Advice and Tips for future GUIDE? 2024
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
I have been strongly considering becoming a multi species guide in the very near future and would like to hear some good advice, tips, and just what to expect starting out. I would be guiding central, eastern, and southeast Kansas lakes and rivers in areas that I grew up fishing and still fish today. I know Kansas no longer requires licensing for guides and outfitters but I'm sure liability insurance with comprehensive coverage on gear would be a necessity as well as current CPR and first aid certification. What else would be a necessity? I'm looking at doing guided Kayak fishing mainly with emphasis on Largemouth, Smallmouth, White Bass, Crappie, Channel and Flathead Catfish. I have pretty good business sense I just don't know the ins and outs of guiding and it seems a little secretive in regard to available information.
flyfisher reply :
Since you are going to be a kayak based guide i would get ACA instructor certification and make sure you are well versed in self rescue situations. Also be sure to look at any liability that you may be responsible for should an accident happen. Even with waivers and the like, it doesn't mean you won't have to deal with it in court should something go awry.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/5/2016 at 9:29 AM, flyfisher said:Since you are going to be a kayak based guide i would get ACA instructor certification and make sure you are well versed in self rescue situations. Also be sure to look at any liability that you may be responsible for should an accident happen. Even with waivers and the like, it doesn't mean you won't have to deal with it in court should something go awry.
It seems like that would involve a whole different service involving teaching people how to kayak, good idea considering how few people there are that would already know unless they had their own yak. For now though I would target those who do already kayak to some extent but may not fish from one or those who do fish from one but aren't familiar with the waters and species.
flyfisher reply :
I think you limit your clientele base if you are looking for kayak fisherman only as most i know wouldn't use a guide service really. It also opens up your possibility to have group kayak teaching lessons about basic safety, self rescue and then kayak fishing.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/5/2016 at 9:29 AM, flyfisher said:
@flyfisher I will have to check more into that aspect of it. It's always good to be able to expand I'm just concerned with having too much cash outlay at once and too many "irons in the fire". Buying more than 2 or 3 yaks would be a hard pill to swallow and a big gamble to make right off the bat unless i sacrificed some quality for quantity.
flyfisher reply :
one positive is that you if you get decent boats the resale will still be good but i also get the upfront cost will be higher.
Have you thought about all the gear you will have to be providing for your clients too?
bassh8er reply :
Good luck with this endeavor since I've never envied a fishing guide. I've used one twice with good experiences but I have go to imagine that you're going to get some guys who are jerks and don't have a realistic expectation of what a day of fishing should be like. Obviously, your knowledge of the area will be a huge asset but your ultimately affected by the time of year and the weather.
One thing to consider, however, and just my working man's opinion. I know that kayak angling is becoming bigger and bigger, but I, personally, would never pay to fish out of a kayak. The few times I've used a guide, it was an expensive experience but I knew that going in and was willing to pay for it to get a knowledgable guide fishing out of a comfortable boat or ice house having a few beers while the guide did the work and we listened to his tips.
A kayak would also limit your ability to accommodate larger groups; I've gone with a bunch of 4 guys for all of my trips.
not trying to discourage you as there is a local kayak guide in my area, but I have no idea how he does professionally.
buzzed bait reply :
biggest downside i would see for catering to only kayak owner/fishers is you cannot support any out of town clients. this means you must somehow generate an enormous amount of return business on local customers on your local waters.
Brayberry reply :
My fear would be letting the customer use your equipment, and him/her flipping the kayak and losing everything overboard
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 8:53 AM, flyfisher said:one positive is that you if you get decent boats the resale will still be good but i also get the upfront cost will be higher.
Have you thought about all the gear you will have to be providing for your clients too?
Yes, gear has been on my mind but I' m a bit of a tackle and gear junkkie so I have a bunch of extra already and have some wholesale connections I have made over time.
On 1/6/2016 at 9:14 AM, bassh8er said:Good luck with this endeavor since I've never envied a fishing guide. I've used one twice with good experiences but I have go to imagine that you're going to get some guys who are jerks and don't have a realistic expectation of what a day of fishing should be like. Obviously, your knowledge of the area will be a huge asset but your ultimately affected by the time of year and the weather.
One thing to consider, however, and just my working man's opinion. I know that kayak angling is becoming bigger and bigger, but I, personally, would never pay to fish out of a kayak. The few times I've used a guide, it was an expensive experience but I knew that going in and was willing to pay for it to get a knowledgable guide fishing out of a comfortable boat or ice house having a few beers while the guide did the work and we listened to his tips.
A kayak would also limit your ability to accommodate larger groups; I've gone with a bunch of 4 guys for all of my trips.
not trying to discourage you as there is a local kayak guide in my area, but I have no idea how he does professionally.
Completely understand that and a boat isn't entirely out of the question for me but I couldn't compete with most guides as far as high end boats and equipment on them go. I can also get people into places most boats could not navigate as there are shallows and riffles on the rivers I would be guiding. And of course less expense and overhead for me equals lower prices for customers which could lead to more return customers in the long run.
I'm not going to be jumping in neck deep from the start and if I can make back my initial ivestment and grow from that I would be happy. I am sure it will be hit and miss starting out so it will likely be a part time endeavor for a while.I now all about jerk customers as I have ran my on small business in the past successfully just got burnt out on working in the auto repair industry.
On 1/6/2016 at 1:12 PM, buzzed bait said:biggest downside i would see for catering to only kayak owner/fishers is you cannot support any out of town clients. this means you must somehow generate an enormous amount of return business on local customers on your local waters.
If I have boats and gear and tackle for clients then out of town or not wouldn't matter. As far as return business goes it will depend on the customer I suppose but if I keep overhead low and prices reasonable while providing good srvice and an excellent experiene that should help.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 1:31 PM, Brayberry said:My fear would be letting the customer use your equipment, and him/her flipping the kayak and losing everything overboard
That would be a bad deal but with a comprehensive coverage rider on my insurance I would be able to replace anything lost and not be out the money. Most equipment would be strapped in and secured and rods could be leashed to the yak while they are not in use. So at most I would probably lose the rod or rods the customer was using and a little tackle if it was open and not secured.
K_Mac reply :
I can't offer any advice about the business end of things or the market for a yak based business. What I can say is really successful fishing guides have great people skills and are committed to serving their customers. Good luck.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 10:06 PM, K_Mac said:I can't offer any advice about the business end of things or the market for a yak based business. What I can say is really successful fishing guides have great people skills and are committed to serving their customers. Good luck.
I do have people skills although that is hard to convey by keyboard.
I'm not sure what the market is yet either but I have been researching it and believe it could be an unfilled niche since there is more and more interest in kayaking and kayak fishing.
SoFloBassFiend reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 10:05 PM, BIGDFISHERMAN said:That would be a bad deal but with a comprehensive coverage rider on my insurance I would be able to replace anything lost and not be out the money. Most equipment would be strapped in and secured and rods could be leashed to the yak while they are not in use. So at most I would probably lose the rod or rods the customer was using and a little tackle if it was open and not secured.
The more claims you make to replace lost /damaged items the higher your premium will be. Maybe gearing towards an "outdoor experience" and doing some fishing while taking customers on a journey down river may be a little easier way to market and put less pressure on the fishing expenses.
68camaro reply :
I used two guides several months ago in Florida. Both were impressed I knew how to use a bait caster and even a spinning reel correctly. Each guide told me that most of their clients really don't know how to fish so they spend a lot of time working with them and their gear. If you are in kayak and your client gets hooked up, tangled, creates a birds nest or twists line on rod tip, I think it would be time consuming and pain to get to him and fix problem. If two clients are with you multiply by two.
I think that if someone knows how to fish they will probably want bass boat guide. If they want to fish out of yak they probably know how and need of guide goes down.
I think you are limiting yourself by focusing on kayak fishing only, but hey give it a shot and make adjustments to your plan as need. Good luck and I wish you the best .
bholtzinger14 reply :
I would get in touch with Shane ( https://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/spo/5369464877.html )
He has a very good reputation here in Texas. I think you could explain that you would be targeting a completely different part of the county and he would let you pick his brain. I have texted him so many times asking yak questions and he always replies. Seems like a real good guy. I will be booking a trip with him this year. You can even get on the Texas Fishing Forum and search for him and see some great reviews. Another thing you might do is to take a road trip and book a trip with him. I will put money on it that will be the best $125 you could spend. Fish and pick his brain.
clh121787 reply :
I wouldn't advise guiding as a primary source of income. Or leaving a steady job to guide. I think it would be hard breaking into the industry at some of the top lakes in the country. Much less Kansas. I can't imagine Kansas coming to mind when anglers are thinking of a destination to go fishing.
bholtzinger14 reply :
Make it a weekend gig to start off with. Or if you have vacation days at work use those during the best times of the year and book up.
Turtle135 reply :
I know one guide who runs this type of service on a river. A couple of notes:
1. his guided trips are tailored to the individual, if they are just getting into kayak fishing he will focus on paddling skills and basic presentations, if an experienced kayak angler is looking to sharpen his skills he tailors the trip towards eliminating water, finding patterns and refining presentations
2. he is located on world class river smallmouth fishery, clients are drawn to fish that water
the reel ess reply :
I've used a guide twice. What I disliked most was that one of them, a striper/hybrid guide, wanted to set the hook and hand me a rod to reel in. I started grabbing the rod and doing it myself. I know he's used to novices, but I didn't pay $300 to let him do my fishing.
The second guide was in saltwater. I hired him for trout and flounder inshore fishing. After catching one ribbon fish in two hours, he tells us the season is really not good for that and asks if we want to go to a near shore reef for sharks. That's better than nothing, but not what we signed on for. Worse, he wanted more money to go to the reef-fuel. I paid the extra because I had three bored guys along for the ride. We did manage some sharks on the reef, but to me that's like catfishing. All-in-all it was unsatisfying.
I guess what I'm saying is ask them what THEY want to do and be honest with them about their best bet. It sucks to be out $300 and be disappointed at the end of a day.
the reel ess reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 1:31 PM, Brayberry said:My fear would be letting the customer use your equipment, and him/her flipping the kayak and losing everything overboard
I've seen kayak guides zip tie a short section of pool noodle or buoyant material to the rod above the fore grip so it floats. A good idea for any kayak fisherman, although I haven't done it.
gulfcaptain reply :
On 1/6/2016 at 9:56 PM, BIGDFISHERMAN said:Completely understand that and a boat isn't entirely out of the question for me but I couldn't compete with most guides as far as high end boats and equipment on them go. I can also get people into places most boats could not navigate as there are shallows and riffles on the rivers I would be guiding. And of course less expense and overhead for me equals lower prices for customers which could lead to more return customers in the long run.
One thing you must think of if you choose to use a boat and not kayaks, you can not take people out for hire without a USCG issued license (6pack uninspected vessel). So if being a guide is what you want to do, make sure you take the right steps and get the proper documents to operate a boat for hire business carrying paying passengers. Not sure you need it to guide out of a kayak where they have their own equipment but do know you need it out of a boat for sure.
bkohlman reply :
The biggest thing I have noticed about guides is that the best ones will make sure their clients are having a good time regardless if you are catching fish or not.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/8/2016 at 10:48 PM, bholtzinger14 said:I would get in touch with Shane ( https://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/spo/5369464877.html )
He has a very good reputation here in Texas. I think you could explain that you would be targeting a completely different part of the county and he would let you pick his brain. I have texted him so many times asking yak questions and he always replies. Seems like a real good guy. I will be booking a trip with him this year. You can even get on the Texas Fishing Forum and search for him and see some great reviews. Another thing you might do is to take a road trip and book a trip with him. I will put money on it that will be the best $125 you could spend. Fish and pick his brain.
This sounds like a great idea as well as a good excuse for a vacation. Booking with a kayak guide would be a great way to get an idea of what I'm getting in to.
On 1/8/2016 at 11:11 PM, clh121787 said:I wouldn't advise guiding as a primary source of income. Or leaving a steady job to guide. I think it would be hard breaking into the industry at some of the top lakes in the country. Much less Kansas. I can't imagine Kansas coming to mind when anglers are thinking of a destination to go fishing.
Definitely won't be the primary source of income. Don't expect to break the bank starting out, just breaking even would be nice. I have spoken to a lot of people in my lifetime who could have traveled to many places to fish but chose Kansas, you might be surprised.
On 1/8/2016 at 11:13 PM, bholtzinger14 said:Make it a weekend gig to start off with. Or if you have vacation days at work use those during the best times of the year and book up.
Yes it will definitely be part time, weekends, days off, after work during the evening or night if that's what the customer wants.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
Appreciate all of the responses and comments so far. I'm kind of surprised to be getting this much response. Some good ideas and information that I had not though of has come up which is awesome.
Scott F reply :
I have a friend who is a school teacher that guides during the summer doing kayak trips, wading trips and teaching guys how to river fish. He's been doing it for quite a while. To get your name out there, contact EVERY fishing club, (not just tournament clubs) in Kansas that you can find. Every club that I know that has regular meetings are always looking for guest speakers. You give talks about river and kayak fishing and promote your guide service. Do it for free if you can. Get a booth at the small outdoor shows. Write articles for outdoor publications. You'll need to spend a lot of time talking to get some time on the water.
One question. While guiding, will you be fishing too?
SoFloBassFiend reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 8:26 AM, BIGDFISHERMAN said:Appreciate all of the responses and comments so far. I'm kind of surprised to be getting this much response. Some good ideas and information that I had not though of has come up which is awesome.
Check this out. Posted on Facebook by one of the most productive successful guides in all of south Florida.
http://charterfishingbusiness.com/
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 8:49 AM, Scott F said:I have a friend who is a school teacher that guides during the summer doing kayak trips, wading trips and teaching guys how to river fish. He's been doing it for quite a while. To get your name out there, contact EVERY fishing club, (not just tournament clubs) in Kansas that you can find. Every club that I know that has regular meetings are always looking for guest speakers. You give talks about river and kayak fishing and promote your guide service. Do it for free if you can. Get a booth at the small outdoor shows. Write articles for outdoor publications. You'll need to spend a lot of time talking to get some time on the water.
One question. While guiding, will you be fishing too?
Good advice. As for me fishing while guiding that would depend entirely on the customer and the situation. My priority would be to get them on the fish and catching because it would satisfy me more to see a client catching fish and having a good time. I would hopefully know the pattern and some of the favored lures/baits leading up to the trip and not have to fish during to figure that out.
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 1/8/2016 at 11:11 PM, clh121787 said:I can't imagine Kansas coming to mind when anglers are thinking of a destination to go fishing.
It doesn't. I've always had the open invitation to anybody on the board to come to Kansas and fish with me. So far I've had zero people that weren't from Kansas or Missouri take me up on the offer. That's to fish out of a bass boat and not having to pay guide fees.
clh121787 reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 8:26 AM, BIGDFISHERMAN said:Appreciate all of the responses and comments so far. I'm kind of surprised to be getting this much response. Some good ideas and information that I had not though of has come up which is awesome.
I'm pulling for you man. You've got a passion for the sport I love and sharing that with others is awesome. Btw. I hope Ill soon have the opportunity to fish Kansas. It's flying under the radar as a bass state
clh121787 reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 4:04 PM, Bluebasser86 said:It doesn't. I've always had the open invitation to anybody on the board to come to Kansas and fish with me. So far I've had zero people that weren't from Kansas or Missouri take me up on the offer. That's to fish out of a bass boat and not having to pay guide fees.
I love it! Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers or discredit Kansas' bass potential. Just don't here much about it. And I think I'll take you up on that offer. That's extremely generous. Top shelf.
Bluebasser86 reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 8:21 PM, clh121787 said:I love it! Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers or discredit Kansas' bass potential. Just don't here much about it. And I think I'll take you up on that offer. That's extremely generous. Top shelf.
I keep thinking with the 2 power plant lakes that I have close by and fish almost weekly during the winter time that some northern guys will get bit by cabin fever bad enough to do it but it hasn't happened yet. I went Thursday and caught a bunch of hybrids and white bass along with a couple largemouth. This was my second largemouth of the new year.
ClackerBuzz reply :
On 1/8/2016 at 11:11 PM, clh121787 said:I wouldn't advise guiding as a primary source of income. Or leaving a steady job to guide. I think it would be hard breaking into the industry at some of the top lakes in the country. Much less Kansas. I can't imagine Kansas coming to mind when anglers are thinking of a destination to go fishing.
^can I up vote this 100x's?:)
I've been an entrepreneur for many years and while it's not exciting, the best way to succeed is to have a primary source of income while you build your business. side note: starting a business b/c you're unemployed is a surefire recipe for disaster.
Ask a man the number one thing he needs to become a successful business owner and he'll always answer the same: start up capital.
Ask a man who's already in business the number one thing he needs and he'll always answer the same: customers.
I always ask enthusiastic entrepreneurs how many customers they have. they usually answer 'none'. when I ask why they say they need money to get customers. i tell them to keep their day job and see how many customers they can fill their weekends with. that's a challenge most don't like
Sam reply :
Big D, just catch them on every trip to keep your reputation at a high level and to make your customers happy.
Only problem is that bass are moody creatures. One day you clobber them; the next week you don't.
As a guide, you have to clobber them all the time.
Good luck and be safe.
frogflogger reply :
First, there are some successful guides in Kansas - it is a great multi species location
Second - being a good fisherman is important but being good with people is paramount.
you want folks to have a good experience - do that and you'll do okay.
Third - respect your clients - good fishermen or not they are your bread and butter and they don't have to hire you.
From a retired fishing guide
thomas15 reply :
On 1/8/2016 at 9:13 PM, 68camaro said:I used two guides several months ago in Florida. Both were impressed I knew how to use a bait caster and even a spinning reel correctly. Each guide told me that most of their clients really don't know how to fish so they spend a lot of time working with them and their gear. If you are in kayak and your client gets hooked up, tangled, creates a birds nest or twists line on rod tip, I think it would be time consuming and pain to get to him and fix problem. If two clients are with you multiply by two.
I think that if someone knows how to fish they will probably want bass boat guide. If they want to fish out of yak they probably know how and need of guide goes down.
I think you are limiting yourself by focusing on kayak fishing only, but hey give it a shot and make adjustments to your plan as need. Good luck and I wish you the best .
There is a guide service at my home lake. I think they run two boats basically like a party boat. The boats are pontoon boats and from what I can see their customers are basically tourist from the NYC/ Philadelphia area, not serious fisherman. They fish live bait and the customers many times keep their fish. The boats are big and stable and they can supply rods/tackle if necessary. They can fit a bunch of people on them. I see them doing 1/2 day trips where they drop one party off at noon and take another out right away. A local pizza place delivers lunch and they eat at the ramp area which is a state park. The boats are from what I can see are maintained properly but not high end either.
Some of the locals are not happy with this company as they remove a lot of fish from the lake which is <1000 acres. But it is as they say all legal.
There is also at least 1 if not more kayak schools using the lake. They don't fish from the yak though. They are just taught how to use the boat and there is generally quite a bit of them in each group. We are not far from the Lehigh River which also has whitewater so the school probably gets a lot of people that want to kayak whitewater but need the skills first.
BaitMonkey1984 reply :
On 1/9/2016 at 4:24 AM, bkohlman said:The biggest thing I have noticed about guides is that the best ones will make sure their clients are having a good time regardless if you are catching fish or not.
The most important skills you must possess are the ability to boat and navigate safely, find fish, and tackle prep/rigging. Your job is to put clients on fish and get those fish to the deck of the boat. However, most people are not die hard angels like those here on this forum. Therefore, you need to make sure your clients have a blast. Even if your catching fish, that may not in and of itself make the trip a success. Some may want to be educated. some may want to laugh. I mean a day on the water when the fish don't bite would be more than ok If I had G Man cracking jokes all day. You need to find fish and find out what your individual client wants. Be multi-faceted and you will be a success- best of luck. And o yea, one piece of advice- do exactly what your doing by posting this question- ASK. People usually tell you what they want when their money is on the line.
BIGDFISHERMAN reply :
On 1/14/2016 at 3:54 AM, thomas15 said:There is a guide service at my home lake. I think they run two boats basically like a party boat. The boats are pontoon boats and from what I can see their customers are basically tourist from the NYC/ Philadelphia area, not serious fisherman. They fish live bait and the customers many times keep their fish. The boats are big and stable and they can supply rods/tackle if necessary. They can fit a bunch of people on them. I see them doing 1/2 day trips where they drop one party off at noon and take another out right away. A local pizza place delivers lunch and they eat at the ramp area which is a state park. The boats are from what I can see are maintained properly but not high end either.
Some of the locals are not happy with this company as they remove a lot of fish from the lake which is <1000 acres. But it is as they say all legal.
There is also at least 1 if not more kayak schools using the lake. They don't fish from the yak though. They are just taught how to use the boat and there is generally quite a bit of them in each group. We are not far from the Lehigh River which also has whitewater so the school probably gets a lot of people that want to kayak whitewater but need the skills first.
This type of operation would get you run out of town where I'm from. That is why I will encourage catch and release and would limit myself to a few people per trip. A pontoon boat full of tourists would be madness.
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