from Lake Fork many years ago, but it didn't come off a bed. The guy in the front of the boat had spent a half-hour flipping at a spawning pair locked on a bed with absolutely no luck. After I got sufficiently bored watching him I tossed out into the middle of the creek we were in and it was Fish On!
Having said that, I'm surprised you mods haven't figured out that this subject is as beat up and bruised as one of those spawners!
Mainebass1984 reply :
This has been an interesting topic to follow. It is interesting to hear all the opinions of the amateur bass biologists on this subject. There is a lot on non sense being thrown around with very few facts mentioned. Some are so greatly ill informed it is shocking. Everyone is entitled to there opinion though. I am not an avid bed fisherman. I never target largemouth on beds. I do on occasion take a kid or someone new to fishing out for a day of smallmouth bed fishing. It is fun to see them catch fish and they get hooked.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 2/4/2015 at 8:45 PM, Mainebass1984 said:This has been an interesting topic to follow. It is interesting to hear all the opinions of the amateur bass biologists on this subject. There is a lot on non sense being thrown around with very few facts mentioned. Some are so greatly ill informed it is shocking. Everyone is entitled to there opinion though. I am not an avid bed fisherman. I never target largemouth on beds. I do on occasion take a kid or someone new to fishing out for a day of smallmouth bed fishing. It is fun to see them catch fish and they get hooked.
I find it offensive that you will target smallies on beds but not largemouth. That's bass discrimination. 
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 2/5/2015 at 1:45 AM, Dwight Hottle said:I find it offensive that you will target smallies on beds but not largemouth. That's bass discrimination.
Smallmouth are just so easy to catch on a bed. I target them maybe 3 outings a year when I am taking a kid fishing or someone new to fishing. My niece gets a kick out of watching them inhale the lure. It really gets new anglers hooked on fishing. Its pretty exciting when a 3-4 lb smallie inhales your bait within 10 feet of the boat and sky rockets right at the boat. Largemouth... they usually aren't so willing to cooperate when they are on beds. I would just rather target fish not on beds.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 2/5/2015 at 1:50 AM, Mainebass1984 said:Smallmouth are just so easy to catch on a bed. I target them maybe 3 outings a year when I am taking a kid fishing or someone new to fishing. My niece gets a kick out of watching them inhale the lure. It really gets new anglers hooked on fishing. Its pretty exciting when a 3-4 lb smallie inhales your bait within 10 feet of the boat and sky rockets right at the boat. Largemouth... they usually aren't so willing to cooperate when they are on beds. I would just rather target fish not on beds.
I was speaking in jest. What I would like to see you do as the resident biologist is to share some of your learned facts on the original subject. Most guys would appreciate learning the truth.
Mainebass1984 reply :
Without going into to much detail :
Bed fishing does not have a significant impact on bass populations. For every fish you see on a bed there is one or two behind you in deeper water that you cant see. More fish spawn in deeper water then we as anglers would like to think. We assume that the fish we can see on beds shallow are the only fish on beds and represent the entire fish population. Bass spawn will spawn in deeper water then most people target, in an excess of 15 feet at times. Bed fishing in water this deep is difficult, the water could be muddy, it could be windy, beds aren't as pronounced. The deeper bedded fish are seldom targeted.
In many states bass can not be kept during the spawn. In some states, New Hampshire for example, it is illegal to target fish on beds. You can get a ticket for making repetitive casts to a fish on a bed. The amount of time a bass is off a bed is pivotal to egg survival. The longer the fish is out of the water and off the bed the more time other fish have to raid the bed.
Harvesting of more smaller fish will lead to more larger fish and a larger average size. By specifically targeting the smaller size fish you are reducing the competition in that year class. Less fish in a year class leads to faster growth rates and a much healthy condition factor.
Removal of larger fish does harm to the overall fish population. The larger fish grew to that size for a reason. In there genetic makeup they have faster growth rates, longer life spans, greater survival instincts, etc, then the fish that were not able to become adults and attain larger trophy class size. Look at the success and results of the Texas share a lunker program.
Dwight Hottle reply :
Thanks for the insight Nate.
Catt reply :
Nate,
Where's the male?
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 2/5/2015 at 9:44 AM, Catt said:Nate,
Where's the male?
On the bed. Defending against intruders.
Catt reply :
On 2/5/2015 at 9:03 PM, Mainebass1984 said:On the bed. Defending against intruders.
So we catch the female, the male is still there?
Mainebass1984 reply :
On 2/5/2015 at 9:09 PM, Catt said:So we catch the female, the male is still there?
If you catch the female off of a bed the male will not completely abandoned the bed. It may move off of the bed for a short period of time but it will return to guard the bed.
HoosierHawgs reply :
I just don't think that's true. I catch my biggest fish in a strictly Catch and Release water...On 2/4/2015 at 7:15 AM, Brent Bartman said:One thing that has not been talked about is over population. Catch and realease didnt allow George Perry to catch a 22Lber in Georgia calmost 90 years ago. People netted, trapped, Gaffed for food and didnt care about letting their dinner swim away. Lakes 75 years ago probably experieced NO CATCH AND RELEASE.And they did with out a stocking program that most lakes have today. I feel like almost every lake fished is over populated. I think that they lakes are being stocked at a rate that exceeds that lakes ability to maintain quality fish. After reading biology reports for local lakes it seems like numbers increase and size declines over the years.
I think bass over 15 Inchs should be harvested to the bag limit to promote an ecosystem that is not overcrowed. I think that why large lakes do so well is they have an extremly high harvest rate due to the higher pressure.
with the exceptions of larger waters greater than say approx 2500 acres most lakes show signs of overrpopulation. Rarely do i seem to find the football 4 pounders like you will in huge ecosystems like say guntersville or clarkshill in these smaller waters.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/overpopulated-bass.html
Here is a chart to determine if a fish is underwight for its length. and looking back through my fishing records most fish I have caught in resevoirs and lakes 750-5000 Acres are underweight. Fish i have caught in large ECOSYSTEMS seem to be a bit better.
All the research I have done shows that harvesting fish is better for the enviroment that it hurts. so...
CALL ME A BASS KILLER. NOT ONLY DO I SIGHT FISH BEDDING BASS I HARVEST THEM IN THE 15-20" RANGE . AND ANY 10LB PLUS IS GOING ON ICE TO SOON BE HUNG ON MY DRYWALL
pigeonlake reply :
I know in the great lakes they say the gobies will eat the whole nest in around a minute, So while your catching it the eggs are all gone.
Brent Bartman reply :
On 2/9/2015 at 8:55 AM, jakob1010 said:I just don't think that's true. I catch my biggest fish in a strictly Catch and Release water...
It's absolutely true. Just because the lake is catch and release doesn't mean there aren't other forces to allow for a balanced Eco system.
If there are abundance of bass and the forage can't support growth the schools growth will be stunted. Same idea for deer or any other animal
K_Mac reply :
Brent you are right that any system will only support a biomass dependent on many factors. You are also right that selective harvest can be a valuable method of keeping a system in balance. Where you are wrong in my opinion and Mb 1984's (our resident expert) among others, is how that selective harvest is managed. Eat a bunch of the 12" fish and leave those big ones time to grow!
joelhains reply :
I really haven't spent much time fishing specifically for bedding bass, but I'm not opposed to it either. I have read probably 75% of this thread so far (I actually found this thread while searching the web for bedding bass research) and I have heard Studies mentioned but I haven't seen any sited. Can someone provide some links to show the actual studies themselves?
My thoughts on the subject have always been that a given body of water whether it be a lake or river can only support a certain number of mature fish. So take the 1:50,000 ratio of potential 3lb bass to eggs that was mentioned in an earlier post as a starting point. If there are 10,000,000 eggs laid during that year class you will have 200 fish that will reach 3lbs based on the ratio given as a starting point. Now, if there are several sight fishermen on this given body of water and as a result of them taking males off the nest and making the eggs vulnerable the nests in this given body of water lose1,000,000 eggs. Some would make the assumption that since there is a 1:50,000 survival ratio that this given body of water will lose 20 3lb bass from that year class. I tend to believe that this line of thinking is incorrect based on the ability for the given body of water to support a set number of mature fish. I don't believe the year class would lose 20 fish but that the survival ratio would change from 1:50,000 to 1:45,000.
Since a body of water has a limited number of resources to grow a limited number of fish that number will remain the same whether fish are taken off the beds or not. all that is gong to change is the survival ratio of the eggs that hatch.
If a given body of water has the ability to support 10,000 health mature fish but there happens to be 20,000 mature fish in the body of water, the fish won't be healthy. What needs to take place is an event that will decrease the total population of the fish in that given body of water back down to the 10,000 that it is capable of supporting. This could be a fish kill which would most likely take place naturally leaving the strongest fish alive. Or, some other form of regulation which would allow more smaller fish to be taken legally from the body of water so the larger fish wouldn't have to compete for the limited resources with the extra 10,000 fish giving them the opportunity to reach their potential.
I know I've read a study on this a few years back and unfortunanlty I haven't been able to locate it. Maybe there is someone here who will be able to post a link or two for some of these studies. I know most people find this type of thing a bore to read thru but I have always found it very fascinating!
scaleface reply :
^^ Exactly . You are much better at making a point than me .
Dogmatic reply :
Whew, 10 pages! Glad the argument is settled for me. PA, like NJ protects fish during the spawn, allowing fishing, but prohibiting direct targeting of bedding fish. I do have a problem w/their "big bass" lakes policy that only allows the harvest of fish over 15", believing that slots are a better way to properly manage "big bass" waters.
Matthew2000 reply :
Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.
WRB reply :
Long thread with lots of emotion.
Does bed fish harm the bass population in general, no. Can it harm a small fishery with high traffic of bass anglers? Depends on the fishery, population density, water clarity etc.
I wish California had Texas bass mamgement policies, we have very little bass management. Bass are stocked initailly into a new reservior and after that no management outside of 12" minimum and 5 bass limit.
A few lakes request electro shock studies by the DFW to establish a slot limit and a few lakes may incorporate a slot size for a specific year class for a few years.
Some lakes will work with local clubs to establish a safe no fishing zone during the spawn by buoying off a few coves, otherwise there isn't a closed season.
Most of our SoCal lakes are under 2,000 acres at full pool and have very clear water with sparse cover, the beds are easy to find. The lakes have very high fishing pressure with a few hundred bass boaters each weekend, both recreational catch and keep plus weekend tournaments practicing catch and release.
Big bass populations boom and bust under the same fishing regulations, it's the nature of bass to have good recruitment years and bad years. Bed fishing has little overall impact, except on the few giants. Giant bass disappear during summer, fall, winter and show up each spring to spawn and a few are caught and usually end up on someone's wall.
Tom
Alonerankin2 reply :
On 2/24/2015 at 9:36 AM, Matthew2000 said:Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.
Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?
Matthew2000 reply :
Sure you could you could also fish with a zebco. Just ain't the same is it?
Alonerankin2 reply :
Matthew2000, on 23 Feb 2015 - 8:36 PM, said:
Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.
Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?
Wait, did I make a analogy of a analogy? Hmm..
Matthew2000 reply :
On 2/24/2015 at 10:04 AM, Alonerankin2 said:Matthew2000, on 23 Feb 2015 - 8:36 PM, said:
Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.
Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?
Wait, did I make a analogy of a analogy? Hmm..
Indeed you did. My analogys are usually pretty terrible. Almost as bad as slozenps jokes.
PS, slozenp I normally laugh at your jokes the most.
Patrick Morrow reply :
I love spawn fishing because I have to approach bass differently when they are not particularly looking to feed. I have done quite a bit of research on that and the reality is, all this talk about bed fishing is bad it`s kinda overblown. What is even funnier is I am soon going to launch a new questionnaire where I am going to ask pro anglers for the most unconventional techniques during bass spawning time. Get your rods and reels ready guys!
J Francho reply :
I like turtles?
cgs1967 reply :
I was fishing in Alabama from the bank. I noticed a male and female on the bed. I stood back and threw a twin tailed lizard and slowly reeled it into the nest. The male must have picked it up and spit it out 30 times. I finally caught him and was surprised he weighed around four pounds and seeing him in the water I thought he was more like two pounds. I then knew the female was a pig. I kept throwing and when she took it I let her swallow it and she swam away from the bed about 15 yards before I dropped the hammer on her. She was 8 pounds 10 ounces and is on my wall at home. I never thought that it was wrong but rethinking it all now and probably should have left her alone. She is my biggest from the lake I was fishing but there have been 12 pounders caught out of the lake so there are definitely larger bass still.
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