ICAST 2018 - Pedal Kayaks - Pelican, Riot, etc. (Title Change) 2024
Darren. reply :
Coming at ICAST.
Start watching at 2:34...
Mirage Drive patent expired, I guess.
Edited by Darren.
IgotWood reply :
Pretty cool. We'll see how it performs and how it holds up. I'm interested in seeing what the price will be.
Darren. reply :
On 7/8/2018 at 9:09 PM, IgotWood said:Pretty cool. We'll see how it performs and how it holds up. I'm interested in seeing what the price will be.
Indeed. Another site was speculating it'll be the first under $1000,
but I have trouble seeing it that low.
No reverse unless they figure a way that doesn't infringe on Hobie's
current patent for reverse (which is not expired)...
kenmitch reply :
On 7/8/2018 at 9:50 PM, Darren. said:Indeed. Another site was speculating it'll be the first under $1000,
but I have trouble seeing it that low.
No reverse unless they figure a way that doesn't infringe on Hobie's
current patent for reverse (which is not expired)...
Currently their top dog fishing kayak has a MSRP of $850 so $1000 would be a unrealistic guess on pricing I would think. If I was going to guess I'd think around the $1500 price point might be doable for them.
Darren. reply :
Some more details:
http://www.yakoutlaws.com/pelican-kayaks-new-kayaks-icast-2018/
QuoteThe Catch 130HD measures 12 feet- 6 inches in length and 34 inches wide. It features the new HyDryve™ pedal propulsion system that’s adjustable, easy to install, and easy to operate. The Catch 130HD weighs approximately 85lbs and has a 425lb max capacity.
kenmitch reply :
QuoteThe Catch 130HD will be available to consumers beginning in 2019.
Darren. reply :
Unconfirmed, but some hearing it will be priced around $1500.
Putting in range of Perception Pescador Pilot.
kenmitch reply :
On 7/10/2018 at 9:49 PM, Darren. said:Unconfirmed, but some hearing it will be priced around $1500.
Putting in range of Perception Pescador Pilot.
That's the kayak I was thinking the price point would target also. Not really sure why they targeted a mirage drive clone on their first dabble with a propelled kayak. Maybe it's the Hobie is like the Apple of kayak mentality at play. The lack of instant forward to reverse and back is the major drawback to the mirage drive type system for me at least. I guess it would be interesting if they somehow one upped Hobie and devised a work around to enable it.
Darren. reply :
On 7/8/2018 at 9:50 PM, Darren. said:No reverse unless they figure a way that doesn't infringe on Hobie's
current patent for reverse (which is not expired)...
On 7/10/2018 at 11:38 PM, kenmitch said:The lack of instant forward to reverse is the major drawback to the mirage drive type system for me at least. I guess it would be interesting if they somehow one upped Hobie and devised a work around to enable it.
That's my thought, too. I'm sure there's a way around it, but exactly
how many patents for reverse does Hobie own? My guess is they have
a few patents on the matter.
kenmitch reply :
On 7/10/2018 at 11:43 PM, Darren. said:
That's my thought, too. I'm sure there's a way around it, but exactly
how many patents for reverse does Hobie own? My guess is they have
a few patents on the matter.
Hobie can't patent reverse. Only the way it's implemented can be patented....Unless they did one of those vague Apple style patents. Paddle driven drive system with the ability to go forward and reverse.
Easiest and fastest way would be to allow the peddle assembly to do a 180. What it would take to do that while being secure/stable when under way would be the biggest obstacle to overcome. Probably doable with the right design.
Another way which would take more design work would be something like a double pump of pedals to allow the lower units rotation. This would be the best option but would take some engineering skills to pull off. Might suffer from longevity issues if not done correctly. I'd imagine it's out of Pelicans league and more like a future Hobie version of the mirage drive.
Darren. reply :
On 7/10/2018 at 11:55 PM, kenmitch said:Hobie can't patent reverse. Only the way it's implemented can be patented....Unless they did one of those vague Apple style patents. Paddle driven drive system with the ability to go forward and reverse.
Well, of course that's the case. I assumed everyone would understand in the context of the discussion I wasn't referring to the act of "going in reverse" 
....
kenmitch reply :
On 7/11/2018 at 12:01 AM, Darren. said:Well, of course that's the case. I assumed everyone would understand in the context of the discussion I wasn't referring to the act of "going in reverse"
....
I couldn't resist throwing some Hobie/Apple pun around....That's all.
You do have to remember the US patent system is somewhat broken and does grant some pretty silly patents at times. It's just a matter of who has the $'s to fight and get them invalidated and if the reward is worth the risk. I'd imagine when it come to fishing kayak the $'s required wouldn't be worth the risk.
J Francho reply :
Hobie has the Mirage Drive 180; see video below. It is indeed patented. This looks to be a carbon copy of the original Mirage Drive that is on my Hobie Compass. So much for "We are world leaders in the design and manufacture of kayaks, canoes, pedal boats and fishing boats." I wonder how their drive system will hold up. They're not known for making super durable boats. At any rate, I wish them luck with their release. At $1500, it's awfully close to the price point of the Compass.
I haven't found the lack of reverse a problem, but I'm not often fishing close to shorelines. I have experimented with reversing the drive system and it works for times you're getting blow into shore. You don't even need to sit down, just grab one of the pedals and give a couple of flicks, whether forward or reversed.
One of the other advantages is the the low profile the drive system has when pedals are angled away from each other. Here is a pic of my Compass, beached, drive system still intact. Next, a video featuring myself.
Fishingmickey reply :
JFrancho,
How are you liking the Compass? I have been wanting to demo one but it is always rented. I'm thinking about a back up boat for my PA14 and is car top-able. I suspect it is probably faster and more maneuverable then the PA14.
Love to hear your thoughts on the Compass so far.
Fishingmickey
Darren. reply :
As for Pelican durability, actually, the model I started with, is
still going strong, bought it in what, 04, 05 or 6? My 4 sons have
beat the crap out of it (so-to-speak) in fresh and salt, dragging
to and from docks, etc. Actually, I've instilled in them to take
care of the gear so it'll last. Point being, it's been used hard and
often and is leak/crack free up to now.
From the looks of the drive area in this new one, it appears to
be reinforced with a separate molded housing. But yeah, time
will tell its durability. I know some Hobies have had issue in
the Mirage Drive area with cracking...but they seem to be on
that and taking care of issues reported.
As Hobie's patents expire, others will join the fray if it's easier
to wait and let Hobie front the engineering builds/expenditure.
I imagine Hobie has several patents on 180 varieties, though I
have not done the searching in the patent dbs on the matter.
J Francho reply :
Watch the video. I love it. Recently installed an anchor trolley, and the Marine Mat. Very maneuverable, light weight, sleek, stable hull, simple, wide, comfortable seat. My only complaint is that I'd want another 8" hatch standard up front. It can be added easily, though.
On 7/11/2018 at 12:56 AM, Darren. said:I know some Hobies have had issue in
the Mirage Drive area with cracking...but they seem to be on
that and taking care of issues reported.
I don't see this as an issue to look out for in any current models. The Drive are is VERY beefy on the Compass.
Darren. reply :
On 7/11/2018 at 12:58 AM, J Francho said:Watch the video. I love it. Recently installed an anchor trolley, and the Marine Mat. Very maneuverable, light weight, sleek, stable hull, simple, wide, comfortable seat. My only complaint is that I'd want another 8" hatch standard up front. It can be added easily, though.
Definitely a sweet ride. Earlier this year I was eye shopping and watching
vids on this boat. Stable, fun, quick, "light" on the water. All good things.
Compelling ride.
Darren. reply :
Scroll down a very short ways, ~8hrs ago he went live from ICAST
in the new Pelican, and in video and comments confirms MSRP of $1499...
https://www.facebook.com/lovekayak.fishing/?hc_ref=ARRdy1bzTwgt9HC27y3wLYgjpk5_c6ia9DPMc4Z4vClxq7otjJC5pdLWjxUY4ffu72I
Darren. reply :
Here's another video:
Available at Dick's?
Darren. reply :
kenmitch reply :
Watching the videos it seems like it might be a decent kayak for somebody who's going from a standard kayak to a propelled kayak and can live without reverse. It would be a step up and would save at least the forward paddling in the end.
I never kayak fished in my life till I bought my Slayer 10 Propel so maybe it's the reason why I feel the need for instant reverse in the end. I've hooked more than one feisty fish that pulls my kayak around while zigzagging to the left and right while diving under my kayak and just can't grasp what it's like without it.
How do the non propelled kayaks deal with the wind and current pushing you towards structure? You just avoid those spots? Hope you don't hook that fish of a lifetime?
Darren. reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 12:04 AM, kenmitch said:Watching the videos it seems like it might be a decent kayak for somebody who's going from a standard kayak to a propelled kayak and can live without reverse. It would be a step up and would save at least the forward paddling in the end.
I never kayak fished in my life till I bought my Slayer 10 Propel so maybe it's the reason why I feel the need for instant reverse in the end. I've hooked more than one feisty fish that pulls my kayak around while zigzagging to the left and right while diving under my kayak and just can't grasp what it's like without it.
How do the non propelled kayaks deal with the wind and current pushing you towards structure? You just avoid those spots? Hope you don't hook that fish of a lifetime?
Have to agree, reverse is a big deal for me, too. My Ultimate
is set up with a trolling motor (BassYaks style), steered via
foot pedals (awesome stuff). Countless times I've had to use
reverse when I've caught a fish and needed to back up due to
wind blowing me into structure...
J Francho reply :
On 7/12/2018 at 12:04 AM, kenmitch said:
How do the non propelled kayaks deal with the wind and current pushing you towards structure? You just avoid those spots? Hope you don't hook that fish of a lifetime?
Anchor
Darren. reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 9:11 AM, J Francho said:Anchor
Well...there's that! 
kenmitch reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 9:11 AM, J Francho said:Anchor
On 7/13/2018 at 9:34 AM, Darren. said:Well...there's that!
They just deploy the anchor in the heat of the battle....That would really suck.
J Francho reply :
It's taught me to thoroughly dissect a spot, much in the vain of Bill Murphy. It's not as difficult, or time consuming as you'd think. And, I'm often surprised by how many fish are in a spot. I've been experimenting with reversing the Mirage drive, as well. Basically, paddling in, giving them a flick when needed. It's not 100% easy, and you do need one hand free to do it, but it takes seconds. The 180 system is easier (I've used it), but Hobie kept the price target at $2000, and 180 would have meant making a sacrifice somewhere else (probably the seat, which is great).
Darren. reply :
On 7/13/2018 at 8:28 PM, J Francho said:It's taught me to thoroughly dissect a spot, much in the vain of Bill Murphy. It's not as difficult, or time consuming as you'd think. And, I'm often surprised by how many fish are in a spot. I've been experimenting with reversing the Mirage drive, as well. Basically, paddling in, giving them a flick when needed. It's not 100% easy, and you do need one hand free to do it, but it takes seconds. The 180 system is easier (I've used it), but Hobie kept the price target at $2000, and 180 would have meant making a sacrifice somewhere else (probably the seat, which is great).
It's good to know the "testing" you're doing. In terms of using anchors,
I've done that so much, and much prefer using my TM and anchor stick.
Obviously, we make do with what we have. I'm know I'd make due if I had
the Compass or Pelican with only FW drive. When spoiled with a TM, it is
a little hard to consider going "backwards", so-to-speak .
When I'm again in the market for a new yak, the Compass and Pelican
will likely be on my radar. Until then, I've gotta make due with what I've
got or my wife will give me a permanent bed in the dog crate in the
utility room!! LOL.
Darren. reply :
Riot Kayaks @ ICAST - pedal kayak at $999
AND!! Will fit Hobie drives?!
Darren. reply :
I changed the Topic title to reflect thread better since adding more pedal-driven yaks.
FeelFree Dorado.
Old Town Topwater Series PDL Kayak | ICAST 2018 $1999
4 yr warranty on the drive, lifetime on the hull. Looks really nice.
Darren. reply :
NuCanoe Flint
Chad Hoover's walkthru.
Jackson Kayak Big Rig FDHD
Glenn reply :
On 7/6/2018 at 10:30 AM, Darren. said:Mirage Drive patent expired, I guess.
Actually, the old, original design patent expired because Hobie has greatly improved the design to the point it's obsolete. In fact, they had to get a new patent on the better version because it changed so much.
kenmitch reply :
The Riot Mako price point looks good. Been trying to get my brother out on the water with me. Maybe it'll entice him.
The new St Croix Mojo Yak series rods kind of caught my eye as I already have a Yak.
sc1978 reply :
I have been watching the icast vids on these new pedal drive yaks. I think I would buy the pelican catch 130 hd since its using the orginal hobie drive. you can definetely do up grade drive which is 100% compatible. Next would be the mako which "so they say" that their drive well can fit any pedal drive, also since it is $999, thats a pretty good deal.
BTW...I love my compass ????
J Francho reply :
Dude, rectangle hatch?
NYWayfarer reply :
I was actually disappointed at the Pelican's pricing of their pedal drive. $1499 seems a bit much as the paddle version of the catch 120 is around $750, half the price. The pedal drive costs as much as the kayak?
YoTone reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 8:51 PM, NYWayfarer said:I was actually disappointed at the Pelican's pricing of their pedal drive. $1499 seems a bit much as the paddle version of the catch 120 is around $750, half the price. The pedal drive costs as much as the kayak?
Yes
sc1978 reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 8:28 PM, J Francho said:Dude, rectangle hatch?
yes....is that good or bad?
J Francho reply :
Just that mine is round. I really dig the bigger hatch you have, though. Maybe they made a change while in production:
sc1978 reply :
actually no, I bought PA hatch kit when i bought my compass. I moved the circle hatch to the front where there is a mold you can cut out.
https://youtu.be/4Ti-Jpy734I
J Francho reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 10:50 PM, sc1978 said:actually no, I bought PA hatch kit when i bought my compass. I moved the circle hatch to the front where there is a mold you can cut out.
https://youtu.be/4Ti-Jpy734I
Perfect mod!
On 7/17/2018 at 8:51 PM, NYWayfarer said:I was actually disappointed at the Pelican's pricing of their pedal drive. $1499 seems a bit much as the paddle version of the catch 120 is around $750, half the price. The pedal drive costs as much as the kayak?
If you buy the Mirage separately, I think it's around $850. I don't have the pricing in front of me, but it's in that neighborhood.
Darren. reply :
On 7/17/2018 at 11:10 PM, J Francho said:If you buy the Mirage separately, I think it's around $850. I don't have the pricing in front of me, but it's in that neighborhood.
Mirage sans reverse starts around ~$620 on up to ~$840 for the 180,
at least that's what Austin Kayak lists...
archman reply :
Are there any Riot Kayak dealers in the states? It seems like they are all in Canada or Europe. Have they said when this $999 will be available for sale?
Darren. reply :
On 7/21/2018 at 12:28 PM, archman said:Are there any Riot Kayak dealers in the states? It seems like they are all in Canada or Europe. Have they said when this $999 will be available for sale?
Several carry the brand according to their distribution.
Some probably don't have the new stuff listed yet.
http://paddlekd.com/directories/
archman reply :
That still says Montreal is the closest.
Darren. reply :
On 7/22/2018 at 11:36 AM, archman said:That still says Montreal is the closest.
Closest to what? GetOutdoors down in NC is closest to me, and
they are listed as a Riot dealer though their (GO's) website doesn't
yet indicate it. Likely means they are a dealer on paper until they
buy stock.
You can buy them on Amazon, but that doesn't help with getting
a feel for the yak first. Plus the 10' is just over $1k there, likely
due to Amazon's Prime "free" shipping costing $150. Edit: or
it could be in Canadian dollars?
Montreal is also home of Riot, where they're made. You'll get better
info on their Facebook page, they'll even answer your queries.
https://www.facebook.com/riotkayak/
Edited by Darren.
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