Casting Reaction Baits Behind The Boat? 2024
5/0 reply :
I've been in situations as a club back seat where the boater is cruising close to the bank throwing cranks, SBs, underpins, etc. ahead of the boat. It's too close to the bank for trying to fish a jig or any type of weighted plastic, the bait ends up too far behind the boat. Would there be any chance of success in throwing the same types of baits the boater is, but casting them behind the boat and retrieving them against the grain so to speak?
Joe
Derek1 reply :
Sounds like the boater needs to be a little more fair with the boat position.
fishballer06 reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 4:32 AM, Derek1 said:Sounds like the boater needs to be a little more fair with the boat position.
This. I hate whenever I get partnered with a boater who does this to his co. It's hard to really fish anything behind a guy like that unless you throw out away from the bank.
5/0 reply :
It is what it is sometimes. But would it work? I can see where if the boat's moving at a pretty good clip it would be like dragging a ten pound sack of potatoes, but if the pace was somewhat slow I may have a chance.
Jig Man reply :
Isn’t that why Ned rig fishing came to be?
tander reply :
^^^^^^ This, drag a Ned rig behind the boat, after you catch a few, you will get his attention.
813basstard reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 4:32 AM, Derek1 said:Sounds like the boater needs to be a little more fair with the boat position.
Ha, yeah this.
If he’s already got a limit, I’ve noticed I got more room.
If it’s 11:30 and he hasn’t touched a fish, it’ll be pretty tight.
Not a rule book type of guy, but would that be considered trolling in a tournament?
While the boat is moving I’m speaking of
jbsoonerfan reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 10:10 PM, 813basstard said:Ha, yeah this.
If he’s already got a limit, I’ve noticed I got more room.
If it’s 11:30 and he hasn’t touched a fish, it’ll be pretty tight.
Not a rule book type of guy, but would that be considered trolling in a tournament?
While the boat is moving I’m speaking of
This. I actually had a guy who was fishing a spinnerbait out in front of the boat and moving at a pretty good clip with the TM while fairly close to shore one time. I grabbed a lipless and tossed it behind the boat and just sat there and watched him fish. We went probably 300 yards or more along the bank and I guess his spidey senses noticed I was just watching him. He turns and says "Are you trolling?" I told him "I have no other choice at this point" I think he got the hint, he slowed down where I could work a soft plastic.
Glaucus reply :
One time I was in the back of somebody's boat picking off a ton of fish with a lipless that he wasn't catching with a Texas Rig.
Fishes in trees reply :
I'm guessing that the deck isn't big enough for 2 guys to cast from the front. Perhaps work on your casting/upgrade your gear, so that you can chuck a crank past his shoulder and 70 or 80 feet past that. (If you're going to use this approach, be a good and accurate caster). Throwing to the deeper water off to the side is an option.
Is this a friendly club or a tournament trail like the BFL or similar? Once, at a BFL, where the boater I drew was weighing 5 and I wasn't weighing anything and I felt like I'd been back boated all day, I just refused to sign his weigh slip. I got my stuff out of the boat, etc., prior to getting in line for the weigh in, and when the time came told the tournament director what I was doing and why I was doing it and walked away. I continued to fish BFL for a few years after that incident and didn't get any blow back from that incident He got a little steamed, but so what. In a "friendly" club tournament, politics might be different, and I admit there are lots of other ways to approach this issue.
EWREX reply :
this has happened to me in my smaller club tournaments a few times. it's actually very frustrating, especially since being at the back of the boat already has a slight disadvantage per say. usually i'll speak up and just ask for a little bit of room to be able to flip and pitch to the bank or whatever we're fishing at the time. i've tried dragging something off the back of the boat, but it's a pain in the butt to keep up and I usually just wind up getting even more frustrated since it's not ideally what i'd like to be doing.
5/0 reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 10:10 PM, 813basstard said:Not a rule book type of guy, but would that be considered trolling in a tournament?
While the boat is moving I’m speaking of
I understand what you're saying, but I would be actually reeling in the bait. Although I've heard of guys dragging a jig, carolina rig, or split shot rig behind a boat and doing well. Don't know if this would be considered trolling. But in the situation I was talking about I wouldn't want to do this because the bait just gets too far behind the boat.
On 12/17/2019 at 5:51 AM, tander said:^^^^^^ This, drag a Ned rig behind the boat, after you catch a few, you will get his attention.
I wouldn't think a 1/10 to 1/5 oz Ned head would ever see bottom in the scenario I was referring to.
On 12/17/2019 at 4:34 AM, fishballer06 said:It's hard to really fish anything behind a guy like that unless you throw out away from the bank.
I think this might be my best alternative in this situation, out and forward. The bad side would be that most of our impoundments out here drop off really fast to some really deep water, I'm talking 60+ feet.
Logan S reply :
On 12/17/2019 at 4:52 AM, 5/0 said:It is what it is sometimes. But would it work? I can see where if the boat's moving at a pretty good clip it would be like dragging a ten pound sack of potatoes, but if the pace was somewhat slow I may have a chance.
My co's catch fish behind the boat with the same bait I'm using, so I wouldn't count it out. You might also ask if you can cast up the other side of the boat, some guys don't like that though....Including me in certain situations. If you do this, go with something heavier or deeper running so it gets down quicker since you're usually dealing with water a few feet deeper than the boater.
When I'm doing what you describe I typically tell my co sorry for the poor angle first...And then tell him that he can either cast up ahead on the opposite side of the boat (most of the time), as long as he's careful not to get too close to the trolling motor - Or he can cast/drag behind the boat, as long as he understands I'm unlikely to back track 50 yards to get a snag. I've had co's catch fish both ways and I'm happy when they do.
Regarding the situation in general...Like you said, it's something that happens occasionally. If that's how I'm having success I'm going to do it. Doesn't mean I go out of my way to do it, but it happens. Part of being a co is dealing with situations like this, I've never had anyone take it personally or get upset (not saying you are, but other people here seem to be). The only place I see people get up in arms about it is on the internet ????.
WRB reply :
It's called trolling.
The problem that may occur is you hang up the crankbait and need the boater to stop moving forward and unsnag the lure.
Tom
clh121787 reply :
as a non boater you have to have realistic expectations. Few variables to consider. Tournament? Team? Individual? Seems like a few non boaters have had not ideal experiences. at the end of the day its his boat. and so are the expenses that come with it so imo and rightfully so the boater should help himself to unfished water the way he pleases. if this means the back deck has a poor angle so be it if you dont like. go get your own boat. Hopefully none of these acts are done out of spite. You just have to fish the conditions and take what you can get.
Glaucus reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 7:20 AM, clh121787 said:as a non boater you have to have realistic expectations. Few variables to consider. Tournament? Team? Individual? Seems like a few non boaters have had not ideal experiences. at the end of the day its his boat. and so are the expenses that come with it so imo and rightfully so the boater should help himself to unfished water the way he pleases. if this means the back deck has a poor angle so be it if you dont like. go get your own boat. Hopefully none of these acts are done out of spite. You just have to fish the conditions and take what you can get.
So much for respect and courtesy amongst gentlemen who share the same passion. I guess my morality and integrity is a lot different.
Personally I want to be a better fisherman and a good host. I don't want to position a guy out of fishing effectively and make him have a miserable time.
Logan S reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 9:06 AM, Glaucus said:So much for respect and courtesy amongst gentlemen who share the same passion. I guess my morality and integrity is a lot different.
Personally I want to be a better fisherman and a good host. I don't want to position a guy out of fishing effectively and make him have a miserable time.
It's impossible for the boat to ALWAYS be in an ideal position for both anglers, even with the best intentions on the boater's part. A huge part of being a co-angler in tournaments is understanding this and adapting to it the best you can.
If stuff like this makes someone miserable on the water they should probably try to reset/re-evaluate their expectations because regardless of the situation...a day on the water fishing, overall, should still be fun.
I've fished a lot of tournaments with a lot of different co-anglers....The good ones catch fish regardless of what I'm doing with the boat, they adapt and make it work.
papajoe222 reply :
I've participated in my share of tourneys as both a boater and non-boater.
From the back seat, I've done well doing something similar, retrieve speed wise, and hitting different targets. If the boater has the TM on high, go with the flow because he'll be unable to hit everything and sometimes you can even pull a fish out from the same spot he'd cast to. Don't cast in front of the guy up front and stay off the front deck unless invited to join him there.
As a boater, you're in control unless other arrangements were made ahead of time.
Swbass15 reply :
I do really well dragging a dropshot or tube in these situations. Also when the coin is flipped and my backseater does the same it shows me to slow down. Another option is fish something similar as your boater but maybe a little different. He throws a square bill pick up a spinner bait and so on.
WRB reply :
Moving a lure with the boat is the difination of trolling in a tournament. Dragging a lure as the boat is drifting without any power is usually allowed but not using a trolling motor to move the boat. Some anglers call trolling using the trolling motor strolling to get around the tournament rules of dragging lures slowing using a TM, common practice with club anglers.
The front seater controls where and how he fishes, the back seater is along for the ride.
Try communicating your desires before the event starts so you and the boater know what to expect.
Tom
scaleface reply :
Throwing reaction baits the opposite way the boat is going usually results in snags and frustration . Let the boater know that you dont have room to cast . If that doesnt work , make the best of it . I won a club tourney from the back with the boater hogging the water . I used a six inch plastic lizard with a 1/4 ounce bullet weight Teas rigged and for two days quickly hit whatever cover we went by .
Bird reply :
This thread brings up my preferred method of fishing.....alone.
I do however have several friends with bass boats that invite me quite often and I always have fun but my intensity level drops considerably when I'm sitting in the back jigging stumps that just had a fish pulled off it. Lol
Jermination reply :
i always try to keep the boat at 45 paralleling the bank when i have someone in the back, often times giving them a better angle than i have being able to keep their bait in the strike zone longer. If we get into a tight creek i will either tell them to come up front with me or i'll throw something that moves to stir them up & have him clean up behind me
EWREX reply :
GET YOUR OWN BOAT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
just kidding. that would be an ignorant response.
clh121787 reply :
On 12/18/2019 at 9:06 AM, Glaucus said:So much for respect and courtesy amongst gentlemen who share the same passion. I guess my morality and integrity is a lot different.
Personally I want to be a better fisherman and a good host. I don't want to position a guy out of fishing effectively and make him have a miserable time.
Excellent example of a sliding slope fallacy!
clh121787 reply :
a non Boater would have to have an inflated sense of self importance to believe he/she is entitled to the same potential oppurtunities IN A TOURNAMENT as the boater. A day of fun fishing in my boat is the polar opposite.If i do have a guest ill pretend im a guide and let my guest fish the prime stuff. its all situational
Glaucus reply :
On 12/19/2019 at 5:18 AM, clh121787 said:a non Boater would have to have an inflated sense of self importance to believe he/she is entitled to the same potential oppurtunities IN A TOURNAMENT as the boater. A day of fun fishing in my boat is the polar opposite.If i do have a guest ill pretend im a guide and let my guest fish the prime stuff. its all situational
That's not what I said, but we are on different wave lengths.
"Great victory today, Jeff! How'd you do it?"
"You see, we eliminated half the crowd right away with terrible boat positioning. I made especially sure that the guy in my boat had no opportunities. He's probably better, so I had to screw 'im."
Not into it. If you are, cool.
scaleface reply :
In club tournaments the non-boater should be given sufficient opportunity to cast and catch fish . Its only a trophy .
WRB reply :
Bass fishing tournaments have evolved. Back when Ray Scott started B.A.S.S. with the All American events the rule was partners were blind drawn, the boat owner had the option to be up front 1/2 the time and could choose which half he wanted. Both anglers shared the operating the boat or could waive it.
The blind draw for partners was a effort to reduce cheating, the split operating time was to even the competition between the anglers. That concept lasted a long time until B.A.S.S. gave up the 2 anglers fishing together concept.
The next level of competition was Opens where the Pro runs the boat and AAA is a back seater and both anglers share the 5 bass limit weight. This Pro-Am concept helps to promote a team effort. The club events are usually a Team events with 2 anglers fishing together and sharing a 5 bass limit. The events where 2 anglers fish together and have separate 5 bass limits creates competition between the front and back seater and isn't to anyone's best interest, most tournaments have eliminated head to head events.
Tom
5by3 reply :
As a coangler I’ve had both experiences. I’ve had boaters who parallel the bank to the point that I can touch the shoreline with my rod tip or put the nose of the boat towards the dock and the back end out towards the middle of the lake. Sure it’s frustrating, but it’s their boat so I don’t feel I have any justification to speak up. When this happens I usually just cast off the other side of the boat parallel to the bank.
On the flip side, I’ve also had boaters who are absolutely great to fish with and always make sure to position the boat fairly so I can reach targets too. Sometimes they’ll even let me have first cast to a target or completely bypass it altogether and tell me to put a cast in there.
That being said, I find team format tournaments that share a 5 fish limit to be much more enjoyable. There are no hostile feelings, nobody cares where the other person casts, and I don’t have to feel uncomfortable asking permission to cast to a particular spot or worry that I am ticking off my boater by casting towards the front half of the boat.
EWREX reply :
On 12/19/2019 at 5:18 AM, clh121787 said:a non Boater would have to have an inflated sense of self importance to believe he/she is entitled to the same potential oppurtunities IN A TOURNAMENT as the boater.
thats an awful take, but to each there own?
5/0 reply :
Thank you all for your responses! There were many interesting takes on the situation! However the intent of my original post was not to debate the ethics (for lack of a better word) of the boater/non boater relationship. I believe there is no real answer to that one, too many variables come into play. I fish small club events, not "money" tournaments. And I understand that competitiveness can exist no matter what the level. I was just trying to see if there were alternative methods of fishing when put in a position, as one responder mentioned, where I can touch the bank with my rod tip as the boater was cruising down the bank. I thought that maybe I could match his presentation, say throwing a crank bait or SB behind the boat and retrieving, not trolling, it back to the boat.
I have come to approach our club events this way:
I never throw beyond the 50 yard line unless I'm told it would be okay.
When asked to share the front, I usually decline. I'm not as skilled as most of the boaters and I'm not about to mess up their presentation.
If given the opportunity to run the trolling motor, I usually decline this also. Another experience thing. I will take it to hold the boat if the boater needs to retie or adjust their equipment.
These are just things that I feel will make for a more comfortable day on the water for all involved. Are there times when I'm just along for the ride, yes. But there are also times when I'm allowed to break the rules I set for myself and made to feel comfortable with doing it. I just want to get out and have fun without starting WW III.
Joe
Cheetahsneverprosper reply :
I've been in that situation before, and usually they're going too fast to drag something like a carolina rig or drop shot out of the back of the boat. Any bottom contact bait, whether it's a ned rig or texas rig, is guaranteed to hang up and your boater isn't going to want to go back 100 feet to unsnag you. So you'll be doing nothing but breaking off and retying all day long.
A good solution I've found is a 3.8 Keitech Fat Impact swimbait on an exposed hook like a Strike King Squadron jighead. I personally like the Owner Flashy Swimmer because it's weedless, but expect that you're going to lose a few baits to snags, so a more inexpensive jighead may be the way to go.
Cast it out a good ways and run it as close to shore as you can. You'll be targeting fish hidden in the nooks and crannies that the boater may have missed. If the boat is going too fast for it to swim properly, give it some slack and let it glide for a second or two. Even click open the bail and let it go to the bottom before closing the bail and pulling it forward again. Sometimes there will be a fish on it when they hit it right as it dies.
Eventually as you work it, your bait will end up so far in back of the boat that you'll need to reel in and start over.
Use a longer rod, like 7'6" or so, to give you a good amount of slack to work the bait with. You'll also be fighting line stretch, so I highly recommend 20lb braid tied to a 2 or 3 foot fluorocarbon leader of 15 or 17 lbs. I wouldn't go less than 15lbs because when you do catch one, you'll be fighting the fish as well as the forward movement of the boat.
As for it being called trolling, if you're holding the rod and physically working the bait, you can credibly claim that you're working the shoreline exactly like the boater is doing at the front. And if that's all he's giving you to work with, then you really have no choice.
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