Why so flippin long? 2024

Red reply :

Why are flippin sticks so long? 8', seriously? What is the advantage here? I do alot of this in the lake where I fish and have recently been wondering if I need qa proper flippin stick. I use a 6'6" Hvy Fast rod with a Revo S. I think I am fairly accurate with my pitches and flips. Is this a preference thing or is there a real advantage to having another foot and a half of rod to work with. Thoughts?

Thanks

Cliff

FishnBen reply :

When you are flipping/pitching it is usually to cover AND with a jig or texas rigged plastic. The longer rod helps you with 2 things: 1) it picks up more line on your hookset so even if you get caught with the rod at the ten o' clock position, for instance, you can still drive a hook home easier than with a shorter rod, and 2) once you hook that fish in the cover, you will have more leverage over the fish to get it out.

Hammer 4 reply :

7'6" works perfect for me..

DINK WHISPERER reply :

Pitching and flipping are two totally different techniques that require different rigs IMO. For true flipping(HEAVY cover) the longer rods have much more muscle to get the fish out of the cover quickly. Also, you can get more distance in each flip with a longer rod. It also depends a lot on the anglers height. Shorter anglers tend to be more comfortable with shorter rods. For flipping nasty cover i use a Powell 765. For pitching i use a Powell 705C in scattered cover.

SDoolittle reply :

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Is this a preference thing or is there a real advantage to having another foot and a half of rod to work with. Thoughts?

Flipping is designed for close range precision. Having an extra foot and a half of rod essentially adds three feet to your range. I use a 7'5" rod and it suits me just fine.

David P reply :

Longer rods help a TON, there are MANY reason why, and it's much more then just preference.

Flipping, the longer rod is MANDATORY , you get much more line out there , given that you're not using the reel and just the line that is out, it's a huge advantage.

The flipping rods pick up much more line on the hook set, and are beef sticks, there aren't many 6'6 rods that I've held that are a stiff and solid as flipping sticks.

Accuracy is another plus, it's helped my accuracy a lot.

flippin and pitchin reply :

For true flipping you are pulling line back with the off hand and then giving it back during the pendulum swing, like a single haul when fly casting. The longer rod allows you to reach further. The longer rod allows for more line to be taken up on a hook set and if you fish braid or super heavy line you can swing a fish a bit easier. I use a Lamiglas Certified Pro XFT806 for flipping and the 764 for pitchin. BASS set a length rule in the early days for rods so the 7-6 became the standard. Once rod lockers could hold big sticks the 8 footers became much more popular.

bigfruits reply :

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Pitching and flipping are two totally different techniques that require different rigs IMO.

i pitch with a 6'8" and a 7'.

Red reply :

It sounds like there is an actual advantage in this situation for the longer rod. I guess I should look into something a bit longer, 90% of my fishing throughout the year is in this heavy timber you see behind me in this photo.

Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on y'all!!!

Cliff

Sam reply :

In a nutshell, you want to sneak up on the fish along the bank or other sturcture (stickups, brushpiles, stumps, trees,) and the long rod gives you the power to send your lure into the water softly and where you want it to go without long casts.

You can flip and pitch with any length rod. Your choice.

The guys gave you the advantages of a longer rod above so do what they suggest and are doing.

I have 7-foot plus rods that I use on rivers to flip and pitch.

Get Denny Brauer's DVD or book on jig fishing and he explains flipping and pitching or just Google either technique and read, read, read, read, read, and then practice, practice, practice, practice.......

Great technique. Just watch out for the snakes in the trees!!! ;D ;D ;D

David P reply :

After seeing what you're fishing, I wouldn't be caught with anything less then my Dobyns 766, and most likely would only be using an 805 (8fter).

Not sure if you've had issues losing fish, but certainly if you get one big enough he could wrap you up pretty easily.

The longer rod also lets you lead and steer the fish away from cover and get them out to open water. I've had to put my rod tip over and under tree branches that I couldn't have done with a foot and a half less.

EastTexasBassin reply :

Wow, that cover in the picture is calling to me. I wanna work that stuff over with a jig so bad.

I use a 7ft rod for pitching, but I hardly ever flip. If I flipped more often, I'd probably use a longer rod.

BassThumb reply :

Wow, that is some nasty cover! Look into that Dobyns 766 that Brokeju mentioned. That rod is really powerful, yet light, surprisingly sensitive and more well balanced than any 7' 6" - 8' flipping stick I've used. I haven't been out on the water yet with it but I'm excited to try it. With the extra length, you'll have better range and control of the fish once hooked. Being able to easily steer that fish really comes in handy. I occasionally do some pitching with my 6' 8" MHXF worm rod and I'm worried sometimes that I might break it because I'm not always able to steer the fish clear of the heavy weeds, and then I have to wrestle it out of there, often losing the fish. It doesn't have nearly the backbone of a longer H power rod.

Red reply :

That fish in the pic is the biggest i have caught out of there, 6lbs. I haven't had any trouble losing fish yet, I got all caught up once but thanks to 50lb braid I was able to land the fish. I think the Dobyns might be out of my price range, I was considering the skeet flippin stick, in my price range, any reports on this stick specifically?

SDoolittle reply :

Red, is that Waco Lake? I've been meaning to head up there.

scrutch reply :

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It sounds like there is an actual advantage in this situation for the longer rod. I guess I should look into something a bit longer, 90% of my fishing throughout the year is in this heavy timber you see behind me in this photo.

Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on y'all!!!

Cliff

Man that pic looks like fun... this cabin fever is killin me!!!

Fishaholic7lbs reply :

Well to me flippin is a clear water presentation cuz your bait doesnt hammer the water when it enters. But i do flip in any water conditions and in the clear water you wanna try to get as far away as possible from the cover but still makin an accurate flip. Thats when the longer rods help me. And in muddier water you can get ;)away with getting a little close. Thats when you need a 7 or 7'3" in my opinion.

Hammer 4 reply :

Agreed.

Quote
Longer rods help a TON, there are MANY reason why, and it's much more then just preference.
Flipping, the longer rod is MANDATORY , you get much more line out there , given that you're not using the reel and just the line that is out, it's a huge advantage.

The flipping rods pick up much more line on the hook set, and are beef sticks, there aren't many 6'6 rods that I've held that are a stiff and solid as flipping sticks.

Accuracy is another plus, it's helped my accuracy a lot.

Catt reply :

In Denny Brauer's Jig Fishing Secrets DVD he states your rod length should be proportionate with your stature and that if you have no issues with accuracy or your hook up ratio is high then you have no need to make a change.

I flip/pitch matted vegetation, buck (button willows) brush, timber etc. with a 7' rod

tyrius. reply :

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2) once you hook that fish in the cover, you will have more leverage over the fish to get it out.

No, no, no. This always comes up when we talk about longer rods. The longer the rod is the LESS leverage the angler has over the fish because you are giving the fish a longer lever to work against you.

If you want real world examples look at the rods used for shark fishing or tuna fishing. They aren't 8 footers. An angler using an 8 foot rod to catch a massive tuna would get pulled in.

J Francho reply :

Depends on where your hands are....

Some levers below. A fishing pole is a class three lever.

tyrius. reply :

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Depends on where your hands are....
Some levers below. A fishing pole is a class three lever.

Correct, but a class three lever provides no mechanical advantage. In fact, the longer the lever the greater the DISadvantage.

To verify it do a simple experiment. Do a bicep curl with a weighted object. Then attach that weighted object to a stick (or something that increases the distance between the weight and your elbow) and curl it again. The second weight will feel heavier because you are increasing the mechanical disadvantage of the third class lever by increasing the distance from the load.

J Francho reply :

I guess, but why doesn't it play out like this on the water? Surely there are a ton of dynamics beyond just leverage not being considered.

tyrius. reply :

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I guess, but why doesn't it play out like this on the water? Surely there are a ton of dynamics beyond just leverage not being considered.

Because the loads being applied aren't typically going to be enough to cause anyone to notice an issue. A 3 lb bass probably doesn't pull hard enough for the typical angler to notice the difference. However, tuna fishermen catching 100 pounders would know.

As an example, the Penn Tuna Stick is 5'6" or 6' long. If a longer rod provided a mechanical advantage in landing a fish then they would 8' or 9' long.

http://www.consumersmarine.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=87922&pdesc=Penn_Tuna_Stick_TS3080ARA60_Rod&cname=Rods&aID=701A&merchID=1009&r=view

In my opinion, the biggest advantage to a longer rod isn't about leverage, it's about control. You can get your rod tip closer to the fish and are better able to control it. If you're flipping you're already pretty close and a longer rod just gets the rod tip closer so that you can pull the fish where you want it to go. Does a foot make a huge difference? I don't know. I don't even have a flipping rod.

All I know is that you get LESS leverage on the fish with a longer rod. This is a basic scientific fact.

J Francho reply :

Why is it easier to lift a fish, or anything on a stick if the fulcrum and the point of effort are farther apart? I mean, why bother putting the butt of the rod in your gut, or on tuna rigs, in the lap harness if it doesn't offer an advantage? Are most using the wrong term? Is there another term? You can't possibly convince me that no handle is the same as a long handle.

tyrius. reply :

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Why is it easier to lift a fish, or anything on a stick if the fulcrum and the point of effort are farther apart? I mean, why bother putting the butt of the rod in your gut, or on tuna rigs, in the lap harness if it doesn't offer an advantage? Are most using the wrong term? Is there another term? You can't possibly convince me that no handle is the same as a long handle.

I think we went right past each other. The distance between the point of effort and the fulcrum is not the same as the distance between the point of effort and the "load".

My point was that increasing the distance between the point of effort (your hands when the rod is in your gut) and the load provides LESS leverage. Given two rods with the same length handle the longer rod will provide less leverage than the shorter one.

However to your point above, given two equal length rods where one has a longer handle than the other, the one with the longer handle will give the angler MORE leverage. In this instance the point of effort/hands is closer to the load/rod tip.

Did you see the length of the handles on those Tuna Stick rods? They combine a very long handle with a short rod to provide the angler with as much leverage as possible, which actually means decreases the mechanical disadvantage of the third class lever as much as possible.

J Francho reply :

That was my original point. Most flipping sticks are longer because they add length at the handle. My 7-6 XH stick is actually shorter from the reel seat to the tip than any of my 7 footers. It is about leverage, as long as the geometry supports it, e.g. a longer handle that you actually use.

ArcticCat500 reply :

not to step on any toes but,

Red, if your pulling 6lbers and such out of cover like that with a 6.6, then why feel the need for change? Years ago all we ever fished were 6's n 6'6's.....if your gear is putting pigs like that in the boat then I see no need to go longer. I have one rod thats over 7ft,

GLoomis BCR864 I bought soley for the use with big frogs off my kayak, I learned having a little longer rod on the kayak is benificial, but everything else is under that. Its your choice.

tyrius. reply :

Quote
That was my original point. Most flipping sticks are longer because they add length at the handle. My 7-6 XH stick is actually shorter from the reel seat to the tip than any of my 7 footers. It is about leverage, as long as the geometry supports it, e.g. a longer handle that you actually use.

That would be one hella long handle!! Is it like 16"? I hadn't ever seen a flipping stick like that. Most of the ones that I've looked at (as I said I don't own one) have a slightly longer handle in the 7'6" vs the 7', but not significantly longer (like an inch).

J Francho reply :

I'll measure the new one when I get home.

I was going to look for a pic of the old one, but none show it clearly. I'd say its at least 12"+. Its definitely longer than any other rod I own. here is a pic of my salmon spinning rod, clearly showing the ridiculous handle, so necessary for bracing against their blistering runs. It's a 9.5, but feels more like an 8.5 with a Michigan Grip.

Handle length is why I chose my AVC62MXF for jerkbaits. I had a 6'er for this, but always felt I could use a couple extra inches from the reel forward. The 6'6" rods offered this, but 1/2 the increase was in the handle, and that got in the way. Found the 6-2, and life was grand.

Skeet22 reply :

This is easier to understand than we are making it. Simply put the closer your hands are to the rod tip the more leverage you have on the fish. The closer the rod tip is to the fish the easier it is to work the fish out of cover hence the need for a balance of workability and leverage on a flipping stick with workability the top priority in my opinion due to the need to pull fish out of cover quickly. The most popular lenghth which is probaly 7' for most applications is most likley chosen by most anglers for a little extra casting distance not an increase in leverage.

Tie a rope to the end of a 16' 2x4 and connect it to a 20# weight then grab the other end of the 2x4 and try to lift the weight. Now do this with a 3' baseball bat and it will be much easier.

Oh and the only reason a longer handle provides more leverage is because this moves the reel(hand area) closer to the rod tip. If you have two rods that have the reel and rod tip the same distance apart it does not matter if the handle is 12" or 3' the leverage will be the same.

Skeet22 reply :

I think another point that we are missing is that we are primarily working the fish with our rod and most of the lifting or pulling in is being done by the reel so when your thinking of common leverage we are forgetting that we are pulling in this weight(fish) with a winch sort of like a crane.You work the load with the boom and lift the load with the winch.

RoLo reply :

Quote
This is easier to understand than we are making it. Simply put, the closer your hands are to the rod tip the more leverage you have on the fish. The closer the rod tip is to the fish the easier it is to work the fish out of cover hence the need for a balance of workability and leverage on a flipping stick with workability the top priority in my opinion due to the need to pull fish out of cover quickly. The most popular lenghth which is probaly 7' for most applications is most likley chosen by most anglers for a little extra casting distance not an increase in leverage.
Tie a rope to the end of a 16' 2x4 and connect it to a 20# weight then grab the other end of the 2x4 and try to lift the weight. Now do this with a 3' baseball bat and it will be much easier.

Oh and the only reason a longer handle provides more leverage is because this moves the reel(hand area) closer to the rod tip. If you have two rods that have the reel and rod tip the same distance apart it does not matter if the handle is 12" or 3' the leverage will be the same.

Well put.

I would add one thing though. The biggest advantage of a long handle

is that allows the angler to rest the butt section on the bottom of the forearm.

In heavy cover and with very large fish, this takes the lion's share of pressure off the wrist,

allowing the angler to lever small buildings to the boat

Roger

Skeet22 reply :

Quote

Quote
This is easier to understand than we are making it. Simply put the closer your hands are to the rod tip the more leverage you have on the fish. The closer the rod tip is to the fish the easier it is to work the fish out of cover hence the need for a balance of workability and leverage on a flipping stick with workability the top priority in my opinion due to the need to pull fish out of cover quickly. The most popular lenghth which is probaly 7' for most applications is most likley chosen by most anglers for a little extra casting distance not an increase in leverage.
Tie a rope to the end of a 16' 2x4 and connect it to a 20# weight then grab the other end of the 2x4 and try to lift the weight. Now do this with a 3' baseball bat and it will be much easier.

Oh and the only reason a longer handle provides more leverage is because this moves the reel(hand area) closer to the rod tip. If you have two rods that have the reel and rod tip the same distance apart it does not matter if the handle is 12" or 3' the leverage will be the same.

Well put.

I would add one thing though. The biggest advantage of a long handle

is that allows the angler to rest the butt section on the bottom of the forearm.

In heavy cover and with very large fish, this takes the lion's share of pressure off the wrist,

allowing the angler to lever small buildings to the boat

Roger

Agree 8-)

Red reply :

Well first off thanks for all the info. Second I went to Academy yesterday and they had a 7'6" American Rodsmiths Flippin Stick in there. So I grabbed it up and checked it out. My opinion is, I will stick to my 6'6" HVY Allstar for now!! That thing is freakin huge!! I wouldn't use it just because of the size, not to mention it is d**n near longer than my boat!. I swear the butt of the Blank was an inch thick! The rod I am using is built on an Allstar 785, which is a pretty stought(sp?) stick, and I mostly pitch and my accuracy seems fine to me. I guess until I start having issues landing fish I won't worry about it. However I appreciate all the great info and science lessons from y'all!! Very informative!

Thanks ;D

Cliff

J Francho reply :

Glad you worked things out, Red. I think if you get the opportunity to fish a longer rod, try it for an hour, you might be swayed. I went years thinking 6' was plenty, and now I wouldn't be without my longer rods.

As a follow up, all my 7' rods are 9" from the back of the reel seat. The flipping stick is 13", so we're talking a net gain of 2" to the tip. It is longer, but not by much. The 6-2 is 7", whereas most 6-6 are 9, IIRC. Suppose it depends on brand too.

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Why so flippin long? 2024

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